Guild Wars 2

Let’s see how the pro league pans out. I honestly still think thief is 1 step away from must have.

Ele on the other hand is definitely a must have still. They are the premier on point support class IMHO and open a team up to take revs/necros which are the classes that win team fights to create a snowball

Mesmers are fine in PvP. Any difficulties can be directly tied to user error.

Frequent stacking trumps duration in this game now.

Sad but true

The old core power shatter mesmer is always fun. The +1 damage is insane….just play safe

Rocky.8195:

Metabattle is cookie cutter man my build is already tweaked beyond that. Air provides more damage via single target however does it provide better overall damage than the Might stacks from Strength and Force? And out of all the runes I listed in my 2nd question which of those or maybe ones not listed do you find give the best overall benefit? Also Signit of Agility doesn’t out-trump Withdraw, SS OR bandits. You should never use that it’s a waste considering you should always have over 65% critical chance with the correct spec given you built yourself correctly. I really just want to know the questions I asked preferably from well experienced SPvP thieves that are using D/P to compete in the 2017 tournament. Thank you for your input though I really appreciate it, anybody else have a reply that can answer my questions? It would not only benefit me but I’m sure alot of other SPvP main thieves as well. Thanks again guys.

There’s huge problems with what you are saying. Link your build so I can further help you.

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Azukas.1426:

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

That doesn’t make it right. Why is it that we excuse bad ideas on the forums? Even people who disagree with the changes seem to think it’s okay just because “that’s the way it’s supposed to be”.

I’m not saying its wrong or right on Anet’s part. It’s business and the way things are. As a player you should know this before hand and expect this to happen.

Honestly the players complaining about the nerfs are the ones who are the most wrong in this,situation.

I have to disagree with you about complaining about nerfs being wrong, at least as a general.

There are some things that legitimately need nerfs, but the way they’re done makes the difference, and as of late, the lazy change numbers tactic Anet has been doing simply isn’t what’s needed in a lot of cases. Rather, reworking broken skills, either OP, underperforming, or not working at all, should be looked at more, imo.

Some skills clearly do too much, in damage or function etc, while others don’t function properly at all or are very unreliable. This inconsistency causes a lot of frustration to players on both sides who get tired of seeing it ignored.

Why are you even giving any energy to this? You should have known this was going to happen, and prepared yourself for it like the rest of the world. Revenants were so OP on release and remained so for an entire year. At what point in time did you think that was ok?

Wait you just thought you were good didn’t you?

Why exactly are the players wrong? You say that we are just because of some silly trend that a good number of all companies follow. Revenant is no more overpowered than any existing class. Anything a rev can do in terms of combat, a guard or war can do five times easier.

Our bursts were negated simply by having the enemy be bunched together. Our condition control was/is horrendous without nearby teammates. As of now, it seems our ONLY role is to be a boonbot so other classes can use your swiftness to get to the battle sooner, and use your might and fury to do far more damage than you ever could. We are one of the only classes balanced around having boons permanently attached.
Other classes can still benefit from the boons, but have not suffered in the balance patches despite the ability for them to have these boons too.

Also, why are you trying to dissuade thought that dissents from the choices ArenaNet has made? A forum exists for people to speak, not just for people like you to hear their echoes bounce around.

I do agree with you on one thing however: a rework of all the classes needs to happen.

Revenants mechanics haven’t changed, and good players still perform at a top level. Gone are the fire and forget easy mode choices of the class. You still have all the defensive options, evades, and sustain you did before, but the damage is now more in line with the rest of the game. Still a Revenant on point in a team fight is something to be feared in the right hands

CutesySylveon.8290:

Azukas.1426:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Azukas.1426:

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

That doesn’t make it right. Why is it that we excuse bad ideas on the forums? Even people who disagree with the changes seem to think it’s okay just because “that’s the way it’s supposed to be”.

I’m not saying its wrong or right on Anet’s part. It’s business and the way things are. As a player you should know this before hand and expect this to happen.

Honestly the players complaining about the nerfs are the ones who are the most wrong in this,situation.

I have to disagree with you about complaining about nerfs being wrong, at least as a general.

There are some things that legitimately need nerfs, but the way they’re done makes the difference, and as of late, the lazy change numbers tactic Anet has been doing simply isn’t what’s needed in a lot of cases. Rather, reworking broken skills, either OP, underperforming, or not working at all, should be looked at more, imo.

Some skills clearly do too much, in damage or function etc, while others don’t function properly at all or are very unreliable. This inconsistency causes a lot of frustration to players on both sides who get tired of seeing it ignored.

Why are you even giving any energy to this? You should have known this was going to happen, and prepared yourself for it like the rest of the world. Revenants were so OP on release and remained so for an entire year. At what point in time did you think that was ok?

Wait you just thought you were good didn’t you?

