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On my ranger I can have 2 6 sec invulnerability skills, one of which is a stunbreak, another stunbreak that is an evade and gives vigor, +50% endurance regen for 5 trait points, 20 seconeds of stability from my elite, a block on greatsword, and evade on its autoattack. And if I had to choose between my s/p thief and my lb, gs ranger it would be the thief, not even a close call. Make a glass cannon ranger in wvw and try it out, you will see. But of course you could run it with s/d gs, that would be hilarious.
I played ranger up to level 80 and didn’t really enjoy it, otherwise I actually might give it a shot honestly. Are you saying you kill everyone with thief or are you saying thief is the only thing that kills your ranger? Regardless the original intent of this thread was that the new IR sucks, not the entirety of balance of thief (most people think it’s one of the weakest anyhow with ranger as well).
If this one skill was too good then they should have found a better way to balance it rather than completely butcher it, that is the main problem. For me personally they’ve completely ruined how enjoyable it is to use this weapon set, I really loved the mobility it offered.
When you say WORST defense in game, what do you think about? A full zerker thief with 10k HP, right? I played a full zerker Longbow ranger in wvw, and my defensive options compared to thief were apalling. Also being ranged never stopped good thieves from closing the gap and killing me rather quickly.
And since you put it like that, it is not about 1 thing. IR is not the only option of getting out of hard CC. It was a bloody good one I’ll give you that, I loved it as well. I ran away from soooo many zergs after I’ve been hit by static fields its rediculous. It just wasn’t right. For 5 inits (7 seconds of untraited init regen before dec 10 patch) it was very very cheap.
Of course your defensive options are worse considering you’re using a weapon with the best range in the game (if traited). This is honestly your fault for expecting to have great survivability using longbow when any enemy is close. You do have a weapon swap and S/X has amazing defense through their massive amounts of dodges, especially S/D. Even greatsword has an evade on auto-attack, a block, swoop which works well as a gap closer and a great way to flee and a decent daze/stun.
We’re the only class without some form of access to protection, we have limited access to regeneration and only one way to get stability (Dagger Storm a 90s cool-down elite). This is the reason we go with more berserk gear than anything. We can’t stay on people like other classes can with high access to stability, protection and regeneration, which means we’re still dodging around even if we’re in PVT gear which in turn makes our damage very bad.
been pleading, asking, begging for the continuation of the pve/pvp skill split for as long as i could remember.
one can only hope that anet would actually listen and make their lives easier with balancing — and not keep screwing over pve players with pvp balances all the time
The problem is it isn’t even a nerf needed in sPvP, at worst they should have nerfed the return range in sPvP and left it alone everywhere else.
You can also learn the distances that different sets/classes can hit you from. Stay outside of that while hitting and moving. Also, they haven’t increased the initial cast, so you can still use that. If you see a class you KNOW is going to CC, don’t blow it right off the bat to get there. Bring them closer to an area where you have some kind of other “enemy” to target. See the knockback coming? Tab that, then use 2. You are out of range of the attack, there for not stunned. 9 out of 10 warriors are going to blow the rest of their cc trying to chain it after that regardless of whether it hits you or not. Everyone should work on their reaction time, it’s a good thing to be quick on…for more than just a game.
Most melee weapons have the same or greater distance than thief 1h sword, so not sure what you mean by hitting people while remaining out of their range. Do you mean you’re both fighting at the edge of your range and you’re waiting for them to use and attack that either slows their movement or roots them, or do you mean you’re getting out of their range and using FS (not even an option for S/P) to get in and hit them then getting out of their range again?
Even with that you still didn’t post any reason why the skill (we’re talking return, not strike here) is fine. You say to use IS as a dodge and even then IS also has a cast time (as in it can’t be used while other skills like IR was able to).
Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Thief should be this class that if played perfectly can never be hit, but in it’s current state with S/X we can evade just slightly more than any number of classes that have vigor on crit such as Guardian’s Vigorous Precision, Elementalist’s Renewing Stamina and Mesmer’s Critical Infusion, while all 3 of those classes have access to stability and protection.
Lastly you give a scenario of fighting a brain-dead warrior, not really sure what you’re trying to prove with that.
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Just adapt. If you can’t, play something else. This is a MMO, changes happen all the time. Oh and just putting it out there, if you could play well before….that isn’t just going to magically change. You should know how to avoid stuns without having to rely on return. People put to much into just one build. Learn to play the game, and your class. Don’t just fret over something stupid. Thief is fine.
