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[NA] Renegatus [Ren] Raid Guild Recruiting

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Bump!

Getting prepped to launch another raid team focused on weekly wing 1+2 clears

[Math] DEKeyz's GW2 Rotation Calculator

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

After a lot of development, testing, and HotM golem whacking, I’m ready to release my Guild Wars 2 all-profession rotation calculator for public use.

The calc is designed so that a user can input equipment, traits, and rotations (from a dictionary of almost 800 skills) and the sheet will calculate DPS, heals per second, and survivability – opening theorycrafting to many who have the interest but not the time to develop their own DPS calculator. This comes preloaded with some non-optimized PvE rotations and enables the comparison of up to 5 builds’ DPS graphically. A lot of notes about sampling methods and assumptions are included on the first page of the spreadsheet. For those who do have their own calculators, I hope the data in this sheet are a useful resource.

This tool is by no means complete, and while my testing team has done a great job I am sure there are still bugs and shortcomings in functionality in this beast of a sheet. I would appreciate any reports of irregularities in performance or suggestions.

I would like to thank my two main testers Knox and Obal for their many, many hours of work. Also thanks to [DnT] members past and present and many other players who contributed data, ideas, questions, and feedback; and thanks to [qT], [Ren], and [SC] for feedback on the numbers on a broad scale and their own experimental data for comparison.

I hope that this inspires improved online DPS calculation tools that use the data (and possibly algorithms) provided in this sheet. I know Chase (who is active on Metabattle) has been looking at online implementations and I’m sure he would be happy to have collaborators on the project, and I would also love the opportunity to continue improving my theoretical framework for DPS calculations in a more accessible platform.

As I find and squish more bugs, I will try to keep an updated version on my user page on Metabattle. Happy theorycrafting

DEKeyz vs MetaBattle

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

You lose one 10% modifier and one 20% modifier that you may not even use (and some vuln uptime, but that doesn’t matter any more) for one 10% modifier with approximately 20-40% uptime, but you gain access to some grossly OP skills. Moreover, as others have pointed out already, overload fire is also great for stacking might in solo situations. Here’s what my math says for expected DPS in groups with raid-level consumables (air/force sigils, sharpening stone, 25 might/vuln, permafury, etc):

Attachments:

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Scepter Air AA increases in its damage per hit over the full channel, from .1 for the first 3 hits, to .2 for the next 3 hits, to .3 for the last 4 hits. The overhead damage is summed, but the increments are displayed in the combat log.

Also, guide has been updated for HoT. Sorry for the delay.

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

You’re both right. The coefficient per strike of scepter air AA (Arc Lightning) increases from .1 per hit for the first 3 hits, to .2 per hit for the next 3, to .3 per hit for the last 4. However, the damage displayed over a target’s head is the sum of the damage from that skill. Engi Flamethrower auto has the same effect except provides constant damage.

Also, guide (finally) updated for HoT. Sorry for the delay >.<

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

The content in the guide as a whole (minus a few edits for FB) is up to date. The preface may not be, though :X

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Staff Rotations

  • Base Rotation: Eruption – Air – Glyph of Storms – Fire – Lava Font – Meteor Shower – Lava Font – Fireball x3 – Lava Font – Fireball x3 – Lava Font – Fireball x3 – Lava Font – Fireball x4 – repeat from 1st Lava Font

If i understand right we are using Glyph of Storms only once per fight?

In most fights, your target shouldn’t last long enough for a second GoS. In the case that it is off CD before your target is dead, either cast it in fire for a small DPS gain, or flip through the attunements starting with Air and utilizing FGS 5 and 4 to help keep your DPS up.

I will update soon now that FB4 has been nerfed hard. It’s still useful and can be a DPS gain for eles in some circumstances.

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

  • Staff >>> Scepter/Dagger + Hammer > Scepter/Focus + Hammer > Dagger/Focus
  • Yes. Scepter has no cleave and all of its autoattacks have low coefficients
  • I don’t support D/D in PvE. It’s super fun for sure, but it is out DPSed by other builds and doesn’t bring the utility of D/F to make up for it.
  • Stand back and use staff. Take Ether Renewal as your heal.

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Yes, I have updated this thread with all build updates.

Hi!

I just wanted to ask if we should be expecting updates on the guide for the new stuff that got implemented yesterday!

I updated the videos today and will work on the text guide over the next couple days. I expect some balancing to occur so I may drag my feet until Tuesday.

Need explanation on blast finishers,phoenix

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

If there is a limit on comboing fields, it is well above 5. Organized groups regularly stack 25 might in one fire field using blast finishers (9 blasts for 25 might). The radius for that might is 360, meaning you must be within 360 units of the blast to receive the might.

