Guild Wars 2

Yes this is true. There are not enough condi clears in the game for most classes to deal with the condition application. Next you have to look how these conditions are applied.

I main mesmer so I’ll use that as an example. Currently you are applying conditions from all your shatters. Power really only has F1 to apply their burst, and they have to combo it with weapons skills, cc, etc. The condition build not so much.

Now don’t get me wrong the best players in the world combine the combos required to make power work with the condition build, but you can have a good amount of success without that. Power you cannot.

The general rule of thumb is that this is true for all classes.

JayAction.9056:

Azukas.1426:

I dont’ see any problems with the nerfs

I mean, you probably wouldn’t if you were not one of the people that could already beat rev consistently at legend level. You’re not exactly the target of the post nor the type of person i’d be referring to as an impossible match up for rev…

Legend means nothing.

The fix to the daggers puts in line with all the other skills that work like it. Look at thieves heal venom.

Sorry but Revs will be a must pick on all pro teams for PvP. You will see great representation in the ranked season as well due to the insane damage output combined with the inherent survivability of the class.

Going on about these insignificant nerfs is bad form and ill advised.

As for the bug list that goes on and on….that’s every class.

It’s time for people to realize this is the Xpac class and significant nerfs on it won’t happen until the next class gets released.

I dont’ see any problems with the nerfs

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The only place Thief isn’t very strong is in the very competitive scene that you don’t care about.

Actually I said I don’t care if DH was in Pro League meta they needed to remove that build or make it require skill to play. Please read the entire post before trying to rebuttal

Condition Mesmer is a skillful build, despite it not being the Power Shatter that you prefer.

Power Shatter is leaps and bounds more skillful than condi. It’s not even close in terms of how much skill is required.

Power Scrapper was too strong. They nerfed the Gyro daze and the rezzes. They buffed condis to try to open up build diversity.

Condi in this game requires less skill to get results. That’s why I pegged it a miss. I applaud build diversity, but I want skillful gameplay more so

Revenant should have taken more hits. I agree.

They still want to sell HoT boxes so I don’t expect this to happen anytime soon

You’re missing the biggest nerf to Druid. The increase in CA cd from 10 to 15 seconds is MASSIVE.

We’ll see. I was wanting a removal of brain dead burst pet damage on a bunker spec’d player. Druid is one of my least played classes so I have to say we’ll see and take others words for it. The pet was why I said miss

Necromancer they did the same thing as Scrapper. They toned down the current meta slightly while buffing alternatives.

I’d like to see power necro become a thing tbh. It has good potential if Anet can do it right….which they didn’t

I think Elementalist was already strong and will continue to be strong. I see nothing wrong with it here.

They buffed their sustain from what I can see. This generally leads to problems with ele, and we’ll have to see how it pans out. Hopefully it just adds build diversity, but I’m skeptical

Revenant needs slight nerfs. Thief needs slight buffs. Your problems with Warrior and Dragonhunter are L2P issues, and this has been proven time and time again.

Thief needs more than slight buffs. Literally the way to deal with a thief is ignore it at ALL levels of gameplay. (Ranked Seasons players tend to play 2 points instead of the 3 point rotation due to zero Voice Coms) That eliminates the impact a thief brings to the table since thieves can’t 1v1 anyone in the game. I didn’t say I had problems with warriors or DH’s. I said I had problems with effective they are in terms of how easy they are to play. That’s the most tragic part of this patch IMHO. You read these forums or any forums about GW2, and the general consensus is that GW2 requires minimal skill. That’s the reputation that Anet has built here, and this patch was an opportunity to steer the game in a better direction….and they failed.

Matt Stacey.7415:

Mark it on your calendars everyone. It has been formally made clear that WvW is more important a gamemode than PVE. For those other mesmers like myself who do not WvW much and now suffer as a result of this, I feel for you!

As a mesmer I’m happy with the changes, and think they were a great change for all mesmers.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

We got off easy on this patch let it go

Nerf missed us, hit thief/rev/guard/necro instead. Instead, now double chrono is required.

Honestly I’m impressed. It’s sorta ironic that the nerf removing thief/rev/guard from the meta is actually a nerf to mesmer, not to those classes specifically.

It amazes me how people fail to see glaring problems with this game and can only tunnel vision onto 1 class…..

