Guild Wars 2

ill be running 0/30/20/20/0
full dire armor with perplex
s/d ( geo/bursting) + staff (geo/torment)

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Tim.6450:

Spiuk.8421:

Anyone with half a clue can see why conditions are completely broken.

It’s basic math, really.

please show me this basic math.

sorry this is a lazy comparison but I thought I would try to show an example of a condition burst.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flurry
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impale_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposte
with 8 stack of might from FGJ and SoR, as well as Banner of strength (170 condi power) and sigil of corruption (250 condition)

2127 condition damage total
bleed
(0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80
((0.05 * 2127) + 42.5)*12=1786.2

torment
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80
(0.075 * Condition Damage) + 63.75 per stack per second at level 80 while moving
((0.075 * 2127) + 63.75)*5=1116.38

(1789.2+1116.38) * 4 (over 4 seconds)= 11622.3 still not the best burst but eh.

Really lazy bad build for reference: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|c.0.0.c.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.0.0.0.0.0.0|2x.0.2x.0.2w.0.2x.0.21n.0.2w.0|u267.u389.0.0.0|0.0|0.69.62.0.6m|e

conditions are not broken.
warrior conditions builds are

+% duration food is only going to add possible damage, not guaranteed damage.
if the food made the extra % not be able to be cleansed then I would request a nerf.

bigmonto.4215:

Brando.1374:

bigmonto.4215:

Well conditional damage never changed, also no other healing skills gets nerfed.

Oh… let me guess you are a Theft, you don’t care about healing, just turn invisible and run away. How about they should nerf the ability to turn invisible base on crit damage nerf.

a warrior can be immune to damage, then they rush away to let their passive healing kick in on their already high armor/hp.

So what, same difference… you turn invisible, I turn invulnerable, we both run away to reset the fights. How about let call it even and try not to ask nerf for anyone.

but a thief is not immune to damage in stealth while a warrior can be immune while running away.

bigmonto.4215:

Well conditional damage never changed, also no other healing skills gets nerfed.

Oh… let me guess you are a Theft, you don’t care about healing, just turn invisible and run away. How about they should nerf the ability to turn invisible base on crit damage nerf.

a warrior can be immune to damage, then they rush away to let their passive healing kick in on their already high armor/hp.

if they remove +40% duration they will need to remove all -% duration food/runes or make the +/- % duration specific for 1-2 conditions.

Overkillengine.6084:

Brando.1374:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Overkillengine.6084:

By that logic +1000% food is balanced as long as we can run a -1000% food too.

Which is rather silly.

This is correct.

If you’re going to analyze a food, what you should actually do is look at how it effects the game if it’s counterpart is NOT used.

100 Power/10% crit dmg? Strong, but not overly so.
15% Chill/70 Condi dmg? Good if you have a lot of chill.
40% Condi Duration/70 Condi dmg? Game-changing.

Someone explain why you can get 40% duration to all condis with food, but if you specialize in a condition, it only gives 15% duration. I’ll wait.

you are not guaranteed that the extra 40% duration will last its full duration. while on the other hand with 100 power/10%crit damage you get those stats and damage as soon as you apply the food and hit anything.

that is what the difference is might now seam like a huge difference but guaranteed damage is much better than possible damage in my opinion.

You are not guaranteed to hit for the full damage (weakness/protection) or at all (blind; aegis; evades; invuln) with power attacks either. Some of those even work
versus condition bearing attacks.

So not really a relevant argument for the status quo of the duration foods. Because by that logic +/- 40% power damage food would be perfectly fine.

I believe that is incorrect.
Condition duration has a 100% cap and a 25 stack limit. power is unlimited and uncapped.
also blind, aegis, evades, invuln also affect condition application.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Overkillengine.6084:

By that logic +1000% food is balanced as long as we can run a -1000% food too.

Which is rather silly.

This is correct.

If you’re going to analyze a food, what you should actually do is look at how it effects the game if it’s counterpart is NOT used.

100 Power/10% crit dmg? Strong, but not overly so.
15% Chill/70 Condi dmg? Good if you have a lot of chill.
40% Condi Duration/70 Condi dmg? Game-changing.