At no point did I say or imply rev being OP was okay, or did I say that it should stay the way it was, so you might as well drop the hostility.

I’m all for bringing the class in line, and said in my previous post that there are OP things that need changing, but that I don’t think simple number changes are the answer in a lot of cases. I’d rather see some things changed in function, and if that in turn nerfs it from its previous position, then fine.

Your caption seems a bit outdated.

So a skill that evades, knocks down on every hit, and did HUGE damage was ok? A skill that is ranged, chills, and does HUGE damage was ok too? The problem is there was big damage on utility skills and a defensive weapon. OFC they are going to gut the damage when its time to nerf the class. You don’t need to be a gifted prophet or have the ability to tell the future to see THAT one coming LOL.

It happened, deal with it, and move on, because this nerf right here was always going to happen.

Fellas this isn’t a kitten and moan thread but a thread for everyone to put out ideas of what they feel is over tuned while telling their current rank. If side discussions commence let’s keep them cordial with the intent to help others understand what counters they can employ.

This helps Evan b/c he’s already stated that they are paying attention to ALL skill levels when they balance. Chocking up the thread with needless drama will only hinder the goals.

Thx

FYI number lock is the default for running thus freeing you up to type.

Also most people who game can pretty much type a quick sentence in like 1 second.

Not all people who type are toxic and most people won’t type unless they really have a,legit reason. A legit reason is definitely telling 3-4 teammates who lose to 2 ppl they need to play better.

coro.3176:

Platinum 2, I think? can’t remember. 1803 rating.

I play condi Reaper in ranked, though I really miss my kits+rifle power Engi gameplay and would love it to be viable in pvp again. It’s just not right now (projectile hate, HoT power creep, etc.).

Anyway.. Balance feels all right. I think some classes offer a bit too much reward for how easy they are to play. I think the gameplay was better before the condi-stacking patch from last year and definitely before HoT.

Necro is focused SO HARD it’s comical sometimes. Players will come from halfway across the map to all jump on me. I get it. Necro is easy to kill because we have no defense aside from 2 dodges and shroud. Our team often ends up on top when they know how to rotate, but I don’t feel like I’m contributing much when I’m jumped by 3 people every time I spawn. Meh. That’s the game I guess.

Things I miss and wish would come back:

• Rifle Engi
• D/D non-healbot ele
• non-stance War

Things I am getting tired of:

• long invulns, long resistance
• auto-proc on cc traits. These are skillless and anti-fun.

Thank you for that. Nice post, and I must say Necro is tough to play in solo q due it’s dependence on support. The problem is if you duo queue’d with an ele/scrapper using TS the necro becomes a monster. I personally focus necros not b/c how easy they are to kill, but because a necro left alone will win the team fights.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Azukas.1426:

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

That doesn’t make it right. Why is it that we excuse bad ideas on the forums? Even people who disagree with the changes seem to think it’s okay just because “that’s the way it’s supposed to be”.

I’m not saying its wrong or right on Anet’s part. It’s business and the way things are. As a player you should know this before hand and expect this to happen.

Honestly the players complaining about the nerfs are the ones who are the most wrong in this,situation.

I have to disagree with you about complaining about nerfs being wrong, at least as a general.

There are some things that legitimately need nerfs, but the way they’re done makes the difference, and as of late, the lazy change numbers tactic Anet has been doing simply isn’t what’s needed in a lot of cases. Rather, reworking broken skills, either OP, underperforming, or not working at all, should be looked at more, imo.

Some skills clearly do too much, in damage or function etc, while others don’t function properly at all or are very unreliable. This inconsistency causes a lot of frustration to players on both sides who get tired of seeing it ignored.

Why are you even giving any energy to this? You should have known this was going to happen, and prepared yourself for it like the rest of the world. Revenants were so OP on release and remained so for an entire year. At what point in time did you think that was ok?

Wait you just thought you were good didn’t you?

Supreme.3164:

All elite specs have been designed only with one purpose in mind : marketing.

Made to sell as many copies of the game as possible, if you want to sell a lot..you need to make your product as accessible as possible but at the same time it must be efficient.

At this point expecting anything different from GW2 expansion n2…it’d be nothing more than wishful thinking.

On a side note, I came to realise something : “expecting collected balance from a PvE oriented game..it’s pure lunacy”.

My final realisation is that GW2 is just a themed park version of GW1 , nothing to be taken seriously here, I laugh at myself for thinking differently in the past..and I laugh at all those who still think to be the second coming of Jesus in a game designed for 10 years old kids ^^

With as angry as you are at this game maybe a small break would be beneficial.

Now back on topic. I recently finished my EU placements and guardians and warriors are just so prevalent in both areas. Something definitely needs to be done about their skill floor

I went 4-6 on my main account placements and got bottom of silver. Horrible teammates and literally had 2-3 thieves a game who all refused to switch. Since then I’m sitting on an 80% win rate and pushing into T2 gold.

