Guild Wars 2

I think if the AoEs were just slightly modified to be slightly larger so they could overlap, it would fix my concerns that it looks like it will be easy to avoid because of the fire field circle gaps. In other words, change the 120? radius to 180 radius for each of the 5 circles (and maybe add a 6th circle so that it has a 1200 range).

Number of targets will likely go down as stated in the PoI. There would be too many whiners on the WvW side if it changed the zerg stack for defense mentality.

Defense/Discipline/Berserker for me.

Good adrenaline gains with the core condition removal from Defense and Stun breaking from Berserker and then add Fast Hands (and more Adrenaline gains) tied to a higher use of Burst skills via Versatile Power.

In PvE, the GM traits of Defense (Rousing Resilience) and Berserker (Eternal Champion) every single time you use the Elite on a 20s cooldown, Head Butt is too good to miss with a no internal cooldown on RR. An extra 1000 toughness plus 100 Power from Armored Attack makes it a suitable damage enhancement. The extra 1000 near-on-demand toughness means that more emphasis can be placed gear-wise on power/precision as well (and let’s be honest, allows for even sloppier play).

In and outside of PvE, I fully expect that Always Angry will become a staple for many Warriors similar to Fast Hands. And it’s mainly needed because of the Adrenaline nerfs back in September 2014.

The torch is a try it to find out kind of thing. I have a general feeling that the cast time with those cooldowns are going to feel too long. I’d prefer a cast time reduction but maybe Anet/Roy will swap 4 and 5 after the beta feedback which might make more balance sense. The range on Blaze Breaker is just … odd.

It doubles the length of the aura applied on a leap finisher through a combo field.

i.e. Lay down Longbow F1 Combustive Shot to generate a fire combo field, swap to sword, use Savage Leap and an aura will be applied. This aura will be double in duration with the Powerful Synergy trait.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Manarain.7940:

The problem with “just” lowering the energy costs is that it doesn’t promote active game play. Comparing Revenant to Thief, (I know it’s two completely different worlds) every single trait that effects Initiative is for initiative gain (not initiative loss or a reduction on the amount of initiative used). If they lowered just 1 skill on thief to use less initiative the entire class would have to be re-worked because that is the basis for that professions skills. To say that you want to reduce the energy costs is just like saying that we should reduce initiative. I firmly believe that any changes that will be made to energy should promote Energy Gain rather than energy loss because anything less (at least to me) would make the class seem ashamed of it’s profession mechanic rather than using it as part of the class’ charm

Hmm. That’s a good point. I would like to see some skills/traits that help to promote Energy Gain too myself.

The problem is that these skills/traits would then become “required” and ultimately force specific builds as oppose to being freeform. The mechanic should really be baseline or if implemented, needs to be broad and wide across all trait lines.

Maybe instead of removal, Resistance boon should just be more common than on just in Demon Stance with one ability. Example, give Replenishing Despair a 3s Resistance boon with a 10s ICD.

Then there is some opponent counterplay.

So everyone runs Glint/Jalis Power or Glint/Mallyx Condition (stays in Mallyx) … great. In PvE, it’s Glint/Shiro…neat.

Ventari remains garbage. woot.

Hint, make Legend swap condition removal (and stun break) baseline. Problem solved.

Honestly, Revenant feels a lot like Warrior on release with huge problems dealing with every condition in general and a couple of very key/required utilities in order to actually function. The difference is Revenant must take specific Legends in order to get those needed utilities.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I think the easiest, and possible best solution, is to just reduce the energy costs on some skills, be it weapon or utility, and no energy requirement on heals.

My biggest concern of doing too much is that Roy will have longer cooldowns in place to balance it, and I’d personally hate that.

My thought is make the first use of the ability cost -0- energy based on standard cooldown timers of similar abilities. The Revenant than has the option to use that same ability, it costs energy just slightly more than now. Healing skills would need to be adjusted to a -0- energy cost and equivalent cooldown times as other classes.

Killyox.3950:

I disagree with OP. Mostly because I dislike getting energy while swapping. It more or less FORCES player to swap every time you can to maximize benefit.

^ This

Because of the “forced” energy swapping to maximize energy gain in the only way possible for the Revenant, you also encourage very specific legend combinations that can deal with stun break/condition removal in each of those Legends.