Someone explain why you can get 40% duration to all condis with food, but if you specialize in a condition, it only gives 15% duration. I’ll wait.

you are not guaranteed that the extra 40% duration will last its full duration. while on the other hand with 100 power/10%crit damage you get those stats and damage as soon as you apply the food and hit anything.

that is what the difference is might now seam like a huge difference but guaranteed damage is much better than possible damage in my opinion.

+40% is not overpowered.

at most it will add maybe 4s to some bleeds.

Wethospu.6437:

Brando.1374:

Wethospu.6437:

3595 attack

And there goes any credibility you had…

how so?

Nice, after my immature post didn’t expect a mature reply.

Attack is a fake stat which isn’t actually used in damage calculation. Attack is power + weapon strength but damage calculations use power * weapon strength.

So referring to attack stat kind of implies you don’t really know how damage actually works so it’s bit hard to take you seriously.

ok, thanks for that. Ill keep that in mind from now on.

well adding 1-3s on a condition is soo overpowered.

I think most of the wvw players who love to fight have been asking for this since launch but I doubt it will ever happen.

Kyon.9735:

I think we shouldn’t be comparing the Damage between Power and Condi because the result is obvious. What should be discussed here is how easy it is to play Condi builds compared to Power builds. What should be compared is the risk/reward between the two builds.

Of course, I think we should be in a mutual agreement that HamBow shouldn’t be put into discussion because it is a fact that it is a broken build.

wvw = PU mesmer/ d/p thief / any warr build that can run away
those are just some power builds which are easy to play.

Wethospu.6437:

Brando.1374:

any class with 0 condition damage:
Bleed = 43
burn = 328
confusion = 65
poison = 80

any class with 2000 condition damage
bleed = 143
burn = 828
confusion = 210
poison = 280

Now lets take hammer skills from a warrior.
only hammer no rune/armor/ammulets spvp stats
aa = 333/333/444
H2 = 518
H3 = 259
H4 = 370
H5 = 554
F1 = 370

now lets add full ascended gear
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQFACGQQP0wqYLOKAQlQpwOqDA-zUBBofApmFRjtMqIasKbYqXER1kCgJlRA-w
3595 attack

aa = 927/927/1,235
H2 = 1,441
H3 = 720
H4 = 1,030
H5 = 1,543
F1 = 1,030

Wow looks like power scales way better than conditions.
oh and that passive 407 regen every second is just great

---

3595 attack

And there goes any credibility you had…

how so?

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

yeah perma aoe burning 3xx dmg with 0 condi dmg is so bad its not even worth to be considered, thats why u compare them to single bleed stacks or poison . wow impressive. since when does blind and cripple do dmg or shut a condition range spammer down?

conditions without condition damage hit like wet noodles.
Blind will not shut down anyone at range, but s/tpvp is all about being on point so range isnt ideal besides your roaming glass cannon should be able to disrupt/stomp the condition spammer.

lol sure. maybe u should change to eu to actually learn something about that game if u really think that.

pay for the gems and ill move over

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

yeah perma aoe burning 3xx dmg with 0 condi dmg is so bad its not even worth to be considered, thats why u compare them to single bleed stacks or poison . wow impressive. since when does blind and cripple do dmg or shut a condition range spammer down?

conditions without condition damage hit like wet noodles.
Blind will not shut down anyone at range, but s/tpvp is all about being on point so range isnt ideal besides your roaming glass cannon should be able to disrupt/stomp the condition spammer.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Brando.1374:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Looking up the But of Corpse (all necro guild) on the leaderboards, I see that Brando.1374 is in the 90th percentile for TPvP. Brando and oZii are in the same guild.

So he knows exactly what he is talking about, as they are competing at the top 10% in team arenas. You, however, clearly do not.

I dont really spvp/tpvp. I play wvw which is where GF was created.

Strange that the leaderboards have you ranked so high in tPvP, then.
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/pvp/guild/But%20Of%20Corpse

guess your right then. I almost never check where I am on the leader boards.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Hey you brought up spvp I can get spvp information from my guildies who are at the top of solo and team queue. They will tell you there is no condi meta among the top teams. Nobody is rolling more then 50% of their team as conditions.

