Guild Wars 2

EARL.8312:

what about the pug unfairly matched vs premade guild?

Sounds like working as intended. That’s why they removed solo queue, right?

It’s good we’re finding bugs two years after implementation.

The problem I have is this:

If you look at the previous updates they were very blunt about what was coming up. Same with HoT for now. They have told us a lot about what we should expect (including all the traits, coming up specializations, etc). What this means is what they aren’t telling us they don’t know / don’t have prepared.

They won’t respond on the direction of PvP because, at least I think, nobody really knows. In the past they would say things they didn’t know and they didn’t come true. Now they don’t say anything so there’s no expectation.

Exciton.8942:

Shoutbow warrior, probably.

oh yeah shoutbow forgot about that one

seriously those are worse to fight than turret engies … at least fights with turrets end

Bunker guard is kinda bad. Power Ranger is probably going to get more popular again. Maybe they’ll just stick to turrets because what else can they do. Other engy builds are almost as mindless too.

omg this idea is awesome

physicks you’re awesome

I’d like to point out that the only people advocating for this ladderboard are those with lots of time and no skill. Which I guess is fine, if we want a ladderboard that shows who plays the most instead of, well, those who literally lead the board.

The MMR based leaderboard was definitely more correct just had some flaws that needed to be bumped out. I don’t know why it was thrown out entirely.

SobeSoul.6910:

I disagree with your analysis. The way to build competition is having automated tournaments that only full parties can enter. Maybe 4 to 8 teams that run all the time provided enough teams are on to fill up spots. Make them reward gems or a quantity of gold worth players’ time.

You want bigger and better tournaments then it has to start with providing players in game with an incentive and actual experience.

The MMR system does nothing particularly for building tougher competition in actual tournaments.

That’s what they had when the game launched. 8 man tournies were the only way to play competitive PvP, I don’t even remember there being hotjoins (definitely no arenas). It was fun, but the queues were long especially if you went out first round. And while I really enjoyed this system, it did have its flaws and it’s probably best they got rid of it. If we want to bring something like that back, we need baby steps. First we need to get more people playing, then we can start branching out into more sophisticated ideas.

Sunfish.5970:

“only thing they care about: pvp” wut?

He’s obviously trolling.

But I’m super scared of the Necro elites right now. Luckily Banner is too broken for most people to take Juggernaut but that’s also super scary.

As much as ANet is putting money into tournaments and stuff, all of their game changes seem to have no intention of forming a competitive community. Besides the obvious “they haven’t put in a balance patch in a year”, it seems they want to close the gap between experienced and new players. Skill differentiation is necessary for competitive development, we must trust our new players to learn the tricks of the trade.

Sidenote, somewhat unrelated I guess (working off my last point). If I see something I haven’t seen before, ie. an interesting teleport, as a player I would remember this cool trick and perhaps even search for more. Advanced mechanics are not a bad thing, look at every other competitive game (DotA with orbwalking, CS:GO switching guns after shooting, even something like wavedashing in SSBM). Removing these things is just harmful, it prevents the player from exploring game mechanics and warping them to play the best.

Basically, the few hundred players that actually care about the competitive environment is not enough for ANet to dedicate resources. And it’s a catch-22 since we’re not going to get more people that care without the obvious fixes that we need, hence what you already posted.

I find it really interesting that the biggest balance change in the past 2 years is sneaking its way into the game without any community discussion. We love talking about a bunch of negligible number changes to get people hyped but not something that’s going to actually change the game dynamics.

If this is true, this is going to change so many things. Thief is gonna be pushed out hardcore because no longer is fast backcapping an option on most of the maps. Medi Guard loses the gap closer. Mesmer and Necro can’t kite nearly as well as before (Flesh Wurm is ruined?)

I just hope that a) teleports aren’t completely broken after this (because face it, they don’t work half the time anyway) and b) it doesn’t reward static play sitting behind doing jack-all because nobody can reach you anyway.

Rangelost.4857:

All tiers: most players are so gullible they actually believe in a “meta”, and when they end up falling for it, they get absolutely destroyed by anyone who is using a custom build.

Don’t be a fool. If you’ve so much as seen this game’s publicized competitive scene, then you already know better than to try and play like that. It’s just embarrassing.

You can try to form a team with all your meta-breaking underground builds and quickly realize people play the “gullible” builds because they beat you.

