Guild Wars 2

spvp dps test for Necromancer
Condi http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844048 Total of 7 skills used
Power http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844034 Total of 4 skills used

that 11111 spam in the power build needs to be nerfed.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Brando.1374:

Bombsaway.7198:

Proposed: Change WHICH conditions get cleansed first.

How? Conditions are removed in order of the amount of damage they have left to do (total over all ticks).

Why? This makes condition removal more effective against BIG damage while focusing condition damage around applying multiple conditions and reapplying. It also acts as a slight buff to crowd control conditions which need a bit of love in the stability and melee centric warrior/guardian meta.

In short, the problem with condition damage is that a cleanse is just as likely to remove the LAST condition you want removed as the one that is really hurting you.

Then whats the point of getting condition damage if your MAIN source of damage will be removed?

as for CC conditions the only one that is great is Immobilize because you cant move and your a free target to be hammer trained. This is more dangerous than any damage based condition.
a close 2nd would be chill.

I don’t believe you should try to make condition cleanses work based on severity. If you keep it simple and it’s just based on time of application, you remove the bickering of both sides of the debate that, well if I get hit with poison, I want my cleanse to remove that first or I get 20 stacks of confusion, my cleanse should remove that first.

Leave it based on time of application and removal oldest condition and be done with it.

while thats great first in first out type of removal, Most players will eventyually find a way to keep their main damage condi on the class by stacking other conditions first.

currently their needs to be a way to have condi removal skills say what conditions it removes, similar to Hide in Shadows http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hide_in_Shadows
or at least apply this to AOE condi removal.

Bombsaway.7198:

Proposed: Change WHICH conditions get cleansed first.

How? Conditions are removed in order of the amount of damage they have left to do (total over all ticks).

Why? This makes condition removal more effective against BIG damage while focusing condition damage around applying multiple conditions and reapplying. It also acts as a slight buff to crowd control conditions which need a bit of love in the stability and melee centric warrior/guardian meta.

In short, the problem with condition damage is that a cleanse is just as likely to remove the LAST condition you want removed as the one that is really hurting you.

Then whats the point of getting condition damage if your MAIN source of damage will be removed?

as for CC conditions the only one that is great is Immobilize because you cant move and your a free target to be hammer trained. This is more dangerous than any damage based condition.
a close 2nd would be chill.

well we used to do that lol
then orbagedon hit and we lost players.

Spectal armor before going in DS, you get 8% DS hp for each hit you take. you essentially heal (get more DS hp)

I would love to duel you with my necro.
sadly im currently on TC

Consume conditions - 1 1/4s cast time
all Necro marks - 3/4s cast time
Grasping dead - 3/4s cast time
Enfeebling Blood - 3/4s cast time

MIrra.3604:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

MIrra.3604:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Distaste.4801:

When a single class can put on burning, bleeding, torment, confusion, and poison of course it’s going to be more of a burst than attrition,

What class is this? Necros and Thieves don’t have Confusion, Engineers and Rangers lack Torment, Warriors and Mesmers lack Poison, Eles lack any damage conditions other than bleeding and burning. Guardians have nothing but burning…

(WvW)

You forgetting about Runes and Sigils?

No sigils cause Confusion and necros aren’t prone to using Perplexity due to the 6th bonus not working with Fear. Thieves lack Burning as well (another one that sigils can’t inflict, and the only runes that do it are terribly ineffective).

So, I suppose it’s possible for engies and rangers to be using sigils of Torment, but they usually run other sigils (Earth or Geomancy, usually), I still have to question what one class is putting on all of those.

Necro with 4 piece Perplexity will have access to all conditions; Confusion, Poison, Fear, Bleeding, Immo, Chill, Cripple, Burning, Weakness, Vul, Blind (did I get them all?).You are also forgetting corrupt boons and well of corruption will convert Retal to Confusion.

I answered your question. The class with access to all conditions is the Necro.

whats so bad about a necro having access to all conditions? we are the class that thrives on condition/boon manipulation.

this kind of fight is almost like fighting a diamond skin ele. you just wont win with conditions alone.