1-2 warriors, must have a guardian, must have thief. Not many spots left so where is all this condi you speak of? Many teams have opted to go engi over necro.

as i said before. learn to count. 1 bunker, either 2 warrior ( combustive shot as aoe burning ) or 1 warrior 1 ranger what bring this teamcomp even more into condi, 1 thief and 1 condi class. hambow fits in both parts. so u have only 1 real raw-dmg build ( thief). on the same time, its funny u are in the same guild/ team and both teamcomposition are different. as soon cleansing ire gets a shave you will drop warrior and condis gets an higher amount of dmg-part.

a lot of classes can dish out conditions, even with 0 condition damage.
warriors yes have burning… wow extra 3xx damage
thief have access to poison/cripple/weakness/blind
guard has a ton of access to burning

does that make up a condi heavy group? lol nope that is just the class mechanics and the game mechanics.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

uhh not sure you know this but my mind tells me u have none or you would stop posting the same stuff over and over.

Looking up the But of Corpse (all necro guild) on the leaderboards, I see that Brando.1374 is in the 90th percentile for TPvP. Brando and oZii are in the same guild.

So he knows exactly what he is talking about, as they are competing at the top 10% in team arenas. You, however, clearly do not.

I dont really spvp/tpvp. I play wvw which is where GF was created.

Virtute.8251:

Brando.1374:

we have to apply conditions rapidly because of how weak single stacks of bleeds/confusion/torment is.

Yes, and we can (for the power-build kids that don’t get it).

Brando.1374:

even with 20k condi damage 1 stack of bleed is only 143 and confusion is only 210.

Edit that for 2k, not 20k.

Brando.1374:

we need to be able to stack damage to kill and then survive long enough for the stacks to do damage.

Yes, although this misses a key point, and it’s the one I’ve withheld all day: condition builds for group play are strongest amongst an allied group of power and condi-clear builds. Lemongrass soup pots aren’t expensive because necro zergs are chasing hammer-kids, and only a portion (perhaps the majority portion) can rightly be blamed on HAMMERMETABRO hype.

They’re truly expensive because the majority of weapons and field combos in the game will apply at least 1 stack of some condition… and condition built players are adding to that with real damage.

Enjoy.

I feel you are mistaking conditions that damage with conditions that hinder your character.

chill needs to be cleared asap
weakness needs to be cleared asap
blind needs to be cleared asap or just aa near a random target.
vul should be cleared asap because you dont want to take more damage.

the rest need to stack up to do any significant damage.

burning gets overridden quite often so the main condi damage class might not be able to get the full damage off.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

hooma.9642:

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

Uhh not sure you know this but my guild has the top tPvP in NA and has for a while. They only run 1-2 condition classes usually engi (Five Guage) Ranger (Genyen).

oh and 3 burst classes? i doubt it. if u think clearly about your composition u will see that the dmg-part is more on condiside. and dont come and tell me you having hambow and this is a pure raw-dmg dealer.

1 burst and 2 bunker/ sustain dps.

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

I am just giving random examples haha, but this is essentially what it feels like when fighting a full condi class as everything that deals damage stacks.

well can you imagine how long a single stack of a condition will take to kill you.

Yes true and I don’t want to rebalance conditions this way, but they should be looked at. As they can kill about as fast as zerker, while having much more survival and utility in most cases. The only drawback are the countering anti-condition classes and Lyssa runes that will get nerfed anyway.

I am not a dev so can’t suggest any improvements but the current state is obviously not good if this thread exists in the first place with so many pages.

in wvw the counter will be meladru and -40% condi duration.
I have already face classes like this and I dont have a very good record with them compared to those who use other runes/food.

hooma.9642:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

hooma.9642:

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

Wait, so you’re saying that in the one video, he got gasp out-played? And he lost pretty badly, even? Oh my gosh, who would have thought that you could beat someone by out-playing them?

And in the second and third videos, he also managed to out-play his opponents (pretty kitten the third one, even). He shouldn’t have been able to win those!

i dont call it outplayed bursting all the stuff in a blocking enemy or a warrior using zerkerstance. its more bad play on necroside.

so your telling me that if I just ran around his zerkerstance I would have won?
lol. I was countered, Plain and simple. did I get mad or make a rage thread about condition counters.. nope.

