there is yet to be a proven build in any class that is an even 90% effective hard counter to stealth and those classes that use it. If there is one, I’d like to see it posted. I’m currently working to have a level 80 of all classes, and I’d like to try it out for myself, for whatever class it would end up working on.
D/D bunker ele.
Pretty easy build to find, because I see them running around everywhere in WvW these days.
Enjoy!
I encourage those of you who can see the badly imbalancing nature of stealth in this game to send complaints to anet. Even many, fair-minded, thieves admit that stealth is badly broken, but a few thieves cling to their overpowered status. there’s a very good reason that no other game allows perma stealth even during attacks or getting damage. It ruins pvp.
It’s okay Columba, I’m sure you’ve sent enough for everybody.
sounds like a l2p issue.
That’s classic coming from you.
Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.
How am I meant to interpret this bolded part?
Because what you’ve said right here is not true. Mobs do not attack you while you’re in stealth. So you can still use C&D and backstab as per usual.
My reading comprehension is fine, you need to explain yourself better.
And for the record I’m not happy with the change either, thieves need buffs in PvE, not nerfs. All I originally said is it’s not the end of the world, I know I’ll be able to adapt fine.
Steal is also a very good utitlity if you see a zerg, i steal off of warriors for their whil attack so i can block projectiles while my dagger storm is on cooldown etc.
I thought they nerfed the warrior whirl attack thieves can steal, taking away the reflect projectiles part of it? Still does killer damage though, I use it to down people often.
If they only toned it down to block projectiles, that’s still pretty good.
I’m so sick of the embarrassing sylvari dance.
HOW DARE YOU
Randomly pumping your limbs around and grunting are the purest forms of dance, plebeian!
LOL
Forgive me, you do have a point there.
You mean you didn’t see this change coming? O.o
No other stealth class can generate massive amount of damage coming out of stealth.
And? It’s built into their mechanics ie. backstab. What’s your point? Read the dev blog describing profession roles, this is intended.
Yeh they have low HP, so what? They have the ability to run away to regen and with this new patch they don’t even have to run away. They just got a HP regen buff so when they stealth they don’t need to run away anymore to prevent you from regenerating also. They’ll be healing in stealth while your heal skill is on cooldown.
Yeah they have low HP + med armor, that’s why they depend on stealth for defense, that’s what. They might be able to run away and regen, but that also means whoever they were fighting will reset too. What’s this regen buff your talking about? There’s nothing in the patch notes about a regen buff.
Stealth overall should be reworked because it is an OP system not just in this game but in all mmo even the ones with stealth detection skills. What Anet should have done is not allowing thieves to reenter stealth once they’re in combat. However if they want to reenter stealth then they have to run to get out of combat. That wont render thieves useless because they’re the class with great mobility so running away wont be an issue.
I see now, you just flat out hate stealth in all games, gotcha ya. Your suggestion to not allow thieves to re-enter stealth once in combat is hilarious by the way. Why not just delete the class altogether while you’re at it.
I hope people don’t bring up that “but thieves have low HP” excuse because that was then when people didn’t know about which gears and trinkets to use. Now they do and thieves can clearly shoot pass 20k+ HP and still sustain insane direct damage output.
Thieves have the lowest base HP, but your rebuttal is “oh but they can sacrifice EVERYTHING to get 20k HP”. Are you kidding me? What’s the point in sacrificing everything to get 20k HP when you hit like a wet noodle?
Are you reading this ANet?
These are the type of people demanding nerfs. facepalm
I thought there was going to be a dance vendor at launch, but not sure if I read it somewhere or just imagined it.
But we definitely need one, I’m so sick of the embarrassing sylvari dance.
It’s about time they properly adjusted these areas. This change should’ve been implemented months ago.
Lol, I prefer to see a variety of builds rather than just one standard that everyone uses.
Anyway, I agree with the majority here that this change wasn’t needed, but in saying that I don’t think it’s that drastic. Sure PvE is a little harder for us now, but I like the extra challenge and it makes me a better player in the long run now that I can’t just drop stealth and reset aggro all the time.
