Guild Wars 2

ALL IS VAIN!!
/15char

I USED to trait into staff mastery in wvw, but found the trait EXTREMELY lack lusture. Reasons:
1) The minor traits in that line are terribad (jagged horror in a zerg? no thanks)
2) if you are traited for well reduction, have plague, staff, axe/warhorn, and actually know how to complete a full rotation, the staff marks really are just filler dps… If all you do for your zerg is staff spam and drop wells well… yea that kinda sucks

Your rotation should probably go something like this-
1- drop wells to open when you got the shot, get them on cooldown
2- drop marks
3- pop axe #3 and warhorn #5 and enter plague
4- roll around in plague form until its up, at which point your wells should be back up – drop wells again
5- death shroud 5 and 4 (this really doesnt have an order whenever its necessary really)
6- drop marks again

Out of those things listed the mark dropping part is REALLY not that big of a deal and is really minimal for the amount of time doing all the other things. Not to mention if you do complete that rotation you aren’t utilizing the cooldown reduction at all.

OH YA!
And warhorn >>>> dagger for zerg fights imo. You won’t get slowed down if you have half a brain and avoid npc trash or ambients and necros lack speed. the daze is pretty solid as well.

I agree that you should be able to pick whichever of the sets as milestones as you progress. My only problem with the rediculously high AP cost for this item is that it requires me to pick the other (in my case firey set) in the mean time while i climb up the ranks to get the boots. I have no intention of using the firey set so its a MASSIVE gap between getting the helm and getting the next piece in the set. Eventually im sure they will come out with chests/pants, and thats where i see these pieces falling into place ~20-25k.

Not complaining, this is a cool add in for achievement based rewards, but the massive gap in between the set pieces for anybody really makes it hard to be excited or motivated to climb that massive achievement ladder.

Thanks for posting hte Vids Rennoko. And don’t listen to the cranky jerks in here, you didn’t force them to watch the videos, or even comment in this thread for that matter. The fact that they invested the time out of their day to come in here, watch the video, and then crap on you for whatever mistakes you made is just rude and lame. Keep it up!

Ok i’m not going to comment on how you apparently play the zerker build (drop wells and lifeblast spam), but thats not exactly how i go about it… Are you refering to PVE, or PVP here? Because dropping wells, and life blast spamming will get your kitten pushed in by pretty much anything out there in a 1v1.

I’m simply saying that wearing a zerker amulet with no defensive trait lines is alot less forgiving than having a soldier amulet on, defensive traits, and 4+ minions as a buffer providing short casting time cc/blind/dps. Someone who knows basically nothing about necro play is going to be MUCH more effective running a minion mancer build and doing what you just said – popping minions, dodging around, and letting the minions kill the other player. Believe it or not LOTS of people do this and are semi effective at lower level pvp. The same does not go for full zerker necros.

I’m not necissarily saying i HATE MM play either. I have 2 necros for pvp, one speced for condi and one specced for MM and TBH i play MM more often now because i feel im more effective to the team by doing so. Absolutely you can refine your rotations and get better, and that there is a serious difference between a skilled MM and a non-skilled MM player. But the argument that MM is the hardest most active play style there is? I just don’t buy that. The casting times of the big hitting condi utilities all take way longer and are harder to get off than anything the MM necro has on his belt. You have to time your CC’s with your signet of spite, corrupt conditions, epidemic, and alot can go wrong in that rotation that can seriously impact your dps potential. Not to mention dealing with condi immunity classes, huge vigor uptime, and very little stun breakers on your bar… My success rate as a condi necro vs warriors im comparison to MM necro vs warriors is night and day. A decent hambow zerker stance warrior will completely nullify you as a condi necro currently.

I personally don’t have a problem with how MM necros currently operate. I don’t really enjoy having to rely on AI movement/pathing and actions for my success as a player, and thats my personal beef with it. I do however fear that MM builds are at risk of getting nerfed from other people’s constant QQ about the spec. My personal preference is condi necro, and i don’t like that i feel that i have to change my game play to MM because of where the condi necro is headed currently, and how much stronger i feel in an MM build.

Bhawb.7408:

Minions scaling will not fix MM builds, it will completely change the entire mechanic of how they are and break everything that works right now. Putrid Explosion will become insane, the rest of minions will be crap, and you’ll end up with glass MMs that have a single weak burst and nothing else, and bunker MMs that are as strong as wet paper.

that may be true, but as it stands they still do too much damage for how tanky they are, and i don’t foresee the QQ ending anytime soon.

kyubi.3620:

Minion is easy mode? Dont make me laugh I run MM since beta and i can tell you that placing a golem charge on a constantly dodging ranger is a freaking pain. I have to make my bone fiend use immobilize spam fear and use my dagger 3 and my focus 5 constantly to prevent foes from moving. Minion attack like ranger pets and can be easily kited, you need to place constant slow or immobilize to deal damage to begin with wich is a complex chaining sequance. This is the defrence between a dead minion master and an alive minion master o.o

If anything MM is the most active spec the necro has in his whole array of builds when played right and while minion deals damage you actualy need to help them deal it to make it happen.

….. Please tell me you’re joking/trolling? It shows that you’ve played MM since beta if you truely think that MM build is the most active and difficult method of playing a necro. Swap to zerker amy 30/10/0/0/30 power necro and then talk about “active play”. Heck even condi necros take more skill than MM – talk about constantly dodging thiefs and rangers? As a condi if you don’t land some of your bigger bombs that all have big cast times (sig of spite, corrupt boon, epidemic, etc) its gg. As a minion mancer, if you miss a minion skill you still have a massive gang of AI to hold you up. MM is quite literally the EASIEST method of playing a necro with decent success for having no skill level at all.

You are right however that the AI is not reliable and that is another frustration. Thats why the playstyle of all AI based builds are just boring, stupid, unbalanced and lame imo. But some people love it so all the power to you.

