Guild Wars 2

Yes, thief is totally balanced and not a class that constantly abuses serious bugs. I’m also sure that it’s intended that a thief can stay permanently visually stealthed. That revealed icon is just a suggestion.

skinnyb.5920:

I die to every class every day while stealthed.

It takes like 5 hits to down me, I’m pure glass. If you can’t manage that, then L2P, cry more, etc.

^ This is the problem.

It’s not a l2p issue it’s a thief constantly exploits serious bugs issue.

How to fix thief in the short and long term

Short:
Increase revealed time.

It’s not doing its job at all right now due to culling. They’ll still be able to get in free hits before they load in, but at least they won’t be able to remain near perma-stealthed (visually).

Long:

Fix culling & reduce revealed time back to what it was before.

Thief is now fixed.

That’s all that is needed and the short fix could have been done easily ages ago.

holska.4127:

The statement that only crap loot drops is a bit exagerated. Yes if there’s a lot of low level enemies about you get crap drops, but they’re also weaker opponents. I’ve also had evenings where lvl 80 exotic and a few rares dropped for me in a playsession of 2 hours.
Of course there’s room for improvement which they also anounced they’re working on.

Not always true. Due to crooked scaling a lower level player can deal more damage than a level 80.

Lower levels can also man siege just as well as an 80.

If you try to kill a level 50 in the middle of a zerg of 80’s… he’s not going to be much easier to kill. This isn’t 1v1… this is WvW.

In few cases does the loot actually scale properly with the difficulty of killing the lower level player.

I also have NO control over other players joining into WvW before they are 80… so why am I being punished for their decision?

Korrigan.4837:

Aberrant.6749:

Korrigan.4837:

There are those adults among us, “Aberrant”, and I like to think it’s the majority, who don’t mind the “F” word or the “S” world, but still mind direct insults or very bad racist slurs. Those people turn off the filter, because they want to talk like adults with the other adults in their guild, but still don’t expect to have to face the “N” word or other similar racist and totally unneeded hate filled insults.
Apples and Oranges.

And yeah, I will report you for using the “N” word (or similar stuff). Without thinking twice.

It’s still bannable to even use the occasional profanity. Also I added a bit to my post about giving/taking offense and censorship… which you might want to read and ponder.

Except that ANet doesn’t care about what you do in private chat (aka guild chat and private messages).

Everyone has his own personal level of tolerance about profanity, but the ultimate judge is ANet… and they have very well defined rules about that. While I may let your “F” and “S” go and ignore them, someone else may report them, and you may still get punished… why? Because you broke the rules you agreed to when you started playing this game.

Want to curse? Keep it to friends, private and guild chat, or just to yourself verbally in real life. You have no right to force random people to endure your rudeness in this game, because the game rules forbid it. There’s no “if” or “but”. There’s only rules – you break them, you take the risk of someone reporting you and you being punished. Just like you may drive over the speed limit for years in real life and suddenly get caught and punished.

Just a jfyi… I’m not profane… but I have no problems with reading/hearing profanity. I’m simply stating the logical argument against all of this (which I agree with).

I know that A-net owns the game and bla bla bla… again… that doesn’t mean it’s just.

I would also love you to show me the tos/post where they say it’s ok to be profane in team/guild chat… since that doesn’t exist.

Korrigan.4837:

There are those adults among us, “Aberrant”, and I like to think it’s the majority, who don’t mind the “F” word or the “S” world, but still mind direct insults or very bad racist slurs. Those people turn off the filter, because they want to talk like adults with the other adults in their guild, but still don’t expect to have to face the “N” word or other similar racist and totally unneeded hate filled insults.
Apples and Oranges.

And yeah, I will report you for using the “N” word (or similar stuff). Without thinking twice.

It’s still bannable to even use the occasional profanity. So according to A-net it’s all apples.

Also I added a bit to my post about giving/taking offense and censorship… which you might want to read and ponder.

So now people are offended by blanks? Simply amazing and utterly redicilous. It’s perfectly fine for bleeping to be used instead of profanity on public tv. Do you choose to watch shows with bleeping and then write in to the TV networks? No, because that’s just silly. It’s the same thing when you report some one for using the filter.

If you choose the watch the tv show uncensored after a warning… is it then logical to complain about the non-bleeped dialogue? No. Again… that’s just silly.

Not to mention you’re playing a game where you are killing things. So you’re fine with the constant virtual genocide of people… but bad words. That’s just too far. GG.

Another funny thing (not ha ha funny, but wat funny) is that I can type in blanks and not need to worry about being banned. But if I curse and the game filters it I can… because of something some one else chose to do with their game which obviously causes the game to show profanity. So frak logic

Oh yea… I can also use nonsence words like frak, frell, shazbot, gorram, etc. and not need to worry about banned. Those are not profanity and not caught by the in game filter so… you’re seeing those words and can’t do a thing about it. Is that what you all want? Or would you prefer to encourage others to just use their filter and see nothing when people to use actual profanity.

