i know this is a niche title now
but it sure as hell didnt start that way
and im pretty sure Anet and ncsoft didnt want another one of those
remember what happened to CoX? i do….
fact is: all mmos need some bread&butter content
look how WoW is doing , after they stopped making theirs
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them there
That’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
and most of the current casual players dont support the game with any money at all
if you cant see the problem with that…
anyway, PoF will show , who was right
i doubt they will sell more than 500k
First of all, I don’t think you should make statements you can’t support. How do you know most casual players don’t suppor the game with money at all? How do you know the percentage of casuals who support the game with real money has significantly changed at all.
PoF won’t show who was right. There are a million reasons why a game can success or fail. In either case it’s unlikely we’ll know how many copies sold. Anything we come up with is guess work.
It’s okay to have an opinion. Make stating unprovable stuff as fact is not the way to go about backing it up.
this forum is mostly about opinions, since that is the only way the devs can get feedback
facts? do you want me to prove , that most people wont pay for something, that they can get for FREE?
lets try with the fact, that the devs have said the expansion was “underperforming”
lets try with the fact, that the core game sold 5 times better for twice as long
lets try with the fact , that if HoT was a success, you would need at least 100.000 players in maguma every day, every hour
yea such a waste of 1-2 hours tops to unlock elite specs, you do know that they have hero point trains going on eu and I think na aswell
trains make the worst players in any mmos, even i know that
hell , some of the times i didnt even see the mob, before it was dead…but i still got the points
i could prolly join a train, and get the unlock without doing any damage at all
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them there
That’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
and most of the current casual players dont support the game with any money at all
if you cant see the problem with that…
anyway, PoF will show , who was right
i doubt they will sell more than 500k
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them there
I stated only that I disagreed with your comment that the content was universally easy on every class. For you perhaps, it has been easy for me as well. But there are others who struggle, even with attempts to adapt via build, etc.
This thread is using hyperbole and exaggeration to state how hard Heart of Thorns is. These kinds of comments help nobody, not the player making them, not the developers, not anyone else. When you are struggling in a story instance, in a group event, in a dungeon, against a specific mob, whatever, it’s good to state what build you are using and what specifically you are having trouble with. Then you’ll get targeted advice on how to beat said content that is giving you trouble.
But we don’t see any of that in these types of threads. Only a blanket “I hate heart of thorns, it’s too hard”. It’s not constructive and it’s not helpful.
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
if Anet wont sell those pixels, we just move to another game
my suggestion: make a OP weapon for those, who want to use it
that would open up lots of unused content, and allow you to stop nerfing
cramming hardcores and casuals into the same zones obviously doesnt work
I wouldn’t call the sales of HoT “really really low”, do you have something to back that up? Someone officially claiming that the game indeed sold really low? Because the lack of revenue after the release of HoT can also be attributed to the core game going free to play and not being good enough to increase the sales of the expansion. And that conversion of free players into paid customers was indeed confirmed as one of the causes for the reduction in revenue, while the sales of HoT weren’t.
In the earnings report for Q4/2015, NCSoft reports that GW2 made about $13.5M more in the HoT debut quarter than in other recent quarters, and that “other sales” (i.e., gem store) were “stable.” At the minimum $50 price, that’s 270,000 sales. Of course, for retail sales, ANet only got wholesale money. However, they also sold $75 and $100 packages. At a guess, they sold 300,000 copies, possibly more, in the release quarter.
Q1/2016 sales were also higher than the quarters leading into HoT. However, no statement was made as to the stability of gem sales. It seems likely that there were quite a few HoT copies sold, but nowhere near as many as Q4/2015 unless gem sales tanked. Doubtless, ANet sold more HoT copies since Q1/2016, but there are no indications of how many as they only report revenue, not where it comes from.
It seems possible they sold around 500,000 copies all told, but who knows? I tend to think that 600K is too high, and that 400K is too low, but I could be off at either end. Bottom line, though? We don’t really know.
I’ll leave it to someone else to decide if what we do know represents low sales or not.
core GW2 sold roughly 1 mio copies a year, you cant get those numbers with a hardcore game
they had the goose, that lays golden eggs
first they starved it for 4 years
and then they traded it for one of those fugly bald cats
i havent seen such a waste of potential since SWTOR
I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”
Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.
Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.
any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy
I don’t believe that HOT is niche content. It may not be universally liked content, but that was true of core Tyria as well. Plenty of people expressed boredom while leveling in core Tyria. Not everyone had the same experience.
HoT provides an experience that is not the same as core Tyria, but that doesn’t make it niche content. I believe more people play HoT than most who don’t like it believe. Certainly plenty of people in my casual guild play hot relatively regularly.
Raids, however, I do believe are niche content.
if it isnt universally liked, then it IS niche content, how else would you define
niche?
lets look at the merits of HoT:
first they fired the director
then they nerfed it
now they have just abandoned it, to work on the next expansion
does that look like a success to you?
Leveling in core Tyria wasn’t universally liked. By your definition Core Tyria is niche content.
They didn’t fire the director. He left for a job with Amazon. Had they fired him, after they announced he was leaving they wouldn’t have allowed him to participate in an AMA. Colin left of his own accord. Saying he was fired is simply not true.
They didn’t particularly nerf HOT, except for the TD meta. They added some veteran events, and thinned out a couple of paths.
They haven’t abandoned HoT, they’ve moved onto the living story. They did make major changes to the last story episode of HOT only recently, and they’ve added current events in HOT, and even a new raid wing. Not sure how you can say HOT was abandoned.
The fact is, there are still plenty of people playing HoT. Anyone who doesn’t play HOT has no real idea how many people are still playing. Even off times, there are people there doing event chains, and if you use a timer site and LFG, there are people doing the metas as well, at all hours of the day and night.
Saying something is abandoned doesn’t actually make it abandoned.
if it can sell a mio copies a year, then it isnt niche
very few games could do that, even fewer mmos
tyria got people in, HoT scared them away
Guys look at the bright side at least now they know what they shouldn’t do in next xpacs and better sooner than later
Actually this is a good point, but I’m also worried that Anet will throw about the baby with the bathwater. There are some people who love HoT and there are things in HoT that will probably never be repeated, in spite of that.
