Guild Wars 2

Frostball.9108:

SOLO “Mesmer – Mesmer has taken a lot of defensive hits, resulting in it losing a lot more 1v1s. Thieves are more prevalent in solo queue, so Portal isn’t as useful. In team fights, other classes are always stronger. I considered putting Mesmer in C Tier, but I don’t think it deserves it quite yet. Regardless, Mesmer is probably the weakest class from a solo queue perspective.” Mesmer has taken defensive hits, but they havent been hits large enough to place mesmer anywhere below S in soloq unless youre not good simply because well you can do just about anything as mesmer.

“Engineer – While Scrapper took some hits to its Hammer skills, it’s probably the best defensive carry for solo queue based almost solely on the rez potential. It’s just as versatile as the Revenant, but with slightly more defensive tendencies.” Are you kidding me? Engi probably has one of the smallest impacts on how a game flows in soloq, while it is nice to have one, you need something to back it up and well you just cant trust in other people when it comes to soloq.

COMP “Mesmer – Mesmer is a tricky one to place. Unless Thief is meta, Mesmer is going to be an option because of the pure utility supplied by Portal. It’s more difficult to play in the current meta because of the nerfs to defensive cooldowns, but when played well it can bring a lot to the team.” Thief is not in “meta” at the moment as far as i know and probably even if it was mesmer would be close to S tier but for the moment it most definitely is S tier, a good mesmer can control the whole game. You simply cannot play without a mesmer and still be on the same level with other teams that are using mesmer, it is a must have in every competitive team for now, youll always be handicapped if you dont have one. Keep in mind im not saying its impossible to win without one, it just makes it harder.

There are probably more things that i didnt notice at first glance but those are the things that especially stuck out to me.

Edit: I dont see how me being banned affects this in any way as it has nothing to do with my game knowledge. If you want to take something out of it why not concentrate on how we managed to win a game even though i was playing with fairly subpar players vs a supposedly top team?

Wow he brought the heat.

tobascodagama.2961:

Frostball.9108:

both of these lists are incorrect

Such reasoning. Much evidence. Wow.

He’s a pro league player who plays mesmer in the EU league. His team actually has been in the finals, and should have been last season.

You take the NA player’s PoV but not the EU player who is more accomplished, successful, and just down right knows mesmer better?

Levetty.1279:

I don’t know why I’m still bothering to use basic logic to refute your points but you have just admitted in your lasts posts that Guardian beats Mesmer and the better PvP teams don’t see the need in bringing a class along to counter the Mesmer both of which prove it isn’t the OP God mode class you think it is.

There’s more to PvP than being able to counter a single class. If that were the case then there’s lots of builds that would be played in high level pvp. Take for example Ross and his power rifle warrior. Completely unviable at any level competitive play.

So it doesn’t matter if our class is countered b/c you have to have that counter be viable in a competitive atmosphere.

Havardmj.8570:

Well starting off with the hardest class probably was a mistake
Try something easy before you roll mesmer.
Like guardian, warrior or thief

No.

Transfer to a staple server that is guaranteed to stay where they are.

These are Maguuma, BG, TC, and JQ. They will always stay in the upper tiers due to the main servers having enough population

Levetty.1279:

So if we are saying that Condi Chrono got buffed by nerfs to other classes then surely Condi Chrono got nerfed due to the very good Gaurdian build that can handle condies very easily?

What am I saying, this still probably counts as a buff to Chrono in Azukas’ eyes.

Problem is we haven’t seen it become meta. At this point in time we saw EU run mesmers and NA run guardians. You also have to remember there’s like one good NA mesmer in the pro league to EU’s many.

So at this point in time since EU > NA i’ll have to side with Mesmer as being Meta since 4 were ran to 1 guardian. I also said we need to wait and see if the meta shakes out more.

OriOri.8724:

You haven’t provided any evidence. Please for the love of god stop saying that because its a flat out lie. All you have provided is your own opinions, and your “evidence” consists of you saying stuff without any sources or reasonings behind it. Repeatedly saying over and over that mesmers are overpowered doesn’t magically make it true. Likewise repeatedly saying over and over that all ESL players agree with you, despite this not even being the case, and again without statements from every player, not even a handful for that matter, doesn’t make it true. And even if all of them did agree with you, none of them think that mesmer is taken for their damage, none.

You have provided literally no evidence whatsoever to support your claims. All you have done is use ad hominem attacks, repeat yourself, and refuse to even listen to detailed and backed up arguments that go against your opinion all the while passing said opinion off as fact. Stop. This is getting ridiculous at this point and is borderline spam.

If you can provide real evidence (and no, saying that you don’t agree with us, or saying that nerfing other classes is an “indirect buff” to mesmer is not evidence) all of us are willing to look it over and take it into consideration. But so far you have failed to provide any evidence, period. Stop spamming this thread unless you are ready to actually back up your claims with real evidence.

We mesmers got buffed everywhere EVEN condi. The rest of the patch does indeed help the condi build unfortunately

That was my original post in this thread. I then said our main build was indirectly buffed through all the nerfs to other classes.

What part of that isn’t factual? What part is ad hominem?