Oozo.7856:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

correct, if we have 2+ then yes.
but even in a gvg setting, we needed 3 necro’s to be able to even dent the removal.

recently we tried some GvG’s with only 2 necro’s and we got smashed by EP and tied with Hope.

Have you guys tried to using venom sharing thief? It doesn’t matter if the venoms get applied from a power class or not since the dmg is based on the necro that spreads it and it gives a ton of condition coverage.

No we have not, most of out thieves are power.
it would be interesting to try though.

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

correct, if we have 2+ then yes.
but even in a gvg setting, we needed 3 necro’s to be able to even dent the removal.

recently we tried some GvG’s with only 2 necro’s and we got smashed by EP and tied with Hope.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Brando.1374:

a Necro wont have to hard of a time since we have several ways to remove/xfer conditions.
Other condi classes will die off.

Used to stop the “free kill” button that is Signet of Spite would go a long way to making the class a lot more balanced to fight against. I have seen Necro melt people using that skill and then die to the same class the moment they don’t use it.

So if that sort of condition burst had a counter, as with most condition builds of the likes of Thief, Engineer, Warrior and Mesmer then maybe, just maybe it would go a way to ridding us of this condition spam, spam, spam and people might just start using these conditions at the right time to get better effect.

I agree with finding a way to get rid of the “free kill” SoS that many complain about. Only bad thing about that is if all those conditions are sent back to us(necro’s), we can use them to heal us lol.

as for the condi spam, Yes. many condi players are just so used to spam spam spam dumbfire iwin situation we are in. I actually like to prey on those players in duels because of what you mentioned…they just spam and dont use their conditions at the right time.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

So i was thinking, retaliation is kind of used to counter direct long chain attacks but what if we had a new Boon that while active would send the conditions BACK to the person that sent them to you?

Some classes would need better access to it due to being much weaker against it but if they added a Boon that did this sort of thing, do you think it would go a way to countering the Condition spam that some condition classes use to kill people? Because it would be harder to spam someone to death with conditions if they are being sent back at you…

a Necro wont have to hard of a time since we have several ways to remove/xfer conditions.
Other condi classes will die off.

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst...really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros...well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ’meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say "Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols"

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

Dynnen.6405:

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

Zutha.5091:

I’ve fought an eng who does 20-25 k condition damage in under 5 seconds.

how many stacks of confusion did he stack on you?
also how many times did you auto within the 5s to do that amount of damage to yourself?

Ryld.1340:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Condition damage ignoring damage reductions is balanced out by the fact it also ignores damage amplifications. No traits, vulnerability stacks, or even special debuffs (like Frenzy) increase damage dealt by conditions.

Might

I think he is talking about %damage increase traits

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vYAQRAsY8Yl0Mp2p9Ox0J8PNR49gsj1saFoZ3DuS1qC-zUCBYfDimsI00HBKzURN3UYsKqIasabYaXCpqYRmUARsMC-w

so the build looks something like this right?

1. S/D thief
2. S/P thief
3. a good condi necro
4. PU Mes
5. dont matter because thats what we usually see anyway.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ashin.5986:

The only instance I’ve seen in which conditions seemed overpowered was 1v1 mesmer.

They are so weak in moderate to large scale WvW as to border on irrelevant.

Then you must not WvW often, Engineer condition builds are insane. I would personally have them being stronger than Necromancer myself and even they are simply insane if you are not built specifically to counter conditions and in that case you will not be killing them.

a necro loosing to another condi class just shows that is a bad necro who does not know how or when to xfer or clear condi’s.

personally my build the trait structure stays the same, traits change for certain situations (gvg, roaming, dueling) Utilities also change.

Now if you are solo roaming in wvw and know you cant win vs that class then blink/shadowstep/run away since we cant catch you. come back when we are not paying attention to gank us.

Duels – is you know its a condi class and you dont have the removal to win, dont fight us.

small group 5-10. 1 condi class will have a bit of an impact but power/sustain is better, if you have 3-4 condi classes then yes you will not have the ability to clear all those condi’s.

