Guild Wars 2

pzyonix.1645:

To me, it is, with all respect, the unforgiving mass of players that don’t want to assist new players into the game, so that one day they have the same skill as the one kicking them from party. The elitists in diva behaviour, AP-checkers, the verbally abusive towncriers and commanders obey-me-or-uninstall folk, that are pretty much making every map or event, unwelcoming for the new and uninteresting for the veterans.

No. Just no.

Look at DnT’s website and youtube channels. Full of guides and videos. Look at [rT]. Comprehensive class guides on dulfy. [KING]. Videos. Wethospu. GW2Dungeons.net. Dungeon Mentors [Noob] guild. This community is all about helping others improve. They just won’t take it. Then the excuses responses we get when offering help in game too:

“Man it’s just a game stop taking it so seriously”
“Kitten off with your stupid advice”
“I didn’t ask for help you kittening kittenkitten”
“You think you’re better than me, giving me advice?”
“I play how I want”

This game caters to a casual crowd. It’s okay, we get that. They may not enjoy playing with us, and some of them have yet to realize a lot of the more dedicated players won’t enjoy playing with them.

We say, okay, we’ll establish our group as not casual, and they’re free to have/start their more casual groups too.
They say, OMG DISCRIMINATION CALL 911 CALL YOUR LAWYER CALL OBAMA

Translation: I like the double edged sword of exclusivity and limited content because I am not affected by it.

10/10

Ayrilana.1396:

Before: 10 achievements = 10 AP
Now: 3 achievements = 10 AP

Before: Normal gameplay = 5-8AP
Now: Normal gameplay = 0 AP (unless you enjoy PvP/WvW)

Which one is better? Hmmm….

Some players seem to prefer the old system without much/any enforced grind.

The achievements take 10 minutes at most to do enough for your daily.

0 minutes of grind > 10 minutes of grind

The rest of your continued post is acknowledged as repeated efforts to make the situation black-and-white, and ignoring it as it merits no further reply.

PS: I’m not much of a PvE person anymore so I’ll just preemptively shut down any attempt to call out bias from my end.

mathras.2450:

I’ve asked you before to stop trying to derail this thread. Why are you continuing to do so? This is about karma training – not a single guild. Yet you’re coming in here with very defensive comments – it seems a little suspicious.

If you have something to add to the discussion, be my guest. Perhaps you could offer a solution to the problem at hand? Decreased rewards for capturing objectives, or diminishing returns? Or as I suggested in the original post – if Anet intends this to be a PvE map, they could remove the ability to kill other players?

Thanks

As I and others have said, your thread got derailed long before my posts and this thread already should be closed.

As far as your second point goes, I’ll bite. Since this game is not in a growing phase, I don’t agree with proposals to nerf anything (unless they are counterbalanced by other buffs). As far as a solution goes, I think it would need to be making other aspects of the game more viable.

The EotM ktrain is done for 4 reasons: karma, dragonite, WXP, and XP. In fact, many players feel “forced” into EotM, especially when they are doing it for karma and dragonite.

Karma training requires that karma is needed in quantity, and that specific ways of obtaining it are vastly superior to other ways. One solution to this issue is to introduce it to PvP, buff it for map exploration/completion, and reintroduce it for doing dungeons. Another solution might be the removal of karma altogether.

Dragonite comes from WvW/EotM keeps and world bosses (many of which drop just 3-5). To clear the dragonite farmers out of EotM, perhaps the lesser world bosses should drop 10-15. Alternatively, reward dragonite when a keep is defended, in addition to it being flipped and reflipped.

Experience comes very fast through events in EotM. Dungeons are still nice but they have been heavily nerfed. Boss chests from dungeons are now once a day. Karma from them has been virtually eliminated. World completion rewards cannot compare either. There are various methods to address this.

• Tomes of Knowledge could be more widely available outside of sPvP.
• Boss chests from dungeons could be reverted.
• Map completion rewards could give enough experience overall to provide 5-10 levels on completing a map, rather than 2-3.

WXP is also obtained in EotM, but I don’t see anything wrong with that at the moment.

tl;dr: Guild Wars 2 is no longer a growing game. Rather than nerfing ways to level and gain progression, other areas need to be buffed so people do not feel bottlenecked into content they may honestly rather not do.

It’s okay guys, ANet heard your complaints and will add more “achievements” to choose from!

• Go to Queensdale and yell “I LOVE ANET!!” in map chat. Additional Writ of Experience for extra exclamation points

• Open up any crafting window and stare at it for 5 minutes. Blinking not allowed.

• Mail 1 copper to someone not on your friend’s list. Bonus karma if they reply to you in all caps

• Go to any enemy in PvP or WvW and mash your skills 1234567890 in order. Extra reward track progress if it downs them

Chameleon Dude.1564:

So it’s even easier and completely free to get a character to 80 without understanding any of their skills and traits? No thank you. If you want to play a new character so much, actually play them.

How is it “completely free”? 28 gold and 260 skill points to unlock what used to be given (this is not even counting the XIII traits). How are new characters learning these things when they don’t even get to use them…? If you want to talk about how free it is, maybe we can remove these pointless locks?