The reason MM builds are getting nerfed is because in lower level or unorganized pvp they are extremely abusive. The baddies cry because they try to solo 1v1 an MM and get completely rolled. Unfortunately for the necro community, that lower level/unorganized play accounts for 98%+ of the pvp that occurs in game, and hence the crazy amount of QQ.

The problem with MM builds is that the minions in no way shape or form scale to your traits/amulet. You can trait to be massively tanky and your minions still pack a punch. Any build where someone wearing full tank gear can do that sort of damage is by nature unbalanced. We saw what happened to the warriors running hambow prior to the massive nerf bat they recieved. Now they have to wear a zerker amulet to get similar damage numbers, which completely makes sense – and they’re still amazingly viable and strong in pvp.

All they need to do is make the minions scale off the necro’s stats, play around with the balancing there, and it will be fine. Until they do that though, they will either nerf minions into oblivion or the qq train will continue.

+1 for having the stupid skill removed. Give us something else plz, its completely screwing the condi necro’s through periferal nerfs trying to bring it in line. Worst. Idea. Ever.

Hmmm a couple of things i’d suggest:
1) Chilling darkness is insane good with plague form + well of darkness.
2) Staff recharge really isnt all that great, neither is the minor traits in that line. You should be using staff to tag, blast your wells for area blind (plus chill), and basically add filler dps. The majority of your time should be used in DS, plague, or dropping wells. Rinse repeat.
3) I’ve been playing with FITG and asking around, and the general concensus is that it really isnt all that great. You cannot predict when you’re about to get CC’d so it doesnt help all that much
4) Deathly perception is insane awesome especially if you drop wells, enter DS and watch everything crit all day long + life transfer damage
5) If traited that heavily into DS, you might as well get Unyielding blast, really good DPS filler

Remember that its good to be able to change gear/traits according to the situation. e.g. if you are kicking butt and taking names, bring on the full dps set. If you’re getting squished like a bug or fighting an uphill battle, throw on some tankier gear and trait for more siphoning.

This is my DPS trait selection, and i really enjoy it:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBYCZSh3MORKKmhh6x6gOfIA

TBH im kind of ok with the dhuumfire scrap. The trait was bad and boring and so many builds hinged on it for dps. I honestly wished they completely deleted the trait and left a “stay tuned” message on an empty trait slot than this stupid change that will essentially do just that for many of us. Im ok with being underpowered for a duration of time in a certain spec if it means they actually notice what happened and start the rework process.

A couple of things i think they could do to soften the blow:
-Introduction of dire gear in pvp. They mentioned that different gear sets may become accessible in the pvp scene. This increase in survivability would help everyone with the attrition moaning we see on the forums, and would justify having a bit less DPS for added tankiness.
-Buff to FITG – 3 seconds to 4 or 5 OR stun breaker with FITG. This would solve a very big problem with necro vs warrior/stun classes that turns into an absolute joke faceroll. It would also give us another place to put the points into.
-5-10% buff to terror damage. Not a biggie but could help level things out
-Restore Weakening Shroud and put it somewhere else in the line. I would be willing to go 30 points into the precision line JUST to have that kitten trait back… Another huge contributor to the current warrior vs necro problem.
-Minor buffs to other condi skills/abilities that would help with the huge loss of dps from dhuumfire.

What i hate about this change the most is going to be the ever rising population of MM necros as its probably our strongest method of pvp play left. AI based pvp makes my skin crawl.

Yea this is kind of my initial thoughts about FITG as well. Deathly perception it is! Thanks for the feedback guys and keep it coming! Anyone FOR FITG?

Perfect! thanks for the reply!

Quick question about Deathly Perception. Say i have 50% Crit chance prior to DS. If i drop 3 wells, and then pop into death shroud, does it make my wells crit 100% of the time?

Hi fellow necros. I am currently running a power based well build for wvw, with a combo of knights/zerker/cava gear. I am using a 0/20/0/30/20 set up right now, and am considering dropping 10 points out of blood magic (sacrificing transfusion) for a 0/20/0/20/30 set up. The heals from transfusion is pretty nice, but its on a fairly long cooldown and often my life transfer will get interrupted half way through (which is infuriating). Further more, stability is a pretty big problem for necros across the board, and FITG sounds extremely tempting (especially in combination with Near to Death).

My initial thoughts on FITG

Pros:
-Self access to stability
-Basically guaruntees that you get a full life transfer off

Cons:
-Not a stun breaker, therefore if you get knocked down it might prevent the next knock down but you’ve still been cc’d.
-Cannot predict cc in chaotic wvw.
-Extremely short stability time (although you can access it easily)

My crit change/damage is floating around 44% currently, and i have also thought about going into deathly perception to benefit more from life blast (currently traited unyielding blast already) and life transfer.

I was hoping to recieve some feedback/thoughts from those of you who use FITG while zerging. Do you like it? Strengths/weaknesses with the trait? And do you think its worth the 30 points in Soul Reaping? Any tips/tricks you can suggest with the playstyle?

Thanks!

-Vs condi based necros – automated response
- vs MM necros – aoe the hell out of the minions and necro. Nades, supply crate, anything you have to splash damage around will be your friend. Whittle down the minions and when you get the necro down to just him its gg. This takes a while though so i wouldnt suggest trying to fight an MM necro tanking a point. Remember that MM necros do worse and worse the more people are in the fight. For dueling, it just takes a while. Be evasive and take your time.

Am i completely missing something here? Yea clone death/suicide builds are fun…. but im pretty sure they’re not so good that they are even close to meta at higher level gameplay. Reason being is that it really doesn’t provide any specific function to the team. Its pretty solid in 1v1 fights but the fights typically take too long and support will arrive at their home to push you away, not to mention that condi mesmer is absolutely terrible vs anything with condi immunities (engi’s ele’s warriors). The build isn’t all that great in group fights, and its still pretty slow to be a roamer. Kind of plays out like an off-tank support build. I play this style in hotjoins for kittens and giggles. If im tpvping its shatter cat all the way. This is seriously going to hurt the condi mesmer, as well as all other DE based builds. The only build i forsee this helping is phantasm builds, which don’t really need DE anyway….