+1 to my geek brothers who got the references :P

fellyn.5083:

If they can’t then maybe they don’t deserve the right to play the game and interact with people who don’t feel the need to insult others.

Why should the person who doesn’t think they have a right to insult others have to change their way of thinking? That is some seriously backwards logic.

Treat others as you want to be treated, and all that..

The word backwards offends me. It forces me to picture an ugly, hairy monkey. Please treat me as you want to be treated and do not use this combination of letters ever again. Thanks.

(If you missed the point of that it was to illustrate that offense is taken and not given. You can choose to be offended by anything. If you want censorship for things you are offended by but not everything everyone is offended by… which is everything… then that’s blatant hypocrisy.)

kratan.4619:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Banned-for-Inappropriate-Language/first#post1091437 Gaile Gray’s reply pretty much sums it up.

We know the rules.

That doesn’t mean we can’t voice our opinion that they aren’t just rules and explain our logic behind it.

Conner.4702:

Aberrant.6749:

Conner.4702:

Aberrant.6749:

So if you turn off the profanity filter… and see profanity… knowing that you might be offended by the profanity… which you just purposefully exposed yourself to… shouldn’t you take some personal responsibility for that? o.O

The profanity filter is not there so other people can just constantly swear. You say take personal responsibility well people that curse should take some first in my opinion. You are not alone with friends or family you are with strangers. It’s called acting civilized.

By turning off the filter you’re basically telling the game that you’re fine with seeing it. That was your choice. I can’t stop you from turning the filter off. You can easily stop me from showing you profanity with the filter check box (again.. enabled by default).

It’s kinda like if you were to watch a show that says viewer discretion advised and then having the show canceled because you decided to view it anyways and were offended/shocked/whatever.

-.-

Sorry no, having the profanity filter on or off has nothing to do with it. You act like a jerk in public you almost always will get repercussions for it. It’s the same here. Or are you going to say well why don’t put in some earplugs so you can’t hear me, because that is what you are saying.

The profanity filter is there to catch the off remark, not to give freebies to people.

Hardly the same thing. You don’t (by default) have something blocking these words from your ears. You have to add something yourself to have that happen… and then you can’t hear anything at all.

If the profanity filter was a 3rd party filter you had to add onto the game… and blocked ALL chat then you might have something there…

Conner.4702:

Aberrant.6749:

So if you turn off the profanity filter… and see profanity… knowing that you might be offended by the profanity… which you just purposefully exposed yourself to… shouldn’t you take some personal responsibility for that? o.O

The profanity filter is not there so other people can just constantly swear. You say take personal responsibility well people that curse should take some first in my opinion. You are not alone with friends or family you are with strangers. It’s called acting civilized.

By turning off the filter you’re basically telling the game that you’re fine with seeing it. That was your choice. I can’t stop you from turning the filter off. You can easily stop me from showing you profanity with the filter check box (again.. enabled by default).

It’s kinda like if you were to watch a show that says viewer discretion advised and then having the show canceled because you decided to view it anyways and were offended/shocked/whatever.

-.-

Have they said if they will scale up with you while you level… turn into level 90 (or whatever) weapons… or just be expensive shiney skins to transmute?

Not that I have one… just kinda been wondering this for a while.

fellyn.5083:

Aberrant.6749:

So if you turn off the profanity filter… and see profanity… knowing that you might be offended by the profanity… which you just purposefully exposed yourself to… shouldn’t you take some personal responsibility for that? o.O

Anyone who turns the filter off probably doesn’t care. The filter is there so people don’t have to see it if they don’t want to. It’s presence does not mean you get the green light from Anet to say whatever you want.

It’s there because anet can’t control what people say. Simple as that.

This sort of thing just leads to abuse by people who want to get some one banned. They’ll try to make some one mad hoping to provoke profanity and then report them for it. I’ve seen it done several times.

If this profanity is such a big deal to A-net then they should put in a filter which you can’t turn off. Many games have this. Then if you go around that filter on purpose you’ll get a warning or a ban.

Giving the people the ability to turn it off and then still report others for it and ban them for things the filter would have caught is just silly and easily abused.

Engineer

The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

^not saying this is even true… but that’s just what they say are going for with Eng.

