Guild Wars 2

I mean, I guess it would be ok if the Grub and Spirit would act as siege monster a la HotS. As long as there is fighting over objectives involved somehow.

I basically stopped because of the lack of satisfactory conclusion or “rewards”. If you struggle with a massive (and extremely fun) fight over a keep, there’s no real “end” to it. Once you finally get it after 1-2 hours you can’t just be happy with your performance, log out for the night and reap the rewards. Now, these rewards can be bragging rights for your guild, access to unique areas or whatever, doesn’t have to be gold.

Any PvE or PvP game have segmented play sessions. This would be possible in WvW if there was backdoor protection on the map or if a newly captured keep went invulnerable for an hour or so. You could relax after a nice big fight, breath out and feel good about yourself for a while before tackling the next challange.
Instead, you take an objective and as soon as you leave it will be flipped again. This means, once you succeed, you get punished with the most boring task of WvW. Babysitting your newly captured castle.

One could argue that there is a beginning and an end, but a week long match isn’t really something most players can see through to the finish line.
All this promotes the concept of actually avoid fighting and go for easy and fast caps.

Imagine a PvE raid dungeon that was so massive and reset every 24 hours that unless you played non-stop for those 24 hours you would never reach the end boss. You would grind the same content for ever, simply because the dungeon takes too long to finish. This is why dungeons are designed with a specific time frame in mind, so you can reach the end, chill with your guilds and feel good about beating the content.

TLDR; LAck of satisfactory conclusion to fights, captures and play sessions.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Elithion.3761:

I’ve seen in a lot of topics recently that state that the reason WvW is largely ignored is due to the fact that it generates almost no revenue for NCSoft

Not sure why this idea has spread. Players that are primarily WvW still buy skins, new hairstyles, and spend gems to get Legendaries. WvW players have, in addition, finishers to buy (at the very least, these used to sell very well).

In fact, my guess is that they spend more real money on gems than the average PvE player since WvW doesn’t net you nearly as much gold per hour as PvE so WvW players can’t convert as much gold to gems.

In fact, I think one can argue that WvW can make _more_money (relative to number of players) than PvE because it demands less dev attention. After two years of no new content, there are still people in WvW — would that be true of PvE? (Of course, there’s a limit to how far one can go in terms of giving zero support — WvW is currently in massive decline).

Hmm, look at the old PvE maps that haven’t been touched for 2 years. Not a lot happening there.

Not everyone wants to zerg WvW like EOTM. When I roam I don’t tag up because I want to duel and just have fun. Same goes for a 5 man party, up to guild raid. If I want to spam 1 and karma train, I tag up.

Taygus.4571:

How about you log in once every 2 weeks, but DON’T play the content, do this for 1 year. It should feel like an expansion then.

Welcome to WvW buddy…

Planetside 2, Arche Age, Aion, Rift. Some better then others.

A.

When I zerg this is the reason. Chill to some music while watching TV in the background. Games are not only fun, but relaxing^^

This used to be the case on reset night, then came masteries and pimped arrow carts and farmable ranks. What you suggest was once a part of WvW, sorry you missed it, it was a truly amazing experience.

Didn’t Aion do something similar? Sounds cool in theory but not sure how it worked in reality.

What few seems to understand is that the maps where designed with the orbs in mind. The home team had an advantage to snatch the orb and place it in one of their keeps. This functioned as an incentive for the invading teams to push upwards the map instead of sideways, focusing the battles around a particular keep. It was a crucial part of the map design. Without the orb its like playing a moba without a base to push towards, a ctf mode without a flag, turning into a simple points game without any goal or purpose to the map.

The argument that it was too easy to hack is just silly, there was suggestions made day one that you had to actually capture the keep or kill at least the lord before you could take the orb, a solution that would have solved most issues.

The reason I’m not angry is because there is none to be angry at. I’m not saying that the devs are incompetent (or maybe I am), but that there are none. I can bet everything I own in-game there is no dedicated WvW dev.
The team that made the game are long gone and we are left with second rate devs.

Wouldn’t be rocketscience. Just do like other games and have one “relaxed” mode and one ranked mode and put in a requirement of a minimum amount of games before you’re allowed to enter ranked mode. Maybe even force the guild to perfomr a number of unranked matches with the same team before it’s allowed ranked games.
As I said, plenty of games have done this before with great success.

I doubt the staff at Anet have ever played any competative game before, because everything “game-making” related seem to be such a chore for them.

I would happily have played GvG in a custom arena WITH PvP stats if it allowed for 15/20v15/20. I feel to many GvGers are too picky about it being PvE stats. If everyone plays according to the same rules (or limitations in this case) its all good.

