Guild Wars 2

mtpelion.4562:

ArenaNet is a game developer. NCSoft is their parent company, a publisher.

Game developers are Gamers. They like the same things you and I do.
Publishers are corporate suit types. They like money.

It doesn’t matter how much you and I and ArenaNet like something, if NCSoft says “No”, it will not happen.

ArenaNet listens. It is NCSoft who is ignoring you.

Funny, I find Carbine listens just fine. I don’t believe NCSoft is telling Carbine to ignore their paying customers or the folks testing on their PTR.

However, you are correct, there are business decisions being made with GW2 that don’t appear to be directly connected to player experience, nor customer delight.

-Long since given up trying to understand ANet

Dear John,

The answer to these questions were done in great detail at least 6, 9, 12 months ago by players who were at that time passionate about WvW and left long, carefully thought out posts. Some of those players had a history of playing other games such as DAoC and Warhammer (which were the predecessors to WvW.) The posts contained a great deal of analysis and reasonable suggestions.

Unfortunately most of those players have been driven off both by the moderators and by the game itself (lack of attention and communication in the area these players most cared about.)

The suggestions you will receive now, will probably for the most part, not be as robust as they would have been previously.

I would encourage someone from ANet to dust off the archived threads (at least those that have not been removed.) There’s a wealth of data there just ready to be mined.

We’ve been asked these questions before.

-Slapped in the face with this thread

Multiboxing is a playstyle I have done for over 12 years, often playing 3-4 characters MANUALLY – I have never used anything other than separate keyboards, mice, screens and my hands to reach over and move, heal, fight, etcetera.

I have also run 2 characters at a time this way in GW2 in an explorable dungeon – ONLY because there is one dungeon, one path where 5 characters HAVE to be present.

I was able to do that successfully playing an elementalist and a warrior. No 3rd party software, no macros.

This game really doesn’t lend itself well to multi-boxing. But then again, neither does the other game I am currently playing…. so far.

Good luck out here.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

And what happens when they read something they dont like the sounds of?

It would be no different than reading responses from their alpha testers and from forum posters.

They are free to weigh it, consider it, interpret it as they please or ignore it.

Or as is often typical in dysfunctional organizations, (as bewhatever has pointed out twice now), “filter” it so that management only hears “good news”. (Messengers are often “shot”.)

I seem to remember filling out game surveys in multiple MMO’s over the last 15 years.

Even one as recently within the last 6 months for a new game out on the market. (And funny thing that, they’ve actually made – successful – changes to the game that reflect some of the responses they received.)

I’ve filled out official surveys on forums – from VN Boards, alpha and beta testing, in- depth surveys mid-game cycle, heck, even exit surveys – that last reach for the ultimate customer feedback.

There’s plenty of precedent, and plenty of examples available, just within the gaming industry alone, if ANet doesn’t have a full-fledged marketing department with the proper level of experience/expertise and/or can’t afford the professionals.

From a 30-year development software “veteran”, I’m just surprised that any professional business entity is not actively interested in numeric data which will definitively answer the question “if I make this design decision, or allocate resources in this way, how many of my customers will I drive away?”

One word: fun.

I know it’s not going to happen.

-Goes back to the other game, now that maintenance is over.

Sorry for the flippant answer. Feedback given directly to the devs, through their own channels, has almost universally been ignored. (And I don’t mean through these boards).

Kind of shock, I know, coming from other games where this kind of blatant use of multiple accounts, multiple guilds, etcetera would have been a bannable offence.

My understanding is there are players out here who have multiple accounts with characters on 2 or 3 competing servers, usually with access to each server’s TS.

Last tournament, (Season 2), there were 2 enemy servers (all agreed/coordinated) who worked together, without fighting each other, in order to take turns trading weekly wins against the third server in their tier (e.g. “win trading”.) One week, server A allowed Server B to win, and the next week, vice versa. Both fought server C together without killing each other.

Set a precedent for WvW.

“Collusion” rules only apply specifically to SPvP.

These rules are not in effect in regards to WvW.

ANet has been touting that WvW “is not fair”.

- and that’s the way it is (Apologies to Mr. Cronkite)

Fuzzion.2504:

Let us not forget that Anet is trying their best to make GW2 WvWvW better than DAOC RvRvR. This will take time and perhaps bring alot of players back.

I haven’t seen a clear indication that this is the case.

I have seen a clear indication to the contrary.

I understand the latest attempt at “improvements” is experimental, at best, and feedback regarding it might be taken into account for any potential further “improvements” in the future.

see posting:

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

Basically removing the achievement requirement during a tournament is an experimental step we took to reduce the incentive for achievement grinding. We want people to play WvW, and not focus too heavily on satisfying achievement requirements.

If we find that players prefer having numerous things to check off a list, then we would certainly take that feedback into account and consider it for future tournaments.

It is unlikely that ANet, given the amount of goodwill, trust and money (multiple thousands of dollars) that they have squandered, will ever be able to “bring me back” after the latest rounds of “improvements”. I cannot take them seriously.