So if you turn off the profanity filter… and see profanity… knowing that you might be offended by the profanity… which you just purposefully exposed yourself to… shouldn’t you take some personal responsibility for that? o.O

Just a jfyi… vs a mesmer… if you blind/block/dodge their illusions when they are summoned (phantoms and clones) don’t spawn at all. So there is one class where multi-hitting attacks are totally countered by a single blind/block/dodge. Gg dev’s imbalanced rules… gg…

Hopefully this is what you’re looking for

They posted this a while back… I lost the link to it though >.<

Class balance philosophies
…
Warrior
We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Guardian
The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

Ranger
The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Thief
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

Mesmer
Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

Ele
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

Necro
The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

Not as much detail as yours had about thief… but that’s what they are aiming for with each class.

If you choose to turn off the profanity filter (enabled by default) then why should the other player be banned? o.O

However, in the case where things that aren’t things normally blocked by the filter but are just very “inappropriate”… or when some one goes out of their way to avoid the filter… those instances I understand and agree with giving a temp. ban for.

You can still make gold/karma doing those 2 shelter missions in orr with mf gear. They both have many large waves of mobs that everyone downs extremely quickly.

They also give a lot of xp. You can take 50 skill points to make mystic weapons and sell them for 10g ea.

If they are on break you can go farm the nodes that are around there. You can easily get 2/3 harvesting tools for karma from two of the nearby karma vendors. Previous zones have easy access mithril mining picks for karma. The only ones you’ll need to buy with gold are for the ori mining nodes.

Don’t like having to farm? You could always learn to use the TP to make gold. Find items that have low $ orders vs the retail cost and flip them. Just make sure you factor in the 15% TP sales fee.

Craft items that are worth more than their base mats (gw2spidy will tell you which ones for your crafts). But the mats with orders and sell those on the TP to max those profits.

You can then take the gold from doing that and buy whatever you were trying to farm.

Hopefully this helps solve your problems.

Along the way you also get a decent back item and several weapons with +5% damage sigils in them (although the weapons themselves are greens). If you salvaged them with a nice kit you would have an 80% chance at getting them out for your next gear. They give you two weapons with these in them iirc.

Story missions also give a lot of xp. That part was good enough for me pre-80.

If all that plus an item worth 2g (that’s what the morning star is selling for right now) for the final one reward isn’t good enough… then sorry I guess : /

I really don’t see the big problem.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Aberrant.6749:

This is a bad responce to some one having issues. Instead of just telling them not to play, maybe try to understand their POV.

Dung’s are boring after a few runs of the same thing… seriously… nothing changes. You can beat most of them in greens with no traits. They really are that mind-numbing.

WvW has ONE type of gear you can get with a LOT of badges. Most classes/players don’t want pure pwer/vit/toughness… and to boot you’ll get more badges from the kittening jumping puzzle than you will from playing in actual WvW. That’s messed up.

People don’t like to have to grind PvE for gold. Again… It’s mind numbing to kill a million trash mobs… even worse than doing a dung.

The problem is that all these things wind up being more like work. You have to do one of them over and over and over until it’s mind numbing. If you’re given the choice between killing 1,000 boars and 1,000 bears… that’s not really a whole lot of freedom >.>

If the sort of token rewards we got from doing these things were all the same… then we would have freedom.

My solution was to just skip it all and figure out how to make gold without having to do any of these things so that I COULD play anyway that I wanted.

Literally everything you do will advance you towards obtaining exotic gear. Except spvp and keg brawl.

If out of everything you could do to get exotic gear you can’t find something you enjoy doing, this isn’t the game for you.

Since you missed the point, I’ll state it in a very simple way.

It’s not that people necessarily don’t like doing these things, it’s that they don’t like having to repeat the same exact things over and over. Some players like doing dung’s some times… but not the same ones they’ve already done before.

To get gear out of them, you need to keep repeating them.

That isn’t freedom. That’s a grind.

Telling people to just quit instead of listening to them and trying to see from their POV isn’t reasonable at all… so hopefully that’ll help you understand better where some players are coming from

Brannoncyll.1978:

Unfortunately those of us who dislike dungeons and instead spend most of our time in WvW, you know…. actually fighting the enemy rather than just wasting a BG slot playing Super Mario 2012, have no chance of getting exotics.

I agree… they need to remove the badges from the jumping puzzle and put them into actual WvW.

They also need to add more than just power/vit/toughness as an option for WvW gear. Not every single WvW-er wants to be a tank.

Khristophoros.7194:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

TonySu.7942:

How do you get the skill point item (crystal of philo)?

That’s actually the main issue I’ve been having, I’m constantly low on skill points.

I guess just do some map completion.

I have more skill points on my main than I know what to do with. It seems like I just gained a ton of extra exp playing the game normally. Maybe it’s because I don’t go for many things that require those skill point items.

What is it you need so many of those for? I’ve only needed them for an ascended back item so far.

You get 1 skill point every time you max your xp bar once you’re 80.

