Guild Wars 2

Hello all,

here is my suggestion to help Balance this trait.

Move this trait to Curses GM along with Terror and Force Necro’s to pick one or the other! because lets face it most players are bad and cant handle the 1k+700 dmg ticks of terror and burning.
Only way this would be acceptable is if they revert the bleed stack nerfs, the 17% dmg nerf on terror and the putird mark nerf.

Lets bring back skill into this class instead of a passive, just get a crit every 10 seconds spamathon that most Bad players run.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQJArYCqbKApCXPpI7vhKsb0DiBIZA-jQCBYhgINA0CApoFRjtgRIq8RjVdDTHjIq2crIa1SBAx0I-e

with this build you max out on your bleed duration with 133%
each auto attach apply a 1 bleed for about 132 per second for 9 seconds for at total of 1188. add the direct damage and its 1318 per auto attack every 9 seconds.

so full auto attack rotaion will do 1318+1318+2006 = 4642 dmg over 9 seconds or 515 dps

now the only way conditions can be somewhat useful in pve is if we can maintain 25 stacks of bleeds on our own.

132*25= 3300 per second

Now a warrior can HB for 50k+ withing 3 seconds while a condi necro with full stacks of bleeds will only be able to reach 9900 damage withing that same time frame.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Brando.1374:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Brando.1374:

… Blinds to not make your skills block-able, they make you miss your target so the skill will not land.
just because the skill is “unblockable” does not mean it will connect 100% of the time. if that was the case I can cast corrupt boon from 2000m away and I will still hit my target since its Unblockable.

hey thanks for the feedback but now i want people to comment on the dim slider.

do u know the screen dims when we are blind?

Yes, I knew about that. very similar to how it looks like when you are dazed.

deng. i did not notice all those on screen effects.
could it be because i am using best performance mode, and those things are … disabled? O_O

im looking over some of my recorded streams and the Blind effect is not very noticeable but there is an on screen effect. all 4 corners get dark and the middle stays the same so that might be by you never noticed it.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Brando.1374:

… Blinds to not make your skills block-able, they make you miss your target so the skill will not land.
just because the skill is “unblockable” does not mean it will connect 100% of the time. if that was the case I can cast corrupt boon from 2000m away and I will still hit my target since its Unblockable.

hey thanks for the feedback but now i want people to comment on the dim slider.

do u know the screen dims when we are blind?

Yes, I knew about that. very similar to how it looks like when you are dazed.

... Blinds to not make your skills block-able, they make you miss your target so the skill will not land.
just because the skill is "unblockable" does not mean it will connect 100% of the time. if that was the case I can cast corrupt boon from 2000m away and I will still hit my target since its Unblockable.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Brando.1374:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Brando.1374:

Plague form = 20 seconds of stability
also if traited you can dish out psn/blind/chil every second with Plague 2 so yes we can facetank, that does not mean we will make it out alive it means we can soak up lots of dmg.

Stability, now it would be a shame if someone removed it…

we are necro’s we all should know the risk of using stability without cover boons.

Curious what other Boons can we apply?

Swiftness(Warhorn
Regen (Staff, Focus)
Stability (Trait, Well)
Retal(Axe)

We don’t exactly have a huge amount of access to Boons like some classes.

solo no we cant, but with a group we can get boons from everyone
besides we still have the ability to blind spam and have a huge hp and armor boost when we get into plague. so like I said we might not make it out alive but we can tank for a very long time.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

^ fear me has a radius of 600
epidemic has a radius of 600

so you are saying,

1. warrior fears me sends victim running into a nearby group, range further than 600
2. fear duration was 4s, 2s remaining when victim reaches nearby group
3. necro epidemic the original victim
4. 5 targets near the original victim gets 2s of remaining fear

and … that is OP?

Not only does it spread fear but ALL conditions from the target that was picked for epidemic. so yes that is kinda op.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMaZ6haab87JAJFX/8kivHP6RxDHMA-jEDB4igYLIINYoOBikGk+IQZSFRjtGsIasKZC1qbY6YJyeDTKAYmGB-w

with this build you are a Condi dmg/Boon striping/Blinding and chilling Tank

they should move Dumbfire and terror to Curses GM trait and revert all the nerfs we got due to dumbfire/terror burst

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Brando.1374:

Plague form = 20 seconds of stability
also if traited you can dish out psn/blind/chil every second with Plague 2 so yes we can facetank, that does not mean we will make it out alive it means we can soak up lots of dmg.