Lots of stab/blocks out there though. I’ve been playing typical condi shatter with power shatter sprinkled in. I’ve noticed this when I’m on power a lot

DH is EASY to play. Scrapper is, while easy too, a wee bit harder to play

OriOri.8724:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4y2p1w/pvp_class_tier_lists/

Frostball.9108:

both of these lists are incorrect

I think i’ll stick with Frostball’s assessment for obvious reasons

If by “obvious” you mean that its because neither of you have any real arguments hence why you are leaving them out then yes, the reason is very obvious

Frostballs team barring certain circumstances should have been playing 55 in the last pro leagues finals. The person who made that list is of a NA team who can’t even sniff the finals.

Like I said stick with frosts assessment.

Exciton.8942:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4y2p1w/pvp_class_tier_lists/

Frostball.9108:

both of these lists are incorrect

I think i’ll stick with Frostball’s assessment for obvious reasons

Erzian.5218:

Burn.5401:

Season 3 > Season 2 >>>>>> Season 4 > Season 1

Kind of sucks, that your own performance actually influences the outcome of your matches in season 4, huh?

No it doesn’t

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Hey would never remove revealed then everyone would complain of thief op and engi op even more attacking while sitting in Stealth gyro

I shudder when I think of a scrapper w/out reveal

Frostball.9108:

both of these lists are incorrect

Wait a player on a non relevant NA team has made a tier list that’s pretty much full of kitten???

Who would have thought…

Cynz.9437:

Azukas.1426:

Cynz.9437:

dmndbcK.3425:

Tbh bro, maybe you should just learn from Min Scherzo. He’s the only guy I’ve found who play’s thief that actually kills all of the above specs you mentioned with ease.

Your suggested nerfs are nothing more then voices of the hundreds of casuals who cry about things not dieng when they are just stupid at the game. As a thief, you shouldn’t be a) fighting DH’s, Wars, Rangers alone. b) running anything but d/p, staff in ranked and c) complaining about requiring nerfs when you can perma-cleave for days.

You have essentially named all of the current best specs and their traits/skills that make them the best. However, what you haven’t named are good player’s in top-tier that play them and show you that they are OP.

In casual play, sapphire division and below you will see that these builds destroy people who obviously have no idea what the dodge keys or immobilize is. Outside of that, you will rarely find good power warriors/dh’s/engi’s in upper diamond/legendary division. With this being said, no salt required. It’s time to start learning how-to not rely on your backstab so much and start innovating.

tl;dr OP is probably just another guy who is salty about getting slain on his thief consistently because he is not willing to innovate and adjust to change.
just my 2c

Innovate on thief lol

Meanwhile anet keeps nerfing every weapon set almost every single patch

Why don’t other classes get to “innovate”? Why it is always thieves that have to adapt to non-stop nerfs while every other class is literary on auto-pilot?

Why don’t we bring other classes to thief level? Oh wait, suddenly you wouldn’t be able to reach even ruby and talk crap to other posters.

Rarely find good war/dh/engi in upper divisions? I am in diamond right now and there is always multiple wars, engis, druids and dhs in every single match.

I introduce you to the Acro Trick DD staff thief.

That build along with the D/D variant are pretty much an atrocity to what thief should be.

Funny enough i kill those thieves with some timing. The actual trouble i have vs other dp meta thieves that know wth they are doing.

Unless you are camping stealth you aren’t going to win vs a,good opponent.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Carighan.6758:

Azukas.1426:

What proof did you choose to ignore?

Meta in PvE
Meta in WvW
Meta in PvP

To reiterate what the person you quoted said: This is lacking proof that Mesmer is OP.

Think about it:

1. You say “Meta”, but let me guess, the alternative is “not meta”? In other words it’s a binary thing, either you’re in or out?
2. It follows that if you’re “out”, your class/spec is too weak and needs help, yes?
3. It follows that if you’re “in” (“meta”, that is, stupid as a term that is because a meta “has” something, you’re aren’t meta outside of single player games), then you aren’t underpowered, yes.
4. False Dilemma then gives us that this doesn’t imply that you’re overpowered if you are part of the meta.

You can actually construct the argument the other way around (“No one should be meta, if you’re part of the meta you are automatically OP!”), but then you eliminate the desire for something to be the preferred approach to a given situation.
I hope it is immediately obvious why that won’t work. :P

The EU rejects all forms of reasoned and/or logic based argument. Therefor it’s not obvious and you’re wrong.

/Not biased because I’m actually American – proof – or something.

Welcome back from your bank I did enjoy the video. Though next time plz use portal lol

As for that no im NA. I do have a f2p on EU that I’ll jump on to kill some euros every now and then

Burtnik.5218:

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

The point of weapon skills costing energy was low cd’s on them (see 2sec CoR vs 4sec True Shot as example). This is no longer the case as over time they raised cd’s and they match other classes right now. At this point they need to get rid of energy consuption from wep skills or revert cd nerfs. Right now its double punishment.

Nope couldn’t disagree more with you. Revenants need no changes at this time, and developer time should be spent elsewhere on other classes that actually need help.

