Guild Wars 2

Sergo.2867:

Floplag.4032:

Sergo.2867:

What’s the counterplay to dragonhunter traps?

A brain?
Seriously there are many ways to avoid them but it begins with dont be leeroy, use your mitigation skills, line of sight, and a number of others pending your class.
If you are a thief its harder as they naively counter much of what you do or need to do, but every snake has to have its mongoose

I don’t understand. How does LOSing help me avoid an invisible trap that is already laying on the ground somewhere?

Which mitigation skills help when Dragon’s Maw traps me, Piercing Light Dazes me, and Procession of Blades starts chopping me up?

I’m just back after a few months away, I have no HoT experience.

It doesnt help with that, you are combining a number of things i said into one scenario.
Consider this, its stationary… you have a chance to avoid it, unlike mes or necro wells which get placed on you.

In general, scrapper, reaper, and thief.
The Druid OP stuff is highly over stated in my opinion. Strong yes, stronger than the other 3, no.
I highly doubt Thief and Reaper get into the season as they are, its just too easy to do too well with minimal effort.
Scrapper may cause not everyone can play it to the level required to be OP, but those who can are incredibly strong.
And i still see no reason Revs wont be in the mix
Just my 2 cents, likely all its worth.

Sergo.2867:

What’s the counterplay to dragonhunter traps?

A brain?
Seriously there are many ways to avoid them but it begins with dont be leeroy, use your mitigation skills, line of sight, and a number of others pending your class.
If you are a thief its harder as they naively counter much of what you do or need to do, but every snake has to have its mongoose

I’ve come to the conclusion that most people in this game have no clue how to actually deal with a ranged class.
They got the DH nerfed and now… its the Ranger, when neither is/was meta and there are far other more OP concerns.

Susu.9261:

Floplag.4032:

Susu.9261:

Floplag.4032:

Susu.9261:

Floplag.4032:

…If you have anything that can triger the traps… they are easy kills
If you dont just jump in like an idiot, they are easy kills.
If you think with your brain and not your balls, they are… wait for it… easy kills. …

If I’ve played on Courtyard, I’d just kite the DH. However all maps are objective based.
Also, how many classes can trigger the traps with something? Not many actually.
What I absolutely don’t get, why 2 traps have zero activation time.

objective maps make it easy to know where the traps are, others its still fairly obvious most of the time. You want a big indicators to dumb it down and make it useless? Serious if you want that then let us throw them at distance like mes/necro wells. They are stationary, thus avoidable in 90% of situations.

The triggering someone else mentioned.

Why no activation, again see stationary. you want a cast time and a stationary position? Ask trap rangers how well that works out for them. Here’s a hint, you’ll have trouble finding one.

Bottom line a mind is a terrible thing to waste… use it and DH become very mortal very fast.

How do you trigger a trap with clones? Only noob DHs stay behind or on top of traps. They generally fight in front of the trapped area, spear you and then drag you into the trap. Or if you are melee, they just drop it on top of you. I’m sure I’m not telling anything new.
Edit: I don’t think ranger are a good example, since their traps have 0.5 sec activation time.

Its funny that you would use the “only noobs would do thus and so” argument when the point im trying to make is that only noobs would charge into a DH without considering the traps location.
The pull can be resisted, line of sight, roll out of range, any number of ways… again use your brain here, if you get caught virtually every class has some kind of damage evasion capability, use it. Cant have that cake and eat it to.
As for ranger traps you are right, which is precisely why its a dead spec, well that and the damage got nerfed into the ground.
Ask yourself this, without those traps what does that class have? I know you arent scared of the bow so…
Im sure you will get your way and DH will go the way of the trap ranger which is why i stopped playing mine after season one… the recent boosting to AA and set and forget condi builds is a step in the wrong direction in my opinion, you should be a whole lot more concerned with that over anything a DH does, but thats just me.

Yea.. you are right about a lot of things.
But I still dislike skills setting up damaging fields with zero activation. I didn’t like one of the necro wells for the same reason – even tho I’ve abused it like the kitten I am.

For mirth: We could approach it the other way around: make every trap and aoe skill zero activation time

Edit: lol.. this forums replaces offending words.. kitten… Hahaha!

I personally as someone who plays a Ranger main and a DH would prefer to let me place traps at range like wells so that i would actually be viable in WvW as well. I would trade that for a short activation time like well myself. i hate being forced to play something i dont really want to play to be viable in that game mode.

Agemnon.4608:

Darknicrofia.2604:

reaper’s so called lack of mobility is so blown out of proportion

why do you need so much mobility when you kitten out perma chill? slowing everything else down by 66% isn’t enough yet?

Reaper is strong but the style doesn’t really fit me. I’d rather have more freedom of positioning or disengaging. I honestly think the very concept of chill is a bad design decision.

Why? the game has a Quickness and Swiftness feature, why is Slow or Chill out of line? What is bad is how easy and how many ways a Reaper can apply it.