“some” people are not enough for big budget projects
for those, you need MANY people
and know we know, why nobody tried something like this before
Anet should hire a market researcher (or get a better one)
I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”
Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.
Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.
My comment was about people putting words in others’ mouths. But I’ll bite – it’s a universal adage that you can’t please all of the people all of the time. So: “of course.”
But I disagree that adding different content to a game is ultimately good. GW2 started as a game that encouraged exploring, play your own way, and was fairly easy ramping up to difficult in Orr / Southsun (talking about my standards). Truly challenging content was relegated to Dungeons (talking about the past), Fractals, and some Story boss fights. (Sad that I have to put disclaimers that this is my POV in my own post. And people will probably still argue with it.)
The player base for GW2 obviously enjoyed the game or they would not have played it from 9/2012 to 10/2015. When a new expansion was announced, I assumed it would be on the same level as what was already proved a success and enjoyed by the players. Instead I got platforming, 3D maps that I could not find my way around, and packed with deadly mobs with cc (remember, this is my POV). I had been introduced to a more 3D map with Drytop and I didn’t even like that. HoT is an order of magnitude worse. I was stunned that Anet created an entire expansion that was so completely different from the core game. And very disappointed that there wasn’t more of what I already was enjoying.
There is also an old adage: “jack of all trades, master of none”. As you said, you can’t please all of the people. In trying to appeal to everyone, GW2 doesn’t have enough content that any particular player base enjoys. Why would players that are looking for a challenging MMO come to GW2 which was comparatively easy for 3 years? On the other hand, GW2 had a good player base which enjoyed what it already was doing. But has now provided those players with no expansion to date that they enjoy.
At this point, I only go back to HoT for a daily or because I need something for a collection. I did a Tarir meta last night that actually failed the first try (3 wings were slow while one burned blindly away) – something I had never seen before. I actually left Tarir at that point because I didn’t know there was a recovery from that. Luckily there were a couple of vets who knew what to do and we eventually succeeded (at the last possible second). I see people in Map chat begging for help with various HP. In that same map there was only 1 person attempting to do the pylons for one of the directions. Etc. Apparently there aren’t enough people who actually enjoy the HoT maps to keep them populated on a regular basis. Wasted content – so no, I don’t think it was good for Anet to add this different content.
i still believe, that if they had continued to make more casual zones, they could have
dethroned WoW
tyria was one of the best gaming experiences in my 13+ years in mmos
too bad that it had to end so soon
I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”
Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.
Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.
any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy
I don’t believe that HOT is niche content. It may not be universally liked content, but that was true of core Tyria as well. Plenty of people expressed boredom while leveling in core Tyria. Not everyone had the same experience.
HoT provides an experience that is not the same as core Tyria, but that doesn’t make it niche content. I believe more people play HoT than most who don’t like it believe. Certainly plenty of people in my casual guild play hot relatively regularly.
Raids, however, I do believe are niche content.
if it isnt universally liked, then it IS niche content, how else would you define
niche?
lets look at the merits of HoT:
first they fired the director
then they nerfed it
now they have just abandoned it, to work on the next expansion
does that look like a success to you?
I think its funny how so many people put words in others’ mouths. I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying “I can’t play in HoT.” What I do see is people saying “I don’t like it.”
Now here’s an interesting thought: you literally can’t create content that everyone would like. People are different and so are their tastes. Try to appease one and you’ll upset another.
Creating different content aimed at different players is ultimately good for the game – it expands its potential player base.
any mmo needs bread and butter content to keep the wheels turning
if they spend all the resources on niche content, there will only be niche players
left to pay the bills
i still miss tyria…and i still blame mordy
why did we have champ trains running around and killing bosses in every zone?
Champ trains were there for people without skill and ability to get rewards by pressing 1 on their keyboard, there was no reason to form a champ train in order to kill the champions, they were perfectly doable with 2 or 3 people, and some even solo.
so it was only a challenge for those, who didnt want it? makes perfect sense…lol
i know where this is going, i have seen it in other games before.
SWTOR , DCUO, wildstar…all big games that lost so much momentum, because they failed to connect with the casual crowd
1. casual players prefer character and account progression over player progression
2.we will play the content we like, and leave, BUT IF IT IS GOOD ENOUGH , WE WILL RETURN LATER FOR MORE
3. dont give me that “NCsoft is for gamers”, they blew that policy, when they started selling millions of boxes
SW:TOR is a good example of how not to appeal to casuals. The game has made a number of changes over the years that Bioware specifically stated where to make the game more casual friendly, yet the game has been consistently declining since it’s launch.
SW:TOR made the mistake of assuming that just making everything easier was how you attract casuals. Whether a game is casual friendly or not is determined by accessibility not difficulty.
if they had launched with the current difficulty, they would had kept a much larger part of the initial wave of players
their failure has several reasons..too much emphasis on story, very poor space part,
poor immersion etc
but they tanked so fast, that they had almost no time to react
i played at launch, and i gave them the same warnings, as i give you
im actually playing a bit of it now, they have nerfed it down to WoW level
the stories are clearly the best part…didnt save them
no matter where i go there, im always on a MAP…never in a WORLD
I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.
Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.
Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.
I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.
If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.
When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.
the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it
So the new definition of casual is that it’s someone who cannot solo HoT? Gotcha.
youre welcome , next time just use a dictionary instead
semantics is one thing, but it is hard to fight reality in the long term, yes?
and reality only points in one direction, despite your attempts to muddy the waters
My post was actually sarcastic. Just because someone can solo HoT doesn’t mean that they’re casual. You can argue it’s all semantics but you’re missing the term in a way to defend your argument that there’s something inherently wrong with the HoT maps as they’re not solo friendly.
HoT has the convenience of a korean F2P grinder coupled with the obscurity of bigfoot
compared to the rest of tyria, it was almost like a new game
many of us didnt want a new game..we just wanted more like queensdale a good mmo has a little of everything, but they need a ton of players to pay for it all
more players=more money= more content
that is the simple formula for WoWs success
and dont tell me to get back to WoW, after thousands of hours im simply burned out on that
Core Tyria had really no form of challenge as the enemies had pretty much no mechanics. HoT added this so by your statement this makes GW2 a good MMO. It has a little bit of everything. Something for those that you deem casual players and something for those that you seem hardcore players.
why did we have champ trains running around and killing bosses in every zone? did they zerg up for nothing?and the marionette thing wasnt challenging?it killed me plenty of times, EVEN WHEN I WASNT DOING IT.
i know where this is going, i have seen it in other games before.