Current meta: you press all your buttons and you maybe hit one of your abilities but you’re playing cele engy/ele or shout warrior so aiming doesn’t really matter and nothing you do has any consequences because sustain and doom sigil is gonna proc anyway.

Basically: a bunch of builds that get nothing done eventually cap a point in a year after a thief presses F1 or a necro presses corrupt.

I think I nailed it.

literally the best

kdaddy.5431:

Ostricheggs.3742:

funny, I’ve fought them about 10 times the last few days while solo queueing

hahahaha well i guess that means im not at your level but i actually wouldnt mind the challenge. I rather lose badly with a bunch of good players then win a match where everyone ran around mindlessly.

The horror stories of playing some of these matches.

The challenge isn’t bad when you’re queuing with 5 but it’s not very enjoyable when you run in solo.

I don’t see how this has anything to do with PvP.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I hate logging off on a bad note so I tend to keep playing until I feel as though I’ve had a match where both teams felt strong and I either won or lost based on our cumulative merit and not people being new, bad, or unsportsmanlike.

So you never log off?

I should just set up a notepad with my copy pasta, as I will continue posting this until people understand the real problem with poorly designed builds.

Title: Everyone is Approaching This Incorrectly

The argument whether turret engy is strong, weak, or whatever is completely irrelevant. Frankly nobody cares. The main points to why turret engy is bad (not weak, but bad in concept) are as follows:

1. It advocates sitting on a point and not moving. This isn’t how the game is meant to be played. New/bad players who run this build will show no improvement (this is bad in the scope of players indirectly affecting how the game develops, aka affecting the meta).
2. It’s mindlessly easy for the reward it brings. Why bother playing a difficult class when I could just do nothing and achieve the same results?
3. Knockbacks are absurdly frustrating. Losing control of your character is super annoying and that’s what the build is centered around.
4. Nobody enjoys fighting against AI. Beating a turret engy doesn’t have the same satisfaction of beating anything else. Beating another player makes me feel like I did something to outdo my opponent. Breaking a bunch of static objects does not give me this feel.

All in all, it shouldn’t (and frankly, doesn’t) matter the strength of the build. What does matter are the points listed above, and because of that it displays poor design in mechanics as opposed to poor number choices. The build doesn’t need a nerf, it needs a rework (or a stake in its heart, whichever is easier).

Knighthonor.4061:

Wilco.1458:

Knighthonor.4061:

Blair.3796:

It’s not the turret engi’s fault that so many self-proclaimed “gud” players can’t l2p.

Less nerf for viable builds, more buffs for less-viable builds.

This^

I believe the Turret Engineer is OP in SPvP, but no more nerfs…

how about Buffing weaker classes and builds…

No, this is so incorrect. It’s okay to buff weak stuff to meta (aka broken) stuff when the broken stuff is at a workable level. Right now, the strong things are -so strong- that buffering weaker stuff to the level puts us right back in the same situation right now. Nothing should be buffed until we get rid of stupid things that lack counterplay (aka anything that is worth playing).

Back on topic: the argument that turret engineer is overpowered is irrelevant. The build is broken in the fact it’s high reward for literally doing nothing, AND that is’t super boring to play against. In game design you should consider both playing for and against. The strength of the build doesn’t matter, the problem is it is bad design and bad to play against.

Turret engineer shouldn’t be nerfed, it should be removed entirely.

no, because Turret Engineer is only strong in SPvP, everywhere else in the game its not strong.

This is exactly why I dislike small scale PvP, because Small Scale gameplay make certain classes more stronger than they actually are in any of the rest of the large scale gameplay elements. SPvP is a small part of the game.

This is a PvP forum. We talk about PvP here. And you obviously didn’t read my post, because the argument of strength is completely irrelevant, it’s just not good game design that it exists and something should be done about it. This applies to all game modes.

Knighthonor.4061:

Blair.3796:

It’s not the turret engi’s fault that so many self-proclaimed “gud” players can’t l2p.

Less nerf for viable builds, more buffs for less-viable builds.

This^

I believe the Turret Engineer is OP in SPvP, but no more nerfs…

how about Buffing weaker classes and builds…

No, this is so incorrect. It’s okay to buff weak stuff to meta (aka broken) stuff when the broken stuff is at a workable level. Right now, the strong things are -so strong- that buffering weaker stuff to the level puts us right back in the same situation right now. Nothing should be buffed until we get rid of stupid things that lack counterplay (aka anything that is worth playing).

