Guild Wars 2

Because people are stupid, Thieves have stealth, and stupid people obsess over stealth in every MMO that has it.

Fact.

Acandis.3250:

Incurafy.6329:

I love it when people with zero knowledge of programming/software engineering make statements about how easy something is to code, lol.

cs major from cmu but ok fahg

Lawl, rage much? As a CS major you should know then that this isn’t just something that they can do in five minutes, nor is it two lines of code (I know that that was an exaggeration, but it’s still not a super-quick fix).

Also, your use of homosexuality as an insult is abhorrent, it’s 2014, let me know when you catch up to modernity.

Before you start implementing new game modes, I honestly think that the following should be priority, as outlined better in this thread:

1. Make hotjoin 5v5, encourage team work and capturing/defending points (#2 will help with this).
2. Create a proper tutorial, the current one doesn’t teach new players how to do practically anything.
3. Each time the meta changes, update the default builds to match the meta so that new players have a decent build! I really don’t want to sound insulting, but the current default builds are terrible, and I have witnessed many hotjoin players running them because they don’t know any better.

Next, you need to encourage the PvE and WvW population to come to PvP. I think this can be done by:

1. Announcing the winners of TeamQ tournaments in chat globally across every game mode, just like you used to do in GW1! What actually got me into PvP in GW1 was seeing this pop up all the time and I wanted to know what the hell it was and how I could get my name on it.
2. Introduce prestigious awards for high ranking PvP players, again, just like in GW1 with the Bronze/Silver/Gold trimmed Guild Capes. It would also help to actually have guild capes, I don’t even understand why they’re not in GW2, personally.
3. Introduce unique armours that can be worn in PvE (via transmutation stones or something, I’m sure you guys would be able to figure this one out) but are ONLY obtainable in PvP by winning high end tournaments and being ranked in the top 100 on the leaderboards. You can also create unique armours for lower achievements, but the best armours should come from the top.

Assuming that this increases the population dramatically, then you should introduce new game modes. I don’t know how you guys feel about this, but I personally feel that unless the population of people doing Solo/TeamQ’s dramatically increases, splitting the competitive playerbase between game modes is only going to have a serious detrimental affect on PvP in GW2.

Finally, my preferred game modes, AFTER the aforementioned has all been done and the population has increased.

1. 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3 death match
2. 8v8 Capture the Flag WITH a Guild Lord (make it self-healing to replicate having a Monk in GW1, since obviously we can’t heal it in a clutch moment like we could back then).
3. 5v5 King of the Hill with a flag that gets you extra points for bringing it to the hill node when it’s in your control, no extra points if it’s not (similar to Spirit Watch).
4. XvX GvG death match with an open field and some pillars and stuff for LoS/tactical play. X being 10, 15, or 20, depending on what you guys come up with.

EDIT: The modified GW1 GvG outlined by PowerBottom sounds absolutely brilliant. That can be added as #5 on my list. :P
EDIT2: PLEASE DON’T MAKE A MOBA MODE! If I wanted to play a MOBA I’d go play a MOBA. I want to play Guild Wars 2, not League of Legends. It’s an absolutely terrible idea and the last thing you want to do is just make a GW2 MOBA… argh.

Here, have an Internet!

throws Internet

What is the point of giving Ranger anti-stealth? I know that you said it’s for counterplay, but stealth already has counterplay, it’s pointless and just makes killing Thieves easier for one class and one class only. It’s not as though stealth Thieves are even viable in tPvP.

I agree completely with TheGuy’s latest post. The set is actually perfect right now and buffing it is going to end up with a nerf to Pistol Whip. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when, just as happened to S/D with the unnecessary nerf to FS/LS.

Please, leave Pistol Whip alone, it’s actually perfect as it is now.

There is no reason, all is vain.

Lukrath.6982:

why is evry1 saying d/d? d/d sucks(imo) it was OBVIOUSLY d/p. with b powder+ HS

No one is saying that it was definitely D/D, all that has been said is that it’s a possibility based on the limited amount of information given. Also, your opinion doesn’t matter, it’s irrelevant, and just because you think that D/P is better doesn’t make it obvious that it was D/P.

Seriously, how the hell did you even jump to such a stupid conclusion?

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Same for me.. This error is not on my end, as my internet connection is running very smoothly for everything other than GW2.

Here’s a tip ANet: if you make people pay for your game, let them play it.

How dare you insinuate that Anet is doing this on purpose. It’s childish, unnecessary, and completely illogical.

