Guild Wars 2 Forum

Let’s Talk Scoring…

Game Designer

Hey guys, as most of your are probably aware, Scoring Improvements won over QoL improvements in the last poll. So now it’s time to delve deeper into what that means.

We want to improve scoring for a few big reasons:

Reduce the need for 24 hour coverage by reducing the effects of off-hours capping (night capping)
- It’s not okay that the time periods with the smallest number of active players have the largest impact on the score
- Of course we don’t want to alienate players who play during these period, off-hours coverage will still matter, it just will no longer be the primary factor in determining which world wins any given matchup
Reduce the number of runaway matches
- That feeling of hopelessness when your team is down 100,000 points after a single day
Give players a real opportunity to make a comeback
- Matches are often decided in the first few days, making playing in the final days feel pointless
In conjunction with population rebalancing, updating Scoring allows us to decide a winner of a match more fairly, and thus reward players more fairly
- Currently we can’t give out worthwhile rewards for winning, as most match-ups are already decided before they begin

Next I’ll talk about how we plan to achieve those goals.

Changes to Match Structure:

We’ll split the week long matches into 2 hour time slices we are calling ‘Skirmishes’
Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement
Victory Points are used to determine Match victor
When a Skirmish ends, Warscore is reset, but actual map-state remains unchanged

Benefits

Winning a Skirmish by a small margin, or a large margin, awards the same number of victory points.
This keeps the winning and losing scores closer together, allowing the losing worlds a fighting chance
Teams will still want to win as many time slices as possible, off-hours coverage is still important, but less dominant

Potential (controversial) additional change:

While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.
This is the Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier system
- This system would multiply the Victory Points awarded by Skirmishes based on map populations and time of day.
- During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
- During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.
- It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

Last Stand

Last Stand describes the final day of any week long matchup
During Last Stand, Skirmish placement Victory Points are multiplied
This is intended to make the last day of the match as exciting as the first, and provide a final comeback mechanic for teams that are behind

Reduced the Score Tick Timer from 15 minutes to 5 minutes

This will guarantee that every objective is grants at least one score pulse before it can be flipped by another team.
Objective Score will be reduce by 2/3rds since they’d be ticking 3x as often. This keeps the relative score from all sources the same.
Reward Track points will also be ticking 3x as often, and likewise be decreased by 2/3rds.

Upgraded Objectives Score Higher

Each tier of objective upgrade increases the amount of score per tick
The goal is to incentivize defending your upgraded objectives and assaulting opposing upgraded objectives

Points for Capture

Capturing an objective awards immediate score.
If the objective is upgraded it is worth additional score.

Points for Kill

The amount of score earned from PPK will be increased, so that it contributes more to the overall score.
As a rough number, PPK may increase to 3-5 points, rather than 1, with diminishing returns on killing players who have been alive for less than 5 minutes.
We will also rebalance the Warscore for Caravan Kills, Caravan Delivery and Sentry Captures.

Many of these new systems and changes will also necessitate updates to the UI, to display all this new information.

Rewards

Once we have these scoring updates in, we can look at adding placement rewards for Skirmishes and Matches.

Edit – Fixed some minor errors in the text.

(edited 2016-05-10 20:31:31 by Tyler Bearce.3427)

What its like fighting scrapper sustain

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY2nVQNlUB8

Scott Sterling: inspiration for Scrapper design.

“http://tinyurl.com/zerkerberserker”
“http://tinyurl.com/Chronomistrust”
“http://tinyurl.com/flamewarrior”

World Linking Beta

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

A message from the World vs. World Team:

Hello Everyone!

The WvW World Linking Beta will be starting today at 11 AM PDT Friday (18:00 UTC Friday) for EU and 7 PM PDT Friday (2:00 UTC Saturday) for NA. When it begins several worlds will be linked to help even out WvW populations. We used factors like the world’s current rank and population numbers to define pairings. For NA we will be able to divide the total number of worlds in half, and give every world a partner. However, pairings for EU are a lot trickier, both because there is an odd number of total worlds, and because there is an odd number of specific language worlds. EU also has a greater number of well populated worlds, so it makes sense to link fewer worlds. The result is that a number of worlds in EU will not be linked.