Revenant is basically being made into cookie-cutter without free-form builds which other classes can always achieve by always taking “x” utility and/or heal ability.

Also, Heal skills (all of them) should have energy costs removed with such long cooldowns.

The only time I felt frustrated when I died on my Rev (besides an unexpected sniper spawn or when I failed at gliding) was when I didn’t have the 5 energy to heal when I wanted to and all my endurance was gone (no energy means no blocking either). The block energy cost is fine because of the low cooldowns right now.

Honestly, I’d like an option 5 where you can trade your energy for cooldown reduction to use the ability again in a shorter time frame otherwise, the ability has a “standard” cooldown timeframe. This then balances spamming one ability over and over by increasing energy costs but then it opens up the use of all of the Revenant abilities overall.

^ Related, Sword 2 needs a blind which would give it the utility. There really needs to be some type of active or passive defense on Rev main hand sword.

Sword 3 is pretty awesome feeling (wish it was a tad longer range since it requires a target) and gives it the needed mobility and continues the Rev sticking to the target better than anything sword 2 can do.

The biggest issue I had with glider is that the bar doesn’t immediately refresh when you land and there is no indicator at to when it is filled again.

Suggest a UI change to have a secondary (smaller) bar on the inner endurance bar circle or something. At least in the meantime, maybe an in-game character message that it is refreshed would help.

The issue with mastery points is they are redundant and confusing. You need “mastery experience points” first in order to spend them on the thing that you’ve already chosen (or was chosen for you by default) to level up via normal experience.

The only reason they exist is that you have to “find” them in lieu of just sitting in one spot in the game world and doing the same event grind/dungeon grind/etc. over and over. Ironically, that’s what the beta event felt like because it was confined to such a small area and the events were broken more often than not :/

Mid range mace suggestion in the Glint speculation thread oops

Honestly, there should be a “not so hidden” mechanic tied to weekly progression for mastery lines so that initial progression is extremely slow in the beginning and as weeks pass, the ease to progress the current mastery lines should kick in to a maximum discount amount (like 50% discount max).

My thought is much like experience +% chest rewards for all xp, there should just be a specific awarded upgrade for “xp” to mastery lines. This will comfort the hardcores to have it first and ease the casual players into getting everything over time.

This also encourages player logins longer term and allows players to do the content they want in the manner that they want to do it in (i.e. I want to focus solely on HoT content and then get into the other stuff later on). In theory, this can be replicated across game modes to WvW, Fractals and PvP tracks as well to an extent to encourage cross-pollination.

skowcia.8257:

Artaz.3819:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You put the MH sword in one weapon set and the OH sword in the other weapon set, then you always have dual sword, but can also swap for on-swap effects like leeching/battle/doom/hydromancy etc.

^

Also, people say this will end up picking Staff for the heal/condition removal or Jammer for the blast finishers/range.

If anything..staff for additional block on 3 and burst/stunbreak baiter on 5

Hammer is too situation and too slow to make it work properly with 240 radius.

Yes, block and spike damage from Staff 5 as well. But if you trying to stick to the only one weapon thought, it’s used for that utility.

“Slow” is all relative with Quickness boon. But I get what you are saying. With the untested damage modifier tweaks, the slowness may actually be not that bad at all for a decent AoE blast with and without stun (but don’t forget the 50% uptime ranged block either).

draxynnic.3719:

Blackarps.1974:

People speculate shield but I’d prefer scepter unless they can make shield really, really useful.

I think a scepter with the medium range would be great because its what Revenants really need. They have plenty of melee and range with hammer so something in the middle would be nice. I haven’t really thought about the skills, utilities, or elite though. We have condi, defense, healing, and offense. What else is there? A support legend? One that gives boons and helps the up-time of them?

Shield has apparently been datamined… mind you, so had elementalist sword. :P

Personally, I think revenant should just get scepter (or something) as a core choice, not tied to an elite specialisation. Having only the hammer as your ranged option is going to get old fast. Even guardians have two options, and this is one area where more probably makes it easier to balance (it means that if one weapon is overpowered and it gets overnerfed, players can just switch to another rather than the profession as a whole being mauled).