SWTOR , DCUO, wildstar…all big games that lost so much momentum, because they failed to connect with the casual crowd
1. casual players prefer character and account progression over player progression
2.we will play the content we like, and leave, BUT IF IT IS GOOD ENOUGH , WE WILL RETURN LATER FOR MORE
3. dont give me that “NCsoft is for gamers”, they blew that policy, when they started selling millions of boxes
I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.
Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.
Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.
I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.
If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.
When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.
the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it
So the new definition of casual is that it’s someone who cannot solo HoT? Gotcha.
youre welcome , next time just use a dictionary instead
semantics is one thing, but it is hard to fight reality in the long term, yes?
and reality only points in one direction, despite your attempts to muddy the waters
My post was actually sarcastic. Just because someone can solo HoT doesn’t mean that they’re casual. You can argue it’s all semantics but you’re missing the term in a way to defend your argument that there’s something inherently wrong with the HoT maps as they’re not solo friendly.
HoT has the convenience of a korean F2P grinder coupled with the obscurity of bigfoot
compared to the rest of tyria, it was almost like a new game
many of us didnt want a new game..we just wanted more like queensdale
a good mmo has a little of everything, but they need a ton of players to pay for it all
more players=more money= more content
that is the simple formula for WoWs success
and dont tell me to get back to WoW, after thousands of hours im simply burned out on that
I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.
Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.
Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.
I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.
If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.
When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.
the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it
They put in a new level cap, they’ll have a war on their hands. You think that’ll save the game? I"m guessing you haven’t seen the popular reaction to that.
You have no real evidence why HOT didn’t do as well as expected, except your own perception of it’s difficulty.
There were other issues besides difficulty that could have weighed in a lot more, including launch problems with character slots, the way timers and LFG work and the lack of tutorial for using them, and mostly the PR and word of mouth by angry people who didn’t like the grind. No one can say definitively there would be more people if HOT were easier.
newsflash, they already raised the level cap once, and no wars erupted over that
the first things they did after HoT launch was :
1. fire the boss
2. nerf it
does that sound like a successful launch to you?
youre right, no one can say it definitively , but all the clues point in that direction
you only have the same handful of hardcores to back you up
How long have you been playing this game? The level cap has been level 80 since launch in 2012. It’s still level 80 today with no hints of ever changing.
wrong, it was 60 at launch
80 came around SW/DT AFAIR
i stand corrected, maybe it was because there was no 80 zones before that?
anyway, when character progression stops, players will start looking for other games,
so they need to reopen the levelling experience
I don’t think it’s fair to say that a game can’t evolve to the point where old builds won’t work as well. I think it is fair for new zones to present new challenges, even as they present new opportunities.
Exactly. Otherwise the game will get stale and boring. Then there are two types of players, those who will change their playstyle and/or build and adapt to the new challenge and those who won’t and complain that it is difficult. Change the player, not the content.
It would also help immensely if anyone who is having trouble with the expansion actually took the time to say with what. If you are having trouble in a specific area or against specific mobs, there are many ways someone can help out. A vague “the expansion is too hard” offers no basis for a discussion at all, other than the inevitable response of “no it’s not”.
because there really is no discussion needed, other than “i dont like it”
i dont like cheese(except melted), i have tried enough of them, to know that
telling me try another sort wont change that
or do you really want to tell another customer, what they should like?
you like HoT, i like Queensdale, there is no way we both can be happy on the same map
I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.
Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.
Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.
I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.
If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.
When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.
the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it
They put in a new level cap, they’ll have a war on their hands. You think that’ll save the game? I"m guessing you haven’t seen the popular reaction to that.
You have no real evidence why HOT didn’t do as well as expected, except your own perception of it’s difficulty.
There were other issues besides difficulty that could have weighed in a lot more, including launch problems with character slots, the way timers and LFG work and the lack of tutorial for using them, and mostly the PR and word of mouth by angry people who didn’t like the grind. No one can say definitively there would be more people if HOT were easier.
newsflash, they already raised the level cap once, and no wars erupted over that
the first things they did after HoT launch was :
1. fire the boss
2. nerf it
does that sound like a successful launch to you?
youre right, no one can say it definitively , but all the clues point in that direction
you only have the same handful of hardcores to back you up
I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.
Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.
Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.
I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.
If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.
When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.
the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it
Have been saying things along this line since the new player experience was put into the game and literally made the core game a joke.
It was already a joke. The core game was blanket nerfed in the original beta, basically halving everything. Enemy damage was originally a lot like HoT, even a little higher in some cases with dodge or die special attacks.
Most players simply do not want a challenge and attempting to force change will only come at a great loss, as they’ll simply go somewhere else. Look at any other MMO and solo content is usually a joke. ArenaNet has always been for the gamers however, rather than the majority. If they have no plans to continue supporting that audience, they really should revert the core game, simply to not mislead people early on.
Oh, i know that the game was nerfed during the beta because People were screaming about the oh so high difficulty.
But the new player experience turned the game into an even greater joke for me.
HoT is what Lvl 80 content should be..
And i’m not saying the entire Level curve should be like that but let’s be honest, when you Level your character, gain your first Utility Slot and gain a skill that you will most likely ignore because it’s a condi counter and most low level mobs had their conditions removed… yeah..
Events should scale better, Veterans should have better builds than normal enemies, Elites should have better builds than Veterans (not just more HP) and, let’s say for example, every 10 or so Levels the Areas should add something for you to learn, CC, Conditions, Breakbars and so forth.
If you had all that during leveling not only would you feel more accomplished in the higher areas, given a decent rework, it would also make lvl 80 characters scaled down less of a powerhouse in the lower areas because they had to look out too.
Challenge can be done gradually so that it doesn’t feel too hard but just that amount that would make you learn something.
Know enough people who quit the game because the easy mode that is core tyria is too boring for them.