If you have skill points you’re not using, you can convert them to gold via the exotic mystic forge weapons. They take 5 of each of the normal mats for an exotic (eg 5 ori blades/hilts etc.) 30 mystic coins (or 50 for just the 1h sword for some reason) and 1 eldrich scroll (50 skill points each from the npc by the forge). Those weapons sell for about 9-10g each. That’s quite a bit of profit over the base mats.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_weapons

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I mentioned this in the post, please read the original post before commenting.

By saying this I presume you mean that you agree that your title was misleading. In the future don’t make misleading titles when you post. This will cut down on the number of people upset after reading your post. But it seems you kinda expected that with the whole I’ll report you thing.

Thanks for trying to help the community and I hope you receive and listen to more constructive criticism so you can learn how to improve your posts in the future ^^

Nayru.4537:

Very good post. Agree with everything. You should make a thread it’d be better than this one!

Thanks

I would go into more specifics, but my worry is that if I put out specifics about the ways that I’ve figured out how to do things… that I’ll just be shooting myself in the foot… and have to enter a dung or farm Orr (shudders).

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Graill.8596:

OP, you base your argument on Farming and grinding, something no one wants to do. I do not consider running a dungeon more than once “Fun”, you might because you may be “Programmed” to think this is normal, to repeatadly run dungeons to get items, to me this is foolish and a mechanic of developers.

In the end you need lots of gold no mater how you state you get it in this game to get anything.

I have listed SEVERAL different methods to obtain gear. If that STILL isn’t enough for you, then this isn’t the game for you. You can do ALMOST ANYTHING in this game and you will make progress towards gearing up. You can run around doing dynamic events, you can play WvW, you can do dungeons, you can explore for the hell of it.

Yea, you can’t sit around spamming map chat in lions arch while occasionally alt+tabbing to the forums to complain and make progress on gearing up, too bad, so sad, deal with it.

This is a bad responce to some one having issues. Instead of just telling them not to play, maybe try to understand their POV.

Dung’s are boring after a few runs of the same thing… seriously… nothing changes. You can beat most of them in greens with no traits. They really are that mind-numbing.

WvW has ONE type of gear you can get with a LOT of badges. Most classes/players don’t want pure pwer/vit/toughness… and to boot you’ll get more badges from the kittening jumping puzzle than you will from playing in actual WvW. That’s messed up.

People don’t like to have to grind PvE for gold. Again… It’s mind numbing to kill a million trash mobs… even worse than doing a dung.

The problem is that all these things wind up being more like work. You have to do one of them over and over and over until it’s mind numbing. If you’re given the choice between killing 1,000 boars and 1,000 bears… that’s not really a whole lot of freedom >.>

If the sort of token rewards we got from doing these things were all the same… then we would have freedom.

My solution was to just skip it all and figure out how to make gold without having to do any of these things so that I COULD play anyway that I wanted.

Dante.1508:

So “play the way you want” has been totally dropped from this game and changed to “Farm dungeons 24/7 to get end game gear”?

Sounds very much like another MMO 99% of the population seems to have come from…

I agree if you want to enjoy content outside of the dungeon grind you must buy Gems to make Gold, sadly its pretty simple and not real fun..its not even a mmo reborn every Free to play MMO made works like this game..

Or you could learn how to use the TP to make gold for you… buy things with low cost orders vs. the “retail” price-> ? -> profit. I’ll leave you to figure out the ? (there are many many ways).

So you can use your brain or your wallet. Your choice.

Long post… but worth the read… I promise.

This OP’s title is misleading and simply isn’t true. You’ll need gold at some point… even if you do dung’s… you might not need to buy gold… but you’ll certainly need a decent amount of it.

The major cost that seems to have been forgotten… runes. Yes you can get some pretty rubbish ones from the dung’s themselves for free (if you’re lucky). Orbs are an option but are inferior to good rune sets. Lets be honest… to be optimally geared… sorry… but you’ll have to spend some gold… and they’ll probably run you a couple gold… each.

Also you’ll need some gold to get some exotic necks/earrings… don’t try to farm the mats yourself… it’ll take you quite a while to get all 5 of the same type of orb you’ll need… for just one of your jewelries. You can get Power/vit/tough jewelry from pvp, but that’ll take ages and those are the only stats you can get. Then you’ll still need to get something to put inside of the slot on them. It’s far easier and better to just get the gold and get exactly what you want.

You can get the ecto’s for the jewelry from salvaging 68+ rares (which you’ll need gold to buy unless you get lucky on your daily and get a free 25 stack of black lion kits… but that’s pretty kitten rare). Dung’s might provide enough rares to salvage, but if you’re not lucky…

Sigils… you can get some 5% damage ones from your story quest items (they are in some of the greens they give you near the end)… so you’ll need to buy some more nice kits to try to get them out. If you more than those… or you’re unlucky and you don’t get the sigils out with your kit… you’ll need to buy some.

