Guild Wars 2

Have this happened to me too, looks like it’s a recent issue with this patch.

Hi Forum,

I have been actively playing the game since the release. My time in the game since the start of the year have fallen off somewhat due to lack of goals and IRL situations. Currently with the imminent release of the expansion I am starting to prepare for new PvE contents.

I was very experienced in all the dungeons and most of the classes in the game with 5k+ hours logged in the game. I would like to find a social and friendly guild and preferably with mostly adults or working professionals. I wouldn’t be able to devote my life to the game, but I am prepared to work on being towards being prepared, skilled and experienced to the new raid contents. I am looking for likely minded guilds or likely minded people.

Thanks for reading and feel free to contact here or in game for any other inquiries!

Jzl

Check pm when convenient:)

I personally don’t see too many successful dungeon speed running guilds on NA server. Unless of course you want to restrict yourself to 1 or 2 choices where it’s the culture to take optimization and maximization to the extreme. For example, if you are comfortable of guilds not willing to take any other class the the best combination, and having you to run very specific builds, they’ll be perfect. Otherwise there are not a lot of guilds that I’m aware of where you can just lfg in the gchat and get very apt players. Honestly I think it’s far better to keep a list of players you find are competent and run with them regularly, especially since you aren’t willing to guild transfer at this point. At least that’s how I got into my current guild.

We do need the forces joining to change a bit. I’m not a fan of professionism, but regardless, it’ll happen anyway, and when cases like stacking too much classes, it’s inevitable. Please make it possible to be more selective on the lfg creator’s end, I don’t like to kick people who joined my group already, I’d much rather have a way to pre-screen available.

Stooperdale.3560:

Guardians and Warriors are top tier. Every other class is second tier and might get declined/booted in favor of those two. Bad thieves die a lot and are not popular. Good thieves are fine and welcomed.

Pure warrior and guardian worship and warrior stacking etc. etc. is quite last year.

I’m glad to actually see one person here talking some common sense.

Good job on clearing the path, I respect putting in the effort for getting the path more thank anything else, regardless of how long it took.

And yes of course people will mock for taking 4 1/2 hours clearing it, it’s not like anyone ever failed Arah or took that long when they first did the path.

^If I’m selling spots I get around the account bound daily reward and you get free 60 tokens+26s+1 loot bag for essentially 0 work provided I’m selling say Arah p1p2p4 for 3g… Don’t see the problem you can also just walk past the offer if you aren’t interested, don’t see how this negatively effect anybody? As of kicking, I’d say it’s relatively rare overall, yet that’s entirely a different issue regarding dungeon leader/kicking mechanics implementation, not selling spots

The reason selling spots are more popular now is because of the change in end rewards. Think about it, selling path 1/2 for 4-5g is very profitable for a good group once first run of the day is done. Basically selling spot would be the alternative of character switching in the past. A lot of people will take 4g for 3g+60token+1loot bag in a heartbeat, hardly any loss, and the original runners basically gets the daily reward again, and also all the previous champ bags. Problem? I don’t see any, the furthest I can go with is just saying it’s taking advantage of the situation.

So OP, I’d say there are probably far more legit sellers than kickers, there are actually a lot of people who can run p1p2p4 very quickly. Unless you are the one kicked then saw someone selling your spot, and btw also that you aren’t at any fault, open your eyes a bit more. There is less morality more of service/business here.

Yesterday I saw people selling Arah p1/p2 spot for 4g each, I think it’s quite neat.

If the contention is you were going your own way killing chickens and killing yourself and some of that time the npc is following you in that process, I’d have to say in this case it’s mostly on you OP. Don’t ask for respect if you aren’t respecting others. Asking for achievements at 32 is a lot to ask for, especially if you are in a random group.

leman.7682:

This WoW-like perception of professions and their roles in GW2 always makes me laugh in a hilarious way for 5 minutes. Then I turn into offense and forcefully make those guys change their attitude or kick them from my party.

Especially since an average scholar or adventurer is better than an average soldier, given the fact they aren’t so in-your-face-I-can-take-a-hit-and-/care-becuuuz-im-a-kitten-warrior and they usually had to learn much more to be as optimal and effective as a warrior or guardian which have rather simplistic mechanics (not bashing anyone, just describing the average). I delight in making those bad players accept how wrong their are and then kicking them out of the dungeon to the filth if they don’t comply.

leman.7682:

Since when jumping on the OP is constructive? Can you please refrain from directly attacking OP for making a thread that rises a discussion about a perfectly justified issue that is the perception of classes by usually and by large bad heavy armour players?

