I remember, as some posters in this thread have pointed out, Anet saying something to the effect of, “if you do not like other mmos you will want to try gw2.”
But they also said, as certain posters in this thread seem to have forgotten, that if you like other mmos you will want to give gw2 a try.
I have never seen a statement or advertisement from Anet claimig that gw2 was intended solely for casual play/players.
The only way for something to be equally attainable for everyone, as has been requested here, is for there to be essentially zero effort or time requirement. The only thing that everyone has equal ability (or time) to do is…nothing.
the comparisson made with numbers tries to be as objective as posible.
Not really.
It looks an awful lot more like an attempt at justifying a subjective bias. Not really far from how Fox news and certain demagogues present their facts.
Nice, you just refuted a wall of text that compares content from 2 different expansions with two lines..
No I did not.
I refuted a dozen words with a couple dozen.
And, for what its worth, I did not consider EoTN to be even among Anet’s best work. Kudos to those who liked it better than HoT and kudos to those who prefer HoT.
the comparisson made with numbers tries to be as objective as posible.
Not really.
It looks an awful lot more like an attempt at justifying a subjective bias. Not really far from how Fox news and certain demagogues present their facts.
If I wanted Nintendo games, I’d play on the Nintendo.
Bingo.
I wonder how well a platforming game would do if significant elements of progression were gated behind deep character development style writing and role-play.
-1 easy achievements should not give titles
You can tag all 5 bosses in one night cycle if you know what you are doing. There is no inactivity timer on these events.
Easy achievements are particularly suited to titles because a title is an easily implemented reward, requiring few dev resources, that has zero trade value and is specific to the content wherein the achievement is earned. This allows the most casual of players to get something they like for their character without infringing on more expensive to produce rewards designed for harder content.
You mean how GW2 is a B2P game funded by box sales and potential (but not guaranteed) gem store sales, meanwhile FFXIV is funded by a monthly required subscription on top of it’s boxed sales and expansion boxed sales? That kind of makes all the difference in content output and quality.
Reading this makes it look as if you are saying that Anet cannot produce quantity and quality to compare with their competitors due to their business model. It implies that GW2 is an inferior product.
I do not necessarily agree with that implication. I am not sufficiently familiar with FFXIV to compare the two games. If, however, GW2’s business model is causing it to be an inferior product to its competition then perhaps something needs to change.
For what it is worth, I think that ESO is a pretty decent game. I assume that FFXIV is as well or it would not be as popular as it is. Of course GW2 is also a decent game or we would not be here.
Also, for what it is worth, I have spent more money on GW2 than on any sub based MMO that I have played, without getting more bang for my buck. Depending on what you want from a game GW2’s BtP + Gemstore can be significantly more expensive than a subscription.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
If the HoT maps are essentially mini-games, what’s the actual game? There isn’t enough instanced content to make a whole MMO.
As to the OP’s point… I liked the game better when ANet didn’t try so hard to make people play every bit of content they put into the game. Progression in vanilla was gained pretty much doing anything you cared to. That seems to no longer be the case. It’s a fine thing to make things in game seem rewarding, but character/account progression is best if broadly gained.
Agreed.
I am not sure that we do.
How much would it cost?
Where does that money come from?
How is that cost to be reclaimed?
How much content could have been produced for that cost?
It is pretty clear from some posts in this thread that some people do not know the definition of the word lazy.
Where the needs of the lower and middle-incomed are placed higher, compared with a totally (or unfettered) capitalist country, which might place their needs last, or not at all.
I am not aware of any nation that practices unfettered capitalism.
I was pointing out that if you have to play to pay then it’s by definition not free to play.
So what is it if you do not have to pay to play GW2?
Lol. Typos.
Sorry. I wasn’t trying to point out typos. I really am curious as to what you would call it if someone can play GW2 without paying anything. I personally would call that free to play because free to play does not necessarily mean free access to everything. I am unaware of any free to play game that does not charge for something.
If people have to pay for the expansion to access new maps and professions, just like any other non f2p games, then it’s not free to play for them. I don’t really consider the f2p accounts as truly representative. They have numerous restrictions that can only be lifted by becoming pay to play and are actually more an extended trial version of the game.
Maybe its just me, but if one can play…for free…then free to play seems fairly accurate. It is after all F2P (Free to play) not F2PE (Free to play everything).
Not a big deal though. To each his own.
I was pointing out that if you have to play to pay then it’s by definition not free to play.
So what is it if you do not have to pay to play GW2?
Lol. Typos.