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Yes, I have updated this thread with all build updates.

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Did some updates, but not complete. Video updates coming soon.

(edited by DEKeyzToChaos.7381)

Incoming Might Nerf

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Assume Fire Sig, Banners, 100% uptime on all modifiers and fury, 25 might/vuln, night/force. Gear and food optimized a bit for highest EP, no infusions included.

For D/F
Build is VI-VII-XI / VI-X-XII / VI / – / -. Berserker everything with truffle steak.

D/F Non-Flamewall rotation
Burn Speed – Air – Arc Wave – LW x4 – Earth – Arc Brill – Mag Wave – Air – LW x9 – Fire – Burn Speed – Air – LW x4 – Water – Comet – Frozen Burst – Air – LW x8 – Fire

11,991 DPS fully buffed. Averages about 4.9-5.7 vuln, 11.13 might, 55% burning uptime. 11,669 direct DPS.
Old rotation would have been 11,864 DPS. This is a 1% DPS increase.
With Strength Runes: New rotation is 11,156 DPS, 15.60 might.
Note if the ele is the only source of burning then Fire VI should be swapped for Fire V.

D/F Flamewall rotation
Flamewall – Burning Speed – Air – Arc Wave – LW x4 – Earth – Arc Brill – Mag Wave – LW x10* – Fire – Burning Speed – Flamewall – Air – LW x4 – Water – Frozen Burst – Comet – Air – LW x11 – Fire ( *that LW x10 may have to be LW x11)

With Scholar’s Runes: 11,838 DPS fully buffed. Averages about 5.5-6.5 vuln, 9.18 might, 100% burning uptime. 11,255 direct DPS.
Old rotation would have been 11,171 DPS. This is about a 6% increase in personal DPS.
With Strength Runes: New rotation is 11,032 DPS, 12.91 might.

S/F hammer
Berserker everything with Sweet and Spicy.
Conjurer: Build is II-VI-XI / VI-VII-X / VI / 0 / 0. 12,399 DPS fully buffed (12,121 direct). Averages about 3-4 vuln, 17.29 might, 48% burning uptime.

Non-Conjurer: Build is VI-*-XI / VI-VII-X / VI / 0 / 0. 13,266 DPS fully buffed (12,699 direct). Averages about 4 vuln, 18.49 might, .97 burning uptime for the duration of the non-repeatable sequence of actions.

Of course, adding in Glyph of Storms in Air affects these figures but should be cast as early as possible without missing blasts. Also, S/D Hammer Conjurer rotations are still higher DPS than S/F Conjurer rotations, but S/D non-Conjurer is lower DPS than S/F non-Conjurer.

(edited by DEKeyzToChaos.7381)

My opinions on warr vs. ele for speed solos

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Is it perhaps still worth it while soloing to ensure you maintain perma burning for the damage modifier?

Not sure if you get enough burning from other sources to make it redundant.

Burning speed + burning precision should be enough.

This whole flamewall thing should have never happened. It has been going on for too long just because of a simple mistake done by Keyz, and I am saying this with the utmost respect for her. She thought that flamewall’s coefficient is 0.3 while it has always been 0.1, therefore the total damage this skill deals over ten seconds is three times lower than she thought. She designed her rotations with this in mind, and so they have always been suboptimal. I have showed this to her many times but she never acted upon it, and now she seems to be inactive. The original D/F rotations exposed in my guides are stronger in terms of both might stacking and DPS.

I don’t appreciate your misrepresentation of me. I’ve used a coefficient of 0.1 per tick for flamewall in my calcs for a very, very long time even if the publicly available academic resources weren’t kept up to date with my calculator’s backend. Even in my guide I mention three rotations for D/F and mention that a non-FW rotation is stronger for might stacking and slightly stronger in terms of DPS.

Announcing Fall 2014 Dungeon Speed Clear Open

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Tune into Nike’s stream (www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt) tonight at reset (NA servers) to see the seeding! Good luck to all the teams!

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Not any significant changes other than to elites. I have Scepter and Staff video guides – updated for all the changes between the April balance patch and the September one – already done and am evaluating if D/F needs a redo. I will update the text guide over the weekend.

30 Days to the Fall Dungeon Speed Clear Open!

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Just a quick reminder that there are 30 days to go until the Fall Speed Clear Open!

Registration is still open for teams until September 24. Based on the feedback from the first tournament, we have changed the rules to allow more flexible party compositions and rezzing. Full rules are available in the tournament informational thread.

