Disclaimer This is just a discussion on my view on conditions and their state in PVP only, it’s not meant to be gospel it’s just my opinion
So I personally prefer damage over time builds (DOT) I remember a time where condition damage behaved this way. In fact I found it awesome because it really pressured people to balance their condi clears and heals wisely Or watch their hp melt away. But that’s not the case anymore. Conditions at this point can sometimes burst harder than dps builds.
Personally I don’t like this as conditions linger (as they’re meant to) and hard bursts comparable to dps really don’t give you enough time to react usually if you realize a second too late you’re dead.
Can we make a return to a more DOT style condi application? At least in pvp bc we don’t have the ho like a raid boss does.
P.S. I’m not saying nerd Condis to oblivion. I’m just saying cull them a bit because right now there’s almost no point in running dps
I don’t understand this. Why are Thiefs so bad for a competitive PvP team?
If you have 5 Dragonhunters, you will win. If you have 5 Necromancers, you will win. But if you have 2 or more thiefs, you will lose in 95% of the cases.
But why? Shouldn’t it be alarming to A-Net, that Thiefs provide such a bad team play support? Especially since they also have/want to play WvW in a zerg and PvP in a team?
To be honest two thieves shouldn’t be a death sentence to your team. You have a lot of mobility and aloooot of single target burst. I play theif and even tho I swap or have the other theif swap when I see a second on the team there are times where I choose not to and just communicate a game plan to the other theif. Two thieves working together can be super dangerous, by not allowing caps to be held long with their ability to baccap and just blowing people up by focusing them down together and really offsetting the balance in a team fight in your favor. My reccomendation to you would be if you have two thrive communicate to them to work together and you should win.
It seems like you do not understand what the ranking system is.
First of all, your skill rating has nothing to do with your W/L ratio.
Second of all, the ranking system doesn’t stop after the result of one match. You’re right, you can get bad teammates, you can lose a match that you ‘deserved’ to win. In the end, it’s kind of like a coin toss. But, the system is not designed to give you an accurate rating after one match.
The theory is that you are matched with and against the average player around your skill rating. If you are better than the average player of your skill rating, you have a higher probability to win, and will win more than you lose, resulting in your skill rating going up.
Bad luck can happen and make you lose some games, but the more matches you play, the less luck becomes a relevant factor.
If you toss a coin 5 times, you will have a random result that doesn’t necessarily show the 50% probability. But if you toss a coin 50 times, the result will be very close to 50%.
Now, the system is not perfect, and get pretty wonky when the player population is low. But for the most part, it should be pretty accurate, especially at ratings where there is no population issue.
I can’t tell if what you said is a rule or an exception. I was placed in T2 platinum, got to 250 once but didn’t get the recognition (title and leaderboard place) due to match cap at the time (45 was it I guess). But once I hit the cap (60 matches) I needed like 2 matches to get to 250 and since that day that happened 4-5 days ago, I keep on falling and falling down on matches where some of my team mates prefer to do a decap instead of a fullcap while the whole enemy team is busy fighting mid or far/ double caps/ going 1v2 to a capped point… you name it.
I’ve been playing to my furthest skills, doing fakes, rotating to every fight I could to ensure a win, but as soon as I left or some other competent dude in my team, the whole rest just fell apart. I am okay with losing, but being bound to lose with a huge point gap many times in a row or overall is just getting bamboozled by the system.
Now I think I have more than 70 or about 80 matches played, but the curve of my rating is changing rapidly from T2 plat to T1 plat or even T3 gold which is not what should be happening to a player who knows his drill.
P.S.
At first I thought it was stupid, but more and more I keep on believing in some sort of “account luck”.
This is what I mean about the rating system. That I understand it’s designed to make more balanced matches but my beef is having no representation of my individual skill.
Am I the best player ever? No. But I understand what I need to do and play my role well yet feel that that is not represented currently.
I just feel that there should be a system in place that yes shows this player is currently playing at this level but also something that shows this player as an individual is at this level. It just adds a layer to pvp that I feel allows people to better understand where they stand with other players and as an individual and also allows other players to have some better criteria to look at when looking for teammates for tournaments
The problem is a rating system based on a overall W/L ratio alone isn’t enough. At least not to me. It STILL doesn’t accurately portray an individuals personal skill.
The system is glicko 2 based which is more than win loss ratio. It factors in how well it knows the rating of you and your opponent (deviation), and the rating difference between you and your opponent. Keep in mind that you are unlikely to get your deviation below 60. What that means is the system is 95% sure you are within 2 deviations (+/- 120) of your current rating.
Interesting.
Whatever it’s doing, it seems to work. I placed gold 1 after winning 60% of my placement matches. Then I spent the next 40 games stuck in gold 1, unable to advance but also not dropping into a lower tier.
Tonight I made some pretty significant changes to my build and suddenly I won 7 out of 10 games and came within less than 30 points of winning on two of my losses! After all of that fruitless effort, tweaking my build allowed me to break into gold 2 for the first time.
It will be interesting to see where I start to hit that ceiling again. But I expect despite the obvious mismatches the system produces, I will end up in a place where I find it difficult to advance but also not dropping back down to a lower tier. I think this is what you should expect from good matchmaking. At the rating you belong, you should expect stiff competition and a win/loss rate that keeps you more or less at that tier.
How the system does that despite mismatches is a mystery to me. But so far it appears to be working, in my opinion.
For starters congrats on making gold 2. I’ve been in gold 2 myself from the moment I got my ranking. But last night I actually dipped below it for a bit because I just couldn’t win a match and it wasn’t bc I was playing poorly it was because the players inwere playing with were making really really lousy decisions that Wild cost the match…and so my score dropped not because I failed but bc my entire team did. In a system where both the team and individual effort is shown I wouldn’t feel so bad about losing bc my stats or ranking would show I’m still a good team player. Feel me?
In other words what I’m saying is if I were to tey to get recruited by a team for a tourney they might have a prwjudce against me based on my teir yet that really is just a reflection of my team w/l and not my ability to play in a team. And that riggbthere aucks.