I would like to see a 15v15v15 sPvP map, with a design that split the team up into 5 man. Because, imho, 2-5 players is where this game shines. I’m not sure why they insist on making everything zergy, PvE and WvW alike, when the game clearly is not build for it.
Make the teams Priory vs Secrets vs Vigil and let players repick which one, so not to divide guilds.

Having been here from launch, I’d say it’s already to late. The golden days of WvW are long gone. I remember battles in Garrison that involved 4-6 guilds fighting against eachother in different locations within that keep for hours. I look back fondly when we took the Vizunah home Garrison and had a constant battle for 3 days straight, day and night, having guilds releasing each other.
Logged back two or three times over the last 7-8 months and it’s nothing like it used to be.
Guild groups used to be around 15-20 guys, now they have expanded to 25 or even 30. It’s an unmitigated disaster.

As Cactus said, good, fleshed out suggestions have been posted since day one. All I’ve seen is devs jumping ship, one after another, seemingly confused about how to actually make games.

This, and all other suggestions, have been brought up and pointed out since launch. The Guild, as an entity, is worthless and will remain so for the forseeable future.

No.
We are here by choice, because we don’t want blobby lagfests or big zergs. We want to play with our guild against other guilds, preferably without any pugs at all.

- Far Shiverpeaks

Soothing Images, Ward Against Melee, revert blindness to GW1 style.
Problem solved.

DevonCarver.5370:

I wanted to pivot to something that Luna mentioned early in the thread, the idea of a more complex fight for Stonemist.

Would it make Stonemist feel too difficult to capture if the assaulting team had to capture and hold 3 capture points? Here are some of the problems I see with it.

1) It would encourage everyone defending to just blob up on one point and hold out as a group.
2) It could be so difficult to actually accomplish that it becomes nearly impossible to flip Stonemist.

However, I think it would be an improvement to the current rush the middle of the room scenario.

Do any of you think this version of Stonemist would be an improvement or does it not really make any positive changes in your mind?

If you want to be harder, jsut move the cap point up to the second floor like the good old days.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d say there is a pretty strong sentiment against the idea of collapsing all of WvW into 3 colors, rather than the current world set up. Which I agree with. I think world pride and association is an important part of the way that WvW works currently.

Here’s a possible version of shorter matchups that wouldn’t necessarily sacrifice the long term fight of a WvW matchup currently and wouldn’t involve merging everyone into one of three teams.

Matches last 8 hours, there are 21 matches in a week with the same 3 worlds, the winner of the week is the world that wins the most matches over the course of that time.

This solves some of the problems we see currently, namely the issues that can arise as matches get out of hand towards the end of the week. However, it would still give worlds with better coverage a leg up on their opponents. It also loses the feeling that you’ve had a long term battle for victory.

I’m curious what you all think of that? Does it retain the feeling of victory in WvW right now and solve problems or does it just introduce more issues without solving any core concerns?

I’ve been arguing for a scoring system like this for a long time. All for it!

I dislike PU, not as much for the build in itself, but rather the stealth system. It’s crippling and frustrating to get someone down to 10% health and they stealth…
All of a sudden, none of skills will hit, since you need a target. You know he’s RIGHT THERE, you can fire your auto or whatever in that direction, but nothing will hit. Meanwhile, you have clones and phantasms pounding you with damage which makes stealth even worse. Theives that stealth, gives both him and you an opportunity to breath, PU’s don’t.

Anyway, as someone said above, they take a bit longer to kill. Nothing OP about them, just annoying build.

Red vs Blue vs Green.
I play in the mid tier, by choice. I for one don’t want to play against 60-80 man blobs, I’m here because we want smaller fights )5-20).
If you want massive zerg battles, epic amounts of AC’s and 24/7 coverage, transfer up, because we in mid don’t really care about ppt.

If you, somehow, still want to be on “your” server and be competative in the ppt/coverage game, start recruiting off peak players and guilds, but don’t ask Anet to carry you to the top.

Justice is Blind?

My biggest beef with rangers is not build-related (I admit I know very little about them), but skill, or more accurately team skills. I have never, in the 18 months I’ve commanded, heard a ranger call a water field that wasn’t placed off to the side of nowhere.
When you call for soft CC, how often do you hear a ranger shout “MUDDY TERRAIN!”? As someone above me stated, there may be potential for the ranger, but most of them stand around, spamming 1, being useless.
I’ve seen a few go full tank in the melee train, but they just can’t compete with the guardian or warrior for that position, or even d/d ele for that matter.