I’m sorry but unlike many other classes Thief lacks stability, protection, aegis and blocks. It depends on using stealth, dodges and shadow steps to avoid damage, they just got rid of the latter. Not to mention it just feels clunky now, either they need to restore the old IR and if they truly feel it was too good, then they should find another way to nerf it or out-right change the function of it. As it stands the skill ruins the S/D and S/P.
Keep in mind Cloak and Dagger damage in sPvP is still reduced by 33%, a change that was made to reduce the spike of Mug > C&D > Assassin’s Signet > BS is still there. The 4 second revealed also remains in sPvP which has not been needed since culling was completely removed (yes is existed in sPvP before, but it wasn’t nearly bad as WvW culling). So I’m not even expecting a fix any time soon, but hopefully I’m wrong.
Oh don’t get me wrong, I absolutely hate the change. If they felt it was too good, then they could have made a change to it that didn’t out-right butcher the skill into being completely useless. As it stands IR is more of an annoyance than help, if they leave it the way it is I would rather them just out-right remove it so we have access to a gap closer without having to deal with the clunkiness of the new return function.
When you get hit by multiple CC’s by multiple people all focusing you, you will die. That’s how this game works. Guardians will die, Warriors will die. Anyone will die.
As Thieves, we have more ways to avoid getting stuck in such a horrible position in the first place. That’s the entire point of our class.
These classes have a boon called, “stability” and often protection to allow them to do this. Who do you think are the ones doing massive CC to you in the first place? I’ll give you a hint it’s not purely Elementalists.
While I agree Thieves aren’t meant to remain in the fray of a large battle, they were able to go in do some burst and teleport out and switch to ranged if you need to recover. That option only works every 50 seconds (40 traited) now in zergs. Currently we’re mostly stuck as blast finisher support now in zergs.
It is currently for 3 initiative:
- gap closer
- 1s immob
for 2 more initiative:
- escape when not stunned
- remove 1 condition
With the new base regen that means you can gap close and immobilize and remove a condition every 5 seconds. Even if you spread that initiative over 4 skill slots that skill can be used every 20 seconds.
Jon
It’s an initial gap closer with 600 range (Warrior, Elementalist and Ranger have 1200 and 1100 range gap closers) so generally you have to combine it with steal or a utility to actually close the gap. 1 condition removed every 5 seconds on a universal cool-down, which isn’t crazy considering thief’s lack of condition cleanse options.
With the nerf you’ll obviously be losing the escape when not stunned function, you’ll also be losing the ability to use it as a dodge, yes 1/3rd of a second isn’t long (I thought you originally listed 1/4?) but keep in mind dodge is instant. Thief is currently the squishiest class as we have no stability (outside of cancelling an elite), lowest tiered HP pool, very few condition removals, no protection, no aegis and no regeneration outside of stealth spec builds and a 30s ICD trait (Pain Response). IR nerf coupled with the vigor nerf is just asking for thieves to be free kills for the majority of classes honestly.
If you add any cast time add like a .01s cast time so it’s still instant, but can’t be used while stunned and give us more access to stun breaks or stability, otherwise I truly believe that his change will ruin sword MH as many have stated.
1 nanosecond is too long. This skill needs to work while stunned and during stomps unless we’re getting protection and stability in this same patch.
Yeah I stated unless they add stability or more access to stun breaks, otherwise I agree it should be left alone. In all honesty though, I really rather them leave it than add stability. Throwing in stability and possibly protection will just make thief feel like a warrior on some level, one of the main points of thief is to move fast and hit hard, standing there through CC and hard hits wouldn’t feel right.
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It is currently for 3 initiative:
- gap closer
- 1s immob
for 2 more initiative:
- escape when not stunned
- remove 1 condition
With the new base regen that means you can gap close and immobilize and remove a condition every 5 seconds. Even if you spread that initiative over 4 skill slots that skill can be used every 20 seconds.
Jon
It’s an initial gap closer with 600 range (Warrior, Elementalist and Ranger have 1200 and 1100 range gap closers) so generally you have to combine it with steal or a utility to actually close the gap. 1 condition removed every 5 seconds on a universal cool-down, which isn’t crazy considering thief’s lack of condition cleanse options.
