Yes they are still there in stealth for your attacks not stomps. So attack!
Refuge is one of the more easily countered “down plays” and better yet you play the class that is best at countering it. If somehow every single one of your CC/interrupts is on CD then drop some poison on the refuge and continue rolling face across the nade/bombs and wala, if the thief trying to rez doesn’t jump out of the refuge with his tail between his legs then you not only finish the first enemy but you’ll secure another kill too.
So now you have 2 of the opposing team waiting to rez while you secure the Tranq buff, you had a chance to be great but blew it because you would rather QQ. = GG
the final round was super intense. grats to both teams as it was fun to watch.
Why won’t you invite your Fiery Dragon Sword to join this kittening game anymore?!? =(
lawl so owned
Here it is in a summary.
WvW = hardcore
PvP = casualNow, this is the exact opposite of what ANET originally intended. So, why is this the case? WvW offers a lot more strategy. All of the different weapon, armor, trinket, food combinations allow you to really create something based on your playstyle. PvP in its effort to be balanced, removes that strategy. It’s just not fun.
Stat allocation in PVE (WvW) is only different in that you can have all the stats at once. With food/oils and different stat pieces there is no reason to min/max your strengths vs weakness as you can just have it all. I find it pretty lame actually. Even though PvP stats could use some updating I much prefer having to actually think about what you use.
Securing a clutch stomp is definitely something to learn as thieves have very good tools to do so. But I think the argument was based on lines of skilled opponents. Meaning you can pull off a lot of uncontested stomps mid team fight at lower skilled levels of play, but it will prove to be a costly habit to get into.
As soon as you start going up against stronger opponents in high end play the fight will always revolve around the downed. Meaning that as soon as someone goes down (or is even close) there will always be a teammate rushing in to counter the stomp. And when any skilled player sees a thief stomping their eyes light up because that means a free kill + rez.
Think they could go a long way with increasing the size of capture nodes. I notice aoe spam is the most frustrating when contesting a point and the aoe is completely carpeting the whole space.
Sometimes when It’s 1v1 I can see it as not such a bad thing where I have to choose between contesting that point or taking the damage (most likely sacrificeing some CD to counter it) but when there is 2 or more cleave classes there it is just too much.
When on a big point like graveyard this is lessened to a degree.
You will soon learn that the time it takes between the HS + Steal and backstab is a lifetime in PvP when using this combo:
“Blackpowder => heartseeker + Steal => backstab.”. The most important thing is always landing the BS. The full combo is used only when your absolutely sure you will land the entire thing for maximum damage.
Also, the HS portion of the combo can also cover a lot of ground if you choose to wait on the steal/stab. Think when your coming up to a point where the closest possible place you can drop powder and HS through without the enemy on point seeing your advance (around a corner, out of LoS) Often times you can come out of the HS with just enough time left on stealth to position for the BS without them even knowing you were near. This is to counter the fact that if they see you obviously running towards them and powder+HS they can position themselves (and their juicy backside) in a way where they know you wouldnt be able to reach them in time. A lot of the burst thief is mind games, because if they have time to prepare it is very easy to counter you. Keep in mind as soon as your spotted they will be calling for help, so the less time they have for that leaves precious seconds for you to secure the kill and start decapping the node.
EDIT: Also wanted to add that you should become comfortable with manually dropping target with BP+HS before you use it. Often times the best place to position yourself wont be right next to an enemy and youll need to have dropped the target so the HS takes you to where you want to be.
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I think some ppl are overacting a bit and just seeing some of the juicier buffs. I think he was actually pretty harsh on the nerf side to. As said before I really like the changes rewarding skilled play with the “on landing” skills. Like the lars strike and headshot change.
The dancing dagger stun is a must have. Ppl have to realize overall gameplay has increased since the early days of d/d. It is easily countered and needs something to make the insane risk worth it.
I would add in reverting revealed time to be the same across all formats tho
Good stuff
For PvP: 25/30/0/0/15 or 10/30/0/0/30, everything else sucks.
Could you post these two builds please (mostly the later as I don’t pvp much), I’m looking to learn how to play my thief (which I’ve had for a while but was engrossed in other classes).
heres the 10/30/0/0/30:
its also known as the “Caed” spec as he would be the thief that popularized it, so try looking him up (youtube/twitch) if you want to see it in action.