The system is glicko 2 based which is more than win loss ratio. It factors in how well it knows the rating of you and your opponent (deviation), and the rating difference between you and your opponent. Keep in mind that you are unlikely to get your deviation below 60. What that means is the system is 95% sure you are within 2 deviations (+/- 120) of your current rating.[/quote]
I never said the systems ability to match ppl up fairly based on their current rating was flawed I stated your rating based the actions of 4 other players contributions instead of your own is. Idm having a rating based on my team winning or losing but an individual rating would be nice as well and useful to boot.
Here’s an example a person with a good team score and a great personal score couldnlikey just be a good player who just doesn’t get good teams but still tries to contribute as a member of the teams as opposed as an individual to bolster his own score. a player with both is one who gets matched up with people of equal caliber (which would increase as it goes up) but a player with a poor team score and a high personal score is probably just someone not really caring about the team and complaining about how everyone else sucks and they’re but the reason they’re losing.
It’ll be really easy to pick people for a team (for tournaments) based on these two values and will really expand the competitive scene as people will feel more encouraged to play and compete because their personal progress doesn’t feel hindered by the ring of matchmaking.
It’s not your fail the anet devs just dont care much about pvp. just gliders, hair colors, harvest tools, and things to get you to buy gems. If anet really cared about pvp they could fix it. There are ways like going TDM that fix the competitive nature of the game. They can also make the rank system better with the calculations. But again they just don’t care.
It’s not your fault your forced to dancing around and in circles to play “pvp”. It’s anet’s fault for just making it a bland dance in and around circles gameplay. A game of pvp where a class is required like a teef and run speed, is not competitive pvp it’s just people zerging middle all game or another point.
Pvp died around season 3 when they could have started to get away from circle dancing hoedowns.
Yeah I wish they’d ad more options to pvp in terms of game types I know less populated games with more options and still have short que times.
Death matches
Official 1v1 queues
2v2 queues
Capture the flag maybe
All of these could add to the pvp experience but ur right they only seem to care about generating money bc it’s not like players haven’t been clampring for things like this since forever
The state of the game had caused me to take a short hiatus from playing. Upon returning to try out the new ranking system I was actually excited. No premade vs pugs everyone gets to deal with ring I can finally have a rating that is a testament to my skill and u derstanding of the gametype. Now by NO MEANS am I an expert pvper or at my class but I’ve played with some amazing players and pvpers who are and held my own they’ve helped me understand the game mode my role in a match and increase my overal skill with my class. I was saddened to see the game still isn’t exactly in the right place (condi which is supposed to be DOT damage can do more buster dmagae than dps wtf) but what upset me the most was what I was excited about the most the ranking system. Man it’s so frustrating because with this new everyone gets pugs system there’s really no telling what you’ll get. Even if you do your job impeccably you can lose matches on tiny margins because of mistakes other team members make and what happens your rating suffers even tho you were a huge contribution to your match.
The problem is a rating system based on a overall W/L ratio alone isn’t enough. At least not to me. It STILL doesn’t accurately portray an individuals personal skill. Even tho On own front It hs been successful most of my matches have been close that is to say the matches are more even. The satisfaction of seeing my own characters rating improve based on MY own gameplay isnt there. Even matches I win I just feel drained bc I’m correcting ppl on my team, ppl double capping running into 1 v 2s on a already capped point. Am I saying I don’t wanna ply with these people? Preferably no but hey it keeps things competitive anyone can get newbs on their team it’s rng and that’s fair but do I think my own personal rating should suffer bc of their inexperience, i think not
What do you think? Should their be a Team rating score alongside a Personal rating based on your own performance? It would definitely help in recruiting skilled pvpers for a team or a guild.
PS: I main a theif and am good at getting decaps and plus 1ing where needed. I play my role pretty well and do have room for improvement and am seeking it but I honestly do not believe my rating peflects my current level of skill.
Meh everything but moa never bothered me on mes, they’re not easy to play and if you take the time to learn how to fight them then it’s not all that hard either. Just wtf moa? It’s the most unfair skill in the game. dragons maw (I think that’s what ts called) the necro freeze elite, thieves basilisk venom, rev jade wind, ranger imobilize, all of these are game changers if you time them well you can kill someone fast but the counter play is there for you to fight u can stun break and get back in the fight you know with your own skills on the class you took so much time to learn. Moa on the other hand leaves you defenseless with the only option to run unless your opponent has -10% hp and you can down him but not all mes are that dumb. Idk with all the great things ey could’ve done moa is lazy and really I never thought belonged in the game either on mes or engi. I think Anet can come up with a equally game hanging elite to replace moa that still allows a player to make use of his class mechanics to try to defend himself….. Otherwise mes is fine
Guards are the only class that can currently instant cast traps. Everyone Q.Qs about he traps damage I actually don’t mind it what I do mind is the fact that they can just spam them mid fight. As opposed if they preset them and I ran in and got caught that’s on me but if we’re in the heat of battle and I’m winning the fight and bam instant 3-4 traps and I’m dead from full hp not bc he’s a better player but bc his traps in ally off cd and I’m right on him he wins. I’m all for a reasonable cast time on these even when I’m on my dh I feel the same. I don’t think I should be able to instacast 3 skills at once. Can you imagine an instant cast kill shot or something like it? Ppl would flip yet this has been the norm ever since DH came out and when they did nerf dh it was a lb nerf which I didn’t find necessary instead of adding a cast time to traps. Pls do this Anet. Thoughts?
I block bad players and team chat emo kids. Usually one in the same. Yes, it blocks them from your team chat, and no, I don’t care.
so dumb. i block ppl sometimes too not if theyre bad idc i think thats dumb eventually they can get decent or some can even learn the ones i block are the idiots who flood chat with useless qq about how bad ppl are while afking. either way shouldnt be blocked from teamchat tho. i just dont want ppl like that whispering me.
Mind sharing your build epoc? Your AA’s are still pretty weak, and in the video you didn’t have boons (which affect the results of scaling since sword has better coefficients and thus will take advantage of higher power values and more stacked damage-per-hit modifiers). The only thing I can think of is if you’re not built to get scaling damage to take advantage of the higher coefficients on the sword and are thus taking the penalties of lower attack speed.
