Guild Wars 2

RIP A$AP Zerg,

RIP GW2 PVP

Silverkey.2078:

mistsim.2748:

i give zero kittens about balancing elite specs. bring up the core specs to the same level first. this should be priority.

I believe this is the wrong way to go:

• buffing a core class also buffs the elite spec. As long as the two don’t have clear role separation, they don’t work independently.
• It is easier to bring the elite spec (only one traitline, 1 weapon, 1 skill category and 1 class mechanics) to core level than the core (5 traitlines, many weapons, many skills and 1 class mechanics) to elite level.
• pre-HoT was reasonably well balanced, with all classes almost as viable (ranger a bit weak but still played sometimes, ele a bit strong, the rest fine) and some having decent build diversity (medi-power-guard, medi-burn-guard, bunker guard for example, shoutbow and rampage warrior, etc…). Bringing elite specs in line means that this balance and diversity immediately comes back too.
• power creep has really made the game less fun. PvP has become AOE CC and AOE damage and passive survivability everywhere. No need to target, no need to time your skills, just use everything out of cooldown and it will work more or less fine. Every class evade or blocks for half the time.

So no… nerfing elite specs is by far the best way to go.

(or maybe I misunderstood your message, it was not fully clear to me)

This exactly

How about just revert the game to pre HoT.

I am completely serious

Great work, I agree with nearly everything and believe that this is a step in the right direction for this game. As of now I am quickly becoming fed up with the powercreep and lack of skillful counterplay that was so characteristic of Gw2 prior to HoT. Anyways I forsee a long break and or quitting of the game in the near future if PvP remains in its current state.

By the way I was wondering if you overlooked chronophantasma as I believe that it is a key contributor to the entire spam your shatters mesmer fad.

Exedore.6320:

How about a “no HoT” tournament?

That way everyone can see how fun and enjoyable PvP is without the out-of-control power creep.

I wish storm would do this for ag

I for one would love to see elite specs be brought into line with core ones, but Arenanet obviously dosent share that sentiment. This game is about making them happy after all right?

Right now every class is a faceroll.

Maybe 10 months or a year ago it was a differnt story.

Mesmer main here, I completely agree.
Also please give power some love to bring it into a semi-competitive place.

+1 8^)

Eurantien.4632:

Unless you’re attempting to compete in Pro Leagues then you don’t need Heart of Thorns to win. There are a lot of core builds that can be successful all the way up into legendary. When they aren’t successful is when fighting teams using VOIP that know whatever your weakness is.

of course you dont need it, but at an equal skill level the person with the better (HoT) build is gonna win 9 times out of 10

Lol maybe try the sticky at the top of the pvp forums?

Overall i agree, being a mesmer main i will suggest a remedy for the situation.
The first step is to either drastically increase continumm split cd or not make it work with elites. Secondly time catches up should provide swiftness/resistence to illusions rather than superspeed, as that trait absolutly kills the skill associated with setting up a shatter. Next nerf chronophantasma or whatever its called by either doubling the daze or by giving it a semi hefty icd, 15sec? Finally buff the shatter and greatsword damage a bit to make power the meta again

Was just wondering if you (Anet) could give the PvP community a straightforward answer on addressing the powercreep introduced with elite specializations. Will they ever be brought in line with the core specs to keep build diversity intact? Or are they, being ‘elite’ supposed to fill the role of a mandatory choice in order to remain competetive. No disparagement intended, would simply love an honest answer.

Thank you in advance.

Its not great, but ive found the most viable build to be dom chaos chrono with gs sword torch, marauder and scholar runes. Pu gives decent sustain and the burst potential isnt completely terrible

+1 this game is garbage

Was really fun and immersive in competetive pvp prior to HoT, but the atrocious balance a week before the qualifier and ever since has made this game a complete joke. Nothing but spamming skills and reaping the benefits of passive procs. Anet you had potential for a new esport gametype but kitten the bed with heart of thorns and poorly implemented pro leagues

+1 to op

Id support a system involving Amber you cant lose anything
Emrald you cant lose tiers or divisions but you can lose pips
Saphire you cant lose divisions but you can lose pips and tiers
Ruby you can lose divisions pips and tiers (everything)
Diamond same as ruby
Legendary same as ruby

Coming from someone that has played on PvP teams near the very higgest level, I share my insight as to how ArenaNet could calm the outroar of PvP inbalance.