Your behaviour was inappropriate and you should be ashamed.

WoW.. did this come from the same person? So what really happened in your life within the 6 hours of the two post to ensue such a dramatic turn of your attitude towards people? Or is it just double standard, in which case your hypocrisy and my cynicism can both be justified.

And who were talking about the WoW trinity? I thought we always talked about mitigation/damage/support, that’s the closest we get now to the so called holy trinity.

And what does "Especially since an average scholar or adventurer is better than an average soldier, given the fact … they usually had to learn much more to be as optimal and effective as a warrior or guardian which have rather simplistic mechanics " even mean? They are harder to play so it’s better? My head hurts.

Annoys me the most when I just want to get the hell out of a group.

The (nearly) facts are, thief is harder to play well, it can be good in dungeons, most pve thieves aren’t good and the general attitude is negative towards thieves.

So unless you are willing to put a lot of effort into knowing the dungeons and profession, you should go with something much easier to pickup and embraced by others. And even if you are a good thief you have to be willing to put up with people looking down on your class in general. You’d really have to be the gunslinger type really enjoy a thief in PvE.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

laokoko.7403:

So 2 player. 1 with 500 acheiemvent, another with 5000.
You telling me the “probability” of them to be skilled is the same?

I’ve never run into a 500 achievement points player when looking for people for Fractals level 20. But I myself have about 5800 achievement points, and recently I ran into a player that had 7000 achievement points. Does that make him a better player than me?

You tell me.

If there are one thousand people with 7000 points and another thousand with 5800, then yes overall the average of 7000 group will be better than 5800. Again, probability and probability, sample size and data point. Talking about matters such as achievement points and skill is about the bulk average, not about certain individual, ie yourself, as a standard.

^Picking out a very specific counter case to counter an entire argument is a very common strategy to argue on the internet, ie “some-one-one can be playing on one char so he has less points so he might be as good as all though others that played way longer with 5000 points”. People don’t seem to understand the distinction between probability and possibility.

I say just let it go.

@DanH,

Perhaps you took it too literally.

Late to the discussion, so I guess it’s either make the thieves players better or make Anet make thief OP.

Go with thief if you like a challenge and are bothered with learning the ins and outs of every mechanic in PvE. Also if you are the type that is not so easily effected by the mainstream school of though and attitudes. Thief is not the most huggy lovable profession easily embraced by every random person you come across, you might even come across some discrimination once a while. But the class has it’s merits and you could pleasantly surprise other people if you are very good at it, some people like that feeling, if you know what I’m talking about.

I have a warrior and decked the char out with all the glittering gears, but a lot of the times I used it solely to make people happy. I still like playing on my thief a lot more. But there is also one thing I have to admit which is despite I love my thief I actually don’t enjoy running into thieves in random group. Most just don’t do thieves justice at least in terms of PvE And by PvE I’d assume you are talking about dungeons, since general open world I don’t think any class matters and leveling is only a small portion of your playtime on a char in the long run anyway.

How many times to we really have to go through this?

You can’t just walk into an established culture with very clear expectations/standards and start criticizing because it doesn’t suit you… The rate we are seeing these posts is just sad. At least I can say what I like about the CoF runners is that they are fairly clear and specific about what they what to do and who they want to do it with, as opposed to actions like,

Lyndis.2584:

Sticky this please so you teach all the noobs how to do it properly elitists.

well my parents taught me not to say anything if I don’t have anything nice to say, so this is all I had to say.

I’m becoming increasingly attached to my level 2 asura ranger who is level 5 now.

swiftpaw.6397:

I feel there should be a hard mode path added to each dungeon with a separate set of skin.

Same dungeon weapons with different colours would suffice. It doesn’t really matter what skin or if the skins looks good, as long as it actually means something.

There is nothing conflicting in say, I acknowledge low achievement points players may be very skill and not willing to take chances with low points players. What do you think is more probable? A player have low achievement point because he/she is actually new, or he/she has a 5k point account laying around but are just playing on this one for whatever reason.