I only posted above to correct the impression that Mythic had not made an attempt to correct population imbalances in RvR. Something I cannot say regarding ANet (regarding WvW).

deracs.1762:

DAOC didn’t address population balances (back when there where multiple servers) Their zones/maps were huge, with far more roaming space. This allowed more freedom for 8man groups, zergs, solo/small man etc. Population imbalance was an issue in DAOC during its heyday. I remember playing on BORs server. 55% of the population was Mid. They dominated every BG and every map. Night capping was also a huge issue in DAOC

Personally I think a great deal of GW2 WvW issue’s are caused by the tiny tiny tiny maps

For the first couple of years, Bors was one of the most balanced servers. At one point, someone from another server who played Mid decided he didn’t like losing (mostly to Bors/Hibernia) and found a way to incent players to come to Bors (by handing them 300/500 gold for rerolling Midgard there).. sound familiar? Tipped the population heavily towards Midgard on Bors. About that same time the smite cleric nerf went in and Alb lost a lot of players. As Mid continued to grow/stomp Albion, even more Alb players left. That left Bors Mid in control. It also negatively impacted the original server the “pay-to-get-me-a-win” player came from.

Two things happened:

1) A huge group of players from Hib decided to get together and reroll on the original server the “young man in question” was from, in order to balance things out there. Some from Hib and Mid on Bors rerolled Albion, trying to preserve what was left of balance there.

2) Mythic ended up implementing leveling incentives to help spread the population by offering /level 30 on some specific servers/realms that were imbalanced. (Both Bors Hib and Bors Albion were offered /level 30.) /Level 30 gave players rolling on a new server an instant 30 levels - which was huge - in a game where endgame was level 50 and leveling mostly required grouping, special leveling spots (often with player-controlled “reservation/wait lists”), and dying would cause exp loss.

Transfers Didn’t Exist Then

Back then, transfers were unheard of. If someone wanted to play on a different server, they left everything behind (hard-won RvR ranks, any epic gear, etcetera) and rerolled from scratch on the new server. Leveling in PvE was basically a grind-fest for the general population. Moving to a new realm/server was a major decision, and not something implemented in a matter of minutes/hours.

Two things to remember

Night Capping: it was a different era back then when players could not easily get access across the internet to both US and EU at the time. (I know, kind of akin to thinking about rotary phones these days.. what’s that?) For the most part, most (not all), of the players on NA servers were from NA. Any “night capping” that occurred is similar to the “overtime” we see in GW2 today… in other words… players were either staying up late, or setting alarm clocks to get up at 3 AM or 5 AM to hit keeps and do relic raids when no one else was awake. (Which by the way, is a standard strategy seen in history.)

Also remember that classes on all 3 realms were not the same. Imbalances with classes (which were specific to the different realms – 52 classes in all spread across 3 realms) also played a part.

There was no question that there were population issues. Mostly player made. Which Mythic did attempt to mitigate at one point.

Trade-offs Need Consideration

Population imbalances have always been a problem, even in games with only 2 teams style PvP. I’ve yet to see a successful model implemented that can account for all the complexities inherent in player motivation and behavior. Every game, every solution has trade-offs. I’d agree though, that some solutions need more analysis.

Well, after not logging into the game for weeks, Weds night I and my guildmates decided to give GW2 one last try. We headed out to a BL map, took the Worg on our way to get supply, took 2 guards, swung through and took a tower, killed a dolyak on the way to another supply camp. DING! Weekly achieve done, listened to multiple exclamations of “WTKitten!”

Time: total of 20 mins (logging in, checking mail, shaking head over unusable TP), with only 5 mins of real WvW play (including a brief, successful scuffle with enemy players in the tower while capping.)

5 minutes.

We remembered our efforts in S1 doing overtime, we remembered what it took to accomplish them in S2 …. we turned to each other and knew that we could not seriously consider remaining with a game where the devs tout the New Player Experience at the expense of the Veteran player experience.

5 minutes of achieve was not enough to retain us. Glad we had a chance to experience the same shock others did at this situation.

5 minutes of mostly PvE play in WvW is not a compelling enough player experience that could retain us.

-Gone in 5

Avit.3165:

I took my time to look at the previous post of most people that are here to QQ about the WvW season achievements.Almost 100% of those people, have 0 posts on WvW subforum, but they have A LOT on any other PvE subforum.
Im quite sure this is the 1st time we have some many PvErs on WvW section, its so funny to watch em writhing like a worms.
Good job Anet

I recognize a lot of regular posters here from WvW. We also tend to get PvE players posting here around seasons (before/during/after).

Not seeing a particularly new trend here.

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

Basically removing the achievement requirement during a tournament is an experimental step we took to reduce the incentive for achievement grinding. We want people to play WvW, and not focus too heavily on satisfying achievement requirements.

If we find that players prefer having numerous things to check off a list, then we would certainly take that feedback into account and consider it for future tournaments.

Btw, it’s slightly disturbing that WvW Season now has an “experimental” component when other games in beta are drawing players off.

I understand there was an alpha testing process at one time that supposedly ran “concepts” past selected players. Are there no longer any WvW players as part of that process? Or is that all rubber stamped nowadays?

There are some suggestions on this thread, there might be suggestions that follow. There could have been more suggestions, had the players been asked and felt like their responses would have mattered.