Its been around for a while, and since it received no real nerf with the recent patch it may have been “buffed” in a way due to balancing of other classes.
Basically its classic dagger MH play; skipping in and out of the fight downing the weakest opponent then retreating to the backline with SB and roaming.
Specifically it uses the trickery line to have a short CD on steal as well as buffing steal with boons and boon strip. Use black powder > heartseeker through it for stealth > press 1 and then steal right after to teleport backstab.
Example: The daze you get from 30 trickery can be pretty brutal with this. Try using it on a guardian to daze them and then right after use the stolen item to stun them. Its a good way to put out some big pressure real fast.
I’m still not 100% sure what you’re trying to argue. Warrior healing signet is a completely irrelevant topic when discussing the state of the D/P trickery build for thief, so is the class I main. If you want to be taken seriously I recommend you form an opinion and support it with evidence.
The competitive tpvp community is severely under represented on the forums and this is part of the reason why. Please bring some intelligent discussion and they may return. I would love to hear their opinions.
Competitive tpvp thieves left (rerolled) a while ago predicting this current state. I recommend you form an opinion and support a reason with evidence as to why.
Pretty much the same story its always been for anyone looking to start back up.
Most things are just a little worse, some things are a lot worse. Nothing got better.
S/D is still good just a little worse, the loss of 1 boon removal is a hit to its utility/support role but most still use it for the evade/mobility in group fights. (ironically it was the patch that was supposed to focus on group support, OH WAIT venomshare got buffed nvm we cool)
Was actually just about to make a post on this before seeing the thread.
It really does need to go, even if its making it 4 seconds in both areas. I have pretty much stopped playing my thief (main) in spvp due to just this issue. I play both WvW and s/tpvp and when I make the switch to tournies I find myself wasting ini and messing up constantly due to a difference in the revealed time. Thieves should be rewarded for being able to wait off the revealed debuff accurately not be punished for enjoying both areas of gameplay.
Not to mention we have never received a reason for the nerf when it went live. So we had to assume it was intended to alleviate stealth abuse via culling which had a far greater impact in WvW. Yet the nerf remains only in Tpvp???
NOTE: The real issue is playing in one game type (spvp vs wvw) will make you worse in the other at timing the debuff which is a big deal. So it forces the player to have to pick just one mode of play.
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My wants:
- Unique PvP Skins that are skill oriented. This could be rewarded for leaderboard performance after a few tweaks to the system are made. Could be based off of performance at “season end” or just require reaching a certain rank once.
- When we encounter Arenanet organized/assisted tournaments like Pax or MLG, I would like some fancier in-game rewards to drool over, or at least be envious of. I keep forgetting this is a skin-reward based game. It doesn’t feel like it, at times.
- Lesser, but competitive money earning for winning streaks, based on MMR with 5 person tournament queuing, compared to dungeon running, or champion farming.
- Multi-use skins! Unlockable and withdrawable from the achievements tab.
This sums it up well.
Skins as rewards/ progression are totally viable and obviously what was intended for the spvp side of the game. I honestly dont understand why that went away.
Think about the old school ticket tournies, where paid tourny skins were rare and you knew they were achieved by being good.
Obviously dont bring back that broken system but recreate that feeling.
PVP only unique back items could be an easy way to start
Also, hitting something with your first Heartseeker after comboing – remain in stealth.
Hit something with your second or third Heartseeker through comboing – get revealed.
The first heartseeker is what is triggering your stealth, so it wont break stealth. Every other HS after that though is done while in stealth, so thats why it will cause revealed— its doing damage while already in stealth.
Im actually a fan of the game type, back when I was able to easily get into the intended mode of competition (team vs team 5 v 5). PPl focusing on solo q and hot join are what is making it go unappreciated.
So I guess the reason I can get out of that is the low “true” pvp population.
Reasons being:
No motivation / rewards
Specifically, no prestige rewards to shoot for (skill based titles or gear rewards)
No infrastructure to facilitate high level play (preset team, actual team ladder)
EDIT: the specific reason that I stopped was losing 3 straight matches to “Away from Keyboard” (the short version is blocked by forum???) in solo que and dropping from rank 500 to unranked. (I didnt even want a solo q leader board as I foresaw caring about it too much) This would be more of a symptom of the reasons listed above though.