Time to adapt guys!
Actually no, it’s pretty freaking drastic. You’re basically saying that removing the main mechanic that makes a class that class (other than aesthetics) isn’t drastic. If you want the extra challenge of not using stealth try rolling a different class.
Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.
What the hell are you talking about?
They haven’t removed stealth, one of the main mechanics of the thief. They simply modified it so you don’t drop off the aggro table of NPCs. So you can still stealth, then backstab, whatever, but upon reappearing, the NPC will still remember you did damage to it. Previously when you used stealth, you’d lose all aggro altogether.
Sounds like you haven’t even played the game since they patched it.
Oh they listen, they just don’t balance around QQ on the forums. Best to balance around top tier sPvP players, you know, the ones that discovered a long time ago how to counter thieves.
If there is a problem with them at all, it’s culling and ANet are already working on fixing that.
+1 from me too OP.
It’s getting a little ridiculous.
Are they harder out of water or something?
I completed my aquatic slayer daily in WvW BLs last night with no hassles. I didn’t notice any change for that matter.
Sounds to me it’s a “roll a bunker, or else” thing : P
Not that I dislike playing a bunker, but that’s not L2P, IMO.
You don’t have to roll a bunker, but it’s definitely a good suggestion for people struggling.
I see plenty of good GC out there, but in WvW you have to be on your toes the whole time or you’ll be eating dirt a lot.
I used to think thieves in WvW where a nightmare but after fighting them enough times they are just like the next opponent you might meet. Yes they stealth a lot, But they are still there…keep moving, don’t give them the opportunity to backstab. If they iHouse just aoe the area or keep moving until they reveal.
If I lose to a thief they where just a better fighter at the time.
Stealth doesn’t need a nerf, Culling/Rendering needs to be fixed.
I was losing hope there for awhile, but it seems logic does exist here.
I completed the aquatic slayer last night killing krait in borderlands. Didn’t notice a difference to be honest.
hey just started the game yesterday still don t know what profession to play i only tried warrior still lvl 8 but it looks like warrior are useless in pvp so i m looking for a prof gd in pvp and pve so i wana see if the thief is the profession i m looking for . ty
Warriors useless in PvP?
I think this guy would disagree with you: http://youtu.be/SHgkx2w4LrY
Kind of a weird change, considering thieves are so weak in PvE aspect. At least this doesn’t affect S/P, which every PvE thief should be running.
Lol, I prefer to see a variety of builds rather than just one standard that everyone uses.
Anyway, I agree with the majority here that this change wasn’t needed, but in saying that I don’t think it’s that drastic. Sure PvE is a little harder for us now, but I like the extra challenge and it makes me a better player in the long run now that I can’t just drop stealth and reset aggro all the time.
Time to adapt guys!
Please don’t think you are winning your 1v1’s through skill. Most of us could not see you for more than a few seconds and did not have enough aoe to burst you down before you safely disappeared to the other side of the map.
The game engine and your artificially long invisibility are the reason for your wins.
Do you feel better now?
You’re right, I’m living in fantasy land.
It’s crazy here, I see D/D eles tearing apart groups including thieves.
thieves got a buff. i almost can’t believe it (i’m lying i totally believe it after seeing anet employees rocking thief in wvwvw)
i guess we should all just bail and turn wvwv into tvt.
Because thieves got a slight buff to one of the healing skills no one uses?
Yeah, definite call to all roll thieves.
/sarcasm
I’ve always had better luck with the mystic kits
Elementalists, Thieves and Mesmers all got buffed one way or another.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…
I guess it is time to jump on the overpowered bandwagon and roll one of them, rather than hoping Anet are smart enough to balance the Professions.
What patch notes are you reading?
Definitely not the latest one.
Culling = issue. Not stealth.
Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.
Are you sure you’re not describing D/D eles?