On that note, it will be somewhat nice to be able to have 3 phantasms up with DE… i just don’t think its worth the trade off..

yea to be perfectly honest i kind of agree with what alot of people are saying here… 5 stacks of torment + block + clone generation + blind + built in skill damage + the fact that this skill can be traited with IC and Scepter cooldown, although its on a pretty low cooldown already… not to mention that it works in stealth (should probably be fixed). This is one of the biggest reasons i run the scepter in condi damage spec. Its absolutely incredible.

You can’t get tunnel vision when it comes to condi’s. Getting 25 stacks of bleed or torment in no way shape or form should be your goal, as single condi sources are easily removed. You have to look at the overall damage ALL of your conditions are doing, and trying to spread the sources as many ways as possible (which the mesmer does naturally via staff, chaos storm/armor, etc).

The only argument against the scepter (and its a glaringly terrible flaw with the weapon) is its discustingly aweful auto attack.

This looks extremely similar to what i used to play prior to the patch, which was 10/25/10/0/25 to get the celerity. And pretty much exactly what black devil metioned, not too sure why you’re interested in shattering in condi spec.

With regards to weapon choice, it really depends. The sword is nice in that the clones it generates are close combat and much more likely to get killed and proc DD. Blurred frenzy is nice too for the block, but it doesnt really hit too hard i don’t find. Scepter 2 & 3 are great but the auto is garbage. I personally play this out with scepter/pistol + staff, and a slightly different build and really like it.

messiah.1908:

i would take 2 sigil of battle for more might stacks as with staff you have #2 skill and with vigor uptime you dont have to worry
also with 40% icd on phantasm skills i would take other heal skill with lower cd

The energy sigils are extremely nice to proc more clones for clone death and condi’s via DD. And yea, the other heal is better in 65% of situations. I just don’t find myself having a hard time staying alive using the signet heal and having the option for dual duelists is really nice. Entirely up to you though.

The strength in the duelist is the bleeds on crit. This adds huge dps pressure. Torch is nice but the phantasm associated is completely worthless. I’ve tried running torch and don’t like the feel of it at all. Duelist’s job is to continually keep high bleed stacks while the warlock provides good str8 up dps due to them having a variety of condi’s. The mix just seems to work well.

Helios.3598:

Thedenofsin.7340:

That build looks like it’s intended to be a side bunker / group support. However, that means it may likely run into a roamer thief or warrior, or a far point spirit ranger or MM necro. How does this build handle those?

I was playing a MM necro earlier and ran into a signet bunker mesmer and beat him down pretty handily. I don’t know what his build was.

MM necros are pretty interesting along with Fetid Conditions and Flesh of the Master. Granted, even with increased health it can be hard to keep them alive long enough to pull conditions off of you.

So… if you’re up against an MM necro use your first burst to burn down a few of his minions.

Great advice! Thanks Helios will try that method out. Is there any particular minion you would suggest focusing down first?

Its currently bugged… Try it again. Trait for both and watch the cooldowns after you cast the abilities. Hovering over will show your duelist having a 16 second recharge. Once you cast duelist, it goes on a 12 second recharge.

The cooldowns you achieve are as follows:
-10 second recharge on warlock
-12 second recharge on duelist
-5 second recharge on phase retreat
-8 second recharge on scepter block

twity.4732:

i’ve run this build and just a side not. celerity doesn’t stack with the duelist and chaotic dampening to make it 40% faster recharge on phantasm production. i know the duelist is still on a 16 s cd with 1 or both traits.

Which is why a lot of people just forgo the bottom 20 and put them some place else – tho the bugged phantasmal haste does happen to work for these 2 phantasms and these 2 phantasms only.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionists_Celerity

You sure about that? Wiki might be wrong, but im pretty sure they do in fact stack. Will have to test this when i get home. Im 90% sure this puts the phantasms on a 12 second cooldown.

Necros
Necros can be a very challenging fight, depending on their spec and build. MM necros specifically are becoming more frequent as the condi necro got squished. My success rate vs MM necros usually heavily depends on the healing skill you use – i am MUCH more successful with ether feast than i am with the signet. The trick to killing a necro is to remember they have very little sources of stun breaks – magic bullet and dazing allows you condi stack. But yea generally speaking this is a longass tough fight for sure.
If the necro is continually beating you (which happens, as mentioned this can be probably one of the toughest one-on-ones for sure) it may be best to roam off point and put pressure somewhere else. Necro’s are slow as hell and typically you can get back and back cap the moment he leaves. Dunno what to say Thedenofsin, your right MM builds are an uphill fight for sure if they know what they’re doing.

Warriors
as mentioned before warriors with zerker stance are irritating. You just have to avoid them while the stance is up and the rest is uaually cake. They quite often will kill themselves via killing your clones. I would say if you play it right warriors are one of the easiest fights to win.

Thieves
For the most part 90% of thieves i run into in pvp are not very good… and in general i have a very high success rate killing these guys. Be sure to stay in Chaos Storm or Chaos armor for a good chunk of the fight to proc the aegis. Use the energy sigils, phase retreat, decoy and scepter block to be evasive. REmember that if you start a channelled ability prior to the thief stealthing, the hit will connect regardless. This works very nicely with duelist and confusing images. But yea my phantasms usually chew thieves up extremely quickly.

Spirit Rangers
This can be pretty tough as well, similar to necros. I would rate this an easier fight than an MM necro currently. Ether feast is better than the signet for this one as well. Once again keep the confusion on them as much as possible. This counters their fast attack rate and does good dps. Another tip vs rangers is to be evasive in your movement – Once you have all your cooldowns off, switch to staff and play defensively. You usually win the attrition game. Note that null field is extremely effective vs warriors and rangers alike.