I believe the best way to go about balance in the PvP setting involves 4 steps as follow:

1) Forget about WvW and PvE balance for the moment. As cool as it would be, trying to find the optimal balance between three differnt gamemodes that satisfy three differnt communities is a ridiculous goal that frankly will never be accomplished. Of the three gamemodes, PvP is by far the most flismy in terms of weathering class imbalance, and as such should be the primary target for this balance undertaking. Not to say PvE and WvW do not matter, but their balance can be implemented by minor tweeks and number buffing/shaving after the individual skills have been adjusted for PvP.

2) This brings us to point number two. Shaving numbers off the elite specs is the single largest requirement for a balanced environment. Not only has this imbalance between core and elite specs caused countless complaints both on the forums and ingame, but it has also served to completely nullify any investment made into GW2 Esports. The blatant advantages gained by picking elite specs have completely obliterated build diversity, giving players only 2 traitlines to pick from as opposed to 3. Additionally the superiority of the elite specs has served to alienate free to play members, and cost you (ArenaNet) thousands of potential customers. Nerf EVERY elite specialization until they are in line with the core specs.

3) This one is pretty short and easy to understand, use the metagame from pre HoT as a gauge of power level so as to avoid powercreep. The pre HoT meta was arguably the most balance this game has ever seen, and as such developers need to use it as a guide of sorts.

4) Buff or rework any skills or traits or weapons that never see the light of day. I put this as number four because while it would add to the overall health of PvP, it is not initially a must have for a balanced environment (assuming they complete steps 1-3).

Sarrs.4831:

I thought the balance in the pre-hot patch was actually quite good, once the elementalists got toned down.

It’s impossible to say how good balance would be in the current state of the game, with the new amulets added and the old bunkery amulets banned, but I don’t think it would be worse.

Broadly speaking, I think it would be really fun if there were a mode with only core specs. I like the idea of game modes with manipulations like that.

Also broadly speaking I wish that core specs were more viable than they currently are. Part of the problem with elite specs at the moment is that, in most cases, not taking the ES is rarely if ever viable.

This exactly, +1 for writing this out

Yes, elite specs have ruined this games pvp and potential for esports

1- expand the map amd distance between nodes

2- remove all panels and drops off the edge of the map, maybe walls to avoid being knocked off

3- rework the skyhammer, add a pathway up rather than a portal, remove cc on skyhammer

True, Grouch usually takes 5+ months to get prizes out, which is indeed ridiculous, but hey hes never jipped me of my well deserved gems

Yup its really a shame. Prizes are amazing and yet noone shows intrest.
NA ag will be gone in a few weeks no doubt, only had like 5 teams the past couple of weeks

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FGuildWars2PvPTeams%2F

Check this out as well.

1) Eliminate power creep, nerf ALL elite specs to be more in line with the core ones.
2) Promote more skillfull play, actual cast times/animations and redistribution of damage into high damage or high utility skills, ie pindown from shoutbow meta
3) Completely remove passive procs, in relation to 2
4) Promote more community tournaments such as AG weekly, advertise them more
5) TEST BALANCE PATCHES PRIOR TO RELEASE AND MAKE NECESSARY TWEAKS AFTER ROLLOUT

+1 couldnt agree more

Over time and namely with HoT the game has sifted away from highly telegraphed single skills that put the dodge mechanic to its full potential and instead become an aoe spam your skills off cooldown fest that relys on dodging as a brief invulnerability as oppsed to a way of skillfully negating single blows. I miss the days of pindown and engie pulls where doging the hardest hitting skills could win you the fight.

On EVERY elite spec. Bring back build diversity and give us 3 traitlines to work with rather than 2. The elite specs already offer and entirely new mechanic, and as such the lines themselves need some serious trimming in order to bring them back into the fold of equivalence.

This is coming from someone who has bought HoT and ONLY cares about the overall health of gw2 pvp.