The prize pool is over 4,000 gold and 14,000 gems plus other goodies for participating guilds from our sponsors, and increasing daily. Remember the tournament will be happening after the feature patch and FGS nerf, so the meta will be wide open and anything can happen.

We have five registered teams currently and since this is an open format there is no limitation to the number of teams in the tournament – guilds with plenty of members can field multiple teams if they have the interest!

View the current bracket to see who has signed up!

Announcing Fall 2014 Dungeon Speed Clear Open

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Is this still going on? No posts in 2 weeks and I notice 2 teams removed their registration from your website…

Yep! We have been busy setting up stuff on the back end and securing more donations. Current bracket is now included in first post.

Elite Ele help (PvE, SPvP)/Lf Elite Guild

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I would love to run your PvE rotation through my calculator to compare damage numbers to the more meta builds, if you’re willing to share it.

S/D LH: 6/6/2/0/0 or 6/2/2/4/0 ?

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6/2/2/4/0 is a very outdated build but at one point was meta. 6/4/2/2/0 with Arcane Lightning and Piercing Shards is strictly better in terms of DPS after the ferocity patch, using the same rotation for any conjure as long as you budget your Arcane skill usage.

The reason why I recommend 6/6/2/0/0 for LH builds is that I’ve found very nice rotations (listed in my guides) that capitalize the most on extra little things like Electric Discharge procs as well as your Scepter Air 2 skill, Lightning Strike, that enable you further boost your DPS.

For other conjures, the standard 6/6/2/0/0 is relatively low personal DPS compared to a lot of other builds but brings both Persisting Flames for permafury as well as Weak Spot to get 25 vuln when fiery rushing and a decent amount of vuln with frostbow 4. It’s very hard to maintain to 25 vuln on a boss without an engi in party or with fewer than 2 party members with vuln-on-crit skills and FGS/FB, so that’s why I still recommend 6/6/2/0/0 for general conjure use. If for some odd reason you DON’T need persisting flames, 5/5/2/2/0 with fire camping (best) or water camping (okay) traits is a pretty strong build where getting Weak Spot doesn’t hurt your personal DPS portential. Similar trait distributions such as 5/4/0/5/0, 5/2/2/5/0, and 2/5/2/5/0 (all water camp) are strictly worse in terms of FGS/FB DPS, but I didn’t stumble upon how to maximize 5/5/2/2/0’s potential until a month or two after I did my last guide revisions.

There are some other, highly specialized conjure builds that can do even higher damage, but they really require organized groups in order to be worth using.

Since a lot of an ele’s power and awesomeness comes from taking the right traits, I usually recommend using a piece or two of more defensive gear (such as knight’s, celestial, or soldier’s) over changing your trait distribution.

(edited by DEKeyzToChaos.7381)

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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Awesome advice in your videos and thread. I checked your youtube a while back after the ferocity changes to see whether or not I was doing what I needed to be doing properly and pretty much the only difference that I really found was that I tended to prefer keeping fresh air regardless D/F or S/F, but that’s because I’m not that fast at changing traits. :<

Scepter-Hammer-Conjurer-FreshAir is a pretty solid setup because you can get to your preferred attunement (Air) whenever you want and make use of extra Electric Discharge procs. I think I wrote down the rotation down somewhere, or if not, I’ll include it in the next edition of the guide.

One thing that I usually say though is that I personally don’t think it’s worth getting scholar on an ele unless you’re running dungeons with organised groups that perform well on a consistent basis… After asking Nike to help me decide on strength vs scholar for my ascended set on my ele, it only reinforced my suspicion that scholar might not be ideal for my purposes since I usually solo Arah or pug (he worked it out for 662 to be approximately 7% better DPS in scholar over strength in optimal conditions).

Yeah, at full scholar’s buff uptime, Strength is only about 7-8% worse than Scholar’s without factoring extra might (so it will be more like 3-7% worse if you are using that extra might). For soloing, I pretty much always use my Strength set with a sigil of strength and can keep up 20+ might as long as I’m not interrupting my rotation too much. Staff eles lose the most by using strength runes as they stack the least might innately. And as a reminder for others reading the thread, Flame Legion runes are a good budget-conscious runeset for all weapon sets.

I have a question from the perspective of the fury-bot. When running that I typically have been doing a Lightning Hammer build, with FGS as my elite.

My question is one of efficiency. I pre-stack might/fury for bosses … I assume I should hang onto FGS until it runs out, rather than wall-rushing and then dropping it for LH? I find if there’s another ele they also are usually running FGS and so there are no real fire fields to blast with the hammer chain. Relying on someone other than another ele in PUGS for fire fields seems a non-starter.