GvG 15v15 – if you want to run a condi class (necro) you will need at least 3 using the same build and skills to even come close to pressuring the other guilds condi removal.

zergs – GvG scenario but x10

Conditions a problem in WvW?
will all the aoe condi removal/runes/food you should not have issues with condition classes.

if you run solo you need to learn how to dodge Sig of spite.

a necro will win even without SoS or dumbfire.

only to physical damage.

amiavamp.9785:

Brando.1374:

no one cares about spvp lol

WvW is where its at.

In that case, a 2.6k life blast is pathetic.

for a power spec necro, yea

no one cares about spvp lol

WvW is where its at.

Jerry.1893:

Julie Yann.5379:

I was just wondering how often confusion procs with only shield bash and bull’s charge as an interrupt?

Often enough. It does take some good timing to land but if you watch for it you can get it off frequently.

I am on Jade Quarry, add me

ill add you when I get in game.
I have only recorded 1 fight with a condi warr and he was bad lol

what server are you on?
I would love to fight a decent condi warrior.

Carpboy.7145:

You’re flat out lying about those stats, especially with lyssa runes. This is as close as i could get, also notice both sigils are trying to buff the crit chance.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPHfS6E+5Ey2jeqCJKuHGlT1UdFiKA-jwBB4fCiUEgEBApmFRjtNoIasabYqYER1SBonyI-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlYmSPHfy9E/5Ey2jKUnIKuHOlR1UdF4KA-jUCB4fCiEEQEFgEBApmFRjtKqIasabYqYER1WzFRrWKgIWGB-w

this is pretty close to his description.
attack = 3175
crit rate = 31%
toughness = 2021
HP = 16,465
Crit dmg = 94%

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlYmSPHfy9E/5Ey2jKUnIKuHOlR1UdF4KA-jUCB4fCiEEQEFgUBApmFRjtKqIasabYqYER1WzFRrWKgIWGB-w

this is full ascended.
looks ok. *edit had valk armor instead of ptv

PVE - condi necro just does not do enough damage as physical damage classes. almost no group boon support.
PvP- Condi necro is ok if we are allowed to free cast and not stun locked.
WvW - this depends, small group or solo 1 necro is very very strong. in a GvG (15v15) you will need at least 3-4 necro’s to be able to even pressure the other team with conditions due to the mass aoe clears.

Andele.1306:

Brando.1374:

Well of Corruption – retaliation corruption is bugged. it only gives 1 stack of confusion instead of 3.

Again pretty sure intended nerf…

Might be, I just want them to come out and say it.

Hex.6415:

Everybody relax.

It’s not like they’ll put existing necro dhuumfire on a skill that can only be activated at certain times, without buffing it’s damage.

Rite? Riiiite ?

I fully expect a buff to life blast-dhuumfire damage by a factor of at least 2 in order to preserve current necro damage output. Also with life blast pierce it may actually be something to consider taking.

…skillful play and all that…

(oh noes…life blast pierce and dhuumfire proccing on every pierced target… means life blast damage will be nerfed after next patch…!)

(December 2015 patch notes: life blast generates a nice looking red debuff icon when it contacts the enemy. The icon will be animated and will display a red santa dancing around a fire. The effect will be cosmetic only and can be purchased for 150 gems to permanently unlock)

Dumbfire has a 10s cd. even if LB hits 2 targets only 1 will proc dumbfire.

Well of Corruption - retaliation corruption is bugged. it only gives 1 stack of confusion instead of 3.

bobbles.5940:

Necro’s don’t have bugs it’s a “feature” lol

thats what it is starting to look like.

Im soooooo Happy they nerfed this trait.

Necro Bump

Just wanted to post up the terror fomula
2+(4.5*level)+(0.3*condi dmg) this will only show the dmg without any other condition on the target
add 50% if they have another condition
then you need to nerf it by 17%

unleashed.8679:

you are right, but that doesn’t make sense, ...

wiki is wrong.
calculation is 2+(4.5*level)+(0.3*condi dmg) this will only show the dmg without any other condition on the target
362 + 390 = 752

add 50% for the target having a condition on them = 1128 terror damage
Now nerf it by 17% lol you get = 936 terror damage.

unleashed.8679:

The build is relative clear:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYmCp7x7JEoHAAAAiRKImghSBAkOA-TsAAzCpIKS9l7LTRyvsfNCYtwUAA (2)

From the terror damage, he was running around with ~2.000 (1) condition damage. Max. value from armor is 1.200 so the rest came from 25 might stacks.