Here’s a tip: before blaming someone or something, make sure it’s likely to be intentional first.

It has been like that since beta, it’s not a bug and it’s working as intended.

That being said, I do think that Aegis, invulns, blinds, blocks, and dodges should all cause revealed so that an enemy is rewarded for successfully countering a stealth attack.

I’m sorry, but there’s no way that you’re hitting that hard on level 80’s geared in exotics, so either you’re lying, or you’re greatly exaggerating. Second of all, unless you’re in Rampagers or something with full precision ascended trinkets and using max precision food, you’re not going to get a critical hit chance that high, and if you do, then you don’t have the power for the numbers that you claim to be getting.

I call bullkitten until you post proof.

kastro.5842:

^
Arena!!! 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc. Using our own equips (not spvp equips). No other objective than killing the other player/team.
We need something like that desperately.

Why would you want to use your own equipment? That makes absolutely no sense and is against the spirit of skill-based PvP that GW2 strives for.

Columba.9730:

Thieves in WvWvW need nerfs. Perma stealth, highest burst, fastest run speed. Not even remotely balanced.

1. There is no such thing as permanent stealth, even with culling which is ridiculously exaggerated.
2. Thieves don’t have the highest burst and the Backstab combo is so easy to counter that you have to be logged in while AFK to be killed by it (or just terrible at PvP… lol).
3. The fastest that a Thief can run is at 33% speed with the Swiftness buff which they have less access to then most classes and the Signet of Shadows only gives 25% speed buff (like every other speed signet now). Also, Thieves are supposed to be mobile, complaining about that is like complaining that Elementalists can use magic.
4. Please, stop spamming the forums about how unbalanced Thieves are; it’s ridiculous.

Sarrs.4831:

Lafiel.9372:

To be fair, I think damage should reveal stealth though or at least show faint trails of it.

IMO stealth just needs counters.

I kinda wonder why a few things aren’t part of the Boon/Condition system; Stealth, Revealed and Quickness are some of them. Being able to directly remove or flip Stealth with things like Well of Corruption, Acidic Elixirs, Null Field might work.

I am so sick of hearing that stealth needs counters, IT ALREADY HAS COUNTERS. If it didn’t have counters then no one would be able to counter it, but surprise surprise, a huge amount of players can!

Also, LOL @ Sanduskal posting his usual kitten about how stealth is a scrub crutch (only scrubs don’t use every mechanic to their advantage), and now spreading lies that you canaattack while stealthed and remain in stealth without any explanation or evidence.

Justin ODell.9517:

cymerdown.4103:

They could keep the changes to the reward system, but just not remove ranks and their finishers. Just have it as this little side progression thing, but not have it display anywhere except on your PvP menu and maybe keep the progress bar on the bottom. This way, you still get the cool new rewards, and yes glory is now gone, but rank points and the rank finishers will remain.

The finishers are not going away. You will likely have until the first ladder season to earn them. After that they can’t be earned, but you will continue to have them. If all you want is additional finishers to work toward, be sure to mention that in the rewards discussion.

Could you please reply specifically to our concerns about ranks themselves being removed? What is the point of removing them altogether when they currently (with the exception of SHF ranks) give a decent indicator of a player’s experience in PvP? Being able to show off your rank is a lot better than not.

Also, I understand that finishers are not being removed yet, but what about people like myself who are only rank 30 after a year because we don’t have a lot of time to play, but have PvP’d a lot since launch? I only have one level 80 and several level 2 PvP only characters because all I do is PvP, but I haven’t had the time to hit 50+.

How could you possibly think this is even a remotely good idea without a way to toggle it on and off? You could literally spawn camp someone for hours and stop them from doing anything in the Mists with their build.

Honestly, did you think about this for even a second before posting it, lol?

Darkeh.4539:

The only reason thieves make topics like this is because they kitten well know they are OP and they are afraid they cant play there 2 / 3 button roflcopter class anymore after the nerfs are done.

Or maybe it’s because we’re sick and tired of being hit by nerfs that don’t even make sense? Any Thief worth his salt will admit straight up that Pistol Whip was (and to an extent, still is) OP when combined with Haste (our Quickness ability), but without it, it was a mediocre skill in PvP and an excellent skill in PvE.

After the recent 15% damage nerf, it’s even worse in PvP without quickness and mediocre in PvE. In fact, it actually does less damage than the auto-attack chain! Despite the fact that the skill itself was fine without Haste, Anet still hit it with the nerf bat, rather than addressing the game wide issue of Quickness abilities.