With the nerf you’ll obviously be losing the escape when not stunned function, you’ll also be losing the ability to use it as a dodge, yes 1/3rd of a second isn’t long (I thought you originally listed 1/4?) but keep in mind dodge is instant. Thief is currently the squishiest class as we have no stability (outside of cancelling an elite), lowest tiered HP pool, very few condition removals, no protection, no aegis and no regeneration outside of stealth spec builds and a 30s ICD trait (Pain Response). IR nerf coupled with the vigor nerf is just asking for thieves to be free kills for the majority of classes honestly.
If you add any cast time add like a .01s cast time so it’s still instant, but can’t be used while stunned and give us more access to stun breaks or stability, otherwise I truly believe that his change will ruin sword MH as many have stated.
To start out I’d like to say thanks for communicating with us now and actively taking suggestions. I’ll point out some things I like and am disappointed with the current changes listed.
Initiative Changes/Traits
I think this is obviously the best change and I’m glad you guys are doing it.
Opportunist would obviously be too good if left the way it is with the new regeneration, but it might be under-performing a bit with the new change, but honestly it’s still not a bad trait regardless.
Quick Recovery I honestly don’t see anyone taking this trait now, unless they went 20 into acrobatics and nothing else even remotely appeals to them. Leaving it at 2 initiative would once again be too good obviously so perhaps add an extra function or even just change the trait completely to make it attractive again.
Infiltrator’s Return
This is by far the biggest nerf (assuming you’re using S/X) and I also agree that this would most likely kill and S/X build for any part of the game. Infiltrator’s Return is needed to survive in pretty much every part of the game, and will be even more so with the vigor nerfs.
If shadow step stomping is truly one of the major reasons for this to be nerfed then why not make it is if you were ever out of range of the target to stomp then it will fail, is that not possible to code in? If not is there no way to change the stomp function to be interrupted by any action used?
The other reason you guys gave for this nerf is stun mitigation and well I partially agree on this, but the problem is thief is one of the squishiest classes in the game and we have no access to stability. I do have a possible solution (assuming it could be coded in) how about have it so Infiltrator’s Return’s return range is lessened to 400ish while stunned?
Hard to Catch
Once again I still don’t think this trait will be useful, truthfully I like Phys' idea that all shadow step skills become a stun break with ICD and if the reducing Infiltrator’s Return’s range while stun is possible, then this could bring back the range while the trait isn’t on cool-down of course.
Vigorous Recovery/Bountiful Theft
I still think 5 seconds on VR will not be enough, please bump it to at least 6 seconds to try. Bountiful Theft 10 seconds is fine, but please make it so the trait steals boon stacks.
Misc Changes
Pistol Whip, Sundering Strikes, Trickster and Infusion with Shadow changes I’m all very happy to see.
Assassin’s Retreat should just be out-right changed to something else, buffing the swiftness duration doesn’t make this trait anymore attractive. Please just make it something like a 25% movement speed with melee weapons.
Flanking Strikes I already considered under-performing when you compare it to Thrill of Crime and Uncatchable for some builds, not sure this is suited as a master trait unless you add something else to it.
One last thing not related to current list of changes. Can you please reduce the cool-down on out of range steal to 1-2 seconds? 4 seconds is kind of ridiculous, especially considering you can stand right at the edge of the range where the red line range indicator under steal isn’t showing and it will still fail like you’re not in range, which also honestly needs to be fixed.
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This does seem rather not good considering the DPS for PW is just slightly higher than auto-attack DPS if I recall correctly. I would like to see the after cast speed increased and allow you to cancel out of it with dodge and/or auto-attack even if it’s just the first two or three slashes to avoid cancelling right as the skill is done (even though you can do that with movement already, but there’s still the delay before doing an actual attack after cancelling it with movement instead of going right into it). This way you’re not really meant to land the entirety of the PW the first few tries, but as the fight goes on and you keep track of their endurance you’ll be able to land more of it.
As stated before the DPS isn’t really that much better than AA damage (sorry I don’t have the math to back it up, I just recall people doing the math before), so I don’t think this would make it OP, although only testing will truly tell.
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I think the main issue with the ability responsiveness is that skills won’t cancel 1 attack animation, I understand why from balancing stand-point, but not going to lie I would be incredibly happy if they allowed you to cancel out of 1 attack with other skills (like you currently can with some utilities, dodge and heal skills). That being said, some skills are worse offenders than others, namely the ones you listed. To add on to it I feel Cluster Bomb also has the tendency to feel unresponsive.
EDIT: Though I’d like to mention that you can cancel out 1 attack with Black Powder and Cloak and Dagger, Head Shot and Disabling Shot, those are the only ones I can think of though.