Back on topic: the argument that turret engineer is overpowered is irrelevant. The build is broken in the fact it’s high reward for literally doing nothing, AND that is’t super boring to play against. In game design you should consider both playing for and against. The strength of the build doesn’t matter, the problem is it is bad design and bad to play against.

Turret engineer shouldn’t be nerfed, it should be removed entirely.

Why bother viability when that’s completely apart from the point. The point of the conversation -should- be “this is a build that shouldn’t be in the game because it advocates being afk, also is the most boring and awful thing to play against.”

Of course it is strong, but of course it is beatable. But really nobody cares, or at least you shouldn’t. Nobody likes to play against it and that’s all that matters.

AFK specs like turrets are just bad for the game, promote bad play, and create really dumb walls that don’t allow people to actually enjoy PvP (or get better at it).

Support 100%

10/10

Elegy.2159:

BlackBeard.2873:

(with that nice, FREE, 7-8s burn buried deep in there)

How is the burning “free” when the engineer has to go at least 4 deep in a purely offensive traitline to have it?

Because you have to go 6 into the line anyway.

Xillllix.3485:

The only OP thing right now is Mesmer daze, Immob stacking and Ranger Longbow.

The ranger longbow should do like 50% less damage at 600 range and 25% less at 900 range.

What what now? Can you repeat that? I think I misheard.

Coulter.2315:

Wilco.1458:

I also think another thing completely overlooked by many is that rifle has +100 weapon damage (hence +100 power) on the one-handers.

Balance doesn’t mean everything the same, if you gave +100 power to 1 handers you’d find they were all OP because everything has been given coefficients for damage around the lower number to keep it in line. Lots of different things go into a weapon from base attack to speed you can’t just look at 2 handers and expect the extra damage hasn’t been taken into account when crafting the skills.

I never said anything like that. I just said the extra 100 power from rifle on engineer adds a lot of damage over the original pistol/shield or pistol/pistol build.

I also think another thing completely overlooked by many is that rifle has +100 weapon damage (hence +100 power) on the one-handers.

Exedore.6320:

Simon.3794:

They really need to nerf power scaling on engi skills, because engis dont might stack. and still crits for a ton.

Power scaling on engineer weapons is fine; it’s too weak if anything. The typical celestial rifle engi build has 1840 power before any might stacks because they put 6 points in their power trait line yielding +300 power. Throw in 6 stacks of might and they’re over 2000 power; 9 stacks and they’re over 2100, which is around what you’d see on a zerker profession.

I also think it is fair that Pry Bar hits for 5k.

(this is sarcasm)

glock.6590:

Mesmer and thief are not that hard to be honest. I played engi ( usually thief) for the recent days and its not as faceroll as people think even if you’re celestial. The only faceroll thing about cele engi is the supply crate, without crate it really has a high skillcap.

I cant talk for cele ele but cele engi is definitly not faceroll if you dont crate your 1v1’s.

Mesmer and Thief are significantly harder, and always have been significantly harder, to play than any engineer.

Okay maybe not the first month where heartseeker spam was how you won the game but after that!

WvW meta, to my knowledge, is very similar to PvP meta except they use staff. Some might argue using more offensive traits but I assure you they’re incorrect. PvE I am unsure, I know Frostbow is popular. The thing is, I think most Elementalist changes will not affect the other game modes at all.

I just want to see a traitline that isn’t bad and doesn’t require 12 points into water and arcane. Fresh air is a fresh (hah, pun) start but two builds for Elementalist is just silly.

Also I really hope that the moving traits around because PvE unlocking traits thing isn’t an argument they actually use, else we have a grim future ahead of us.

Actually I think it’d be really interesting if the strongest traits were the minors, and the weaker traits were the majors. I don’t know how good that well be game-design but it would be something new.

Hello team,

Besides the celestial balance issues, I think the main problem with Elementalist is that we have no trait points to move around. I have drawn up some concepts that should spice up all the trait lines and hopefully make more viable and promote more diverse builds.

I’d like to preface saying I have no idea how balanced these ideas are, so please ignore numbers or percentages because it’s too hard to judge before actually seeing anything in action. Think conceptually here.

Fire:
1. Remove Flame Barrier, replace with: “remove chilled when attuning to fire.”
2. Move Renewing Stamina to adept in Fire. Remove Conjurer.
3. Remove One With Fire, replace with: “refresh fire attunement when you get burned. 10 second cooldown.” (Perhaps make this grandmaster and move Persisting Flames to master.)