Also, I know that I’m wasting my time here because you’re obviously either 8 years old or a troll, but have you ever actually rolled a Thief and played it for more than five minutes? Anyone who thinks that any aspect of the class is just a 2 or 3 button wonder is an absolute moron.

Tl;dr – You’re an idiot. Either learn to play, roll a Thief and learn the class before commenting, or kitten off.

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Incurafy.6329:

What they need to do is nerf all of the OP builds on each profession and then work on making builds that require skill, not this spammy crap we have in the current meta.

Define “skill.” Don’t be vague.

Sure, here you go.

LOL.

The ignorant hypocrisy coming out of your mouth is astounding. You were running a burst spec designed to take people down in 2-seconds, yet you have the nerve to complain that you were bursted down in 2-seconds by a class that has less armour than you, less health than you, and whose burst deals less damage than yours?!

Additionally you managed to survive their burst and then succesfully proceeded to burst them down! What an absolute kittening joke. It’s people like you who make this forum a kittening nightmare to navigate through.

Aether McLoud.1975:

There hasn’t been a single MMO to date where the stealthy burst archetype was balanced. It just isn’t possible.

You’re right, Thief is currently underpowered and needs some damage buffs to bring it back up on par with the other classes.

I haves sneaking suspicion that you know nothing about economics.

“Thieves are insanly OP. Trust me, my main is a Thief.”

But BV hasn’t been unbreakable since beta, and if you go and look through the patch notes they have “fixed” it multiple times. I have always been able to break out of it, so what the hell is the difference?

Simplicity.7208:

If you have doubt, go look at the thief forum, there are at least 8 different threads on the front page raging over mesmer stealth. It’s only a matter of time before the rest of the forums go into an uproar and ArenaNet knee-jerks into a nerf.

lolwat?

There is only one thread regarding Mesmers and it was posted by a Thief of dubious skill level who mistakenly believed that Mesmer’s can stealth more often than Thieves. He has since been corrected.

Don’t exaggerate, it just devalues your own thread.

Oh my reality, if that skill fact is accurate and it turns out to be every second then I’m going to uninstall. That’s just insane, especially after we’ve been repeatedly asking them to remove the passive crap in this game, not add more, lol.

I love playing GW2 PvP (well, usually, sometimes it bores or frustrates me to tears when I look at what GW1 PvP was and then compare it to… this), but I can’t stand watching it. I watched the ESL stream at one point, but I was so terribly bored by it because all I saw was a bunch of Asura (and the occasional Human/Sylvari + extremely rare Charr/Norn) running around in a blob of particle effects and AoE’s. I couldn’t tell what the hell was going on.

By comparison, in GW1 I knew what was going on because I knew the builds and what was going on, they weren’t just a cluster of AoE’s and particle effects with tiny characters. If I didn’t know what a particular skill was by looking at it, at the very least I could check the cast bar and see what they were using and learn for next time.

In GW2, there is no cast bar, and that to me is a huge detriment to PvP.

Err… what wish said. Thanks.

I love it when people with zero knowledge of programming/software engineering make statements about how easy something is to code, lol.

Those traits are viable, but mix Zerker and Soldiers, avoid Valkyrie. Also, I’d seriously consider D/P secondary.

No.

/15chars

1/10, waaaay too obvious, complaining about Heartseeker is so August 2012.

I would just like to quickly comment that the “bundle” portion of Improvisation is actually a left-over from Alpha/Beta where stealing would actually give your character a bundle with a new set of 5 skills, similar to the Elementalist summoned weapons. It is no longer applicable and hasn’t been since launch, and should be removed all together in favour of something else.

Also, I’d just like to add that I agree with Evilapprentice on the RNG aspect of Improvisation. Steal originally acted as an RNG mechanic with multiple different bundles available on stealing from another profession or enemy in PvE, but this was changed for launch to the current system to allow us to know what we would get and use that strategically. Some players may like RNG, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but the general consensus has always been that reliability is preferable to RNG.

A question for you, PopeUrban: wouldn’t you prefer if you were still able to use Improvisation for the double-utilities that you use with your build, but do so in a completely reliable way?

Good discussion so far guys, I really do hope that this thread continues to be a productive place for discussion.

My first response to this patch was to be angry and infuriated. Now that I’ve had time to think about the patch some more, I still hate it, but at least I can supply some feedback.