We will be resetting glicko volatility and deviation for all worlds to the same value, but leaving their rating unchanged. What this means is:

The first matchup will use current placements (T1 worlds vs T1 worlds, T2 worlds vs T2 worlds, etc.)
The reset volatility and deviation values will come into effect at the end of that match.
Worlds that win, especially by a large margin, will have their rating increased by a larger amount than normal.
Likewise, worlds that lose, especially by a large margin, will have their rating decreased by a larger amount than normal.
The result is that when a world no longer is meant to be in a specific tier, they’ll move out of it more quickly.

Resetting glicko volatility and deviation also has the advantages of requiring no downtime! We considered resetting rating, but decided not to for this first beta of World Linking. For T1 worlds the rating itself will still be fairly accurate for the majority of players in those worlds. For new lowest tier, previously middle tier worlds, keeping their lower rating will still help prevent them from getting wiped by the T1 worlds. Keep in mind this is a beta, and in the future we may reconsider other options like a clean wipe or a weighted average, but for now we encourage you go check out World Linking!

As for the future, we may redistribute worlds as populations drift over time and because the system is flexible, we can potentially link 3 or more smaller worlds as appropriate.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

WvW Poll 04/28: Scoring vs. QoL (Closed)

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Posted by: McKenna Berdrow

McKenna Berdrow

Game Designer

The very first WvW Poll is up and the team would like the community to vote for which project we will be working on next!

https://feedback.guildwars2.com

Please use this thread to discuss or give feedback on the poll itself. We will be announcing the majority vote on May 4th, so be sure to get your vote in before then.

WvW Poll 04/28: Scoring vs. QoL (Closed)

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

Mystle.4538:
Can we just change team chat to something that will be seen accross all maps? We already have map chat; having both have the same function seems meaningless.

I think that’s the idea. Should be done together with scoring changes because increasing team communication would be such a huge impact.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

Now i get why Braham is bald

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Posted by: Day Trooper.3605

Day Trooper.3605

MrPinks.2015:
he lost his Eir

Hil-eir-ious!

Now i get why Braham is bald

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Sounds reasonable. He was Eir’s heir and when he lost his Eir he lost his hair. He is now Eir’s hairless heir. The next story line will have Eir’s hairless heir looking for a hare so the hare can be Eir’s hairless heir’s hare.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

Now i get why Braham is bald

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Posted by: penelopehannibal.8947

penelopehannibal.8947

Thanks for the Spoil-Eir alert! :p

Blood & Merlot [Wine]

Now i get why Braham is bald

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Posted by: Endless Soul.5178

Endless Soul.5178

Op needs to be pun-ished for this.

Now i get why Braham is bald

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Posted by: Chew.4810

Chew.4810

While I absolutely loathe the fact that he did, I like this pun :-D

Do you still hate the Desert BL after patch?

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Posted by: Kanebrake.6192

Kanebrake.6192

I think the key is that the increased population makes it much more enjoyable but when that dips down again I don’t think it’s going to be any different than before.

canons

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Posted by: dank.3680

dank.3680

If you can’t avoid the cannon while fighting, then don’t fight in the cannon range. It’s pretty easy, cannon user is stuck on a wall and has a finite range, you are not.

#MAGSWAG: All class player. XOXO

canons

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

You know you can destroy the cannons right?

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

Balancing elite specs

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

We all agree that elite specs are currently superior to core class. When introduced, elite specs were supposed to be an alternative playstyle but not a stronger one. This means elite specs were supposed to add build diversity by allowing your class to play new roles. Instead, the new role has now become the only role, all core builds being simply comparatively unviable. So build diversity went down drastically.

I believe this is a serious problem and the best way to fix it is to:

identify for each class which role the core specs excel at and which role the elite specs are suppose to add
identify which elements (traits, weapons or class mechanics) of the elite specs make them too strong

So here is my analysis. I am not fluent with all classes, so I may overlook some things. Please give me your opinion if you agree or disagree with me.

I went for the class in order (light -> heavy armor, low HP-> high HP) which makes me start with elementalist, probably one of the tougher nuts to crack.

Elementalist is one of the most difficult profession to analyse because I believe it has quite bad fundamental design preventing it to reach build diversity. This makes the profession severely overpowered in terms of damage (PvE) while not even able to play damage roles in PvP… Simply speaking, you cannot give a profession the lowest amount of armor and HP without giving him so good damage negation. Instead, elementalist is built around heals which are only periodically available.
Anyway…

Tempest has been introduced as a “mid-line” support specialization thanks to its aura in particular. The first time I read this I was puzzled, because I saw core elementalist already playing this role. But it is true that elementalist do not have utility skills devoted to support like many other classes (guardian shouts/consecration, mesmer glamour, ranger shouts now, etc…), so this is actually a nice addition. The problem is that elementalists already have strong support on their weapon skills. I would argue that they actually have the best support of any profession’s weapons.