General Note
To be even better at dueling in this build, signet of domination and arcane thievery can be swapped for null field and blink/portal/decoy. Arcane thievery is amazeballs at stealing signet of fury from warriors and rampage as one from rangers + transfer of pin down and heavy condi abilities. Sig of dom + magic bullet + daze can paralyze an MM necro pretty effectively as well. I choose to run null field and portal for better roaming/group synergy though.

I agree, PU is kind of lame and irritating.

My current pvp build:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/DirtyBird-s-TPvP-Condi-Mesmre-Build/first#post3401893

DirtyBird’s TPvP Condi Build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWnUEVUbUNa1wWbExkigD5Qp468uSPwtc7CB-TsAAzCpIKSVkrITRyisFN+Y9xcBA

There are 3 main features with this build:
1) Very solid cooldown reductions via Duelist discipline, Chaotic Dampening, and Illusionist Celerity.
- Once you get used to having such low cooldowns, its hard to go back! it just feels soooo nice. This along with energy sigils allows you to play the build in a “clone death” style fashion with massive ability to generate and kill clones extremely quickly, proccing Debilitating Dissipation and Confusing Combatants. It also allows you to generate your heavy hitting phantasms more readily.
2) Phantasm buffs via Phantasmal Haste and Phantasmal Fury. Duelist is a huge part of your burst potential, with ~80% crit chance at first summon, your bound to get 6-8 bleed stacks and some good str8 up dps. Warlock is good dps throughout the fight as well.
3) Confusion damage traited via Master of Misdirection, and Confusing combatants.

Rotation
I always start a fight in scepter/pistol.
1) get the duelist up and firing
2) magic bullet
3) confusing images
4) Illusionary counter

By this time they should have about 6-8 bleed stacks, 3-5 confusion stacks, and 5 tormet stacks.

5) Burn your dodges, swap to staff (proccing DD)
6) Chaos storm + phase retreat for the armor (Chaos Armor + DD)
7) Warlock
8) Chaos armor (when it dies down)
9) Burn dodges ( MOAR DD!!)
10) You may want to null field at this point if they have boons to strip and get another chaos armor out of the deal. If you chose to do this you can pretty much keep chaos armor up for the first 15-20 seconds of combat.
11) Swap to scepter pistol and repeat.

F2 & F3 can be used to increase condi spike, or to interrupt a heal. Staff clones also provide a nice source of bleeds, so as mentioned, try to have staff clones out over scepter.

Group Synergy/Role
This build really isnt the strongest for group synergy. The best thing you can provide for larger fights is single target focusing, invis res/stomps, distortion res/stomps, null fields, and some spattered condi’s via clone death. I like to run this build as a roaming style build. It is also fairly effective at camping points. If you choose to tank points, you may want to look at Sensitox’s build, it sacrifices a little bit of condi spike for more survivability:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Sensotix-Mesmer-Condi-TPvP-After-Patch-Build/first#post3385423

Weaknesses of the Build
The most glaring (and infuriating imo, thanks anet for this one) issues you face as a condi mesmer is condition immunity. Personally i think its sort of horse kittenhat this was introduced into player’s trait lines (engi, ele, & warrior with zerker) but it can pose a very real kink in your build. This is why i choose to run the signet of ether. Your only real answer to condi immunity is through phantasms doing as MUCH damage as possible (duelist). If you see an engi or ele not taking any damage from your condi’s, get a mindwrack off and start pumping out the duelists ASAP and try to fight away from the duelists so they don’t die. With warriors just wait out the zerker, even if you have to lose the node let him decap and kill him after his stupid buff is down.

Final Notes:
1) Do your best to never be auto attacking with the scepter. Its just god aweful and limp. The clones it generates are not nearly as good as staff clones. Quite literally view scepter/pistol as buttons 2-5 and swap out asap.
2) Healing skills… Ether feast is a better defensive healing skill by far. Lower cooldown and better heal. Signet of Ether is a stronger choice for offensive options, as it allows you to create 2 duelists. Swap these guys out depending on who you are playing against. If you are playing 2+ warriors/engi’s use the signet. If not, id suggest using ether feast. TBH both work fine.
3) Always strive to work on your burst condi damage. To get really good at this style, it should not be sufficient to just win the fight (you usually win duels), you want to win the fight as FAST as possible.

Love to hear your guys’ feedback!
Cheers

Hello fellow mesmers! I’ve been playing around with alot of different condi mesmer builds post dec 10. patch in tpvp and this one so far takes the cake for me.

Note: Before anybody says it, YES, there is potential that someone else has posted this EXACT same build before me, but i haven’t see it, so i figured i’d throw it out there. If i missed any important information/call outs to the proper people for builds, please let me know and i will edit it in.

Condi Mesmer – Current Popular Builds
So far i’ve seen 2 popular methods people are choosing run the condition mesmer, namely being the countless build (clone death), and blackwater build (PU).

-Countless’ build i used all the time prior to the new patch, and enjoyed it to some degree. It utilized extremely high crit chance (rampager) with sword/pistol and staff. The idea is to start the fight off very similarly to a shatter build. Duelist, stun, leap and blurred frenzy, followed by massive clone generation/death to build up the condi’s. I found it to be a bit too squishy, and i didn’t like how the sword felt for damage (used to shatter damage, felt really lack lusture). The nice thing about it was that the sword DID provide decent defense to melee burst classes (thieves, mesmers, etc).
-Black Water/PU builds never really turned my crank. They’re trolly, have a hard time holding a node, and imo provide very little to group fights. They are EXTREMELY strong in duels, and annoying as F to play against, but not really my style.

Strength’s and Weakness’ of Condi Mesmers
Depending on how you gear yourself, a condition mesmer can be EXTREMELY slippery, very difficult to pin down or kill and very strong in duels. This comes fairly naturally using a staff, and even more so if you choose to run a rabid amulet. The difficulty a condi mesmer faces is in the lack of potential condition burst, as alot of our condi applying abilities stack random conditions. This was the focus on my condi mesmer build – attempt to get the highest amount of burst condi damamge without sacrificing survivability and functionality.

vinceftw.5086:

Oh lawd. Necromancers are in a strong state in WvW and PvP. They can still condi bomb someone to death and wells are a great WvW tool.