Susu.9261:

Floplag.4032:

Susu.9261:

Floplag.4032:

…If you have anything that can triger the traps… they are easy kills
If you dont just jump in like an idiot, they are easy kills.
If you think with your brain and not your balls, they are… wait for it… easy kills. …

If I’ve played on Courtyard, I’d just kite the DH. However all maps are objective based.
Also, how many classes can trigger the traps with something? Not many actually.
What I absolutely don’t get, why 2 traps have zero activation time.

objective maps make it easy to know where the traps are, others its still fairly obvious most of the time. You want a big indicators to dumb it down and make it useless? Serious if you want that then let us throw them at distance like mes/necro wells. They are stationary, thus avoidable in 90% of situations.

The triggering someone else mentioned.

Why no activation, again see stationary. you want a cast time and a stationary position? Ask trap rangers how well that works out for them. Here’s a hint, you’ll have trouble finding one.

Bottom line a mind is a terrible thing to waste… use it and DH become very mortal very fast.

How do you trigger a trap with clones? Only noob DHs stay behind or on top of traps. They generally fight in front of the trapped area, spear you and then drag you into the trap. Or if you are melee, they just drop it on top of you. I’m sure I’m not telling anything new.
Edit: I don’t think ranger are a good example, since their traps have 0.5 sec activation time.

Its funny that you would use the “only noobs would do thus and so” argument when the point im trying to make is that only noobs would charge into a DH without considering the traps location.
The pull can be resisted, line of sight, roll out of range, any number of ways… again use your brain here, if you get caught virtually every class has some kind of damage evasion capability, use it. Cant have that cake and eat it to.
As for ranger traps you are right, which is precisely why its a dead spec, well that and the damage got nerfed into the ground.
Ask yourself this, without those traps what does that class have? I know you arent scared of the bow so…
Im sure you will get your way and DH will go the way of the trap ranger which is why i stopped playing mine after season one… the recent boosting to AA and set and forget condi builds is a step in the wrong direction in my opinion, you should be a whole lot more concerned with that over anything a DH does, but thats just me.

Susu.9261:

Floplag.4032:

…If you have anything that can triger the traps… they are easy kills
If you dont just jump in like an idiot, they are easy kills.
If you think with your brain and not your balls, they are… wait for it… easy kills. …

If I’ve played on Courtyard, I’d just kite the DH. However all maps are objective based.
Also, how many classes can trigger the traps with something? Not many actually.
What I absolutely don’t get, why 2 traps have zero activation time.

objective maps make it easy to know where the traps are, others its still fairly obvious most of the time. You want a big indicators to dumb it down and make it useless? Serious if you want that then let us throw them at distance like mes/necro wells. They are stationary, thus avoidable in 90% of situations.

The triggering someone else mentioned.

Why no activation, again see stationary. you want a cast time and a stationary position? Ask trap rangers how well that works out for them. Here’s a hint, you’ll have trouble finding one.

Bottom line a mind is a terrible thing to waste… use it and DH become very mortal very fast.

Is the DH strong burst wise, yes, it HAS to be to be viable since our sustained isnt exactly that strong. BUT, it absolutely has counters, which is to say basically anything that can trigger the traps, players that dont go by the name leeroy jenkins, or some basic intelligence.

If you have anything that can triger the traps… they are easy kills
If you dont just jump in like an idiot, they are easy kills.
If you think with your brain and not your balls, they are… wait for it… easy kills.

In any event they are far from the worst over tuned spec right now and are not even likely in the meta discussion. Reaper, Scrapper, Thief, all much stronger right now to the point that i literally cannot fathom what im seeing right now going live for season 2.

Dakarius.3284:

Floplag.4032:

Im pretty sure you need a better understanding of how to beat a DH.

The only way a DD beats a DH is with p/p (more or less unviable) or the DH is terrible.

That is true, DH are a basic counter to a thief… as each class should have. It isnt necessarily a completely forgone conclusion though the odds are very much in the DH favor in that particular fight.
I was referring more to the comments on Chrono and Druid and a few others

the rotation argument isnt due to the PvE element though, thats a bit of a false idea.
if you see that someone is on the gate you should react whether its a human or npc. Rotational elements would exist either way.
Now if you are referring to the lords and such as secondary objectives, this is can agree with at least partially, but trebs, sky lasers, and the npc requirements to get thru gates and stuff i just cant get behind

i love some of the ideas in the thread, sush as immob over cripple, perhaps immob then cripple?

But specifics aside i would really love to see the shortbow become the go to condi weapon inline with necro wells and such.

I dont think its effects are terrible as is if they got a little damage buff and more condi spread. SB1 bleed 5 targets like 2 does for example, maybe give SB2 an added burn, buff the baseline and condi damage a little.

It doesnt have to be drastic or total rework, its just needs a little love. A shortbow trap builds for condi point control would be a lot of fun if it was actually effective.

Im pretty sure you need a better understanding of how to beat a DH.