Air:
1. Rewrite Zephyr’s Focus as: “endurance regenerates 25% faster while attuned to air.”
2. Remove Soothing Winds, replace with: “air attacks heal self for 10% (5%?) of the damage dealt.”
3. Arcane Lightning moved to Arcane.
4. New master trait: “blind target on crit while attuned to air. 10 second cooldown.”

Earth:
1. Merge Signet Mastery and Written in Stone. Keep as grandmaster.
2. Move Diamond Skin to adept. Rewrite as: “conditions wear off 20% (33%?) faster when attuned to Earth.”
3. New grandmaster trait: “nearby enemies have cast times increased by 20% while attuned to earth.” (Is this possible? It sounds cool.)

Water:
1. Merge Cantrip Mastery and Soothing Disruption. Rewrite as: “Cantrips recharge 20% faster and remove a condition on cast” (no more vigor or regeneration). Keep as master.
2. Merge Soothing Wave and Cleansing Water. Rewrite as: “remove a condition and grant regeneration for 5 seconds when critically hit. 10 second cooldown”. Keep as adept.
3. Move Cleansing Wave to adept.
4. New grandmaster trait: “chilled lasts 50% longer, refresh water attunement when striking a chilled target. 10 second cooldown.” (alternatively, deal 10-20% bonus damage to chilled targets)
5. New master trait: “cast Cleansing Wave (dagger 5) when cc’d. 20 second cooldown.”

Arcane:
1. Remove Lingering Attunements, replace with: “refresh all attunement cooldowns at 50% HP. 45 second cooldown.”
2. Renewing Stamina moved to Fire.
3. Move Evasive Arcana to adept, rewrite as: “create an Arcane Wave (not blast, about half the damage) at the end of your dodge roll.” (note, I don’t think a cooldown is necessary)
4. New grandmaster trait: “based on attunement, arcane skills buff allies based on attunement (240 AoE). Fire: remove condition, Air: +10% damage for 3 seconds, Water: 1k or so heal, Earth: protection for 3 seconds. 10 second cooldown per attunement.”
5. Merge Arcane Retribution and Final Shielding. Keep at adept. Cooldowns are independent.
6. Rewrite Arcane Energy as: “using a signet refreshes that attunement cooldown.”
7. Rewrite the earth part of Elemental Attunement to: “give Aegis for 3 seconds.” This is probably overpowered, but I want to remove the protection part from here. Perhaps something different is better.
8. New master trait: “blast finishers cause confusion for 3 seconds (3 stacks).”
9. Merge all of the weapon specialist adept traits: Blasting Staff, Vigorous Scepter, Wolfborne Dagger.
10. Move Arcane Resurrection to adept.
11. Move Arcane Lightning to adept in Arcane.
12. New master trait: “all the master minor traits are 50% (25%?) more effective.”

Basically most of these are just to spice things up. I think the biggest problem is the Arcane line because it’s basically required in any build you want to run. I think a lot of these are nerfs in the Arcane and Water line, perhaps the biggest change is that team condition clear would be significantly lower. Also the amount of protection is significantly lower. I also think the synergy between the Evasive Arcana and arcane skills in general could be very interesting, and you have a choice between offensive or defensive arcane traits!

Perhaps this opens up doors for a cool condition burning build. Or a cool chilling build! These don’t really exist (outside the burn Guardian build which doesn’t really work.)

Thanks for surviving wall of text, but this is the kind of thing I personally would like to see (whether it’s changes similar to this, but at least something that spices the game up).

Bran.7425:

I’d like to see one legitimate reason why not to include the option, besides saving it for a “we don’t have anything else ready” patch

They want unranked to be casual and standard models are tryhard.

Not saying I agree with this, but I’m pretty sure is the main reason.

Ladderboard has nothing to do with MMR which is how the matchmaking works.

Chaith.8256:

Wilco.1458:

Sigils and runes are all too powerful and is one of the main reasons I think the April patch was such a failure.

I still think double sigils on 2H is just wrong.

2 Sigils per weapon set makes a lot of sense to me. Why should dual wielding have a massive baked in advantage?

What didn’t make sense to me, and never did, was allowing same sigil-types to function together. Nobody asked for that.