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It would destroy the shadow trap skill though, which relies on the enemy triggering the trap and shadowstepping to him in stealth with might stack and fury. It’s an element of surprise (like feinting an escape while actually luring him in a trap).
It’d also make “Hide in shadows” rather inferior because it’s supposed to open a breathing space for thieves. Low-stealth builds rely on the stealth for either a surprising element (on backstab for example) or to create a small breathing space. Making them targettable for the first 1-1.5 second would negate that function and technically change them in “non-stealth” builds.
So imho, no
(Intelligent enough answer for you? There are some haters here yeah but I do agree that this suggestion would influence a lot of builds)
Thank you and certainly very valid points. That being said they could possibly make it so some utilities do have full stealth duration. Honestly though that would probably just end up making it a jumbled mess and of course mess with stealth stacking in general.
Truthfully I posted this more on a whim from a discussion I had a with a friend and thought it was kind of an interesting idea, obviously skills and traits would have to tuned to the new mechanic. Anyhow I was also hoping that it would possibly spark discussion of other ways stealth could be more enjoyable to use and fight against whether it be a huge mechanic overhaul or just small changes to how certain things work.
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Honestly I don’t really feel like I’m being greatly challenged through this fight. I do certainly enjoy fighting the new Teq, he is certainly well done and fun to fight, but on a personal skill level I truly don’t feel like I’m being challenged that hard. The true challenge is just having people coordinate which just isn’t working yet for most servers it seems.
This has kind of made me torn between my opinion on whether this needs to be nerfed or not (definitely shouldn’t be so early, give it at least a week minimum). I am hopeful people will learn where and what they should be doing at all times.
I will say the problem doesn’t even purely come down to everyone’s personal skill level, I’ve seen some commanders try to have people stack outside of 900 range which is just not smart. You can have a good bunch of players, but if you have a bad commander leading then you’re not going to succeed. So yeah, if people are still consistently failing after a week or two I definitely think it should be nerfed as much as I hate to say it, the rewards (so far) don’t equal the difficulty of this fight as is.
My god you’re a genius, this will undoubtedly help defeat Teq. Just pray you’re not on a weird server where people actually like Nickel Back.
also youre able to flanking strike the air and get the boon steal option, when just about every other class in the game has to hit you to get their attack chains to move to the next skill, jus sayin
Most Thieves mainly only care about LS when people are either blocking or have tons of boons, otherwise they’d rather have FS pop up instead of having to dodge cancel LS for another FS to stay in (or buy time). So I’m sure most would actually consider that a buff especially if you’re fighting someone not relying on boons.
EDIT: Also keep in mind the fact that if it didn’t pull up LS on block (which is generally the same function as missing), then there’s be no point for LS to actually be unblockable…
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haters gonna hate
Indeed they are!
3 thieves in our guild would murder you 1on1
1. Triggerless
2. Beautykills
3. Incarnadynetake your pick next time we face up
Interesting… those names mean nothing to me! Hmm think I’m now getting a handle on these forums, don’t post any actual intelligent comments, just simply act like a stupid jerk! Lets see if you have any suggestions I can go troll /sarcasm
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no, we’re getting reveal counter, quit crying
and gg
Ah now I remember why I stopped posting on these forums, can’t post something and expect an actual intelligent response. I must be in the LoL forums or something, I see why devs rarely post now.
P.S. SWaG guild is pitiful, my friends and I had fun slaughtering you guys while being out numbered a couple of months back.
Yeah must be fun rolling a phant mes, doing 13k on auto. Or a warrior doing 9k. I can do 8k if I’m in stealth, if I crit, and if I hit you in the back. Even traited with +50% speed, a good player can avoid my backstab.
My main is Thief and has been so since beta, the only other class I play regularly is Elementalist and that’s mainly for fractal runs. SPvP, general PvE, dungeon runs and WvW I’m usually using my Thief. Now if you read, I stated I personally have no issue with the current state of invisibility, although find it kind of dull to play as and against. I realize some people love the current stealth system and would hate to see any changes to it and I personally see no problem with that.
That being said look at the current trend between all the complainers (I do agree they should learn how to actually fight against a thief, but I do agree with the complaint about fighting against them isn’t enjoyable) and the fact that the devs are at least exploring a way to make a hard counter to stealth which just doesn’t sit well with me.