So you run into a necro with full might stacks, had aegis and stability on yourself. These got corrupted (1,6*(2s+3s) = 8s burn) and you got your first fear, then he placed staff 5 and used DS 2 and 5. For all those bleeds, the necro had to hit you multiple times and used blood is power.

(1) I used this calculation: 2 + (4,5 * level) + (0,3 * condi damage) from german wiki
english wiki said its 0,4 * condi damage what leads to ~2.600 condi damage (think that’s wrong)
(2) Amulet could be Carrio, runes could be 6*necromancers, too.

based off burning the necro was running around 1300 condi dmg

wvw thief is much more potent because we have the liberty of not being constrained to a circle to win. we can move and dodge where ever we want to help us win.

Cynz.9437:

this was done in 3 sec, gl dodging all that aoe while being feared non stop

condis can burst as fast as direct dmg if not faster

worse, the amount of condi comming from some AA (hello scepter necros) is simply absurd; i rolled that build for funzies on my necro, i killed ppl with AA alone….skill yo

Fight was at least 6 seconds due to 6 ticks of fear.

Dont worry all the bad necro’s will cry once Dumbfire is on Ds1 and can be dodged

Taisia.2813:

Please please please correct the “BEHINDS”… I don’t see it as a “cape” or whatever was intended… No cloth looks that way without a HUGE butt filling it. And my toon is slim and I like her slim :/

Anet likes big Butts and we cannot lie lol

Necro’s can corrupt Retal sure but it will only give 1 stack of confusion which after the confusion nerf is almost laughable.

there is no real punishment for an enemy group to spam aoe retal

any update on this.
can we get a confirmation that this is a bug or the wiki is incorrect.

1. Thieves’ Shadow refuge is now a elite skill with 150 seconds cooldown.
in that case make thieves guild a utility with a 60s cd. fair trade.

2. Warrior’s healing signet nerfed to absolute oblivion.
im ok with this.

3. Necro’s dhuumfire deleted.
Yes!!!!! for the love of god do this!
I cant wait for all the bad necro’s to cry. (must revert all nerfs due to this trait)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Brando.1374:

My best solution (well at least for necro’s) is to nerf Sig of spite by giving it a 2s cast time and a nerf or removal of dumbfire.

Dhuumfire is getting changed to be tied to life blast. Signet of Spite needs no nerf. It’s already a 1 second cast with a massive animation. Try taking the easy dodge instead of asking for it to be even easier.

Only reason I mention sos is because ppl complain when they get hit by it and they refer to that skill as our Iwin button.

small scale and 1v1 conditions are strong. the only classes that give me issues are high evade theif and S/F ele

but in wvw once we get to 10+ guild group conditions start to take a backseat due to the aoe condi clears.

My best solution (well at least for necro’s) is to nerf Sig of spite by giving it a 2s cast time and a nerf or removal of dumbfire.

Mbelch.9028:

I’d just like to see wep swapping ignore chill. I think it’s pretty fair.

I would prefer all wep swaps to be affected by chill. to keep it in line with ele attune swaps and Necro DS cd.

I think staff 2-5 are ok. 235 could do a bit more direct dmg to help power builds if they use staff.

The AA needs help. its slow moving projectile, 3/4s cast time, and did I mention slow!
make the travel time to the target instant and give it a small aoe when it hits the target.

Just an FYI chill does affect our Death shroud CD

Rednik.3809:

Brando.1374:

Quality over quantity. Being able to field 40+ does not impress anyone.

This list is based of of gvg. 15v15 or 20v20

GvG must reflect real ability to manage guild zerg in field, not small group of chosen individuals from roster. 20 ppl barely can manage real blob, 15 will likely be roflstomped. I always was for 25 ppl as standard format for GvG (for T1 it’s more like 30-40, but 25 is good solid raid size for good wvw guild).

Gvg has never been about having more players or being able to wipe a 40-60 man zerg.

It’s about 2 guilds sending their 15-20 best players to fight to the death not to simulate zerg busting.