Nope, 0 arguments given. Typical Azukas. You know what? Nope, coulndt disagree more with you. Revenant do need changes as hes completely different from it original intentions. Energy on weapon skills is one of them. We were supposed to have lower cd’s than other classes due to wep skills costing energy. With recent changes its no longer the case and bc of that energy usage on wep skills should be gone as well. Go troll somewhere else now

Revs are performing within this game VERY well, and making a change would push them further into the OverPowered zone. So I don’t care what we are supposed to have on our revs I only care about balance.

So no argument is needed b/c you don’t argue outlandish delusional claims/requests. You ignore them and set strict boundaries.

tobascodagama.2961:

Azukas, do you just demand nerfs on every build you lose to, or what?

Bound can hit 4-5k on 5 people. It’s a dodge, and it’s actually quite ridiculous. I would rather see their interrupt trait be able to crit instead of their freaking dodge. It’s already a leap finisher…

The acrobat passives are defense passives and I’m against any and all traits like that. 2 seconds of evade when under 50% life and hard to catch which is a free stun break every 30 seconds that also grants 100% extra endurance regen

Staff 3 glitch is where the thief hits 3, hits you, and instead of dodging back he stands right in front of you. So all the soft CC in the world isn’t going to help you vs this.

What part of that post is unclear to you?

Cynz.9437:

dmndbcK.3425:

Tbh bro, maybe you should just learn from Min Scherzo. He’s the only guy I’ve found who play’s thief that actually kills all of the above specs you mentioned with ease.

Your suggested nerfs are nothing more then voices of the hundreds of casuals who cry about things not dieng when they are just stupid at the game. As a thief, you shouldn’t be a) fighting DH’s, Wars, Rangers alone. b) running anything but d/p, staff in ranked and c) complaining about requiring nerfs when you can perma-cleave for days.

You have essentially named all of the current best specs and their traits/skills that make them the best. However, what you haven’t named are good player’s in top-tier that play them and show you that they are OP.

In casual play, sapphire division and below you will see that these builds destroy people who obviously have no idea what the dodge keys or immobilize is. Outside of that, you will rarely find good power warriors/dh’s/engi’s in upper diamond/legendary division. With this being said, no salt required. It’s time to start learning how-to not rely on your backstab so much and start innovating.

tl;dr OP is probably just another guy who is salty about getting slain on his thief consistently because he is not willing to innovate and adjust to change.
just my 2c

Innovate on thief lol

Meanwhile anet keeps nerfing every weapon set almost every single patch

Why don’t other classes get to “innovate”? Why it is always thieves that have to adapt to non-stop nerfs while every other class is literary on auto-pilot?

Why don’t we bring other classes to thief level? Oh wait, suddenly you wouldn’t be able to reach even ruby and talk crap to other posters.

Rarely find good war/dh/engi in upper divisions? I am in diamond right now and there is always multiple wars, engis, druids and dhs in every single match.

I introduce you to the Acro Trick DD staff thief.

That build along with the D/D variant are pretty much an atrocity to what thief should be.

I find that to fight the staff thief you need to REALLY be good at reading the animations. The problems with the build are:

1. Bound.
2. Acrobatics passives.
3. Staff 3 glitch.

Bound shouldn’t crit or count as a leap finisher. The Acrobatics passives need to go away along with the rest of the passives in the game. They also need to fix that staff 3 glitch because it really kittens up someone watching animations.

I’ve been testing some builds out both power/condi to try to best figure out how to deal with this build.

Cynz.9437:

You know what is funny: 2?+ years ago Anet nerfed blackpowder because it was too powerful – yes that tiny circle was too powerful, same with chocking gas. Then i look at all the fields guards can throw on point and ask myself WTH Anet?

LOL

The PoV from thief mains is always refreshing

Burtnik.5218:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

The point of weapon skills costing energy was low cd’s on them (see 2sec CoR vs 4sec True Shot as example). This is no longer the case as over time they raised cd’s and they match other classes right now. At this point they need to get rid of energy consuption from wep skills or revert cd nerfs. Right now its double punishment.

Nope couldn’t disagree more with you. Revenants need no changes at this time, and developer time should be spent elsewhere on other classes that actually need help.

Problem remains Revenant is in no need of a buff at this time. Discussing shorter CDs and/or energy costs is pointless unless some hyper power creep for the rest of the game is taking place.

At this time Revenants NEED nothing.

Because if we removed the CD on weapon skills revs would be the most broken OP class in the game.

Imagine Phase Traversal into Precision Strike-Precision Strike-Precision Strike, or just use Precision Strike x 10…..

I enjoy the match where i solo q and find myself on a team with 3 thieves. One of them switch and the other 2 refuse. I switch from mesmer to support

Meanwhile they got 2 DH on the other team.

Why even play?

No I read it and do respect that fellas opinion. I’m from NA and I root for em in leagues, but I have to admit that right now EU >>> NA. EU firmly supports mesmers at this time so that’s that.

Now his statements on a few things do not sit well at all. 1st thieves can’t carry better than a we can in solo q. I’ve played against and with MANY thieves this season and they are far from a carry. Even those special players on thief are at a huge disadvantage.

Other than that we’ll see how it pans out.

Levetty.1279:

So apprently in the GW2esports tier lists Mesmer is A tier (S is top) for competitive, pretty much due to portal, and only b tier for solo que.