Someone at Anet got this crazy idea that PvP needed PvE content, i assume to attract more players into PvP and gave us conquest, anda bunch of other maps that have a myriad of PvE content.

The idea behind PvP is to play other players… not bosses, not dolyaks, not trebuchet, bomb carrying skritt or archers, certainly not sky lasers that one shot you or any of the other nonsense we are being asked to do. And nothing that takes a mario brothers type of puzzle jump to get too on a multi layered map.

They have killed WvW and are on their way to doing the same in PvP with adding more and more of this garbage into sPvP.

Bottom line, if it isnt another player, it has no role in PvP. Please tell whoever got this wild hair up their rear end to stop forcing PvE content on us and get back to basics, especially if you are trying to make e-sports a reality.

Lorelei.3918:

It’s really not fair that DH traps completely outshine ranger traps. Ranger was the original trapper class. It’s a lot easier to counter traps that apply condi dmg as opposed to traps that apply instant physical damage. It’s also not fair that DH traps do more damage then necro wells. DH has made both utility sets pointless on their respective classes. You would be better served rolling a DH.

Dont worry they will kill them like Ranger traps eventually… cant place them AoE like wellls for some odd reason and now gutting the damage. all for something that is easily beatable if you use your brain.

Zelulose.8695:

Dragon-hunter traps should not have CC.

Well then nor should any other AoE then… mes wells, necro wells… come on guys you cant throw this stuff out there in a vacuum. You do realize the meaning of the word “trap”, right?

i do not necessarily want the old maps back, but i darned sure dont like the new ones.

whoever thought these overly huge 3d maze style maps worked in a pvp form of the game is nuts.

Not to mention wasting 20 minutes just to get too a fight only to get blobbed to death by 3-1 odds carrying dragon banners is really taking the fun out of the game mode for me.

In the old way i would enjoy doing it most nights, lately, i do it begrudgingly when i have to for the guild, not for me own enjoyment

Uncle Dalty.8327:

Floplag.4032:

Varezenem.2813:

Floplag.4032:

I played a DH thru most of last season to diamond in mostly solo queue and i did well on it mainly because people constantly had to leeroy into my traps without thinking and didn’t have a clue how to use terrain and other thing to their advantage. Those who did, beat me easily, those who didnt, well thank you for the diamond i guess.

If you stand still and eat these kinds of things that have such a huge bast time and are telegraphed a mile away, the skill may not be the problem

CoR is an instant cast, not a fair comparison at all, just sayin…

CoR has the exact same cast time 3/4.

i stand corrected, it feels like an instant but you are correct.
that having been said it still does higher damage to multiple target so… meh, whatever.
i still say those who are complaining about DH are the problem, not the DH. If you use your brain instead of your balls we are not OP at all.

Cause porting in, spamming traps, cc and bs 10k one-shot skills takes so much brains

if thats happening to you i suggest you learn to use your rolls, evades, and other such cooldowns. ive played many players that get it, that know what to do, and its been some really good fights
comment stands, if you are getting blow up by that then you should re-evaluate how you attack them or defend their attacks and evolve your gameplay

Varezenem.2813:

Floplag.4032:

I played a DH thru most of last season to diamond in mostly solo queue and i did well on it mainly because people constantly had to leeroy into my traps without thinking and didn’t have a clue how to use terrain and other thing to their advantage. Those who did, beat me easily, those who didnt, well thank you for the diamond i guess.

If you stand still and eat these kinds of things that have such a huge bast time and are telegraphed a mile away, the skill may not be the problem

CoR is an instant cast, not a fair comparison at all, just sayin…

CoR has the exact same cast time 3/4.

i stand corrected, it feels like an instant but you are correct.
that having been said it still does higher damage to multiple target so… meh, whatever.
i still say those who are complaining about DH are the problem, not the DH. If you use your brain instead of your balls we are not OP at all.

Krysard.1364:

Im the only one that enjoys fighting against DH on this game? I mean, they are more enjoyable enemies than condi mesm, dunno why people is so salty about them

The answer is really simple, because they dont want to think. They want to just jump in without having to use their brains in any form and pew something to death without any consideration for whatever the other class might do. dumbed down gameplay ftw? lol

I played a DH thru most of last season to diamond in mostly solo queue and i did well on it mainly because people constantly had to leeroy into my traps without thinking and didn’t have a clue how to use terrain and other thing to their advantage. Those who did, beat me easily, those who didnt, well thank you for the diamond i guess.

If you stand still and eat these kinds of things that have such a huge bast time and are telegraphed a mile away, the skill may not be the problem

CoR is an instant cast, not a fair comparison at all, just sayin…

honestly it looks the same to me, i always seemed to see 2-3 necro on each team with the meta classes, which is why i found them buffing necros so perplexing. the class was already highly represented and powerful.

Would you play one?

Jourdelune.7456:

You are a classic niche MMORPG players. This game type is dying. The new generation is about MOBA. It’s more than 10 times popular and played around the world.