OP: you want to play an ele? Prepare to feel like an idiot compared to the necromancer, unless it’s for zergs.

Necros keep whining and I agree you have some issues, mainly mobility but you’re FAR, FAR from the worst class in the game.

Its not about being the worst or best class in the game. Its about how a class feels to play. WvW i will say necro’s are still very strong and valuable – but the lack of stability and getting constantly ping ponged around FEELS bad… And in PvP i think its hard to say where the different classes have settled, its only been a couple of days sinse the patch, and to be quite honest, i do feel like the necro is one of the worst classes to bring to the table currently.

Sky is falling aside, i switched and im alternating between mes/warrior/guard for now. Miss my necro in pvp though but our condi pressure has been so watered down its extremely limp to play.

Afya.5842:

Try it anyway.

wvw:
necro is probably one of the top or at least mid-top zerg class.
roaming not as good because of mobility but viable

pve:
open world solo, every build is fine.
normal dungeon pug, do fine because team have few buffs and people running soldier gear do less damage than you.
fractal, not very good imo. In some fractal, it’s fine. Problem is we have no reflect, no invul, no vigor. Condition is too slow to do dmg when every one including pug in higher level run zerker. Zerker necro has no cleave that after the two wells you’re left with single target attack. Debuff conditions which should be good against bosses are reduced by defiant.

spvp:
it was one of the best but I believe other classes now has more counter. Tho I haven’t go pvp for a while.

Agreed on most of these points,

WvW – Necro still is one of the best classes in WvW hands down – although the glaring and frustratiing lack of stability can make you rage.

PvE – who cares, all builds typically work. PvE content is not a challenge for the most part in this game

PvP – Went from being on the upper tier of classes to play, to near the bottom over the last 2 patch changes. Dhuumfire/Terror nerf i thought brought us in line with other classes, making us pretty strong, but not nearly as roflstomp as before with dhuumfire and terror damage. But now… ugh. Just so many better options to bring to the fight imo. Its too bad really. condi necro was super fun to play. Feels really diluted now.

Thank god im not the only one feeling like this… Prior to the dhuumfire/terror nerf, i felt like a boss. Sure certain builds smashed me but i still felt like i was strong in most situations. Then came the dhuumfire/terror nerfs. I thought to myself, “ok i can still do this. Definitely harder but im up to the challenge”. And then this patch…. I feel so watered down that i get my kitten handed to me by engi’s/ele’s that have condi immunity, mesmers now have great access to condi removal, stun lock warriors still ruin me if i make too many mistakes – even after their damage nerfs… Not to mention that so many of our skills have rediculously long cast times and can be easily dodged, and as you mentioned bugs around our signets etc… Its almost like if you don’t get your spite sig off its gg for you. Terrormancer build doesn’t really feel viable anymore which is sad because it was tons of fun :/. And i REFUSE to play crappy mm builds. Switched to mesmer for the time being, but miss my necro :<

One question that i have is what role do you see yourself playing when using this mesmer build? I typically chose to throw portal on my bar and roam with it, but find it sometimes takes too long to get the bunker down and they reinforce before the fight is over…. You’re no way a bunker, not really a high dps contributor like you are in shatter cat, and don’t have very good synergy in group support in fights. I like the build, but would like to get your thoughts on how you can contribute to the team the best using this?

Hey Bazeleel, i too tried the 0/25/30/0/15 build initially post Dec. 10th. On paper it sounded like the best of both worlds – countless + blackwater fusion FTW! First thing i found was that PU really wasnt all that great in this set up – no use of viel or torch makes it really kind of sub par – you really only get the synergy of that with blackwater sword/pistol + scepter/torch set up. I then went to sensitox’s build of 0/30/20/20/0 which felt better, is EXTREMELY tanky, but kinda lacked some burst condi potential. Since then i have switched to 0/30/20/0/20 and im loving it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraGFF1jqpVjteExkigD5Qp468uSPwtc7CB-TsAAzCrIaS1krJTTymsNN+Y9xcBA

The thing with condi mesmer is pretty much anybody can win a duel with it, its extremely strong in 1v1 right now. The hardest match up you will get is vs. a good necro as they continually transfer the condi’s back at you and you really can’t burst them too fast.

The trick to this condi style is learning HOW to add some burst to it – don’t just win the fight, learn to win it as fast as humanly possible. Sometimes ill switch to arcane thievery and signet of domination if i want a little extra punch in a duel when roaming.

Weakness of this build i find is it lacks in group fight synergy in comparison to other builds/classes.

I also find that scepter is a tricky weapon… with the clone generation available to you with all those cooldowns, its tempting to play the build similar to countless’ clone death style where you spam clones and kill them FAST for DD proc – in which case the sword is a better option as its melee clones and they die easier. Scepter clones are trash, i try my best to avoid auto attacking with the scepter if at all possible.

Hope this helps! PS you can also swap out undead runes for lyssa if you are feeling like you are dying alot to condi’s.

Love your videos man. very well explained and thought out. keep up the good work!

Hey Sensotix, since the patch i’ve been playing something very similar to your condi build. The differences being that i replaced the 20 points in inspiration, for 20 points in illusions to pick up V, X to get the confusion duration and phantasmal haste.

I do agree that the minor traits in the inspiration line are nice, but i really like the celerity to create more clone spamming to work with debillitating dissipation (sp). The confusion on shatter also works nicely with cry of frustration.

The one thing that i noticed with this build (and you mentioned yourself) is that its extremely passive and lacks real spike condi damage. You win the long fight. And in addition it really isnt the strongest contributor to larger group fights.

I find that the 20 in illusions helps with the aggressiveness/spike condi damage as it allows your phantasms to hit more frequently (duelist is huge dps for this build), you get more out of F2, and can clone spam more effectively.