No it just means Hammer will be very popular as the primary or secondary weapon set in all game modes since it is also AoE based and ranged. A medium range weapon option versus a group support/boon weapon offhand (like warhorn/focus) which will come from Shield actually fills the largest Revenant versatility gap.

IMO, it would make more sense to tweak Mace for short/medium range as oppose to melee range (for that other range choice) instead of introducing Scepter.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You put the MH sword in one weapon set and the OH sword in the other weapon set, then you always have dual sword, but can also swap for on-swap effects like leeching/battle/doom/hydromancy etc.

^

Also, people say this will end up picking Staff for the heal/condition removal or Jammer for the blast finishers/range.

Kidel.2057:

Artaz.3819:

Kidel.2057:

Rage is better. Revenant gets +10% crit rate and +7% damage from traits under fury, plus the normal 20% from the boon and 7% from the rune. 25 might is easier to achieve and mantain, expecially in pve and wvw, so you’re comparing a 5% with a 42% damage increase (factoring only 100% crit damage).
It’s math.

Price doesn’t really matter, since Revenant is the first class that gets so much boost from fury.

Also in group play both are outshadowed by scholar runes.

First, trait is +30% crit rate (not +10%). (20% from Fury + 30% additional from GM trait). I’m not sure if did math or just did the napkin version and compared Fury/Ferocity against Might/Power only without other boons and total boon uptime.

I’d like it if there was an actual Rune alternative.

As confirmed by Roy, the trait gives 50% of the usual + 20%, so it’s 30% total (20+10). He also sait it may be buffed. Description is misleading

Ouch, that makes it worse to compare. :/ I didn’t use it the last two play tests but the very first, I could have sworn it was +50% on the character stat screen. Good to know

Kidel.2057:

It’s pretty easy to fix. Game physics has layers, so simply put map and hammer colliders on different layers. It takes me 5 seconds in Unity, I’m pretty sure they have more advanced tools.
There are already many skills that don’t collide with the map.

This would mean that the hammers will only hit a specific point directly within that layer. The hammers currently hit targets in a vertical range (like a cylinder).

The Jalis upkeep hammers are basically a pet that is summoned on a leash to your characters position and continuously dies/refreshes on pulse. If the hammer pet runs into a non-destructable target, it ends because pets can’t path through those objects. Since this is “new” tech, I don’t imagine it’ll be fixed unless the hammers check for structures nearby when summoned or do not always go in a fixed leash circle from your position.

Kidel.2057:

Rage is better. Revenant gets +10% crit rate and +7% damage from traits under fury, plus the normal 20% from the boon and 7% from the rune. 25 might is easier to achieve and mantain, expecially in pve and wvw, so you’re comparing a 5% with a 42% damage increase (factoring only 100% crit damage).
It’s math.

Price doesn’t really matter, since Revenant is the first class that gets so much boost from fury.

Also in group play both are outshadowed by scholar runes.

First, trait is +30% crit rate (not +10%). (20% from Fury + 30% additional from GM trait). I’m not sure if did math or just did the napkin version and compared Fury/Ferocity against Might/Power only without other boons and total boon uptime.

I’d like it if there was an actual Rune alternative.

Killyox.3950:

Rain.9213:

I like how everyone’s complaining about having to use runes of traveler/speed on Revenant. Meanwhile, I have a stack of 6 Traveler runes waiting especially for my Revenant xD
Seriously guys, stop qq’ing about ooc mobility for Revenant. If the class turns out really strong, it would be too ridiculous to ask to be a powerhouse in combat and uncatchable out of combat or running from zergs. We can’t have it all guys.

I got ~120 rage runes (mostly because i expect them to rise in price) and might get traveler runes if i see i need more speed.

Strength and Hoelbrak will still be #1 for DPS due to Sword Might/Fire field blast from Mace (and then Hammer swap). The Fury GM trait (while decent) and with Ferocious Aggression does not overcome the damage throughput of Power + Might boon duration with ~50% crit chance from gear.

Also, it’s not just about Fury uptime but also Quickness boon uptime so Traveler’s would actually be better. And the condition duration from Traveler’s remains useful due to Vulnerability/other conditions.