I fully expect him to ignore this and to keep claiming Mesmer is God mode in all modes of the game.

Link plz cause i hope you aren’t using this http://academygamingnet.com/4011-2/

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

I just picked up on condi chrono a few days ago and can drop almost anyone I a 1v1 (aside from druid…its a long drawn out fight). The build I made is easy to play (Dire stats ftw) and doesn’t take long to grasp most concepts (still not used to shattering and not used to the new shatter that reverts HP/position/CD’s…etc).

Once I learn to remember, I think that the build will drop even druids.

Low risk/high reward indeed. Think I found my new WvW main (had a daredevil and druid before).

fyi…I don’t use shield or pistol

I recently dropped staff (only really used phase retreat) and picked up shield so now i’m scepter torch/shield. Druid are a little less drawn out (1 was due to their ability to stealth every 3 sec and cleanse condis) but now I am having constant issues fighting daredevils (was 50/50 with staff). Any tips? (Using sig heal / arcane thievery / blink / decoy and Mass Invis

You have to get them to blow shadow step then pile on the condi.

With torch you can easily out stealth them. Just properly read the dodge frames and hit them.

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

basically this thread going to be close if you continue to write off topic

i want some proff why mesmer are still op and even greater then op after the last patch

i hardly see mesmer in any team beside me (and i play support)

and when i see one its so easy to counter it by sending DH or warrior

so pls focus…..

ty

What proof did you choose to ignore?

Meta in PvE
Meta in WvW
Meta in PvP

I’m confused as to how you are having a problem. Do I think the effectiveness of Mesmer is what it has been the past few seasons in PvP? Still up in the air due to the meta still settling, but I do believe they are top 3 in terms of class strength.

op and not meta

pvp in esl is just cause you cant stack classes so just portal and moa is the basic why mesmer are chosen and not because they got buffed

i think the DH entrance basically counter the condi mesmer and the warrior also in some way

i dont know much about pve and in wvw they used as viel and boon share mainly (i think and not condi or power dmg)

in pvp imo i think mesmer push back the the middle without class stacking

Yet at the qualifiers in EU we saw 1 DH to 4 Mesmers. At this point in time it is as I say. Now could we see some shake up in the future? Yes maybe.

As for arguing about only being taken for portal etc, I’m not doing that. We won’t agree on anything for pages of me saying, “Great 1v1 build, mobility, etc” to your “it’s only because of portal moa”

We’ll just settle on mesmers are top 3 classes being picked for pvp at this time mmkay

check US comp

3 dh and 1 chrono. which prove what? shake up is here
dh great in 1v1 great aoe pressure on point low mobility though great sustain than mesmer…
i rarely try to argue but man common…. condi mesmer isnt op any more when the warrior and DH enter the meta and the last patch didnt give anything beside lower 50% dmg reduction to 33% which is more power base and not condi base…

I’m sorry but EU >>>>>>>>> NA in PvP

I said we could see some things shake up but at this point in time it is as I say.

so now your comparison is 3 group who determine the meta and not only the esl team
next you will say helseth determinate the meta for mesmer …

you can check as long as you like
DH > condi mesmer
warrior> condi mesmer
ranger>condi mesmer unless moa at the right time
ele>condi mesmer unless moa at the right time

the entrance of warrior and now DH pushed mesmer further away

NA hasn’t won anything major since WTS last year. At this point in time they’ve been determining the meta.

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

basically this thread going to be close if you continue to write off topic

i want some proff why mesmer are still op and even greater then op after the last patch

i hardly see mesmer in any team beside me (and i play support)

and when i see one its so easy to counter it by sending DH or warrior

so pls focus…..

ty

What proof did you choose to ignore?

Meta in PvE
Meta in WvW
Meta in PvP

I’m confused as to how you are having a problem. Do I think the effectiveness of Mesmer is what it has been the past few seasons in PvP? Still up in the air due to the meta still settling, but I do believe they are top 3 in terms of class strength.

op and not meta

pvp in esl is just cause you cant stack classes so just portal and moa is the basic why mesmer are chosen and not because they got buffed

i think the DH entrance basically counter the condi mesmer and the warrior also in some way

i dont know much about pve and in wvw they used as viel and boon share mainly (i think and not condi or power dmg)

in pvp imo i think mesmer push back the the middle without class stacking

Yet at the qualifiers in EU we saw 1 DH to 4 Mesmers. At this point in time it is as I say. Now could we see some shake up in the future? Yes maybe.

As for arguing about only being taken for portal etc, I’m not doing that. We won’t agree on anything for pages of me saying, “Great 1v1 build, mobility, etc” to your “it’s only because of portal moa”

We’ll just settle on mesmers are top 3 classes being picked for pvp at this time mmkay

check US comp

3 dh and 1 chrono. which prove what? shake up is here
dh great in 1v1 great aoe pressure on point low mobility though great sustain than mesmer…
i rarely try to argue but man common…. condi mesmer isnt op any more when the warrior and DH enter the meta and the last patch didnt give anything beside lower 50% dmg reduction to 33% which is more power base and not condi base…

I’m sorry but EU >>>>>>>>> NA in PvP

I said we could see some things shake up but at this point in time it is as I say.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

I’m honestly wondering if you even know what the glamour build was and if you did why, out of all the different mesmer builds across the different modes over the years that people have whined about it, was it this build that is casuing so much anguish, hatred of Mesmers and night terrors?