I also use Decoy, Arcane thievery, and signet of domination for a faster/stronger duel. The downside of this is that i typically use lyssa runes for the condi clear, as i don’t rune nullfield and arcane thievery is somewhat unrealiable.

Let me know what you think!

Hard to catch and last refuge… please take these out – like everyone here has said 10,000x in this post and others, escape mechanics that you cannot control or predict are completely aweful, and actually get me killed more often than they do help :<.

sword #2 return nerf is really brutal, but i honestly have no issues with the initiative traits getting hit. The initiation regen baseline IS huge and is going to be very nice imo. Dagger/pistol perma stealth nerf = goodbye abusive and boring mechanic. Flopping around like a fish in a dark field was never fun and really isnt all that useful.

Healing skill – eh… i just don’t get this push for venoms. What are we supposed to do, share our venoms, attack maybe 5 times and gtfo? Thieves just don’t have the same group combat AoE or synergy that other classes do… Not to mention the glaring fact you have to sacrifice shadow rejuv for it, venoms rarely make their way onto my bar.

Its not even a fair vs unfair, balanced vs OP argument for me, its just really not all that fun for me to play thief anymore. Not QQ i moved on long ago just think its kinda sad such a COOL character in the game is kinda blah atm.

Hey Ascii, been playing a build quite similar to yours prior and throughout leagues. I have a carbon copy of your original gear set up, as well as a full pvt+vampirism runes for situations that require alot of survivability, and i like how both play out so far. Usually use your gear for open field fights for a little more DPS output, and PVT for keep/enclosed combat where i am eating alot of dps – a little more of a front liner feel.

What are your thoughts in a 0/20/0/20/30 build, dropping the points in death magic and a little DPS from condi’s+stat bonus to power for the 30 in soul reaping? I’ve played this build for the last little bit and i really like it. Here’s the build, and my thoughts around it:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZakRrSPTTUjfPBMpo7xjUU8wUPWH9zB-jkyAYfBRyBEBBkwAk8UWTgCilxioxqtx0uAq4FVLFATCjA-w

1) In big zerg fights i have no problem hitting 4-5 people with my marks, which im basically using as filler DPS and to tag for my restoration sigil.
2) The minors in that tree are god aweful. bone fiend looks like a skinned cat that does nothing and i dont care at ALL for toughness w/ minions.
3) I understand you are losing 250 toughness by not going into death magic. But by going into soul reaping, you are getting better life force regen, spectral armor (stun break which is nice) and a flat out dps increase when ranging your wells/marks.
4) Piercing life blast, stability on DS, and DS cooldown (still not sure if i love FiTG, no stun breaker makes it pretty hard to use but still pretty good)
5) +30% crit damage.

I find piercing life blasts can be a nice addition to your DPS in big fights. The play style is a little different as you are utilizing your DS in compensation for straight up toughness.

Not sure if anybody else in this thread proposed or discussed this build so sorry if this is redundant.

Thanks for continuing the chat, and updating the builds!

Daniel.5463:

Hello Anet and fellow gw2 players.

First of all i have to clarify that I’m mainly running with a commander and only occasionally do the leading part myself, though I’m playing the game since release and have the knowhow. Due to this I want to add some suggestions.

1. Invisible Commander
Make it possible for the Commander symbol invisible to all players not in the squad. This would create the possibility for a guild grp to activate their commander without stealing the players from the main commander of the map. (other commanders can see him though you can also disable that or add an option to disable it)

2. Close Squad
Grant the Commander the option to close his squad, making it impossible for ppl to enter who he or someone from the squad doesnt invite

3. Squad kick
Make it possible to kick players from his squad. And add the ability to kick all Squadmembers who’re not on the map.

4. Squad Officer
Add the possibility to promote someone in the Squad to an officer, granting him the possibility to kick members from the squad and put symbols and paint on minimap. would make it easier for scouts to mark a position. (could also be added the possibility to add an extra symbol for all officers of the squad on the minimap, but this could make some trouble)

With those 4 points it would be a lot nicer for guild grps to use commander on wvw maps without being inconvenient to the main commander on that map.

5. Commander Buff Bar
This is the main downside of Commander currently, please make it work like the outnumbered buff in wvw! An enemy shouldn’t be able to tell who’s the commander just by looking at his buffbar. This can make differences in many fights, due to each commander being unable to immediatly tell who’s the commander.

6. Commander visibility
I’m not sure if this here is the correct place to post it, but i think it should be fine. If the Commander is a small character (like asura) and stand inside of a big one (like norn or charr) often commander symbol disapears behind the bigger model. Although many names ontop the commander symbol let it disapear too. this destroys the functionality of it, cause noone is able to tell where he is.

7. Commander on the sides
Sry for the naming, I just didn’t knew how to name it. in short it should display a commander arrow on the edge of your screen if the commander in whom’s squad you’re isnt on your screen. this would improve the ability for squadmembers to follow their commander. (for example commander is on the left side then on the left side in the direction where your commander is the mark is placed)

8. Follow commander reward
There should be a reward for players added who correctly follow their commander. for example, for each squadmember who completes the same achievement the reward should increase slightly. (if the squad has 50 members and 30 of those complete an event, those 30 should get a small reward for completing an event with 30ppl of the squad) this would encourage joining a squad from an commander. although it might help stopping ppl from having bad beaviour against a commander, cause if they’re blocked they can’t join his squad.

9. Squad limit
Increase the Squad limit that it’s impossible that not all ppl from a map can join it. For example increase it to 100.

Thank you for reading my post, I hope it will help you making an even better game.

All of these are great ideas! To expand on the suggestions and maybe provide some reasonings for it (from my perspective), here are some thoughts. An issue we have sometimes on my own server is tag watching. Any person(s) can have an account on an enemy territory, and report back to their friends where exactly the commanders are moving. By allowing the commander to have a hidden tag with control who see’s his/her movement, this greatly reduces that risk if the effort is put forth. The Squad officer is nice so that the commander can pass off the responsibilities and focus on commanding.