This game category is still growing strong numbers (passed the 100 millions of players).

The next 10 years will get the golden era of gaming and will destroy any Wow numbers. Major game like Streetfighters V is coming with competitive MOBA mindset, like hundred others that are in development right now.

We are going strong for 100 millions of players.

Anet would be dumb to ignore that.

This is explain it with a different twist:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model

MMORPG players got biased based on their own niche.

You can’t compete with sPVP if you don’t cater to MOBA business model.
20 millions MMORPG players around the world is a niche compare to MOBA having 100+ millions of players.

Please suscribe to the thread i did link, do your +1 and continue to promote the sPVP split to MMORPG to be really an Esport over the MOBA scene.

Gw2 will create way more momentum that way, because his MMO will market to MOBA players… so way more people that you can lure in that group (MOBA) than the other group (MMORPG).

We have the NEXT GEN MOBA right there and we are killing it for MMORPG players that have misconceived opinions about B2W and a dying business model.

Dal

Bold predictions, well see, but in any event as we sit here today this is not a MOBA… and if it was i would not be here as i find them mindlessly dull.

Is MOBA style gaming the future, not exactly hard to predict that as likely but im not sure what that says about the new generation of gamers and their attention spans. Every game styles has been dumbed down tremendously taking only a few hours to beat.

You think they shouldn’t ignore it, well duh, they havent, look around… Overwatch, Heroes of the storm, Blade and Soul, Battlefront, etc… non of which have anything to do with their MMO counterparts. All games put out by the same companies that have MMO genre games as well. One has nothing whatever to do with the other.

The classic MMO isnt for everyone.. never was. Some of us like the stories, the time invested, the lore, and many other things that a MOBA cares virtually nothing about. If all you want is to log in be max level and pew… then you should be playing a MOBA, not an MMO, but trying to compare the two is kinda pointless.

Oh, and for the record, MOBA arent exactly free of things like P2W and balance issues so…

Lord Kuru.3685:

No pay for HoT ==> no win.

That’s precisely P2W.

No, thats a copout and rather lame extension of fact.
Pay to win requires you to buy something within the game, such as the TP or other outside of the cost of the game… having the current version of the game does not meet that definition.

Good teams at any level, particular the highest level of competitions are not good due to their comps, anyone can play the same comp if they choose. They are good because they know the classes, how to use it, how to counter others, and perhaps most importantly are accustomed to playing together and understand how their teammates play. All things being equal facing the same comp and skill level, that knowledge and trust of each other is what makes them better, not their comp.

Of course skill is a factor, but in a team game its team skill, not individual, that matters. One player no matter how good cannot beat 5 and control a match with different points and objectives, it simple cannot be done unless the opposing team is just flat terrible, and that wont be the case in any of these teams so the skill level in most cases at that level will be fairly comparable.

Other teams trying so many diff specs and rosters to try to beat them are playing into their hands really… what they should be doing is committing to it, learning each other better, and get on the same level in that sense as opposed to trying to counter them or run gimmicks.

3-4 threads today trying to blame current issues on pay to win and im convinced that there is a huge misconception as to what that actually means.

Pay to win implies that you must buy some gear or other item to compete, this is not the case in GW2, period. Even if you assume that you must have HoT specs to compete, which is highly debatable after the patch, that still doesn’t require you to buy anything other than the actual current version of the game.

Having the most up to date version of the game isnt pay to win, its common sense. No game has ever balanced any game to allow for every spec in its history. New classes and specs always change things.

Oh and there are viable specs from pre HoT, they may not be meta, but they are certainly viable. In fact you could argue that the most recent patch made that even more true with some old specs getting talked about again that may or may not require HoT trees to work.

Bottom line, can we please just dispense with the P2W nonsense now… please.

Dream Shake.8741:

7. New meta is teh sux, old meta was much better

This is the one thing i cant imagine anyone saying…. though im sure some will.

Kayberz.5346:

If you druid players were as skilled as you seem to believe you are then you shouldnt have a problem being able to win without bristleback doing a majority of your damage, you have like 30 other pets that never get used anymore because of this pet, and your going to try and pretend that bristleback is balanced?

So many biased bads its not even funny.

lolololol This is about the most idiotic comment ive ever read. I literally don’t even know where to start on this one so ill just lol and move on.

Shadelang.3012:

@Floplag ahh I read the tone of your post wrong. My apologies for that.

All good i didnt really specify as i was kinda baiting the haters. Bottom line they want to ignore the pet and trivialize the class mechanic when it really should be a problem for them. They really just dont get the class concept.

Shadelang.3012:

Floplag.4032:

Sure, take all damage from all pets and leave only the supplemental abiltities such as heal, knopckdown, bleed etc… and bump the ranger itself by the same amount? Hows that?

As a Ranger i hate relying on AI for any portion of my damage, id rather the pets be buff bots, and apply supplemental things based on my damage and power, not their own.