I used to be okay with allowing lvl 40’s into dungeons because at least they would have access to every major trait. Now major traits come at 60 (grandmaster 80), characters don’t get initial access to any of them, and trait points are backloaded to the late 70s. Why even include a lvl 70 when it’s clear he has no grandmaster traits and probably missing a key major or two?

If we’re going to put all these locks on new characters, can we at least speed up leveling so these players don’t get excluded from stuff even more/longer?

JustTrogdor.7892:

root.9415:

If you are doing map completion in wvw while the maps have queues, you will rightfully be told to GTFO.

Other than that I see no problem with people doing map completion, have fun!

Players doing map completion in WvW, even during queues, have just as much right to be there as anyone else since it is indeed required for map completion. If you don’t like that perhaps you should lobby for removal of WvW from the map completion requirement.

You have the right to do map completion in WvW. You do not have a right to be shielded from being (correctly) told that you are a liability for the server.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

DaveGan.8065:

Sinbold.8723:

Wow, I just read the Reddit post linked above. Someone actually admits to violating the ToS by using match manipulation? Mass reporting a defender is also against the ToS. Defending is not a reportable offense. My jaw is still in my lap.

Neither is griefing Boss Blitz runs. Or intentionally killing QD champs out of order. Or reaching for thinly veiled excuse and kicking people at the end of dungeons. Joining rated PvP matches using troll builds and trying 10% is also not against the ToS.

Looking that the post history of yesterday’s OP (ANet deleted thread) will reveal at least the one of the above, as well as a general motive.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/unicorngirl-1487/showposts

Defending is not a reportable offense, but reporting for trolling/griefing motive is not uncalled for.

Will you fault casuals with a sore in their rear who report people for requiring lvl 80s and zerker meta for dungeons too? They feel it goes against the spirit of the game, so they report it. We disagree with their feelings but we can see some validity in coming to that conclusion.

If people feel the motive is not defending but griefing/trolling then why can’t they report and let ANet sort it out?

So you are ok with what is going on?

I would not encourage people to do it on a mass scale, but I don’t see a problem with it if the people doing it are feeling trolled/griefed. Reporting =/= ban.

UPDATE: I just talked to Elaina himself and he’s confused as hell. It seems someone made a reddit account, impersonated him, and made stuff up.

3 PvP matches a day…unlock more with points!
30 minutes in WvW a day…unlock more with points!
3 daily rewards per week…unlock more with points!
3 dungeon paths per day…unlock more with points!
3 world boss chests per day…unlock more with points!

Out of points? Earn more with MOMMY’S CREDIT CARD! Now accepting BITCOINS!

Remember guys, you’re a filthy casual unless you sub. Who plays more than 3 pvp matches a day anyways? It’s like you enjoy Skyhammer or something

#$$$$$420YOLOSWAGKFCWATERMELON$$$$$

The people who claim to have seen so many bad guilds and/or bad groups should realize that the one single thing always present in every one of those situations is themselves.

naiasonod.9265:

This idea is utter rubbish and I’m not sure you should be allowed to play with others with a viciously punitive attitude like that.

AFK leechers (perhaps you are one of them given your unnecessarily strong reaction) and the current tagging system that emphasizes quantity over quality are the reason this game can’t get new content that isn’t a massive loot pinata.

That’s okay guys! Arenas are one thing, but hotjoin is like the EotM of PvP. You get PvP rewards for not really doing PvP!

You can get your daily done in a few easy steps! No PvP experience required. In fact, the worse you are, the easier it’ll be!

1.) Get on one of the two classes you’re supposed to win a match on.
2.) Find a lopsided hotjoin match. The more lopsided the better (but winning team cannot have 400+ points yet)
3.) Try to cap a point. If you get attacked you can either fight back, or just close your eyes if it’s too intensely competitive.
4.) Wait for people to leave the match
5.) Press the “Volunteer” button when teams get too imbalanced. It comes up for everyone
6.) Enjoy your PvP win! And rank points! And hopefully you capped something too! 10AP WOOOOOOOOOOO!

Are you worried about not having the proper traits or gear? Don’t even bother! The more useless you are, the faster your teammates will leave and spawn the Autobalance Volunteer button!

I posted this in some other thread earlier today, but as it seems a lot of people are don’t like the new daily system and are intimidated by PvP, I’ll put this up in its own thread.

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

WvW. Training wheels. Solos.

But guess what? When I’m forming for a dungeon run, I want neither WvWers, solo condi builds, nor people on training wheels.

Vayne.8563:

What you really need to do is join a helpful guild and go in together, instead of trying to solo everything. (coughs).

But Vayne, I’m an entitled casual who supports ANet through the gem store so these hardcore players with no real life anyways should be dropping everything to carry me through stuff!

Ayrilana.1396:

Exactly what would you lose if you did not do the daily achievement period? It takes much less time to get 10 AP than it did before the update. AP is the only reward now for doing the 3 dailies as the laurels and random gem store items got moved to the daily login reward system. If you did not go out of your way before to get all of the AP prior to the update, it’s reasonable safe to assume that AP is not really that important to you. Especially that it seems a lot of people liked to casually play the game doing their own thing and get the AP as they played rather than do tasks that directly rewarded the AP.