However, Fury Runes could see their place as an alternative/perfect group set up (your group mates are max capping you with Might).

My vote is Traveler’s and if Swiftness boon comes from Glint, Runes of the Pack.

No surprise that these are the top 4 pricey Runes right now.

I keep seeing off-hand pistol for Warrior. Does it make any sense at all that if Warriors get off-hand pistol that they wouldn’t also get main-hand as well? I mean that would be a huge slap in the face for Warriors (Thief can use ’em that way, why not Warrior?).

For Mesmers, it kind of makes sense since the off-hand pistol does a whole lot of non-physical/illusionary stuff.

Warriors have needed a 600-900 main-hand range option since original Beta feedback. If it’s off-hand Torch, lol. Like anything is wrong with off-hand Sword for everything a condition Warrior would need.

Kidel.2057:

And I also agree on elites by the way. Maybe there is no need to add cd, since with huge energy cost and upkeep skills you’re not going to spam them, but a shorter activation time on Jalis elite would be great. That legend simply can’t tank atm.

IMO, Rite of the Great Dwarf is a whole other issue that needs to be addressed that is independent of energy costs in this thread.

I think the balance problem with that ability is the AoE support reduction component is a trade off which hurts the “tank it” role. To fix, it just needs to stop trying to be party based for it’s channel or if it is, add an Aegis boon at the end of the cast. Then reduce the cast time significantly (maybe make it all aftercast?) while increasing the base effect/add boons.

DiogoSilva.7089:

In the end, legend swapping feels underwhelming, and I think some players feel that the addition of weapon swapping is a sign that legend swapping will stay as it is.

It’s because we have things like the Elementalist (and really all classes have it in some form) that when you switch an attunement (ie. → Air → Fire), there are traits like Sunspot that gives it a baseline function beyond just getting another set of abilities. Revenant shouldn’t get a trait similar to Elementalist but there should be some obvious mechanic benefit that encourages frequent invoking a legend swapping in combat. Gaining fury boon, stun break, condition removal (all in Invocation line) is uninspiring.

What I’d personally like to see is generation of a combo field, ie. Fire for Shiro, Water for Ventari, Poison field for Mallyx, Light field for Jalis, etc. This opens so much more for this class without breaking it even if it was a GM trait.

Rygg.6237:

Having to wait for 10 seconds before you’re able to swap legends is what made the people ask for weaponswap in the first place because you were locked in a single legend running out of energy for 10 seconds while not being able to do much with just 1 weapon and no way to use your utilities, again…[remove ele/eni rant]…if you’re gonna use 2 skills on each stance because of the high energy cost and wait 10 seconds to be able to do anything else besides autoattacks and 2-3 weapon attacks, let alone try to manage your energy and damage mitigation/output in an efficient way and that adds a lot to the profession feeling slow and with no synergy between skills and traits…

^ This is ultimately what is odd about the Revenant feel that weapon swap can’t fix. You can only run the same 1-2 “energy efficient” rotations because it is so limiting. Adding a weapon swap means you might have 2-3 rotations or another defensive/utility option but ultimately Revenant needs a Fast Hands -esque trait but focused on energy reduction/energy gain or handful of other traits like energy gain on critical hit, energy discount on next ability used in trait line, energy reduction after use of elite, energy reduction on all line skills after invoking a legend, etc…

TL;DR There is a feeling of a double-penalty. Cooldown prevents spamming (unlike the Thief with only initiative). And energy cost prevents chaining all weapon skills on cooldown (unlike pretty much every other non-thief class) and even prevents you using utilities when you want. It should be one or the other, but not both. Utility skills should use energy and weapon skills should use cooldown.

Kidel.2057:

I’m pretty sure Roy said it stacks in the Shiro POI

You’re right. Listened to POI again and at @ 31:10, Roy specificially states it stacks and makes for some “really crazy fast attacks”.

Glint-spec could be boon spamming based, but Defensive (Protection/Vigor/Regen) falls too much into the realm of Guardian and Offensive (Might/Fury) falls too much into the realm of Warrior. To me, Ventari already is the support/Defense boon side (albeit weaker in many ways) but was just adjusted upward too.