(edited by rmBossa.4621)
So what I am understanding from your post is that you have not experienced coordinated team play seeing as you say it doesn’t exist and how you fail to bring up points showing how the game rewards mindless fighting. However, you have to realize just because you have not experienced high quality coordination does not mean it doesn’t exist. GW2 offers quite a bit in the way of coordination. From CC timing to positioning to healing timing to combo fields to veil coordination, you can do quite a bit in the game. However, if the player base fails to use it for team coordination that’s a different story and there is no problem with the game.
Anyways if you think that the combat mechanics are interesting enough you shouldn’t just try to downplay zerg fighting and saying “oh this is boring i don’t like it let’s get rid of it” and instead look on how it can be improved. Suggestions on what kinds of mechanics would make fighting more interesting is a much better way to make the game better and was the real purpose of this thread.
Starting from the bold is where I disagree.
I think it IS a problem with the game, because the game fails to promote this type of gameplay.
So back more towards the OP; ppl want Anet to discourage “zerging” in its truest sense, because what the majority of actual game play becomes is mind numbing. People want to experience that high level of team coordination, but until it is promoted by the game they will not get to. This is a result of most people latching onto the actual (whether intended or not) promoted style of play which is zerging, server blobs, etc.
One major issue is definitely the skill lag. Coordinated groups had to get bigger to counter the server blobs, most shoot for around 25-30 range and it is proven that this amount is sufficient to take out the “blob.” The problem is when the blob becomes so big that it causes server lag. Once again, the blob is benefiting from the game and not the coordinated group. Because server lag renders any coordination useless except for point and shoot with the ‘1’ key, which will always result in the group with higher numbers winning.
Gw2, the only game where people go “I hate skill lag so lets get rid of zerging” instead of “I hate skill lag so lets get rid of skill lag”
As long as people can use their skills, there is no problem with large scale fights.
This man has it right on.
I was implying that skill lag was also a major issue, and that it should be fixed itself. It contributes to why people want less zergs, if they literally cant fix it then promoting smaller groups is the next best thing (I would argue better)
So what I am understanding from your post is that you have not experienced coordinated team play seeing as you say it doesn’t exist and how you fail to bring up points showing how the game rewards mindless fighting. However, you have to realize just because you have not experienced high quality coordination does not mean it doesn’t exist. GW2 offers quite a bit in the way of coordination. From CC timing to positioning to healing timing to combo fields to veil coordination, you can do quite a bit in the game. However, if the player base fails to use it for team coordination that’s a different story and there is no problem with the game.
Anyways if you think that the combat mechanics are interesting enough you shouldn’t just try to downplay zerg fighting and saying “oh this is boring i don’t like it let’s get rid of it” and instead look on how it can be improved. Suggestions on what kinds of mechanics would make fighting more interesting is a much better way to make the game better and was the real purpose of this thread.
Starting from the bold is where I disagree.
I think it IS a problem with the game, because the game fails to promote this type of gameplay.
So back more towards the OP; ppl want Anet to discourage “zerging” in its truest sense, because what the majority of actual game play becomes is mind numbing. People want to experience that high level of team coordination, but until it is promoted by the game they will not get to. This is a result of most people latching onto the actual (whether intended or not) promoted style of play which is zerging, server blobs, etc.
One major issue is definitely the skill lag. Coordinated groups had to get bigger to counter the server blobs, most shoot for around 25-30 range and it is proven that this amount is sufficient to take out the “blob.” The problem is when the blob becomes so big that it causes server lag. Once again, the blob is benefiting from the game and not the coordinated group. Because server lag renders any coordination useless except for point and shoot with the ‘1’ key, which will always result in the group with higher numbers winning.
Dont see any problems with it.
Personally, my biggest concern is the fact that servers could stack all 3. Even if it goes according to plan the only time anyone would actually get all 3 buffs is if they completely out number the other 2 servers. So then what exactly is the point?
Just the 50 to all stats should be enough to keep the new capture points very active but not overwhelm weaker servers.
Again my personal belief is that no stat buffs are even needed (or wanted) and the addition of gaining actual PPT for stomping will be motivation enough.