I abused it and posted the video that resulted in its nerfing in a thread a Lil while back. There were people saying the nerfing of said build was unjustified and wrong. These same people are very present in this thread….

You lost the argument, so now you’re changing the topic to something that happened in the first year of the game. And using it as a general ad hominem attack against “those people posting in this very thread”

Well played XD

ad hominem

adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents’ motives.

I also love how you retell history with you at the epicenter XD lol

Well done on washing away all the nuance of mesmer, the meta, and those times all that time ago.

I didn’t make the video just posted the,one that got it nerfed because it showcased how broken it was. Did it in a thread awhile back where Fay and the gang were saying it didn’t need nerfing.

I think your having some issues and you’re welcome to PM if ya want

“you’re” as in “you are”, not “your”. No, I’m good. I mean, sure, the things you come out with illicit all kinds of response, but I wouldn’t call them problematic. Laughter is universally a good thing isn’kitten Very humorous either way. Like, I know you’re (<- prime example – you are) dead serious, but sometimes I have to ask myself if you’re not an supremely good troll.

Nicht , dass Grammatik ist falsch!

Godkitten it! I knew there’d be something in there ;D

I have cell phone auto correct working for me….what’s your excuse?

p.s. I’m far from an english grammar expert, but I believe you’ve misused some commas in there as well.

I’m an awful speller and even worse with grammar. Duh.

See, I’m honest.

So you’re basically admitting to correcting people on stuff you don’t really know about.

Good to know

Well played. But no. You were still very much misusing ‘your’ in place of ’you’re’. Much like all the rest of your posts in this thread ;D

Facts are still facts. Reality is still reality.

You missed that phone auto correct….

Oh, sorry. I didn’t realize it was your phone auto correct that had claimed s3 meta condi chrono was indirectly buffed by the latest balance patch and not you. My bad.

Fixed that for you mate. I’m here in your times of need

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

I’m honestly wondering if you even know what the glamour build was and if you did why, out of all the different mesmer builds across the different modes over the years that people have whined about it, was it this build that is casuing so much anguish, hatred of Mesmers and night terrors?

I abused it and posted the video that resulted in its nerfing in a thread a Lil while back. There were people saying the nerfing of said build was unjustified and wrong. These same people are very present in this thread….

You lost the argument, so now you’re changing the topic to something that happened in the first year of the game. And using it as a general ad hominem attack against “those people posting in this very thread”

Well played XD

ad hominem

adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents’ motives.

I also love how you retell history with you at the epicenter XD lol

Well done on washing away all the nuance of mesmer, the meta, and those times all that time ago.

I didn’t make the video just posted the,one that got it nerfed because it showcased how broken it was. Did it in a thread awhile back where Fay and the gang were saying it didn’t need nerfing.

I think your having some issues and you’re welcome to PM if ya want

“you’re” as in “you are”, not “your”. No, I’m good. I mean, sure, the things you come out with illicit all kinds of response, but I wouldn’t call them problematic. Laughter is universally a good thing isn’kitten Very humorous either way. Like, I know you’re (<- prime example – you are) dead serious, but sometimes I have to ask myself if you’re not an supremely good troll.

Nicht , dass Grammatik ist falsch!

Godkitten it! I knew there’d be something in there ;D

I have cell phone auto correct working for me….what’s your excuse?

p.s. I’m far from an english grammar expert, but I believe you’ve misused some commas in there as well.

I’m an awful speller and even worse with grammar. Duh.

See, I’m honest.

So you’re basically admitting to correcting people on stuff you don’t really know about.

Good to know

Well played. But no. You were still very much misusing ‘your’ in place of ’you’re’. Much like all the rest of your posts in this thread ;D

Facts are still facts. Reality is still reality.

You missed that phone auto correct….

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

basically this thread going to be close if you continue to write off topic

i want some proff why mesmer are still op and even greater then op after the last patch

i hardly see mesmer in any team beside me (and i play support)

and when i see one its so easy to counter it by sending DH or warrior

so pls focus…..

ty

What proof did you choose to ignore?

Meta in PvE
Meta in WvW
Meta in PvP

I’m confused as to how you are having a problem. Do I think the effectiveness of Mesmer is what it has been the past few seasons in PvP? Still up in the air due to the meta still settling, but I do believe they are top 3 in terms of class strength.

op and not meta

pvp in esl is just cause you cant stack classes so just portal and moa is the basic why mesmer are chosen and not because they got buffed

i think the DH entrance basically counter the condi mesmer and the warrior also in some way

i dont know much about pve and in wvw they used as viel and boon share mainly (i think and not condi or power dmg)

in pvp imo i think mesmer push back the the middle without class stacking

Yet at the qualifiers in EU we saw 1 DH to 4 Mesmers. At this point in time it is as I say. Now could we see some shake up in the future? Yes maybe.