Intentional or not, it seems like the 2H weapons are just more powerful than the 1H ones. It just felt weird at the time.

And I think people did ask for stacking but nobody considered the consequences (common theme we have going here).

Granted at this point, maybe warriors and engies will get hit by removing the stacking, but I’ve been playing with air on my cele ele instead of doom for kicks and it actually seems really strong. Arguably air might be better in most matchups, it’s just doom is required because all of the cele vs cele ResidentSleeper fights.

Sigils and runes are all too powerful and is one of the main reasons I think the April patch was such a failure.

I still think double sigils on 2H is just wrong.

To be honest it would make sense that the shortest queues = most balanced matches. Assuming it works like in DotA, it starts with a small search and gradually grows. So the first minute or so will search for people within X mmr, then the next minute within 2X mmr and so on. So if you have to wait long, theoretically there will have the largest mmr differential.

Bitty.1409:

For those worried about fresh air getting hit from potential D/D ele nerfs that probably won’t be the case as long as they stick to nerfing the right things. The attuned to water nerf Tarcis was talking about wouldn’t hurt us because he’s referring to changing the scale on it, Aka making it less beneficial to take healing power; the base will still be the same. Also you gotta keep in mind Cele D/D is Fresh airs hard counter.. so if anything this is would make them more viable. I would also personally love to not be pigeon holed into putting points into water, with these nerfs maybe they could raise the base HP of eles to give them other options? Half of the reason eles are forced to go into water is for the added HP along with the sustain of course. Without going into water I believe I have like 12-13k HP? That’s rediculously low for a Light Armor class.

The HP is almost irrelevant because of the amount of healing. You go into water because that’s 70% of your sustain (the remaining 30% from EA) and condition clears. You still have 15k health with a decent amount of toughness.. The only thing depending on HP (with sustain) is how fast you get bursted.

I think there’s a mixed feeling about this. I get long queues sometimes and the matches are still awful.

With the amount of players actively playing, I don’t think there is a strong correlation between queue time and goodness (for lack of better word) of match balance.

Also reducing healing scaling on shouts will help guardians be viable. Doing anything to engineer (I will argue remove or remake the class completely because I hate the design) will make anything else viable. Elementalists should have blast on water 3 removed and possibly reduced burning duration. Make those changes and something about might stacking and it’s like a whole new meta!

ITT: homers and people who don’t know what nerfing other classes means to the game as a whole.

Everything that isn’t ele, engy, warrior (and possibly thief but to a much lesser extent) is fine. The only reason everything else isn’t used is because they are outclassed, that doesn’t mean they are bad.

Please if you take away anything from anything, changes on some things will affect other things. It sounds like common sense but anyone arguing Mesmer is weak is just silly. Weaker than thief? perhaps. Weak? Hell no, a decent Mesmer will absolutely wreck face.

Anastasis.7258:

Wilco.1458:

Anastasis.7258:

Nerfing sigils are also nerfing other classes such as Nerco, Ranger, and Guardian. Which I don’t think will balance this game, instead it will make the bad classes even worse.

I think nerfing everything is a good thing. Everything is too strong right now. Nerf everything, nerf some things harder than others.

Just because those classes are outdone by ele and engy doesn’t make them bad.

Keep that in mind that nerfing a class means buffing the other class. That’s why I think we need to balance classes mechanic before balance sigils.

Yeah that’s why you do it across the board. Fix the major problems in each of the classes and fix runes/sigils. At the very least we get a few weeks of figuring out new builds and stuff which is fun.

The absolute last thing ANet should be doing is buffing anything. The last PvP patch however many weeks ago that did slight buffs to a number of things is completely unnecessary. Slick shoes being a thing now makes puppies cry.

Anastasis.7258:

Nerfing sigils are also nerfing other classes such as Nerco, Ranger, and Guardian. Which I don’t think will balance this game, instead it will make the bad classes even worse.

I think nerfing everything is a good thing. Everything is too strong right now. Nerf everything, nerf some things harder than others.

Just because those classes are outdone by ele and engy doesn’t make them bad.

Chaith.8256:

Wilco.1458:

Also @Chaith I know you get a little wet when you see an amulet with the exact 5 stats you want on your engineer, but those perfect amulets take a lot of the decision making away from the game and frankly make it too trivial.