Sorry. I wasn’t trying to point out typos. I really am curious as to what you would call it if someone can play GW2 without paying anything. I personally would call that free to play because free to play does not necessarily mean free access to everything. I am unaware of any free to play game that does not charge for something.
I was pointing out that if you have to play to pay then it’s by definition not free to play.
So what is it if you do not have to pay to play GW2?
Because the money I spent on the expansion and the money I have spent in the gem store over the years has gone to pay to create that content.
And you are CHOOSING to exercising your right to not partake of it.
So I’ve made a consumer choice not to participate in raid content
Jumping puzzles are included in the price I paid for the game. I choose to not do them.
Hmm,
The definition listed in wikipedia matches what I find in GW2. Repetetive killing of AI controlled mobs in order to access content.
I’ve been grinding to get BiS for three years now (and am still not there). I’ve never played another game where, based on an average of one piece of BiS per year of play, I can expect it to take seven years to finally be outfitted (and be able to begin what I enjoy most in an MMO).
Actually no. What it meant was grinding mobs rather than events. Not just killing mobs in an event. Essentally if you ran out of quests in games you had to grind mobs. No event. No story. Just klling without anything to break it up. That was the difference.
If you have multiple events that are repeatable that all give experience, that you can switch off too, it would never have been considered grinding.
Yeah, like I said, killing mobs…
by the thousands…tens of thousands…hundreds of thousands…
I think that including a variety of content for a variety of play styles is a good thing. This includes both casual and hardcore play.
For three years the emphasis in GW2 has been on casual play. I think that it is appropriate to add a hardcore play element at this point.
Personally I think that, before Anet looks into easier modes for raids, they should look into adding hard mode for core game content.
I think that including a variety of content for a variety of playstyles is a good thing. This includes, “hardcore,” play.
Casual play has been catered to for three plus years now, implementing some permanent hardcore content now after all that time seems appropriate.
Before Anet works on an easier mode for raids, I think they should work on hard mode for older content.
Furthermore, all the negative reviews are focusing on the exact same things, and they’re not bashing the company like your typical smear campaign would. In fact, every single negative review also has very positive things to say about the company in general. Its just those key points that keep repeatedly coming up.
This part stood out to me.
Smear campaigns, or former employees out for revenge generally do not make positive comments.
I simply do not believe, on a fundamental level, that adventure game players should need to understand market economics in order to do well at the adventure game.
Luckily for all of us your belief is already reality. One does not need o understand market economics in order to do well at adventure gaming in GW2.
Because this is Guild Wars 2, not “Stock Market Simulator 2.”
And yet you proposed a preference for increasing precursor drops based on killing mobs despite the fact that this is GW2 not, “Mob Slayer 2.”
Because again, this is not a market simulator game.
You are mistaken. This discussion would not exist if market simulation was not an aspect of this game. Perhaps you mean that it should not be a market simulation game (in addition to all of the other types of game that it is). That is a different discussion entirely, but arguing to have an aspect of the game taken away from other players because you do not personally wish to participate in it is a bit off in my opinion.
GW2 is:
A combat simulation game.
A platforming game.
A roleplaying game.
A market simulation game.
An exploration game.
and plenty of others I am sure that I have missed.
You keep repeating the same thing. Doesn’t make it any more true. It’s not a new tier defined by how tiers of gear are in any MMO out there.
We are playing, and speaking of, GW2, not, “any MMO out there.”
GW2 was purposefully created, and advertised, to not be quite like every MMO on the market. Sure there are similarities, perhaps those similarities have grown over time, but the intention and design are still there.
Is the armor reward for raiding in every MMO out there statistically identical to armor earned in open world content?
sighs
When Anet is talking about gear tiers and gear grind and gear treadmills (as you see in the videos) they are NOT talking about treadmills for pretty skins/convenience. They are talking about the traditional gear treadmill that you see in most MMOs. Hence why they make the statement that they don’t want to invalidate your hard work and that your gear which was best in slot today will still be best in slot tomorrow. They are talking about stats people. STATS.
This does not address my point. Nor does it answer my question.
You used a variant of the, “other games do it this way,” argument. I pointed out that Anet has specifically tried to not do everything the way other games do.
So, does every other mmo have endgame raid reward armor statistically identical to gear obtainable through open world content?
Or has Anet demonstrated, through legendary armor implementation, that they are purposefully not treating endgame armor gain the same as other games?
And, since it is a demonstrable fact that Anet is treating endgame armor differently than other games, it is not irrelevant how such armor tiers are handled in those other games.
I disagree. AP are gained while playing the game and, potentially, already gaining rewards for doing so. AP chest rewards are a bonus that, if increased, would put too much emphasis on actively pursuing something that should, IMO, be by byproduct of playing the game, not the game itself.