Stability, now it would be a shame if someone removed it…

we are necro’s we all should know the risk of using stability without cover boons.

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

Oozo.7856:

keloorie.6085:

we necros do not have any abilities to face tank focus dmg unless we are taking the minion build or the well build.

What?

alright im not an expert , but IMO we dont have that attrition good?

Necro is the best face-tanking class out there due to DS/Plague/DS chain. We just can’t escape the focus very well. We can take it up the kitten for far longer than any other class though. :P

I thought i said it in the very first reply about that, we are not good at face tanking focus dmg… did I ? pls read well dude

We are the best at face-tanking damage focus damage, not good at escaping it. Escaping damage isn’t the same thing as face-tanking it.

so … when 3 person focusing fire on you, stunning and knocking back, placing 10 stacks of bleed, cofusion, torment on you and you can survive that just by face tanking ? good job

Plague form = 20 seconds of stability
also if traited you can dish out psn/blind/chil every second with Plague 2 so yes we can facetank, that does not mean we will make it out alive it means we can soak up lots of dmg.

3 weeks of the same match is nothing..... try 13 weeks

dreztina.4820:

#1 - The eles are running scepter focus. It is purely a dueling build and it is extremely unlikely you will ever run into anyone running it outside of obsidian sanctum.

2 - You are running a suboptimal build because you don’t want to cheese it up. Most necros don’t care.

3 - You still won.

Not sure what you were hoping to prove, but you didn’t do a very good job of it.

1 - almost no one roams solo anymore in t1-2 so hence why I posted vids of my duels with ele in the gvg arena. Besides if I was roaming an ele/war/any class would just run away once they feel pressure.

2 - Just because im not a scrub that has to rely on a stupid trait Im running a sub optimal build? I can almost faceroll those dumbfire necro’s with the build I have been running since March (before Necro was "OP")

3 - yes I won but only because they didnt run diamond skin.

instead of bleeds on the aa change it to torment so they will have to stay within melee range or they will take extra dmg.

Mochann.5298:

Brando.1374:

yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.

If you can’t kill an Ele in 9 seconds with your condi spam, you are a horrible Necro player.

with my condi dmg if I am able to keep 10 stacks of bleeds and psn on any class for 9 seconds ill do about 15k dmg. but what class does not have active condi removal and what player will allow 10 stacks of bleeds to remain on them?

check out these 2 ele’s that dont run diamond skin and see how long our duels where and how long my condi’s stay on them.
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3438895

Now that you watched some duels, imaging that ele with diamond skin…. with all the regen they have I would not have been able to get below their 90% and I would have lost.

just an fyi I do not run dumbfire since I do just fine without it.

dreztina.4820:

Brando.1374:

dreztina.4820:

Brando.1374:

yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.

Hi, welcome to how elementalists have felt when fighting necros for months and months now. Maybe if those of you crusading against DS had put some effort into getting condis nerfed down to more reasonable levels, anet wouldn’t have resorted to a hard counter.

I just dont understand how an ele can complain about conditions.
over the last month I have fought some pretty good ele’s and had duels last several min and a few even beat me so im not sure what this complain is about since other players have been able to give a tanky condi necro a run for my money why cant you?

Oh, well then. Some elementalists have beaten you in a duel. Obviously elementalists are perfectly balanced and not at all at a disadvantage vs. necros. Thanks for clearing that up.

your welcome.

Ynot.8397:

Brando.1374:

Ynot.8397:

Zephyrus.9680:

vincecontix.1264:

Condi necros are really strong in combat but that is offset by the fact they don’t have great mobility.

This. They’re one of the strongest 1v1 classes and have the ezmode button but they pay in lack of mobility.

Except that anyone with cc should have no problems fighting a necro. Necros have no stability and then they need to pay for it by not having the ability to block/invuln/run from damage. Necros without using signet of spite need to pay for all the necros who use it?

Dat logic.

signet of spite also has a 3/4s cast so its easy to dodge

Easy to dodge 1v1. In group fights its almost impossible to dodge.

then your group needs to spec for a bit more aoe condi removal.

Mochann.5298:

Oozo.7856:

Straegen.2938:

I know this is somewhat worn out but rock meet paper.