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The downstate change will likely heavily affect both Scrappers and Druids. The Celestial Avatar change will hurt Druids tremendously. Those two classes taking hits will make Warrior stronger relative to Reaper, since it has more personal survivability, as well as being strong versus the current strongest support, Tempest. I don’t see Mesmer getting pushed out of the competitive scene unless more people start playing Dragonhunter, but Dragonhunter isn’t weak to begin with. The only glaring issue I see is that Thief really did need some slight buffs. It’s strong in solo queue, and is still strong in competitive play, but it’s too much of a risk for such low pay off. Anyway, look to see what the first couple changes I mentioned do to the meta before you complain.

Now Warriors and Guardians current builds do not require skill. The fact they left the guardian build in is perhaps the worst part of this entire patch. I don’t care if it’s not in pro league they need to have these builds require skill to succeed. Huge misses here.

Thief needed a significant buff to get included in the meta or significant nerfs to the other classes. Right now you are hurting your team going into season 5 if you play a thief. I fully expect all players to verbally abuse ppl who choose to play thief next season. Thief has historically been a very high skill class that excites spectators on streams….huge miss

My main class, mesmer, remains a must pick in competitive play. I’m really upset they kept the condi shatter build instead of promoting power shatter for more skillful gameplay. Another huge miss on Anet’s part.

Engi….they buffed condi….Miss

Revenant maintains insane damage with survivability. A must pick for ALL competitive teams…Miss

Druid didn’t receive the proper change to have pets have the same stats of player. You want a burst from pet you need to build glass….Miss. Now the other changes will have to play out b/c they actually received a healing buff in this patch when using menders.

Necro ah one of my favorite classes. Buffs to power necro, but overall I don’t see it replacing the current condi builds. I actually support this even if its a lil weak

Ele….tough to call, but Anet generally over buffs ele to the point of brokenly OP. I’m optimistic and hopeful we’ll see a nice emergence of a balanced ele, but they may have gotten too much sustain. We’ll see.

Overall terrible patch.

Disappointed with the balance team on this patch. I was hoping for a nice shake up of the meta that would promote skillful game play. Now it’s going to take some time for the meta to shake out, but I don’t see enough changes to include the weaker classes from last season.

Now I could be wrong, especially at the pro level, but a normal season is going to be more of the same.

I feel bad for you thief players tbh.

Not enough love or nerf of other classes to let you not be the worst class in the game

We got off easy on this patch let it go

Mantras need absolutely no changes. The fact we can get 3 insta stuns, 3 insta damage, 3 decent insta heals, etc is insane. The payment for that is paid for before the fight, and then again guaranteed success at minimum once during combat. (Channel during stealth/distortion)

Also how many opponents have the ability to actually reliably interrupt us?

Thief is the ONLY reliable class in today’s current meta.

Tomorrow is Tuesday the 18th.

Will we see a balance patch or will we once again be left in the dark?

phokus.8934:

Personally, I wish they would give us back the start of recharge upon charging a mantra.

Again it’s OP that way. You could blow all your recharges right after one another and immediately recharge safely for anothe round. No need to bait stun breaks or dodges just fire away.

It was broken

Fay.2357:

Hate to say this, but I agree with Azukas. Providing stability to mantras diminishes the basic concept of mantras themselves.

The concept here is risk to channel providing a substantial bonus in the form of powerful instant skills if you succeed at the channel. The risk/reward here is based on balancing the reward so that it’s strong enough to justify the risk. If you diminish/remove the risk, then there’s no room for a useful reward.

The way to fix mantras is to make them actually worth channeling. This could be done through increasing the stack size, providing more traits that interact with them, boosting the raw strength of the skills, or probably other ways that I’m not mentioning.

4+ uses on mantras would be broken under the current system. Just taking 4 heals and stuns would be stupidly OP.

While it would be great it would be unbalanced. Mantras weakness is when you have to recharge them. The huge tells and time it takes is the price you pay for 2-3 insta spells.

You remove the weakness of them and I’d have to advocate for a complete neutering of the actual skills after charging.

Valdenroth.6530:

Thought you quit, ah well. Nice vid, but why do you like bound more than unhindered combatant, just personal preference?

Because of the uninterruptable ability to stealth, and the fact bound can do up to 4k AoE damage……

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Why do people insist on calling it a balance patch?
Has it ever been balanced?..or just one hot mess after another?
When is the next hot mess likely to take effect?