You keep repeating the same thing. Doesn’t make it any more true. It’s not a new tier defined by how tiers of gear are in any MMO out there.
We are playing, and speaking of, GW2, not, “any MMO out there.”
GW2 was purposefully created, and advertised, to not be quite like every MMO on the market. Sure there are similarities, perhaps those similarities have grown over time, but the intention and design are still there.
Is the armor reward for raiding in every MMO out there statistically identical to armor earned in open world content?
yes its a new tier of armor and only a very silly misled person would think otherwise
and at 16.40 on this video the top guy at anet said that they would not be adding new tiers and starting a gear grind treadmill and invalidating all our hard work.
but here we are with hot and a new tier of legendary armor that most of us are locked out of.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxLkfXwxLTs only word that describes this is LIES.
How is your hard work invalidated?
You go the extra mile because of the shiny skin.
Perhaps you do so, but others may not. Some even transmute over the skin because they consider legendaries, in general, to be unappealing of appearance.
Did HoT change the community or did it shine a spotlight on an unpleasant truth that, perhaps, it was never really any better than other MMO communities? Removing a mask isn’t changing anything, just showing tge true face.
If by “truth” you mean that people react differently after 3 years, well that’s a very long facade to keep up appearances.
Maybe the simpler solution might be in order:
Current events are more selfish and the timegates and limited access to rewards makes people less social. Doesn’t mean the community as such is worse, just that the event design leads to unpleasant behavior.
Nope. I mean that perhaps the behavior has been there all along, but now, with players compressed into a smaller space in game, it is more noticable. Perhaps there isn’t more of the behavior described by the OP, just greater visibility of what has always been there.
Did HoT change the community or did it shine a spotlight on an unpleasant truth that, perhaps, it was never really any better than other MMO communities? Removing a mask isn’t changing anything, just showing tge true face.
You know you are the only one defending Anet’s position right now, if 1 person is happy with the game’s direction and 99 more are not; there is something wrong about it, keep defending all you want and argue all you want, at the end the numbers and the reviews says everything.
How do you get one person happy and 99 not, when there are less than 100 posters in this thread?
manifesto is public declaration of policy and aims. and in my book if you change them after taking my money on false pretenses you a lair/fraudster/cheet
So if you tell your kids we’re going to the movies tonight and then you get called into work and can’t take them because the situation changed, even though when you said it it was absolutely true, you become a liar/fraudster/cheat?
Where in your example did he take his kids’ money on false pretenses?
He didn’t take his kids money but it’s completely irrelevant. Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes. They told us. They wrote an entire blogpost about it. And they offered refunds at the time for up to six months when Ascended gear came out, so they offered him his money back if he felt he was cheated. Many people did get refunds.
Which means that he was silly for not getting it if he felt ripped off. If someone sold me something, had to make changes, offered me a refund and I didn’t take it, I sure wouldn’t come back 3 years later and complain.
Because that’s at the very least disingenuous. Where in his post did he say that people were given refunds because of the change of direction? How the hell is that dishonest or shady?
You compared a parent’s interactions with their children to a business relationship between consumer and producer. Huge difference. I merely asked where the money was in the parent/child interaction since you indicated that it was the same thing.
The refund offer was significantly limited.
So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.
I have yet to see an MMO where one could not redo/replay most content. GW2 limits content replay more than most, in my experience (LS1).
(edited by Ashen.2907)
Although Legendary is technically the top tier of what exists in game it does not have stats any better than Ascended. The only mechanical advantage that Legendary has over Ascended is stat swapping. Since stat swapping does not allow for free mod swapping this particular function is not as useful as it might seem.
All told this top tier is not really an increase over ascended in my opinion.
manifesto is public declaration of policy and aims. and in my book if you change them after taking my money on false pretenses you a lair/fraudster/cheet
So if you tell your kids we’re going to the movies tonight and then you get called into work and can’t take them because the situation changed, even though when you said it it was absolutely true, you become a liar/fraudster/cheat?
Where in your example did he take his kids’ money on false pretenses?
Hmm,
The definition listed in wikipedia matches what I find in GW2. Repetetive killing of AI controlled mobs in order to access content.
I’ve been grinding to get BiS for three years now (and am still not there). I’ve never played another game where, based on an average of one piece of BiS per year of play, I can expect it to take seven years to finally be outfitted (and be able to begin what I enjoy most in an MMO).
It’s kind of amusing that you can’t see the irony in this. ANet built GW2 on the philosophy of “play how you want to play”. But, your statement screams “you can’t play your way, because you must play my way.”