Good luck with experimenting with whatever Seasons may occur in the future.

Season 3 was my last hope for keeping my guildmates with this game, and this “experiment” with what appears to be “welfare ascended earrings” (quoting one of them), just closed that door.

-2 years of constant beta is enough

Not personally concerned about achieves in WvW, that’s not what WvW is about. WvW players understand that.

However, as noted (rightly so), those achieves do motivate the PvE militia to “help out” during seasons. As much as many WvWplayers complain about their presence, there are many more commanders that are thankful for the addition of those mainly PvE players who are enticed to come out and help their server community.

With the latest trend of player attrition from this part of the game, concern for even less players available in the WvW maps is a reasonable issue.

Seems the pendulum (with this new set of achieves) might have just swung too hard the other way. Course correction might be to specify that at least 1 to 2 of those achieves occur on a BL map.

I am so, so sorry.

Will there be any militia at all?

Sounds like they’ve managed to dumb down WvW now as well, I didn’t think that possible given the state of the game.

Sounds like WvW Season 3 is going to basically be a non-event for silver platter tickets.

Don’t forget to watch Ready Up today to get the best on ANet ‘phoning it in’.

edit: see my post below regarding less players available for WvW.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/new-tournament-achievements-are-awful/first#post4405728

jonoth.2308:

Traveller.7496:

And you know how to write coherent sentences on a forum.

This made my day.

And to answer the earlier question, I used to play RIFT, where they did a very similar thing (ruined the starter experience/general leveling experience to attract new players), and it slowly started looking like they wanted a pay to win environment. You -could- technically get things in-game, but they made it hell to do so. It’ll be interesting to see how things progress here as well. My highest toon is still under 50 as of this post, so I don’t know what the “second half” quite has in store. That alone is probably the most optimistic thing to drive me to keep going.

RIFT had a lot of potential when it released, it was breaking new ground, they were throwing content over the wall at an incredible pace.

RIFT changed a lot more subtly over time (starting about 6 months out), than GW2 has.

Trion ended up “flailing”, trying to serve one set of customers at the expense of others, changing course, until it managed to alienate just about every segment of players, including those who “fell through the cracks”.

It was the precautionary tale we walked into GW2 with, only to see it play out again starting 3 months after GW2 release.

/shakes head

Solitaire.3680:

Nihilus.3015:

All their testers were over the age 40

really? So it’s an age thing? Keep in mind most MMO players over 40 came from those “walking uphill both ways in the snow” times of games like everquest which was much harder and grindier then any mmo’s that are released nowadays, with zero tutorials or anything telling you how to play or what to do next.. and only the community to rely on and outside sources. I would hazard to guess there are more new generation players that want things spoon fed rather then the old schoolers.. and I know plenty of over 40 players who have only gotten better at games and don’t mind the work to figure stuff out.

This.

I’ve been a tester in every game I’ve purchased over the last 15 years, and I’ve been over 40 for 17 years.

As for “don’t mind the work to figure stuff out”, I’ll point at Raph Koster’s book (A Theory of Fun) and his comment that “fun is in the learning.”

Yeah, us old fuddy-duddies have been warning game developers to not dumb down their games for quite some time (including ANet). But, as I said in another post earlier today, it’s a different market segment that has the greatest potential these days.

According to analysts, there’s a huge Asian market available, specifically Korea, and there are things, overall, in this “feature pack” that appear to be carefully aimed at that particular audience. (see: dumbing down of UI, leveling process, etcetera… things some of us warned ANet not to do over a year ago).

“Too confusing” is the key phrase. It’s been proven before in closed door testing with another game, that players in that particular segment will refuse to do anything (staring at a screen without playing) if they don’t understand exactly (led by the hand) what it is they are supposed to do .

Some of the folks in their 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and yes, 80’s may not enjoy the Nintendo-style platform play as much as younger players with better dexterity, but some of us thrive on games that demand thinking, exploring and problem solving.

And no, I’m not a casual.

Back on Topic: @OP, that was a nicely expressed post. I’m sorry you have not had the joy many of us had with this game for as long as we did. Hopefully you will find enough to keep you satisfied here, and if not, I wish you happy gaming wherever you may land.

OMG Stephapanda! Thank you so much! I am listening to my guildmates roaring with laughter at this thread!

Thank you for giving us the fun back as we are leaving!

Pardon any typos, I’m writing this with crayon.

According to analysts, there’s a huge Asian market available, specifically Korea, and there are things, overall, in this “feature pack” that appear to be carefully aimed at that particular audience. (see: dumbing down of UI, leveling process, etcetera… things some of us warned ANet not to do over a year ago).

“Too confusing” is the key phrase. It’s been proven before in closed door testing with another game, that players in that particular segment will refuse to do anything (staring at a screen without playing) if they don’t understand exactly (led by the hand) what it is they are supposed to do .

I agree with a lot of the sentiments being expressed both in this thread and in other forums that these small changes appear to be too little, too late and that they appear lacking in knowledgeable insight (into the player experience.)

Beyond that, I’m not qualified to say because, like others here, I won’t be logging in to test. ANet has already had constant “2nd chances” for 18 months.