Dont forget that with Ascended weapons the “weapon strength” itself is also increasing, which means its a lot more then just the difference in stats.
My goal is to eliminate the latter scenario. And I promise to do as much as I can to meet that.
Save us Devon Carver, your our only hope.
the ppt is strong in this one.
I can’t understand where the joy in fighting on ‘even’ terms is, the whole point of WvW is you can roll over singles, or you can get rolled over, and you don’t know when it’s going to happen.
I can tell you when it’s going to happen, without even looking.
If anet successfully bridges the gap and ppl starting forming teams from solo q and the pvp player base eventually starts to grow again, I think we will see a lot less QQ about conquest. Currently not many ppl actually play the true conquest (5 coordinated player team) and so of course their going to complain about it.
The real problem with Death match is the balance. It would be a whole new game type that anet would HAVE to try and balance because the QQ would be unimaginable. At least now if your class is UP you can at least make up for it some by playing smart with the objectives. Take away that objective and feel the true power of forum QQ.
Or maybe something where you can right click the buff to take it off and then you wont receive any sort of “orb buff” until a reentry to the zone/other zone.
That way a player or group of players can choose to fight on even grounds without disrupting the flow of the WvW map as a whole.
The problem with “interesting terrain” is it becomes too much about that specific spot and developing strategies for that mode. Which takes focus off the guilds comp working together and how well they actually fight as one.
Its kinda like the emerging argument of 15v15 vs 20v20. In 15v15 you have certain builds and strategies that are specifically for that format but they wouldnt work in open field WvW. In 20v20 your closely replicating how 2 guilds would square off in open field but with the format of a competitive balanced fight, which some would say is closer to the essence of what GvG is supposed to do.
Its really important that we try and remain true to the goal as the scene progresses, or decide if we even want to be.
just ma 2cp
10v10 < Least fun, boring in our personal opinion
15v15 < It is okay, but definitely not the excitement we are looking for
20v20 < We prefer this mostI find this scale odd honestly. Granted I prefer to play at the 5-8 level, so I am biased.
However as you add numbers to the size of group specific things occur:
- individual responsibility reduced
- mistake buffer by any one individual increased
- impact of loss of person reduced
- synergy between members reduced
- need for coordinated skill use reducedWhy does any of that lead to more excitement, seems like the opposite to me.
I understand other reasons for wanting to run 20v20 such as:
- we are a large guild and want to include as many people as possible
- we run a large group in WvW and want to mimic that setupI get those, makes sense to me, but excitement level… not really.
Dont disagree at all, but to try and answer your question:
The excitement comes from the unique competitive nature of GvGs, its different then small scale but trust me its there. There is a reason that one of the teams in the Tpvp championship being held at PAX is made up of players from a top GvG guild on EU (votf) Top notch competition brings in top notch players (Red Guard always an example)
You basically said how it applies to GvG though, “we run a large group in WvW and want to mimic that setup.” At the root of GvG we are trying to replicate how we would act in open field, I personally feel that some of the essence of it is lost in the new 15 v 15 meta as some of those builds/strategies would not last in open field. But to each their own.
Not to take anything away from what EP and NS do with 15 v 15, those guys are beast :P and im really looking forward to seeing how they implement those tactics in 20 v 20, maybe they’ll prove me wrong.
Why is it that I have to go broke if I want to play WvW but the PvE people this last few weeks have amassed enough cash to buy precursors? Change the supply camp claimers to champs and increase the quality drops in WvW.
It was done to inflate gold prices, meaning the gold > gem conversion becomes steeper, encouraging more people to pay actual $ for gems.
I don’t think we (GvG community) need a list of rules. Guilds on the ladder already know what the rules are and new guilds are being educated by vets. Ogros beginner guide video was short and to the point.
Theres nothing wrong with more ways to show newer guilds the ropes and more ways to encourage them to try it out. Ogros guide was amazing. And this would help too, especially now that the gvg site itself is gaining popularity.
Guilds that do this will on their own create a bad reputation. No need to black list them or anything of that sort.
Having a visible list will just accelerate this process. So those guilty cant just try and explain it away, but rather would be encouraged to participate competitively— and in turn become better themselves growing the scene even more.