So here, I don’t really know what is the best way to balance core and elite. I think the key question is to ask “if tempest is a support spec, what is core ele supposed to be?”. A-net is clearly pushing damage ele (scepter in particular) and this is a good thing. But I think the scepter is not the only thing which needs improvement: there needs to be better utility skills for this archetype. Arcane shield for example has a potential of being a very useful skill if it blocked a bit more than 3 attacks every 75s (!!!).

Then many of the heals on the weapon skills may need to be change to “personal” heals instead of many of them being AOE. Because currently, the healing support of tempest is just absurdly high.

Mesmer has always been a master duelist, either with its power or condi build.

Chronomancer has been introduced by a-net more by its theme (time control) than its role. But I think it is clear that chronomancer mostly brings team-fight and support abilities. First the shield allows the chrono to stay in fights where mesmer used to just die instantly, second with its wells, and in particular alacrity and quickness, the mesmer can support its team.

This is a good design concept and it “sort of” worked with chrono bunker appearing in season 1. But we see that chrono is still too strong compared to core mesmers, and actually, before bunker chrono became meta, we saw mesmers taking their new tools and play the old duelist role even better than before.

I believe what makes chrono stronger than core mesmer is:

Continuum split. After the big chrono bunker nerf, many mesmers thought of going back to core mesmer (the chronomancer traits bring barely any damage nor survivability) but CS is mostly what kept them playing chrono. This skill has to be nerfed, and I think the most reasonable way is to prevent CS from resetting elite cooldowns. This makes it less strong and also more interesting to play. I think CS could also been removed from F5 and put instead of F4 while F1-F3 were reworked in a more “chronomancer” fashion (see for example my suggestion https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/What-if-chrono-shatters-replaced-core-ones/first )
Shield: shield is our best defensive weapon, or best CC and our best support… That’s too much in one. I think the support aspect has to be kept, but the CC and defense need to be brought down a very little bit.
clone production: illusionary reversion and chronophantasma allow constant flow of illusions and made condi shatter nothing more than “shatter spam”. I used to love playing condi mesmer, but now it has become flavorless to me. That is not the question here, though. My problem with them is that I don’t think they fit the “chronomancer” theme and they belong to the illusion line in my opinion, and should maybe compete with each other.

In compensation to those nerfs, I think many chrono traits are a bit weak currently and need a little love.

Reaper was introduced as a melee-cleave version of necromancer, more at ease with multiple enemies than its mostly 1v1-centric core counterpart. To a large extent, I think it has worked well. The survivability of reaper in a team fight is greatly superior, especially if they use shouts.

I think what makes reaper stronger than necromancer is simply that reaper shroud is much more fluid and less clunky than death shroud. Necromancer pre-HoT was probably one of the weaker profession. So I think part of balancing core with elite in this specific case is to allow some improvements of the reaper shroud mechanics.

First, I think the attack speed of DS 1 should be improved to match the one of RS 1 (with a decrease in coefficients of course). Currently, this problem prevents traits like Dhuumfire to be balanced since their effect depends on the attack speed. Second, I think DS 2 projectile speed should be increased to make the skill and teleport more reliable.

Then, I think many things need to be change in both core necro and reaper to reduce the “passive” survivability (i.e. HP sponge) and add some active defenses. Also, there should be a lot of attention paid to the insane condi application of necro/reaper, but I think the whole condi concept need a big redesign to be honest.

Mesmer rework
Necromancer rework

World linking and names [Merged]

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Posted by: joneirikb.7506

joneirikb.7506

Something I’ve suggested before in regards to "Server".

To have a "/server" channel in the chat, this would be great for recruitment in WvW, to help people find players from the same server to join guilds etc, and not end up joining a new guild every time a Link is changed. Also good for calling for help in LA, or recruiting in PvE maps etc. It is still fully possible to disable it in chat options as normal.

A WvW home non combat map, similar to HotM map. Example pull out Citadel from Alpine and just make it into a small own stand alone map with all the features and functionality you would expect. Encourage people to use this as your "on call/demand city convenience" and encourage pve players to use it for TP, bank, crafting etc since it doesn’t affect queue’s on the actual WvW maps. This will give people a "home" place, a server specific place to recruit and look for people/guilds. And a place to Idle in WvW even during reset. Also good way for people to organize to run through portals at reset etc.