You’ll also need some gold for your trait books.

Protips…

Use orders to buy everything. Don’t pay “retail”

Don’t sell things at a loss. Make sure you’re at least getting something decent over NPC cost (the TP will tell you the projected profit).

Do not fill orders unless it is very close to the “retail” price. Instead undercut the lowest seller by 1 copper.

Some level 80 crafted items (including exotic jewelry) cost for more than would cost you to get the mats and make yourself… other final products cost less than the mats it took to make them. Check gw2spidy to see which way is less expensive.

While leveling up buy blues that cost 1c over npc price. Update them regularly. Npc them after… and you’re out all of 1c/item. Greens aren’t superior for that many levels and cost much more. This will help you save karma for your karma gear later if you choose to do that as well. Note Iirc… Karma gear has limited in its selection of stats on the gear. There are certain stat combinations you just can’t get from Karma gear (such as knight’s gear stats).

Try to use karma to buy your gathering tools. Specific heart NPC’s sell them for karma. This is one of the few ways left of turning karma->gold without a massive karma loss and not much gold gain.

If you’re trying to save $… don’t do crafting. You’ll lose a lot of potential gold just on making those inscriptions vs. just selling the raw mats until you’re pretty far into the profession. Even at 400 most things will still be a net loss or just break even.

The items you get from that token sell on the TP for 1g+

They have some nice skins/models on them

This is what happens when you don’t region lock servers. It would be a lot more fun if people in the same regions were only fighting people in their own region. That way we would have more peak gameplay times lining up vs. some one always being vastly out numbered. I can’t think of many times where one side in this hasn’t had that buff… that oh so powerful mf/xp buff. I’m not blaming or upset at any players, it’s not your fault what so ever. Hopefully it’ll be something that’s dealt with with the Feb patch.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Miku.7156:

Megaborax.4795:

I don’t even get why this is an issue…thieves have a very short window of invis unless they spec for it and take all their available ability slots as some form or another of invis… This is sort of like someone saying conditions keep killing me, I don’t think someone should be able to lay more than one type of condition at a time on someone else…

Really no disrespect meant by my comment but it really doesn’t sound like there is any thought of balance involved just someone griping about a thief that killed them…

There are plenty of ways to foil thieves, and they’re pretty easy to kill once you lock them down.

Pay more attention, balance restored…

You are probably one of the thiefs who dont know how to permastealth, if you dont know how to do it then dont know why you are even posting and if you do permastealth then you needed some moral lessons from your parents as no one will see funny to been killed by someone you cant see.

Actually thieves being able to perma stealth is a myth. You will see them pop out real quick and then go back into stealth. No thief in game can stay perma stealthed for an infinite amount of time unless they are completely traited and have every single stealth utility and even then they are revealed for a very short time. If you seriously die to a thief that is completely traited and utilited to stealth that is extremely sad.

Actually stealthed… that’s true you can not be actually stealthed permanently.

VISUALLY stealthed is another thing altogether though… and that’s what players are normally talking about. They can try tab targeting… but tbh… that’s not a reliable way to deal with the problem.

Nakoor.1980:

pot.6805:

Nakoor.1980:

pot.6805:

Losing SM is no big deal for us, we own SM 95% of the time every week.

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make, but thanks for trying. I was just curious as to the fight in TC’s lord room in EB last night.

No clue, I wasn’t there. Could have been a tactical mistake by the commander there, who knows. They can happen to the best of commanders.

How disappointing…my curiosity will never be satisfied it seems.

That was epic. We were able to hold them in the lords ring and whittle them down after their initial massive golem rush. Most of us wound up with some decent repair bills after… but it was soooooo worth it xD

Thief isn’t strong, but rendering bug makes them VERY strong.

It’s funny/messed up right now… since the revealed debuff doesn’t last long enough for the thief to actually be revealed.

Fix this kinda rubbish and they’ll be balanced.

RedOwl.7496:

So why are there so many thieves running around apparently able to play Rambo? Lots and lots of thieves running around solo. Why is that? Why is that fair?

Why do they NOT have to run in small and large groups like every other class?

Ele’s don’t either with how much movement they get…

Many classes can tank a small->med sized zerg for a good distance when plaid/specced/geared right. I do it often on my guard and he’s not even a bunker guardian.

Thieves do it the best though… I agree… but they also sacrifice for being able to do this the best… can’t add as much to a zerg vs more party friendly classes which wind up making far more of an impact.

FourTwenty.4268:

very possibly. you could be the uber god of thief pvp and no one would know. . .or care lol

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game-shows/massive-dps/

is a video you can watch where they talk about the glass cannon backstab thief build, and say “This setup puts out MASSIVE amounts of DPS but takes a lot of skill execute properly”

but as i said before. you can continue to be delusional if you want, you’re only making yourself look bad

Bring that DD burst at me on my guard and I’ll tear it to itty bitty bits. DD burst is a FOOS build/strat.