If don’t care about the AP you get from doing the daily, why are you doing it? If you do care about the AP from the daily, why didn’t you farm them all before the update?

Doing the daily before the update would reward 5 AP as you did 5 achievements that awarded 1 AP each. Now, you can do 3 achievements and get 10 AP. You do a fraction of the achievements that you had to do before and quite a number of those achievements are actually easier and quicker to do than they were before.

That’s some pretty ridiculous black-and-white strawman you’ve got.

He got 5-8 with his “normal play”, and now that same normal play gets him 0. Are you really trying to tell him he has no right to complain about grind since he didn’t grind beyond his normal play before?

OP

• writes giant ranting essay
• passes knee-jerk—and unnecessary—judgment about unrelated issue (dungeon sellers)
• claims to be unbiased and unprovoking he is
• immediately calls any and all dissent biased, abusive, and flaming
• fails to heed (or even acknowledge) most advice given out in this thread
• refuses to join a guild

Nope, it’s certainly not you at all. Definitely us. Definitely…Yep…

Most of us here would and do help newer players. But we will help them on our terms, not theirs. The way you try to guilt trip or demand something you are not at all entitled to…

No offense, but I don’t think you would be missed by many if you erased Windows and never came back here.

Subdue.5479:

Just look at the outrage that’s going on in this thread, and they actually made dailies -easier-.

I think that’s why people are miffed. ANet went and made the things annoying and specifically trivial so the whole activity feels like a grind. Combined with the NPE, it just makes it look like the game is going in a backwards direction.

mathras.2450:

DaveGan.8065:

TheGrimm.5624:

People organizing to avoid fights though, that turns my stomach. Go to some PvE zone if you are completely unwilling to fight.

If only said PvE zones and dungeons weren’t nerfed so hard. If only flipping keeps wasn’t the best (and one of the few) way of obtaining dragonite, and flipping all objectives the best way of obtaining karma. People will optimize whatever can help them get to where they want faster, and EotM is no exception.

Full disclosure: I am in said guild, but I have not gone back to Edge for almost a month since my last alt hit 80. Just like I have zero issue with you defending, I have zero issue with coordinating to avoid fights and maximize rewards. Additionally, if your presence is hindering the progression of people on all sides, I have no issue if they band together to try to stop you. When pressure from defenders is too great, we would take a break or find another overflow. It’s recommended you do the same when your defense keeps getting shut down.

So you’re advocating enemy teams working together to kill members of your own side, because they dare to play the game as intended?

Don’t forget this is a multiplayer game. If you get in the way of people’s progress they will look for a way to run you over or knock you out.

As far as playing as intended, your motives can, will, and should always be called into question. If you’re killing bosses early in Boss Blitz, if you’re throwing down flame rams 1200 units from gates, if you’re deploying 100 ballistas in keeps, if you’re defending in EotM, people will try to determine why you’re doing such a thing.

There is not much ANet can do against trolls, because they can simply fake ignorance and say they’re new. This is why there will always be things outside of the scope of the lettering of the rules. As a result players have some expectation of policing themselves. That’s why the answer to you question is yes, the ends to justify the means.

Now stop crying, get off your fake moral high ground, and learn how to better place your own ACs and other siege.

Linking to a deleted reddit post in your signature of you impersonating someone in [EotM] isn’t helping your image any. Your cherrypicking of this post and complete ignorance of my previous post (written on your request, I might add) is also noted.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Ascended is a long term goal with a less than 5% stat increase.

Can we stop with the misinformation? The ascended weapon alone gives more than 5% dps.

Full ascended is about 9-12% stronger than full exotic. Sure it’s about 5% more stats, but weapon strength >>>>>>> stats.

PS: I don’t mean to single you out individually, but this misinformation is not helpful regardless of good/bad motive.

If you feel someone is negatively impacting your gameplay you absolutely have the right to let them know this and ask them to stop, whether or not it is being done intentionally. It is then that player’s right to decide, with this new information, whether they want to continue to do what they are doing.

It is a player’s right to play as they like. However, it is not a player’s right to be sheltered from being told that their gameplay is negatively impacting those of others.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Dave.2536:

JustTrogdor.7892:

root.9415:

If you are doing map completion in wvw while the maps have queues, you will rightfully be told to GTFO.

Other than that I see no problem with people doing map completion, have fun!

Players doing map completion in WvW, even during queues, have just as much right to be there as anyone else since it is indeed required for map completion. If you don’t like that perhaps you should lobby for removal of WvW from the map completion requirement.

You have the right to do map completion in WvW. You do not have a right to be shielded from being (correctly) told that you are a liability for the server.

Haha okay. You know it is funny. I’ve seen many threads over the years of people complaining about having to do WvW for map completion. One of the most common suggestions aside from waiting for a map to flip is to ask for help in WvW. I guess those suggestions were wrong.

If you think telling people to get lost or how ever else you want to phrase it is helpful for the community then go for it. There is one way to keep people from coming back to maybe benefit their server later in WvW, and that is to insult them and tell them to go away.