As for not enough Might, Revenant’s will produce plenty (to themselves) using Assassin skills and Sword 3 with trait.

I suppose, it’s possible that Glint will get a copied version of a Mesmer Signet and provide AoE boon replications.

However, I really doubt it’ll be offensive-focused boon based though. Glint doesn’t feel thematically that it would go in that direction. Retribution boon/Aegis boon however is very Glint-like.

I ultimately hope that Glint will be far more unique/provide party support in a different manner though (i.e. provide a variety of combo fields).

If it’s at all based off GW1 (it will be), it’ll be based on soft CC (chill/immobilize like Crystal Bonds and slow like Crystal Haze) and Retribution boon like Jagged Crystal Skin. Crystal Hibernation makes for an aesthetically themed group heal/regeneration (something the Revenant currently lacks).

Glint is made for battlefield disruption and supports a more control-orientated level playstyle. Hopefully, it’ll have an interrupt or another mobility option of some sort as well or it’ll be an odd, clunky one requiring frequent swapping in/out to use properly.

Gav.1425:

They could merge Ferocious Strikes and Rapid Lacerations which are basically 2 traits for similar requirements. One requires a sword, the other requires dual wielding—which you’re already doing if you have at least one sword.

Fast attacks is a class defining mechanic and shouldn’t be written off so ..rapidly.

I say merge them into Ferocious Lacerations or Rapid Strikes.

Major Adept Ferocious Lacerations / Rapid Strikes (attacking with sword gives a stacking 2% skill speed increase and 30 ferocity, max 10% skill speed and 150 ferocity)

With the recent changes, almost all classes with multiple traits for the same thing ie Manipulations or Sword either had one element made baseline (ie cool down reductions) or both merge into a single trait. Why add multiple traits for the same/similar things now?

This proposal fits the new trend and the intended direction of Shiro, a fast attacking assassin that builds up power over time to quickly finish enemies.

We actually don’t know if Rapid Lacerations stacks with Impossible Odds and the Quickness boon so your suggestion might be moot.

Talyn.3295:

Just be happy they are account bound now, for the longest time they were soulbound to the character who ran the dungeon or bought/salvaged the gear.

Which is why it’s strange to me to even account bound them. It’s not like the Runes can only be used in Dungeons.

My guess is that most Rev builds will be picking the only 1200 range weapon option (Hammer) unless Staff utility of an extra heal/condition removal ability is important for you. The Hammer 6s ranged forward arc block and 2 blast finishers (one being stun) is likely to outweigh that utility though.

This is not a unique problem for just condition-primary-based builds.

Rygg.6237:

Neomir.7493:

I havn’t tested the Rev yet but I am theorycrafting a build I think will fit my playstyle.

A lack of on demand stability can be played around with clever dodge rolls, it might seem, but for me I need a ‘zergdiving’ (there, I said it) tool.

Will Revenant have any sort of mist form/endure pain/stone signet/distortion/invuln/exlixir s type of ability? Does it have one already? If it did would it be considered too powerful? I.e. There’s a reason Warrior doesn’t get protection etc.

Interested to hear.

Legends as of the last change announcement have no CD, so you do have permanent stability and weakness on foes (Jalis 7 pulses stability and weakness each second, the skill lasts 5 seconds and it has a CD of 5 seconds) so there’s some damage mitigation there,you’ll have to rely on your team mates to get protection since currently the only way to get protection is proc it when you get CC on you, you can get nice sustain with Jalis and Ventari if they keep the no CD on legend swap, the problem is you’ll either need to pick both Retribution and Salvation to maximize sustain and group utility, or Devastation+Retribution/Salvation if you don’t have enough damage which in a zerg scenario there’s people with other roles that can compensate for that.

As for invulnerability you have no currently source for that, 1 spammable evade on Shiro, 3 ways to grant a form of passive damage mitigations through traits plus Jalis elite so you can actually soak a ton of damage, and get to full HP because the heals on Ventari do really get overkill, it’s a matter of actually being able to manage your energy, you also have some nice control capabilities (stability, weakness, taunt, knockbacks, elites can stun for 2 seconds if traited, etc.) given that you spec for that.