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

…
2) Conditions apply way to fast is like direct damage. You need to use your cleanse smartly not just spam it when you have cripple on you because you don’t like cripple(this happens alot). You don’t heal after you get auto attacked 1 time same thing applies to conditions. Also conditions can be healed through besides cleansed passive healing, regen, and any of your heal skills also help against conditions in addition to your cleanses.
..

haha lol sure. have fun with your melee dps weapon sticking to a ranged condi class appling dmg-condis + soft cc + weakness or any other counter. warrior is the only melee condi-exception. so cripple hurts what build more? or chill? or weakness? does condi-build needs to sacrifies utilities to be able to constantly apply pressure like raw dps?

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

this warrior does not look like he has issues with my condi pressure
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

while these 2 other ones have tons of issues
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859710
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

I used the same build for each of these clips. only 1 out of the many warriors I have faced does not have a L2P issue.

well it was all warriors.

1 video u bursted your condis in his shield stance or zerkerstance. and he was using anti condi-duration food and cleansing ire.

2 video was not using cleansing ire

3 video the poor guy eat all your fears and did the error not switching to longbow to cleanse

honestly u cant justify your broken application of conditions with a atm op build/trait and call that l2p. esp the 3 video shows you how broken conditions are. so damage OVER TIME should kill clearly so fast?

3. a warrior/mes/thief can burst in 5s with at most 4-5 skills
I used 7+ skills and it took about 15s.

2. not my fault for him not building to face a condi class.
1. he used everything he had to counter a condi class and I dont think I was even close to beating him. ( i have unblockable marks so they dont get blocked by his shield)

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

I am just giving random examples haha, but this is essentially what it feels like when fighting a full condi class as everything that deals damage stacks.

well can you imagine how long a single stack of a condition will take to kill you.

melodey.4652:

The solution I’d like to see is applying a short cooldown for condition application. If you cleanse 10 stacks of bleed, you shouldn’t have another 10 stacks be immediately applied to you. Then all 4 of the necros still running conditions in dungeons won’t have anything to complain about, as the NPCs typically don’t cleanse themselves.

As to the people boasting about their uber leet zerg not having trouble with conditions, it’s a chicken and egg problem. Run around WvW in a group of 15 with no condition removal, melandru runes, soup, or anything and see how fun that is for you. Everyone in WvW has to overcompensate for cleanse, because the ratio of condition application to condition cleanse is skewed too heavily towards rapid application.

we have to apply conditions rapidly because of how weak single stacks of bleeds/confusion/torment is.
even with 2k condi damage 1 stack of bleed is only 143 and confusion is only 210.

we need to be able to stack damage to kill and then survive long enough for the stacks to do damage.

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

Not only, I am referring to abilities that convert boons into conditions and transfer conditions etc.

Overall it feels like all boon based classes are kinda kitten as there are less boons than conditions and the overall effect is not as big. Imagine what it would be like if Protection was stacking to 5 and each granted 10% resistance. Or if Regeneration stacked in strength and not time and there were 3 different versions of it, one which got stronger if you were moving.

protection would be op vs physical damage but lulz for condi classes
Regen if stack-able would be broken
swiftness would be ok to be getting stronger as you move. starts off at 25% and 1% per stack would be ok with me.

hooma.9642:

oZii.2864:

…
2) Conditions apply way to fast is like direct damage. You need to use your cleanse smartly not just spam it when you have cripple on you because you don’t like cripple(this happens alot). You don’t heal after you get auto attacked 1 time same thing applies to conditions. Also conditions can be healed through besides cleansed passive healing, regen, and any of your heal skills also help against conditions in addition to your cleanses.
..

haha lol sure. have fun with your melee dps weapon sticking to a ranged condi class appling dmg-condis + soft cc + weakness or any other counter. warrior is the only melee condi-exception. so cripple hurts what build more? or chill? or weakness? does condi-build needs to sacrifies utilities to be able to constantly apply pressure like raw dps?

funny how any one can argue for conditions, when just 1 normal spvp game can prove the opposite. funny how a condi-burst build can easily kill a bunker and dps class as soon the cleanses are on cooldown or some cc prevents them from using it.

this warrior does not look like he has issues with my condi pressure
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/4031535

while these 2 other ones have tons of issues
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859710
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

I used the same build for each of these clips. only 1 out of the many warriors I have faced does not have a L2P issue.