If you take those things into consideration you wonder if there is a way that makes using stealth useful, challenging and enjoyable to use as well fight against. I’m merely making a suggestion towards the mechanic as whole, obviously Thief has other issues such as lack of sustained damage outside of two weapon sets (S/D PvP, S/P PvE), lack of 1200 range and having any build that can do okay damage and survive more than 4 hits but that’s not what this thread is about.
I’ll just paste my friend’s suggestion that we were discussing. I had posted it somewhere else, thanks for pointing this thread out Sir Vincent III.
Make it is so you can be target-able or visible in a transparent form (think allies stealthing without the name over them, possibly a bit harder to see) at a certain range of around 450 after you have been stealthed for around 1-1.5 seconds. In doing so they could possibly decrease the cost of our stealths or increase the durations of them.
As for the nullify idea the OP had, I do think it’s much more reasonable than revealed debuff. Although I’m still not a fan of it in general, if they think stealth is too good that it needs hard counters then perhaps they should look at stealth itself.
I truthfully don’t find stealth in it’s current state over-powered, but I do think it’s generally not fun to fight against. It would be nice if they find a way to make fighting stealth thieves more enjoyable while stealth still being useful and fun to use.
I also agree that 2 boons against certain classes is too good, while against others it’s necessary. How about make it so it steals 1 boon and steals another if the target has more than 4 or 5 boons on them? If not I do kind of like the health steal idea, it’d make it more useful in PvE considering there aren’t too many enemies that actually use boons, although I do love using S/D against dredge.
Larcenous Strike (1-2 Initiative.)
Stab your foe and steal one boon, steal a second boon if the target has more than four (or five) boons on them.
Damage: 365
Range: 130
Unblockable
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Let me start out saying I don’t find stealth overpowered in its current state, I do however agree it’s not really fun to actually fight against. My friend who currently can’t post came up with an idea to change the stealth function a bit.
Make it is so you can be target-able or visible in a transparent form (think allies stealthing without the name over them, possibly a bit harder to see) at a certain range of around 450 after you have been stealthed for around 1-1.5 seconds. In doing so they could possibly decrease the cost of our stealths or increase the durations of them.
As stated before I don’t really have a problem with current state of stealth even though I’ve been using more sword as of late because I enjoy evasion over stealth, although I did use d/d and d/p for a long time. I’m just curious of what other Thieves who use stealth builds a lot think of this idea.
My main issue with the survival mini-game are the ghosts, they just make you not want to move. You’re bound to walk over a disarm trap, fall and have them spawn a karka on you. I’d definitely be more aggressive if I didn’t have to fear moving in general. Other than that I do enjoy the mini-game, although I think they could get away with speeding up the hunger debuff.
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I’ve been meaning to post this for a long time hell I’m sure it has been suggested before. I really wish they’d change the duration on the shadow return to 15 seconds (like it is on sword skill #2). It’s kind of strange for a utility that has a 60 second cool-down to not have a return duration longer than the sword skill #2.
Seems like it’s a nerf with mainly WvWvW in mind. Hopefully they’ll fix in the shadow stepping on the skill, please turn it into a portal!
Could heartseeker be given a second skill in a small chain in the same way as larcenous strike? If this second skill was given a longer animation, high damage, high initiative cost, not a finisher, then might it give more balanced play?
Dagger main hand weapon sets are supposed to be quick attacks, it would make no sense to do this. I think D/P is fine, if they truly think this set is too good then I think the only change should be reducing the duration of the black powder field, but also slightly reduce the initiative cost as well.
I mean seriously though Thief is only considered good in 1v1 WvW roaming, I actually wouldn’t even say it’s the strongest, just the most likely to slip away if things go bad.
EDIT: Keep in mind you can actually stand outside of the black powder radius and hit thieves inside it with melee too.
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Gotta love that “Grouch” guy
“agree[about it needing a nerf] unless you’re a thief”
They really need to change who they let in on these SoTGs
I also found it rather cringe worthy when they mentioned Guardian being able to instagib people and they all laughed. It’s okay for Guardians to instantly kill people but when a Thief does it it’s OP (which I actually agree Thief shouldn’t be instantly killing people) I just find it so stupid Guardian gets no flak even though it’s often considered one of, if not the best class (outside of Necro right now). As far as sPvP goes Thief is considered in the bottom 3 with Ranger and Warrior from the majority of people. I’m pretty sure Grouch is the guy who makes these SoTGs happen, so I doubt he’s exclude himself in this.