Im a ranger…Ive watched videos, played a thief, talked to other players, and have tried every combination of skills, defences, and attacks to combat a thief. I have learned this, I can kill a poorly played thief, or a well played thief who isnt all stealth and bust damage, but one that knows what he or she is doing is absolutly unstoppable for me. Im dead before I can press a button. Ive specced entirely for defence first and I literally die before I can evade, or click a button. It just is what it is. Once you know a well played thief is in an area, go someplace else.
As a thief, I find rangers that make good use of their traps a pain to fight. Maybe you give that a try.
I ran into a Yak’s player using some weird down state hack last night. I got him to the down state and he began teleporting all over the place in 1 second intervals making it impossible to get a stomp or even get a hit in. One of his mates turned up to revive him, so I booked it as I’m not going to waste my time on lame crap like that.
I’m not trying to kick up a stink, I just didn’t know this type of hack existed. Anyone else come across this before?
If they miss their burst they stealth and reset the fight.
The fight does not reset unless they run out of the combat zone. Do people not use CC? You should probably try it sometime. You also make it sound like all thieves can just stealth at will, which is not the case.
Also they can leap on to ledges, Not all of them because you need to see the face of the ledge. But it can be done
Not in WvW, maybe true for some select ledges in sPvP. The post I replied to was talking about jumping up walls, which I assumed he meant towers & keeps, which isn’t possible. In fact I don’t know of any ledges you can leap up to in WvW, unless you’re referring to stairs or steep hills.
Finally the way you say auto attack where they are or spam AoE, do you know the cooldown of most AoE in this game? It’s not something you can spam, they are on long cd’s. Do you also know they a lot of classes can’t auto attack without a target selected. Guess what – you can’t target stealthed classes.
You’re nitpicking my use of the word spam? Okay, use your AoE/s. There are classes that can indeed spam AoEs as well, so the statement is no false anyway, but go ahead and nitpick if that’s all you got. Do you also know that most classes can auto attack without a target selected ie. melee?
Your entire post just shows a lack of knowledge of classes, especially the thief.
Yet I have no trouble dealing with them. What does that tell you?
As a thief, I welcome these changes.
I wouldn’t even call them changes, they’re more like bug fixes.
Meanwhile in GW2..
LIES!
The player base is declining!!
I heard it on the internet so it must be true!!!
Tsk tsk. No server loyalty is there.
Good riddance, let the server hoppers hop. At least they have to pay to band wagon now.
Why dont we just stop playing WvW all together. I find no reason to play lately also. PvE is so MUCH more rewarding then WvW. Why are we playing this stupid gamemode?
Because I’m not playing for rewards, I’m playing for the thrill of killing actual people, not some predictable NPC with poor AI. If you get a thrill from easy mode, good for you. Some of us like the dynamics of WvW.
Where are these rules that the OP speaks about?
Rules?!
This is war, anything goes!
But it would be nice if ANet gave us a designated dueling area with a proper dueling system. I’ve been dying to duel my mate for ages.
The game seems to be dying, I fear for ghost towns
Do you not like guesting or something?
Any word yet on what we’re supposed to do with account bound, unsalvagable, unforgeable ascended rings?
Is it still just vendor trash?
I appreciate the tips in here as well.
D/D eles are easily the only class that troubles me, but I find the challenge fun.
You can report it, but I wouldn’t get your hopes up about anything being done about it.
I hate people that do this, something should really be done to prevent this behavior. It’s probably on ANet’s ever growing list of things they get to eventually.
Confusion/epidemic isn’t new. Anyway, if all these top tier elite groups are having trouble with a handful of glamour mesmers, they should research condition removal. Especially the fields that provide that. Adjust.
Yeah but it’s easier to demand nerfs than to adjusts one playstyle.
Why not? I thought the aim of good class design should be balance overall. So in your opinion its ok for new players to be killed in 1 sec. Lets see how long this game will survive without new players.
So you think the game should be balanced around new players?