Kayberz.5346:

TheLargeUnit.2793:

Actually lile salamander already pointed out, the meta im refering to was after the nerf to dd eles. As to your definiton of meta as must have, meta simply refers to builds that are viable and frequently used at the highest level of competetive play. Something can be meta without being required on every team.

With that being said, you wont see any guardians or warriors or even thieves on any of the top tier teams right now. Druid only gets taken for SnR and mes is carried by an aids condi build. Right not the meta revovles around 3 or 4 builds not the surplus of “good” builds we used to see

My point still stands
Your mis-remembering the diversity of the meta back then, 1 or 2 random teams in the lesser tourneys running “viable” builds that get eliminated early or mid way through doesnt make the builds meta (by gw2 pvp communities definition and standards)

Even after the nerf the “top” teams were all still pretty much running double d/d ele.

Its literally the same situation now, there are many good builds on classes that can be considered “meta” but they arnt being run by the top teams because you only can fill 5 slots and they are choosing the most efficient TEAM comp, while also considering whats popular right now.
,
As an example mesmer could be considered “meta viable” back in the day if you played well (Helseth) but MOST teams didnt run it because thief filled a similar role while ALSO being a hard counter to mesmer. Overall thief was more popular and considered “meta” while mesmer was not, even though they were both arguably equally viable mesmer was not considered a “meta” class simply because the presence of thiefs pushed mesmer out

Im done posting here but obviously you are the one misremembering, as like I said all of these builds could be found in ESL tournaments, tournaments that dictate the meta.

this game is garbage, anet is garbage

Actually lile salamander already pointed out, the meta im refering to was after the nerf to dd eles. As to your definiton of meta as must have, meta simply refers to builds that are viable and frequently used at the highest level of competetive play. Something can be meta without being required on every team.

With that being said, you wont see any guardians or warriors or even thieves on any of the top tier teams right now. Druid only gets taken for SnR and mes is carried by an aids condi build. Right not the meta revovles around 3 or 4 builds not the surplus of “good” builds we used to see

lighter.2708:

TheLargeUnit.2793:

-Dps war

wot mate

Rampage gs axe shield cwysis warrior sound familiar?

Kayberz.5346:

TheLargeUnit.2793:

I beg to differ. It is known that the meta immediately before HoT dropped had at least 1 meta build for every profession. The potency of each was well equalized, as none significantly outclassed another at doing the same role.
-Signet Necro
-Power Pu Mes
-D/F ele
-D/D ele
-Staff ele
-Shadow arts thief
-Pistol cele engi
-Soldiers rifle engi
-LB Power ranger (taken by 2 top esl teams)
-Burn ranger (a less known build that was extremely effective)
-Bunker guard
-Burn guard
-Dps war
-Shoutbow (only eu meta)

There you go all 8 profs having at least 1 viable build. If you dont believe me that all were used in competetive play i will happlily find you esl footage

You can list just as many build right now that are comparably competitive as your list,
Half those build werent considered “meta” and were not actually used widely, they were “good” builds,

Only difference now is that the league system encourages people to play the “best” builds more than the game did befor that, build diversity didnt change, the incentive to play " best" builds increased.
,
People are sheep and will gravitate towards what meta battle tells them

Which ones wernt meta? Please like I said give me specifics and I will find footage proving you wrong. The number pales in comparison to the fact that every profession had a place. Being a tournamnet player I saw every single one of these builds used consistntly.

I beg to differ. It is known that the meta immediately before HoT dropped had at least 1 meta build for every profession. The potency of each was well equalized, as none significantly outclassed another at doing the same role.
-Signet Necro
-Power Pu Mes
-D/F ele
-D/D ele
-Staff ele
-Shadow arts thief
-Pistol cele engi
-Soldiers rifle engi
-LB Power ranger (taken by 2 top esl teams)
-Burn ranger (a less known build that was extremely effective)
-Bunker guard
-Burn guard
-Dps war
-Shoutbow (only eu meta)

There you go all 8 profs having at least 1 viable build. If you dont believe me that all were used in competetive play i will happlily find you esl footage

100% agree with OP, HoT ruined this game by turning coordinated teamplay into boon block blind evade aoe fest. They doll out resistence and stability and protection like candy all the while adding insane amounts of cc potential. What happened to saving and timing your skills?