Points is just another imperfect measure of skill and experience that people uses, don’t hate it, it says something but not everything. Pugging isn’t always smooth, if you can’t even resolve such trivial things you are going to have a hard time doing random pugs all the time and perhaps it’s just not for you.

swiftpaw.6397:

Jzl.8715:

^They do at least on this forum.

I thought I was a nice person T_T

You represent the lovely side <3

(says you are in CoE btw, are you just auto attacking?)

^They do at least on this forum.

Wethospu.6437:

You guys seem to be very eager to shoot down any different idea and then usually proceed to laugh after it. While you are usually correct, I personally dislike what it is doing to the community.

Just going to quote this for truth, er.. I mean, my opinion. This subforum is essentially the chatroom of a few guilds for now, indeed is a bit scary to see organized groups jumping on people.

New season of Top Gear starts at July 8th.

swiftpaw.6397:

Jzl.8715:

Broadicea.8294:

..my scientifically accurate assessment is that the ranger class attracts the worst players in the game, period.

Um no, Thieves do. Not only do they possess all the bad qualities one may sometime associate with rangers, they are also very kitten kitteny.

GUYS I GOT THIS!!! SHORTBOW 1 WHOLE DUNGEON!

kitten thief op!

In my defense, I feel no remorse when there is a guardian even further behind throwing wiggly projectiles.

Basically what I’m trying to say when i say kitten kitteny is “overly confident and self-assertive”, don’t mistaken it as something truly nasty, just throwing this out there. Man this forum is harsh

Broadicea.8294:

..my scientifically accurate assessment is that the ranger class attracts the worst players in the game, period.

Um no, Thieves do. Not only do they possess all the bad qualities one may sometime associate with rangers, they are also very kitten kitteny.

swiftpaw.6397:

Jzl.8715:

swiftpaw.6397:

Agreed. I’m still here because I need to pay off my last legendary T_T
Enjoy your summer.

I thought you got your legendary quite a while now.

My second one XD

If you are looking for higher end dungeons especially CoE you can find me, I’m looking into a bolt.

Is this your daily LFG fail post or something. No screenshot this time though how come.

swiftpaw.6397:

Agreed. I’m still here because I need to pay off my last legendary T_T
Enjoy your summer.

I thought you got your legendary quite a while now.

Refrained to post it here back then in general discussion because I know most people won’t find it popular. This recent patch of same old rng boxes random activities and gem store skins really put me off. Haven’t bothered with the last two month of events and was waiting for something substantial, and now here we go again. So here it is:

Lets Talk about End Game Again.

Another month, another patch with mini activities and random reward boxes and gem shop skins. Where are the meaty things? Without something substantial, without an actual goal or challenging content all these distractions are really meaningless.

I’ll be back when summer is over, and see what’s what.

Ok so a Taylor Swift reference.. So what am I missing here, the humor?

yea I hate thieves.

2) Rewards Rewards and Rewards

We (as a player and developer) should all embrace the fact that when designing challenging content, it should not be designed for everyone. I do understand Anet’s philosophy of allowing all players to access all contents, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. People complain about this from 2 perspective, either we don’t get to “see” some content because it’s too hard, or some better rewards are available only at those unreachable difficulties. Don’t really want to comment on those mindsets, but if it is of the best interest to cater to those mindsets and circumvent the problems, then have difficulty levels (like in GW1 and FotM) and title/cosmetic rewards associated with them. I know a lot of people get caught up in the so called rewards, either gear or prestige items. To me gears are means to an end, and I don’t care about the so called time/reward ratio, I don’t want money or gear just for the sake of it, I’ll only be after them if I need it to accomplish something else worthy.

Seriously, I think the people who (merely) want challenging content are the easiest to cater to, just make things harder, and then give them something that shows them they’ve been there done that. It doesn’t even have to be something that is better than everyone elses’, a miniature, a different coloured weapon, a piece or strangely glowing rock.. that is it. *Don’t exclude the majority from the shinys gated by difficulty, but do give people a wall to bash their head with if they wanted one. *

3) Designing Challenging Content

This is what I always thing about GW2: the gameplay-wise it has more akin to action games, ie Dark Souls, DmC, Diablo, Torchlight, than the majority of MMO’s out there. fundamentally it’s more about movement/position, it’s more about timing, it’s more about mitigation than socking up damage. GW2 was advertised as an action MMO in it’s initial heydays, we should start looking at the boss designs in this way, instead of merely projectiles and red circles. I really would love to see bosses like Dark Souls and Diablo in GW2.