The other possibility being that they didn’t buff the sword’s animation speed as much as they claimed, and the timings per attack are slightly off. I don’t often do such testing since I don’t PvE, but based on patch notes and what changed and historically the output of the AA chain on Sword, it should be doing better DPS on AA comparisons alone.
that wasnt me in that vid that was rastaman’s vid i beleive i was just replaying to his comment.
i actually run d/p staff or bow although i have been playing around with s/d staff recently which is pretty fun. I love staff (and no not for spamming 5 lol) and s/d so i thought id try something with them together currently i’m running acrobatics down-mid-up trickery mid-up-mid and daredevil mid-mid-down…..its not something i use all the time im just playing around with new stuff usually i just run s/d bow. But this has been fun i don’t get the executioner buff but i still get the 7% from swindler’s equilibrium and u can go for havoc mastery (instead of weakening strikes) for another 7% i think if u want to add to bound that can give u 24% bonus dmg. toy around if u like and tell me what u think i could use some feedback since its just me experimenting with sword again.
I like engineer, its not my main but if i ever left my main toon i would definitely main engineer. Now ive never felt engi was lacking in sustain at all in fact i think its insane how much they can have especially if you’re good it can be super difficult to kill you. Its frustrating to fight against and super fun if you’re the one behind the wheel.
My only issue is stealth gyro…My gosh when i first got my hands on that thing it was impossible to kill me. As someone who mains thief the art of stealthing and disengaging or stealthing to break target is something i’m very familiar with. Yet unlike with thief where its more of a key function to that classes survival or sustain because theyre so squishy, engi just dominates with it, and its so easy! I would feel so cheap using it (not as cheap as moa but >.> whatever anet) it really is a get out of jail free card especially with the insane amount of sustain available to the class already.
Its not like engis couldn’t already stealth. Other classes that stealth like mesmer and ranger feel no where near as bulky as an engi and thieves have been pushed so far out of stealth is super rare to see anyone run shadow arts anymore. My question is Why this addition to the class? It feels completely unnecessary. Its hard to call for it to get removed from the game as i do play engi and hate being nerfed….but i cant help but feel that it needs some kind of rework or something. I like fair fights maybe its just me….but when you’re not behind the wheel its incredibly frustrating.
can we have a moment of honesty no q.q no insults and just all admit yeah stealth gyro is well. OP….
So with the current pvp season underway i feel that its safe to say that pvp chat can be quite toxic at times . Especially when players see one thing go wrong early in the match and think its game over and berate you all game and don’t do much then block you all for being "bad’…or vise versa we’re all probably guilty. So i have a couple of question and a solution if the answer to that question is yes.
Are blocked ppl blocked from teamchat?
If yes. Then perhaps they should be blocked fro everything but team chat because yes he might be an kitten but i still want to communicate with him during a match.
nope sword glitch tho i used to be able to do that seamlessly either im out of practice or its been patched…idk why anet said that its fine and considered it an intended functionality or something like that
One of the biggest misconceptions i find with sword users is that, they think sword is supposed to be all damage like dagger main hand. They get so used to the big numbers they hinder swords ability to survive just about anything. The thief is king of not getting hit. And curing self ailments and all around debuffing and debilitating the foe. What I did in this build Is manage to keep alot of the damage and add more condition removal and defenses cuz right now i think we all can agree that a condi team of 2 reapers and burn war a condi mes and a block burn guard is terrifying. This build can tank any professions entire burst especially condi. You have just enough vitality to tank warrior GS Axe/Shield burst until u stun break.
With this build thieves can still insta gib you but they have to be 11k. Your defense against this would be obviously the many evades thief has access to. Also this build isnt the best 1v1 build as i have trouble killing sage condi warriors by myself. But this build excels in team fights. Cripple,immobilize, endless stuns, blind, and boon removal all in conjunction with who ever you main damager is will kill anyone. The damage from this thief build is still considerably high though. try it out! Give me a video like when you own with it!
i don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. sword still has its upsides it technically idk if its the highest dps AA i haven’t tested to see if staff is better but i imagine it would be. the things that S/D and S/P provide are useful but they could be better. My request isn’t for an overhaul of the weapon set just changes to 2 skills the (3) skills and yeah i guess the AA too lol. i think tat this weapon set would be amazing if these changes were made and we would see a nice variety of thieves in the game from d/d condi to d/p to p/p staff to then s/d and s/p. that’s a game world i wanna live in (lets face it i don’t think p/d will ever get love lol).
cool vid btw. now imagine being able to pistolwhip then use the evasive attack when ever you want to get a stun/interupt when u want without being rooted and then putting yourself in position to do good damage or immobilize your opponent and then unleash the attack.
Not to mention the sword AA dps still inferior to dagger (before you say its wrong, go and try with same attack power on a non-critable dummy), and less interesting for a pressure set (weakness and crip 2s VS poison 7s and 10 endurance).
Sword needs a real buff. All i ask is a smart buff not sth making the set OP or exeedingly accessible..
Agreed I’m not for my fav class being op I just wanna have fun on it and be able to play what I want and know I’m contributing to my team.
I main thief and I streaked fast into ruby then got stuck maybe it’s bc i wanted to do it all in a couple of days I’ve been thinking of taking the approach you did and slowing down so I can actually enjoy playing again
Actually i would prefer if the pip ranks would be even bound to the professions – just because someone can play an necro on ruby/diamond/legend level doesn’t mean he van do that with a thief….
This is true. I think Anet wants to go for the whole adjusting comps things tho…but truth is that’s only if you solo que most team ques have good comps already and don’t need to swap.
In my opinion thieves are in an okay spot. I have lots of fun playing D/p staff some people are playing d/d now and shortbow has always been a thing. But sadly two weapon sets that I used to love just don’t seem as good right now.
Sword dagger has seen quite a few nerfs one being sword 2’s cast time and s/d 3 being separated into two attacks. The latter just made the weaponset (in my opinion) abysmal.
Sure everyone’s like omg look at all the evades but the best thing about this skill was the unblockable boon strip. Sounds op i know but it’s not considering the amount of boons and blocks classes pump out nowadays it’s not. Engis, mesmers, revs, guards in abundance, and warriors all block and have access to lots of boons being able to get thru that and at the same time debuff your opponent was great. Especially in a class that doesn’t really give itself boons. But now u rarely can do this bc its impossible to land that first hit. I believe that one of two things can be done the first being allowing the second skill to proc even if the first is blocked ooooor just changing it back to how it used to be altogether separating them into two skills…which kind of goes nicey with the chaining skills theme that came with daredevil.