On my alt EU account w/out HoT I went 6-4 and placed Mid Gold. Now 2 of those loses were due to people leaving the game so I would have prolly placed Plat on a non HoT account playing with across the ocean lag.

The problem with this season is the placement matches. The rest is awesome and I enjoy playing the season so far.

Ross Biddle.2367:

The fact is, regardless of who thinks this or that is or is not OP, all these “little” problems amount to the same stupid bullkitten. To much of everything easily spammed ad-infinity. Whether it’s burn guards burning, aoe circles, heals, evades, condi applications, cleanses, revs multi-funtional multi-dimensional 1 press assured lottery jackpot buttons. Anywhere things are being spammed spammed spammed are points of bad game design and immediate brokenness. HoT broke the game. Anyone raising these sorts of points is completely justified in doing so. Calling those players names doesn’t change that

You can only play the hand you are dealt. Do I like the spam? No.

But its what you got to work with.

So let’s keep this up and maybe make,a difference, and someone post that burn build so I can give er a run or two

Thx

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

That doesn’t make it right. Why is it that we excuse bad ideas on the forums? Even people who disagree with the changes seem to think it’s okay just because “that’s the way it’s supposed to be”.

I’m not saying its wrong or right on Anet’s part. It’s business and the way things are. As a player you should know this before hand and expect this to happen.

Honestly the players complaining about the nerfs are the ones who are the most wrong in this,situation.

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Revenants are still great in the grand scheme of things. Did these changes bring them down to earth? Yes and it was greatly needed.

The only problem is that every other class is still up in the sky…

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

Revenants are still great in the grand scheme of things. Did these changes bring them down to earth? Yes and it was greatly needed.

bluri.2653:

Thank you for existing Azukas, you are probably the only one who makes sense on this forum, funnily enough you don’t even play thief

Sig’d nm too big of a quote

/cry

Crinn.7864:

Hot Boy.7138:

I take back what I said. Burn guards need a nerf lmao. I had my share of them tonight.

Burn Guard is fine and is honestly slightly underpowered.

Burn DH however needs to die in a ditch somewhere.

Can you post the build so I can play around with it? I generally like to get my hands dirty with the builds/classes people say are OP/Cheese before putting out my opinion on them.

Thanks

Starbreaker.6507:

I don’t get what everyone is complaining about.

According to the PvE circle-jerk on Reddit this season is a blast slumming it down in bronze and sub-30% winrate your way to some sweet gear and if you can’t have fun while doing that then you’re not playing PvP right.

Anet will listen to their joy and pencil this in as “greatest season evah”

This post made me laugh. Thank you, and if this was on the reddit I’d upvote ya

This game it’s pretty much impossible to not have class stacking.

You could enforce non stacking on the grouped players who queue though.

Locuz.2651:

Crowley.8761:

You can’t carry every game, that’s just braggy BS. And you lose twice as much as you gain by winning, kind of eternal treadmill.

Like I keep saying, this system would work for premade teams, it doesn’t work for individuals in a random group. They have to find a way to gauge skill based on individual performance because this right now is crap.

U are playing the blame game.

What about accepting youre not as good as you think you where?

The impact you have goes down once you are close to the MMR where you belong. So if u struggle to carry games at 1300 u probably belong there.

Some games you just can’t carry no matter what you do. I recently had 3 of them.

Now,are all complaints legit about the system? No, but where there is smoke there is fire.

sophiewhite.3149:

Vagrant.7206:

coro.3176:

Alec B.8905:

sitting at zero because I got no engi changes I liked to even bother with pvp :I

WTB more base engi buffs and scrapper nerfs because scrapper screwed base engi.
MORE RIFLE BUFFS PLZ and quit nerfing things out of nowhere without any reason to.

the rifle change was not a buff, it was more loss of dmg. which was the exact opposite if what they were trying to do (bring it up to par with hammer).

Too true. That Jump Shot change feels like a nerf given how hard it is to land such a long telegraphed skill. Maybe if it was faster or had evades..

Things that were (I think) designed to nerf Scrapper, but ended up killing Base Engi even more:

• Gear Shield 3s->2s – Base Engi needs a long block for defense. It is the only defensive skill in a lot of builds.
• Healing Turret 0.5s->0.75s – Base Engi can no longer rely on HT to go off when cast. There’s a very real risk of it being interrupted or destroyed before it finishes. This hurts Scrapper, yes, but it hurts Base more because of the lack of defensive weapon skills on Rifle/Pistol.

Ultimately though, It’s projectile hate and HoT power creep that are forcing certain playstyles on pvp. It’s far too easy to just sit on point and spam aoe.