Though i think most people would hate that just as much

See thats the thing. There are other rangers that enjoy having the pet be more than a CC bot. I for one LIKE having more than one damage source because it lets me work around an opponents active defense as long as I am good enough to take advantage of openings (have your pet pop another rangers counter attack while you land a halt bash immediately after…or having a pet hit a DH from behind while hes facing you while his forward block skill is active). If they were just utility bots. Then they would be even more meaningless than most of them are now in my opinion.

Any build that countered the rangers primary build would win by default. Where as now you can use the pet to fight against builds that counter your core body. A bit of CC or healing wouldn’t do much to stop that if they cant apply pressure.

The reason the smokescale and bristleback are so popular is because they apply reliable pressure to an opponent. Before them it was the bird family. Because ultimately those were more usefull than a CC that might not even DO anything. I don’t see how them applying a buff would be any different than the occasional fear. They would have to be REALLY strong buffs. Which would ultimately mean that only 1-2 pet families would be taken because the others would be meaningless. Exactly as we have now.

Edit: And you can bet your kitten theyd get nerfed because someone in the PvP forum didn’t like that we got some purely passive benefit just for slotting a pet. The only reason they WOULDN’T whine would be if the buffs were weak. Meaning it would just be a downgrade from what we have now. (Note I don’t agree with this mentality and I hate when people push for changes based on it. But I have been in these forums enough to know that it will probably happen)

Dont get me wrong, im not saying i like it, just that its an option. I like the synergy of the 2 myself.
Im just wondering, mostly sarcastically, if that would pacify those who cant seem to determine how to work with it, and yet say nothing about other similar mechanics like necro minions and mes phantasms.
The pets SHOULD be a concern, you should have to think about them… its the primary class mechanic.. im sorry that some of you have to actually think about it, but that is after all the whole point to the class.
People want to be able to ignore them, which basically means they want to negate the class, perhaps if we hit harder, they would not be a concern.

Sure, take all damage from all pets and leave only the supplemental abiltities such as heal, knopckdown, bleed etc… and bump the ranger itself by the same amount? Hows that?

As a Ranger i hate relying on AI for any portion of my damage, id rather the pets be buff bots, and apply supplemental things based on my damage and power, not their own.

Though i think most people would hate that just as much

Sarision.6347:

Do people here also agree with buffing the other pets?

I’m all for nerfing both Bristleback and Smokescale, but people need to pay attention to pet when fighting rangers.

This… its part of the class mechanic, you cannot trivialize it. As others have said unless you trivialize shroud, shatter, virtually every unique aspect to all classes.

Personally i feel that the rangger itself should do more damage, and the pets should provide supplementary effects like their unique F2 skills and other attack specific things like knockdowns and such but leave the damage to the player.

I wonder how many would be happy with a large general buff to the Ranger itself and taking damage off the pets and leaving their other abilities intact?

Bottom line you cant nerf pets without nerfing the class and its already basically worthless outside a bunker madness spec

kuritsutian.2987:

I don’t see anybody saying that rangers/druids are OP, they aren’t, … what the thread is about is 2 specific pets that needs to be standardized to the rest of them

Which is to say make them equally useless

Rangers are not even close to the biggest problem if they are a problem at all, i find the Ranger hate kinda laughable really in the current meta
Some of you wont be happy till the force everyone to stand within 150M and beat on each other with sticks.

Tragic Positive.9356:

When comparing Staff to GS…

You trade a Water Field and Projectile Destroy (the heal isn’t noticeable at all and you usually miss it since the water drops are slow) for a CC, Evades and burst.

I wouldn’t think twice.
1st of all – Range is not our advantage. The abuse of the range Difference is our advantage. We can start on range – then burst someone in melee and keep switching between these two stances whenever we feel like making the enemy on their toes.
Of course it is impractical at sPvP where all you need to do is to stand in the middle of the action which Ranger cannot afford…… But hey. It can work in solo queue.

When you are glass cannon – you do not want to throw all that amazing stuff (like burst) for simple utility. That’s disgraceful.

While in terms of pure math you are correct, obviously, my observations suggest there is more to consider. In order to get off that burst you must by definition stand in the fire so to speak, and as you say, thats not where we want to be. I feel as though maybe thats time better spent getting out of the fire and setting up more burst from the bow and staying alive.
Yes, we have a CC there, but they have breakers and CC of thier own to keep us there.
I think it comes down to play style. Pure math you are dead right, no question, but if you talk the reality of actual gameplay into account im not so sure. Perhaps i just got lucky or faced people that were used to everyone just standing around and didnt know how to deal with my movement but i felt like it worked fairly well.
Just my 2 cents.. which is likely all its worth.

i ran this build last night as a test with a few slight modifications and i must say i enjoyed it.

The only thing i dont like as a Ranger is EVER having to swap to a melee weapon… its just not what i want to do on the class. If i wanted to melee GS id play another class. Now i know all classes can do similar things but still… i feel like when we resort to that we give up our greatest strength and it usually doesn’t end well.