On the other hand pistol whip with Sword Pistol does great damage but is slow and clunky. I think this skill should get he S/d 3 treatment and separate the pistol whip and evading blurred frenzy attacks. This allows for a better chance or landing it and more options to use it defensively too. Like to cc someone stomping or ressing or to evade a big attack or using the stun then using sword 2 to immobilize and then the evading attack to try to secure the damage. It just gives you options that you don’t have with either set in their current form.
Please make this change it would be fun to see a lot more diversity in matches other than d/p and staff thieves everywhere. This won’t make thieves op but will def shake things up a bit and allow for more fun.
Anyone else tired of only having one choice of weapon since we’re basically forced into SB as one of them? It’s too good, you just can’t not run it if you’re trying to be competitive.
Don’t get me wrong, I love SB, it’s just getting a tad boring.
I’d personally love to run P/P Staff or maybe D/P Staff, but I feel I’m hindering team without the z axis teleport.
If I were in charge, I’d change SB #5 to something cool that does massive damage for high ini like staff 5, and to compensate the loss of the tele bring shadowstep’s CD down from 50 to like 20ish >.>
<,< pls
>.>;
I run d/p staff and do just fine I love sb too but you don’t HAVE to run it to do your job as a thief shadowsteping and dash provide more than enough mobility to get where you want to go. in short Sb doesn’t need a nerf. Cluster bomb could do burning tho if anything lol
I would love to have a dedicated team or guild to pvp with. Unfortunately like most of the community I don’t and am confined to solo queing or occasionally queing with friends. The problem with this is that now my personal rank progression is dependent on the random players that have joined a match with me. It’s frustrating when you’ve played for a while and have learned the mechanics of the game how to rotate when to get secondary objectives but the other players don’t. Worse than that is when they just plain suck and keep getting smashed and get tunnel vision and keep feeding a point kills.
I guess what in trying to say is the current system is great if you que as a team. If we win we gain rank progression of we lose we don’t or lose progression it makes sense. You’re doing it together so your progress should also be together. But what about us solo players. I’ve been in matches where I’ve had 200-250 evening occasion 300 points but didn’t win and I lose a a pip because my “team” lost. Except that’s the problem we weren’t a team and so my personal progression is now hindered by someone else’s gameplay.
This feels incredibly unrewarding especially when you’re really trying to win or get to a certain division but just simply can’t, not because you’re playing horribly but because you’re getting matched up with bad players.
I really don’t know how to fix it but there has to be some way where is solo non guild/pro league teams players can feel as rewarded when playing. Currently I’m not having any fun at all with the game and it’s not bc I’m like on an 18 game losing streak or anything its just 9/10 I do lose a match someone is doing something wrong that rare 1/10 it’s a close and fun match that was going back and forth and even tho you lose you know they earned it.
I don’t have a problem with ppl laying a bunch of traps and pulling you back I to them that’s smart gameplay my issue is he cast time u can run into a point trigger traps and dodge out really fast but if they’re off cool down a guard can insta cast them again on some points on a map this can be really bad bc to avoid them you have to completely give up point control bc now there are two sets of traps that went off simultaneously. Rangers and thieves have cast times on their traps dh’s should too it would really allow for a different dynamic instead of quick spamming them. Else wise might as well make ranger and theif traps instant as wel since they’re no where near as good it might make hem more viable.
The problem is condis in general being too easy to apply and too frequent in application.
Hallelujah someone gets it!!! I thought DoT builds were supposed to be about wel u know DoT not bursty condi damage. While I am an advocate for condi damage in the high end doing a lot of damage currently it’s just excessive. I think part of this is just how every class has way too much access to every condition I think that conditions should be class based with a few global condis and some extra ones depending on weapons. For example a Mesmer can have confusion as a unique condi with bleeding burning and the debugging condis while supplimenting these with runes or sigils such as sigil of doom sigil of bydromancy sigil of torment. A thief for example can be an expert in poison and torment and bleeds. It give each class 3 condis they can apply consistently and maintain constant pressure and take out opponents but not just one button press and have 8 condis on you like it currently is.
Eles hardcounter or render DHs useless
Scrapper hard counter and completely butcher DH on point
Revs might as well dance in circles around the DH
And these are all meta classes and PRESENT IN EVERY SINGLE game mode.
In addition to that, Condi warrior puts the guardian to shame in both melee and range.
I can’t believe how far the guardian has fallen. Players are actually getting flamed for rolling with a guardian as they are a detrimental to their team.
Anet…. do something please
Guard is great idk what you’re talking about. Try a different approach to fighting these classes I don’t even main guard and I can kill most classes easily. Just not botching your rotation helps
It’s really pretty simple, all you need to do is move evasion part on staff Vault staff skill from the beginning to end of animation, because currently with all that condi spam you just end up being blinded/feared/stunned/knocked right before you land EVERY TIME in teamfight, making you deal pretty much 0 dmg on every vault.
Honestly, thief is still like the worst class in game, no reason ever to pick thief in your team as a captain over a revenant. Rev got same mobility yet he also got crazy teamfight presense…
Wasn’t daredevil supposed to give thieves exactly that? At least some teamfight presence?
Edit:
Oh and another way to make thief viable in teamfights… Give Unload skill an unblockable and piercing tags. Pet/reflect/projectile block spam just makes it beyond worthless, even after recent buffs, which didn’t change anything pretty much. I wouldn’t mind those might stacks being removed in favor of unblockable/piercing honestly.
I main thief and there’s plenty of team fight potential for them you just can’t charge into kitten sand that’s basically wth any class thieves are calculated opportunists and when done right can really swing a team fight. I think they’re in a decent spot right now there are a few things they could fix to make them better but they’re not bad. I do just fine. I suggest practicing with friends in group fights to get a better feel for what’s going on in the group fight.
Sooo…. The beast final hit irritates a lot of people……. It shouldnt be “Final hit for points” But more of a percent based of dps….. More or Less it would make teams have to strategist more. The final hit is all around pretty wonkie.. Thats from Dota… percent based would change how the map is played..