4) All in all

I’ll have to admit I am a little disheartened by the general direction, at least at the endgame department, that Anet is taking in the past half a year or so. Hats off to all the free content we are greeted with every month. However, to me difficulty is a pillar of a game like GW2, we didn’t have enough of that at launch, and it wasn’t addresses as much in the past half year of updates. If the current way of updates really is the best way to monetize their game and business, then I guess I will have nothing say about it. To be honest, I do agree that from a business perspective, simply making challenging content isn’t as appealing, since it is very hard to translate that directly into profit. Sure, if I’m a business man and a bit on the cynical side, I will want you to move on from content to content and get things associated with it from the store, instead of chewing on the same challenging dungeon for 2 months. Just like they can make your car last for 30 years no problem by they do 10 instead.

Inspired by this video by Dontain, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3F_ZcvR-pg), Watch (Listen?) the video at least, if you don’t aren’t reading the wall of text.

Oh and I really like this vid too, WoW haters avoid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo

Disclaimer: First of all I’m merely representing myself, and anyone else that share similar opinions. This is simply about what I desire from GW2 at this point, and my idea of how it will best benefit the game. Secondly, this is not a critique on whether GW2 is a good or bad game, or my cynical view over everyone else’s of what direction the game should take. I do fully respect the developers vision of the game and expect the even possibility of not sharing the same vision. In short, feel free to agree to disagree.

Endgame, Challenge and Reward in a Non-Vertical Progression MMO

I think it’s time we talk about end game, not so we can beat the dead horse all over again, but rather to see if we can bring some life back to it. Whether it be because those people have left and moved on, or the current new contents provides enough of a distraction, people definitely seems to be talking about it less now. I believe we have arrived at a critical point in the game, where:

• We have a good grasp of the overall content of the game.
• The next development stage will define the future of GW2, and so
• For a lot of people, this is the time to decide if this is time to move on or stay for another 2 years.

1) Current State of PvE:

I guess I’ll just get straight to it, for an MMO, GW2 is too easy, beyond belief easy. Please don’t be too quick to flip off your chair and call me an elitist just yet. This has nothing to do with how good at games I am, in fact it’s because of the exact opposite. I don’t consider myself a hardcore or a great gamer. I do however enjoy a little challenge, with perhaps 80% of my attention and effort instead of 150%, play most games on a bit over average difficulty, see games as a form of entertainment, and hate to have a work-like attitude/commitment/dedication to any sort of games.

So it’s rather strange to me, and a few of my friends (3 of them), that we have completed all of the supposedly “face meltingly hard” explorable-mode dungeons within 3 months of release of the game. (Can’t remember exactly, but I’m pretty sure we got our dungeon master title a fair bit before the Lost Shores patch, because by November 2 of them already left the game.)

I think Arenanet has the tendency to assume something will be “too hard” or “hard enough” for the player base. We see this over and over again, release dungeons, FotM etc and etc. For those of you who had been following Diablo 3, you will definitely remember the quote of “we took what the developer thought was hard, and then we doubled it”. I don’t want to give to much credit to Wilson et al, but I do think that is the attitude a developer should take when developing hard content. Mr Colins said some interesting things about dungeons near release of the game. (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Do-NOT-nerf-please/first#post126835) This is not to be dis-respectable to any stretch of the imagination, but I do believe there are a lot of people out there that will be far beyond the skills of the alpha testers.

It’s often sad to me to see how GW2 have arguably the best combat system, the most diverse fluent and deep build systems in an MMO, but lacking the true challenging content to fully exploit them. I do find it a little strange that as of now, the only scenario where we are getting into the nitty-gritty of builds are doing speed kill. As of the current meta, it’s not that fundamentally dps is king in GW2, it’s just nothing really called for great support or control roles. For instance, blind is good, daze is good, but in a reality where nothing is that deadly in the first place, there will be no place for them.

randomfightfan.4091:

@ Jzl

I’m honestly not sure about thieves guild and team buffs but I’m pretty sure they don’t hog up any team boons. Pretty sure they’re like mesmer clones in that their stats increases proportional to the caster’s stats. Saying this cause whenever I cast the melee clone, its autos usually do just as much damage as my autos (slower though). Also, whenever I’ve cast them and someone else was giving boons, I’ve never noticed anyone not getting said boons.