Yes, when the map is queued and people are doing useless things they’re going to be asked to be useful or go away. Feelings may be hurt. Sorry not sorry.

Perhaps all those “ask the commander to help you cap something” replies need to be appended with “please don’t make selfish individual requests when the map is queued and there are more important things”.

Maybe then we will have fewer black and white straw man arguments as well.

Halthur.9654:

The troll post that I reported. I sure did, next time don’t troll the forums and stay on topic.

Welp, some people choose to take offense to everything. My post should have clued into my opinion of the changes, so badgering me about them served no purpose but to highlight your own reading comprehension.

Enjoy basking in that blind rage oblivious to the true reality around you. Yes, logic is for those loser rational people. Let nothing get in the way of your own narrative!

Langrim.2489:

(paraphrase) I don’t see how MAD applies

Here is where MAD applies. As the (former) instance owner, you would have the power to remove me from the group with seemingly no repercussions. That is, unless I or someone else exercise the nuclear option and blow up the whole instance, including you.

MAD is in effect because we now both have the power to “destroy” each other (although my nuke will cause some more collateral damage). But I will, of course, drop my nuke only when I feel an unjustified kick has reached the level of “probable”, most likely due to what I would (hypothetically) perceive as your growing levels of irrationality.

In other words, MAD has two aspects: 1.) to have both sides be able to guarantee such destructive capability that neither side will want to use such force on the other, and 2.) to actually be willing to follow through on using such force when necessary, to keep the deterrent effect credible

tl;dr—never give two or more people in the group the impression that you are watching them for a reason to kick them, because that just gives them a valid reason to kick you in the name of self-preservation and eliminating drama

250 salvaged, 434 dust (1.73 average)

Slightly lower (but in line with expectations) than 1.844 average I’ve recorded the past 2-3 months (~18k ectos salvaged)

Pino.5209:

Googling as per your adviced, alt-tab out, does break immersion. Asking for help from other players ingame, does not.

And “/wiki [item to look up]?”

Surely the game tabbing itself out to load a web page officially related to and sanctioned by the game is okay too? It’s almost like your character is looking thigs up in his/her own smartphone and the focus is shifting to what he/she sees!

Needs more spectator moas

@Archaon/Geiir/Sampo: PvP is trying to grow its population, not filter and alienate it further. Greatly cutting down or eliminating progression in hotjoins will have the opposite effect. Let’s figure out how to turn hotjoins into a fun and casual PvP environment, but one where learning can happen.

@Sampo: farming custom arenas will be nerfed by reducing the winner-loser gap so the winner gets 400 instead of 300. All the players who originally got the 500 will now get 400.

@Deimos: I think those bonuses may be too much, and would possibly encourage “farming” them. I envisioned that the bonuses would serve to mostly (but not completely) close the gap to the underdog team to reduce the risk. The reward should not exceed 400 unless 1.) a 200 point gap was greatly reduced, or 2.) the underdog team actually won the match.

Here is how I envisioned the comeback bonuses. (I agree these should not be in custom arenas, but only hotjoin)

• Tracked per individual player: must join or be on losing side when down by “significant” amount (100 points). This is so players who bandwagon after the lead is overcome do not get the rewards.
• 25 rank point bonus for reducing the deficit to 50 points (at some point in the match)
• 50 rank point bonus for reducing the deficit to 25 points (at some point in the match)
• 75 rank point bonus for reducing the deficit to 0, but losing in the end
• 100 rank point bonus for reducing the deficit to 0, and winning the match
• Double rewards if deficit began at -200

Example: Red vs Blue, match starts at 3v4/4v5 for most of the round, Red is losing 150-250. Player R5 joins red as the last member to even the match up.

Scenario 1: Red fails to reduce the deficit to 50 and loses, 350-500. All red players get 300 points. Blue players get 400.

Scenario 2: Red reduces the deficit to 0 points at 375-375, but they lose the match 450-500. Red players get 375 points. Blue players get 400.

Scenario 3: Red reduces the deficit to 0 at 375-375, and wins the match 500-460. Red players get 500 points (400 for winning +100). Blue players get 300.

The other thing I think needs to be addressed more is the 3v4/4v5 situation.

On one hand I feel there needs to be a 50 point reward for someone who evens a match from 3v4 or 4v5 while that side is tied or losing. On the other hand, I don’t want players to not join the game to try to get those 50 points. Here is what I have in mind now.

• Reduce the winner-loser reward from 400-300 to 350-250 (taking away 50 points)
• Reward every player with 50 points if the match fills up to 4v4 or 5v5 (but not 5v4) before the first cap or kill of the match.
• Reward a player 50 points for joining the losing side in 4v5 or 3v4 (on top of the comeback bonuses highlighted above) EDIT: would only be valid on the first join

This would be another indirect nerf to custom arena farming, as well as add incentives to join the game early, and help even out the teams. In particular, players who stack would see their reward reduced by 50 points (in addition to the 100 from reducing the win-loss gap), which may push some of them into Solo and Team Queue.

heatherlea.7186:

Treebeard The Swift.9620:

The thing is, i’ve been in quite a few eotm maps with [eotm] commanders

I’m sure you have been, since you are in that guild. So why are you pretending to be impartial in this discussion?