One idea i think would be really cool would be for there to be a blue collumn of light above the commander’s head to help visibility of the commander, so that you don’t have to be scanning your entire screen to see the blue dorito over the smallest sized asuran commander, for example.

PS huge shout out for fixing skill lag, introducing the OS, and upcoming edge of the mists, and for addressing the que/taxi problem! This is another way of making this game go from great to epic!

Keep up the good work!

Ok, you all are right and i publicly and officially apologize for my yak insensitive actions.

This is Iyma Twerkit, one of the people fro GoF responsible for attacking the yak parade. Firstly i would like to say that the group that did this disastrous atrocity was a collection of 5 of us, we do not represent the entire GoF guild in our actions. I just don’t understand why this can’t be taken to a PvE area via guesting to not take up room in a tier 1 wvw competitive environment? Irregardless of current score im not particularly fond of losing our natural tower, bay or any other territory because our BL is qued due to “yakkers”? Sorry for the yakicide.

This is pretty much the truth. To all those cool kids saying they’re the bomb by being the baddest mesmer out there, good for you. I command, and have all 8 characters at 80 and know how to play them well. Mesmers really are left as a commander’s batman utility belt at the moment. Granted, a skilled mesmer is invaluable, but in current meta of zerg fights, a skilled mesmer is one who knows when to veil properly, and knows where to be to place those crucial portals. Its not that mesmers are bad par say, its that guardians, necros, eles, warriors are much much better.

If its any consolation, mesmers are exponentially more beneficial than say rangers in a zerg fight, minus their source of water fields. Id put them at about par with engies currently. Are they the best? Nope. Are they the worst? Nope. They’re about low middle.

If i can give any glimmer of hope, the best zerg synergy build i play is 0/20/20/20/10, focusing on reflects. You gain reflect projectiles from:
-reflect on feedback
-reflect on feedback revive
-reflect on distortion
-reflect on focus skills
-access to both glamour cooldown and fall reduction which makes it extremel versatile when those traits are needed.
-staff and sword cooldown reduction.

Its hard to really make the numbers pop like the old glamour build, but with the right gear you can be super survivable and get some numbers from those reflections. All i got. Sorry guys, i feel like mesmers are the coolest and most unique class in the game, but as someone said the class is balanced for spvp, and as long as they are doing well in that realm i think your SOL for getting any love. And lets not even mention your mantra’s and signet options :<.

where is this zerg you guys are talking about? I see like maybe 10-15 people in front of a keep max. You down maybe 2 people and dont stomp anybody. It seems like for 80% of this video you are just flopping like a fish in between a buncha dudes swinging your sword, doing pretty marginal damage and not accomplishing much. Im glad you THINK you’re doing all sorts of great things but i just don’t see it – the fact is that if you were a tad bit glassier, and short bow auto attacking/CBing that “zerg” without any breaks in between you would be doing much more damage and providing a blast finisher… I mean you didn’t even use dagger storm, basilisk venom in a zerg fight? breakin my heart… If this was a true 30+ zerg you’d have alot harder time with that style of combat.

Just a suggestion: if you want to go for a melee style of play in a zerg battle (regards to open field) you should be stalking near the outliers of their group picking off people who wonder off from the ball, or picking off reinforcements. Looks like you’re having fun though so kutos.

0/30/30/10 Build

Like to swap out shadow rejuv and venom sharing in wvw. Don’t ever pvp so don’t really care this build works exactly how i want it to, for small roaming and zerg fights. So – back to the question: Does anybody know if venom share prioritizes people without the venom being shared or if its purely based on proximity and useless overlap can occur?

How does having a venom cripple the damage? Thank you for the response, i read through the forum post – this mainly discussed the change to 5 player caps on AoE abilities. I couldn’t find a reference on venom sharing preference and redundancies though. Anybody else have a clear answer on this?

Hey guys/girls, i have a question about venomous aura venom sharing.

If multiple people run this trait, and share the same venom in a densely packed group of people, will the venom sharing prioritize people who do not already have the venom? And if not, what is the priority? Proximity? Thanks!

The most recent patch buffed weakness significantly, and to counter this classes across the board saw weakness skills brought in line with the new mechanic. Except of course for racials. Why? Can’t use racials in PvP. My condition damage Asuran engi is LOVING the untouched radiation field Anet, thanks for completely ignoring wvw ONCE again in balance changes.

-Cheers

Ghostwolf.9863:

You should upgrade all your equipment to level 80 exotics asap.

The damage difference between D/P and D/D is low,
while the survival difference is high.

D/P however is a better option when roaming, since you can stealth on demand
escape zergs and pick fights. and the blind combo field is your best friend
and allows you to freely melee autoattack targets within its zone.

Blackpowder> 1 – 1 3/4 auto attack chain, followed by a heartseeker and backstab from behind.

Shadow Shot is the best gap closer, heartseeker when the target is low health.

When you can’t catch up with your target while stealthed for a
backstab => Shadow Shot, if below 25% heartseeker.

Headshot to interrupt stuff.

D/P is just much more complete as a weapon set for pvp than D/D.

I suggest playing a 0/30/30/10/0 build, with init regen while in stealth and 2 init
when using a skill that stealths you, with this you can perma-stealth,
both are picked up from from shadow arts.
Hidden Killer from 30 critical strikes, and 50% movement speed while in
stealth(acrobatics) if you don’t use Signet of Shadows.
And Infiltrator’s Signet to give a small buff to overall init regen.

Once you begin to learn what you you want from your build, you can
modify your build further and personalize it.

I also suggest that you pick up 14-15k hp and and ~1400 toughness.
Chest, Legs and Helmet are the best slots to go with Soldier or Knight equipment.
While Shoulders, gloves, boots and jewelry are best as valkyrie and berserker.