Hope these changes work for the remaining players. Good luck out here.

I see they’ve managed to alienate some of the PvE players as well based on feedback on the general boards.

I’m sure that won’t overall affect the number of PvE players that show up for Season 3.

Wishing everyone here good luck and have fun for Season 3! I will watch the boards to see how it goes down; guild members have voted to not bother returning.

Oh my gosh, I’ve been doing it wrong all this time! I just heard that /cheer only works if one of your character’s legs is longer than the other.

I’m sure Season 3 will be full of PvE players looking to get their weekly Season 3 achieves. It seems ANet has now moved WvW towards the Living Story style of play, requiring play each week, (moving WvW out of play when you want/can during the season, into you MUST play NOW on ANet’s schedule.)

It’s been 2 years, and there hasn’t been a lot to show in terms of new content added for WvW, given that EotM is also another PvE-centric form of play (albeit in a WvW zone).

So, that’s a long time without a lot of developer attention, barely any (if at all) developer communication, no announced prospects for future development in WvW, what appears to be a repeat of Season 2 matchups for Season 3, and a continuing and growing move towards PvE within WvW….

….other games recently released and/or going open beta…

…downtime right before Season 3….

and yeah, I assume WvW feels a little less populated.

I wouldn’t know, haven’t logged in to play WvW in 3-4 weeks or longer (I’ve lost track).

-Off enjoying W* and will back for Season 3 as my last bit of GW2 play

I’ll add one word: megaserver.

You can’t have a caring community without community.

There always is a tiny fraction of the playerbase that is less than community-oriented. Provide an environment that fosters the anonymous nature of the internet, set up situations where community is not modeled, dilute community values by breaking community identity and spreading the “guardians” of those values too thin and the result is you end up promoting the behavior from those with no understanding or regard for the consequences of their behavior, since the normal social tools for enforcing consequences is gone.

@OP: thank you for still caring. Good luck out here as the trend will probably continue.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

goldenwing.8473:

I have done every dungeon ad naseum (story/explorables and fractals with only 4 people in a group), outdoor events, temples, etcetera. I have multiple alts (please see sig), 3 sets of ascended, and won’t do PvP because as a former world ladder FPS player (#2 team), I don’t enjoy PvP constraints in an MMO.

All you’ve done is further solidified my stance. Take a break for goodness sakes. You’re burned out. The game will still be here if you decide to come back at a later time. W3 isn’t going anywhere. The server you so boldly claim pride over may very well completely change as people come and go. For that reason, it is not a good idea to cling to server pride. Guild pride, yes, but server pride is not. If your server ends up becoming a ‘ghost town’ like some of the lower populated servers, will you still remain loyal to that server, or will you move to a server that has more people playing on it? I’m willing to bet you would rather be part of a server that has a larger player base, because it’s the players themselves that make the community, not the server name. I moved to Sea of Sorrows because it has a large oceanic player base and I am currently living in Japan. I first started playing on the Northern Shiverpeaks server and was part of the great ZoS guild. When I moved to Japan, the time zone difference was very apparent. I needed to move if I wanted to have more people online to play with.

Either I need to leave the game because there’s more than WvW in this game or I need to leave the game because I’ve played more than WvW?

My stance is clear.

ANet marketed RvR style play with WvW. It is a differentiating feature for the game. When they consolidated PvE with megaserver, they continued to preserve the servers for WvW. Flawed as that may be, it is the inherent concept behind WvW. The alternative (EotM) already exists within the game. There is no need to remove their game differentiating feature.

I’ve left a long posting history explaining my values regarding community and my server and have stated numerous times that if my server fell to T6 or T8, I would remain with my server. My server has a developed a culture that I embrace. Just as many other servers have. It’s “home” in this game. It’s a feeling many other players have for their servers.

It’s not about winning/bragging. It’s about familiar folks in both PvE and WvW who look out for each other, cover each other’s backs, share common values and work together in a synergistic way where the whole is bigger than the combined parts.

In short: it’s about community.

The larger, anonymous player base already exists in multiple games through more than one decade. DAoC was known not only for RvR; it was known for the strong sense of community that style of play generated. WvW was based on that concept.

The larger, anonymous player base already exists in GW2 in both PvE (megaserver) and in EotM.

Again, changing WvW to be EotM to replicate the anonymous nature of a loose organization of a larger population is not only a detrimental marketing move, it is redundant.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

goldenwing.8473:

Bottom line: take away server loyalty and you take away my reason for playing this game at all.

Then maybe, just maybe, this game isn’t for you. The game has a lot more to offer than just W3.

I have done every dungeon ad naseum (story/explorables and fractals with only 4 people in a group), outdoor events, temples, etcetera. I have multiple alts (please see sig), 3 sets of ascended, and won’t do PvP because as a former world ladder FPS player (#2 team), I don’t enjoy PvP constraints in an MMO.

This game has had little to recommend it over the last 18 months (been playing since BWE1, in terms of new permanent content that I and my guild enjoy. (See all my posts regarding Living Story).

I picked up GW2 for 2 reasons: mobile combat and server-pride WvW (which harkens to DAoC’s RvR.)