So i wonder… how might this work particular build work with LB/Staff?

We give up the GS 5 daze but pick up immob+cleanse on the staff 4. We gain mobility with staff 3 as a heal and escape (plus blast). we can better negate ranged attacks with staff 5 to gain heath as opposed to knockback on GS4. Plus we gain faster access to CA using staff

Thoughts?

While i agree that it would increase queue times, that cannot be the answer to every single suggestion.

In this case it isnt right cause there are multiple specs per class that might be in play.

Do i think its absurd to see double MM necro on a team, yes, of course i do, but i dont think limiting professions is viable in this case.

Laserbolt.6731:

Floplag.4032:

Laserbolt.6731:

And if they do nerf bunkering, it will make it harder for casuals to have a useful role in sPvP. But that’s the decision the developers face. Cannot seem to have it both ways given the small population size that throws casuals in with high-skilled players.

This makes little sense to me, its the more casual players that have far less likelihood of being able to take out a bunker or play it to its full capability. If anything its likely that the opposite might be true and a more casual player might actually have a chance.

Bottom line, no class or spec should be able to hold of 2-3 people solo. Delay them a bit for help sure, but literally stalemate 2 players with one is never a good thing.

Currently there are easy bunkers for casuals to play and do well with.

True, but that doesnt mean they play them as well or can perform the same.
Yes i see a lot of people that obviously got a spec off metabattle and think they can play after a couple rounds in unranked at best… they are the beatable ones.
The good ones, not so much.

Laserbolt.6731:

And if they do nerf bunkering, it will make it harder for casuals to have a useful role in sPvP. But that’s the decision the developers face. Cannot seem to have it both ways given the small population size that throws casuals in with high-skilled players.

This makes little sense to me, its the more casual players that have far less likelihood of being able to take out a bunker or play it to its full capability. If anything its likely that the opposite might be true and a more casual player might actually have a chance.

Bottom line, no class or spec should be able to hold of 2-3 people solo. Delay them a bit for help sure, but literally stalemate 2 players with one is never a good thing.

Hes right, the focus right now is building e-sport, look for things that makes for faster paced action.
bunker specs and other such boring engagements do not make for good watching so, they will likely get nerfed to the ground.
I dont think we will be Zerk heavy mind you, but the ability to hold of 2-3 solo should be gone.

the funny part here is not a word about the army on necro minions, but lets make sure rangers dont get anything viable.

Malchior.5732:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Floplag.4032:

Varezenem.2813:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Hard counters are generally a bad idea (look at Diamond Skin) and the fact that Rev’s are getting nerfed, are still riddled with bugs and issues, and their counters are getting buffed (Necros and Thieves) is not a good thing.

What you just described is the meta getting nerfed and the bottom feeders getting buffed… sounds kinda like balance, how is this a bad thing?

Because all you did was reverse the roles. You know what might happen? Thief completely removes all roamers from the meta and Necro removes any heavy-boon class from play (especially Revenant).

How is that good? Better would have been to reduce power of the dominating classes and see what happens.

You know what else might happen? Thief and Necro nerfs later on with their “counters” getting buffs
Effectively doing nothing but cycling classes.

Im still failing to see a problem here… cycling meta SHOULD happen…. not the same crap every time. And this meta is horriffcally bad and boring anyway.
No class should stay meta forever, eles, and no class should be non-viable in any game mode ideally.
A lot of things might happen… but they would all be preferable to this garbage meta in my mind

The part that you aren’t getting is that they a are changing the current meta to another one that will be just as bad. And like you said no class should be non-viable but that’s exactly what will happen with the revenant.

I get what you are saying, i simply disagree. You are talking about one isolated matchup that does nothing in my mind but create a counter for a class that currently has none. How is that not viable?

Revenant does have counters; they simply aren’t used for one reason or another at the moment.
Now that those counters are more viable due to certain classes being nerfed, and the Revenant itself also receiving nerfs, those counters are also BUFFED.
All that will happen is that the roles are reversed and we’ll get an equally bad meta in the opposite direction.

We have a good chance of going back to a nuke meta where people are just bursted down or we could enter a condi meta. In either one, Thief will determine if a roamer is viable at all or not due to superior mobility, high spike damage, good sustained damage, and now with all the tools Daredevil has added (if you thought Power Revenant was bad…).
If you don’t see problems here, then I can only assume this is your first competitive game.

lol… wow disagreeing with some of you on the high horse is kinda fun.

Look you can spin it all you want but you are guessing, we dont even know the final notes yet. Either way, Rev needs a kick in the teeth, its FAR too OP, everyone in the game knows this.

As to the meta, this meta is destructive… anytime bunkers are the standard its bad. It creates boring matches, even less fun to play, and extremely unexciting times in a game trying to actually create itself as an e-sport. Any meta you could describe would be preferable than this one from almost any standpoint… literally any.

No, this is not my first, far from it.. sounds more like you just dont want your toys taken away.