The OP of that vid also apparently doesn’t even know what DPS is vs Burst. He’s running around killing people who are acting like grazing cattle… So yea… I would trust him… lol….

Learn to dodge when the Mesmer summons illusions… and the illusions don’t appear at all. This also works with blocks and blinds.

Kill any misc illusions that pop up due to your own errors.

Grats! You can now shut down any Mesmer. Yes… it really is that kitten simple.

Alarox.4590:

Aberrant.6749:

Alarox.4590:

Aberrant.6749:

GS is far from OP… other than vs trash mobs…. and that’s just trash anyways, so I don’t count that for very much. Gs is in need of some tweaking to improve it imo.

Hammer is the opposite… I would be against removing/changing any of the current skills on the hammer. Especially mighty blow. Dealing with a slower attack speed seems like a l2p issue more than anything.

Edit: Maybe the problem is what perspective you’re coming from. In PvE the Hammer is fine, but in PvP it’s a whole different ballgame.

L2P to partially compensate yeah, but any Guardian who has spent a couple dozen hours with it knows all the tricks and tactics. It doesn’t change the fact that you have to compensate in many situations due to the design.

I played with the Hammer from 2-80 and for about 1-2 months after, constantly. After mastering all the other weapons I realized that I learned to deal with the ‘1’ chain rather than actually enjoying it like I do with the rest of the weapon.

And yeah, GS isn’t OP, just effective.

I play WvW more than any other game mode… and use Hammer the vast majority of the time. From 1-80 I used a gs to level with… and in PvP I used to use a GS for the AH + Vigor heals but that’s rubbish now.

Hammer is great in PvP and PvE once you learn to compensate for the slow 3rd attack. The 3rd (which as others have stated) puts down the symbol regardless if you hit or not… and is easy access to aoe retal… retal is one of the best buffs in PvP… Hammer just gives you so many tatical options.

I’m leaning towards it being opinion for the most part, for or against the Hammer design.

It does seem to be one of those love it or hate it type of things hahahahaha

Alarox.4590:

Aberrant.6749:

GS is far from OP… other than vs trash mobs…. and that’s just trash anyways, so I don’t count that for very much. Gs is in need of some tweaking to improve it imo.

Hammer is the opposite… I would be against removing/changing any of the current skills on the hammer. Especially mighty blow. Dealing with a slower attack speed seems like a l2p issue more than anything.

Edit: Maybe the problem is what perspective you’re coming from. In PvE the Hammer is fine, but in PvP it’s a whole different ballgame.

L2P to partially compensate yeah, but any Guardian who has spent a couple dozen hours with it knows all the tricks and tactics. It doesn’t change the fact that you have to compensate in many situations due to the design.

I played with the Hammer from 2-80 and for about 1-2 months after, constantly. After mastering all the other weapons I realized that I learned to deal with the ‘1’ chain rather than actually enjoying it like I do with the rest of the weapon.

And yeah, GS isn’t OP, just effective.

I play WvW more than any other game mode… and use Hammer the vast majority of the time. From 1-80 I used a gs to level with… and in PvP I used to use a GS for the AH + Vigor heals but that’s rubbish now.

Hammer is great in PvP and PvE once you learn to compensate for the slow 3rd attack. The 3rd (which as others have stated) puts down the symbol regardless if you hit or not… and is easy access to aoe retal… retal is one of the best buffs in PvP… Hammer just gives you so many tatical options.

Hammer.

Protection + Short CD blast finisher/aoe/leap (gives aoe retaliation from the protection symbol) + Roots in a line + Knockbacks (with one of the most satisfying sounds in the game) + RoW <- only part that needs fixing with people being able to get out of it so easily atm… but I think that’s more due to a bug in how things operate and will be fixed at some point.

GS is far from OP… other than vs trash mobs…. and that’s just trash anyways, so I don’t count that for very much. Gs is in need of some tweaking to improve it imo.

Hammer is the opposite… I would be against removing/changing any of the current skills on the hammer. Especially mighty blow. Dealing with a slower attack speed seems like a l2p issue more than anything.

I use the cof hammer personally and it’s ok… when you pull it out it has little flame jets that make it look a bit turbo-powered (goes well with my red little asura guardian)…

Magmaton is a good skin. +1

My issue with The Briny Deep is that because of placement it looks odd on your back and it looks odd again when you swing it. They should have just increased the size on it all around imo. The JP Anchor has a long handle but an oddly short top.

Hammer skins in this game generally just suck : /

Alarox.4590:

Make the 3rd hit trigger faster and reduce damage to compensate proportionately.