I’m asking this is out of curiosity and also because I know for a fact that Venomous aura do apply to summoned thieves, but what I’m not sure of is the number limit for that is, doubt it’s unlimited though, but would be interesting if you can abuse it on 9 summoned thieves. Some say AoE buffs (boons) all have a limit of 5, but it gets confusing sometimes.

Regardless though, I’m not doubting a thief damage wise but more on utilities. There are a lot of things thieves have to put up with in every phase and give away some dmg, it just doesn’t feel as tight as a warrior where everything just comes together. Should still give it a try sometime though.

Broadicea.8294:

-snip-

Everything starts with an idea, any there will always be people opposing any untried theories. Regardless of whether it’s actually possible in practice, one thing we can say 100% for certain is that scorn and sarcasm doesn’t really fuel much into making something a reality. But yea, it’s also true that gaming communities aren’t where mutual respect flourishes either.

I really do hope more can see this as a good thing. GW2 at the current state doesn’t provide much for the hardcore players to dig deep into numbers and strategies despite its arguably deep class build system. This is actually one of the few instances where something sparks that kind of conversation, and this is something the game desperately needs for now. Or on the other hand, you can also focus on the so called imbalance side and ask for nerf or buff or laugh at anyone else that thinks otherwise. I’m personally not bothered that much though, there’s always a class or some classes perceived to be on top, there is always a man, always a city, always a kittening light house, and always a class that needs to be nerfed.

Thieves definitely have a good possibility to out dps warriors with thieves guild and later on in p2 after health pass 50%.

Thieves will be a lot weaker in p1, not as bursty and also lacks cleave with daggers. Also lacking inst cast stability that don’t interfere with normal attack in p3, 3 thieves 2 mes there are no strong group stability too, that combined with the fact that fully dps thieves will most likely will died with 2 ticks of any form of attack.

On paper it’s very interesting and may even have a chance to work, will be very hard to execute though.

Question for the expert thieves: How does thieves guild skill with the caster damage wise and does group boons work on them as well?

Yea with debuff sure, and according to chat someone didn’t know what they were doing.

I do see quite a few frequent visitors to this forum who love arguing for the sake of arguing. And the pattern they tend to follow is they hold on to a certain point very dearly, and are able to divert any sort of non-related topics to that particular argument.

This skill and gear thing was really sort of getting old, a very long time ago. You can’t extract and proof of skill the first meeting someone, best you can do is extrapolate that from proof of experience, such as gears, achievement points, titles etc. And of course experience doesn’t necessarily always correlate to actual skill, it’s not about saying something like only the geared and experienced players are good, it’s about working with what information there is and taking the best chances.

And yea of course there are good players out there at either end of the scale, and I’m sure your friend’s friend’s nephew’s grandson’s BFF can do anything with 0AR, but hello data points? When someone is pugging they are selecting someone from a crowed, you look at the general characteristics of the crowed, not the exceptions. And in general people with better gear more achievement points more AR do tend to be more competent.

It’s not even like I’m for gear checking and fluffykittens like that, I actually hate it. It’s just there are just so many misconceptions and pigeon hole arguments everywhere. I never put link your gear link your tokens link your AR, just experienced when intending a fast run. I will try to believe it when they say they are experienced, then they are experienced. Not just a few times I run into people with 800 achievement points when calling for a very experienced Arah/FotM group, I might ask them if he/she is a fresh 80, and sometimes they tell me there is nothing to worry about he/she’s done this countless time, so I’ll be like, -alright-, and prepared to be either impressed or.. um, unimpressed. If it’s the latter, (which turn out to be most of the times really) then the actions depends, maybe a seat on the blocklist if his attitude and extent of dishonesty deserves it, and call it a day. We’re taking chances with pugs after all.

Work day afternoon sucks, such a slow day too. Let’s argue more about GW2.

Perhaps the misconception is to think that all players should be friendly. And part of the issue is not putting in the effort to find likely minded players. Specify that you are new, and here is a tip, even when looking for pugs, form your own group and ask politely in your lfg for a guide to help you through and explain the fights, you’d actually be surprised how many people are willing to join and help you.

I have played a thief for a long time in PvE, but not in fractals (leveled my warrior in there), but I used to play with a very good thief in the team when we were leveling.