No this system works quite well it it were Ike that high spike dmg ppl like an ele or a dh probably dh more than anything would be awarded the kill. The point of the game is to hold points and kill players it’s up to a players discretion to get the points and hold the points or if going after the best killing any threats first instead of going crazy hoping for the last hit.
Lots of people seem to be confused on how things are working. Depending on your situation, your expected win % can vary a lot.
MMR – hidden rating that moves around and tries to estimate your skill level
Pips – reward rating that measures a mix of your effort and your skill level
Matchmaking will find players who are within 15 pips of each other, then order them sequentially by MMR, putting the top 5 players on one team and the bottom 5 on the other. This ordering is done by MMR, not by pips, so a team with lower league players could be the higher MMR team; you really can’t tell if you’re on the high or low MMR team (so don’t worry about it).
Here are some scenarios:
- You are more skilled than players around your pip level – You win more than 50% and climb fast
- You have an equal skill level to players around your pip level – You win about 50%
- You have a lower skill level compared to your pip level – You win less than 50%
If you’re in the first group, ride the wave and be ready for when you hit the wall. If you’re in the second, keep playing and you’ll slowly gain pips thanks to streaks (and if you’re below ruby, tiers). If you’re in the third group, you need to focus on improving if you want your win rate to improve.
There’s also a secret scenario: Your MMR does not accurately represent your skill level at the moment. This can be due to being on different profession or build than you had been using, as well as natural gameplay quality variations. This scenario can and probably will apply to some number of players in any given game. If this is the case, then higher MMR team might actually be the weaker team and the lower MMR team the stronger.
At the end of the day, you should ride the win train until you hit the wall and then either focus on improving, keep playing if you’re having fun, or quit until next season. The system may slightly stack the teams, but unless someone is really far from where they should be pip wise, it won’t matter much.
this is a great post, but what if youre riding the wave and hit the wall, and that wall isnt you i find myself in the first scenario, i find myself playing my role well on my team not dying getting kills getting decaps (i play thief) not fighting off point u know all the p’s and q’s or whatever the term is. my problem is ever since i got halfway thru ruby i cant find a team where players dont over rotate or just plain get wiped and it costs me my hard earned pips to the point where im back in t1 and cant get out. Yes i want to get better at this game thats always part of why i play but its annoying when i cant because im stuck with players that dont know what theyre doing.
The frustrating thing is getting a insane streak and breaking into ruby super fast getting halfway and getting trapped with halfwits. I was t3 ruby and now i cant win a game to save my life. Not for lack of trying. Here’s what put me over the edge today, 3 matches 3 revs, 3 thieves, and then 3 rangers……wtf. if i manage to get on a streak despite all that i get fed to ppl in diamond….i had a match vs a diamond premade in ruby…. mind u one of them was Caed which if anyone keeps up with pro league hes competed in. We won the game but it wasnt easy and i cant help but think we werent supposed to. In my mind i should already have been in diamond and probably close to legy now but nope stuck in t1 ruby. This is frustrating. I just want to both have fun, and get rewarded of which im getting neither.
and it was a question of because it was hidden of it was a bug or an intended function and if it was to display the skill bar (more for the sake of common knowledge thought the current community and new players).
Haha, “a question”.
If you wanna adress something you’re not certain about, dont’ open your thread with a post arguing as if it is broken and needs a fix. Just kittening ask if it is intended or not. Don’t go on a rant.
The thread does however point out a potential QoL change for rangers; adding pet UI in downstate.
Lol but it does need a fix I didn’t call for a nerf but a fix. Whether fixing it meant giving them the ui or removing the the function either way it resolves the question. It’s because of that some people might rage and rant about it. However my original statement of it being irritating still stands lol I just wanna finish killing you and cap my point
Your opening post was clearly worded as if this wasn’t an intended function and should be fixed, as in removed, from the game. You had no intentions to ask for an improved ranger downstate UI.
It’s irritating. I’ve asked around agree and everyone agrees that it’s actually not supposed to function in downstate yet no one has made a complaint about t and it is abused I’m pvp all the time.
Stop making a fool out of yourself. “lol”
My intention was to bring attention to the situation from devs to point out whether it was an intended function of not. My original thought on the matter was that it isn’t supposed to function that way as there is nothing on the ui to imply it and the fact that every other class I game does not have access to their unique class mechanic in the downed state. It’s still something that needs to be addressed and is rather simple to imp. It shouldn’t be an argument still being made this many years after launch if it was intended.
To be honest I don’t really get the interest in stomping (other than showing a fun finisher), from what I’ve seen 9/10 times it’s safer to just AoE/attack spam a downed opponent than running in to attempt and stomp him.
And most of the time it’s safer to use a stability skill why trying to stomp anyone (not ranger specific), so just use that and you’re fine. If it wasn’t a ranger you were trying to kill you would probably use stability anyway.
And if a possible fix woud be to add the UI I really don’t see the complaint of your post.. it’s not like knowing that the ranger has an UI makes any difference. A ranger knows its pet can attack, no need to have th UI above the downed skills.
Stomping has its uses for example in a pvp match to finish an opponent so you can decap/cap a point.
Every class has stalling abilities that are beneficial to stall to get a few extra tics or to give time for an ally to come .The complaint was to bring attention to the gym he fact that ranger can extend this time with their pet and really to rectify it if it wasn’t an intended function. Apparently bug fixes have been done for pets’ behavior in downstate showing that it is in fact intended. Annoying as it might be I’m not one to cry about something that isn’t broken, so knowing its intended a ui would be great as the gw community is growing and this would avoid confusion to future players especially with the current influx in the pvp population since the game went f2p.
and it was a question of because it was hidden of it was a bug or an intended function and if it was to display the skill bar (more for the sake of common knowledge thought the current community and new players).
Haha, “a question”.
If you wanna adress something you’re not certain about, dont’ open your thread with a post arguing as if it is broken and needs a fix. Just kittening ask if it is intended or not. Don’t go on a rant.
The thread does however point out a potential QoL change for rangers; adding pet UI in downstate.
