Umm culling benefits thieves the most, so why haven’t thieves been balance to the same degree they have been in Spvp,, eg nerfed to Spvp? If culling helps them more, then why have they been made MORE powerful in WvWvW?
Culling is getting taken out this month. You know this, yet you keep repeating yourself.
True sign of a man with no more arguments left.
Secondly, if Spvp and WvWvW are the same, how about we balance thieves in WvWvW the same way they are balanced in Spvp?
Because there not the same… Far from it.
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Amazing suggestion.
Why not just get rid of stealth altogether while you’re at it?
Oh i’m sorry, you mean having the multiple utility skills you have that give you stealth isn’t good enough?
grin
So making those utilities a necessity is your solution? Making many other builds obsolete in the process?
Prefer to just leave it as is thanks, the way ANet intended.
I’m sure you’d prefer to leave it how it is, since its overpowered and not balanced at all right now.
In your opinion, which you’re entitled too. But don’t claim such to be fact.
Many of us counter stealth just fine and don’t think it requires any drastic changes like the small few that constantly repeat themselves on this forum.
Once ANet remove culling this month, the whining should calm down a bit.
. Then culling will be replaced by horrible lag, and thieves will still have god mode.
You have no idea mate.
Lag effects every class… You think they program the game so lag doesn’t effect thieves? Who says there will be lag anyway? We don’t know.
You’re clutching at straws as usual. Nothing to back up your claims, so you just start making stuff up.
Classic Columba.
He is running runes of lyssa, might be a build similar to my warrior.. I run with a mate’s build and it works well, goes like this.
All armour pieces are pvt with lyssa runes
All accesories are Cavaliers with beryl jewels
Both weapons are berserkers, one with sigil of bloodlust and one with power.
Traits are 0/0/30/30/10 mostly interchangeable but “empower” is a big one and “signet mastery” this means you effectively have about 4 seconds downtime on the buffs from your signer of rage given lyssa rune buffs stack with it, and when you use your signet of rage you have 18% increased damage for 7 seconds. You also want to pick up shouts healing and lung capacity for 20% reduction on their cooldown.
You should have about 1.9k toughness 1.9k power and 24.5k up like this.I run currently with healing surge, for great justice, shake it off, signer of stamina and signer of rage, good condition removal in the signer of stamina / shake it off and runes of lyssa and although the build seems defensive it has a high damage output when lyssa is up and the 100% fury uptime keeps your damage rrather high when its down.
Hope this helps anyways.
Sounds like an interesting build.
Mind posting a build link?
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Amazing suggestion.
Why not just get rid of stealth altogether while you’re at it?
Oh i’m sorry, you mean having the multiple utility skills you have that give you stealth isn’t good enough?
grin
So making those utilities a necessity is your solution? Making many other builds obsolete in the process?
Prefer to just leave it as is thanks, the way ANet intended.
I’m sure you’d prefer to leave it how it is, since its overpowered and not balanced at all right now.
In your opinion, which you’re entitled too. But don’t claim such to be fact.
Many of us counter stealth just fine and don’t think it requires any drastic changes like the small few that constantly repeat themselves on this forum.
Once ANet remove culling this month, the whining should calm down a bit.
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Amazing suggestion.
Why not just get rid of stealth altogether while you’re at it?
Oh i’m sorry, you mean having the multiple utility skills you have that give you stealth isn’t good enough?
grin
So making those utilities a necessity is your solution? Making many other builds obsolete in the process?
Prefer to just leave it as is thanks, the way ANet intended.
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Amazing suggestion.
Why not just get rid of stealth altogether while you’re at it?
A laughably optimistic perspective, for sure. I wonder what you might consider a buff – perhaps a little buff to defense in exchange for some stealth nerfs, as mentioned above? I expect and hope we’ll see the thief changed into another type of combatant – something I believe that Arenanet desire also, hence the creation of this thread. Current thief gameplay is a big issue.
Actually, the facts back him, for sure.
I’m afraid that alone makes you the laughable optimist instead…
The dev blog on profession roles and also the profession description on the official site also make it clear that the thief is playing as intended.
This thread is so entertaining to read.
i second that, and all the videos contain max culling
but hey, fixing culling AND getting nerfs in the same time, is the only way to go.
It was entertaining, especially Columba’s posts. But now it’s just sad.
How exactly is this a constructive thread?
You assume there is a problem with stealth, which many people don’t think there is. Why nerf something that doesn’t need nerfing?
Silly thread should be closed, it offers nothing constructive.
No they can’t
/15char
I don’t suffer from any of the issues the OP describes.
- I make plenty of gold in WvW
- Repairs costs aren’t an issue. Just how often do you die?
- Mobs add an extra dimension to fights and provide more loot
Not seeing a problem here.