I bought this game on the premise of server associated WvW which was marketed at release.

At the moment, there is nothing left keeping me in the game except that.

I fully support the other parts of the game, and the players that enjoy them.

I don’t support eliminating the one differentiating aspect of the game that so many other players enjoy when alternatives within the game already exist.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

I’m not sure if this has been brought up before. Frankly, I’m not going to dig through the refuse that is the forums to see if there is another thread on this already, because man there are a lot of cringe-inducing threads here.
…/snip

I’m sure I’ve responded to this before. Frankly, I’m not going to dig through all of my posting history to find the numerous responses I’ve left on other threads already, because man, the response I would leave would be objectively noteworthy.

Bottom line: take away server loyalty and you take away my reason for playing this game at all.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Maybe someone can help me out here, because I just don’t understand this “feature” patch.

Since the game launched 2 years ago, it was touted as having a great leveling system, where you could go anywhere, didn’t have to do quests and could level doing pretty much anything.

The game has always had one major complaint, the lack of endgame content. There were no raids, no new areas, no endgame progression, and no new ingame skins being released.

These two things have been pretty much the two constants of the game since launch… leveling good… endgame bad…

Yet we now have spent the last 2 “feature” patches revamping the leveling system from the ground up and not introducing a single bit of endgame. I literally just spent the last 20 minutes looking for a SINGLE thread that said they should revamp leveling and I couldn’t find one person complaining about it. The biggest complaint related to leveling I could find was to undo the changes to leveling the last “feature” patch brought.

So what exactly is the point of revamping the only part of the game people almost unanimously loved and completely ignoring the areas of the game people think need the most work? It just seems like a terrible business strategy to me.

Development is often like trying to turn a battleship in open sea, it just takes a long time, during which time the focus is on the required execution, which inhibits responding to other issues.

Having said that…..

….I’ve been saying that ANet has been churning for quite some time now.

Add in the potential new market in Asia (looking at Korea) and you will find that some developers respond to that market and their customers by “dumbing down the game”.

Example: Trion/ RIFT: Korean customers could not get past the “complicated” character creation screen during a preview session behind closed doors, so just sat there in front of the computers doing nothing until the allotted time ran out. Trion then changed the character creation process, setting up templates/defaults which none of their “veteran” customers at that time had requested. The game at that point, had already driven off a large number of customers that could not/would not research specs, etcetera, and the “dumbing down” changes confused / angered some of the remaining customer base.

Speculation: this set of changes in GW2 is probably not aimed at veteran players. It could be aimed at box sales/new customers. I don’t know if ANet believes the veterans will hang around on the hopes of more content coming, or if they don’t care and are concentrating on expanding their market for least amount of reinvestment, or a little bit of both. They have shown repeatedly that they appear to be out of touch with their customers and their customer’s experiences with the game.

As a business strategy, we can only speculate. Without transparent communication, we actually have no clue. I might add that SONY was relatively successful despite attriting 50% of their playerbase at the height of their success. /shrug

Personally, I’m done trying to guess, second-guess, or make any heads or tails of any semblance of logic regarding management at ANet, their vision, style, content, communication and lack thereof of all of the above.

I’m focused on results. Not futures.

-Here for WvW Season 3 only and that’s not looking promising at the moment either

PS: For those saying that players have no right to complain:

I am not going to complain about these changes. I will say this: the thousands of dollars I have spent on gems have netted me no significant positive changes to the kind of gameplay that I enjoy, and have instead been “spent” on content that is of no use to me, with no communication regarding new content I could use.

I am glad others are benefitting from my previous “investment”.

At this point, the correct thing for me to do, since I am not running a charity, is to invest that elsewhere.

Banzie.5248:

Avit.3165:

The problem is not that some people will leave GW2 for AA.
The problem is that,some people left for TESO,some people left for Wildstar,some people will leave for AA and some people will leave for the new WoW expansion, and many many of those people never came back, i can tell you this by looking my friends list.

^ People keep thinking its gonna be some massive migration.
But look back at WvW from before TESO and Wildstar came out. It was still lively, in all tiers. Look at it now. Most lower tiers are dead with mid tiers dwindling.

The games wont Kill WvW, They’ll take players away in small chunks, that you dont even notice at first, but do when you look back.

ANet is trying to replace lost players, with new players. Instead of Retaining old players. Dumbest idea ever imo.

Worked for SONY. At the height of EQ’s success, they were attriting 50% of their playerbase. Hindsight for developers who aren’t paying attention, or treat customers as disposable is always an enlightening process. Unfortunately, as said above, always too late.

Have to agree with a lot of points here, starting with the sentiments of the OP, the fact that there isn’t a good competitive RvR game at present, concerns over the viability of CU (complete with its current funding model) – and yes, I hope it launches successfully.

I stopped calling GW2 an MMO about a year ago. (That’s another long post.)

Haven’t bothered to log in to even get the birthday stuff. The killer was the notice that Season 3 is the same structure as Season 2 (after statements about not playing against the same opponents more than once.)

I will log in for Season 3; if it turns out to be like last season, with additional degradation from the new “improved” siege changes, it’s a foregone conclusion that I and my guild will be gone.