I would definitively want to keep name tags as our own server, and even see that "Kaineng captures camp!" instead of our host server, it would also give us a chance ot show them that we’re here and can do something (But yes I can see some of the issues there).

Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

What names did you come up with

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Posted by: Erthor Skeven.1680

Erthor Skeven.1680

Lord Kuru.3685:
Let me try:

Yak’s Bend & Anvil Rock = Yak’s Bend

Blackgate & Eredon Terrace = Blackgate

Jade Quarry & Isle of Janthir = Jade Quarry

Tarnished Coast & Kaineng = Tarnished Coast

Dragonbrand & Sanctum of Rall = Dragonbrand

Fort Aspenwood & Borlis Pass = Fort Aspenwood

Sea of Sorrows & Gate of Madness = Sea of Sorrows

Maguuma & Devona’s Rest = Maguuma

Stormluff Isle & Crystal Desert = Stormbluff Isle

Darkhaven & Ferguson’s Crossing = Darkhaven

Henge of Denravi & Ehmry Bay = Henge of Denravi

Northern Shiverpeaks & Sorrow’s Furnace = Northern Shiverpeaks

Wow, you must be really fun at parties!

Two precursor drops in an hour

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Posted by: Blockhead Magee.3092

Blockhead Magee.3092

RNGesus was looking down upon you

SBI

Two precursor drops in an hour

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Posted by: Vephar.8475

Vephar.8475

You go buy a lottery ticket right now!

The QQ about Queue Queues [Merged]

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Posted by: dank.3680

dank.3680

As if this is the first time reset night after a new patch brought big queues.

Calm down it will settle, save your judgement after you see how the week long match goes.

#MAGSWAG: All class player. XOXO

World linking and names [Merged]

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Posted by: joneirikb.7506

joneirikb.7506

Looks like it is time for a revision of WvW naming. Might as well take this chance to ask for a reduction in WvW names anyways. Getting sick of watching the huge roadsigns over every person.

Liked the base idea of Azerys, how about something like this: "Blue Knight BP [Guil]" or "Red Raider SoR [Guil]" or "Green Legend ET [Guil]" etc ?

(This would require a slight change to the WXP naming system, removing the bronze, silver, gold, mithril etc, and stretching the other titles out to cover the same bases).

And using color to signify the alliance, so all read enemies start with "red" which is the most important info, to identify which opponent/alliance you’re fighting against.

Open for ideas, just looked like the cleanest idea from top of my head. Clear and concise into, without more clutter than it needs.

Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

World linking and names [Merged]

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Posted by: EFWinters.5421

EFWinters.5421

You really need to rework this system ArenaNet. I’m from FA myself but it really sucks to see the smaller servers lose their identity.

I honestly don’t see how it would be hard to keep track of four servers instead of two.

Human Guardian
Fort Aspenwood

Give us back build diversity.

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

Yes please. I liked the idea of trying out builds others hadn’t considered because there were so many variables. I liked having a build no one else had.

Would it hurt the game any to at least give folks choices?

L’enfer, c’est les autres

Not Power creep. Ability creep

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Baha Thief and sustain this made my month

t2 desert camps

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Tyler Bearce.3427:
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Wow. This makes it pretty clear how good the WvW revamp is going to be.

why so much hate towards roamers???

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

rotsono.9176:
I dont mind the roamers that do smallscale fights with other roamers or some that fight 1vs1 somewhere.
The most hate goes to the roamers that are kinda annoying and run behind the zerg and try to gank people that stand to far away.
That roamers are mostly first target and getting chased down cuz they are god kitten annoying.

Those roamers are trying to teach you to stay on tag. You should be thanking them.

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

Revenent. Biggest Liability in Ranked?

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Posted by: Excelvior.8520

Excelvior.8520

Faux Play.6104:
Elementalists that try to dps on a heal build are the worst.

Guilty as charged
I tried to open the door to the lord in Foefire, wtf was I thinking… (magi amulet)

Got a Question about Ranks.

in PvP

Posted by: DeathReign.7821

DeathReign.7821

I’m Shark rank and I’m Diamond.

Neither really matters to me, but to say that only Dragons and above should participate in ranked and anyone under 80 is inexperienced is stupendously inaccurate.

Kiss the chaos.

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