We have been asking you guys to remove it from the start of the game, but yet its still in here, Why is that Anet? Do you not listen to your players and what THEY want?
Plz don’t act like you’re speaking for some majority here.
You don’t represent anyone but yourself.
Many people are quite happy with the downed state, which is a core feature of the game I might add.
At first, I thought the change was great.
Now I see how horrible it’s become. Even if I wanted to farm these events it’s a giant pain in the anus.
‘Oh Shatterer is up, go to WP, chucked in overflow’.
GG
Sitting there pewpewpewing through a rotation while a tank takes damage and healers fill health bars is just zzzzzzzz to me now.
So having everyone do the exact same thing is somehow more interesting?
Hmmm.
The irony in your post…
why dont people accept that the issue isnt the theif class itself its culling
They can’t handle the truth?
Well, I use vengeance only when I’m about to die, but I really think it’s useless, but I noticed you don’t ALWAYS die
If you manage to KILL the opponent who downed you while in vengeance, it seems to me that there’s a chance the “vengeance” will go away.
There were a couple of times where I used vengeance, killed my opponent, and then waited to die and I didn’t die, and I saw that the vengeance icons was no longer on my “boons”.
By default, if you kill an enemy during vengeance, then you have a small chance to stay alive. If you trait for it (sweet revenge), then you have a 100% chance to stay alive if you kill an enemy.
It’s a great skill in PvE, but I find it next to useless in PvP just like the rest of our downed skills.
Thieves lack the team support abilities of every other class, thus they’re not sought after for dungeon parties no matter how much damage they can do.
After the recent patch I decided to give my warrior another run after I shelved him 3 months ago. I’m never going to use my thief for PvE content, why would I? My warrior outclasses the thief in every way.
I dunno if this has been said, The only Nerf I think that is really needed is, The stealth mode finisher.
With my nerco, If I’m downed from a thief and they go into stealth, I just wait to die, I can’t do anything. Any other class I could attempt to fear away for a small chance to live.
Yes. Removing Stealth finishers would be enough for me.
If ANet go down that path, they should also remove other classes abilities to stomp like ele’s mist form stomp, warrior’s frenzy stomp, guardians stability stomp and so on.
Yes it’s bloody ridiculous that we have all these currencies for different ascended gear. It’s ANet’s way of making you play the way they want, not how you want.
I find it funny how people call WoW a broken kitten game (which it is), and then say anet should make gw more like wow. Hmmmm
I thought wow did a good job with stealth though. They didn’t have permastealthed killing enemies before the enemies could ever defend themselves.
Excuse me? WoW had stunlocking.
Stop trolling, please.
not trolling. I was addressing stealth, not other things. stop the personal attacks please.
That wasn’t a personal attack, I was pointing out that you’re trolling when you say stealth was fine in wow. You had guaranteed kills on people from stealth, unless they had a stunbreaker.
That’s not a problem with stealth. That’s an issue with stun.
Well then, if a thief kills you with Basilisk Venom -> C&D -> Steal -> Backstab combo before you even see him that’s not a stealth problem, since you can get out of it using a stun breaker. Sounds like issue with stun, right?
They didn’t have permastealth there
Apart from the whole being able to stay in stealth permanently.
There is a big difference between staying in stealth permanently, and having the appearance of permanent stealth while still being able to fully function in attack. The problem with thieves in GW2 WvW is they can take full action against you while not being rendered on the screen.
It would seem that culling is the problem then, not stealth. Luckily, Anet has said culling will be removed completely from WvW.
In other games with perma stealth you can see the thief/rogue as soon as they take their first action.
In GW2 you can see the thief as soon as he does direct damage. In large fights culling might be involved, but that has nothing to do with thieves themselves.
Nope, that’s not true. C&D for one, culling for another. Other classes can’t use culling to remain stealthed as thieves do. So it has plenty to do with thieves.
Culling is not stealth, stop pretending they’re the same thing. And C&D? From stealth? You’d get the revealed debuff. Other classes are subject to culling the same as thieves.
Seriously, stop talking nonsense.
Not stealth, but thieves get the most advantage from it because they can bridge their stealth downtimes with culling to get permastealth. As many of us have proven, the revealed “debuff” actually doesn’t work in wvwvw.
Thieves have bragged about how they can spam c&d and remain stealthed. Stop talking nonsense.
LOL Columba…
Is there a thread in this forum where you’re not whining about thieves?
It’s no wonder you struggle with them so much, you spend all your time here demanding nerfs than in game learning how to counter them.
Seriously, you take it to the the next level. It’s pretty funny.
Are you talking about the video of them rolling under leveled/geared terrible players?