Lol but it does need a fix I didn’t call for a nerf but a fix. Whether fixing it meant giving them the ui or removing the the function either way it resolves the question. It’s because of that some people might rage and rant about it. However my original statement of it being irritating still stands lol I just wanna finish killing you and cap my point
troll
Sure if trolling means asking a question about a funtion that isn’t displayed in game. And asking for it to be addressed then yes I’m a troll.
Do us and yourself a favor and stop posting your useless compaints.
As others have said, you already lost this fight even before you started. It is intended to work this way.
It is quite obvious you got rekt by a ranger who knew what he was doing and you’re just crying like 95% of the community when a ranger does that.
What is your goal? To nerf the most broken class in the game even more?
Go and troll somewhere else.
1. It’s an open forum and I can inquire and post what I like as long as it’s purpose is to help the game or learn something I didn’t know
2. Stop putting Other ppls arguments to try and make it seem like you’re legitimately trying to provide a counter statement to my initial statement it just makes you look like an idiot and like the small percentage of idiots who like to talk trash that are in the gw community
3. Ranger is not broken. I don’t think I really need to say more than that.
4. If I got rekt and didn’t know what I was doing my complaint would be along with the rest of ppl who find nothing to complain about rangers and complain about rapid fire or something like that. It’s quite apparent that I was downing and finishing ppl who play ranger else I wouldn’t make a complaint about their DOWNED state.
So please stop being those ‘get rekt’ idiots learn to spell and leave constructive, informitive comments.
For the last few days I’ve been rocking it with a venomshare build in PvP and since I’m running P/P and P/D or SB (or just P/P again to get the sigil of energy proc for extra dodges) but with such a ranged heavy loadout my F1 skill of Steal is mostly unused, and if I do use it, it will probably get me killed or force me to burn all my dodges to get back to a safe range.
Thus I have two questions for your forumites, since a lot of you seem to have quite the brain between your ears.
1) Do you see much synergy with the steal mechanic and any general play?
There’s one obvious good synergy of maintaining melee contact on an enemy that wants to escape, but outside this there seems to be only niche fulfilment of functionality from traits.
2)If steal could be traited, or by default, count as one of the following: a leap, projectile or blast finisher, do you see it being a more robust tool and have more use in a wider range of builds?
Cause to be honest thief as it stands now has two non-projectile finishers, and with a single skill on a 20+ second cooldown I see little reason why it wouldn’t be mostly balanced.
Steal can already be traited to do a lot with just the press of one button askin for more is just selfish, I’m not going to tell you not to run p/p…I dislike it I don’t think it’s viable in fast pace matches as u spend all ur initiative taking out one person and in an outnumbered situation leave yourself hung out to dry….but if you like it that’s fine, steal and hit skill 5 to get a sure blind field on them and u can go ahead and follow up with unload to get dmg and more blinds bc projectile finisher. This is the best advice I can give.
Well if Staff/DD isn’t a stealth weapon like S/P and S/D or not supposed to be a stealth reliant class it probably shouldn’t have a Stealth Attack and have it proc in a different way.
Wow that’s like saying mesmers shouldn’t have a f4 if the clones don’t do damage,
Just bc it’s not stealth reliant doesn’t mean the stealth mechanic should disappear are u suggesting that you’ll never stealth? Blinding powder? SR? And if u have d/d d/p p/d s/d even s/p all will give you access to stealth to take advantage of staffs stealth attack after swapping to it
So with the multitude of reveal skills now at other classes’ disposal, isn’t it about time we got a way to counter it?
I’m thinking a trait or something that allows blinding powder (the deception utility) to remove reveal and stealth on use. The reason I’m thinking about this skill is that it’s a 40s cooldown vs the 20-30s cooldown of most reveal skills, which would make it good when revealed once but not twice so it wouldn’t remove the point of reveal completely.
This has an obvious side effect: double backstabs. Triple maybe, if you’re lucky with improv. Either this can be left as is if the damage is deemed fair, or more likely reveal can be split into 2 types: self reveal and externally applied reveal. Last I checked, mesmer and thief stealth had separate icons on your bar, so this shouldn’t be difficult to code.
Make it so thief can only remove externally applied reveal and you still have the same burst etc, but there would be some counter-play to lock on etc. Doing this would also make stealth trap less of a middle finger to the class than it currently is, whilst still leaving you open to be trapped multiple times if you’re dumb.
Thoughts?
I’ll try to say this politely. But no absolutely not. The best counter play to reveal is forcing your opponent to waste his reveal on a trivial stealth not your key stealth
i.e. Stealthing defensively to break combat or cleanse condis
Stealthing in Sr which usually is also defensive but it has a huge tell and it’s common knowledge it’s a long stealth
It becomes a game of baiting people out and this is not just about reveal its about everything if you know other profession you can tel what they’re runnin especially in pvp matches where you run into an opponent several times it becomes a chess game and I feel like that’s often lacking is players thinking in that manner and instead want things to come to them instead of out playing their opponent not just bc your class is op
There are no counterplays to reveal except “don’t get hit” which thieves have a hard time trying to do anyway.
Um…blinds…well timed dodges, shadowsteping away from the opponent, evades from s/d 3, bow 3, d/d 3, staff, withdraw, roll for initiative, reflect, now a block too. There are a crapton of ways thieves survive out of stealth the reason why people suffer so much when they get revealed is because they panic and don’t take full advantage of the things thieves have.
I would suggest, and I’m trying to be constructive not trying to seem like I’m on a high horse, dueling some friends and practicing using your other utilities and attacks taking full advantage of everything you have. Thieves despite being squishy can have a lot of sustain or rather damage aversion. Idk practice makes perfect imo.
You are saying it’s fine because you can dodge it. I’m saying it’s not because the game is no 1vs1.
Moreover there will be tons of reveals since every revenant will have it.
Reveal applied by other professions is just a wrong mechanic.
Stealth will be even less effettive; it will still be there, but it will be less reliable. And thieves are the ones who suffer the most from that.
You’re absolutely out of your mind if you say reveal is a bad mechanic it’s an amazing mechanic and offers most ppl who qq about theives’ ability to endlessly restealth in combat something to counter play stealth. The fact that you can dodge it is great too, I always felt as a thief being aware of your surroundings is important so yes u won’t always be 1v1 but if a scrapper joins the fray I think one would have the presence of mind to look for the reveal cast animation.