Well played

What’s prolly going to happen is a baseline nerf so severe that the healing power buff will heal for less than prepatch

Seems like they are going after boon share. I’m not surprised nor concerned.

The druid nerf Inc is nice to see tbh

Deathrubber.3861:

this game is pve mainly. steady pvp players like u and me are left with therories and assumptions only.

I no longer steady my pvp here

otetas.9675:

Its probably this upcoming 18 when the halloween patch comes.

They should say that then b/c pve patches are usually not included in pvp patches

It’s fine as is,and needs no changes

Kuya.6495:

Even thf is still useful in solo q. It’s just the only class i never want to see stacked though since it actually requires the thf to know how to rotate. Unless he runs condi evade spam thf.

Problem with thief solo q is they have to top 5% in terms of player skill and be facing significantly lower skilled opponents.

In today’s game it’s very likely to see 2-3 DHS with druids/scrappers opposite of the thief. In those situations a thief is a detriment to your team.

Kuya.6495:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Extended-Off-Season-and-Other-Updates/first

Doesn’t pertain to my topic other than the opaqueness of “this month”

Guess the end of the month huh?

Can we get more transparency and communication from the team?

Kuya.6495:

Despite the ccmplaints, there currently is no class that is considered so weak that it will lose you the game in soloq. The two classed that could be argued to be lowest on the totem pole (ele and necro) are used in tournaments while all the other classes are perfectly good to bring to solo q.

Currently thief is the worst class in the game.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

staff thief – take scepter over sword. the block and the 5 torment will hurt him
DH – dont fight on point – you cant. he has great condi cleanse so you just cant.
druid – scepter also good here but sword also useful. sometime i love to burst his pet so he switch them and focus on heal them than its more easy time for me. the main objective is to try to decap the point and leave portal so he have to stay for 2 min while my team does 5v4 elsewhere

Can’t dodge the torment application if I remember correctly, and the channel skill will make him blow dodges. This can open up the thief to a nice shatter.

Good advice

Torment is easily dodgeable, just dodge after you see the block pop up. You can even block the torment application itself if you have one available.

I pretty sure you can’t block the torment only the ether bolt that is cast on counter. I thought the torment was applied on block not counter.

I could be wrong but I don’t remember ever having anyone block/dodge it on me.

The way the skill goes is you get hit, the block icon shows up, and then about .25s later a hit-scan attack with 900 range applies the 5 stacks of torment. That hit-scan attack is blockable and dodgeable like any normal attack.

A trick you can do as a mesmer is that you can purposefully proc the block of another mesmer, and then block their counter-attack with your block, applying torment that way and avoiding their counter.

I’ll have to test this but until then a 1/4th of a second counter is pretty tough to dodge.

In a semi-recent patch, the delay between block and counter was drastically shortened. It used to be much longer, closer to .5 seconds.

It’s still very possible to dodge if you’re expecting it. The tell of the counter is obvious and easy to react to. It does, however, still take someone paying attention with good reflexes. It’s definitely a non-trivial thing to pull off now.

Never had an issue landing it when being smart with the block.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

staff thief – take scepter over sword. the block and the 5 torment will hurt him
DH – dont fight on point – you cant. he has great condi cleanse so you just cant.
druid – scepter also good here but sword also useful. sometime i love to burst his pet so he switch them and focus on heal them than its more easy time for me. the main objective is to try to decap the point and leave portal so he have to stay for 2 min while my team does 5v4 elsewhere

Can’t dodge the torment application if I remember correctly, and the channel skill will make him blow dodges. This can open up the thief to a nice shatter.

Good advice

Torment is easily dodgeable, just dodge after you see the block pop up. You can even block the torment application itself if you have one available.

I pretty sure you can’t block the torment only the ether bolt that is cast on counter. I thought the torment was applied on block not counter.

I could be wrong but I don’t remember ever having anyone block/dodge it on me.

The way the skill goes is you get hit, the block icon shows up, and then about .25s later a hit-scan attack with 900 range applies the 5 stacks of torment. That hit-scan attack is blockable and dodgeable like any normal attack.

A trick you can do as a mesmer is that you can purposefully proc the block of another mesmer, and then block their counter-attack with your block, applying torment that way and avoiding their counter.

I’ll have to test this but until then a 1/4th of a second counter is pretty tough to dodge.