While I do agree to what you’re saying wholeheartedly, I don’t see this happen ever. It would be win or lose for ANet. Increase the difficulty gradually, depending on level/zone and most people will start crying that it’s too hard. Make dodge-or-die attacks (although I’m in for this as it makes the game more dynamic and finally gives some important use to dodges apart from negating damage and looking kitten) and they will cry because of that. Take a look at Dark Souls: Everbody is crying because it is so hard, yet it has a die-hard (heh) fan community. Granted, those are mostly crazed masochists, but at least they stick to their game. Because it used to be like that from the start. In the case of GW2, only die-hard fans who get fun out of HoT would stick to the game while most new gamers would perhaps drop it rather quickly.
Again, I do agree on your opinion, but I don’t see it happen. When I started this game, I couldn’t get enough of leveling. Right now, I’m bored of core Tyria (if it wasn’t for its beauty and places and dialogues and lore, I’d likely avoid it completely for some time) and can’t get enough of Tangled Depths (which I did truly despise on my first try). Irony.
no, they didnt “stick to their game”, they came here, to a casual mmo , and demanded end game content
Anet delivered, and as a consequence, the majority of paying players left the game
have fun keeping this multimillion $$ game afloat without the support of the casual crowd
you will have to buy a LOT of gems
I certainly hope Anet will get away from this vertical, overrun with massive trash mobs map in the next expansion.
Ever since Dry Top, GW2 has been progressing toward being a platformer. Since Anet has not introduced any open world PvE content since Dry Top that WAS NOT platform-oriented, I hold little hope that the game will ever get any better in that respect. Someone in charge or toward the top in the GW2 team thinks platforming is the way to go. It is unfortunate because this is very niche. As the game gets old and starts losing population it will not be appealing to as many people. This will make it die more quickly.
Are you really saying the Silverwastes is platforming?
not only that, it is platforming on a timer too
the very first mission there took me quite some time and effort, because i really suck at platforming
1: miss those jumps, and you cant progress
2: they even change your skills for that platforming session
i know, not all of the zone is platforming, BUT THE WHOLE ZONE IS LOCKED BEHIND A JUMPING PUZZLE
I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)
It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.
~EW
Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.
I find it depressing that people think that the open world should be free of challenge, and that challenge should only exist in the instanced content the game offers. The open world should have been GW2’s entire focus.
think of it as public roads vs race tracks
the ordinary taxpayers will only pay for the part, that they actually use
and, they wont let you drive full speed on the roads either
you have a higher skillset, and special needs?
you find a special place, and pay for it yourself
any mmo is like a public road, they need(want) as many payers, as they can get
the majority of mmo players just want to play click-the-mob in a beautiful world
this is , what made tyria so great, and is also what made hot fall so flat
No, imho, HOT has not ruined the game.
Sure, there were a few issues, but that is to be expected for any expansion.
If anything, I believe it has made the game stronger, by requiring players to play more challenging and difficult content.
I believe it has made me a better player.
To me it seems to be a pretty weak argument to say, “I hate HOT, so I will close up my computer and never play again… but I love the core game.”
If you love the core game, you would play it.
Gliding is the single best thing about it all, to heck with mounts, we got gliders.
I look forward to the next step, next progression, next evolution of the game.
we had over 3 years with no new content
how many other games have you played for over 3 years?
core Tyria IS solid, if it wasnt, none of us would be here
HoTs performance speaks for itself
Ruining of course not. But they made mistakes and they certainly didn’t made it accessible to a broader playerbase. I think that’s why we don’t see anything new as they concentrate already on new expansion which will be more accessible and have more content (hopes).
okay, but who will buy that new expansion?
they will have a hard time selling it to other, than HOT fans
if they make it casual, they will kitten off the paying customers again
if they make it hardcore they will narrow the player margin even more
they have painted themselves in a corner there
They’ll include the original game and HOT with the new expansion and advertise only the new features of the expansion. Also they’ll sell it for like 40-50$/€.
I didn’t say make it more casual – rather more accessible. Make the open world mobs hit less hard and less make them less annoying.
I tell you this as a defender of non-casual gaming who always defends anet for their decision. But let’s face it: if there are no customers there will be no further development. I’d rather have easier mobs (in the open world) than no expansion at all.
heh, we might not have skills or patience, but our combined economic power is
the very foundation of this genre
without a ton of dirty casuals to pay the bills, any mmo will go downhill
Anet should have learned that by now
People have said this game is dying since two months after launch. Truth? Not even REMOTELY close.
Last quarter, this game made 25 million US dollars or so. That’s over 8 million a month. Hardly a dying game.
HoT sales were less than expected. They weren’t tragic. The game isn’t going out of business.
Naturally Anet wants to keep even more people playing, but the truth is, there are plenty of casuals playing hot right now and enjoying it. I have a guild full of casuals many of whom are enjoying HoT. A couple of them are in their 60s.
This whole a casual can’t do hot is just wrong.
1: GW 2 wont last forever, so the game IS dying, just as everything else is
2: true, many casuals prolly could do it, if we really HAD to.
but, we wont, because it is not fun(for us)
3: lets just hope, that your casual guild is big enough to carry the whole game then.
Ruining of course not. But they made mistakes and they certainly didn’t made it accessible to a broader playerbase. I think that’s why we don’t see anything new as they concentrate already on new expansion which will be more accessible and have more content (hopes).
okay, but who will buy that new expansion?
they will have a hard time selling it to other, than HOT fans
if they make it casual, they will kitten off the paying customers again
if they make it hardcore they will narrow the player margin even more
they have painted themselves in a corner there
They’ll include the original game and HOT with the new expansion and advertise only the new features of the expansion. Also they’ll sell it for like 40-50$/€.
I didn’t say make it more casual – rather more accessible. Make the open world mobs hit less hard and less make them less annoying.
I tell you this as a defender of non-casual gaming who always defends anet for their decision. But let’s face it: if there are no customers there will be no further development. I’d rather have easier mobs (in the open world) than no expansion at all.
heh, we might not have skills or patience, but our combined economic power is
the very foundation of this genre
without a ton of dirty casuals to pay the bills, any mmo will go downhill
Anet should have learned that by now
Ruining of course not. But they made mistakes and they certainly didn’t made it accessible to a broader playerbase. I think that’s why we don’t see anything new as they concentrate already on new expansion which will be more accessible and have more content (hopes).
okay, but who will buy that new expansion?
they will have a hard time selling it to other, than HOT fans
if they make it casual, they will kitten off the paying customers again
if they make it hardcore they will narrow the player margin even more
they have painted themselves in a corner there
Well, in my humble opinion, it didn’t help the game.