Swim.6830:

Brando.1374:

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

True but my warrior can’t use all 5 abilities all at once, while a necro can put on me almost every single condition, I can cleanse them and they can put all those conditions on me again…

if you are referring to Sig of spite, that only applies 2 damage conditions Bleed and poison. the others do no damage and will not kill you.

I would much rather have a group cast S0S on my 5 times instead of 5 warriors using earthshaker on me.

this is the highest I was able to get it without stacks
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vYAQNAoYVlsMpwplOx7J8PNhs9YnqQei7hTZUNVXBsC-z0BBYfCikFgEBBKzsIaslVFRjVXDT5iIqOAACwOrz6cnBWv6Vv6Vv6Zn7cn7cn7sUAjKMC-w

89%

-% condi duration is used so you can spec more into doing damage instead of actively trying to mitigate conditions on you.

Conditions are already on a hard cap of 25 stack limit.
there is no such thing for power attacks.

you can have 100 condi necro’s stack all their bleeds on you but guess what you will only take 25 stacks no matter what.
on the opposite side if 100 hammer warriors just AA, that target will take all that damage.

Learn how to mitigate conditions just like you learned how to mitigate burst power damage.

any class with 0 condition damage:
Bleed = 43
burn = 328
confusion = 65
poison = 80

any class with 2000 condition damage
bleed = 143
burn = 828
confusion = 210
poison = 280

Now lets take hammer skills from a warrior.
only hammer no rune/armor/ammulets spvp stats
aa = 333/333/444
H2 = 518
H3 = 259
H4 = 370
H5 = 554
F1 = 370

now lets add full ascended gear
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQFACGQQP0wqYLOKAQlQpwOqDA-zUBBofApmFRjtMqIasKbYqXER1kCgJlRA-w
3595 attack

aa = 927/927/1,235
H2 = 1,441
H3 = 720
H4 = 1,030
H5 = 1,543
F1 = 1,030

Wow looks like power scales way better than conditions.
oh and that passive 407 regen every second is just great

oZii.2864:

jportell.2197:

Brando.1374:

jportell.2197:

Brando.1374:

if you run any 30/x/x/x/x dumbfire build you are cheese.
if you also run sig of spite you are cheese with extra cheese on top.

Thank god I run 30/x/x/x/x close to death power build. Screw dumbfire and screw the cheese.

we need more necro’s like you around here

It makes me sad though because everytime I win a fight in tPvP I get told necros/conditions are OP even tho I have 1 damaging condition which is a random bleed proc… el oh el. XD

Which goes to show how ignorant many people are a lot of people assume every necro is condi mainstat. I’ve even done it a few times but it doesn’t bother me if I guess wrong.

@OP

Run whatever you want my guildie Brando doesn’t like Dhuumfire that doesn’t stop me from running dhuumfire I don’t main necro but I’m not bad at it either just because I run dhuumfire.

I run what I like every forum has a subset that tries to distance themselves from the ones with the community bullseye in the end that wins you nothing. Being a special snowflakes is a thing so is running a cookie cutter. No right or wrong in either.

Run what you find fun respect their opinion but you don’t have to let them “muscle” you into running something else.

Dont listen to Sin, he is a bad necro

jk. I just really dont like that trait since it made the class I fell in love with just so easy to play it made it all necro’s look bad.

naphack.9346:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Eh, I think most people say condis are cheesy because they can’t be bothered to bring appropriate condi cleanse. “But I need utilities X, Y, and Z”. Well, then you eat condition damage. “But I need traits A and B, otherwise I lose out on damage.” Well, then you eat condition damage.

I don’t feel bad for these people. Before Cleansing Ire and the new Zerker Stance, I used to run my Warrior with Runes of Lyssa and Signet of Stamina both specifically to manage condis. Runes of Lyssa boons were ok, but I saved it so I could use it to clear condis. I sacrificed other utilities like Endure Pain or Bull’s Charge (depending) in order to bring Signet of Stam. I didn’t complain.