Cynz.9437:

Treat the disease not the symptoms. Boon access on some classes needs nerfing, boon strip is fine as it is.

Rev herald line can’t be treated. The rest of the culprits are just as bad. The amount of work needed to go through and fix all the professions compared to my proposal caters to this dev team

Tomiyou.3790:

Azukas.1426:

Tomiyou.3790:

I think messing with boon strip can be a dangerous game to play. Some builds entirely depend on boons to survive or at least mitigate majority of damage (ele without protection is a dead ele, revenant needs his boons to function properly, tho I doubt it will destroy them if they lose them).
If boon strip became more a thing, it’s priority system would have to be changed. Or just make skills that have it have a clear tell they are coming.

The problem remains is the best tank for the majority of this game’s life has been Ele. Let’s introduce a meta where boons aren’t just fire and forget. Let’s introduce a meta where these boon heavy classes (which generally require less skill) have a solid counter in stripping them.

The problem now is you can strip some boons only to have those same boons applied a second later. I think if you strip a boon that player should have a period of time where they can’t benefit from that boon. I say somewhere in the ball park of 6-10 seconds where you can’t benefit from said boon.

An ele without boons is a dead ele, so if they introduce such a hard counter, it would be also necessary to make eles less dependant on boons. Not that it wouldn’t be a good thing.

That’s the point in these boon heavy classes. Strip them then kill then fast. I would vote for Necro/Thief to be the anti boon classes. I thought mesmerizing would be good too but conditions shatter with that type of boon removal would be broken

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

staff thief – take scepter over sword. the block and the 5 torment will hurt him
DH – dont fight on point – you cant. he has great condi cleanse so you just cant.
druid – scepter also good here but sword also useful. sometime i love to burst his pet so he switch them and focus on heal them than its more easy time for me. the main objective is to try to decap the point and leave portal so he have to stay for 2 min while my team does 5v4 elsewhere

Can’t dodge the torment application if I remember correctly, and the channel skill will make him blow dodges. This can open up the thief to a nice shatter.

Good advice

Torment is easily dodgeable, just dodge after you see the block pop up. You can even block the torment application itself if you have one available.

I pretty sure you can’t block the torment only the ether bolt that is cast on counter. I thought the torment was applied on block not counter.

I could be wrong but I don’t remember ever having anyone block/dodge it on me.

messiah.1908:

staff thief – take scepter over sword. the block and the 5 torment will hurt him
DH – dont fight on point – you cant. he has great condi cleanse so you just cant.
druid – scepter also good here but sword also useful. sometime i love to burst his pet so he switch them and focus on heal them than its more easy time for me. the main objective is to try to decap the point and leave portal so he have to stay for 2 min while my team does 5v4 elsewhere

Can’t dodge the torment application if I remember correctly, and the channel skill will make him blow dodges. This can open up the thief to a nice shatter.

Good advice

Not good due to the fact that Anet can’t implement the 1 class per team in ranked play. I feel if they could do that then it would be much better.

OR

They could actually balance the game better, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon going off their track record.

LOL thief is going to get a condi spec/weapon stop kidding yourselves.

Tomiyou.3790:

I think messing with boon strip can be a dangerous game to play. Some builds entirely depend on boons to survive or at least mitigate majority of damage (ele without protection is a dead ele, revenant needs his boons to function properly, tho I doubt it will destroy them if they lose them).
If boon strip became more a thing, it’s priority system would have to be changed. Or just make skills that have it have a clear tell they are coming.

The problem remains is the best tank for the majority of this game’s life has been Ele. Let’s introduce a meta where boons aren’t just fire and forget. Let’s introduce a meta where these boon heavy classes (which generally require less skill) have a solid counter in stripping them.

The problem now is you can strip some boons only to have those same boons applied a second later. I think if you strip a boon that player should have a period of time where they can’t benefit from that boon. I say somewhere in the ball park of 6-10 seconds where you can’t benefit from said boon.

Curunen.8729:

Azukas.1426:

Curunen.8729:

Azukas.1426:

I predict something extremely OP compared to chrono

I predict a nerf (breaking) of every current elite spec before launch and every new elite spec being even more powerful than the state of all the current elite specs.

Nah because you can’t use 2 elite specs. The only way they are going to break former elites is if previous xpacs become f2p. Otherwise I believe they’ll just introduce another huge power creep into the,game.