Added too little content and more stagnation afterwards.
We are back to the main problem of GW2, it is just not going anywhere.
“horisontal progression”..it just doesnt work for many casuals
level scaling didnt help in the long term either
they can still save it, but they have to change direction
HoT has done nothing but make the game much, much better in every way.
The only thing to really suffer is PVP, but it’s still really good and fun(imo).
hot managed to shrink and divide one of the nicest communities in the history of mmos
i get, that you like it , but it was really bad for this game
they basically took raid content, and used it in the “open world”
they have already nerfed it once, but its still raid content
and the maps..they look awesome, but playing them feels like a clinch with a horny vampire
no fun..no more money
no, but it drove away a good portion of the veteran players, and replaced them with F2Pers
so, they will have a community , that is even more divided , when the next xpac is
released
it was their choice, and this was the consequence
That’s easily solved though as we already stated. you can do events at your leisure as well, just do them less often. I mean, if you do an Event once every few months, do they really get that stale? No more so than repeating a heart every few months if you roll a new character.
It’s not that people aren’t accepting of opinions here. It’s the idea that somehow, the lack of hearts in HoT is a problem related to soloable/appealing content for people that prefer them even though the technical difference between hearts and events is so trivial, it’s hard to believe such a claim to be honest.
technical? sure
but there is A HUGE difference in the way, that they play
hint: one of them lets me play on my own terms, the other one doesnt
if they really WERE the same, as you claim, why would you want anything else , but hearts?
‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’
[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]
if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same
No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….
(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)
And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.
well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that
Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.
If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.
My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.
it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment
Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.
Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.
Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.
If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.
you hate 95% of this game, but still claim, that i was in the wrong place?
good luck with that..youre gonna need it
yep , i drop most mmos way before end game..or rather end grind
i dont wanna dig through a ton of unwanted pixels, just to get the few, that i actually want
There is some interesting truth … You drop most MMO’s, yet you’re complaining about how this one works? Obviously you shouldn’t be playing them … or imposing your ideas of how they should work on the regulars if you admittedly aren’t someone that enjoys them in the first place. Not sure why anyone should take anything you say seriously if you can’t even hold on long enough to experience most of what MMO’s offer.
when a game stops being fun, i stop playing it
core tyria was , for the most parts, a very enjoyable experience
if they had more of that they would have kept me as a paying customer
i dont have to eat the entire meal, to figure out, if i like the taste
if the first bite is awful, who would stay and finish all? only a starving, or very cheap person would do that
it seems to me, that most of those, who like hot, dont like core tyria
why did you slug through gameplay, that you hate?
according to you, they didnt have any challenging end game, so what was the point?
I never said I didn’t like core Tyria. I only said I was looking for something more and different. No matter how much I like steak, eventually I’m going to want some seafood or some chicken. Something different. And not just something with a different skin.
Core Tyria was a great appetizer, but for many people, it wasn’t a meal. It lacked depth. HoT provides the rest of the meal.
Not such a great analogy after all really.
“hearts are the most boring, mind numbing content in an mmo”
your own words, that doesnt like " a great appetizer" to me
if i dont like the levelling content, i will dump the game in 5 mins flat
but thats just me, i only play games, that i actually like
‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’
[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]
if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same
No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….
(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)
And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.
well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that
Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.
If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.
My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.
it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment
Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.
Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.
Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.
If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.
you hate 95% of this game, but still claim, that i was in the wrong place?
good luck with that..youre gonna need it
yep , i drop most mmos way before end game..or rather end grind
i dont wanna dig through a ton of unwanted pixels, just to get the few, that i actually want
There is some interesting truth … You drop most MMO’s, yet you’re complaining about how this one works? Obviously you shouldn’t be playing them … or imposing your ideas of how they should work on the regulars if you admittedly aren’t someone that enjoys them in the first place. Not sure why anyone should take anything you say seriously if you can’t even hold on long enough to experience most of what MMO’s offer.
when a game stops being fun, i stop playing it
core tyria was , for the most parts, a very enjoyable experience
if they had more of that they would have kept me as a paying customer
i dont have to eat the entire meal, to figure out, if i like the taste
if the first bite is awful, who would stay and finish all? only a starving, or very cheap person would do that
it seems to me, that most of those, who like hot, dont like core tyria
why did you slug through gameplay, that you hate?
according to you, they didnt have any challenging end game, so what was the point?
‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’
[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]
if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same
No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….
(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)
And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.
well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that
Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.
If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.
My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.
it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment
Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.
Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.
Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.
If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.
you hate 95% of this game, but still claim, that i was in the wrong place?
good luck with that..youre gonna need it
yep , i drop most mmos way before end game..or rather end grind
i dont wanna dig through a ton of unwanted pixels, just to get the few, that i actually want
I don’t hate anything in this game. I don’t enjoy parts of the game. However, I do enjoy dungeons on occasion. I do enjoy fractals on occasion. I do enjoy WvW on occassion. So what don’t I like? The PvP season and Raids? lol
I think you need to learn some percentages, mate. Because I like probably 80% of the game from my vantage point.
I don’t think MMOs are for you at all. And most of them aren’t for me either. This one, fortunately is.
clearly not for me
subbed to wow for over 5 years , all expansions , 100s of characters( yes i just delete them)
2 lifetime subs in STO
currently subbed, and raiding in dcuo
ive been playing mmos since 2006 , but i agree , that most of them Arent for me
no big deal , most of them Are niche products anyway
this one wasnt
‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’
[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]
if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same
No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….
(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)
And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.
well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that
Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.
If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.
My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.
it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment
Anet even said before launch, hearts were never meant to be main content. They didn’t even exist till the third beta. The purpose of hearts is to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawn. They had to add them, because they noticed people just running by stuff and not stopping because they didn’t have a star on their map.
Hearts, for the most part, are the most boring, mind-numbing content you can put in an MMO. Kill these guys, water these plants, collect these things. A couple of them, very few, had a bit of depth but if that’s the kind of thing you’re looking for, I’m okay with you not liking the game.