Same DPS, more effectiveness.

Wouldn’t keep it balanced as you would have more protection + aoe retaliation (mighty blow) uptime.

Seriously just leave it alone. It’s our best 2h weapon. Yea it’s a little slow to balance it out… but it’s nothing you can’t compensate for with practice. This is very much a l2p issue.

Equal skill level 1v1?…

Yes if they are glassy, no if they are even semi-tanky.

Don’t expect to get away from a good guard easily either. I have no problems stopping thieves from stealthing and getting away on mine.

If they are using a GS… they’ll have retaliation and binding blade will still hit and pull if you are stealthed. (Tbh this guard weapon is the least of your worries)

If they are using a hammer they’ll have protection, short cd leap/aoe, root, knockback, and ring of warding.

Scepter – roots & short cd aoe attack

1h sword – teleports

1h mace – heals & blocks with a strong counter-attack after

Shield – protection, knocks back (and out of shadow refuge) and heals

Focus blinds, regens, blocks

So… guards have access to heals/roots/knockbacks/protection/regen/retal without even getting into the virtues/utilities/traits… which makes it far harder still for a thief when you factor those in…

Lots and lots of stuff that can ruin a theif’s day very quickly.

Jericho.4521:

Depends how both are built, really. As a condition thief, I’ve never had trouble with any type of guardian, but I could see how a glassy burst thief would be pretty much unable to kill a bunker guard.

This is only somewhat true… most guards know they are most vulnerable to condition damage and take some utilities/food (if in WvW)/misc other stuff to help deal with that.

I find it pretty easy to mitigate condition dmg vs. a thief on mine with smite condition alone… as I’m usually not dealing with a ton of different conditions from a condition thief (unlike something like a necro… it’s mostly just stacking of bleed damage).

As a theif 1v1… guards are not your prey. Do not mess with guards solo. Go find a nice hunter or something instead…

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Karma Crimzin.5079:

Read the Altruistic Healing guild and it tells you about speeding up the animation by using dodges

That doesn’t actually make you attack any faster. It just gives you an interrupted dodge to burn endurance for purposes of triggering Selfless Daring/Elusive Power.

So unfortunately, yeah, the hammer auto is very slow. There really isn’t anything that can be done about it since that’s just the way it is; if it was any faster it’d be too strong due to how powerful the symbol you get is, relative to other auto-attacks (even the symbol itself actually kinda sucks as far as symbols go). That’s why I support making the symbol the second skill and giving us something other than Mighty Blow for the third auto, so we can get a proper symbol and a decent auto-attack at the same time.

It wouldn’t be quite as bad if using other skills didn’t interrupt the auto chain’s progression, too. Then again I think that’s just a universal design issue and not a fault of the hammer specifically.

I would be 100% against removing mighty blow from the hammer or removing the symbol from the chain. MB is a Blast finisher + short leap + aoe attack… on a short cd… the symbol doesn’t root you when you “cast” it like the GS one (aka why that skill is rubbish)… and you want them to take MB away and give us another rubbish symbol that I’m sure they would also root us?!

Are you kitten serious?

It’s fine as is, just learn to deal with a slightly longer attack string. The symbol is awesome for protection + AoE retaliation via mighty blow. I’m willing to pay auto attack speed as a price for that to keep it balanced.

The only thing that needs to be fixed on hammer are the bugs with RoW. Otherwise don’t try to fix something that isn’t broken.

Harbinger.8637:

AH still works fine

If by “fine” you mean heals for far far less than before yes…

Ah is all of 69 + 0.01 x healing per boon… HIGHLY dependent on you having other people close around you since the nerf.

Meditations – 1960 + 0.1 x healing per meditation… ZERO dependency on having other people around you. One is on a 16s cooldown when traited, removes a condition, and deals aoe damage. JI is also one of the guardian’s best utility skills and is a meditation. That 1,200 range teleport + stunbreak + burning aoe is amazing.

No contest there for me after the nerf.

I see many thieves just go P+P/SB for dung’s… and in AC there are mobs that’ll knock you down and nom on you to death unless you’re a pretty heavy tank or are able to use something to break the knockdown. If you want to use mele as a thief in a dung, learn to dodge/blind well.

rancidstick.2704:

LOCO.1785:

28 pages of baseless QQ.

The only problem with thieves is the way culling affects them.

Fix culling and you’re well on your way to culling the tears too.

That is a bunch of crap as evident by the lack of 28 page threads complaining about any other class.

He’s right tbh…

Until they fix culling, increase the reveal debuff time to prevent permanent/near permanent (visual) invis. After they fix culling, switch it back. All of this could have been stopped months ago with a very quick fix – . -

Thief is now balanced and the rest of the issues that people have are just l2p issues.