Honestly I would like to see them make a sticky post in each of the profession’s forums with current ideas and future plans of the class, lock the threat and add an last updated tag on the title of it. I know the devs are busy but it would also be nice if they popped in and debated about changes as to why they did/didn’t do something (such as shortbow range) and if they have plans to make it make more sense in the long run.
Or even simply “promote” someone as the “ambassador” for each profession to bring ideas from the community and tell the community the current ideas the devs have.
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I’ve no problem with adding a duration once laid, the cast time idea seemed bad though. But yeah they really do need to make this skill more reliable, they should just make it a trait up teleport like portal if they are to add a duration on it. Overall disappointed with the Thief “segment” considering this was all that was mentioned outside of S/D being too good in the past.
As I mentioned in the SoTG thread in the sPVP forums, I’m very disappointed they didn’t bring up Thief being the only class without 1200 ranged weapon. Not to mention our class entirely is kind of under-performing, most people agree it’s at the bottom with Warrior and Ranger. Currently our only really good weapon sets are D/X and Shortbow (outside of WvW), S/D is alright but I wouldn’t say it’s remotely as good as those two. Sorry to go off-topic there, but I wanted to vent my slight frustrations with the lack of information towards our class.
I know SoTG is more sPvP oriented. But I really wish Thief being the only class with 900 range was brought up. It makes us pretty much useless in sieges sadly. Also disappointed that the only thing brought up was Shadow Trap wanting to be nerfed, I have no problem with it getting a duration on it, but please get it to actually work properly all the time. It is a good utility and if it did work correctly all the time I would agree in it’s OPness, but in it’s current state it’s too unpredictable to actually rely on. Also adding a cast timer on it would be stupid, why even make it stun breaker to begin with…?
I hope you guys can get a good tourney thief on soon (dunno if you have recently as I have not watched all SoTGs) because I don’t want to pretend I know what is all best for the class. Thanks for continuing to do this for the community.
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I really, really like the Assassin’s Retreat and Quick Pockets suggestions.
We do need a Sword dmg increase trait and something to reduce weapon cooldown (9 seconds is an eternity when you’re in a tough fight and need to swap to SB to disengage). Ini boost on weapon swap needs to be toned down though, 3 ini every 5 seconds is simply way too much.I would like to add my own suggestion:
Expeditious Dodger: Gain 10s of Swiftness on evade. 10s internal cooldown.
The current implementation of Expeditious Dodger builds a habit of bad play in encouraging dodging multiple times to move long distance quickly, and dodging to close gaps. Essentially wasting dodges.
It doesn’t even provide full swiftness uptime, which is something that many other classes already have, so it does not make sense that the Thief, who is supposedly the most mobile class, should be denied access to it.
This change would resolve both issues.
I think Expeditious Dodger is fine the way it is. Considering it is quite easy to have very high vigor and dodge uptime, making swiftness last 10 seconds for perma swiftness would be very overpowered, especially for a 5 pt minor trait. A better way to encourage combat mobility without overusing the dodge button for the sake of swiftness, would be to make all our dual skills with a built in evade that last 1/4 second like DeathBlossom last the entire animation or 1/2 second like flanking strike.
I have to agree that 10 seconds on dodge is OP, but I do think the on-dodge swiftness should last longer by a second or two. I just kind of find it weird that we don’t really have access to these things without use of a signet that has an absolutely horrible activation (all of the classes that have this type of signet have this problem) which was actually good in beta (immobilize) or spamming dodge and using heal for vigor or throwing steal away with a trait to maintain movement speed when Thief is supposed to be the most mobile class, not to say we don’t have good mobility through skills but that’s a different discussion entirely.
Perhaps at the very least they could throw swiftness on some of our utilities like Shadow Step, Infiltrator’s Signet and Roll for Initiative. They could also give us a movement speed trait like OP suggested, but I would think it would required to have melee to use it since all of the other movement traits have some requirement.
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you get teleported to the pet/clone that triggered the trap if this pet/clone dies or get shattered your trap enters a 45sec cd.
Not to mention that the ONLY way to know if the trap was or not triggered is by not taking your eyes of the icon! there is not a single kind of warning (sound / flash / popup) to let you know that it was triggered.
Ah that sucks. I do wish they gave a better visual queue other than just flipping the icon, perhaps when someone trips the trap it should light up while flipping over to the Shadow Pursuit icon.