As an almost exclusively PvP player with only one level 80 and a bunch of low level PvP alts, I feel like this patch has completely screwed me over. Each of my characters had a carefully crafted appearance, but once the patch hit, that completely disappeared, I was given 42 charges, and then I was told that once I was out of those charges I’d have to grind to earn more or buy them with gems.

Like many, I’m one of those players who loves to change their characters looks, and my main character changed appearance every 5 minutes. Now that this patch is here, that’s no longer possible. Not only this, but now to get the full appearance of my characters back, I have to go and level them all up just to be able to access the shoulder and head skins that they previously had.

Additionally, I recently started doing a little bit of low level PvE on my low level Thief alt, so my inventory is full of PvE related items, including low level weapons and equipment that I’m swapping as I level up. Now that this patch has hit, I have to keep a separate set of armour for PvP just so that I don’t have to re-transmute every time, then I have to keep separate weapons and then try and remember which weapons have skins on them in PvP and which don’t so that I don’t sell them to a merchant.

Finally, there is now absolutely no way whatsoever to tell if a person is a high rank in PvP without them doing the /rank emote or telling you thanks to the fact that all PvE items are available in PvP. This completely devalues high rank PvP skins that were hard to obtain in PvP and easy to obtain in PvE and vice versa.

The whole thing is an absolute mess and I’m very disappointed that this patch actually made it to live without these issues being addressed. I don’t want to have to grind to get my characters back to level 11 just to get their old appearances back, I don’t want to have to grind to be able to get TC’s for when I want to change my characters appearance, and I don’t want to have to buy one of those bag things that won’t let you sell the items in it to a merchant just so that I don’t sell my PvP weapons.

The most obvious solution is to separate PvP and PvE gear again and TC’s free in the HotM. I know that’s just practically reversing what was done, but honestly? This portion of the patch is absolutely terrible and I’m still yet to actually hear the reason why it was done. Saying that it was done to combine PvP and PvE isn’t an explanation, it’s just saying what was done. Yes, you’re right, you did combine PvP and PvE, but why did you do it?

TL;DR:

• Having PvP alts is now a nightmare, we shouldn’t have to grind just to get their appearances right.
• Having PvP and PvE gear combined is a nightmare of inventory management with no locker to store the billion skins you’re not using without having to grind/pay for more TC’s.
• The wardrobe system is a complete mess, if you are a person who frequently changes your characters appearances in PvP you’re now forced to grind or buy gems in order to do so.
• Combining PvP and PvE gear devalues previously hard to obtain PvP skins, and vice versa.

Solution:

• Split PvP and PvE gear again. Make the HotM contain free TC’s.

None of this even covers the grind-gated new skills and traits, but that’s a post for another thread.

I’ve been saying this since the blog, but I’m surprised so many people didn’t know, lol…

The entire premise of PvP in GW2 as advertised and loved by many is that all skills, traits, and equipment are unlocked from the beginning to allow an equal playing field. This patch completely undermines that premise and is a kick in the face to all PvP players.

It’s an incredibly disappointing decision and I’m shocked by just how many people didn’t know about it or actually support it.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c3RV;1Rw-_06-V-Fd0;9;49T;0T2;002A;446B5BW4;2F-03F-035Bw

I cbf recording a video, go watch Caed’s Twitch videos for an example of it being used in tPvP. You can also watch him use it in the 2v2 tournaments.

Also, it’s not a duel build, it’s a team build. Fighting you 1v1 with just Shortbow would prove nothing. A weapon set doesn’t have to be used as a primary in imbalanced, irrelevant duels for it to be good.

Sanduskel.1850:

i have reported it for months. they don’t seem to care. some of us don’t need to scrub it up with perma stealth builds. sorry if that angers you.

1. Read this, it applies directly to you: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
2. It’s weird that they haven’t done anything about it yet, you have so much evidence and a really detailed explanation for it as posted above, maybe they’re just really busy? :/

Please just stop spamming our forum with your crappy threads. Seriously dude, it got old long ago.

Wtf is with the banning of Thieves and Mesmers? Lmao, what a fail.

LOL @ stealth being OP in duels, ever since the initiative nerfs permastealth has been impossible without the investment of bad traits and lengthy utilities with extremely high telegraphy, and anyone with half a brain will know where the Thief is the instant they use black powder for more stealth.

This thread has literally zero credibility, NEXT.

Seriously, just stop posting these topics. You aren’t creating healthy discussion and all of your suggestions are either ridiculous nerfs or changes to skills that are already balanced. At this point all you’re doing is spamming the forum.