Because more hearts would only make me groan…unless they did them completely differently than the first hearts.
If hearts is your idea of content, good luck finding any MMO that appeals to you after you hit level cap.
you hate 95% of this game, but still claim, that i was in the wrong place?
good luck with that..youre gonna need it
yep , i drop most mmos way before end game..or rather end grind
i dont wanna dig through a ton of unwanted pixels, just to get the few, that i actually want
‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’
[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]
if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same
No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….
(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)
And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.
well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that
Core Tyria was awesome but the game had kitten. That is core Tyria, everywhere pretty much, was braindead easy. I mean really easy. The idea that harder content was lacking is what was provided.
If you can’t do that content, then sure, you made the right choice. But if they just added more like core Tyria they’d have wasted an opportunity to expand the game, which is what an expansion should do.
My suspicion is the next expansion will be very different.
it prolly will, but too little, too late
3 years , and they only made 2 new hearts
i could prolly do it, if i really had to
if i wanted to put in the hours of work and frustrations
id rather do that in a game, where i get some actual progress for my commitment
‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’
[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]
if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same
No but your property tax will be relative to the area you reside in….
(Read: even though you may not do anything with your neighbors they still have an impact on your daily life)
And your city isn’t the question. I’m 100% sure in a war zone that wouldn’t be the case. We’re not in our city but in enemy territory with makeshift camps. We didn’t settle or explore this area. In such cases, people do depend on each other to stay alive.
well they have have to do without me , i just uninstalled
better to stop now, before the frustration ruins the rest of the experience
core tyria was one of the best mmos ive ever played, too bad they couldnt make more of that
‘Please nerf Tequalt. Apparently I need friends to beat him, and I don’t wants friends! I wanna look cool, and beat the crap out of him with my mesmer!’
[ People still forget this is a MMO, and not singleplayer game.]
if i live in a city, do i have to shake hands with every person on the street?
this is the same
Not sure why you think they aren’t
Areas of map blocked by ‘Vines’ reliant on map meta to proceed is why.
and if its blocked by a vine, for any reason, then its not OPEN, is it?
And yet other parts of the game prior to this are blocked by things, and people didn’t say much. There’s a waypoint in the Silverwastes you can’t get to, because it’s blocked by a gate, until an event is done.
There’s a jumping puzzle in Caledon Forest blocked by an event as well.
Yes no one said that the area under the Silverwastes isn’t the open world.
There were plenty of hero points that you couldn’t get unless you could stealth in untaken temples when the game launched.
And there’s an area in Metrica you can’t explore without doing an event either.
weird, i got 100% in both metrica and caledon, so they couldnt be that hard
SW and DT are horrible zones, and i dont go there at all, after getting 100% on my main ranger
Play in Orr. The difficulty jumped when you reached that map. you also saw it in Silverwastes. There was a progression from a map like Queensdale to a map like Tangled Depths. It just wasn’t a forced, linear path.
Yeah Orr at launch was hell. It made HoT look like a walk in the park. The silverwastes was hard the first time you walked in there. Not too bad, but a nice little challenge.
and how did that work out?
they had to nerf it twice, and its still one of the most unpopular maps
You’re just trolling yourself now, Cursed Shore and Silverwastes are incredibly popular farming maps.
“FARMING maps”
there is the reason..nerf the rewards, and you would see how popular they really are
then i could easily deduct , that most people like to go to work
they dont, they just like to have some money
I love playing GW2 core. Its a masterpiece in many ways.
In HOT my typical experience is:
1) need mastery and hero points
2) find some on map i dont have yet
3) get killed on way to new spot
(Or killled when i get there)
I feel like a big chicken as i dash and run away from mobs
Only to get swarmed and eaten by a bunch of baby raptors.
What am i doing wrong? Does anybody find this fun?
Any advice would be appreciated as id like to enjoy hot.
Thanks
Gf
So you dont like progression? Im sorry but it doesnt sound like rpgs are your cup of tea, I love those aspects of the game. Im only talking about your concern masteries and exploration.
a normal RPG would give the player the tools , to play the content
earning the rights, to play the content, is simply content stretching
thats a bad thing
How do you not have the tools? He said he doesnt like the masteries and sense of unlocking therefore, that tells they dont like a sense of progression which what is an rpg, you have the lfg tool, just because you cannot solo everything doesnt mean you dont have the tools:)
Im not trying to be rude its just how this sounds to me.
of course i like progression, but in this case, the annoyance is simply too much , to get the progression
much of the map is simply unavailable, unless you have all the relevant masteries
and, you can only GET those masteries, by playing on those maps
this is bad design, and the first nerf showed us how it was received by the majority of players
later they will nerf it even more, but it wont help much
imagine the waiters at a restaurant started hiding the chairs, and then told you to
“sit down and enjoy your meal”
i pay for entertainment..not annoyance
Actually, these maps are big and most events are doable without masteries in like VB, while exploring the map and doing Events and event chains while exploring will give enough EXP to continue to the places you can’t reach. Unless you run around avoid events and enemies you should not have been able to explore the map that you can explore without masteries without getting enough masteries to get to note places. Now the tricky part is to choose what mastery you want to learn. If you wanna max out gliding before anything else then you are doing it very wrong.
and thats the problem, i really hate events, so i dont do them
like i said, i like progression, but not for any price
BTW , if players really like some content, they will do it, regardless of the reward
much of the later content is purely reward based= its BAD content
proof? try nerfing the rewards, and see how many players will stay
You hate events? Is it just me or do you just not make much sense in this thread, events are a huge part of pve, and hot was for mostly pve, do you prefer hearts to level in pve then? And how is it bad design to earn stuff from those maps? Are you not doing the story line in hot or something?
This is why I question if you like rpgs, take for example some of the elder scrolls games, you needed to explore certain areas to find items, there are plenty of rpgs out there where you have static items until you unlock the area and explore it, in fact id say more then half the rpgs out there are like this. Its fine if you dont like rpgs or prefer them a certain way but dont call it bad design just because it isnt your prefrence.
WTH? should i adjust my opinion to YOUR preferences?