I could see them as part of an assassin squad to provide cc for shatter mesmers against enemy casters out of position, but I’ve never heard a ranger suggesting this so I’m just gonna assume they can’t.

Bottom line, the class is weak in and of itself, but its made even worse by all the scrubs playing it.

What about having the inner walls and doors of a keep be invulnerable until you capture and hold two points in the courtyard( the area between inner and outer)? Would bring some more fighting between siege wars and give the defenders a chance to repell the invaders.

You get, if traited, Might, apply Burning, Regeneration, Retaliation, Stability and Stun Breaker/condition removal. Twice with Renewed Focus. The part where it refreshes all your virtues is just as important as the invul.

It just seems you are inexperienced with the class or just have a broken build. The reason why people don’t roam with guardian is because you can’t just run away if you mess up. These days, most roaming warriors carry a greatsword, simply to run away. Theives reset the fight 3, 4 times to get their game sorted out. Mesmsers carry max stealth builds.
I’m not saying all are bad, just why so many roam with these classes in particular. Theives is an excellent example. It’s designed to be a 1v1 class, but it’s not uncommon to see 2 or even 3 theives team up for roaming.

I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not, but I’ll bite.
I’ve mained as guardian since beta and it is by no means weak as roaming, except for running away and resetting the fight, you either win or die trying.
Imo, Renewed Focus is one of the best elite skills in the game as it complements any build.
reading through your post, it seems you have a twisted view on the classes.
Necro power build is valid, albeit not as faceroll as the terrormancer.
Warrior have amazing condi removal.
Rangers have the laziest build in the game.
Engi power build works as well, but same as necro.

You say when you “finally” reached 20 as assassin? In factions you went from 1 to 20 in less then a day.

Anyway, keep working on your build and skill and the guardian is by no means “weak” as a roamer.

Why do we need the ability to ress defeated players at all? The maps are not that big to begin with. Teach people to play and stay alive and don’t promote bad behavior.
I like the suggestion of forcing defeated players to respawn, there’s enough handholding as it is.

OPs idea have been suggested since week 1 of GW2. Still no change, don’t hold your breath.

I will repost here, since most can’t be bothered to actually read the thread and have their brains locked on this “night” thing.

1) Make a final upgrade that locks a keep for a certain amount of time. If you decide to upgrade it 9am or 6pm, that’s up to you.

2) Lower the ppt from structures, increase from kills.

3) Make smaller matches within the match. 6-8 hour shifts, that when done, gives match points to the winner and runner-up. If I’m being unclear, think scoring in tennis.

Depends I guess. Warriors and Guardians are very good in large scale fights, but on the duelling side it’s dominated by thieves and mesmers. Does that mean the game is broken?

Can’t they just close the homeborder for the server that is last, or make some sort of upgrade for keeps that protects them for x amount of hours, regardless of when during the day it is finished?

Another option is to change the ppt completely, dividing the day into Three 8 hour “shifts”. If you win the PPT game during one of those shifts you get 3 pts, 2nd gets 1 pt and last gains nothing. That way, pvdooring a few hours won’t skyrocket the points.

There are plenty of fairly simple solutions, just need to be creative and willing.

Its so fun to see random “slackers” defend payed professionals failures with arguments such as, “its difficult” or “it takes time”. There was even a reference to rushing a surgeon. Yes, I would tell the surgeon “Dude, its just an appendix, get it done”, because he’s trained for performing that task for 10 years and gets payed for it.
Anet’s product have flaws, and its said programmers and designers job to fix said flaws. If they cannot do it, they should be fired and replaced by someone who can.

If I could use only perform the tasks at work that are easy, uncomplicated and does not consume time, a monkey could do it.
Stop protecting devs like they are incompetent children.

I would suggest EU to begin with. Not that the NA servers are bad or anything, but the meta is a few months behind when it comes to the pvp part in WvW.

@Jscull
I’m guessing you didn’t play since launch, before the cap was introduced.
Try running through a choke with 5 superior arrow carts and you are starting to get a sense of how it was. The cap can be removed, but not without changes to AoE, like reduced radius, reduced duration and so on.
I know there are useful skills to have when running though such a deathfield, but atm we have to many unblockabkitten on strips and immobilizations to counter anything you throw at it.
With or without AoE cap 15 good guys will still win over 5 players of equal skill.

Yes, that’s exactly what he’s saying. However, ther are exceptions. Dzagonur is a great server to fight with open field guilds like BNF and Hot.