That being said this is great for two reasons
1. It separates good theives from thieves who know how to act I any situation vs theives who just cycle thru 5-1 5-1-2 5-2-1-222222
2. It promotes people to look at other builds (I’m about to make a bread about ideas to help expand builds for thieves go look for it and share your opinion)
A few adjustments I do think might be necessary as stealth heavy builds are as the phrase suggest really reliant on stealth for survivability some people have suggested making theives out of stealth combat more survivable (which tbh it’s not the greatest but there are plenty of builds that don’t abuse stealth and do just fine) this alternative tho is not the best one in my opinion as it only makes a thief who is even harder to kill bc they can use stealth to break target and be offensive and survive a lot out of stealth too. I think that using the current resource like blinds and timing your dodge rolls and not spamming them for the sake of it as I see many players do will help your out of stealth survivability just fine. My suggestion is to make the stealth skills that make you so strong in stealth a bit stronger like higher health regen and removing more condos in stealth….now this sounds op but I think it makes it that much more punishing when you get revealed and also more rewarding when you do get stealth bc you can now compensate for the damage you took for those six seconds of reveal. It balances out keeps stealth builds in a good place and makes getting revealed just few that much more punishing
For example let’s say you get condi bombed and you retreat into stealth to remove the condos and get revealed. That suck because (with an improved trait) going into condi would’ve removed 2 condis, now you’re stuck for six seconds with all those condis and more to be applied.
Idk I feel this way allows for more of a seesaw fights where the fight goes back and forth and only goes to the player who makes he least mistakes and plays the most skillfully.
and it was a question of because it was hidden of it was a bug or an intended function and if it was to display the skill bar (more for the sake of common knowledge thought the current community and new players).
Haha, “a question”.
If you wanna adress something you’re not certain about, dont’ open your thread with a post arguing as if it is broken and needs a fix. Just kittening ask if it is intended or not. Don’t go on a rant.
The thread does however point out a potential QoL change for rangers; adding pet UI in downstate.
Lol but it does need a fix I didn’t call for a nerf but a fix. Whether fixing it meant giving them the ui or removing the the function either way it resolves the question. It’s because of that some people might rage and rant about it. However my original statement of it being irritating still stands lol I just wanna finish killing you and cap my point
troll
Sure if trolling means asking a question about a funtion that isn’t displayed in game. And asking for it to be addressed then yes I’m a troll.
and it was a question of because it was hidden of it was a bug or an intended function and if it was to display the skill bar (more for the sake of common knowledge thought the current community and new players).
Haha, “a question”.
If you wanna adress something you’re not certain about, dont’ open your thread with a post arguing as if it is broken and needs a fix. Just kittening ask if it is intended or not. Don’t go on a rant.
The thread does however point out a potential QoL change for rangers; adding pet UI in downstate.
Lol but it does need a fix I didn’t call for a nerf but a fix. Whether fixing it meant giving them the ui or removing the the function either way it resolves the question. It’s because of that some people might rage and rant about it. However my original statement of it being irritating still stands lol I just wanna finish killing you and cap my point
Nothing new in this thread except another noob getting rekt by a ranger and asking it to be nerfed again.
Lol let me guess you’re a pro ranger. No I didn’t get ‘rekt’ I posted this thread after a very successful and fun night of pvp and my last match there were two rangers who would just stall out on my stomps it was irritating considering I’d blind them stealth all that jazz and if get feared etc and tbh it was just annoying I was done with them I had all my hp I was red to stomp move on and support my teammates that were still in combat or I wanted them off the point that I was trying to re or decap. The fact that this was happening just was really pronounced in that match. And as someone who does has a ranger albeit rarely plays it I knew one thing that the function was obviously available but was not something that was displayed in downstate raising the question as to IF this function was supposed to be available while in downstate and if it was not have it be removed and if it was that it should be displayed hence the “fix this” comment in the post
Idk where you got the idea of me losing to a ranger when the thread is about the downstate of a ranger obviously implying I was doing a lot of ranger killing lol. I think if rangers played something other than longbow it wouldn’t be so easy to get them to downstate in the first place
This is working as intended. The pet is independent from the Ranger, and is his ally. Besides, just think of what would happen to you in real life if you knock someone to the ground while he is walking his pet German Shepard?
Most of us here wish the Ranger would have more utility to keep us from getting to downstate, of course. But this is how it is. Generally speaking, you have to beat both the Ranger and his pet. Don’t think you’ve “won” the fight because you simply knocked the Ranger over. Ranger and Pet share boons, damage, conditions, etc.
Other classes buff themselves and allies with their skills, while Rangers are forced to buff the pet, half the time. The fight isn’t over until you defeat both the Ranger and his pet. As an example, I put quite a bit of thought into might stacking my pet Drake (Buttercup). If you down me when he has 25 stacks of might and you are almost dead, you are not even close to winning that fight (unless you know what you are doing). This is how it is goes with Ranger.
The pet attacking you while in downstate is understandable and is not what this thread is about, Mesmer clones thief pets and necro minions all attack while you’re down as wel the, the thread was made to address the fact that you can command the pet still and there’s no visible skill bar in downstate displaying that you can and it was a question of because it was hidden of it was a bug or an intended function and if it was to display the skill bar (more for the sake of common knowledge thought the current community and new players).
Stop come here criing for nerf! Ranger have a lor of problem to fix first.
Just use stealth stability or some invulnerability skill and press F.
For me downed state ele, thief, guardian and mesmer is a lot more boring.
It’s not a nerd it’s a possible bug fix….and even if it is a nerf you’ve lost the fight, it’s to prevent you from stalling forever on a point in pvp. Btw pet fears still work in stealth and through thieves blind field.
Well, we already know its not a bug because they fixed bugs specifically that prevented pet functionality in the downed state. Sorry, you already lost the fight before it began.
Not only that.
This thread was originally posted in the bug forum and it was moved by the mods to the ranger forum because it is clearly just ranger qq an not a bug.
The op is just trolling at this point.
Not trolling if you read through the comments you’d see that I was saying have that I’m not calling for a nerf just for the issue to be addressed, in and out of game, I was not aware of the bug fixes for pets in downed state, that being said I still believe the f skill bar should be displayed to display this functionality rather than have it hidden.