Because there’s hundreds of those vids floating around the net for every class. Hardly a case to nerf anything.
Anyway, I’m done for w/e. I’m off to actually enjoy the game.
Can you link these videos of Rangers, Engineers, and Necromancers killing, or fighting as many people as Xsorus does in his video, for that length of time, and living, and/or scoring kills?
I’d love to see them.
Find them yourself.
I have nothing to prove to you, nor do I have any interest in having another pointless discussion that will end up nowhere.
I’m going to go sink the rest of the weekend enjoying the game.
As far as I knew xiv, like Xsorus are both Thieves, and Xsorus has already provided videos of him face rolling on his Thief, and feeling it is wrong. These guys are not approaching this as losing to a Thief a tired, old argument that does not help us out, but instead they’re approaching this as a Thief, and thinking what they are able to do is wrong.
If you’re having issues killing other classes and builds, I’m sure someone can help you out. Maybe these two can help you attain what they’re doing with the Thief?
Are you talking about the video of them rolling under leveled/geared terrible players?
Because there’s hundreds of those vids floating around the net for every class. Hardly a case to nerf anything.
And LOL at insinuating I’m struggling with other classes. Where did you get that idea or are you just trying to troll?
Now I remember why I loathe visiting this forum.
Anyway, I’m done for w/e. I’m off to actually enjoy the game.
(edited by LOCO.1785)
Xsorus is right.
Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.
No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.
The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.
But that’s neither here nor there.
Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.
The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.
Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.
There is so much wrong with this post, I have to address it.
Thieves don’t dominate the top end tiers of sPvP, because those players are skilled and actually know how to counter stealth with ease. You won’t find any GC cookie cutter thieves running around there, because it’s a gimmick build designed to instagib noobs.
You do realize a sPvP Thief does nearly half the damage of a WvW Thief, right? Why in the hell are you guys bringing up sPvP, in the WvW forums? They nerfed sPvP so the carebears could better handle the game.
I didn’t bring it up, xiv did. I was just calling him out on his BS, which he totally ignored because he knows he’s wrong.
Just demanding nerfs, because he doesn’t know how to deal with thieves. It’s sad.
lol many attacks fail. obstruction blocks half my bow shots
That’s a L2P issue, not a class issue.
What else you got?
nope. it’s evidence that attacks do miss. thus, it refutes your argument.
It’s missing because you’re trying to range the thief when there’s an object between you. That’s what an obstruction is…
My god.
I always try to get behind a tree or something when facing another range if I’m going P/D spec. Obstruction is just that… an obstruction… do you honestly expect your arrows to go through trees and rocks? Geeze… I think your mentality has been nerfed…
nope. not a thing in sight. nice try. proves that not ever attack hits. mate.
Either you’re delusional or your weapon has bugs. Attack success in GW2 isn’t dictated by RNG.
He’s neither. He’s a flat out liar.
He said half his attacks fail because of obstructions, then says there’s nothing in sight. Don’t need to be a genius to work out he’s full of it.
anet specifically stated that stealth is not the primary mechanic for thieves. sorry. try again.
Quote?
Actually don’t bother, it’s worthless reasoning with people this dense.
Xsorus is right.
Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.
No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.
The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.
But that’s neither here nor there.
Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.
The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.
Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.
There is so much wrong with this post, I have to address it.
Yes nerfing stealth unnecessarily will destroy the class, because stealth is in fact one of their main mechanics. If you don’t believe me, go read the profession description at www.guildwars2.com.
It’s why thieves get a range of attacks they can only perform from stealth. Not only is it pivotal from an offensive point, but it’s also their fallback for defense. It’s been stated many times that thieves have the lowest base HP and medium armor, yet they need to get up close to do their big damage. Thieves don’t have access to the defensive skills most classes have. Not only that, but they have a whole trait line dedicated to stealth itself. Implying that stealth can be nerfed without having much effect on thieves is pure rubbish.
Thieves don’t dominate the top end tiers of sPvP, because those players are skilled and actually know how to counter stealth with ease. You won’t find any GC cookie cutter thieves running around there, because it’s a gimmick build designed to instagib noobs.
If you think thieves are great in PvE, you’re kidding yourself. They were weak before the last patch and now they’re even weaker. No one wants thieves in their dungeon parties. Was your example of 5 thieves finishing a dungeon in average gear supposed to prove a point? I’m sure any class of capable of that.
lol many attacks fail. obstruction blocks half my bow shots
That’s a L2P issue, not a class issue.
What else you got?
nope. it’s evidence that attacks do miss. thus, it refutes your argument.
It’s missing because you’re trying to range the thief when there’s an object between you. That’s what an obstruction is…
My god.