Why does membership in the guild remove his neutrality on analyzing an issue?

How do you even know he’s in the guild? Either you are (or have been) in the roster yourself, or you are grasping for straws. The former would undermine your own impartiality by your logic, and the latter says quite a bit about your motives and credibility.

Additionally, ANet’s removal of your last thread has shown their feelings on the matter.

IndigoSundown.5419:

You assert that I am trying to stifle discussion. I’ll ask you to rethink that accusation.

I do take that back, after seeing your more recent posts. Initially there was quite a bit of skepticism.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Wanze seems to think it could be balanced to not impact anyone except flippers who don’t play the rest of the game. If so, then all well and good.

This may be the source of our disagreement. While you questioned the viability of this, I assumed it to be true for the purposes of the discussion. As a result we were arguing two different things. I think we are closer to the same page than it originally appears.

As far as my own personal views on the subject, I would be more in favor of a more direct DR. Something like a 15% tax for the first 25 gold in transactions, 16% for the next 25 gold, 17% for the next 25%, up to a 20% tax cap.

Wanze mentioned he thought it was slightly off topic, but I do genuinely see his proposal as a sort of soft DR.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Dave.2536:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Dave.2536:

JustTrogdor.7892:

root.9415:

If you are doing map completion in wvw while the maps have queues, you will rightfully be told to GTFO.

Other than that I see no problem with people doing map completion, have fun!

Players doing map completion in WvW, even during queues, have just as much right to be there as anyone else since it is indeed required for map completion. If you don’t like that perhaps you should lobby for removal of WvW from the map completion requirement.

You have the right to do map completion in WvW. You do not have a right to be shielded from being (correctly) told that you are a liability for the server.

Haha okay. You know it is funny. I’ve seen many threads over the years of people complaining about having to do WvW for map completion. One of the most common suggestions aside from waiting for a map to flip is to ask for help in WvW. I guess those suggestions were wrong.

If you think telling people to get lost or how ever else you want to phrase it is helpful for the community then go for it. There is one way to keep people from coming back to maybe benefit their server later in WvW, and that is to insult them and tell them to go away.

Yes, when the map is queued and people are doing useless things they’re going to be asked to be useful or go away. Feelings may be hurt. Sorry not sorry.

Perhaps all those “ask the commander to help you cap something” replies need to be appended with “please don’t make selfish individual requests when the map is queued and there are more important things”.

Maybe then we will have fewer black and white straw man arguments as well.

Who says everyone trying to do map completion is useless? Instead of saying things like, “GTFO” as root so eloquently stated it, maybe invite them along with your blob. Maybe that person doing map completion kills an enemy scout or two along the way if they are roaming solo. Maybe tell them if they see any enemy movements to let the map know. Or you know you could just tell them they are worthless and get nothing out of it at all as they most likely ignore you and go on about their business.

In my opinion, WvW was added to map completion to encourage people to try it. If you are just going to tell people they are a liability, then they are most likely not going to try to help your server win at that time and probably not any time in the near future.

But, if you insist, go about it and belittle people in WvW. I’m sure it does great things for your server’s WvW community.

The people throwing a tantrum in /m because the commander won’t help them on a queued map are worse than useless: they’re detrimental to the server with their drama and taking the attention and focus away from the commander.

It’s comparable to, say, not waypointing when fully dead at a big event and getting others killed as they foolishly try to res.

I honestly don’t think those kinds of people will be missed by the WvW community, but you can continue to try to white knight them in the best made-up narrative you can imagine.

PS: I am nowhere near guilty of any of those things I was defending. I was simply defending others’ rights to do them. Offense is taken, not given, and not every case of hurt feelings will result in the “timeout” that you were threatening people with earlier.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Clueless response is.. just clueless.

Thank you for summarizing your own response so well.

Nobody can make you do something but they are certainly free to ask you to do something else, or let you know that you are dead (or negative) weight.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I apologize if I do come down as passing judgement. Despite my intent I can only agree that I am doing so. I totally agree with the idea argued around the social contract. It is how it should be: a TRUE meritocracy (not possible but we should still strive toward it nonetheless). In fact, I argue the same IRL.

The part where “the end justify the mean”, however, is not something I’m so easily adhering to for a lot of reasons that I will leave aside. Still, I was more interested in empowering ppl in ways that has less negative impact on others. Sure, tanking is a strategy that can achieve a desired result but it has collateral damage to not just other servers, but to yours too. Trying to find fun it the game itself rather than in it’s externalities has less negative impacts for others while aiming for the same goal: fun. It is what I wanted to expressed. I did so poorly, but it was the intent behind it all.

No apology needed, only acknowledgement.

As far as collateral damage is concerned, many on this server felt Dragonbrand as a whole was collateral damage last season. Further, this server felt it would continue to be collateral damage in the next tournament unless it acted to change its fate.

“One step backwards, two steps forward.” This is basically what the server is doing. Many, especially in America, will prematurely dismiss the idea because of its associations with a naive ideology, but its concept is very valid and applicable here.

pdavis.8031:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

ANET officially supports this behavior, unfortunately. Many of us disagree with them, but they actively promote griefing, trolling, stealing of instances, etc etc.