I wouldn’t say the skill is useless in sPvP though, I did have a pretty good experience using it in on about 70% of the maps, that being said you shouldn’t ever be in a state of wondering if your skill is actually going to work properly or fail. In WvW I do find it pretty much useless, you’re better with just sticking with Shadow Step for that.
this trap can be triggered by pets/clones making it completely useless in sPvP
not that it was any better before though
I haven’t had this happen yet. Does it simply not work if a pet/clone triggers or does it work until the pet/clone dies?
I do wish they’d simply make it a portal and have it disappear if you go further than 10k units from the trap and go on cool-down.
We call the route from point A to point B “AB”
so you travel from point A to point B in 35 minutes.
Now you travel from point B back to point A with 30% increased speed.Question: Will the time it takes you to travel back be reduced by 30%?
Question2: Will you get from point A to point B instant when you travel 100% faster?No!
Speed when you travel from A to B = 35s/AB
Speed when you travel from B to A = 35s/AB /1.3 = 26.92s/AB
Speed when you travel 100% faster = 35s/AB / 2.0 = 17.5s/ABSimple math… no magic involved
It’s just most people are thinking reduced cool-down by 30%, not increased recharge by 30%. Hell I thought that earlier as well mainly due to tool-tip error that they hot-fixed.
Because it’s increasing the recharge rate, not reducing the cool-down.
Steal 100% recharge rate = 35 seconds
Steal traited to 30 points which means 130% recharge rate = 26.9
Seriously Cassiel, you have never played a thief and you really have no idea what you are talking about. Ether that, or you are trolling (or you have some kind of mental illness).
I will assume that the second is the case because, your posts reveal that.
You are in a thief forum QQing about thieves because you believe that Mesmers got nerfed much more and that leads us to believe that thieves are buffed. Right?
Way to go.
Hey man, Cassiel is a famous amazing GW2 player, quite possibly the best, so he knows best! If he says we purely got amazing buffs and that we should stop complaining about having no 1200 ranged cluster bombs then we must. We’re just not seeing something, I’m sure in time we’ll be able to see what Cassiel sees and be as good as him, at least I hope of such things!
I played around with it in sPvP and love it, some maps it’s inconsistent but overall it’s pretty solid. Mainly open world stuff it seems pretty bad unless you’re fighting on flat ground. Although one suggestion, perhaps make the icon give a noticeable visual queue when someone steps over it. It’s pretty easy to miss it if you’re in a fight but perhaps I’ll just get more used to the icons over time.
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So has the 21.5 second been there all day even tho the tooltip read 17.5? or was it actually 17.5 at one point?
They hot-fixed the tool-tip.
Works like portal until 10000 units.
Any range higher as 10000units makes the limits of shadowsteps apply.
I myself will mainly use it in certain fractals (dredge and swamp).
It certainly doesn’t work like portal, hell in WvW I tried placing it at the base of the steps of my own wall, climbed up and it wouldn’t port me back down. Tried it on an open field with some hills, ran about 5k units and it wouldn’t port me back. A simple test to prove it doesn’t work like a true teleport, go to LA find some blocks or something that you have to jump on to reach such as the ones near the bank in LA and drop off and try to return, it doesn’t port you back up.
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Anyone having any luck with this utility? Seems highly unreliable to me, messed around with it for 30 minutes in WvW and the pathing is so pathetic that if you aren’t on flat ground then it isn’t going to work at all. Hell it didn’t even break stun for me when I actually shadow stepped…
This is anecdotal evidence, but I had some good luck with the pathing for SR to the point that I thought it might’ve been fixed. I’ve only played a few games (and now I’m at work), but it seems like it’s working better.
Actually it does seem better, thank god! Hmm on one side I do want to make the suggestion to straight up make all shadow returns a teleport but simply be removed and return to Infiltrator’s Strike/go on cool-down. But at the same time I could see how that would be pretty imbalanced being able to jump off of something pretty high and shadow return. Would be fun nevertheless!
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Honestly wouldn’t have such an issue if the trickery line at least had a useful stat boost on it like condition duration.
You may want to take a look at the Adept (10 point) trait Thrill of the Crime
Even just the 50% uptime on fury might be well worth dropping Critical Strikes, or something else by 10 points. You could withdraw – steal on a approx 20 sec cycle and have 50% uptime on vigor (Vigorous Recovery) and fury (Thrill of the Crime) and, given enough dodging, near 100% uptime on swiftness (Thrill and Expeditious Dodger).Also hate that steal gives you the invisibility item 90% of the time in PvE.