Note Scrubs always will complain about these FOOS classes… and that says nothing about the balance of the game.

Any class can get the jump on someone, thieves are the only ones that can leave when they want without being seen.

Mesmer can too…

Redscope.6215:

Ele at the end of the video is not a nub, by any means.

I disagree with that… anyone that sits there and just soaks up unload damage like that is a noob. Other than when she tries to run away, she doesn’t dodge once. This isn’t WoW. Learn to dodge or get used to dying.

This is my issue with unload thieves…

>sees some one use unload <- very obvious
>dodges <- long cast time gives you plenty of time to do this
>damage mitigated to laughable numbers & lots of ini lost

If you watch the vid… these people don’t seem to know how to dodge worth beans.

No offense meant to the OP, just my 2 cents on the weapon set.

Also head shot is worth it’s cost in team fights (not so much 1vs). Wonderful skill to interrupt someone a short while (skills/heals/utilities/elites). It’ll also interrupt stomping.

Problem… thieves constantly abuse a rendering bug to remain (visually) stealthed.

Solution:

Increase revealed time to force them to be visible more

Fix rendering

(Pick one or both)

Thief is now fixed.

Also few will continue to play thief because they can’t abuse a bug that so many rely on. Most will re-roll as 100b wars or DD eles… (depending on if they’ve nerf vapor form on down yet or not).

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Do you guys realize in every one of these thief threads its the same exact thing? Give it a rest already. I don’t know how you people even read through this stuff.

I’ll keep occasionally posting about issues until they dealt with. Don’t want the dev’s to think we’ve forgotten about them :P

Feel free not to enter and post in these threads yourself if you don’t like them though ^^

You do not get badges of honor from doing WvW.

You get them from doing the jumping puzzle. L2 jump or L2 use a mesmer portal.

I REALLY wish the opposite was the case… but this is pretty much how it is : /

yertle.5837:

In my experience, culling really isn’t an issue except in busy areas – ie if you’re one of the 5 people on that half of a borderlands, there really is no problem. There may be caching issues complicating it as well, but I have had plenty of duels in empty areas where people can instantly react to me leaving stealth.

That’s not the normal experience. I’ve seen it from both sides (as a theif and as other classes). There is always a delay between when you come out of stealth and when you appear. Yes it’s longer in busy areas, but the delay always exists.

What the other players may be doing (and I do) is try to watch for the black swirl and try to tab target. However, tab targeting has its own issues, which can be easily exploited. You are also still (visually) invis and that can also be easily exploited as well… if I know my opponent is reacting to the black swirl I can easily use that to bait/misdirect.

Increasing the reveal time would mitigate this by forcing the thief to be visible for at least some period of time before being able to re-stealth. I know many thieves abuse this and know the (aprox) time that it takes for them to be visually apparent… like with p/d it’s about the time that it takes to use 2 auto attacks then re-stealth to be perma or near perma (visually) invis. This is obviously not how thief is supposed to operate and something needs to be done NOW since this has been a problem for months.

Is it an ideal fix? No. Would it be a permanent fix? No. Is it a fair fix that addresses the issue? Yes.

yertle.5837:

Aberrant.6749:

Anet balances for top end players, not mid-low.

Thief and Warrior are FOOS classes. They can be build for one thing. Learn to counter their one thing they are built for and it’s GG.

Rendering is an issue right now though… I agree… and should be dealt with right now in some way. It’s been months and nothing has been done to counter it while they fix it. That’s redicilous.

Increase the reveal time until it’s dealt with… then you can lower it back down once it is. Easy to do, and the impact of the problem is decreased.

Saying don’t nerf thief until rendering is fixed is rubbish. You balance the game that you have now based on what’s happening now… not for how it’ll be in several months when this rendering is finally fixed.

Going at it like this implies that rendering is an issue across the board, in all situations. It isn’t.

When isn’t rendering an issue in wvw lol? Oh those oh so hard NPC’s… can’t deal with them with slightly longer reveal… /sarcasm

Anet balances for top end players, not mid-low.

Thief and Warrior are FOOS classes. They can be build for one thing. Learn to counter their one thing they are built for and it’s GG.

Rendering is an issue right now though… I agree… and should be dealt with right now in some way. It’s been months and nothing has been done to counter it while they fix it. That’s redicilous.

Increase the reveal time until it’s dealt with… then you can lower it back down once it is. Easy to do, and the impact of the problem is decreased.

Saying don’t nerf thief until rendering is fixed is rubbish. You balance the game that you have now based on what’s happening now… not for how it’ll be in several months when this rendering is finally fixed.

They said a long time ago they wouldn’t be adding in anything to change your race (and have repeated it multiple times).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Request-Race-Change/first#post411251