The problem with Revenant’s last iteration because your damage output was too low both direct and condition damage and thus it rendered your survivability less effective while enemies could recover really fast from both your condition pressure and direct damage, while dealing much more condition pressure and direct damage that you could manage, you were outsustained and outdamaged all the time even against lv 80 normal mobs, literally every Orr or SW mob felt like soloing a champion.

TL;DR yes you can zergdive, but don’t expect it to carry the whole zerg by itself.

Don’t be surprised if changing Legends in combat has a cooldown added or more likely to me, an energy cost, as that removes a lot of out of combat pre-warm-up shenanigans. Or ANet could take the “lighter” way and just make the Legend swap cooldown only apply in combat similar to weapon swap. Engineers/Eles currently use out of combat pre-warm-up weapon/kit swapping but that’s for a different topic balance thread so it could go either way.

Also, Shiro does not have a spammable evade. It costs 35 energy. It’s basically Lightning Reflexes without the damage but adds a single dodge (50 endurance). So 2x evades.

You probably didn’t play Staff/Jalis in last Beta, did you? No problems in PvE at all against multiple PvE mobs if you danced a bit and picked up your staff healing orbs (and saved your staff condition removal for poison) and used your block for basically closing against ranged. To me it felt very fluid and relatively quick to take down mobs (felt very Thief-siphon-health-like) but low on mobility. I ignored the Staff 2 skill because Jalis 7. The wiki doesn’t show the multi-hit damage that ability did in last Beta all while providing a lightning field (for staff whirl brutal bolts) and basically-perma mob weakness.

For some reason, people think that when Break Bar is revealed for Warriors that it will not have any drawbacks. It will likely require a major investment to deal with the penalty if the breakbar does fall off (not to mention the real possibility of the removal of the other part of the Warrior mechanic, their Adrenaline bar when used).

Use Staff where the combo fields as the whirl autoattack is very nice.

Paired with Jalis and the Lightning Field you can use it for Brutal Bolts and apply Vulnerability. Now with Targeted Destruction (a minor trait in Assassin/Devastation line), you also will be doing increased damage without the 25% trigger on hit chance from Mutilate Defenses plus, you know, even more Vulnerability.

DaveyC.4398:

Shiro Tammogotchi

Mine is:

Shiro Tagochi
Title: The Emperor

:)

Kidel.2057:

You don’t say

The only protection we have is a trait to get 3s of protection on cc received, and Jalis elite (unusable). Invulnerability would be a luxury (or something worth spending 50 energy on).

In lieu of Protection boon, Revenant is more similar to Warriors by having multiple ways of healing besides just the obvious 6-skill. It comes from the traits and weapons and Ventari legend.

If WvW Zerging, you’ll be running Jalis as one of two legends for AoE Stability road (don’t be fooled, that ability does pretty decent damage too and hits multiple targets).

You can also take the Invocation line with Grandmaster trait Empty Vessel for unlimited stun breaks if not running Jalis (maybe it supplements?).

However, this will all be about energy management so there is some higher skill level about knowing when to burst/use energy and hold in reserve for defense.

From most recent Beta, the issue with Revenant to me was disengage (in PvP) and relative combat mobility. Shiro will likely be required because of this in pretty much all builds mainly because of Riposting Shadows (a huge defensive move) and if able, even “Phase Traversal” might be a pseudo-disengage as well.

Change it to a projectile finisher and it’s fixed.

A combo finisher would supplement the damage/utility of the weakness of a 1s Chill and low damage.

EDIT: Since the weapon doesn’t have a field creation, it probably should have some type of combo generator. Blast is already covered by Mace mainhand… Leap finisher could work as well but it would have to be shorter range due to the range of the attack (obviously, a leap 600 with a range AoE reduction to 180 would be more valuable but at a 4s cooldown would be pretty OP).

Another option is to make it a 1/4s or instant cast ability, but that probably won’t make it feel as flavorful.

Tempest for PvE, choke-point/objective WvW/PvP will be broken. But who cares about those game modes, right?

What I think is the problem is that it “dumbs down” Elementalist further with more defensive options/area denial options and enhances the power creep issue needed to overcome the Elementalist tank builds.

Also, I bet my word, ANet changes the interrupt locking out the Attunement for 15-20 seconds. The -5s Adept trait will likely be modified too (or made baseline). ANet will want to see this Elite specialization in PvP and it will change.