“Thief’s the most OP class”

No, it’s not, so please do us a favour and stop filling our forums with your incessant whining. Think that’s just me asking? You’d be wrong, even Arena Net has made a special topic just for all of you little bads to complain in.

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

…What?! Thieves can already get away soooo easily in WvW why on earth would they EVER consider making this EASIER for them?! Along with the culling problems…..I just dont understand why they would buff stealth in ANY way right now.

rootnode.9546:

Because as a thief, you’re sooo slow. Bow, 5, done.

Maybe this is Anet saying that the Thief is SUPPOSED to be able to be fast, agile, and mobile? You know, like it says in the class description? Get used to it.

;)

Maderas.9741:

No. You do not break 3k armor running full medium exotic Dire + rabid accessories. You are wrong.

You didn’t say that you were wearing Rabid at any point in your OP, and that’s what I’m going by.

Maderas.9741:

I WAS DOWNED BEFORE I GOT HIT BY THE SECOND C&D. I CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER, SO PLEASE ALLOW IT TO REGISTER THIS TIME.

The whole “the time it took for the thief to get in range” bit is ridiculous, too. It’s not difficult for a thief to get in range of you during a team skirmish or when he runs up on you while you’re fighting someone else. So because I lack prescience and couldn’t use ESP to detect the incoming thief, I deserve to die instantly despite my gear? Right.

I haven’t read the whole thread, forgive me for going off of your OP and the first few posts. Perhaps you should be a little more specific next time, eh?

The time for the Thief to get in range is related to the fact that while you were preoccupied fighting you still should have looked around every now and then to check to see if your enemy had any reinforcements coming. This is a simple tactic that is known as “situational awareness”.

Now, if you were downed before you got hit by the second CnD, then why did you keep saying “30k damage in an instant!!111” earlier in your thread, when in reality, it was 20k?

Also, I don’t know if you’ve answered this or not, but were you carrying a stun breaker, and was it off CD?

Straegen.2938:

Shenanigans! Black powder hitting for 1.5k?!? math:

• (84 * .25 * Power) * modifiers / Toughness

lets go crazy here:

• (84 * .25 * 4000) * 4 / 2000 = 168

As for 20k BS… again the math proves it is virtually impossible (a thief with 4k power and 4 on the modifier is buffed to the gods with a perfect strike):

• ((806 * 2.4 * 4000) * 4.00) / 2000 = 15.5k

against 3k toughness

• ((806 * 2.4 * 4000) * 4.00) / 3000 = 10.3k

In these cases, IMO the combat log is flat out lying and likely clumping several hits from multiple sources into one, some chopping has been done or a bug/cheat is in effect. It is also somewhat curious that a medium health pooled player soaked up 36k damage in about 2 seconds and didn’t die.

ARE YOU MAD?! DON’T YOU KNOW THAT INTRODUCING EVIDENCE AND MATH TO THE QQ-TRAIN WILL DERAIL IT?!

How dare you attempt to shatter the frail QQ-TRAIN with hard evidence!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

You are the 1,000,000th person to post an uninformed Thief complaint thread! Click here to claim your prize!

Tonikor.5637:

Or you could mix valk/cavalier/berserker to have balanced stats on top of maximum crit damage possible which is the whole point of a backstab thief with hidden killer. * shrugs *

Personally I avoid soldiers.

Check out Wish’s “building a better D/D Thief” topic, mixing Soldier with Berseker is the best way to min/max a x/30/30/x/0 build.

I use the following for maximum damage (the runes offer the highest direct damage combination mathematically when combined with the traits and sigils):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUm6NHdy5E/5Ex2jdKUe6fgs6MoZLB-TsAg0CnIqRxljLDXSuscNKYZxkCA

Sometimes I’ll swap to D/P, depends on the mood, but both work well as long as you know the combos.

That’s intended, Dee Jay, and it’s not weird at all, it makes perfect sense. Since damage triggers revealed, having your attack evaded/reflected/blocked doesn’t count. Simple.

Raine Akrune.8416:

I didn’t have to change a single thing since I don’t utilize stealth as a combat skill. I personally love the changes and think it will help with balance when all the little glass cannon noobs need to find a new cookie cutter trick to try and win. <3

What’s hilarious is that the “little glass cannon noobs” you talk about weren’t affected by the patch in the slightest.

Get off your pedestal, not using stealth doesn’t make you superior to those of us who do.