I am still very new to the dungeon scene so I’d appreciate insight.

FGS is actually pretty mediocre if you aren’t rushing, especially if you don’t have might. If four of you are using FGSs (with two eles in party), I would recommend dropping it after your second or third rush to re-stack might and then pull out another conjure if no one else is re-stacking might by then. The rationale behind this is that the three other people FGSing with might will do more than enough damage to make up for you dropping your FGS. If only two of you are using FGS’s, I would hold onto it as long as your targets are nicely positioned – as soon as it moves off the wall, drop FGS to re-stack because you need pretty good rushes and whirls (like 70% of strikes connect) for an unmighted FGS rotation to be more DPS than your normal LH rotation.

Announcing Fall 2014 Dungeon Speed Clear Open

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

In the scheme of things, an event this small does not take much organization. Having multiple decision makers would unnecessarily bog down the organization process. Sure [DnT]‘s name is on this, but Nike is the head organizer and doesn’t pass all of his decisions to a guild committee to discuss – and I think his way of doing things works just fine.

I’m unhappy that people feel like their feedback was not taken into account, but there were avenues to provide it on the game forums and on the DnT guild forums. Additionally, people mailed Nike their opinions on the tournament, what was great, and what can go better next time. A lot of great rule changes and format changes came from those discussions, including:

  • No restricted team comp
  • Rezzing allowed
  • Less “downtime” between dungeons facilitated by an automated path picking system
  • Centralizing rules enforcement and timing under gwscr to minimize [DnT] involvement in match winner determination
  • Fixing the size of windows when Nike is streaming two teams

After all the feedback, Nike then sent a draft of the new rules to leaders of prominent speed clearing guilds for feedback.

I, for one, still would like some sort of big penalty for a team wipe, but that didn’t make it into this ruleset. Do I complain to Nike and say, “My opinion wasn’t listened to!”? No, I am happy to support him as he has taken the lead on this cat herding endeavor and is doing a kick-kitten job (kicking kittens is bad, kids, don’t do it or you make me cry q.q). He is happy to do the work, so if he doesn’t want my help I just stay out of the way and enjoy NOT having to do something myself to get it done.

I expect we will again solicit feedback at the conclusion of the next tournament. If some people get together and say, “We want to host the next tournament instead of [DnT],” I’m sure [DnT] would be happy to support in any way we can instead of complaining that the next tournament doesn’t have our name on it. For once I’d be able to participate, assuming I agree with the rules

Announcing Fall 2014 Dungeon Speed Clear Open

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AC P2 still bugs. Arah Story ban added.

Announcing Fall 2014 Dungeon Speed Clear Open

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381


[DnT] and Gwscr.com Present:
Dungeon Speed Clear Open Fall 2014

Current tournament bracket
Official artwork Imgur gallery by Brazil

The Teams

Teams will register with five members and up to three alternates. Prior to, or during, the tournament, an alternate may take the place of any player who is unavailable however the replaced player may not rejoin the team later. Prize support for the teams will be distributed assuming five players.

Registration

The tournament will have open registration for interested teams. Guilds may fill multiple teams if they have sufficient members; however the additional teams must use a different designation. Only one team per guild will be able to utilize the GWSCR ranking of the guild for seeding, as described below. Register in the official registration thread at the DnT website.

Initial seeding, as well as any necessary byes, will be based on the gwscr.com guild leaderboard. Cut off for the seeding will be the close of registration, any change in the leaderboard after registration occurs will not alter the seeding or bye distribution.

The Format

The teams will be paired up prior to each round for a best of three dungeon path speed run contest. The three paths for the round will be selected at random from the pool of eligible dungeon paths. No team will be required to run a specific path two rounds in a row.

The teams will begin their run at a synchronized time using time.gov. The team which finishes the path with the lowest time will be the winner of that path. The first team to win two paths advances to the next round.

The runs will be broadcast live on Twitch.tv. At least one member of each team must be able to stream in order for a team to participate.

The dungeon runs will be regulated and timed according to the Guild Wars Speed Clear Records www.gwscr.com restricted rule set.

If a team causes – intentionally or otherwise – a scripted event to bug a dungeon and prevent further progress or to unfairly advance progress, that team will be disqualified and their opponents will get a win for that path. In order to prevent excessive “unintentional” script bugs from occurring, the following paths are banned: Ascalonian Catacombs Path 2, Sorrow’s Embrace Path 2. Additionally, Arah Story is banned due to its length. Other paths which have script bugs have known workarounds to avoid the bug.

Final judgement for any disputed results or questions will rest with Guild Wars Speed Clear Record staff.