We went without DAoC’s RvR for 7 years, a couple more waiting for CU isn’t a big deal.

We still have other games and real MMO’s to get us through the wait time. And we’re happy to pay for them.

1. called “ban” bot.
2. has said “we’ve received reports.”
3.“we will be forced to investigate”
4. “we will be forced to take action against your account”

Combined, all of these are impersonating statements. Only ANet is capable of taking action against an account.

However, that’s not up to us to decide. Support needs to know.

NightWalker.1405:

I don’t see anywhere on there where they say they are anet. Looks like a roleplayer.

Use of the word “we” implies ANet; hence implied impersonation.

Southern.8973:

That’s not ANet staff. Add the name to your “Friends” or “Blocked” list and you’ll see who it is. S/he has a history of complaining about “Match Fixing” in EotM here on the forums. Guess this person doesn’t know impersonating Staff is bannable.

Ding!

Send screenshot and any supporting info to support.

If I wanted to play campaigns, I would find a game that was designed to be a campaign game.

GW2 was launched as an MMO. There’s an inherent expectation that expansions are part of that design. And expansions, inherently over the last decade and a half, typically involve more than just story.

First, posting names on the forums is against the rules. Either black out the names/ remove names from your post, or send this information in an email to support.

Second, what makes you think the person wasn’t trolling you? (Hint: devs don’t use purple chat). If this guy was trying to impersonate an ANet dev, support needs to know.

Third: see ‘win trading’ that occurred all of Season 2 (tournament.)

Flytrap.8075:

Linnael.1069:

I’ve certainly never seen the entire front two pages be flooded with posts insinuating that ANet does nothing at all with their time. I’ve never seen a wholesale crash of player confidence. I’ve never seen anything warrant a flood of dev responses, a return of the CDI, and a bunch of game designer posts regarding high level company policy.

After two years of blog posts, dev updates, and what-have-you from ANet, it’s pretty clear at this point that their main tool is the classic carrot on the stick. Sure, O’Brien can say that they don’t want to string players along, but that’s exactly what they’re doing by refusing to release development details on new content and committing to a timetable.

Imagine that tomorrow, they change their policy and announce everything they have in the pipeline and what you can expect for the next year to come. What if it’s not good enough? What if it’s just more of the same Living Story and Gem Store updates? I know I’d be gone for good.

By keeping radio silence, they let each player individually build up their own hype and expectations. I wonder what they’re working on… I mean, as far as we know, it could literally be anything.

And that’s the point.

And that’s exactly what has left me skeptical and investing my wallet in another game, because I don’t like feeling that someone is holding their cards that close to their chest. It don’t like feeling toyed with, and as a customer, if I can’t trust the business I am doing business with, there is no point in continuing a relationship. For me to do so would feel incredibly dysfunctional.

Bottom line: for me, it’s off-putting. I won’t use stronger language, although I could.

2 reasons why I picked up GW2:

1) mobile combat

2) 5-man content

Megaserver is bad enough, erasing all feel of server community outside of WvW.

Destroy dungeons and erase that last sense of community at a guild level….

… who does that serve? That’s a serious question, because there are already outdoor bosses, and EotM has turned into a PvE karma train.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Love the new birthday blaster….

But seriously Anet… what are we supposed to do with more experience scrolls?

Use them for the monthly (skill points).

Last comment: my Co-GM, Matipzieu above speaks for me, as well as our entire guild. He took the time to spell out the issues, in a way I did not feel was necessary to do for other developers. I commend him for taking the time on a busy moving day, to stop packing to post about his passion.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Brainstorm-Key-Discussion-Points/page/2#post4329319

Likewise, Colin, I commend you for trying to address the communication issue.

Again, from someone who has spent 10-12 years worth of comparable subscription fees on this game, from someone who posted in multiple places that 2 years ago, waiting 6 months without a game to play, (first time in 13+ years of MMO play), for a game that had me as excited as a kid waiting for Christmas (no mean feat, for a woman my age – 57)….. someone who at one point was able to give internal input that was given glowing recognition…..

… I continue to want to play this game, yet feel pushed out by what I can only say absolutely feels like total lack of care for the customers and their experiences.

Lack of significant, quality, on-going communication is a huge part of that.

That ANet cares about their game, is not in question.

As I warned Chris, regarding the CDI, if there is not on-going commitment to it, if there is not a two-way dialogue, trust/faith will be damaged, and the communication problem will become worse.

This post is designed to be on topic. It is not only what is posted, it is how, and how often. The interaction style (again, see Wilson Learning) will communicate just as much, if not more than the content being discussed.

PS: Specifically answering ONLY the (isolated) question being asked, in a highly analytic way, will not fully convey the data required to move communication forward in positive direction. That is part of the communication issue at stake.

Doesn’t ArchAge release about midway through the next proposed WvW Season?

Or is that the last beta at that time?

(Admits to not being on top of that one.) That would impact more than just Maguuma.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks just to be clear, this isn’t a thread where you list all the stuff you’d like to see in the game (we have plenty of those!)