— I hear a lot of High-tier guilds complaining no one wants to accept their challenges, so this could be some sort of solution to activate the scene even more.
A possible thought to this, instead of forcing a challenge for multiple reasons already brought up in the thread, instead make a challenge/accept history. Basically guild A has issued a 20v20 challenge to guild B and guild B declines the offer. Now the guild history of both guilds shows this record. This in no way punishes a guild with theoretical rating but instead challenges their reputation to stay active. If it would be possible and wouldn’t clutter the UI it may be nice to have a short 15/w (just an example) description for reasons ex. Driver was away, we do not 10v10, etc.
I like this idea. It hits the “dodging” guilds hardest because the base of the problem is their ego’s. They dont want to lose but whats worse then losing? People knowing their afraid of losing.
This is interesting, are there any videos from Agg doing GvG from a thieves PoV? Or would it be possible to have one made during one of your matchups?
Ill make a vid for our next match, hopefully we roll a good week and it can be against a top team for contrast. Theres a difference against well disciplined opponents, the positioning involved is so intense, I really encourage more ppl to get into the game mode.
Heres a vid i found tho from an EU thief from [INC]. Contrary to what I was talking about he runs 100% harass with s/p on their back line. The cleave on that set works well in GvG as you can see. But Im not too big on full harass setups as it can be countered and can leave your team a man down with you dead or not able to contribute anything. But the beauty of GvG is that it’s focused so much on your guilds comp as a whole, what can work for someone won’t work for another player or team.
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No thief PoV yet, but I can let you know if one ever gets made. There are only 2 of us :P
Which leads me to another point, thieves are pretty dependent on the comp for boons and condi cleanse. So if your guild’s comp is not set up correctly yet, it would most likely be best to roll warrior, guardian, ele until you can make the switch.
Build for mobility, every trait, and every single utility spot for it.
In GvGs stealth is absolutely a no go. Since stealth was meant to be a big part of the classes defense at first it would seem like there would be no place at all for thieves in GvG.
But there are ways to boost the other mechanic, mobility, to levels that can make you tanky enough to be a part of the melee train while still glass enough to dish out extreme aoe punishment.
The role in gvgs is not completely melee train but not fully caster backline either. Using your mobility you can be an excellent harasser (think poison cloud on enemy regroups) and completely shut down any oposing team’s harass player too. Use whatever off weapon set your comfortable with: s/d, d/d, d/p all good options.
Then retreat back to the train often to dish out amazing pressure on their melee via SB. The blast finishers for short bow are most effective MID fight not before the round starts which is a common misconception.
I cant really go into detail about specific build questions, but just know that thief can be a very effective class in GvG but you have to put in the work to get there.
bonus tip: get used to what the enemy team’s mesmer looks like, because the only time you should be stealing is taking that precious and wonderful plasma.
GvG already exists in sPvP lol. What I see in these videos is more like zerg vs zerg spamming skills on your opponents.
I don’t know if anyone can REALLY tell what exactly is going on in these fights. It seems like it is stick with the swarm and auto attack as much as possible.
GvG should be highly coordinated group of a few players in my opinion. And I agree with someone who posted earlier about how Guild Wars 1 did GvG. I don’t know if you can really call this guild vs guild because guilds already face each other in sPvP, and they are WAY more coordinated than this.
On that note, I think they need to have a Guild leader board so you can keep track of who wins matches. But it should be smaller groups of players. Not 20 vs 20 where no one can actually make distinct plays on purpose.
You haven’t watched anyone of these videos have you? Definition of a troll, be gone now troll.
FYI: many ppl who take place in GvGs are also active Spvp’ers (not that it matters at all) so be gone now
I think solo Q is converting a lot of hot join heroes, and motivating them to make the leap into tournies. Which will be great to finally get the casual population linked up with the true format of spvp. A game needs a clear linear form of progression for ppl to gauge themselves instead of:
hot join > try tournies and get stomped by premades > go back to hot join > quit
or
played since free tournie era > play tournies till burn out > quit
Hopefully, in time this will result in more ppl making the final leap into full team tournies.
Most of the current issues with spvp (mainly the competitive side like the new Solo q / leader boards) stem from a lack of population, with the current population being very jaded.
So now would definitely be time for incentives.