I completely agree with this. I’d check out Yishis’ build and set up. I’m using a 0/30/30/10/0 build as well, valk gear with divinity runes (can swap out with beryl), zerker weapons, and trinkets. With 30% in crit damage line, you pick up alot of minors and side strikes to buff the crit chance without stocking into a high amount of precision, and hidden killer makes you backstab like a glass cannon. And i COMPLETELY agree that d/p all of the weapon skills are useful, in comparison to d/d which has death blossom (heavy groan) and dancing dagger (medium groan). If you do go D/P make sure you check out Black Laela’s instructional video on youtube on how to do short heartseekers to get more stealth. You basically angle your camera to be directly above you and strafe left and right while heart seekering in the blinding powder.

NOW – that being said, i personally play D/D. Its a playstyle choice. The skill level needed to play D/D is much higher as you are reliant on having things to hit to gain the stealth readily and easily. It requires much better terrain choice and selection to win fights. You want to engage combat by NPCs or siege, things you can hit. The reason i play D/D:
1) More fun for me personally, i like the challenge
2) C&D is a good 1/3 of your spike damage that you lose by just going for the backstab.
3) i hate flopping around in a black powder like a fish out of water. its slower in comparison to lurking around and tapping 5.
4) there are a lot of things you can do using the Cloak and Dagger stealth mechanic. I’ve been on top of the lords room with 15+ enemies just roaming around and cloak and daggering off enemies to stay up in there. Ive quite literally won 1v1’s by using nothing BUT C&D (i just wanted to see if i could do it). Constant C&D and when their life dropped low enough, backstab. As well, in team fights you can use a downed player to lure other players out to down them, as well as you can use them as a constant source of cloak that doesnt move.

If you do decide to go D/D, always have a pistol to swap out in case you need perma stealth.

I think it depends on which playing environment you’re considering. I’m not the most experienced necro out there, but here is my take:

Necros have very specific builds to do very specific things. And in those builds they do them very well. For example, i play a condition/fear based build in wvw. Im probably one of the most effective and useful players in zerg fights, but if you catch me solo running back to the group, or i have to contribute to a group fight, im easily one of the least useful people on the field. Combine that with our f-ed up down state and im by far the worst in small scale combat. Put me in a zerg ball though and kitten im probably one of THE most useful characters out there. I think the spectral wall buff is a tad bit much on top of everything else they have available to them, but im loving it. Compare that to a minion master. Super good in small scale or solo combat, completely useless in large scale fights. Power builds seem to do very well in PvE dungeon scenerios.

I kind of like this mindset though, makes you switch it up and know your class really well, in comparison say, to my main too – guardian, which basically has 1 or 2 gear sets and builds to do absolutely everything in the game and do it very well.

In the end, i do think that necros are out performing alot of other classes in the WvW setting right now, but its not game breaking by any means. Enjoy the buffs Necros! who knows what the next balance patch will bring

Buff Power Shot to increase Short bow, or even CB range back to its original usefulness. Lets be honest, Shadow Arts has tons of very good options you would probably rather take other than a flat out 5% damage boost to short bow and pistol damage…. A slight damage buff + range increase or overall rework of that trait however would make me think twice as to which traits I’d pick.

I just want to be useful in WvW tower/keep situations again. Is that too much to ask?

Yea this change doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me… My only guess is that the dev’s decided that longbows have 1200 range, therefore it just makes sense that shortbows should have a shorter range – aka 900 hence the range nerfs for both thief and ranger. Lets consider this:

PvP: don’t pvp alot so maybe someone can help me out here, but i never really saw 1200 range on a slow moving easily avoidable projectile to be mega OP at 1200 range

PvE: don’t think pve should really ever be the basis for massive balance changes imo, dungeons and pve content across the board is just EZ and the classes excel in different areas.

WvW: This is where the cluster bomb range nerf really hurts the most. As others have said, cluster bomb allows you to contribute in tower/keep engagements, and it allows you to contribute most reliably in larger zerg fights. Now we will be completely useless in siege situations other than the occasional unreliable scorpion wire. We will be virtually useless/more of a liability in zerg fights other than dagger storm and potentially venom sharing (although you give up quite in survivability to go down this route). We are the only class now that i can think of that does not have a 1200 ranged weapon option. Kinda sux bad. And if this is their mentality for the change, how come there still remains discrepancies between scepter ranges for say, guardian and mesmer?

If this is not their approach to the balance, then i would sure as hell like to know why they felt this change necessary. For the mean time, i’ll give the new changes a try, but most likely will hold my thief strictly for roaming parties in wvw. Necro and guard got some cool buffs, might as well play my alts instead.

Some good and bad changes all around. Ignoring the things that don’t count because they’re still useless imo,

The bad:
1) Last refuge is the single biggest reason i die, reduced cooldown actually makes this kitten worse. They need to either make it not work with the revealed mechanic or replace the skill with something else completely. Its shocking that anet hasn’t listen to every thief scream bloody murder about this and old yeller it already.
2) Cluster bomb range reduction makes the worst zerg fighter in the game obsolete. Venom share and dagger storm will be your 2 contributions to large scale fights.

The good:
1) Reduction in steal cooldown. Pretty sweet
2) scorpion wire cooldown reduction. Kinda cool, now if only they could fix the pathing to be more reliable.
3) Skale venom change. I think this is pretty cool, the skill sucked before and its extremely clear that anet is nerfing weakness sources/durations across the board. This will be a nice additional source of dps for condi thieves out there. Pistol bleed + sigil of earth + skale venom is going to add up quick.

Another thing to note is that whirling axe recieved a 50% damage buff so that it finally out dps’s the warrior axe auto attack. I wonder if this will also buff the damage of the stolen axe… if so O_o.

Seems like anet doesnt know what to do about the sword, they seem to nerf and buff it simultaneously, the last couple of patches. Lets see if pistol whip isn’t terribad anymore! Sky isn’t falling but dat cluster bomb nerf… will force me to shelf my thief for anything but roaming/scouting play in wvw. Sokay though, you should read the necro and guardian patch notes! Thank god i have alts