I think its very shortsighted by Anet to slack this much on the development front. Contrary to what many argue here, I do in fact believe that WvW pays the bills or at least partly so. An MMO is dependant on players. For WvW to be interresting, for anyone (even casual PvE visitors), ther has to be enemies to fight. We, in this case the players, provide the content that keep others around. And I’m willing to bet anything that, while not all, some of the players that enjoy WvW do in fact spend money for items or gold.
So, losing WvW players is a loss of revenue and I think its significant enough to warrant more new content then one npc by the name of Siegerazer.

Before the argument that making maps are hard and takes time, coding is not as easy as one might think, I want to argue that if I could only do what’s easy and fast in my job it would probably not be considered a job at all.
These people get payed to work. Time to see some result of that work.

The first time I logged into WvW back at launch, I actually thought I had to start in my own borderland and after that was conquered I could continue on to Eternal Battlegrounds. When an enemy keep was taken in EB that would make their borderland vulnerable. I thought there was some sort of link, attack line if you will, not that you could attack any objective at any map at any time.

Today I see Planteside 2 going the same route, maybe it wouldn’t be such a bad idea for GW 2. It would reduce the constant objective flipping and would provide keeps with a sense of purpose other then giving some arbitrary points. It would serve as a point of attack.

As many have pointed out in a previous thread (same OP?), my guild spend 6-10 hours every day in WvW. We feel entitled to spend a few hours each week to do GvG. Not only is it fun, but you get to really practice your skills as a team.
Now I know there’s gonna be talk about that 20v20 require no skill, to which I gladly invite said people to form their own 20 man team and take us on. We can play best of five, or a hundred see statistically if it is indeed as skillfull as flipping a coin.

Wouldn’t it be easier for all the guild interrested in GvG to stay out of tier 1 NA, since it seems those are the most kitten by it?

If something is good for the community, it’s GvG. People from all sides gather up, spectators duel, pigs are roasted, fireworks and dancing happens. Then the match begins with people cheering, watching the teams every move and 1 hour (give or take) of intense concentration and epic fights.
What’s not to love?

Well, GH is the most primetime heavy server I’ve seen. They bring EVERYONE out in primetime then it’s dead for 16 hours, more or less.

Regarding PvE or WvW, I think all servers from the lower half are PvE focused. Hell, even RiOT is a PvX guild.

EDIT: Ooh, and RoS have a very even WvW population, we don’t have a massive force of weekend warriors. We play the match for the whole week, don’t burn everything on the first few days
Watch it RoF, we are coming for those doors when the rest of you work!

Will you, by any chance, try to bring this into a custom arena when they are released?
I could most definitely see my guild doing weekly games, league style!

Just need to mention one ore thing. Its always so increadibly fun to see a thief jump into a 5-man group with a guardian and pop daggerstorm only to instantly die. I mean, you know EVERY single guardian carries an AoE retal as their utility.

Does this need a solution? If we clash with a mob that stacked retal, we immediatly hold off our big AoE’s until the 4-5 seconds have passed or our necros removed it. I thinkt he problem lies in people buttonmashing too much, not paying attention to buffs or how they take damage.

So, pro tip, if you’re a ranger, count to 5 before you unleash your barrage.

Ooohh, the IRON blob that covered the map from lake to briar. Still have nightmares of that.
Yesterday we got a taste of those times when we fought the french mob from Woodhaven to north camp, this time without the lag! It was a great fight.

Just one correction, it wasn’t the free tranfers. We paid for every single guildie to move to RoS.

Tier 1 much?
Server event or not, we are not gonna partake in it.
If this is how you want to win, by all means. PRXM, Cry Havoc, FURY, MARA, NOX, very dissapointed that serious guilds intentionally reduces the game to this.

We had one treb up already to destroy your treb firing at Bay. thought we may as well use it to break into the tower, but after about 10s of trebbing we all felt like slashing our wrists because trebbing is so fun. We had places to be, people to kill so we rushed it a bit.

Terrahero.9358:

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats… this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

Pardon me for saying, but what a load of crap.

Do you honestly think this is what the devs want? After they raised the Orange-sword warning from 5 to 25 and added a 30sec delay before a tower/keep/camp is shown as contested?

They want the exact opposite of what you are claiming, all these changes were made exclusively and specifically to get more ppl to babysit towers and keeps, because the warning of attack from the automated systems is heavily delayed. To the point that a keep or tower is all but lost by the time it actually pops up.

If you have two squads working each side of the map with the support of 2-3 roaming groups, you are set for defense. An enemy zerg can’t just roam around invisible on the map and with a half-decent wvw community you will get good information reported from all over the map, making it easier to respond to a potential threat.