And pray tell how they do that? Dont they have multiple reaponses about this very thing? An that you should report? Werent they working on changing the kick system to help deter these things from happening?

Just because you dont feel they have, or are, taking action doesnt mean they arent,

I think it’s fair to say the red posts here have seemed poor, inadequate, and even forced. I think the period for benefit of the doubt is long gone for ANet when it comes to this matter.

Compare/contrast this with 21 karma weapons?

Those were punished using an obscure catch-all “no exploit” clause. Is this immune to that clause, or is it up to ANet to decide to enforce it somehow?

Indulge me, would you have deliberated with other PUGs aside from the one who seconded to see if they agreed with your assessment AND elect to forfeit their progress?

Quite honestly, I could only ever execute this if there was someone to second the kick, so there would have to be someone who at least roughly agreed. On the other hand, hypothetically, I would immediately assume the role of judge/jury/executioner with zero regret in a state of self-preservation.

If kicking me ends the instance for everyone and forfeit all progress, intolerable as my filthy elitism might be, why would you do it? Spite? I am sorry, this is abominable conduct that I personally abhor to even consider as it accomplishes nothing.

Maybe I needed to spell out Mutually Assured Destruction (M.A.D.)? If ever I reasonably inferred from you that the probability of me being irrationally kicked by you had upgraded to “probable” levels, I would not have hesitated to end the instance, the same way you should not hesitate to leave as the instance owner if your group was full of incompetence and trolling beyond help.

Why? It’s to ensure you never reach that “probable” state of irrationality in the first place. Remember well what I said about limited impunity: it’s not your sole instance forever.

Which sounds like the less aggressive and antagonistic option: Directly addressing one person be it their dps/utility/and other contribution OR stating that “we do not have the dps/experience for X strat”. Seems to me like addressing offenders individually is provoking them to perceive a direct attack where there is none.

The problem with casting blame to a group is that those who it is meant for think it is meant for someone else, and those who it is not meant for begin to think it was meant for them.

The group-wide accusation marks you as incompetent (overreaching to solve something you aren’t able to), irrational (seemingly calling out the whole group on the actions of a few), or a hypocrite (seemingly casting blame away from you toward everyone else).

If I was in the group with you and had executed my own rotations well, I would rather you point specifically to the mesmer (or whatever class) who didn’t execute than to the whole group. If it was me who didn’t execute, I would prefer you either whisper me about it (best) or address me personally in party chat (takes the pressure off everyone else).

If you’re not going to escalate to kicking, then either whisper or don’t judge until after the run. If you’re going to judge people for anything other than attitude, do it by the end of the first major encounter. After that, if you’ve said nothing, you’ve effectively passed them and made them equals with equal investment in your instance.

PS: kicking sellers was indeed backwards, but I don’t think any of that applies to your story. The change did indeed force instance owners to be more civil with their groups or face a lower threshold (it was higher before as it would have been a nuclear option only) for getting kicked themselves. I don’t think this is bad except maybe for the hopelessly socially incompetent, although I suspect your own party behavior may be fairly close to that.

Find an uneven hotjoin match, join either side.

Once autobalance volunteer pops up (it becomes available to everyone), click it. Free win.

The more useless you are the more likely your teammates are to abandon you and trigger the autobalance button.

#hotjoin #workingasintended #newplayerexperience #toohard

Guhracie.3419:

Would you care to suggest how my current clarification is lacking? I’m just not sure how I can make:

I’m also not saying that these words are ignored without context, I’m saying that when they’re slung around as slurs, I’m not going to engage with that post.

indicate what you’re suggesting more clearly.

Well I was not aware of the clarification at the time of my initial post (the one I referenced was something you had stated midway).

While what you have now is clearly better than nothing, I am confused at your initial and current motive now.

• If your main point was that posts with ad hominems should be ignored, your “list” of buzzwords has little place in your initial post other than as trollbait.

• Because you still have this “list” in your post, it is unclear whether or not you believe the mere presence of one of these words is enough to conclude a post is ad hominem.

• If this mere presence of a word is not ad hominem, and the purpose of your post is more about ad hominems, what is the purpose of your “list” that has seemingly stirred up considerable controversy of its own?

• (my personal thoughts) It appears to me that you did originally intend to be dismissive of the words in the list themselves, and your current clarification/stance is somewhat of a backtrack after taking lot of (justified) heat.

Do you even understand why servers like Dragonbrand are tanking? Sorry but no thank you to another WvW tournament like Season 2. #6 in Gold league because other servers managed to out-tanked us on their way to silver. Were it not for the ticket fiasco we wouldn’t even have a weapon skin. This server learned its lesson last season by not tanking hard enough.

This is the kind of mess you get when you have coverage wars, a slow-moving rating system, bandwagon servers, and rewards heavily dependent on performance within a league/matchup.

Leo G.4501:

At least I’m advocating change

You’re talking to someone who’s been following the recent “change” in PvP. Feel free to look at that forum to see the aftermath of that “feature”.