Let me guess, you play a thief? Of course nothing seems op to you. Perhaps you can explain me one thing: Why are there always 50% or more thieves in every spvp match? Is it because they are so hard to play? Is it because they are so underpowered and everyone loves a real challenge? Is it because 50% of all players always play stealth classes (don’t think so). I guess the real reason is, that thieves are the most stupid class in the game. Today I got 10000 dam with the bs combo on 3300 armor in 1 sec. Thats just silly.
Yes I do main a thief and actually I find bunker eles to be OP at the moment, but you won’t find me in their sub forum demanding nerfs. So far there’s a hard counter to every class I’ve found.
Since I don’t really play sPvP, I can’t really answer your question. All I can say it’s probably because in every PvP game, people will flock to the class they deem the most powerful. With the amount of whining in the thief forum, I wouldn’t be surprised if band wagoners were jumping on the thief train. From what I’ve heard, the class balance levels off in the higher level sPvP matches. What does that tell you?
Your opinion that the thieves are the most stupid class in the game is just that, your opinion. You say you got bursted with 10k damage by a thief combo? That’s great, that’s what thieves are meant to do. High burst on single targets, that’s their role, read the ANet blog on professions. Working as intended.
I’m not sure what class you play, but GC thieves are easily countered by either dodging the initial burst or doing what I do using which is utilising my stun break and countering resulting in either a dead or fleeing thief. I haven’t been bursted down by another thief in a long time. GC thieves I have no problem with whatsoever, they’re so predictable. Most people have worked out how to counter this gimmicky build by now.
As a thief myself, I’m okay with the OPs suggestion. A ranger’s pet being able to sniff out a stealthed target makes sense, you’d need to trait for it of course.
Every other suggestion after that is plain overkill and would destroy the thief profession. Too many people want stealth to be absolutely useless, which the thief relies on heavily for both offense and defense.
The main issue we all need fixed is culling.
I’m pretty sick of people discriminating against thieves in PvE. 100% of the time when someone starts whining about having a thief in the party, I outperform them in every way.
It’s usually the players that just want to ride on the back of classes that perform well in groups, like guardians, mesmers and to a lower extent warriors.
People need to remember not every thief is your fotm glass cannon DPS machine, there are many other perfectly good builds we utilise as well.
Like i thought all pro thief yep threads dead in the water now was a good debate while we had a lot of other people put in their 2 cents, its like a bunch of Romney supporters going to an Obama campaign he will just never win.
When you actually start debating something instead of crying in the corner, maybe we can have a proper discussion.
Exactly!
Pvp on the Main Map, The World map is Open World Pvp!
WvW is not an Owpvp cause it IS an Instance Pvp similar to sPvp.
I’m really amazed that tons of GW2 players cant see the difference at all.Because the only meaningful difference i see is that open world PvP has casuals in it – people that participate in PvP only as victims.
I understand that gankers want to have a herd of victims around, instead of only going at prepared targets. I understand it, but see no reason why GW2 should cater to that mentality.
LOL well said.
Nice build mate.
I was thinking about toying with a similar idea myself, but just never got around to it. It’s good to hear it’s viable and fun to boot.
I ran with an unskilled zerg last night and we took YB hills and garrison in 30 minutes. We had no plan, no commmunication and no rams. Unskilled zergs ftw!
You don’t need plans, communication or rams when you outnumber your foe so significantly. I experienced a few good fights with Yaks, but most of the time we just steam rolled them with sheer numbers.
DOOM & GLOOM!!
EVERYONE PANIC!!!!
Still queues in WvW all weekend and constant overflows in LA. If the player base is declining (I’m not saying it is or isn’t), I ain’t noticing.
When I come across something that is soulbound and can’t be salvaged, it goes in the Mystic toilet. Not ideal, but better than throwing it away.
What do you do with ascended rings then?
Don’t know, don’t have any.
I only ask because I have 12-14 taking up bank slots and it seems a waste to sell them for next to nothing to NPC merchants. But I guess that’s the only option ANet has left us with.
It appears the only people that have a problem with glamour mesmers are 2 D/D eles from OG.
Speaks volumes…