Here’s what I see when I play p/p Engi:

• Warrior: Ignores conditions for 30+ seconds + reflects on all blocks. Have to kite the ENTIRE time, but first I have to get them to trigger berserker stance.

• Mesmer: Nearly infinite blocks (which also reflect). Then spiked, then back to the temporary invulnerability… spiked, blocks again… I just avoid mesmers because there’s very little I can do.

the amount of misinformation here is insane. 30+ seconds? where are you getting that? because obviously me playing warrior for several months isnt enough.

Let’s remain civil. Educate the misinformation not berate.

Thx

Lordrosicky.5813:

Azukas.1426:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Placement games have a large portion of luck in them, but if you place too high or low then over the season you will gradually move to where you belong.

Its early days

The problem many are experiencing is that they are moving VERY VERY VERY VERY slowly. I know I hit gold and only get 14 MMR per win atm. I had horrible luck with my matchmaking teammates and now climbing is a chore almost with how much i’m getting per win. Wasn’t bad at 27ish per win but now it’ll take a LONG time to just climb out of gold.

Yes i agree. But the season is long so your rating now doesnt matter.

I trolled my placement games and started with a rating of 900 after my placement games. My rating is now 1700 after about 60 games since the placement games.

If you are really rated way too low (as i was at 900) then you will win almost every game for a while and rank up quickly even if its only 15 pts per win. With 30 wins you can gain 450 points that way.

I hit gold in 28 or 29 games. Had 3 losses due to teammates again not properly playing, but i’m moving forward now. The fact you’ve played 60 games since the beginning of the season is concerning.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Azukas.1426:

Ok so DH seems to be a given due to low skill floor vs rewards, and the ability of the class to pubstomp.

Ele seems to be another class that is OP at all skill levels

I’m intrigued by warriors and I think that might be due to lower skill levels not understanding the invulns/blocks/etc on em.

Now I’ve seen some thief is OP posts, and I’d like to get a feel on why. Is it b/c they can control a map and +1 really well. Nothing has changed for thief to make them OP btw.

I’m happy my class mesmer hasn’t really been mentioned so far.

Anyways great replies and keep em coming. It’d be great to get some ESL player feedback here, and maybe a dev too.

keep em coming

Ele is not op at all. It is limited in what it can do. Classes like that are never op. Ele can be killed and cant kill anything ever. So i would actually say ele is the worst class along with necro.

However, both ele and necro can be very strong given the right set up. So balance is really good currently. Necro and ele are limited but both really strong in their narrow roles.

You’re entitled to you your opinion just as anyone else but please post your rank with your ideas of class balance.

As for Ele I was summing up the opinions of the thread. I’ve noticed all skill levels identifying the necessity of having an ele on your team. As for necro not one person has named them. I feel that is not because they are the worst class but due to necros having a proper weakness. You pair a necro with an ele on point and that combo is going to rip people. At that point in time one could argue how strong necros really are.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Placement games have a large portion of luck in them, but if you place too high or low then over the season you will gradually move to where you belong.

Its early days

The problem many are experiencing is that they are moving VERY VERY VERY VERY slowly. I know I hit gold and only get 14 MMR per win atm. I had horrible luck with my matchmaking teammates and now climbing is a chore almost with how much i’m getting per win. Wasn’t bad at 27ish per win but now it’ll take a LONG time to just climb out of gold.

Ok so DH seems to be a given due to low skill floor vs rewards, and the ability of the class to pubstomp.

Ele seems to be another class that is OP at all skill levels

I’m intrigued by warriors and I think that might be due to lower skill levels not understanding the invulns/blocks/etc on em.

Now I’ve seen some thief is OP posts, and I’d like to get a feel on why. Is it b/c they can control a map and +1 really well. Nothing has changed for thief to make them OP btw.

I’m happy my class mesmer hasn’t really been mentioned so far.

Anyways great replies and keep em coming. It’d be great to get some ESL player feedback here, and maybe a dev too.

keep em coming

Ario.8964:

Azukas.1426:

Ario.8964:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

TheDarkSoul.1938:

@Puz, well to that I’d say that most players, unless they’re braindead, wouldn’t hit Headshot whilst you have your weapons stowed anyway. What most Thieves do is what I described; get you low, then hit Headshot a few times because they know that you HAVE to use some sort of weapon/utility skill or at the very least an AA to either recover or counterattack. At the end of the day, unless you have Stab (again, they wouldn’t hit Headshot if you did) they ARE going to interrupt something totally random and at the end of the day, it doesnt really matter what that is because PI, in this scenario, turns Headshot into a skill that does unblockable, undodgeable and stackable damage from range.