This has actually been a problem for a loooooooong time.
I am aware that each profession has a u owe mechanic and the Rangers pet
Serves as that mechanic. However in downstate every class is limited to the
Downstate skill bar. Some are better than others. Rangers’ in particular in my opinion of you or a buddy can stall out enough you can fully res. That’s fine. The problem, glitch,
Whatever you want to call it is, Rangers still have access to their unique profession mechanic where every single other class does not.
What do I mean?
Example. If thieves could steal for an additional teleport in downstate
If necro could death shroud
If guard could pop invuln
Basically the f skills
Rangers can currently swap pets and use their pets effects while in downstate. Making it so that they can stun you have their wolf fear you and then use their pet to help res them which can provide significant amount of stall on a point in pvp to keep you from capping or provide time for a teammate to come help.
It’s irritating. I’ve asked around agree and everyone agrees that it’s actually not supposed to function in downstate yet no one has made a complaint about t and it is abused I’m pvp all the time.
Please fix this.
I have never heard a man, wasting so many words on saying nothing
That’s quite a feat considering it’s all in writing and there’s no audio…perhaps you should consider getting checked out for those voices you hear?
Stop come here criing for nerf! Ranger have a lor of problem to fix first.
Just use stealth stability or some invulnerability skill and press F.
For me downed state ele, thief, guardian and mesmer is a lot more boring.
It’s not a nerf it’s a possible bug fix….and even if it is a nerf you’ve lost the fight, it’s to prevent you from stalling forever on a point in pvp. Btw pet fears still work in stealth and through thieves blind field.
Ranger can lose 30% of their dps at anytime during a fight. Food and other consumables don’t affect the pet. Most boons don’t affect the 30% damage this is our pet unless we trait it. Pets stats don’t scale up when the player is wearing ascended gear.
But you think ranger down state is broken and unfair. Look at classes as a whole and not just in a vacuum.
Stop trying to dps down and just stomp.
The post inst about the class as a whole it is about a particular mechanic that is functioning but hidden and often times when that has occurred and Anet catches wind it’s address. The inner of this post is to bring it to light and address it. This has nothing to do with how the pet behaves in combat to food or armor buffs but to the fact that it can still be controlled in downstate despite the downstate ui not showing that this is a capability, thus making it hidden, thus raising the question of why is this possible when there is no clear indication that it was intended? Is it? Yes…then fine? No then please remove it. As long as it’s ignored that question can never be resolved.
Once other classes get pets, they’ll be able to do it too. But, you know, you’ll also have to sacrifice a large portion of your damage in order to get one.
Anet said professions won’t be mixing like in gw1 (although that can change) but I’d take their word for it for now…and rangers despite giving up that damage still have high dps and from crazy range…I’ve had rangers hitting me at mansion from the clock tower (standing outside it me running into the point then getting out of range as I get to about the center or further)
That’s inane range and after dodge rolling you just have to take damage till u can LOS them. Rangers aren’t really lacking with dmg imo I think they could use a bit of love in other places but def not dmg
Downed state is not dead. If you want the effects of being dead to be applied to downed state then kill all necro minions, kill all mesmer illusions, kill all engi turrets cancel all aoes previously placed by the player that is downed etc
Glad you brought this up…if you downed a necro and he was able to hit his elite key to make his golem minion bile you over after having used his down state fear to cc you once….you would probably be crying for anet to fix it as you cannot trigger your elite in downed state. Might I add that necrosis life siphon is really strong in downstate so there’s always the chance they’d kill you if they were able to do that…YES the minions can still attack you there is nothing wrong with that but using skills separate from the given taskbar is what the argument is about.
Mesmer clones are the same imagine u down a mes he makes his downstate clones then uses his 3 skill to summon that stupid HS spamming clone then goes and gift f3 to daze you several times and ur in a pvp match and trying to get him off point and he’s stalking out ticking precious points for his team using a hidden mechanic…you’d again be crying for this to be fixed or rather addressed at least.
No you’re not dead in downed state but your last hoorah your last chance to stall out or res are your downstate 1 2 and 3 and if you have access to other skills or should be displayed or you shouldn’t have access. Get me?
I agree it’s intended-the argument is that it seems to be a “hidden mechanic”, but apart from that, from many points of view it not only makes sense, but it’s just right, and most certainly not “OP”. Though it’s one of the best downed states in the game, would you choose a Profession based on its “best downed skills?”… I assume not many would.
You’re absolutely correct I wouldn’t choos a profession based on its downed skills…I’m also glad you get my intent in what I was trying to say.
As Guardian, I can just f1 + f3 , spam blind and make both ranger and pet miss, and use aegis just to make sure.
As Thief I can just use stealth and stomp.
As Warrior I can just pop the stability.
As Ele I can pop stability or invulnerable to stomp too.
As Mesmer I can click f4 and use distortion stomp.
As Engi, I can use stealth or stability or invulnerable to stomp too.
As Necro, I can use shroud stability trait to stump too.
It’s actually EASIER to deal with than Thief and Ele downstate.
Conclusion: L2P
sigh….another ‘elite’ player trying to teach someone how to play….
One the thread is to bring attention to a hidden mechanic to either specify that it is intended or to remove it if it is not.
Two I’m fully aware of how to get a safe stomp. Regardless there are things called cool downs sometimes you’ve already blown your cd’s in the fight and managed to down your opponent now you go for a stomp….no stab no f4 as a mes no stealth as an engi….etc….and steal thing isn’t even safe btw the wolf can still cc u even through blind fields.
I’ll try and say this as easy as possible so you can understand
Anet the ppl who manage this game and help keep it balanced have dedicated THREE skills to every class in downstate in which these skills are the only skills available. Rangers in downstate unlike any other class have a hidden mechanic that still allows them to use their f skills to rotate pets and use pets attacks…when every other class can not use their class mechanic….Because it is a HIDDEN mechanic…the very valid question considering the state of all other classes downstate of whether or not this is intended can be asked as it is NOT specified neither in the description of ranger downstate skills on the list of downstate skills per class or shown in game as a task bar so that everyone new and old to the class can know that this IS intended.
lol