Change itself is not necessarily a good thing. The only time change should happen for the sake of change is when things can’t get any worse. At least in regards to the current issue of elitism and exclusion, the reality is that things can’t get much better than what GW2 has.

Here’s a comparison of the challenges GW2 and some other MMO faces

Most MMOs:

• I can’t do this content because it’s too difficult for PuGs and I don’t have a static group!
• I can’t join a static group because I don’t have 6-12 consistent hours every week to dedicate to raids!
• I can’t do this content because we can’t get a tank!
• I can’t make a tank because gearing even one character is a challenge in this game!
• I can’t join this group because my rotations aren’t smooth enough to pump out the xyz DPS they need to pass the DPS check!

GW2:

• I can’t do this content with this particular group because I chose not to wear zerker gear!
• I don’t want to get zerker gear!
• I don’t want to make my own group!

Vincent.7452:

^Then almost nobody would bother getting 100% map completion in pve to make a legendary weapon because it would take 10 times longer than wvw to complete. We’re talking about 4 maps vs 30+ maps.

Even though you can’t access everything right away in wvw, if you’re patient and/or follow a good commander around you can usually get inside every towers and keeps pretty fast. On my second 100% map completion I completed all 4 wvw map within 4 hours (granted my server was doing amazing and we had control over most of the maps).

So WvW completion can’t be rewarding because you did it quickly? And PvE completion can’t be deemphasized because it was long for you? Nice egocentric logic here. I don’t see anything in your argument that amounts to more than a bitter desire to make everyone go through the same masochistic experience you had.

Consider that you’re asking for qualities (patience, persistence) in WvW that many of the PvErs in this thread do not have when it comes to PvP content and you’ll see why they would be okay with this sort of split. Very many here would much rather go through 60+ PvE maps (2 figts in the hypothetical system) over even 1 WvW map.

Seera.5916:

Kuro Zetsumei.1397:

Fuji.6284:

Seems like you haven’t played enough games to realize how bad communities are out there.

seems like you have trouble with reading, I’m on the GW2 forum to discuss GW2’s issues, not APB’s, LoL’s, battlefields, Call of Duty’s, Sims, My little pony’s or hello kitty online, sorry.

But “nicest” infers a comparison. Which means comparing GW2’s PvP scene to those of other MMO’s is on topic.

There could be three bullies in a school and you could say: “Billy is the nicest of the school bullies.” and not be lying. Billy isn’t nice, but he’s the nicest of the bullies. “Nicest” is a comparative term.

Pretty much stole my line right there lol

The hypocrisy and irony coming from OP is hilarious. Telling others to re-read while unable or unwilling to do self reflection…

inb4 we get called toxic for oppressing his views

Trolling and being/feeling trolled are based on motive and perception, not action. This is not a single player game, and so your actions will bring consequences from the others you affect in the game.

You are being ganged up on because you are a bigger obstacle than the entire other side, and the other side considers you to be a bigger obstacle than everyone else on your side. With this common enemy, why wouldn’t they gang up on you, even if there might be a weakly stated and never enforced rule against it?

It is nice that players can finally do something against those whose motive is to derail. Back when Queensdale and Crown Pavilion were being trolled, there was nothing to be done because there was no kick button and no way to attack other players.

tsawr.7905:

Lose 10 in-a-row? Must be a balance issue and not a lack of skill. Blowout happens, but if it happens consistently then you’d have to figure out that the only consistent thing in each map is you.

I can’t imagine he’s the worst player in the game though, or that he’s so bad that there’s no group of 4 players that could carry him over the worst possible team of 5?

OP’s relative skill can be explained by his losing record. But unless OP is trolling, 0 wins in 10 games says more about the matchmaker than OP’s skill, because I refuse to believe anyone could be that bad.

Nightshade.5924:

Eyia Hellhide.7320:

The most entertaining thread I have read for long time.

And OP, if 20 people here telling you’re wrong and no one supports your point, don’t you think it means you’re wrong, purely statistically?

Seeing as we have NO N U M B E R S to support or deny anything said here, I can safely say NO. A GOOD statistic involves, at a minimum, 10,000 test subjects. Millions is MUCH better. So at a minimum we’re about 9,980 people short of any statistical conclusion.

Rule of thumb: n > 30 is large
Central Limit Theorem

Please don’t misuse statistics and try to confuse everyone by inserting random buzzwords. That’s something to be left to Christians and politicians.

I hope you’re on the opposing team!

Given the skill and experience you’ve displayed with your losing hotjoin record and QQ in this thread, I will happily take my chances against you.

Next up he’ll complain that you didn’t put your high school graduation photo on your profile so he can accuse you of photoshopping out a freckle or making yourself 2 millimeters taller.

I’ll be stalking it too for when he “realizes” your credit card numbers aren’t listed either

pzyonix.1645:

That is just making an exception for non-casuals to be allowed gaming with casuals. Also… a casual gamer isn’t by definition an unskilled/new player, just a different type of player. Hardly discrimination, but exclusion which might even be worse.

I guess I am blessed with my ability to play the game with all kind of players.

Some of them totally forgotten that it is a game they play, and not a job they have…

First off, please stop with the egocentricity and ridiculous moral high ground. Personally, I have a degree in math with further background in computer science and statistics. Has it ever occurred to you that doing and discussing calculations and spreadsheets (and implementing them of course) might be something I enjoy?