Actually his statement screams nothing of the sort. Others get to play as they desire and he gets to play as he desires. Not everyone will, or should, be in the same group.
If I didn’t like raiding and I paid sufficient attention to note that Anet hosted a lengthy forum initiative to discuss the possibilities of how to implement raids in gw2, and that Anet then posted that they were hiring a raid designer, and that Anet subsequently stated that they were working on an expansion that would include new, challenging, group content, I might hold off on buying the expansion until the details were revealed.
Raids are not the only new endgame content. The entirety of HoT is endgame.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Ashen.2907
no. frankly, that is the model that attracted us to the game in the first place.
“Us?” Is there a bird in your pocket?
we should not be penalized for actually purchasing the game 3yrs ago.
“We?” You and that bird again? In any case you are not being penalized for buying the game three years ago.
GW1 offered expansions, but GW2: tough luck, they will never offer one according to the email I received.
Evidence?
To date I have not seen any comment from Anet stating definitively that they would not produce an expansion for GW2. There is pretty solid evidence that they intend to do so….as it already exists.
So, that makes it official. They simply do not care about existing customers. The only way I can receive any value for purchasing it (again) is to create a new email address and make an entirely new account. That is unacceptable, so, since they don’t care to offer loyal customers anything reasonable (such kitten additional character slots as though it was a new account), then that purchase will NEVER happen for me till they get their heads out of their collective rear ends.
So you paid for something. You got that something. You got more than was originally included in the purchase agreement, and yet Anet does not care?
They gave you more than you paid for and yet they are remiss?
I would not be surprised to discover that there was a big work crunch (double shifts, 7 day work weeks, etc) leading up to the release of HoT. Then there would have been a crush to try catching as many immediately game breaking bugs as possible as soon as possible after HoT launch.
Between the Thanksgiving holiday and some much needed rest (perhaps even vacation) time post launch, I am not at all surprised that there is a drought of, or delay in, dev forum activity.
I may not be happy with the current direction of the game but I do hope that the devs have had an opportunity to relax, spend some quality time with family, and perhaps even eat more pumpkin pie than they should have.
What now? This is your quote…
“That’s OK. For some white knights ANet could sell an expansion with absolutely nothing in it for $100 and they would still defend an love it.”
So the implication…hell you’re just about saying it, is that this game is only liked by white knights who will defend Anet over everything.
Nope.
What he said is that some individuals (which he calls white knights) would love, “it.” Not that only white knights like the game, etc.
He did, after all, state that he likes the game (at least aspects of it).
Really? lol
This is the entirety of his FIRST post in this thread:
“That’s OK. For some white knights ANet could sell an expansion with absolutely nothing in it for $100 and they would still defend an love it.
For each their own.”This is what I responded to. AFTERWARDS he said he likes the game. Do you get that from this post? Because I sure don’t.
Anyone who denies the implications of this post is not paying attention.
1) I was responding to the post that quoted his, not your previous post.
2) Saying that person X will love something does not mean that only person X could love it.
My sister is planning a trip to Disneyland. My nieces will really love it.
This does not translate into, “only my nieces love Disneyland.”
I love the Orrian maps.
Exploring the scarred ruins of an almost forgotten civilization while gazing upon the cyclopean remnants of fallen greatness….
Desolation can be a beautiful thing.
(loves deserts and badlands in real life)
What now? This is your quote…
“That’s OK. For some white knights ANet could sell an expansion with absolutely nothing in it for $100 and they would still defend an love it.”
So the implication…hell you’re just about saying it, is that this game is only liked by white knights who will defend Anet over everything.
Nope.
What he said is that some individuals (which he calls white knights) would love, “it.” Not that only white knights like the game, etc.
He did, after all, state that he likes the game (at least aspects of it).
Player help each other, guide, news, shout out, fan art.
Hundreds, or thousands, of pages of this on the official forums.
This place is pages of complaining after complaining, nothing good ever comes out of here.
Sounds like the real negativity is on your part if you can only see the negative.
I am by definition part of the community. And i have the right to express what i feel about the game, my anger, and frankly what i have been reading a lot these past few weeks.
Perhaps his point was in reference to your use of the plural. If you are speaking for yourself you would, ideally, be using, “me,” or, “I,” rather than, “us,” or, “we.”
Claiming to speak for others invites this sort of criticism.
I think that a larger number of smaller upgrades, with much smaller price tags, would have been the way to go.
A small guild might be able to pick and choose the few options that they could readily afford from the list while larger guilds could afford more, or perhaps even all, options.