“bad design” is opinion , when its from one person
when metrics show the same, its not opinion, its a FACT
single player RPGs become stale very fast to me, i did dragon age a couple of times
didnt do ES, i dont like the artstyle
No I didnt say that at all but your complaining about rpg elements when clearly this is an mmorpg, im sorry if this sounds rude but its no ones else’s fault you didnt research the game before you bought it based on your prefrences or maybe you did and it just appeared different to you from reviews or whatever you may have watched and read.
I didnt say anything about these being mine either but these prefrences are standards in rpgs that was my point. Also you said it was a bad design when in fact it isnt, it may be a bad design in your opinion but thats because you dont prefer these kind of rpg elements therefor you where not clear and simply stating its bad design.
yep, i clearly hate RPGS
played wow for roughly 5 years, since vanilla, bought and played all the expansions
i have over 20 characters in this game too
aion, FF14, STO, LOTRO , i at least tried most of the big mmos
currently im mostly raiding in DCUO
hell, i even bought, and played the division, and i really suck at shooters
and im telling you: this expansion is nowhere near the core game
it might as well be a different game
I dont think you understand what I said originally in every single one of those mmorpgs you still have to get certain gear and things before you can access certain content, that is essentially the same thing behind mastery unlocks or any real rpg element for that matter.
oh, i understand completely
do A to get B, thats how these games work
the problem here, is that A is overwhelming, and B is the opposite
its always bad for a game, when the player thinks" why the hell am i doing this?"
when progression gets too hard , or slow, most players dont research, or"git gud"
they just log on to an easier game
How is a more overwhelming in this mmo compared to those others? Thats just not true, you do know masteries are account bound right?
i know..do YOU know, what those masteries are needed for?
to unlock the "open world " of maguma jungle…that i had to pay for in the first place
this is the way of a F2P mmo, but they used it on their B2P expansion
this will bite them, when the next expansion comes out
no matter how good it is, it will sell even worse, than hot did
It’s not going to bite them. It’s called progression. Only a small percentage of the masteries are required to unlock the zones and those go pretty fast. You don’t need most of them. The most important ones, arguably are the lowest ones. The rest you can do at your leisure.
And the way of the free to play MMO isn’t to gate of content. The way of the free to play MMO is to gate of content for extra pay. This is different.
Most games make you level to get to the content, and this isn’t really that much different. That is to say, in most MMOs, you can’t access content until you go through something else. WoW is like that. Every MMO I can think of is like that.
The only difference here is that your stats don’t go up when you do it. But I don’t understand how this is different than leveling in other MMOs when expansions come out, so I have no clue why you think there’d be a backlash.
In fact, in most MMOs it’s even worse, because in most MMOs after you get to max level, you then have to start getting gear to progress, which is RNG based and limited to raids.
Well I have nothing to add, you covered everything I was trying to say, I just want people to think outside the box and realize a sense of progression is a good thing, instant gratification really isnt.
I hope the op does change his mind and enjoys it, I wish you the best op.
you said it yourself: the stats dont go up
the mobs get harder, but i dont get better
this NOT the way of a normal mmo
get better gear then..so, they made a gear check for open world content?
Play in Orr. The difficulty jumped when you reached that map. you also saw it in Silverwastes. There was a progression from a map like Queensdale to a map like Tangled Depths. It just wasn’t a forced, linear path.
Yeah Orr at launch was hell. It made HoT look like a walk in the park. The silverwastes was hard the first time you walked in there. Not too bad, but a nice little challenge.
and how did that work out?
they had to nerf it twice, and its still one of the most unpopular maps
Cc is not a hard concept to grasp, I understand it in my first mmorpg with no issues, and learned how to use it when needed, if anything this game tells you as clear as day what your skills and traits do, really how much more simple can it be?
not having the mechanic in the first place
that would be simpler AND cheaper
I love playing GW2 core. Its a masterpiece in many ways.
In HOT my typical experience is:
1) need mastery and hero points
2) find some on map i dont have yet
3) get killed on way to new spot
(Or killled when i get there)
I feel like a big chicken as i dash and run away from mobs
Only to get swarmed and eaten by a bunch of baby raptors.
What am i doing wrong? Does anybody find this fun?
Any advice would be appreciated as id like to enjoy hot.
Thanks
Gf
So you dont like progression? Im sorry but it doesnt sound like rpgs are your cup of tea, I love those aspects of the game. Im only talking about your concern masteries and exploration.
a normal RPG would give the player the tools , to play the content
earning the rights, to play the content, is simply content stretching
thats a bad thing
How do you not have the tools? He said he doesnt like the masteries and sense of unlocking therefore, that tells they dont like a sense of progression which what is an rpg, you have the lfg tool, just because you cannot solo everything doesnt mean you dont have the tools:)
Im not trying to be rude its just how this sounds to me.
of course i like progression, but in this case, the annoyance is simply too much , to get the progression
much of the map is simply unavailable, unless you have all the relevant masteries
and, you can only GET those masteries, by playing on those maps
this is bad design, and the first nerf showed us how it was received by the majority of players
later they will nerf it even more, but it wont help much
imagine the waiters at a restaurant started hiding the chairs, and then told you to
“sit down and enjoy your meal”
i pay for entertainment..not annoyance
Actually, these maps are big and most events are doable without masteries in like VB, while exploring the map and doing Events and event chains while exploring will give enough EXP to continue to the places you can’t reach. Unless you run around avoid events and enemies you should not have been able to explore the map that you can explore without masteries without getting enough masteries to get to note places. Now the tricky part is to choose what mastery you want to learn. If you wanna max out gliding before anything else then you are doing it very wrong.
and thats the problem, i really hate events, so i dont do them
like i said, i like progression, but not for any price
BTW , if players really like some content, they will do it, regardless of the reward
much of the later content is purely reward based= its BAD content
proof? try nerfing the rewards, and see how many players will stay
You hate events? Is it just me or do you just not make much sense in this thread, events are a huge part of pve, and hot was for mostly pve, do you prefer hearts to level in pve then? And how is it bad design to earn stuff from those maps? Are you not doing the story line in hot or something?
This is why I question if you like rpgs, take for example some of the elder scrolls games, you needed to explore certain areas to find items, there are plenty of rpgs out there where you have static items until you unlock the area and explore it, in fact id say more then half the rpgs out there are like this. Its fine if you dont like rpgs or prefer them a certain way but dont call it bad design just because it isnt your prefrence.