This is a thread to discuss the idea of adding a sticky to the top of each of the big forum threads (PvP, dungeons, WvW, General discussions, etc.) where we help provide a very high level list of stuff the Gw2 Dev team is aware of with the game, and what questions/thoughts we’re giving those areas to help guide your discussions – and provide visibility into the very top tier stuff we’re aware of.

Feedback on just the idea itself as a concept please, thank you!

If the sticky sits there as a marketing tool, at such a high level that it becomes virtually a message of “yes, we’ve heard feedback” and nothing more, then that constant reminder can end up being a mockery of real communication and make the process worse. (e.g. "any intuitive changes to a complex system will inevitably leave that system worse off.)

Colin, I understand you are earnestly attempting to address a real issue. There absolutely is a communication problem, some of which is rooted in what appears to be internal corporate culture and how exactly customers are viewed, and what has priority (technical internal processes over customer experience, which includes communication btw.) (Please see Wilson Learning and the programs they offer to help companies understand interactions. That’s not a plug from someone with a vested interest. That’s just a recommendation from a software development manager who volunteered to help teach those processes at a Fortune 20 company, which effectively used those processes for decades, both internally and externally with customers.)

I’ll just note: I’ve spent over 10-12 years worth of comparable subscription fees on this game; and this thread only leaves me feeling more skeptical. Although I’m sure there are many customers here who will appreciate a “bone being thrown”, it’s a little too little a little too late. (I expect this post to be flushed.)

(late edit for typo)

Without totally going off topic here, very quickly, what GW2 and Wildstar have in common is NCSOFT.

GW2 and Wildstar serve two totally different audiences. If Wildstar is happening to see a drop at the moment, some of that is probably due to the standard attrition that every game sees within the first two months. Other attrition, if it is happening (and I have no data), is probably due to the fact that the game is more challenging than most current games (excluding Eve – which is a persistent strategy game.)

I started with GW2 because I didn’t want a WoW clone either, having played multiple different MMOs, long before (edit: and after) WoW was released.

Yet, after being alienated consistently for 18 months with each consecutive release of patches and what is now obviously the direction GW2 is going, I have invested into Wildstar and am barely hanging in with GW2 for what may be the last hurrah of WvW (Season 3).

Wildstar is providing the exploration I want, new playable content, and the challenge I need as a skilled player. And, after having spent over 10+ year’s worth of comparable subscription fees on GW2, I am thoroughly enjoying paying only $30/month for two Wildstar accounts and seeing the devs there confirm that they need to deliver subscription content since they are charging for it.

The audiences for those games are totally different.

I have enjoyed a lot of what GW2 originally offered. I understand there is an audience that enjoys the direction it has veered into, and will continue heading towards.

I am sad that my time with this game looks like it’s dwindling. I wanted this game to last long past what it has.

And what the OP describes in her original post is in part why this game no longers works for me, or for those who play with me.

Sadly.

SkylightMoon:

thank you for the post and the interview link.

I’m very aware of the state of the game and have had on-going discussions with other members from my guild, as we have been watching feedback for over 18 months. At this time, we are not allowed to talk about the development regarding our attrition at this time.

I don’t expect there will be a large post of that sort until we are at the point where we have given up trying to stay with GW2, this is the direction our guild is going over the long term. That being said, it’s not entirely impossible that we will remain with GW2. I don’t expect to see us remaining long term anytime soon.

/failed attempt at parody

I’ve used the phrase “this game had so much potential at release” before, but never with quite as much sadness.

Reverence.6915:

Last I saw a queue during OCX was early S2

Yeah…

OCX is the main time frame I play with my guild. What queues?

morrolan.9608:

goldenwing.8473:

T1 – OCX: if you’re roaming, be prepared for a large JQ blob to land on you.

And if you’re on JQ be prepared for a TC or BG blob.

goldenwing.8473:

If you want a better picture, head over to the community matchup site.

That site does not give an honest picture of anything. Everybody on it insists on spreading lies about the other servers so no don’t use it as an indicator of anything.

At least there you can discuss freely.

And you can dig through and actually figure out who is lying, who is spreading rumors.

Here, you cannot challenge the people doing either. The lies and rumors are just as bad here. On the other forum, you can call people out on it.

2v1 is a legit “in the moment of battle” strategy. It is a necessary function in a 3-way battle to ensure no particular server dominates. ANet has repeatedly said that WvW was not designed to be fair.

Match manipulation/win trading however, is another topic.

All I will say about that subject is this:

There is specific language regarding match manipulation for SPvP.

It has been shown that the specific language does not apply to WvW.

Precedent was set during Tournament. (see NA T1 “win trading” that occurred throughout the entire second season of WvW.)

Motivation was irrelevant. Observable behavior clearly established occurrence. Precedent formed.

-Just the facts

T1 – OCX: if you’re roaming, be prepared for a large JQ blob to land on you. As said above, 70 man map blobs are not uncommon on one of the BL maps. You many find the other 2 BL maps have outmanned buff (if you’re on BG), because the blob tends to move as a blob, map hopping. There are several guilds that play in that time frame. And there are 10-15 man “havoc” squads running around. It’s possible to solo roam, but seems to be more rare lately.

It’s been running a little lighter over the summer, at least on BG, where some of the OCX coverage that usually comes from NA overtime is taking a break. There’s been more attempts at GvG going on as well.