The tournament will be a two day event with the preliminary rounds held Saturday, September 27 and the conclusion held Sunday, September 28.

Questions or Help

Should you have any questions regarding any aspect of the tournament, please post them in the official tournament thread on the Death and Taxes forum.

If you would like to donate prize support (gems, gold, gemstore items) please contact the event host in game @ (nike porphyrogenita.8137) or via the DnT forums.

(edited by DEKeyzToChaos.7381)

Elementalist Skill Data

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Conjure strengths are added as comments. I did some PvE testing, but I wish we have level 80, 2600 armor dummies somewhere. The Flamewall typo fix didn’t get propagated to that spreadsheet but I will fix it now, and I will check Hurl tonight. Thanks Zel!

Elementalist Skill Data

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Updated my spreadsheet to include coefficients and theoretical weapon strength for all conjures. Still missing cast times for Earth Shield, but I would be surprised if anyone actually wants them.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApxtWkBqYzjwdFowa1dVVkFUV3hkRms3X3hzOXBuZWc&usp=sharing

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

None. I excluded the start up time and assumed average for all variables. I don’t think the startup will affect the end dps number enough to be a concern when talking about 30s timeframe. However, to be sure I’m in a process of adjusting my spreadsheet to account for the rotations, and hopefully even give me a graph of dps as the time goes on. Will let you know if I come up with something different.

Now, the vuln thing. Mind Slash/Gash both have 5s base vuln duration. Add 30% from 6pts into domination = 6.5s vuln. Unshakable halves the duration making it 3.25s. Vuln applied every 2.48s = 1.31 average stacks. Vuln applied twice in that timeframe (slash+gash) = 2.62 average vuln stacks. Did I miss something?

Start up time is about 4ish seconds (3 phantasms + signet), so that’s a pretty hefty chunk of a 30 second time frame. Additionally, I chose to use Blurred Frenzy off CD instead of continuing autoing, so I used 9 Mind Slash/Gash during the remainder of that time interval. 18*5*1.3/(2*30) = 1.95. Without BF I got 10 Slash, 9 Gash, so it seemed worth it to use it.

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Hmm, something is off. 6/4/0/0/4 mes providing 1.95 vuln? With unshakable I’m calculating that to be 2.62 vuln.

Also, what’s the enemy armor? Because at 2.6k with 1 sw & 1 warden at 0 might my dps number is 20.6% less than the one used in the OP. If I make that 2 sw & 1 warden then they do match however, if I add in 25 might (thought some may start questioning the “realistic” aspect of that setup) then my number becomes 4.7% higher than one in OP. Something telling me the stat scaling is being calculated differently than how it should be.

Calculations were done at 25 might, which is realistic for many party compositions. The 0 might estimates are done with a linear approximation while I get those numbers together. What rotation did you use to calculate your DPS and vuln?

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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30/25 works fine in groups since it actually applies decent vuln unlike pure gs. I just want to see the actual dps difference between strength and scholar in the group situation.

Dude, do you even read your guild’s forums?

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13612527-strength-runes-vs-scholar-groups-solo

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

That’s a lot of works into it Dek but you can do it while sleeping.
Questions for you, Dek:
1) How do you determine best rotation of a class? through programming like a bubble sort or by experience?
2) Is it hard to modify your spreadsheet for different purpose like pvp or WvW? I’m not going to do this for GW2 but I have Camelot Unchained in mind (I’m their serious backer). I would like to see how you structure your spreadsheet (if I can) so I can model it for CU but I can also start at ground zero, if you can give me some quick tips.

Good work, Dek.

1) For most classes, it’s by my or others’ experience. For example, I don’t know much about necros or engis (but I am learning), so I used rotations published by others. For eles, it is well-spreadsheeted.
2) It could be used for different builds/gear/rotations with enough tweaking. The general process is: after recording a 30 second rotation, I input in my calc attack coefficients and modifiers for each weapon strength used in the rotation, tally up seconds duration of each condition (or determine average seconds from procs by on-crit condition applications), determine base attributes for a given level of might, build, and party buffs, and then optimize for total non-vuln DPS over a few choices of armor/food/runes/sigils.

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

I’m assuming this also doesn’t factor in defiance’s affect on vulnerability?

I only calculate vuln assuming defiance. A rough estimate vs. enemies without defiance would be the number you see x2.

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Mesmer isn’t terrible.

I think it assumes full phantasms and no ramp-up for phantasms and no phantasm death. This is not possible in most situations

Ramp up is included, phantasm death is not. DPSing without dodging at all is not possible in most 30 second battles, as well – but I assume such a scenario.