I prefer the “skilled player on one class has a chance against a skilled player on another class, no matter what the builds are” system. There should be inherent advantages in different build matchups but not passive hard counters.

Get rid of thieves then. Stealth Zerker backstabber Thieves are a hard counter to Elementalist Full Glass Zerker builds.

glass vs glass is a battle of who get their bust off first. not a counter

Ynot.8397:

Zephyrus.9680:

vincecontix.1264:

Condi necros are really strong in combat but that is offset by the fact they don’t have great mobility.

This. They’re one of the strongest 1v1 classes and have the ezmode button but they pay in lack of mobility.

Except that anyone with cc should have no problems fighting a necro. Necros have no stability and then they need to pay for it by not having the ability to block/invuln/run from damage. Necros without using signet of spite need to pay for all the necros who use it?

Dat logic.

signet of spite also has a 3/4s cast so its easy to dodge

if I get downed in a solo fight it might as well be the same as being stomped.

dreztina.4820:

Brando.1374:

yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.

Hi, welcome to how elementalists have felt when fighting necros for months and months now. Maybe if those of you crusading against DS had put some effort into getting condis nerfed down to more reasonable levels, anet wouldn’t have resorted to a hard counter.

I just dont understand how an ele can complain about conditions.
over the last month I have fought some pretty good ele’s and had duels last several min and a few even beat me so im not sure what this complain is about since other players have been able to give a tanky condi necro a run for my money why cant you?

yes any necro can deal 1.5k dmg to an ele, but every 9 or so seconds they can go back into water and heal back up and by that time we might as well give up since it will be a loosing battle.

Arlette.9684:

Brando.1374:

Arlette.9684:

Burnfall.9573:

Op. i disagree with you. You mention runes and food…

All class have Equal access to them including Equal access to condition builds.

So that would make all classes Op than?

Necromancers are not even an Elite class..

Why Pick on Necromancers?

Why Punish Necromancers?

Don’t they deserve the same Rights as us?

Don’t they deserve the Freedom to be who they are?

I conclude… It is your Imagination.

I’m sorry what? Guardians have a condition build? Since when? O.o

I conclude… It is your imagination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhgV0S7v1L4

My imagination is nice

I dare you to do that in the current meta not in august… even for back then it’s rather unimpressive. So yea, are you really comparing that to a condi necro? I’d love to get some of what you’ve been smoking.

you asked for a condi build. I provided that didnt I?
geez some people are just too picky.

cymerdown.4103:

Necromancer

Summary: The support from Putrid Mark was increased. Lich Form’s autoattack damage was reduced slightly, and two of its other abilities were improved. The duration of conditions caused by Signet of Spite were reduced a bit to lower its extreme effectiveness, especially in 1v1s. Minion Masters saw a slight reduction in minion damage from Training of the Master, and Terror was moved up to Grandmaster tier.

Marks — Marks now start to appear as they are being cast. They start off as mostly transparent, becoming fully opaque as the cast time ends.

Putrid Mark — Now also transfers 1 condition from up to 5 allies within 600 range of the mark when triggered to enemies within the mark, in addition to the 3 conditions transferred from the caster.

Grasping Dead — Returned the 3rd bleed stack to PvP.

Signet of Spite — Changed the active effect to the following:
Damage: 263
Bleeding(2): 7 seconds
Blind: 5 seconds
Crippled: 5 seconds
Poison: 7 seconds
Vulnerability(5): 7 seconds
Weakness: 5 seconds
Activation: 0.5 seconds
Range: 1200

Deathly Claws — Reduced damage by 10%.

Marked for Death — Now gives Vulnerability(10): 8 seconds, instead of Vulnerability(8): 10 seconds.

Mark of Horror — Reduced the casting time to 1 second, down from 1.5 seconds. Now summons 6 jagged horrors, up from 5.

Training of the Master — Reduced damage increase to 20%, down from 30%.

Weakening Shroud — Now applies Bleed(2): 6 seconds, instead of Bleed(1).

Withering Precision — Moved to Master tier.

Terror — Moved to Grandmaster tier.

You forgot Move Dumbfire to Curses Grandmaster tier

Arlette.9684:

Burnfall.9573:

Op. i disagree with you. You mention runes and food…

All class have Equal access to them including Equal access to condition builds.

So that would make all classes Op than?

Necromancers are not even an Elite class..

Why Pick on Necromancers?