As far as playstyle, I don’t think it really matters. One thing I think of thieves in fractals is it can contribute a lot to a successful run, but you can’t really carry a team. If you already have an abundance of projectile blocking/protection/aegis in the team, you can trait for purely dps oriented builds. The only thing I would advice against is probably main hand dagger or pistol, because I don’t really regard single target dps as important in the most of the harder encounters, and they are less evasive than a sword or shortbow.

As for traits, probably the only mandatory tree is 30 in Critical Strikes. Traits in the Critical Strikes line are very flexible, it also gives you decent damage boost even if you are more support oriented, and some initiative regen. For other trait lines:

• Deadly Arts for raw output, I don’t find any traits there very appealing though
• Shadow Art, maybe 10 if you really want to take advantage of Deception skill recharge, the most useful skills that a thief has (Stealth), Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder, and Smoke Screen are all under Deception.
• Aerobatics are good for survival, but I don’t usually go beyond 15.
• Trickery is great if you want some serious initiative regain combined with Critical Strikes.

If you need something to start off, I’ll say try Sword/Pistol with Shortbow, it goes well with many builds, and trait 0/30/15/0/25. I like pistol more with sword because it’s blind is more reliable as opposed to blind on stealth which has the limitation of revealed, and it’s a smoke field. Not the best dps builds, but you can spam blind all day long with large initiative pool and rather quick refill rate, dodge nonstop. And with Sword you don’t really need to worry about condition removal as well, #2 skill is great skill, it’s like spam-able dodge, cond removal and gap closer all in one . I think it is a rather intuitive and easy to play thief build that highlights the strength of permanent blind and stealth, makes some of the more annoying encounters like arms seals and Rabsovich or Ascalon a lot easier.

Good luck with your thief, I played mine the most of my chars yet still enjoy it the most by far. It’s quick and demands a lot from your quick reflexes, survival basically relies on evasive skills, there isn’t any oh crap buttons to push, and you don’t really get a change for second thoughts. Have fun!

Just a minor tooltip error for thieves I guess, problem as stated in the title. Mousing over PW shows Larcenous strike as part of tooltip, happens only when out of combat.

If you expect fun as facerolling through the last (generally regarded as the hardest) path of the last set of (generally regarded as the hardest) dungeon for the first time with no prior experience nor running with experienced players, I think you need to re-access your expectation and also your sense of reality.

They will be doing that with the feature items like custom arena and spectator mode, don’t think that’s the general model for the actual playable contents, since they don’t tend to disclose them ahead of time far enough to make it into schedule, I guess because they can hotfix with their server technologies anyway.

Auesis.7301:

Jzl.8715:

Auesis.7301:

Jzl.8715:

Auesis.7301:

yarpen.1364:

PS.
You really can melee kraits on some 30+? They hit like truck and love to stack this aoe poison which just kicks kitten
Still engi can just throw grenades here.
And on final boss engi can just throw nades dealing massive damage, warrior with speargun? We all know how it works.

Meleeing Krait at 30+ and 40+ is a breeze on Thief. I usually end each fight at full health, never getting hit at all. Whoever designed Spear #3 and #5 wasn’t thinking clearly.

I do believe that shadow assult only hits 1 target.

It does. And?

Thought that was enough to explain..

It’s single target, it’s low dps, sure you can melee and not die as a thief, but then who’s doing the bulk of the work?

But at the end of the day, thief has low dps potential multi-target wise underwater anyway. The usual melee argument has to do with efficiency and a thief up in melee range doesn’t really do anything in that favor, especially not in the case of Kraits encounters. (extremely useful however in say HotW p2p3) You probably be better off killing a single mob faster staying at range and spam 2 instead of up their face and spam 5.

Anyway, just found it funny how you said meleeing in huge krait packs as a thief as an awesome thing.

At what point did I say that all I do is spam #5? That’s a pretty strange conclusion to come to when I mention both #3 and #5, but whatever. Hell, #2 is nice situationally, as well.

Thief has bad AoE DPS underwater? Spear is ridiculous for that. Don’t know what you’re smoking.

My usual opening is a few Shadow Assaults after Stealing ahead and grabbing the attention of all the Krait, essentially tanking all the aggro for a while, then opening up raw DPS when the aggro begins to diverge with Nine-Tailed Strike. They drop like flies and I’m almost always completely healthy during the process.

I would give ANYTHING for any of my other 5 classes to have the underwater potential of my Thief.

You are right and a better thief than I am then, I think that’s the only logical thing that can be concluded.