I’d say your condi build is more “easy”, less “cheesy”. However, it’s less easy if you fight someone who can deal with condis, but often the condition pressure allows a Condi Necro to keep up pressure against mobile/target breaking opponents whereas a Power Necro can have trouble in that regard. That’s the only reason I’m calling it “easy”.

At the end of the day, play what you have fun with, regardless of complainers.

@Shaogin: Two health bars, GG imba Necro survivability.

What cr should my friggin thief bring?
The only active condi cleanse, I got is signet of agility, which removes 1 condition.
Another one is in the shadow arts line. I don’t like the lame playstyle of hiding over and over again, till I win the fight because my opponent got bored to death. I wanna stand straight in the enemy’s face and beat him down quickly, so shadow arts is kinda ruled out.

Oh, and there is Hide in Shadows… Guess, I gotta put that 30 sec cd heal on my hotbar and die every time I get immobilized or crippled, because I got no withdraw on my bar.
Well, my thief still got an easy solution. If I got the initiative, I can just kill the condition user faster, if I am running away, I will use my shortbow 5 to create some distance or die trying(mostly the latter), but this is perfectly fine. I never built my thief to survive by shrugging off attacks anyway. It’s about keeping the distance and striking when ready.

Actually, conditions are not THAT op. What’s op is the +40% duration food.

Let’s compare it to other values.
Cond food gives +40% duration as the primary attribute. Other food got +100 of an attribute as the primary attribute.
So we could deduce here, that 40% duration equal 100 attribute points…
…Until we remember trait lines, where those 40% duration would equal 400 attribute points.
So we got a food here, which provides the equivalent to 400 attribute points as primary stat?
There is food, which provides +200 of an attribute… For 30 seconds after a kill.
This thing right here, however, is simply insane.
Speaking of other food, there is other food, increasing the duration of conditions. This time specialized in increasing the duration of only a single condition by 15%.
Fifteen. Obviously, increasing the duration of burning is way stronger than merely increasing the duration of all conditions, so the 40% on the much weaker all condition food is justified.

Once you look at these numbers, however, everything fits right into place if you replaced the “40” with a “10”.
The cond duration will have the same conversion ratio as the cond duration in the trait lines and you will have the choice between increasing the duration of a single condition by 15% or of all conditions by 10%.
If you are still not convinced, take a look at runes.
All condition runes: 10%
Single condition runes: 15%.

your a thief….. you hit hard and run/stealth. the thief class was never made to “stand straight in the enemy’s face and beat him down quickly” you need to stand behind him while stealth to beat him down with some suprise bu…..backstab

a skill as in a weapon skill/utility or a trait?

Solori.6025:

Thank you good sir

here is a full soldiers necro set. (-65% condi duration)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNAnYWjc00SbNNO2whbiA6x7rlziZcshRfocA-z0BBofCikFRkIAI1sIaslRFRjVZDT9iIqOAACA7cn7cn7cnlCgJhRA-w

jportell.2197:

Brando.1374:

if you run any 30/x/x/x/x dumbfire build you are cheese.
if you also run sig of spite you are cheese with extra cheese on top.

Thank god I run 30/x/x/x/x close to death power build. Screw dumbfire and screw the cheese.

we need more necro’s like you around here

if you run any 30/x/x/x/x dumbfire build you are cheese.
if you also run sig of spite you are cheese with extra cheese on top.

Solori.6025:

I need Builds

So that I can get some idea of an accurate comparison. I’m looking for build’s that are viable, and that work.

Not some mystical unicorn that has access to 12 sigil’s and 7k toughness.

Anyone willing to post either a soldier’s build or a dire build that works?