Why Punish Necromancers?

Don’t they deserve the same Rights as us?

Don’t they deserve the Freedom to be who they are?

I conclude… It is your Imagination.

I’m sorry what? Guardians have a condition build? Since when? O.o

I conclude… It is your imagination.

My imagination is nice

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Thief
10% damage when attacking a player from the side or behind. Not HP dependant.

Condi necro is OP for players that don’t know how to manage their condi cleanse.

I have had some 1v1’s last 3-6 min vs players that know how to cleanse the conditions I can put out.

while some go down in 15 seconds like this warrior I dueled last week. http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

FYI I refuse to run dumbfire, its a waste of 30 trait points. I have been running the same build since march.

I run dire armor with runes of scavaging. mix of rabid and rabid/dire trinkets.
weps are all dire, running 0/30/20/20/0

close to 2.8k armor
25k hp
a bit over 2k condi dmg without any stacks just food.

I have faced several warriors 1v1 in the new gvg arena (obsidian sanctom)

I usually keep 2-3 stun breakers at all times (spectral walk can serve as 2 in one)
here is a vid of a pretty basic warrior that wanted to play with me.
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319

*sorry for the bad quality. My laptop sucks

Super Kruegs.8967:

Brando.1374:

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

Zerglings should stay with the zerg and leave guild only raids alone. Stop trying to mess with the guilds game mode!

This. Or join a real W3 guild get the kitten in teamspeak and L2P. There’s so much that goes into a good guild group no one wants some random around kitten up the plan.

what makes you think we are not in TS or a real WvW guild?
Like I said stop trying to make us play the game the way you want it to be played.

Nerf: Remove Dumbfire from the game completely

Good Fights [GF]

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

Zerglings should stay with the zerg and leave guild only raids alone. Stop trying to mess with the guilds game mode!

is a thief hits my necro for 7k I know he is pretty much glass, I just load him up with some bleeds and fear him....downed thief.

[GF] usually runs 5-15 depending on who is online.

but sadly if you want small group action on a more steady basis T2 and up isnt where you should look for it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7djMaZ7haWb87JEoH5CuAiRKKGlhSB8wOA-TsAAzCpI+RBlDKzPShsCNMYBy2AA

i00% chill duration

WvW
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7djMah6ZbWb87JAJFX/8kivHP6RxDrMA-jkCB4iCyk0wEIBKTtIas1PhtEKaFUBRJjIqWpEzYuIa1SBAx0I-w

I thinks its because I was able to get 2 sparks from tossing wvw dagger into the mystic toilet in the past.

hackks.3687:

Brando.1374:

hackks.3687:

Brando.1374:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Ugh… you might start by:

- don’t just hit buttons trying to brute force your way through an opponent
- pay attention to your opponent: what they’re casting, how they’re casting and for how long, boons/conditions/buffs/etc.
- understand their build, how they use it, so you can avoid their strengths and exploit the weaknesses.
- At the very least, be mindful of your CDs and use them appropriately – i.e. don’t throw down your Dagger 4 when you don’t have any conditions on you; don’t use Flesh Golem’s Charge just to abate some pressure from a caster, use it to interrupt important casts like Heals or Churning Earth
- Don’t run face first into big damage skills like Churning Earth
- Don’t throw down staff marks and then run away from them.

that’s what I got from the first0 or so. I couldn’t really take much more than that.

im a full condi dmg necro, I have no power, how the kitten am I supposed to get him below 90%? and on the off chance that I do going into water will bring him back up.

Well since you asked:

Personally, I’d send Flesh Golem after them while I wait for them to open. If they RTL to me, as soon as I see the character model change I’d be into DS and strafing while pre-casting Dark Path, so I could avoid the RTL and get in an easy Life Blast at close range when they pop out of it. If that LB and DP are enough to blow through Diamond Skin then I’m already set up for a Terror Nuke with Doom and can put them on the back foot and take the initiative in the fight. If I still need to kick out more direct damage, then I go to Life Transfer. I’d be sure to hold on to Flesh Golem’s Charge as well so that when I see them swap back to Water attunement I can interrupt their heal and then lay on the real condi burst.

The fight could be played completely different as well. That’s why understanding and paying attention to your opponent are critical to success in PvP combat.