Dungeon group [DPS Calculator]

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Excellent work by queicherius.2563 to visualize all of the information. We have plans to continue development.

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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DEKeyzToChaos.7381

6(V,II,XI)/6(VI,VII,XII)/0/2(IV)/0 was a significant step for conjure DPS builds but is still inferior to 6(V,VI,XI)/6(VI,VII,XII)/2(VI)/0/0 or 6(V,VI,XI)/6(VI,VII,XII)/0/2(VI)/0 because you have 2 10% modifiers (one from fire attunement, one from earth/water line traits).

Did they change how Blasting Staff works with Meteor Shower? Previously it would make each meteor larger but leave the area over which they are dispersed the same, resulting in an additional 2 hits on a player character-sized hitbox, so the DPS loss from taking Blasting Staff over a 10% modifier was pretty small.

I want to caution people against saying “Oh I have to get the conditional 20% modifier because I want big numbers” when in fact a more global 10% modifier will often produce more consistent results. If you can keep two 10% modifiers active instead of one 20% modifier, then your EP is higher anyway.

Maximum DPS ele weapon

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

As I said before, the main difference is that S/F doesn’t need comet to efficiently stack might, so it uses high DPS blasts throughout. Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix are really that OP, with a combined coefficient of 5.45, while Comet + Frozen Burst only have a coefficient of 1.19. Moreover, DT should be cast before flamewall, so you actually have more time to stack might inside the fire field with S/F than you would with D/F. You could opt to skip Comet+FB with D/F for higher DPS, but you’d only be able to fit in one LH chain in that same amount of time.

Another difference is builds. Aircamp Scepter builds generally take Air VII + Air X, while D/F usually takes Air X + Air XII. The extra crit damage helps.

[Guide] DPS Elementalist for PvE

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

I wanted to throw a “thank you!” out to DEKeyz for this thread. I recently came back to GW2 after about a 2 year break. I had been running a D/D Evasive Arcana build, but was having a lot of trouble trying to get the might stacking with that build working the way I remembered once I came back. I am now having a lot of fun with the D/F builds you describe here and in your YouTube video.

I miss Earthquake, but I am liking Flamewall a lot better than the current Ring of Fire, so it’s overall a nice change from how I used to play.

Welcome back! The reason why D/D EA now doesn’t work as well as it did at launch is that EA has been nerfed so that only the roll in Earth is a blast finisher and each effect is on a 10 second cooldown (so you can’t double-dodge in earth for two back-to-back blasts). You also missed the addition of Fresh Air, which was a great buff to MH dagger builds including 6-6-2-0-0 D/D. It’s not exactly meta, but it’s not bad DPS – especially on your own.

Does Lingering Elements work with damage %?

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

I fully support whatever you say in this thread in the context of the originally posed question, Zel

Thanks, I think this lost cause will need all the support it can get. We should do a charity PvE tournament to raise awareness!

And get Anet to donate prizes! Oh wait…

Does Lingering Elements work with damage %?

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

I fully support whatever you say in this thread in the context of the originally posed question, Zel

Staff vs S/D Hammer (PvE)

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

It will be in the guide in due time. Sooo much information to revise x.x

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Yeah, if you’re zerging in WvW then stacking is a good way to boost your DPS since it’s an additive bonus. It’s also decent in open world map completion because you won’t be entering instances and resetting your stacks frequently. Just be careful when trying to get vistas!

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

D/F is fine, and going D/F+LH for PUGs is a nice, safe way to go at the expense of a couple blast finishers (or if you use those blasts, some DPS – note that the D/F burst combo I listed did not include any of your blasts in water). I personally enjoy the playstyle of D/F as well (okay, I enjoy all of them except maybe staff because it’s boring). My point above with burst number isn’t so much that D/F is bad as much as it is that Scepter burst is pretty solid and shouldn’t be overlooked.

D/F Fire 4 into a wall gives you a coefficient of either 2.4 or 3.6 (plus the flame burst at the end) if a mob were to stand in it, so yes, it is very powerful and greatly boost D/F DPS. I assume 0.6 (plus burst) for my general calculations since a lot of small bosses will only be hit by an average of one tick per second if they’re moving around. By that same logic, Burning Retreat on staff into a wall would also greatly improve staff burst – going from an unwalled coefficient of 0.8 to a walled coefficient of about 4.8 (going by the wiki).

In a lot of situations even with group pulls, there’s a boss, vet, or some sort of tougher mob mixed in that will require the extra single-target DPS of a Lightning Strike, so I think it’s valid to include. Fire Grab does have the long CD which is problematic, but even swapping that out for OH focus gives you another viable burst rotation with more blasts ready to go.