Before PI, if I just hit Headshot a couple times every time I got say another Thief below 50%, and all I ended up doing was interrupting an AA, that WOULD have been a waste of initiative and I should, rightly, get punished for it. Now however it’s not a waste of initiative because I’m getting damage out of it for no reason at all. Same as with S/P and Pistol Whip; Should I get rewarded for using it to interrupt a key skill like a heal? Or should I just get spoon-fed an extra 3k guaranteed damage because the guy was in melee range and so probably AAing at the time? The second scenario doesn’t seem very skillful to me.

The point I’m (poorly) trying to make is that yes PI is rewarding properly timed and executed interupts, but it’s also rewarding random use of skills like Headshot that previously were situational and now aren’t so much.

I will play devils advocate here.

Should players be rewarded for missing a dodge/block/invuln while being CC’d and reflect cc back at the source?

Should players be rewarded for failing to use their defenses properly and get auto invulnerable?

It’s not like Thief has the only trait that rewards unskilled play or the only trait that adds Damage to interrupts, there is Distracting Strikes 4 stacks of confusion on interrupt from Warrior which they can chain interrupt players for devasting damage, there is Power Block which is damage and Weakness on interrupt from Mesmer which also increase recharge time, Mesmer can spam Interrupts between its most used weapon sets, Ele has Lightning rod which damages on interrupt and so on.

I mean most players already get free invuln and counter cc so…

Back to the topic:
PI imo is a bad trait. Making a high damage skill that only has to scale off power (So carrion condi builds can do high damage from interrupts as well), has 0 cd, cannot be dodged, and can proc off of aa is bad design choice. Benefitting the player who interrupts is fine (Maybe grant the thief might in interrupt or stab or something of that nature) but giving out extra damage is just not a good choice. The trait doesn’t promote much skill in play when the game is as simple and spam heavy as it is now, instead it serves to carry people who just throw out random cc skills without actually predicting what anyone is doing.

You have contradicted yourself within the same post. You go on to say that PI is low skill because it adds damage but all the other spammable interrupt traits are ok. You then say you just spam HS to win but go on to say it’s quite alright for the other clasers AoE spam to stay in the game.

You know what I do when fighting a,thief using it?

Block
Distortion
Evade frames
LOS
And not spam AA needlessly

And that’s just on my mesmer. On my other classes I got stability that I have access to like candy.

Never once in my post did I condone the presence of other classes’ skills that promote any sort of spam. I did say I would be okay if PI benefitted the thief using it rather than carrying their damage because they are too lazy to set up proper burst combos. I never HS spam to win because I can do damage more effectively the point is it shouldn’t even be an option and for some players it most certainly is a very strong option.

Again, I never condoned the presence of another classes’ spam being in the game but this thread is about 1 trait on the THIEF class, not about what other classes have. If what a Mesmer or Warrior has was in any way relevant to my feelings on PI I’d have said so but it isn’t so they didn’t need to be mentioned.

Edit: I eat most other thieves for breakfast even when they run it so I don’t have any issues fighting it but that doesn’t mean I have to like it being there.

Edit 2: I suck at acronyms so I changed my original post

You have to balance the trait/class/build vs the ENTIRE game. In the grand scheme of things PI is FAR from OP.

If you main necro I could understand your hatred of PI, but the rest of the game should have no problems with it.

Ario.8964:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

TheDarkSoul.1938:

@Puz, well to that I’d say that most players, unless they’re braindead, wouldn’t hit Headshot whilst you have your weapons stowed anyway. What most Thieves do is what I described; get you low, then hit Headshot a few times because they know that you HAVE to use some sort of weapon/utility skill or at the very least an AA to either recover or counterattack. At the end of the day, unless you have Stab (again, they wouldn’t hit Headshot if you did) they ARE going to interrupt something totally random and at the end of the day, it doesnt really matter what that is because PI, in this scenario, turns Headshot into a skill that does unblockable, undodgeable and stackable damage from range.

Before PI, if I just hit Headshot a couple times every time I got say another Thief below 50%, and all I ended up doing was interrupting an AA, that WOULD have been a waste of initiative and I should, rightly, get punished for it. Now however it’s not a waste of initiative because I’m getting damage out of it for no reason at all. Same as with S/P and Pistol Whip; Should I get rewarded for using it to interrupt a key skill like a heal? Or should I just get spoon-fed an extra 3k guaranteed damage because the guy was in melee range and so probably AAing at the time? The second scenario doesn’t seem very skillful to me.

The point I’m (poorly) trying to make is that yes PI is rewarding properly timed and executed interupts, but it’s also rewarding random use of skills like Headshot that previously were situational and now aren’t so much.

I will play devils advocate here.

Should players be rewarded for missing a dodge/block/invuln while being CC’d and reflect cc back at the source?

Should players be rewarded for failing to use their defenses properly and get auto invulnerable?