As for arguing about only being taken for portal etc, I’m not doing that. We won’t agree on anything for pages of me saying, “Great 1v1 build, mobility, etc” to your “it’s only because of portal moa”

We’ll just settle on mesmers are top 3 classes being picked for pvp at this time mmkay

Straegen.2938:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves haven’t countered mesmers since 2013

It could be worse. At release the Phantasms were so powerful all a Mesmer had to do was drop the Pistol one, stealth and watch everything melt.

Yes if a phantasm build ever becomes viable it will always be that way. For some reason Anet has a track record of making AI builds super powerful. The worst was the PU phantasm condi on clone death builds…..

messiah.1908:

basically this thread going to be close if you continue to write off topic

i want some proff why mesmer are still op and even greater then op after the last patch

i hardly see mesmer in any team beside me (and i play support)

and when i see one its so easy to counter it by sending DH or warrior

so pls focus…..

ty

What proof did you choose to ignore?

Meta in PvE
Meta in WvW
Meta in PvP

I’m confused as to how you are having a problem. Do I think the effectiveness of Mesmer is what it has been the past few seasons in PvP? Still up in the air due to the meta still settling, but I do believe they are top 3 in terms of class strength.

I’m by no means a great necro. I’ve picked up as an alt to switch too when our team has too many of one class.

I will say I’ve used the signet build on meta this,season and my experience has been ok. I find that I have to play safe and at range in games. I agree you do need stronger teammates as well but I pre kite + use worm. I find I’m able to survive pretty well tbh.

Now I don’t think necro is as strong as it used to be in previous seasons but in normal,ranked play it definitely has a,spot

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

I’m honestly wondering if you even know what the glamour build was and if you did why, out of all the different mesmer builds across the different modes over the years that people have whined about it, was it this build that is casuing so much anguish, hatred of Mesmers and night terrors?

I abused it and posted the video that resulted in its nerfing in a thread a Lil while back. There were people saying the nerfing of said build was unjustified and wrong. These same people are very present in this thread….

You lost the argument, so now you’re changing the topic to something that happened in the first year of the game. And using it as a general ad hominem attack against “those people posting in this very thread”

Well played XD

ad hominem

adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents’ motives.

I also love how you retell history with you at the epicenter XD lol

Well done on washing away all the nuance of mesmer, the meta, and those times all that time ago.

I didn’t make the video just posted the,one that got it nerfed because it showcased how broken it was. Did it in a thread awhile back where Fay and the gang were saying it didn’t need nerfing.

I think your having some issues and you’re welcome to PM if ya want

“you’re” as in “you are”, not “your”. No, I’m good. I mean, sure, the things you come out with illicit all kinds of response, but I wouldn’t call them problematic. Laughter is universally a good thing isn’kitten Very humorous either way. Like, I know you’re (<- prime example – you are) dead serious, but sometimes I have to ask myself if you’re not an supremely good troll.

Nicht , dass Grammatik ist falsch!

Godkitten it! I knew there’d be something in there ;D

I have cell phone auto correct working for me….what’s your excuse?

p.s. I’m far from an english grammar expert, but I believe you’ve misused some commas in there as well.

I’m an awful speller and even worse with grammar. Duh.

See, I’m honest.

So you’re basically admitting to correcting people on stuff you don’t really know about.

Good to know

Kageseigi.2150:

Impact.2780:

It’s an easy fix too. Instead of just trying to port to the trap/player location in one shadow step, if that fails try to do it in a smaller step, and if that fails try to take a step toward it the using NPC pathing algorithm, subtract the distance traveled by the successful method, and then repeat for the remaining range.

It used to at least consistently port my Thief into walls closer to the intended destination… be it a 5 foot port or a halfway across the map. But recently, it hasn’t even moved my Thief at all if it fails… but the trap goes on full cooldown as though it actually did something.

So sad :-(

That means it’s coded as a shadow step and not an actual teleport.

That’s the problem

kitten.5862:

sinject.4607:

kitten.5862:

Highest skill cap coming from ESL player:

Guard
Rev
Mes
Thief
Necro
Eng
Warr
Druid
Ele

Yeah I put guard on top sorry bads. Because I probably am the best at it but I still think I’m playing at like 90% effectiveness. Maybe there just are no players above 90% on any class but I know there’s still more potential in guard (and I know I have to put way more effort into my game play than anyone except some revs)

cant tell if this post is either sarcastic or delusional

must be delusional but I’d like to see your list as a tier 15 player

So what makes a guardian so hard to play in your opinion?

kitten.5862:

Highest skill cap coming from ESL player:

Guard
Rev
Mes
Thief
Necro
Eng
Warr
Druid
Ele

Yeah I put guard on top sorry bads. Because I probably am the best at it but I still think I’m playing at like 90% effectiveness. Maybe there just are no players above 90% on any class but I know there’s still more potential in guard (and I know I have to put way more effort into my game play than anyone except some revs)

Nice bait 7/10.

I tend to agree with your rankings for the most part, but Necros is VERY high on your list. I don’t view necro as a hard class to get into especially with MM/Condi aspect of them, but I can see how the cap is higher do to managing the mobility/active defenses of the class.

With HoT I firmly believe that only Rev/Thief are truly high skill classes. Now power mesmer is but it’s not meta thus can’t be counted.