Some others (and also me included) would like to get good (read: better) at whatever they do. We get to choose our entertainment (what makes/keeps it fun), but we will still approach it with a competitive attitude.

We want to play with people who equate “optimal” and “challenging” with “fun”, not with “work”. Every opportunity is made to reach out to “casuals”. But we’re not going to go all the way to them; they need to take a step forward themselves and meet us in the middle. We will lead them, but we will not and cannot grab their hands and pull them.

“But it’s fun, not work”
“But I don’t want my immersion ruined by knowing what to expect”
“But I’m casual and these hardcore players should carry me through the content”
“But this content is so easy anyone can do it so everyone should accept me”

No, it’s not that we won’t take you (casuals) for your inexperience. We won’t take you for your attitude and carefree indifference toward getting better.

So I’m curious, for everyone who says precursors are fine where they are due to supply and demand: what about the Chaos of Lyssa recipe?

I see a bunch of QQ on other threads and if it’s the same people who say precursors are fine, it would seem to be ironically hypocritical.

Yasha.5963:

What you described above is a system that makes it much more difficult to cheat by stacking high rank players at the start of a game. That’s good, it should be difficult to cheat, now it is virtually a feature of the game. You have said yourself that you do it because everyone else does.

Also you ignore that autobalance cannot be forced easily after the game starts if players are prevented from going freely from playing-spectate/team-swap-playing. I am sure some scrubs will try to do what you suggested above, but its a lot of effort to go through just to win a hotjoin.

I can tell from your posts that you won’t be one of those scrubs.

This match fixing looks new to you because it took time to discover it and have the idea get spread. I don’t know exactly when it took off, but it almost certainly started because of the disparity between the winners’ and losers’ rewards. I still don’t feel hotjoin is competitive enough to justify a gap similar to what is found in arenas.

The above is done even now quite often when there is a lopsided match or outlier rank (extremely low or extremely high on a relative scale) in the game. Some of them don’t realize they can spectate-autobalance and others feel it is too toxic. It feels like there should be a significant difference between those who leave a game because it is way imbalanced and those who leave a game to try to farm a way elsewhere. In reality it’s nearly impossible to distinguish that motive.

I often end up being a player people stack on (I usually try to pick a side early to break the ice and get things started), and I do tPvP when friends are online. As a result of this I am personally not worried about hotjoin rank rewards and usually manipulate matches not to get wins but to make sure others blatantly stacking don’t get their wins very easily. Just as you are troubled by people abusing the system for wins, I am troubled that one of the few ways for me to help even the odds is to AFK (with the orb on Spirit Watch for even more effect) or spam suicide (Skyhammer).

To me, the autobalance system is evidence that there is a social contract here: ANet keep the matches balanced so the players play fairly in the spirit of the game. The severe imbalance in hotjoin indicates ANet is not effectively fulfilling their end of the contract, and the match abuse is the players’ response.

Maybe if you really want to keep hotjoin fun and casual, something drastic has to be done: perhaps 200 rank point participation reward with a 300 point bonus for winning obtainable only 5 times a day (enough for most casual players). As that win bonus is capped there will no longer be the rush to abuse matches to get it as it will just quickly cap itself naturally.

People can be dead weights in WvW all they want. They just shouldn’t feel entitled to assistance they haven’t earned, nor expect to be shielded from being told/reminded that they are dead weight.

If all this hurts their feelings too much, perhaps they should be the ones petitioning ANet harder, rather than trying to guilt trip and create forum drama.

I’ve participated in my fair share of forum posts seconding motions to either remove WvW map from the the journey of legendary crafting (or alternatively adding a PvP requirement as part of the process). Perhaps there should be more initiative from the people who actually stand to gain from this (no, losing 1-2 spots to PvErs doesn’t hurt much when it’s likely the other servers probably have similar issues).

The rest of us are generally unaffected by the presence of these people, and it is only because we are unaffected by their presence and continue to ignore them that they come on the forums to complain.

heatherlea.7186:

How do I know? Because I was just in EOTM right now and saw him with his guild tag popped as I alt tabbed to see this thread.

You mean you added him to your stalker list to recognize the account? Treebeard The Swift is not even a valid character name, much less anything close to a character name Treebeard The Swift.9620 plays. Your BS and motives have been exposed yet again, but keep trying.

heatherlea.7186:

And you are trying to devolve this conversation about other players instead of the core issue is the cheating that is going on in EOTM.

Your impartiality is highlighted for all to see. It’s a bit beyond the speculated impartiality of Treebeard (you have yet to address a single point he made other than speculate about his guild membership).

To be honest, as this thread includes a link to a reddit post impersonating Elaina Eldee, it has already been derailed and should be closed.

When “defensive” means explaining yourself and “offended” means to try to push back on opposing views, then yes a lot of people will get defensive and offended suddenly all the time.

Using those two words are sort of like name calling when one doesn’t have (or runs out of) actual useful things to contribute.

Feminists know best though. They’re some of the champions at taking offense to things when offense has not been intended.