It’s not like Thief has the only trait that rewards unskilled play or the only trait that adds Damage to interrupts, there is Distracting Strikes 4 stacks of confusion on interrupt from Warrior which they can chain interrupt players for devasting damage, there is Power Block which is damage and Weakness on interrupt from Mesmer which also increase recharge time, Mesmer can spam Interrupts between its most used weapon sets, Ele has Lightning rod which damages on interrupt and so on.

I mean most players already get free invuln and counter cc so…

Back to the topic:
PI imo is a bad trait. Making a high damage skill that only has to scale off power (So carrion condi builds can do high damage from interrupts as well), has 0 cd, cannot be dodged, and can proc off of aa is bad design choice. Benefitting the player who interrupts is fine (Maybe grant the thief might in interrupt or stab or something of that nature) but giving out extra damage is just not a good choice. The trait doesn’t promote much skill in play when the game is as simple and spam heavy as it is now, instead it serves to carry people who just throw out random cc skills without actually predicting what anyone is doing.

You have contradicted yourself within the same post. You go on to say that PI is low skill because it adds damage but all the other spammable interrupt traits are ok. You then say you just spam HS to win but go on to say it’s quite alright for the other clasers AoE spam to stay in the game.

You know what I do when fighting a,thief using it?

Block
Distortion
Evade frames
LOS
And not spam AA needlessly

And that’s just on my mesmer. On my other classes I got stability that I have access to like candy.

Hot Boy.7138:

I think warrior has too much damage, survivability, healing, and CC. It’s an uphill battle for me. I feel as though I can’t make any mistakes or I’m dead, and it’s okay if they make many. I would suggest to the devs to take a good lock at certain warrior builds.

Please list what rank are you. It helps,the devs

FrownyClown.8402:

Ele main here.

Condi mace warrior has obv more sustain than other classes.
Thief needs slightly less evade frames on their staff.
Rev should have some of its dps back (still waiting on mallyx condi meta for boonstrip)
Mesmer zerker build plz (also can contribute to boonstrip)
Thief ever gonna get buff to sword?

All in all, i’d like to see more boon hate and nerf to thief staff while buffing their other weapons

What rank are,ya?

sophiewhite.3149:

gold 1460 atm
cc’s are off the charts. seeing people get completely locked down is insane (as a warrior main ill say warrior is one of the biggest contributors and needs to be toned down)

Thanks for the contribution

Ok I’ve noticed huge participation from the PvP devs on this forum lately so let’s get a thread to collect all views on class Balance.

First let’s set some ground rules.
1. You must state your current PvP rank when posting your opinion on balance. This will help Evan and the gang get a better picture of skill floors/ceilings.
2. This is not the thread to talk down to people, belittle due to lower rank, nor engage in flame fests over favorite classes.

Now I’ll go first. I’m currently in gold at 1386. Had a pretty bad streak of luck on placement matches and got silver. Since then I’m 16-3 and worked myself up to gold.

The issues with classes I see are the low risk high reward builds. DH is the biggest offender. Scrapper and Druid are the next tier of easy success. The highest performing class IMHO is the ele. Once again they are the MANDATORY class to ensure wins.

I welcome all skill levels be it bronze or ESL pros to weigh in and of course our dev team too. Also feel free to give advice, link helpful videos, or even meet up for duels to the lower rank players. We all benefit when someone improves.

Thanks in advance.

Zintrothen.1056:

Evan knows what’s up. Acknowledging the problem is the first step to fixing it.

You still have to get the balance ppl to change things

Honest John.4673:

Azukas.1426:

You currently aren’t getting paid for performance in this season.

Did your performance lead to a win? No? Then why should it pay you?

There is no way to win the game. The system said you lose and thus you lose. Even the best players in the world run into this.

That being said look at the other game mode that uses MMR. WvW you gain ranking by performing above expectations. You lose the week but gain. PvP should be the same

wardspratlin.9107:

Azukas.1426:

I think MMR should be adjusted based on score also. This would motivate players to keep playing even in losing situations.

You get stomped 100-500 you lose 100 points the other team gains them. Now if you lose 498 -500, but the other team was supposed to win big you gain MMR they lose MMR. Now if there are disconnects then the players who stay to play shouldn’t be penalized at all. The winners should get their reward though.

you should never “gain” mmr on a loss maybe lose less sure but never gain.

I’m actually not so sure tbh. There are times when the match making has decided you will lose this game, and there is nothing you can do to stop this from happening. Literally had a game with a core power d/d thief on my team….and he wasn’t the only thief. Our team was playing 4v5. I shouldn’t lose MMR if my team keeps that game close since our total MMR was so low.

You currently aren’t getting paid for performance in this season.

SteepledHat.1345:

Azukas.1426:

SteepledHat.1345:

See the attached image and you too can achieve PvP superiority.

This exemplifies what is wrong with guardian. Previous seasons it was Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, and now guardians. The low risk high reward builds need to be removed from the game period.

This carries bad players to levels they should never attain. All because they use builds that carry the player.