Using this calculator or something similair that show’s weapon damage tooltips?
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

this is the Meta scrub dumbfire/SoS build that most Terrible necro’s use (full dire)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNArYWjc0UebjN+2webCB6RvgLgYkijJYoUUOpDA-z0BB4iCik0gkHBKTtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpEjUAQMNC-w

here is my build which I have used since about February of last year. (no dumbfire needed)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNArYWjc0UebtNG3webCQSx1PPpI7vjeccwKD-zUCB4igoOBikGk8IQZSFRjtGsIasKZC1qbY6YJKAwBABdLFAETjA-w

Ill even add some highlights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3643756 me vs Meta scrub build
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3643782 me vs Meta scrub build part 2 (no plauge sig for me)
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859700 me vs best condi warr I have faced
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3593925 me vs guard (no food ftw!)

and last but not least the ROFLSTOMP
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319 me vs warr (he asked for it )

roamzero.9486:

Condition damage
Power
Toughness

This ^^

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNArYWjc0Ueb3NG3wfbCQSx1PPpI7vjeU8xBD-zECB4igoOBikGk8IQZSFRjtGsIasKZER1KlYkCAipRA-w

My build is focused on aoe condi damage and lots of it
I dont focus on more than 40% duration because in wvw with all the removal available there is no point in wasting stats.
this is what I run when roaming around or with my guild. (PS. Dumbfire is Bad and you should feel bad if you use it)

for duels I still use 0/30/20/20/0 I just change out a few trait#’s and utilities depending on the class/build im going to face.

well looks like perplex wont be going to spvp

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

what…. noo My necro would have been so OP. keep them in.
Please tell me this is a april fools post.

hooma.9642:

Brando.1374:

hooma.9642:

1 guy mentioned it already. just implement a hard cap for maximal condi-dmg per second on a guy depending on life. then we have the same like in gw1. there it was not possible to get more then 10 degeneration ticks.

with that it should not be possible anymore to burst with condis. thats the only problem we have atm with condis. and thats not really a condi problem, its a game problem. the game or engine provides to much things that works additive without a cap or dimishing returns. so everything that overextend the border of being ok gets smelley cheese.

its every where.

evadespam, condisspam, certain boonspam,cc spam and so on. the game needs CAPS!

25 stack limit is a cap.

but its a wrong cap. its independed from the one it affects. it just count the number of stacks. 1 stack could do 1 dmg or 1000.. with a max dmg-cap and not amount of stacks it would not matter if the target has 1000000 health or 100. nor would the dmg per condi matter or the amount of different dmg-condis. it would always be real DAMAGE OVER TIME, like it should be. and not a CONDI-BURST like it can be very often in this game. attacking an ele or guardian with condis is different then attacking a necro or warrior. with that change different classes with less condis could also play a valid condi-build if they reach the dmg-cap fast enough just with less cover-condis. it would also prevent condi-bunker stacking as teamcomposition.

overstacking the dmg-cap would prevent healticks like it was in gw1.

1 stack of any condition (burning) will require around 2700 condition damage to go over 1k damage.
Use http://gw2.hazno.net/ to calculate how much damage you will deal or get.

condition builds are capped on damage due to the limit of stacks and how conditions override eachother.

hooma.9642:

1 guy mentioned it already. just implement a hard cap for maximal condi-dmg per second on a guy depending on life. then we have the same like in gw1. there it was not possible to get more then 10 degeneration ticks.

with that it should not be possible anymore to burst with condis. thats the only problem we have atm with condis. and thats not really a condi problem, its a game problem. the game or engine provides to much things that works additive without a cap or dimishing returns. so everything that overextend the border of being ok gets smelley cheese.

its every where.

evadespam, condisspam, certain boonspam,cc spam and so on. the game needs CAPS!

25 stack limit is a cap.

oZii.2864:

MercilessLemurs.7459:

Conditions’ have internal base damage, meaning if you have 0 conditions damage, they still do damage. Direct damage scales off power. If you have 0 power you do 0 direct damage.

What? Are you serious?

Also please tell me how you get 0 power in guild wars 2?

I lol’d as well.

Conditions don’t do more damage than physical attacks.
Conditions don’t burst faster than physical attacks.
Conditions need time to build up stacks in order to do significant damage.
Conditions are fine, class builds are what needs to be looked at.

Just to clairfy those who think 1 player will spam inturrupts to get 25 stacks of confusion,

IT WILL NOT HAPPEN!

there is a 15s CD on the 6th of this rune. at the most you can get 8 stacks from 1 player. at 1400 condi damage that 1360 damage per skill used until you cleanse confusion.