Ive always thought Anet missed a huge opportunity to do this through back items. If you look at all available back items every one is only obtained through extensive PvE play, with the exception of the guild banners; which to be blunt, noone is fond of in either sphere of the game. (also not including gem store as a viable method).
You could whip up some PvP exclusive back pieces and use rankings on the leader boards as the method for obtaining them. For example achieving top X% of all ranked players gives you access to certain ones. This would give the rewards a sense of prestige which is something very much lacking within the spvp community.
Currently skins no longer have this prestige value as the tourny skins are super easy to get, and the rank skins just prove how long you can withstand hot join. I believe the closest thing we have now is wearing a “Champion Legionnaire” title while playing another class. Doesnt cut it.
Eh, if an NA guild wants to get on the same level as the euro guilds, they should pay a visit to the euro servers.
Pretty much this.
Chris, YouTube guilds like Vii (Seventh Legion) and GH (Golden Horde), both on Piken.
Edited to add: Andrew, I think AGG could offer some nice competition, but I think they’d benefit a great deal if they went to a GvG-focused EU server for a month or two, just to see the other side of the fence and maybe pick up some new tricks. They’re pretty tough as is, but I think it’d be win-win for them.
The problem we face is that we are primarily PST based. Meaning that in EU we could only really night cap PvD— and due to work hours we’ve realized we could not even muster a roster if we did try and play during the day.
If it was a matter of just staying up later I would definitely be down for it. Curse you physics of time and space!!
NA’s problem is that even guilds who really could be contenders if they wanted are too reliant on their egos to try. This ultimately leads to their downfall and their are many guilds that are just shells of what they once were.
So any time an EU powerhouse makes a trip to NA it is totally worth it to watch the NA guild egos shrivel up and cry.
Agreed.
Only thing I would like more of is Devs owning QQ’ers in some good ol forum 1v1.
that stuff gets me going
Nice vid once again!
I like how you put NS on the map there, they def deserve it. Showing a resurgence of the GvG scene on NA in the lower “tiers” hopefully this time its here to stay.
Not “perma stealth” or invisible when you can see the fields on the ground.
The only disadvantage thieves have is a lack of stability. But as long as your timing dagger storm right and your group comp is built well you should be fine. (also steal from a mesmer every chance you get) You can make up the rest with your build.
With the right spec/gear you can fight well within melee range to be spamming cluster at your feet and hitting full aoe cap each go. The damage you dish out is matched by no other class. Keep in mind the true advantage to the blast finisher isnt ‘pre-stacking’ might before an encounter but all the aoe finishes you get mid fight buffing/debuffing the group around you.
Unless of course your talking about blobing megazorgs then why even ask? any class/weap would do. But even then trick shot is the best auto attack in the game so in skill lag your still winning the fight with that pro 1 spam.
This is awesome, had to bring it back to the top.
The Spvp community has put in a ton of work on its on with stuff like this and I believe that it was a major factor in Anet finally showing some love to them. So I think we def need something like this out there and maybe one day get some love for GvG and WvW as a whole.
/thumbs up
EDIT: it would really be awesome too if we could get a nod from an anet dev on the forum, or even join as a guest on one of the episodes, like with Spvp’s State of the Game.
Best thing to do few new thieves:
use whatever is your solo, roamer build. And always have a shortbow with flame sigil with you for when you want to zerg.
The culling fix and matchup change alone overshadow anything that has been done for Spvp. I spend the majority of my time in WvW and I still can admit this. Its about the quality of fixes not quantity, and Spvp is in a very bad spot.
A more constructive discusion would be spvp+wvw vs Pve in a game marketed as a pvp game.
NOTE: I am not suggesting that the WvW changes are satisfactory, they are also way too few.
Yeah this is the first time Ive missed SoS in a build, but only really notice it at the start of the match. If its really bothering me Ill just use steal to get that long swiftness and its usually back up in time to use it (going far point usually )
I actually was having trouble with other D/P thieves at first too, for the same reason— I was too used to the initiative regain from S/D. I try to not be the first one to powder>HS so they come out of stealth first and just immediately spam 1 > steal (with bask venom up) Usually stacking 2 stealths with HS will ensure this. Like old school D/D its the first thief to land an opener.
^ Yup Ive been using this D/P build for a lil while now. Been getting really good results with it.