It might appear that way, but probably would have the opposite effect. Cele Amulet is fine for Rifle Engi. There’d actually be decision making if there were other options. Cele Amulet is fine for shout Warriors, but there’d be more decisions made if non-shout Wars had good itemization. I have no clue how to even offer Ele any decision making, Celestial is too perfect. Elementalist traits need to change, badly. Offensive based hybrid Mesmers with basic toughness, that’d definitely be a decision to make over standard shatter with berserker.

The real problem with Ele are the traitlines. You either fresh air (weaker but still a possibility) or you’re forced to go 6 into water 6 into arcane. Basically D/D elementalist has two trait points they can work with, and choosing anything that’s not elemental shielding is basically incorrect. It’s a shame that the biggest argument is where you put your one point to remove more conditions.

I talk about this a lot, something like Rock Solid is a super awesome, interesting trait but it’s not possible to get to because I don’t have enough trait points to use. I think Evasive Arcana is the problem, I’d like to see some changes moving EA to adept or master (obviously reducing numbers in places, maybe removing blast finisher) which frees up some points to use elsewhere.

I agree with a lot of this and I think the whole video is a perfect analysis of what’s going on in PvP right now. However if you want to attack double on-swap (or double sigils of same type) it’s bad design to have them work diminishingly, I’d rather have them removed all together. Like pre-powercreep-patch, you can use one and that’s it.

Also air/fire is the only reason S/D thief is a thing right now, something you might have overlooked.

I hope the main ideas go through (lower stats on cele, lower swap sigils). I’d also like to see something done about boon duration too, but that’s more complicated to balance I think.

Also @Chaith I know you get a little wet when you see an amulet with the exact 5 stats you want on your engineer, but those perfect amulets take a lot of the decision making away from the game and frankly make it too trivial.

Chase.8415:

Because you were expected to have a 90% or more win rate in all of those games, where as the other players are in solo queue facing against premades and are expected to lose and end up winning.

Not really that hard to understand.

I would really argue anyone over 50% win rate that is not rank 1 shows a broken system, not the leaderboards themselves.

If you’re expected to win against the entire playerbase, should you expect to be higher on the ladderboards?

Also that last line makes no sense.

witcher.3197:

Atherakhia.4086:

Good news! We’re getting close to the end of this current 6 month patching cycle! By February we should have a balance patch available!

WTS 2 happens in March. They won’t balance in February. Don’t expect anything before April.

Actually it’s quite common to do a major balance change right before a major tournament.

Damsel Delilah.9084:

Engi is fine, celestial is not, however regardless of this 5 engis is a very bad team comp and should not win vs another premade of equal skill.

Again .. nothing to do with celestial. It’s runes and sigils that ruin everything not the amulet. Also overcharged shot. Also grenades having no counterplay. Also stowing magnet.

Backpack’s MMR is obviously too high.

coglin.1867:

So what your saying is you lost to them and you came here to cry about it?

This was the same thing everyone cried after the Longbow buff on rangers. They were all over PvP. Nothing has been buffed by way of the engineer in months. What makes them particularly strong today over 2-3 months ago?

I think it is cute when people claim teams as “tacky”, “cheese”, and my personal favorite “cancer”. As if any of those unoriginal buzz words mean anything in these situations.

I don’t think you understand how buffs work. And this is a major part to why balance in this game is so awful.

You don’t have to directly increase the number of a skill (or class) to buff it.

Seems nobody really gets that concept …

BlackBeard.2873:

Wilco.1458:

Everyone saying “oh but there’s counters” and “you can do x/y/z to beat turret engies” that’s completely besides the point. The fact the build exists is the problem in itself.

Its actually REALLY good for a game to have really simple builds, as they let new players hop in and be effective, without needing a ton of skill, yet not being an optimal strategy at all. Perhaps it could be a little bit less effective so that vets aren’t as drawn to it, but I don’t think it needs to be nerfed into oblivion.

The best news: if you don’t to learn to 1v1 a turret engie, that is fine. The best way to beat them is rotations! Either leave them and win 4v5 on the other 2 points, or bring the teamfight to them where they are 100% useless. In a teamfight, a turret engie is like a guardian that has no stability and can’t stand up to as much focus-fire.

A video for reference – Extra Credits talking about balancing for skill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

I understand how to balance videogames. The problem with this build, imo, is that it’s just completely awful to play against. I don’t want to play against fidgety AI, that’s called PvE. The fact it’s balanced or not has nothing to do with this build, it’s just lazy and poorly designed.