Having the guild hall start out smaller, with size upgrades among the listed options, combined with a large number of cosmetic or QoL upgrades could give a large guild plenty to buy while allowing a small guild to have their tiny hall with that one upgrade that is really important to them.
Modular. Pick and choose. Ala Carte.
Some serious disconnection from reality in the OP. I shall assume, being nice here, that it is due to comprehension or cognitive issues rather than dishonesty.
Remember MMO=Massively Multiplayer Online , it wasn’t designed to do things solo .
This is incorrect. Most of the game is designed for players to do things solo. This is pretty common in MMOs. Please note that there is no G for group in MMO.
*Q: Why are we forced to do Adventures, why do we need silver rank to complete collections/acquire mastery points?
A: Nobody forces you , if you are too lazy and want to get gold rank from the 1st try this thing won’t get you far. Tip: watch a video on youtube , somebody who made gold rank , learn from it! PS: I’m not a hardcore player and i’m not that good at this kind of things but i try do my best.I can agree some Adventures are really hard or some of them its not your type for example Shooting Gallery for me i can’t even get silver , probably i have to practice more. But don’t tell me none of this are your type because i don’t believe you.
Not enjoying the adventures does not equate to being lazy. Your claim that everyone in the game enjoys some of the adventures, and that any statement to the contrary is a lie, is pretentious. Unless you can prove that you can read minds and have interviewed every person who has ever played an adventure in HoT, your claim is ridiculous.
*Q: Why can’t I level my masteries anywhere?
A: Because you can’t go and study Medicine and become a Mechanic thats why. Gliding is not for Tyria you can’t glide there , bouncing mushrooms none of them in Tyria and so on…
Is leveling your gliding mastery accomplished solely through practicing gliding, or is leveling masteries more abstract?
*Q: How can i make gold since dungeons got nerfed , why is everything too expensive ?!?!? blah blah blahh i’m lazy again , i don’ want to play …
Blatant falsehoods.
I’m not saying i like eveything about this Expansion and i’ll tell you what:
- Time Gated stuff – i don’t like waiting in for something in order to get it and i don’t talk about doing events to get to a boss or something like that , when i say waiting i mean afk/not doing anything until the event spawns without beign able to progress in that time.
- Some bosses don’t reward enough compared to time spend killing. Or maybe i’m wrong because i’m not an economist.
Yea there are more things to talk about / answer but i’ll stop. Have a nice day!
Gotta love the hypocrisy inherent in tossing pejoratives at anyone else who has complaints about the game but saying that his own complaints are legitimate and acceptable.
In GW1, through exploration, I could discover entire (instanced) cities/towns that I did not know existed prior to the discovery. One of my favorite parts of the game, discovering new locations with new adventures.
That suggests that gems are more scarce now, than they were a year and a half ago.
No, actually it doesn’t. What it does suggest is that there is more gold available for trade now than a year and a half ago.
I know that I have an order of magnitude more gold now than a couple of years ago. I know others that have seen their stockpiles of gold increase to an even greater degree.
Also….
Jimmy Hoffa is buried under Anet’s Washington HQ.
Anet used experimental Chronomancer techniques (FYI all GW2 skills are tested in real life in a secret underground facility before being implemented in the game) to travel back in time to kill JFK. It was a single illusory gunman bullet.
The earth is only three thousand years old (and early mankind coexisted with dinosaurs).
The moon landing was faked.
The earth is flat.
…and many more secret truths.
Probably my ranger. There is just something about the concept of the hunter/archer type that appeals to me.
Meaning players are meant to have more than one guild,
That, “meaning,” is inaccurate. It would be accurate if players were required to join more than one guild.
The whole situation is really easily solved though.
Don’t join guilds with requirements, such as rep %, that you don’t like. Not joining a guild is really very easy. It should take literally no effort on your part.
Complaining about how other people choose to play the game and organize among themselves for that play is a bit off.
As someone who has played quite a few MMOs out there it seems to me as if this game was designed for those incapable of using but a fraction of what they know, because every other MMO I have played out there does not limit me, allowing me to use my character to its full potential, i.e. if I have learned 40 abilities I can use all of them, at any given point, which is what GW2 never allowed and it is absurd and idiotic and the cause of major frustrations, e.g. when you find yourself in a situation where you could use a different ability than you have slotted and cannot equip it because you are not given the choice to use whatever you have learned in the past (which is stupid, because we all have a choice, only ANet denies that fact),
There is far more skill involved in learning how to overcome a broad variety of obstacles using a very limited number of available tools than there is in having a tool for every situation available at all times.
The lack of the foresight to be able to design and build around your needs, requiring the crutch of having every possible tool available at all times, is another indication of lack of capacity on the part of the player.