Earlier in this thread I talked about how I didnt think the changes to Steal would make up for previous nerfs. All I can say is you really have to try it out to see its potential.
If you run with infiltrators signet that with the reduced CD on steal means you can consistently close ground and land backstabs.
The stun and boon hate on steal are really good to. The thing I had liked about S/D was its ability to bring down bunkers, and this brings this back on the table for dagger MH builds where before you wouldnt even think of de-bunking.
Especially against guardians now. Using steal and then the stolen mace item right after is always fun.
5. Furthermore, it would be counterproductive in any type of competition for a group to specifically alter their play before a match without any sort of advance warning.
Agreed, which is why I don’t understand why you would introduce something different from our first match at the last moment that potentially affected our strategy.
Since we are on agreement with this, and I am glad one of you at least was able to admit it…. perhaps we can get this thing rescheduled.
Thats the point I was making though. It was not “last moment” and its not “your strategy.” We have been using tonics whenever they are available, that is something we do, not specific to who we are fighting.
Perhaps it would have been best to express that TW meant for our GvGs to be a tournament style set. But I would expect that until this incident each GvG was to be treated as a separate GvG, or would you prefer us to revert back to the exact comp and strategies that we were using back when we had the first GvG? Of course not. Because GvGs are a reflection of what you try to accomplish as a group in WvW, and things change over time. In guilds with such high organization and planning, like TW, things often change very fast in their “personal meta.”
EDIT: Im just trying to clear things up that may not have been cleanly stated in my first post. I had no intention of posting more then once.
In regards to sigil stacking vs tonics:
Stat stacking sigils are against the “unwritten rules” because of how much they would disrupt the flow of GvG rounds. Because GvGs are supposed to be the utmost balanced fight you can get, there are 2 outcomes. Either everyone from both teams swap to stacking weapons and kills boars/spiders to get a full stack and then swaps back, before each and every round or each team agrees to have no stacks whatsoever. Because the former would take an absurd amount of time and disrupt the GvG as a whole, the unwritten rule is that you have no stacks.
Tonics on the other hand can be reapplied by just the click of a mouse.
(edited by rmBossa.4621)
From what I gather there was no explicit rule disallowing ghost tonics in the first one, if the second was to be played under the same rules ghost tonics would be allowed.
I disagree, but that is common with opinions.
But he makes a good point.
I have too much respect for TW to expect them to completly change an aspect of their strategy, last min, just so it falls more in line with a personal strategy. My point being that, if they were to continue the GvG, no aspect on their side would have been altered. Agg has used ghost tonics not just in GvGs but every time in WvW since Anet finally fixed them. Also, you can go back in our youtube channel many months ago and we have always used them. So you can see how we could have reservations about changing something we have always done mere minuets before a highly anticipated GvG. I believe this is the source of the misunderstanding, hopefully I can help to clear that up.
Ghost tonics were never seen as a way to score an unfair advantage, simply for the fact that everyone has access to them.
GvGs are based on a loose contract among like-minded guilds. So we have to rely on a sort of “unwritten rule” system. These rules address everything from not using “stat stacking” sigils all the way to the very spot in which GvGs take place. Not once have I heard or read about a guild specificaly requesting for Ghost Tonics not to be used. In fact, it has become common for guilds to use them though by no means is it required.
Perhaps gw2gvg.com should have a predetermined rule set for all guilds to adhere to. But it would seem it was expected that all guilds registered on the website would adhere to the “unwritten rules” already in place. And I’m sure anyone who has followed the “GvG scene” for any amount of time could tell you that ghost tonics are an accepted part of that.
Furthermore, it would be counterproductive in any type of competition for a group to specifically alter their play before a match without any sort of advance warning.
These are my observations as an individual and do not represent Aggression as a whole. My intention is more of a plea for the sake of GvGs, we need more of them— not less.
At no point did they say you had to do PvE to get these skins. Heck, thry didn’t even say you need X amount of points to unlock X skin.
For all we know, they could be unique PvP skins awarded with unique achievements, like 1000 tournament kills etc.
grrrr why cant they do something like that??
it would be so nice to have some level of prestige back in the mists. The closest thing we have now is having a “champion x” title on of a different class your not currently playing… lol