That number (11,580 DPS) was calculated with the D/F auto. Since unwalled D/F burst is slightly lower than unwalled scepter burst, D/F hammer is more like 12.3k DPS under 25 might/vuln, fury, banners, consumables but only cleaves for 11.5k. Again, with Scepter you stack might and do crazy damage, but with Dagger you don’t get to do both at the same time. The other builds also tend to take Arcane Lightning instead of Fresh Air for higher cleave damage.

Staff vs S/D Hammer (PvE)

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Copypasta’d from sticky:

S/D with conjurer:
Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – ArBr – Phoenix – Air – Lightning Strike – RtL – Conjure LH – AA x3 – ArW – AA x21 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – RtL – Fire – Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – ArBr – Phoenix – Fire Grab – Pick up LH – AA x3 – ArW – AA x6 – Air – AA x15 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – RtL

S/F Conjurer
Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Earth – ArBr – Mag Wave – Water – Comet – Conjure LH – Air – AA x6 – ArW – AA x 18 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – Fire – Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Water – ArBr – Comet – Earth – Mag Wave – Pick Up LH – AA x6 – ArW – AA x3 – Air – AA x15 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – Fire

Not so copypasta, still experimental:
Non conjurer rotations intended for organized-ish groups
S/D non-conjurer rotation: Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – Arcane Brilliance – Phoenix – Air Attune – Lightning Strike – Conjure LH – LH Chain – Arcane Wave – LH Chain x4 – Drop Conjure – Ride the Lightning – Lightning Strike – Fire Attune – Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – Fire Grab – Phoenix – Pick up LH – LH Chain – Arcane Brilliance – LH Chain x2 – Air Attune – LH Chain x2 – Drop Conjure – Lightning Strike – Ride the Lightning – Arcane Wave

S/F non-conjurer rotation (needs Fire VII): Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Earth Attune – Arcane Brilliance – Magnetic Wave – Air Attune – Lightning Strike – Conjure LH – LH Chain x4 – Arcane Wave – LH Chain – Drop Conjure – Lightning Strike – Fire Attune- Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Pick up Conjure – LH Chain x3 – Arcane Brilliance – LH Chain x2 – Drop Conjure – Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Earth Attune – Magnetic Wave

Conjured weapon "hopefully easy redesign"

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

i still think the best solution (which i’ve suggested a 100 times now) is for the conjure to replace only 1 element not 4, ie: FGS replaces the 5 skills of fire but you can freely change attunements and then come back to fire and the 5 FGS skills.

I don’t see conjures ever working in their current form, as losing 21 skills and the class’ core mechanic for the gain of only 5 skills is a really bad tradeoff.

So you want to be able to use fiery rush and fiery whirl every 13 seconds in a rotation? That doesn’t sound ridiculously unbalanced at all.

Staff vs S/D Hammer (PvE)

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Build rationales:

  • 6-2-2-4-0 is super outdated. Ever since the ferocity patch 6-4-2-2-0 with management of your arcane skills is superior EP and DPS. Even with only an OH dagger fire field, you can maintain 70% Arcane Lightning uptime, and if you have multiple fire fields in your group or other people with blasts you can maintain 100% uptime. When doing DPS calcs, 6-4-2-2-0 with 70% ArL uptime still beat 6-2-2-4-0.
  • 6-6-2-0-0 Air-Fire camping is the build I’d recommend for the first ele in a group. It is weaker for pure FB/FGS damage, but you can get better DPS in LH rotations from Electric Discharge procs as well as sneaking in Lightning Bolt and RtL. There’s also the Fresh Air variant which abuses Electric Discharge procs for even higher single target DPS, but its cleave damage is lower.
  • 5-4-0-5-0 was my best effort at a DPS build that still lets you dodge. I’ve pretty much moved past water camping, though. Additionally, Nike’s and my research has been showing that every class should take their vuln trait in non-FGS situations. Multiplier is 1.1*1.05*1.1*1.2*(1.01^3)=1.5708 plus arcane lightning.
  • 5-5-2-2-0, which you’ll see more of when I update my guide, favors fire and grabs as many other non-attunement modifiers as possible. So you have a multiplier of 1.1*1.1*1.05*1.1*1.1 = 1.5373 (+ Arcane Lightning). It has weak spot, 50 precision and ferocity, and some condi dmg over 5-4-0-5-0. The LH rotations end up being higher DPS because you more or less camp fire all the time.
  • Similarly, people have started using 6-6-0-2-0 Tempest Defense + Water camp for pure conjure damage with vuln. This has an average multiplier of 1.1*1.05*1.2*1.2 = 1.6632 while the enemy is frozen with FB5. A slightly higher modifier version is 6-6-2-0-0 TD + Fire for a multiplier of 1.1*1.1*1.05*1.2*1.1 = 1.6771 on frozen enemies. Also, this particular 6-6-2-0-0 works very well with firestaff.