Deihnyx.6318:

Azukas.1426:

Deihnyx.6318:

Azukas.1426:

yes I try to talk strat before every game depending on our comp

I switch classes and ask ppl to switch as well. I try to discuss opening split. I talk about a plan if we get rekt and how to counter what they are doing.

I’ve had multiple “PUGS” discuss strats and come up with a game plan. It’s ranked and expected.

Teams that actually discuss strategy : one out of 6, maybe 5 > almost always win
Teams that don’t discuss strat but just say home 5 out of 6 > 50/50 win
Teams that have a whiner: almost always lose.

Now obviously I don’t have the exact numbers at the top of my head but that’s what Ive experienced, and I went as far as Diamond. I’m certain that people in legendary are better at communicating, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Just like I don’t like people trash talking other players in low level fractals, I don’t like people trash talking in low level pvp divisions, this is the same problem, people need to learn.
And leading a group almost always pays off.

Also @Alin: Would you say that trash talking is okay for any competitive sport irl? How does that make it more of a “right” because it’s online?

You have no numbers or facts to back up your statements. You literally just made that kitten up.

I also got the ascension out of nowhere then? While it’s not a proof of being a good player, it’s definitely a proof that I had to spend quite a few weeks doing pvp. But you know what, whatever.
It’s personal experience, it’s not meant to be backed with numbers, even if I’d come with the exact statistics and ratio of win/lose related to toxic players of my next 20 matches you could deny them, so there’s really no point.

And it doesn’t matter at all, if you choose not to believe that, there’s no ground for discussion.

I got my wings too so what? I’m guessing youre alluding to how being positive wins huh?

Well I got em while,ripping ppl new kittens

Deihnyx.6318:

Azukas.1426:

yes I try to talk strat before every game depending on our comp

I switch classes and ask ppl to switch as well. I try to discuss opening split. I talk about a plan if we get rekt and how to counter what they are doing.

I’ve had multiple “PUGS” discuss strats and come up with a game plan. It’s ranked and expected.

Teams that actually discuss strategy : one out of 6, maybe 5 > almost always win
Teams that don’t discuss strat but just say home 5 out of 6 > 50/50 win
Teams that have a whiner: almost always lose.

Now obviously I don’t have the exact numbers at the top of my head but that’s what Ive experienced, and I went as far as Diamond. I’m certain that people in legendary are better at communicating, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Just like I don’t like people trash talking other players in low level fractals, I don’t like people trash talking in low level pvp divisions, this is the same problem, people need to learn.
And leading a group almost always pays off.

Also @Alin: Would you say that trash talking is okay for any competitive sport irl? How does that make it more of a “right” because it’s online?

You have no numbers or facts to back up your statements. You literally just made that kitten up.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

I’m honestly wondering if you even know what the glamour build was and if you did why, out of all the different mesmer builds across the different modes over the years that people have whined about it, was it this build that is casuing so much anguish, hatred of Mesmers and night terrors?

I abused it and posted the video that resulted in its nerfing in a thread a Lil while back. There were people saying the nerfing of said build was unjustified and wrong. These same people are very present in this thread….

You lost the argument, so now you’re changing the topic to something that happened in the first year of the game. And using it as a general ad hominem attack against “those people posting in this very thread”

Well played XD

ad hominem

adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents’ motives.

I also love how you retell history with you at the epicenter XD lol

Well done on washing away all the nuance of mesmer, the meta, and those times all that time ago.

I didn’t make the video just posted the,one that got it nerfed because it showcased how broken it was. Did it in a thread awhile back where Fay and the gang were saying it didn’t need nerfing.

I think your having some issues and you’re welcome to PM if ya want

Levetty.1279:

I’m honestly wondering if you even know what the glamour build was and if you did why, out of all the different mesmer builds across the different modes over the years that people have whined about it, was it this build that is casuing so much anguish, hatred of Mesmers and night terrors?

I abused it and posted the video that resulted in its nerfing in a thread a Lil while back. There were people saying the nerfing of said build was unjustified and wrong. These same people are very present in this thread….

Deihnyx.6318:

Azukas.1426:

Deihnyx.6318:

Ruru.1302:

Bad players hurt the game FAR more than toxic players. It’s the sad reality. Although, they aren’t mutually exclusive.

The problem is not whether there are good and bad players. There’s always been good and bad, in every competitive game, be it video game or irl.
But playing in PVP in videogames didn’t feel like playing with children before and it was still fun to play (thanks LoL, thanks rewards!).

- Yelling and insulting never helps winning a game, this is useless no matter what.

- Yes, there are some behaviors that shouldn’t happen in higher divisions, but this is rarely where the worst toxicity happens. When you’re in low division, by definition you will find players that are good and bad, deal with it, if you’re really that good, teach your team what to do and tell them where to go.

- Everyone has to start as a rookie, everyone has to learn. And most importantly: Everyone has the right to play. As stated before, this toxic behavior doesn’t only happen in ranked. “Go back to pve” is pure elitism and just a terrible way to welcome a new player. Rookies can’t leave unranked with the full experience needed for ranked, they need more practice.