The funny part to me is that they are nerfing the easier one to avoid in the DH. As to the rest, im looking forward to the changes and the Necros as the most OP meta in the history and meta, lol

sigh
You know, you’re not making a case as to whether or not buffing the crap and nerfing the top dramatically is actually a good idea and instead started rambling about Revenant being OP, which I would agree needed changes?
However, by nerfing the Revenant as harshly as they’re planning to do and buffing the counters so dramatically, you will risk making the class completely unviable (which you claim you think shouldn’t be that way, but are now saying it’s fine).

It’s not about me wanting Rev to be OP or not (I don’t), but I’ve been there before: my class simply cannot play at a decent level because it’s just getting destroyed the entire match or is completely useless in comparison to another class and there’s literally nothing I could do about it. Yes, you could argue Revenant did that to some classes, but all we needed were a few shaves and changes, and that’s fine, but then they’re also buffing the biggest counters a LOT.

Yea, yea, we don’t know the final notes (considering Anet’s past, these are probably all the changes and they’re mostly final and going to remain unchanged), but I do know what might potentially happen. I’ve seen what Thief does to weaker classes and I’m almost certain a lot of people wont enjoy their glassier specs completely demolished over and over again. So what do you think will happen when a class has trouble against the most mobile class in the game that also puts out really good damage?

To finish up: dramatically nerfing the top of the meta while also dramatically buffing the bottom (although Necro wasn’t really at the bottom at all) is a great way to end up in the same exact scenario in reverse and we’ve seen Anet do this multiple times already. It’s almost always a mistake.

No, thats really not what ive said at all. If thats all you got from my posts i doubt youll get anything further
All you talk about is risks, and possibilities, not facts. We dont know what will happen.
What we do know is that Rev, Temp, Mes bunker in their current state are OP and need adjustments and that Thief and Warrior are under performing and need help.
I dont know how you expect any game to balance but bringing the top down and the bottom up is exactly what they should be doing.
DS tempests counter ANY condi class… your fear is exactly what they face every single match.
We wont know the end results regardless of the amount of theory crafting till we see it in practice, but what we do know is that the current state is broken, boring, and extremely un-entertaining.

Malchior.5732:

Floplag.4032:

Varezenem.2813:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Hard counters are generally a bad idea (look at Diamond Skin) and the fact that Rev’s are getting nerfed, are still riddled with bugs and issues, and their counters are getting buffed (Necros and Thieves) is not a good thing.

What you just described is the meta getting nerfed and the bottom feeders getting buffed… sounds kinda like balance, how is this a bad thing?

Because all you did was reverse the roles. You know what might happen? Thief completely removes all roamers from the meta and Necro removes any heavy-boon class from play (especially Revenant).

How is that good? Better would have been to reduce power of the dominating classes and see what happens.

You know what else might happen? Thief and Necro nerfs later on with their “counters” getting buffs
Effectively doing nothing but cycling classes.

Im still failing to see a problem here… cycling meta SHOULD happen…. not the same crap every time. And this meta is horriffcally bad and boring anyway.
No class should stay meta forever, eles, and no class should be non-viable in any game mode ideally.
A lot of things might happen… but they would all be preferable to this garbage meta in my mind

The part that you aren’t getting is that they a are changing the current meta to another one that will be just as bad. And like you said no class should be non-viable but that’s exactly what will happen with the revenant.

I get what you are saying, i simply disagree. You are talking about one isolated matchup that does nothing in my mind but create a counter for a class that currently has none. How is that not viable?

Revenant does have counters; they simply aren’t used for one reason or another at the moment.
Now that those counters are more viable due to certain classes being nerfed, and the Revenant itself also receiving nerfs, those counters are also BUFFED.
All that will happen is that the roles are reversed and we’ll get an equally bad meta in the opposite direction.

We have a good chance of going back to a nuke meta where people are just bursted down or we could enter a condi meta. In either one, Thief will determine if a roamer is viable at all or not due to superior mobility, high spike damage, good sustained damage, and now with all the tools Daredevil has added (if you thought Power Revenant was bad…).
If you don’t see problems here, then I can only assume this is your first competitive game.

lol… wow disagreeing with some of you on the high horse is kinda fun.

Look you can spin it all you want but you are guessing, we dont even know the final notes yet. Either way, Rev needs a kick in the teeth, its FAR too OP, everyone in the game knows this.

As to the meta, this meta is destructive… anytime bunkers are the standard its bad. It creates boring matches, even less fun to play, and extremely unexciting times in a game trying to actually create itself as an e-sport. Any meta you could describe would be preferable than this one from almost any standpoint… literally any.

No, this is not my first, far from it.. sounds more like you just dont want your toys taken away.

The funny part to me is that they are nerfing the easier one to avoid in the DH. As to the rest, im looking forward to the changes and the Necros as the most OP meta in the history and meta, lol

Varezenem.2813:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Hard counters are generally a bad idea (look at Diamond Skin) and the fact that Rev’s are getting nerfed, are still riddled with bugs and issues, and their counters are getting buffed (Necros and Thieves) is not a good thing.