The downside for fire-camping builds is that you’ll be restricted in the number of blasts you can use in prestacking before using FB or FGS if no one else can provide a fire field.

I guess one of the things that I should stress more are the rotations. While the EP of two builds may be the same, one could potentially have much higher DPS from a different rotation. EP is a pretty good indicator of pure FB/FGS damage, though. People like camping water because it’s easy and it gives big numbers, even though it’s often not the highest DPS option – those options, however, take a little bit more work to play well.

Regarding staff vs. LH – Staff rotations are higher DPS than LH rotations when fully buffed by like 500 DPS. Depending on your build, a LH rotation can do between 13-14k DPS while a staff rotation is like 13.5-14.5k with warrior banners, might, fury, vuln, ascended gear, and consumables. For comparison, a warrior is about 12-12.5K DPS and I’m working on thief but I’m pretty confident that backstab spamming will out DPS eles.

I kinda skimmed the thread since I checked it late, so please ask any questions that I may have missed.

(edited by DEKeyzToChaos.7381)

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Aww geez, the forum ate my reply that I attempted to post a couple days ago.

Would you choose Sigil of Bloodlust or Forge for sub-level 80 dungeons? Considering both FGS and non-FGS scenario?

Um… maybe for SE P2 and Aetherpath but that’s about it. AC as well if you can tag all the little spiders at the start, and CoE 2/3 during the laser defense if you’re good at tagging.

You need about 15-20 stacks to equal the effect of a Force sigil. So over the course of a dungeon you’ll need to get above 20 stacks pretty quickly to see the benefit – which is a lot harder to do now that you can’t double stack.

Hello, did the nerf on strengh runes change anything ? Or they’re still worth taking over scholar ?

I’d say they’re still worth it if you’re an LH ele and the only ele in the group or if you’re soloing. In both cases, your group is usually might deficient, so the amount of group DPS your runes add through that extra might makes up for the personal DPS you lose from choosing Strength over Scholar. If you play in multi-ele groups then your Strength runes may be unnecessary.

Current State of the Elementalist?

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

I was responding to the poster above who made a claim about Lich Form Necros without evidence.

The general method I use is described by Nike on reddit, which Zelyhn summarized very well. For non-ele DPS calculations I usually use either 30 second or 60 second rotations to match up with Nike’s method. For ele DPS calcs I use repeatable rotations because my tools for calculating ele DPS are much more advanced due to the cast time data we have.

Current State of the Elementalist?

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Tests for DPS and burst have been performed in the past (I know yski just did burst), and Eles maintain the highest DPS combos and burst damage of every class in the game.

Necros contest this when in Lich form having a very easy 16-17k damage per second value, however the cooldown rules this out as impractical in most cases, and warriors/thieves are pretty even in 2nd/3rd/4th depending on their builds. This is followed usually by guards, mesmers, engineers, and then rangers in dead last.

Your post started out so well then it just went straight to lol land.

Yeah, I’m pretty skeptical. I only calculated Lich Form to be 14k DPS (link#). Engis can potentially be as high DPS as warriors under perfect conditions but I don’t have enough experience to say how that is in practice. Mesmers can be lower than or higher than Guard DPS depending on builds, assumptions, and time frame. Could you give me links to your references?

Where is the reference for this 16-17k range for lich form as well as this ranking?

Maximum DPS ele weapon

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Against the Chanter mobs at Cliffside’s Chest Seals, I would prefer them to BURN fast, clean and no cinders linger. As such, the scepter/x rotation would be terribly long and has much slower turnover. Staff has burning retreat as another burst, and D/F has 2 blast finishers in water attunement, one of them has short CD.

Lightning strike doesn’t work against a group of trash, anyways

You still don’t have me convinced. Frozen burst has a coefficient of < 0.5, Comet <0.8, making them very weak DPS. Run some DPS tests and get back to me with numbers.

Edit: Zel no helping her!

(edited by DEKeyzToChaos.7381)

Lava Font, casting as intended?

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

Send a bug report and see what happens. They’ve been on a tooltip fixing spree in the past few months.

Lava Font, casting as intended?

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Posted by: DEKeyzToChaos.7381

DEKeyzToChaos.7381

It’s had a 0.2 cast time and 0.2 aftercast time for a very long time. I think a while ago it was 0.4 cast time, 0.2 aftercast.