I completely agree but unfortunatly nothing will ever get done. This game was ready for esports until the HoT powerstampeede killed it

Support canning elite specs and going back to the pre expansion meta, a meta in which EVERY profession had at LEAST one viable build?

Or are the new shinys too tempting, are new abilities and missing counterplay your cup of tea?

This meta blows kitten

plz dont blame grouch, he is tied up in my basement.

It puts the lotion on its skin

+1 totally agree, it seems that this game has evolved around Anet trying to pacify its player base by giving them more and more shiny new skills and traits. In order to reinforce the “cool new stuff” factor they completely overdo the potency which results in a disgusting power creep as we have seen over the past 8-14 months.

Buying a team position for the upcoming challenger cup. Gold or Gold + Skins. Message TheLargeUnit.2793 in game for details and negotiations.

The meta speaks for itself.

Edit: CSGO is a pretty good esport if anyone wants to get their fix of competetive play

It’s awful. Would 100% rather have shoutbow vs DD ele then this kitten.

Was there a stream of it? I didn’t see one.

please give us this QoL change +1

+1 please do this

Glaphen you play a bunker thief that throws every game so im taking your opinion with a grain (more than a grain a gram) of salt. Again you are describing the ideal situtuation, which GOOD chronos can pull off MAYBE once every game or 2. Try playing a zerk spec before you start BMing mesmers.

Chrono in this meta is the the rampage warrior of the last meta while regular mesmers still fufill that stealth burst +1 role
You have to build your comp around chronos to see them do decently

If chrono is so good why arnt any winning teams (besides helseths) taking them?

Because taking chrono absoluly destroys ones defensive capabilities. Lacking PU, chronos drop near instantaniously with any coordinated focus fire. Look at the AG weeklys or ESLs if you dont belive me on this point. And yes, this is assuming they take the metabattle shatter spec. Chrono offers more damage, but not enough damage to give up dom or duel, it offers less sustain as you are forced to give up illusions or chaos. Because 99% of mesmers sustain comes from traits, you are making a trade to take a more damage oriented build unlike other specs that get huge benefits with little to no losses.

Please dont tell me about the perma block or evade on chrono,
Bf roots you in place and as such is a death sentence against competent opponents, distortion is almost always a 1-2sec invlun not a 4sec, and the shield block is max 4 1/2 sec on a 30sec cd. Not to mention ZERO condi clense

Chrono is nowhere near the 3rd best spec. In competetive play it is borderline viable at best, and requires a coordinated team for peels and counter pressure. In solo q I have found chrono to go both ways, depending on the enemy comp. I would agree with the statement that Chrono is in a fairly good spot with regaurd to the ideal balance; rather than being a blatant upgrade it accomplishes its own playstyle outside pf a few traits. The gap between chrono and mesmer is actually one of the smallest in elite specs vs normal specs

God tier: Scrapper, Reaper, DH
Good tier: Druid, Tempest, Hearld
Maybe Viable? Tier: Chrono, Daredevil
Get off my team tier: Berserker

kdaddy.5431:

I dont know what the current system for it is but i think it should be like a real NBA playoffs.

Best of 3 team that wins moves on, no 2nd chance.

When i played competitively we always said we play the team in front of us.

Cant worry about all the other stuff, if your competing for a championship you gonna compete vs the team that wins anyways. Depending on how prizes work but only teams set to be 3rd and 4th or 5th and 6th should play to be crowned for that spot.

Come on this is for real now, go big or go home

I think you are a little confused. The problem is that 4 teams are moving on, so instead of 1 clear winner there are 4. Say for example for whatever reason spookie and radioactive end up in the same side of the bracket, one of them would be eliminatred even tho both are arguably top8
Na

+1
15char—————-/

Because there is so much money up for grabs, and because this qualifier is apparently single elimination, I would just like to stress the importance of objective seeding. I know in past gw2 ESL Cups the organizers have included more than their fair share of bias in determining seeding positions, so as a player I hope that whatever decisions are made are based on RECENT placements for an actual team, as opposed to one or two individual players.

Single elimination? Really? I guess seeding is going to be 99% of qualifying.