- A large portion of the whiners complain whenever they start losing, and not because someone in particular is bad. It’s just how things are, there’s gotta be a loser. But when you lose a fight by a few points, you could just admit this was a good fight and congrats the other team. Fair-play can be nice too.

Insulting is a cheesy way to hide your own lack of leadership (and skill, sometimes). Again, a good player is able to give instructions from the start so that the “not so good players” know where they’re expected. This is infinitely better than flat out insulting them because you think you’re a pvp god.

If you come to an agreement on a game plan and certain players do the opposite……There’s no coaching that stupidity.

Besides I didn’t buy Guild Wars Virtual Coach Edition. I bought regular old GW2.

Oh come on, how often do pug groups actually talk about what to do beforehand, besides who go home?
You guys take the worst examples while ignoring the fact that they are not the most common, lots of trash talking is actually thrown as soon as a team is losing, just because some people are pro at blaming everyone.

It always surprises me how people think trash talking is okay because someone is supposely bad. It’s not, Internet makes it easier but it certainly doesn’t make it more right.

You also don’t need to be a coach to give advices to help your team win, that just makes you a more adult player and proves with actual facts that you’re good. And if anything, it’s less work than just spamming insults.
Thanks at least some players are actually good at that.

yes I try to talk strat before every game depending on our comp

I switch classes and ask ppl to switch as well. I try to discuss opening split. I talk about a plan if we get rekt and how to counter what they are doing.

I’ve had multiple “PUGS” discuss strats and come up with a game plan. It’s ranked and expected.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Azukas.1426:

Did any of you guys,think that maybe anet doesn’t want you abusing stealth anymore…

Did you read the whole thread before asking this question? Because if you did, you wouldn’t be asking this silly question.

D/D evade frame may be nice, but the pre-cast and after-cast delays are not. Due to this, any player cannot skillfully evade anything unless the player has psychic power who can predict what will happen 2s ahead of time. Any player reacting to something will miss the evade opportunity due to these delays.

The only reliable evade is Pistol Whip because even if you fail to evade, your target will be interrupted and forced to dodge. If it only didn’t cost more than 50% of our resources to use.

So why is D/D condi thief a thing and regarded as extreme cheese/powerful?

Maybe you need to reevaluate your build and come up with a new game plan.

Personally if I was going to run a D/D thief it would be marauder/zerker with Acro, Trickery, and Daredevil. Extreme evade uptime for days with all that D/D damage.

Did any of you guys,think that maybe anet doesn’t want you abusing stealth anymore, and that maybe you should look into an evade power D/D set?

I dunno maybe I’m just at an advantage of being a 3rd party but it seems like D/D has decent evade frame up time while pumping out serious damage

Deihnyx.6318:

Ruru.1302:

Bad players hurt the game FAR more than toxic players. It’s the sad reality. Although, they aren’t mutually exclusive.

The problem is not whether there are good and bad players. There’s always been good and bad, in every competitive game, be it video game or irl.
But playing in PVP in videogames didn’t feel like playing with children before and it was still fun to play (thanks LoL, thanks rewards!).

- Yelling and insulting never helps winning a game, this is useless no matter what.

- Yes, there are some behaviors that shouldn’t happen in higher divisions, but this is rarely where the worst toxicity happens. When you’re in low division, by definition you will find players that are good and bad, deal with it, if you’re really that good, teach your team what to do and tell them where to go.

- Everyone has to start as a rookie, everyone has to learn. And most importantly: Everyone has the right to play. As stated before, this toxic behavior doesn’t only happen in ranked. “Go back to pve” is pure elitism and just a terrible way to welcome a new player. Rookies can’t leave unranked with the full experience needed for ranked, they need more practice.

- A large portion of the whiners complain whenever they start losing, and not because someone in particular is bad. It’s just how things are, there’s gotta be a loser. But when you lose a fight by a few points, you could just admit this was a good fight and congrats the other team. Fair-play can be nice too.

Insulting is a cheesy way to hide your own lack of leadership (and skill, sometimes). Again, a good player is able to give instructions from the start so that the “not so good players” know where they’re expected. This is infinitely better than flat out insulting them because you think you’re a pvp god.

If you come to an agreement on a game plan and certain players do the opposite……There’s no coaching that stupidity.

Besides I didn’t buy Guild Wars Virtual Coach Edition. I bought regular old GW2.

Curunen.8729:

Meh, even since HoT I’ve always preferred torch for both power and condi despite being inferior to Shield so the extra burn is welcome.

However you’ve still got to land prestige and the iMage is still as pathetic as ever. . . so it’s a very minor buff.

And the other indirect “buff” being nerfs to other classes? Well HoT elite specs are all still overpowered, meta condi mesmer can’t reliably boon strip (Disenchantet is easily cleaved and absolutely cannot compare with Shattered Concentration which is one of the best boon removal traits), can still be countered by other classes, still has to use glassy amulets (Viper, Carrion because both rabid and wanderer suck in terms of damage output…) and then is arguably more glass than power builds using Demolisher. I play condi mes with viper and can easily lose a huge fraction of health from say a single DH longbow auto attack… ie all defence is active defence just like power shatter.

So I hardly think there’s much buff there at all.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Team-comp-at-the-WTS-Qualifier/first#post6281587

We’re sitting pretty atm