What you just described is the meta getting nerfed and the bottom feeders getting buffed… sounds kinda like balance, how is this a bad thing?

Because all you did was reverse the roles. You know what might happen? Thief completely removes all roamers from the meta and Necro removes any heavy-boon class from play (especially Revenant).

How is that good? Better would have been to reduce power of the dominating classes and see what happens.

You know what else might happen? Thief and Necro nerfs later on with their “counters” getting buffs
Effectively doing nothing but cycling classes.

Im still failing to see a problem here… cycling meta SHOULD happen…. not the same crap every time. And this meta is horriffcally bad and boring anyway.
No class should stay meta forever, eles, and no class should be non-viable in any game mode ideally.
A lot of things might happen… but they would all be preferable to this garbage meta in my mind

The part that you aren’t getting is that they a are changing the current meta to another one that will be just as bad. And like you said no class should be non-viable but that’s exactly what will happen with the revenant.

I get what you are saying, i simply disagree. You are talking about one isolated matchup that does nothing in my mind but create a counter for a class that currently has none. How is that not viable?

Malchior.5732:

Floplag.4032:

Malchior.5732:

Hard counters are generally a bad idea (look at Diamond Skin) and the fact that Rev’s are getting nerfed, are still riddled with bugs and issues, and their counters are getting buffed (Necros and Thieves) is not a good thing.

What you just described is the meta getting nerfed and the bottom feeders getting buffed… sounds kinda like balance, how is this a bad thing?

Because all you did was reverse the roles. You know what might happen? Thief completely removes all roamers from the meta and Necro removes any heavy-boon class from play (especially Revenant).

How is that good? Better would have been to reduce power of the dominating classes and see what happens.

You know what else might happen? Thief and Necro nerfs later on with their “counters” getting buffs
Effectively doing nothing but cycling classes.

Im still failing to see a problem here… cycling meta SHOULD happen…. not the same crap every time. And this meta is horriffcally bad and boring anyway.
No class should stay meta forever, eles, and no class should be non-viable in any game mode ideally.
A lot of things might happen… but they would all be preferable to this garbage meta in my mind

Saiyan.1704:

Floplag.4032:

i for one do not want 2s or 3s, I do not want this game turning into WoW.

This game and WoW’s meta game are vastly different… it’s like night and day.
GW2 = You can build a counter to a person’s build or team comp
WoW = Standard dps+heal meta trio that is non-changing… unless a patch comes.
Uncomparable

Floplag.4032:

You think the Meta is bad here… in a 2s/3s dominated environment its far worse… not to mention that selling of ratings and garbage that does on at these kinds of smaller form factor matches when one person can by and large carry if they are good enough. WoW chat is spammed with nothing but WTB/WTS for these kinds of matches… it degrades the value of them to virtual nothingness.

Again, that’s a different game that wont happen in GW2. Only thing that’ll happen is that the game mode becomes more conpetitive. More conpetitive means it’s a tad bit more salty; of which, every competitive game shares. If you don’t want to be a part of it then don’t be.

We need a 3v3 game mode appearing seasonal, at the very least

Maybe between leagues or something… either ways, we absolutely need it.

You give the player base far too much credit… weve seen people exploit literally every possible way to gain in this game or any other
We already have true heals, and bunker specs are tanks so… great, druid, bunker mes, rev… anything else not welcome. ill pass

Malchior.5732:

Hard counters are generally a bad idea (look at Diamond Skin) and the fact that Rev’s are getting nerfed, are still riddled with bugs and issues, and their counters are getting buffed (Necros and Thieves) is not a good thing.

What you just described is the meta getting nerfed and the bottom feeders getting buffed… sounds kinda like balance, how is this a bad thing?

Necro is already 99% meta and i see 1-2 of them in virtually every team im on. This is especially true in the case of MM due its absurd amount of passive damage/heals from minions, and the upcoming changes are likely to make them gods.
That having been said i find it hard to cry for Revs… i played on in PvP/WvW because the classes i want to play arent good enough… and i could do better on a Rev with minimal knowledge than i could classes i knew well so… it needs to get knocked down a pegs or two.
Necro will be a hard counter to a Rev in many cases, but every class should have one… right now, you dont.

i for one do not want 2s or 3s, though i do agree with getting some of the PvE element out of PvP.
I do not want this game turning into WoW.
You think the Meta is bad here… in a 2s/3s dominated environment its far worse… not to mention that selling of ratings and garbage that does on at these kinds of smaller form factor matches when one person can by and large carry if they are good enough. WoW chat is spammed with nothing but WTB/WTS for these kinds of matches… it degrades the value of them to virtual nothingness.
I would very much like to get the excessive NPCs and Trebs or Skyhammer nonsense out of my PvP… but not by going to a smaller form factor match level.