Shouts, just wow … not all bad. Warhorn will be all about creating fields and soft CC (AoE pull, pulsing blind field, etc.) and while it won’t be offhand dagger, there is no saying that the damage output/utility will be any less superior.

Specifically, why aren’t these Superior Runes sellable on the TP as they remain account bound after being salvaged from items unlike other Superior Runes.

1. Rune of the Aristocracy
2. Rune of the Baelfire
3. Rune of the Forgeman
4. Rune of the Golemancer
5. Rune of the Monk
6. Rune of Nightmare
7. Rune of Orr
8. Rune of Sanctuary

I’m curious if anyone knows or maybe this is a John Smith question?

IMO, it seems game-play limiting and as it would encourage more dungeon runs/PvP track time with player involvement.

Windsagio.1340:

IN GENERAL

Short version: You’re carrying 2 different legends, switch them the way you’d switch a weapon. That’s how the system is set up.

The issue is that because the legends are so specialized into their respective areas, that you will spend the most time in one form (and if you don’t have the insta-swap GM trait, there is usually little reason to go to your other Legend as their are only a handful of situational reasons why you would switch).

And if you haven’t noticed, healing skills are now tied to the same cooldown (the primary reason to switch beforehand in combat).

Another huge downfall of Legends is that you lose the effects of the previous Legend (utilities end) as soon as you swap. The interesting gameplay/skill level that could be achieved if Elites/Utilities lingered after swap (for the same energy cost) after switching is completely lost.

IMO, after a couple of hours per weapon/legend testing/trait testing, here’s my main concerns with Revenant:

1. Lack of mobility. All Heavy classes that rely on primarily melee focus have several forms of combat closing mobility on melee weapons on very short cooldowns.
(i.e. Staff with 5 or Axe with 4 are great. The problem is their cooldowns. In PvE it’s OK but not ideal. In PvP/WvW, forget it. Revenants are way underpowered. And they have -0- escape options. It’s Guardian/Necro without the activate defensive options.)

2. The DPS is lacking. Only the spike from Staff 5 is of any real value in PvP. And to line that up is unbelievably difficult to get it’s full value. In PvE, it’s nigh broken and reminds me of Beta Hundred Blades Warrior.
2.5 Staff 5 should be swapped with Staff 2, cooldown reduced and hits reduced to like 5. This would add mobility to the weapon (needed) but not turn it into so OP ability. Staff 2 should be killed, it’s awful (maybe if the first Staff 2 was 1/4s activation, it would be usable and a small DPS increase).

3. I found the majority of the traits as either “got to take” because I use this weapon or am built for conditions or I use taunt or etc. The freedom is not their to take what you want for Rev. You need to choose how you intend to combat and then take the trait to supplement or don’t use it (i.e. Ventari tablet traits conflicting with build options like Staff … grrr)
3.5 Because of the “got to take” that trait, the gameplay is extremely simplistic. It’s actually a class with a lower skill floor than any other in game class by far. And the skill ceiling is also the lowest of any other class as well because of the lack of skills to use.

I honestly believe that the weapon abilities were not adjusted for the current damage output (read, condition damage) that other classes received in the update just a few weeks back. You would think a melee weapon that applies condition damage would be built around soft/hard CC (cripple, chill, immobilize) and apply it rapidly since you know, targets move, but that is not how the Mace is currently built. And the Mace ‘3’ Leap is far too short.

Another huge missed opportunity for Revenant is Energy creation traits/mechanics such as the most basic which would be autoattack ‘1’ on every weapon generates Energy. But you could go further like, vary up your Utilities and gain greater Energy discounts, etc. type traits.

Generally, all of the Rev heals are underwhelming. Their main purpose is condition removal honestly and in that respect it’s fine. I was a proponent of leaving them as is when you could swap Legends and use the other heal right away. But now that heals share the same cooldown, all of the heal skills need to be brought up in strength.

HitmanHaydon.1053:

Its going to turn into a giant EotM style karma train.
Its obvious to anyone that understand how wvw works.

To be fair, EotM will be even more so.