Wouldn’t the player playing less optimally be the bad one? Regardless of the state of guard, you can’t fault the player for doing what is logically the best thing to do.

You don’t get it do you. You should have to put in serious time to perform like that on a guardian. Currently you do not, and that is a problem. Certain players just rotate classes every season playing the easiest class that season. I’m not faulting them i’m actually faulting Anet tbh.

The problem also rears it’s ugly head when those builds get nerfed and the players are at an ELO they have no business being in. They have now become a problem for the 4 other players on their team and that’s not fair to the other 4 players.

I propose to remove this cycle completely by removing low risk high reward builds. You can have low risk mediocre reward builds thats fine for new players, but those builds should never produce really good results.

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Complain about condition seems to be politically correct thing to do.

However, in reality, 6/9 classes are better on power builds. 1 has about equal condition and power builds.

Only necro, mesmer and warrior can legit condition ‘spam’. Even those classes have about 50-50 split on power and condition damage. And you can counter all of them. Necro can’t survive focus fire w/o support. Mesmer is great when isolated but can barely do damage in teamfight because tons of cleave on clones. Warrior damage comes in telegraphed burst. So learn to dodge.

Also, ele and engi super great at condition cleansing and supporting. You have good counter to conditions. Most meta builds have plenty cleanse for self surviving already. You just need to adapt to meta.

The problem the OP is referencing is that the condi builds are less risk vs more reward. Look at the meta classes on meta battle:

Mesmer, Necro, and Warrior all use pure condi builds. Ranger/Ele use more healing bunker type builds. Engi uses paladins, and Guardian, Revenant, and Thief use Mauraders.

Now here’s how I look at it. I see 3 condi classes, 3 Bunker/Bruiser/Support classes, and 3 Power Classes. Even split.

Food for thought

Pure condi builds, but I still can see power on their amulets. Also, if engi is a bruiser then mesm is a bruiser too(pally-sage).
Also, I fall to understand how playing necro is somehow less risk more reward than playing rev or dh

Condi Nec less risk more reward than Power Nec.

You could also classify Rev/DH as bruisers as well considering their survivability, but at the end of the day when you HIT a mesmer you HIT a mesmer. A scrapper using pally amulet doesn’t get hit like that.

I think MMR should be adjusted based on score also. This would motivate players to keep playing even in losing situations.

You get stomped 100-500 you lose 100 points the other team gains them. Now if you lose 498 -500, but the other team was supposed to win big you gain MMR they lose MMR. Now if there are disconnects then the players who stay to play shouldn’t be penalized at all. The winners should get their reward though.

Exciton.8942:

Complain about condition seems to be politically correct thing to do.

However, in reality, 6/9 classes are better on power builds. 1 has about equal condition and power builds.

Only necro, mesmer and warrior can legit condition ‘spam’. Even those classes have about 50-50 split on power and condition damage. And you can counter all of them. Necro can’t survive focus fire w/o support. Mesmer is great when isolated but can barely do damage in teamfight because tons of cleave on clones. Warrior damage comes in telegraphed burst. So learn to dodge.

Also, ele and engi super great at condition cleansing and supporting. You have good counter to conditions. Most meta builds have plenty cleanse for self surviving already. You just need to adapt to meta.

The problem the OP is referencing is that the condi builds are less risk vs more reward. This is true on most classes, and in solo/duo queue low risk high reward builds rule the day.

Now let’s look at the meta classes on meta battle. I’ve noticed different things about what’s viable.

Mesmer, Necro, and Warrior all use pure condi builds. Ranger/Ele use more healing bunker type builds. Engi uses paladins, and Guardian, Revenant, and Thief use Mauraders.

Now here’s how I look at it. I see 3 condi classes, 3 Bunker/Bruiser/Support classes, and 3 Power Classes. Even split.

Food for thought

SteepledHat.1345:

See the attached image and you too can achieve PvP superiority.

This exemplifies what is wrong with guardian. Previous seasons it was Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, and now guardians. The low risk high reward builds need to be removed from the game period.

This carries bad players to levels they should never attain. All because they use builds that carry the player.

PI is fine as is. If it didn’t interrupt on AA then you guys would be again be at more of a disadvantage to ranged attackers than you currently are. You also currently sacrifice your condi cleanse to take the trait which creates a high skilled build with higher rewards.

Also the only way I can see you thieves taking out the eles of today is with PI. W/out it and you dont have the damage to drop them efficiently in a match. Same with druids and other classes.

Thieves are almost back to where they need to be in terms of PvP. Some more nerfs to the meta classes and thieves will be good to go. PI is a trait that will help get you guys there.

Exciton.8942:

Dariya.9380:

The game still tries to force you into 50% win rate. It’s so contradictory it baffles me. This starting season is also a big kittening chaos; as they stated everyone starts the same, matchmaking a disaster so far.