The point is current elite specs will be weaker to encourage sales of the new expansion/elite specs. Otherwise how many would bother buying if Chrono was on par (or potentially stronger than) with Mirage at initial release.

Sure 6 months after release I’d imagine both elite specs will be equalised, but not initially.

No the new elite spec will be the only way to play Mesmer competitively by design. It’ll go Mirage > Chrono > Core, and it will prolly be this way for all classes.

I’m honestly scared wtf they are going to introduce in this next go around b/c the last xpac was so bad in regards to balance.

So basically we aren’t getting a balance patch anytime soon

Ivantreil.3092:

Meanwhile thiefs….

That’s funniest part of this whole argument. There are classes that are legitimately hurting and not pushed out of the meta just because something else is too strong.

Warriors are fine and need nothing.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Amins.3710:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Jeknar.6184:

With all the dodges Thief got from daredevil, I wonder if they still need that severe reliance on stealth that everyone says they have.

what dodges? you do realise that we only have 1 head start dodge and after that we back on the same amount of dodges as you

Fat – that might have been the dumbest thing I’ve read today. Only 1 more dodge than everyone else? Riiiiiight.

1) Endless Staminia – Hard to Catch – Feline Grace.
2) Brawlers’ Tenacity – Endurance Thief
3) Channeled Vigor -

That is all you need to pretty much be able to spam dodge and evades (initiative based skills).

Add some stealth to it via Pistol off hand and GG.

yea ok, fair point about acro tree but who even runs acro and dd line, where is your dmg? you can’t hurt anyone (unless you go condi)

20 endurance is nothing although the heal skill channaled vigor is pretty strong.

Acro and DD is legit in WvW. Staff, D/D, S/D, and even D/P can own on it. In fact power based dual daggers is insane running it.

Simple…..you don’t unfortunately

Curunen.8729:

Azukas.1426:

I predict something extremely OP compared to chrono

I predict a nerf (breaking) of every current elite spec before launch and every new elite spec being even more powerful than the state of all the current elite specs.

Nah because you can’t use 2 elite specs. The only way they are going to break former elites is if previous xpacs become f2p. Otherwise I believe they’ll just introduce another huge power creep into the,game.

Huh where were these changes stated?

I predict something extremely OP compared to chrono

Kuya.6495:

Azukas.1426:

Kuya.6495:

Azukas.1426:

JayAction.9056:

No its not even close to being balanced.

Every class should have a 50/50 chance vs every other class but that’s not the case. Too many hard counters in this game

You’re using a fighting game’s definition of balance as opposed to a team based game’s definition of balance.

I think you’re just playing the wrong game. Go play super smash brothers or marvel vs capcom instead. Beware though, there are top picks there too.

while my definition would promote a significantly more balanced game.

You’re right. I’m wrong.

Thanks

Kuya.6495:

Azukas.1426:

JayAction.9056:

No its not even close to being balanced.

Every class should have a 50/50 chance vs every other class but that’s not the case. Too many hard counters in this game

You’re using a fighting game’s definition of balance as opposed to a team based game’s definition of balance.

I think you’re just playing the wrong game. Go play super smash brothers or marvel vs capcom instead. Beware though, there are top picks there too.

Yet this game is failing in the balance department 1 meta after another while my definition would promote a significantly more balanced game.

The supposed way you are preaching would work if Anet knew how to properly balance it. They’ve proven for the last 4 years that they can’t. It’s so bad that for the pro league they put in the 1 class per team rule b/c they can’t balance the game properly.

Let’s put emphasis on skill not build.

JayAction.9056:

The game is pretty balanced 1v1 with the exception of a few outliers. In most scenarios, skill can overcome, or build tweaks can make up for disadvantages. If you don’t agree, I can almost guarantee you’re not very good.

That being said you are always going to have a class that’s best at something and a class that’s the worst.

No its not even close to being balanced.

Every class should have a 50/50 chance vs every other class but that’s not the case. Too many hard counters in this game

They need to simplify their balancing. Go with 3 categories of abilities when balancing each class.

1. Team Fighting
2. 1v1
3. Mobility

Each class should be able to do 2/3, but not 3/3. Being able to do all things in game creates classes that are OP, and in need of nerfing.

Mesmer is fine and a great profession

This is old. I saw this 4 months ago