Thief: WvW good. You don’t even need to be skilled to take down 5 extremely horrible under leveled/geared players. If you’re skilled, you can even take down an AFK zerg if you want to.
Fixed that for you.
Gw2 is close enough to other games. scenery is different though.
So are you actually suggesting ANet should redesign all their professions to mimic other MMOs?
You’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel dude.
with culling, stealth doesn’t drop. GW2 isn’t that different from those other games.
Didn’t you hear the news? Culling is gone next patch.
Also GW2 IS different though isn’t it. It’s not the same, it’s a different game. Maybe YOU need another game…
What’s your next angle?
This would be crippling, more than you know. I can already see someone who doesnt have the blind on stealth trait CnDing someone the same time that someone attacks them. So they not only lost half their initiative, but now they are not in stealth…….wonderful
not crippling. it happens in every other game.
Yes crippling. This is not every other game, this is GW2.
There are a really insulting amount of FA laughing on corpses this week.
I only laugh when people I’m fighting either, choose to jump off cliffs rather than die by my sword or turn tail and run before even engaging me.
I’ve been laughing a lot this week.
3600 range you say…
Why do i find this hard to believe.
I just don’t understand some people here……………
The real issue is Pristine Fractal Relics. They need to add additional ascended items to the list of things you can purchase with them.
Should really be able to purchase the ascended earrings with the pristine relics…
And make the friggen rings salvageable for gods sake!
Wow…
So they give us an alternative way to get them, but make it so stupidly expensive that it isn’t really an option at all.
slow clap
It happens in all games like this.
It’s just easier for some people to demand nerfs than to adjust their playstyle. It’s pretty sad, I agree with you.
1. Which class do you consider to be the “most overpowered”?
Elementalist
2. Which class do you consider to be the “most underpowered”?
Engineer
3. Which aspect of the game do you think needs the most work done? (sPvP, PvE dungeons, PvE open world, WvW)
WvW
4. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being good and 1 being bad, how would you rate the in game economy?
3
5. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being a lot and 1 being very few, how would you rate the amount of bugs/glitches in the current build of the game?
6
6. Which aspect of the game do you want to do more, but have no reason to currently do so? (sPvP, PvE dungeons, PvE open world, WvW)
Dungeons & PvE open world
7. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being great and 1 being the worst, how would you rate the community interaction between players? (things such as parties, dungeons, etc)
5
Why not have both?
I believe they have teams working on different stuff. So one team working on bug fixes and another working on new content and so on.
Good question, but disappointing answer.
@ Raph is Chilled
Just ignore Coumba’s drivel.
I assume you’re playing WvW where culling is a problem for all professions, but it effects stealth classes the most.
Luckily, in a recent interview with one of the main devs, Habib stated culling will be eliminated in the upcoming March patch. Having culling completely eliminated sounds like a big call, but nevertheless I’m expecting huge improvements. So just wait it out until ANet implement their fix.
Here’s the interview if you’re interested: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7169/Guild-Wars-2-What-Marchs-WvW-Patch-Will-Bring.html
Lets pick up the threads, as there are no big good guilds on EB theres no use discussing that.
I still do not see any, not one good reason to nbot make drastical changes to stealth to counter culling and imbalanced fights/abuse.
I have one good reason.
Culling is getting eliminated in the March patch.
You can all stop your whining now.
Any input to my question about what the back up plan is or should be with respect to culling and stealth?
The dev Habib Loew stated culling will be eliminated in the coming March patch, so your hypothetical is moot.
/thread
That’s why most games don’t allow stealth to lose aggro. The change made great sense, and thieves are still very powerful.
Once again no.
I don’t no what point you’re trying to make by bringing up this “but but in most games…” comment, but it’s a very vague and doesn’t prove anything.
The change doesn’t make much sense at all.
This change mainly effects thieves effectiveness in PvE, where they’re particularly weak already. So please tell me how this makes sense to you or are you still bitter because you struggle against them in PvP?
From a practical standpoint, thieves are immune in stealth unless someone gets lucky with a random aoe. In most games, stealth isn’t possible while you are in combat. It’s very easy to move out of danger while in stealth.
No, from whatever way you look at it, thieves are not immune to damage while in stealth. Stop spreading misinformation, it doesn’t help your crusade against thieves lying about them.
All stealth does is make the thief invisible and untargetable for the duration. They don’t enter god mode. They can still be hit with AoE and attacks that don’t require a target. You know this, stop spreading lies to try and help your cause.
Interesting, can anyone else confirm this?
Come on man, we all know by now the manifesto was a pipe dream.
People ask for this stuff, so ANet gives them what they want. Not me personally, I just play WvW and usually by the end of my session my daily is complete.
If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms
D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..
Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.
Unfortunately that would require me to change my whole build around. Not something you can do on the run.