EDIT: Which begs the question, why didn’t ANet just “test” this in EotM in the first place?

pdavis.8031:

este.8651:

The sad truth is that these tourneys bring out the worst in people.

You have commanders that are tapped directly into what the other commander is saying while having a blob with siege and also paying a spy to drain supply. You also have tag watchers who are directly calling out where the commander is going in ts. If that doesn’t work then you pay someone to ddos the commander. If that doesn’t work then they form guilds on other servers in order to have two servers in the same comms. Then why quit there! Just do it all the time, no tourney needed.

They just take it too far and they use it as some type of sadistic release. I think they rationalize it somehow by thinking its “just a game” but taking on the level they do says more about their character. All the while the sheep that follow them are the ones that allow the abuse to perpetuate.

And there is proof of this?

Wouldn’t that fall under “Match Manipulation”? And as such a bannable offense?

If you have concrete evidence of such things going on, then send a report to: exploits@arena.net

While I do believe there may be some “collusion” going on I don’t think its to that extent.

No, it was heavily a problem in Season 2 and would be again. There is absolutely -0- in violation of policy except siege/supply trolling – you should know how quickly that gets acted upon by now. And the DDOS attacks (against commander directly and/or against the TS servers) is not something in ANet’s control.

I foresee the larger issue now would actually be teleport hacking with stealth/invisible groups (the issue is running rampant in China). While ANet can catch these folks, the PPT damage is usually done after hours of abuse. With accounts being super cheap and IPs being spoofed, it’s way to easy to repeat.

Also, to some players, real-life money (to an extent) to buy accounts/pay guilds/pooling WvW guild gold to move to another server (or competing servers for trolling/spying) during tournament is not an inhibitor.

It would cause more people to leave the game/elevate toxic community play than bring people to it after the initial surge of achievement hunters.

denis.9487:

riva.1357:

I main mesmer and mainly play WvW and sPvP. I feel PU is way too strong at the moment whereas the last iteration of it was OK. The stealth condi mesmer playstyle was already very strong and hard to counter (you can just run away ofc, there’s little to no chase going on in those builds) but now with the added duration and condi changes I feel like it has spun out of control. Even with the removal of clone death builds there’s not enough risk going on for the reward it gives.

Your using pu in pvp? Are you sure you main Mesmer?

IMO, PU is pretty useless except for Courtyard. But right around the corner with Stronghold coming, holy crap. We need to be forward thinking of the future game state since ANet sure doesn’t appear to have it on the radar.

PU for WvW, it’s just meta (most powerful option after Engin/Guard nerfs, probably for any class right now especially paired with burst/glass cannon – which you can set up again and again because of invisibility and no reveal). Anyone claiming otherwise is kidding themselves. Solo/havoc, unbelievably good. Zerg is zerg and better left for the tag-a-lot builds.

IMO, the biggest balance issue with what PU does is when opponents actually play correctly by counter/avoiding the Mesmer’s initial burst incoming by blowing utilities (usually multiple) plus evading/using endurance and you just wait it out with stealth for the next cycle burst while continuing to apply illusions pressure without being revealed. If the illusions are spread apart or if the fail to kill off the phantasms, they are screwed.

On topic — yes, we will have not a night but an entire week of Karma training.

:( go to EotM please

Tranquillity.8697:

“Dolyaks are now champions – weekend”
….

No plz don’t do this stuff to wvw^^

It’s going to happen, old thread on Dolyak improvements.

Get your perma-stealth Grenade Siege Disablers builds ready!

killahmayne.9518:

With the new Berserker’s Power, it does NOT conflict with Cleansing Ire at all. Spending adrenaline successfully clears conditions and gives you the damage buff if you trait both. So it is definitely better. That and you can potentially have 100% uptime on the damage buff.

^ This. The new Berserker’s Power doesn’t conflict with the nigh-required Warrior Trait for PvP/WvW. Unfortunately due to the September 2014 changes, Warrior need to have an immediate ( Berserker’s Stance / Signet of Fury / “To The Limit!” ) Adrenaline gain followed by a high-uptime with Adrenaline creation like Cleansing Ire and Furious traits.

This means generate it quick, get it to land, profit. In PvP/WvW, that’s not always really possible so Warriors feel weak.