No it doesn’t.
You only get into 50-50 when you are close to your true MMR.

The OP got bad placement games so he ended up way lower than he should be. That is why he won 16 out of 19 game. Work as intended.

Yes thats my one complaint about this season. I think there are many like me who are misplaced and this,is the reason you see unhappiness with the system.

I think if you could get a more accurate placement and faster progression of misplaced players the complaints would drop significantly.

I do enjoy the fast progression through my rewards though ^^

Zintrothen.1056:

Azukas.1426:

sophiewhite.3149:

im probably going to enter mmr hell soon because ive been trying to the achievments. which means playing classes im not that good at or that requires a good team. necro being the best example. i lost a solid 20 games trying to get the 5 wins i needed for the second tier.

Just play your best class until the game is basically over than switch to necro at the end.

Wouldn’t that count as a DC since you switched after the 2 minutes of a game’s start? Or did they change that or did it never work that way? I honestly forget, but I’m pretty sure there was a system in place to punish those who left matches after 2 minutes into a game.

You have a minute or two to get back into the game. If you click logout to char select pic your necro you’ll auto log into the match

sophiewhite.3149:

im probably going to enter mmr hell soon because ive been trying to the achievments. which means playing classes im not that good at or that requires a good team. necro being the best example. i lost a solid 20 games trying to get the 5 wins i needed for the second tier.

Just play your best class until the game is basically over than switch to necro at the end.

Lionwait.4815:

There are three things that make theif’s over powered::

1. Options snap ground target to current target. This makes staff 5 skill to easy.

The Fix: Disable this option function to work on staff 5

1. Bandit’s Defense utility skill is a break stun, block & knockdown..

The Fix: Remove the break stun

1. Escapist’s absolution removes a condition when you evade an attack 1 second interval.

The Fix: Make it 2 seconds of a interval.

None of that is even remotely true.

1. Did you see the spamwhich necro video where the dood played necro with his face using snap ground target? That’s broken. Vault is almost a skill shot due to you having to aim where the player WILL be not where they currently ARE.

2. Bandits can really get old. I’ve had my moments where I just hate the kitten skill, but in the grand scheme of things its a short duration block that stun breaks. The thief doesn’t move away instantly but stands there. That’s the balance. Punish the thief standing there.

3. Escapist absolution is easy to counter. Condi burst and stop attacking. That simple bro.

So I have to applaud Anet on the complete overhaul of the system. Is it perfect? No but no pvp game has a perfect system. What I really enjoy is the fact you separated the Pip Rewards from the MMR/ELO/Ranking/etc. Great move /applaud. I like the fact you went so far as a soft reset with placement matches. Again I applaud. I do understand that currently everything is settling and people are seeing themselves sliding into where they are actually supposed to be.

This leads to the one problem I’ve noticed with your system. The actual placement matches themselves. 1st of all whoever thought it was a good idea to have it Thief day for daily achievements on the start of the PvP season needs to be let go. That was STUPID beyond belief. Now I personally went 4-6 in my placement matches. I literally had the worst luck/teams in my 10 games. I mean 2-3 thieves on my team every game. Some games that I won were completely in my team’s favor, and then there were 2 where I carried sooooo hard with clutch portals, moas, and 1v1’s.

So that wraps up and I went 4-6 and got my MMR of 1050 at the bottom of silver baby! So instead of kittening and moaning I said “Let’s see what this season offers.” So I started to play and now my record went from 4-6 to 20-9 and I just hit the gold division. Hrmm. Since my placement matches I’ve gone 16-3 and those 3 loses were b/c my teammates were something special indeed, and it felt like the game wanted me to lose.

How is this possible?

On the flip side I’ve fought a few people who were on the other team and they placed platinum on their placements. They’ve lost so much they are now silver. Hrmm.

So I think next season the placement matches need to be reworked, and a fail safe for improperly placed players needs to be implemented. Like lets say a player starts to really stack up the wins. Maybe there should be something inplace to jump their MMR up by like 100. I was getting 17-22 MMR a match. This might help get players where they need to be quicker.

Otherwise the season seems great. I know it’ll take like 100 matches for a person MMR to settle, and I’ll post my thoughts once the dust settles. I hope I see this system really settle in tbh.

Lettuce.2945:

That awkward moment when 75% of thread doesn’t know staff 3 removes immobilize but resumes arguing about how staff and dp thieves are kitten if they use bound against immobilize…………whispers my bruh….use staff 3.

I knew and I don’t “teef”……..

ValusArtex.1425:

Literally the worst season lol.

No its isn’t

apharma.3741:

Anything with boon removal or corruption is going to eat them alive. If you see a 5 man ele team bring a necro or 2 and enjoy the free win.

Problem with that is they can cross clear each other’s condis.