If you want a better picture, head over to the community matchup site.

And so it begins….

…. all the rumors about which server bought who for what timezone.

When you point a finger at someone else, you point three at yourself.

Even for those who play for the sheer love of wvw and community, those rewards are….underwhelming.

Glad to see the shorter duration (given how most of us posted 9 weeks was too long).

New format will keep the achieve hunters from completing everything in the first week and then disappearing, which should help to spread the PuG population throughout the tournament (assuming they believe the rewards are worthwhile). However, the down side is there is no way to “catch up” if you miss a week (heavy work schedule/illness/late vacation/etcetera).

Forcing the weekly achieves during the specified times feels more like the LS process than a Swiss-style tournament. Oh well. The lack of creativity there is not surprising.

It is hard to get excited about a format that feels like translated PvE (e.g. LS), given that’s a format I utterly despise about this game.

Curious to see how the matchup parameters are are determined.

I guess at this point, if I’m motivated enough, I’d play for curiosity’s sake.

But this feels like the last chance for me. If this turns out to be as underwhelming as it looks, that’s it for this game for me.

Guhracie.3419:

The best character in gw2 is, objectively, Tybalt.

The best buffoonish character in gw2 is, objectively, Tybalt.

/agreed

From the official ANet interview with Guildmag:

“We are going to start off by talking about changes to the commander system which is not specifically for World v World but it’s where, you know, it gets the most support."

There you have it guys.They are talking about using red/blue/yellow for the Wurm in PvE.

-no new news here

Scrambles.2604:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Scrambles.2604:

If it wasn’t for Anet’s history of almost getting feature changes correct, i would bet on this being a PR move to generate controversy and publicity for the new feature patch.

Rarely does this community find itself primarily on the same side of an issue, so something must be afoot. WvW has lost a lot of players (at least from my perspective as a WvW player), and colored tags is a big change to improve and enhance WvW.

In order to get the word out to bring players back to WvW, Anet implements a controversial change to generate buzz and reach out to old GW2 players that may not follow the game closely, but would likely hear about what is regarded in the community as a big mistake.

I would imagine changing the colored tags to be more accessible would be a relatively easy change, so they set themselves up to be in a position of “OK you guys are right! We are changing the tags, because we are listening and we are here for you!”
Tl;dr – the change is a sloppy misstep or a calculated PR move. I’ll be selling tinfoil hats for 300g. If you want a different colored tinfoil hat it will be an additional 300g.

If true, it’s still a fail. Why risk generating all this bad blood with the cloak-and-dagger, horribly miscalculated, minsinformation, bait-and-switch campaign when they could just take the path of least resistance?

Namely, just give us exactly what we asked for without piling any additional feces on top of it: all commander tags now have the ability to change color on the fly. No additional costs, no having to pay for each additional color, nada, nothing, zilch, zero, zip. Period.

It’s not a fail, though. They have no subscribers to lose. If it’s an easy fix, like i assume it is, then they’ll fix it and still come out on top. “We have listened to the community and fixed this because we love you.”

That being said, controversy is the best publicity generator. I haven’t posted on here in months, yet this ridiculous change brought me back to the boards. It’s a terrible change, but it definitely grabbed my attention at least. I know more about the feature patch now because i have been reading up on this one backasswards change. If it wasn’t for the controversy i probably would have just passed over the description of the feature patch.

I’ll admit it’s farfetched and i’m still offering those tinfoil hats in various colors. They say not to attribute malice to that which can be explained by negligence. But marketing is a fickle beast that can never be trusted.

Actually, the saying generally goes:

Never attribute to malice aforethought that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

Generating controversy to create hype requires marketing skill above and beyond what has been exhibited so far. Further inflaming disenfranchised customers, then using that in a dysfunctional way to promote a superior vendor status requires a very deft hand.

And that can only be used so many times, before even moderately-discerning customers become skeptical.

This is all assuming that ANet actually wants their only game-differentiating feature (WvW) to continue, and they aren’t trying to attrit WvW players so they no longer need to waste investment on supporting it….

..uh, goes back to first statement in this post. Sorry, tinfoil moment there.

I believe we just plain and simple have a design decision made in a meeting room without someone present who has a clear understanding of the entirety of the WvW experience from a customer perspective.

There are good suggestions and a lot of feedback on this thread. Not expecting any response until Sept 9th. And skeptical of what that will be. Curious to see what the player response will be then, especially if they announce the start of Season 3 soon after (conjecture).

“Be careful what you ask for…"

I’d bet, there is some “philosophy” that all tags ought to be public, period. (Given that the currently stated implementation leans heavily in favor of PvE use, not WvW.)

So, I’d assume what ANet would do is:

1) Leave the current Blue tag as totally Public and at 100g.

2) Have “vanity” tags – different colored ones at 300g each.

3) Have the ability to get a Golden (guild/squad visible only) tag for 300g plus (pick one of the following: x number of dragonite, badges, bloodstone dusts, laurels, empyreal bricks – and/or a couple of vision crystals – and/or guild influence – whichever they feel would be harder for WvW players to acquire.)