WTH? should i adjust my opinion to YOUR preferences?
“bad design” is opinion , when its from one person
when metrics show the same, its not opinion, its a FACT
single player RPGs become stale very fast to me, i did dragon age a couple of times
didnt do ES, i dont like the artstyle
No I didnt say that at all but your complaining about rpg elements when clearly this is an mmorpg, im sorry if this sounds rude but its no ones else’s fault you didnt research the game before you bought it based on your prefrences or maybe you did and it just appeared different to you from reviews or whatever you may have watched and read.
I didnt say anything about these being mine either but these prefrences are standards in rpgs that was my point. Also you said it was a bad design when in fact it isnt, it may be a bad design in your opinion but thats because you dont prefer these kind of rpg elements therefor you where not clear and simply stating its bad design.
yep, i clearly hate RPGS
played wow for roughly 5 years, since vanilla, bought and played all the expansions
i have over 20 characters in this game too
aion, FF14, STO, LOTRO , i at least tried most of the big mmos
currently im mostly raiding in DCUO
hell, i even bought, and played the division, and i really suck at shooters
and im telling you: this expansion is nowhere near the core game
it might as well be a different game
I dont think you understand what I said originally in every single one of those mmorpgs you still have to get certain gear and things before you can access certain content, that is essentially the same thing behind mastery unlocks or any real rpg element for that matter.
oh, i understand completely
do A to get B, thats how these games work
the problem here, is that A is overwhelming, and B is the opposite
its always bad for a game, when the player thinks" why the hell am i doing this?"
when progression gets too hard , or slow, most players dont research, or"git gud"
they just log on to an easier game
How is a more overwhelming in this mmo compared to those others? Thats just not true, you do know masteries are account bound right?
i know..do YOU know, what those masteries are needed for?
to unlock the "open world " of maguma jungle…that i had to pay for in the first place
this is the way of a F2P mmo, but they used it on their B2P expansion
this will bite them, when the next expansion comes out
no matter how good it is, it will sell even worse, than hot did
I love playing GW2 core. Its a masterpiece in many ways.
In HOT my typical experience is:
1) need mastery and hero points
2) find some on map i dont have yet
3) get killed on way to new spot
(Or killled when i get there)
I feel like a big chicken as i dash and run away from mobs
Only to get swarmed and eaten by a bunch of baby raptors.
What am i doing wrong? Does anybody find this fun?
Any advice would be appreciated as id like to enjoy hot.
Thanks
Gf
So you dont like progression? Im sorry but it doesnt sound like rpgs are your cup of tea, I love those aspects of the game. Im only talking about your concern masteries and exploration.
a normal RPG would give the player the tools , to play the content
earning the rights, to play the content, is simply content stretching
thats a bad thing
How do you not have the tools? He said he doesnt like the masteries and sense of unlocking therefore, that tells they dont like a sense of progression which what is an rpg, you have the lfg tool, just because you cannot solo everything doesnt mean you dont have the tools:)
Im not trying to be rude its just how this sounds to me.
of course i like progression, but in this case, the annoyance is simply too much , to get the progression
much of the map is simply unavailable, unless you have all the relevant masteries
and, you can only GET those masteries, by playing on those maps
this is bad design, and the first nerf showed us how it was received by the majority of players
later they will nerf it even more, but it wont help much
imagine the waiters at a restaurant started hiding the chairs, and then told you to
“sit down and enjoy your meal”
i pay for entertainment..not annoyance
Actually, these maps are big and most events are doable without masteries in like VB, while exploring the map and doing Events and event chains while exploring will give enough EXP to continue to the places you can’t reach. Unless you run around avoid events and enemies you should not have been able to explore the map that you can explore without masteries without getting enough masteries to get to note places. Now the tricky part is to choose what mastery you want to learn. If you wanna max out gliding before anything else then you are doing it very wrong.
and thats the problem, i really hate events, so i dont do them
like i said, i like progression, but not for any price
BTW , if players really like some content, they will do it, regardless of the reward
much of the later content is purely reward based= its BAD content
proof? try nerfing the rewards, and see how many players will stay
You hate events? Is it just me or do you just not make much sense in this thread, events are a huge part of pve, and hot was for mostly pve, do you prefer hearts to level in pve then? And how is it bad design to earn stuff from those maps? Are you not doing the story line in hot or something?
This is why I question if you like rpgs, take for example some of the elder scrolls games, you needed to explore certain areas to find items, there are plenty of rpgs out there where you have static items until you unlock the area and explore it, in fact id say more then half the rpgs out there are like this. Its fine if you dont like rpgs or prefer them a certain way but dont call it bad design just because it isnt your prefrence.
WTH? should i adjust my opinion to YOUR preferences?
“bad design” is opinion , when its from one person
when metrics show the same, its not opinion, its a FACT
single player RPGs become stale very fast to me, i did dragon age a couple of times
didnt do ES, i dont like the artstyle
No I didnt say that at all but your complaining about rpg elements when clearly this is an mmorpg, im sorry if this sounds rude but its no ones else’s fault you didnt research the game before you bought it based on your prefrences or maybe you did and it just appeared different to you from reviews or whatever you may have watched and read.
I didnt say anything about these being mine either but these prefrences are standards in rpgs that was my point. Also you said it was a bad design when in fact it isnt, it may be a bad design in your opinion but thats because you dont prefer these kind of rpg elements therefor you where not clear and simply stating its bad design.
yep, i clearly hate RPGS
played wow for roughly 5 years, since vanilla, bought and played all the expansions
i have over 20 characters in this game too
aion, FF14, STO, LOTRO , i at least tried most of the big mmos
currently im mostly raiding in DCUO
hell, i even bought, and played the division, and i really suck at shooters
and im telling you: this expansion is nowhere near the core game
it might as well be a different game
I dont think you understand what I said originally in every single one of those mmorpgs you still have to get certain gear and things before you can access certain content, that is essentially the same thing behind mastery unlocks or any real rpg element for that matter.
oh, i understand completely
do A to get B, thats how these games work
the problem here, is that A is overwhelming, and B is the opposite
its always bad for a game, when the player thinks" why the hell am i doing this?"
when progression gets too hard , or slow, most players dont research, or"git gud"
they just log on to an easier game