Stealing from player characters tends to give better
Don’t get me wrong, I like the traits and think they’re good. But by dropping critical strikes you’re still missing out on quite a bit of critical damage. Not to mention people can steal your boons, but not your base stats. For PvP you do indeed get good items, but doesn’t change the fact for PvE you generally get invisibility. Also you could have 100% Vigor uptime I believe if you throw in bountiful theft in there, but only if you have a target. I find it kind of strange you get swiftness, might and fury if you use steal without a target with that trait, but you don’t gain vigor from bountiful.
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Honestly 1 condition removed + shadow step for 2 initiative is fine… if it worked correctly all the time. Too often do you use shadow return and not actually move because of the annoying shadow step pathing changes they did. Also wouldn’t be as bad for WvW if we weren’t forced into using Signet of Shadows for movement speed, if we had more means of getting better movement speed we could simply replace SoS with another stun breaker utility.
@coast yeah i agree kinda. when guardians and 2 other classes can have perma retaliation up (broken buff) and some classes perma fury *(engie) and perma swiftness and perma protection etc ….god for bid we have perma vigor :O NOOOOOO! lol or a 1 sec daze every 18 seconds. you know i think warrios can knock u down twice and do a total of like 7 or 8 secs of immobilize within a few quick moves. thief is going down the drain. just get rid of them and add monks. ill play a monk anyday :P
Honestly wouldn’t have such an issue if the trickery line at least had a useful stat boost on it like condition duration. Not to mention steal is pretty inconsistent between the shadow step nerf and not actually stealing an item, many times have I tried to steal from an enemy (PvE and PvP) standing still and fairly close (200-400 units) and have it simply shadow step me and not steal an item. Also hate that steal gives you the invisibility item 90% of the time in PvE.
Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.
He is a designer, not a developer. Big difference. He’s way below a developer.
Yes, but maybe he has a better understanding than I do about LR and CB. Because I can’t stop laughing for these two changes! XD
They wanted us to be completely useless in sieges so we’re always roaming, simply put they want to hear more whining from people in WvW dying to thieves I guess.
Why lowering LS cooldown then?
… still laughing! XD
Btw where is the petition topic about removing LR?
Because they figured LR might save you once every 15 times it triggers, so they consider it a buff by making it proc more it will save you more often while ignoring the fact it’ll get you killed more often!
Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.
He is a designer, not a developer. Big difference. He’s way below a developer.
Yes, but maybe he has a better understanding than I do about LR and CB. Because I can’t stop laughing for these two changes! XD
They wanted us to be completely useless in sieges so we’re always roaming, simply put they want to hear more whining from people in WvW dying to thieves I guess.
Oh, a dev on the thief forum, such an unexpected visit. Since you’re honouring us with your presence, would you mind explain us the reasoning behind Cluster Bomb range reduction? Was it so over powered? And while you’re at it, could you share some thoughts about Last Refuge, since lowering its cooldown by 30 seconds suggests that you devs don’t have a clue about players’ issues with this trait.
Also please explain why Thief mobility keeps getting nerfed when you (not you personally, but your “balancing” team) said it would be buffed… Why are we stuck using Signet of Shadow when plenty of other classes have long term or even perma swiftness and yet we’re supposed to have the best mobility? How about why shadow step was nerfed horribly to the point that you can only rely on it about 20% of the time?
It even says 17.5 seconds on the tool-tip (with the SoH trait equipped), hopefully it will be hot-fixed so we don’t have to wait another month just for a small fix.
Yes, I absolutely hate this trait, please give us something different (evade attacks for 3 seconds?) or make it so it works even during revealed debuff and make it so you don’t get revealed debuff with it as well.
This has probably been stated before, but I haven’t read over everything here. Thieves often don’t have high damage outside of one or two skills within their weapon set (minus dagger, all of them actually do good damage). Take Dagger/Pistol for example you have Heartseeker and Shadow Shot that do good damage, although Shadow Shot isn’t really good DPS if it were spammed. The rest of the skills on D/P do less than auto-attack damage (far less), they’re there for situational/defensive purposes. As others have pointed out it’s the most efficient DPS skill that will be spammed, as I stated before all of D/D skills do good damage, but it’s not efficient to spam say Cloak and Dagger (I don’t mean for BS purposes) or Dagger Throw over HS (assuming they are below 50%). With most weapon sets we’ll honestly be spamming 1 for damage anyways S/D, S/P, P/D (throw in C&D for Sneak Attack) and D/P (until 50%).
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