You might be a condi build, but you’re not devoid of direct damage. Be creative. Come up with something.

that will only delay the ele from healing.

wasting DS with my build (since I only have spectral skills to regen lf) only to ds1 or 4 them is useless since they can have their regen get their hp back up withing a few seconds. as for using the charge, thats a wasted charge again because eventually they will go back to water and heal up in what 9 seconds? and if you see in that duel I wasnt able to keep my bleeds on for more that a few seconds before he cleared them.

dire armor with scavenging runes with a mix of rabid and dire/rabid ascended items

Lily.1935:

Brando.1374:

it was always 4 seconds in pve/wvw
it was reduced to 2 seconds in svp

it was 4 seconds with the added 30% duration with spite. its base was 3 seconds. Now its base is 4 seconds.

No it has always been 4 seconds in pve/wvw.
ew Grandmaster trait—Dhuumfire: Players can inflict burning to opponents for 4 seconds on critical hit. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.

taken from the patch notes of june 25th

it was always 4 seconds in pve/wvw
it was reduced to 2 seconds in svp

hackks.3687:

Brando.1374:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Ugh... you might start by:

- don’t just hit buttons trying to brute force your way through an opponent
- pay attention to your opponent: what they’re casting, how they’re casting and for how long, boons/conditions/buffs/etc.
- understand their build, how they use it, so you can avoid their strengths and exploit the weaknesses.
- At the very least, be mindful of your CDs and use them appropriately - i.e. don’t throw down your Dagger 4 when you don’t have _any_ conditions on you; don’t use Flesh Golem’s Charge just to abate some pressure from a caster, use it to interrupt important casts like Heals or Churning Earth
- Don’t run face first into big damage skills like Churning Earth
- Don’t throw down staff marks and then run away from them.

that’s what I got from the first0 or so. I couldn’t really take much more than that.

im a full condi dmg necro, I have no power, how the kitten am I supposed to get him below 90%? and on the off chance that I do going into water will bring him back up.

also I dont mind tanking churning earth, thats bleeds that I can use to heal myself or xfer back to him. I use dagger 4 for the blind also not only for condi removal.
but back to my point I cant damage him when he has above 90% health and my auto attacks dont hit hard at all.

Buffs
Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75 per second to 1 per second

Nerfs
Critical Strikes VIII—Signet Use: Reduced the initiative gain from 2 to 1
Critical Strikes 15—Opportunist: Increased the trigger chance to 50%. Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 5 seconds.
Shadow Arts V—Infusion of Shadow: Increased the amount of initiative gained to 2, but only when entering stealth. (it was always 2)
Acrobatics IX—Quick Recovery: Reduced the initiative gain from 2 to 1.
Trickery 5— – Kleptomaniac: Reduced the initiative gain from 3 to 2.

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Kalan.9705:

Waffler.1257:

Brando.1374:

I think people should stop complaining about gear in wvw.
this is the endgame for gw2, did you expect to just walk in and be the best?

I remember back in the day when players were the best at a game because they had superior knowledge, reflexes, and decision making, not because they had dedicated the most time to performing menial and repetitive tasks to make their character sheet have the biggest numbers.

People who have to rely on their grinded gear will often defend their grind as if it represents skill. It represents time spent, not skill.

if you dont like the “skill” level in wvw since its only a representation of the “grind” to get the gear with the stats we want then Spvp is always there for you.

Eloquence.5207:

Brando.1374:

I think people should stop complaining about gear in wvw.
this is the endgame for gw2, did you expect to just walk in and be the best?

I see you take pride in collecting loot bags from upleveled characters.

actually no, I dont.
I take pride in collecting bags from zergs and enemy guild groups. Uplevels never drop anything good. I usually wont engage them unless they want to attack me.

Fortus.6175:

Josh Davis.6015:

Ideally, all of our high impact skills should allow for counter-play via a clearly telegraphed attack animation.

I seriously dont understand the thought pattern behind a skill that hits anywhere 8k-10k, can be used every 4 seconds, has no animation and was given to probably the best roamer, disengager, stealth-spammy and spikers in the game…..

It baffles me….

are you really complaining about the worst class in spvp right now?

I think people should stop complaining about gear in wvw.
this is the endgame for gw2, did you expect to just walk in and be the best?

use your glory to get tome of knowledge cost 1.5k glory and 20 silver.
you will need 37.5k glory and 5 gold to 25 levels

How about you stay in Spvp and I get to keep the gear I actually worked to get.