Guild Wars 2

Joey.3928:

Using the offensive build, think it would be beneficial to take 5 points from radiance and put them in honor? for the vigor?

Depends, If you want more dodging that sure go for it. I prefer vuln on blind due to virtue of justice causing it aoe, and the fact that leap of faith is currently bugged (or working correctly who knows…) and causes 3 stacks of vulnerability for every person you blind with it. so say you hit 5 people, you cause 15 stacks of vuln instead of the normal 3. It is great to combo it with the binding blade pull to make what i call a “vulnerability bomb”.

tchalla.8742:

I really like it. Can you briefly describe the GS/Hammer small group skirmish play style, priorities, etc.? Many many thanks. I’m playing the game again thanks to this thread :-)

Really its about trying to lock down people and burn them before they can get away. This build is very capable of charging right in and taking hits, which opens up any of the squishier people with you to go all out. The big thing with this build though is that it is not very good at chasing people down, so keeping people close is priority, if you feel like you have the upper hand make sure you use your signet as well, as the weakness debuff will reduce damage caused by anyone effected, and also cut endurance regen down, making it easier to not be dodged from dodge rolls.

Some main combos would include judges intervention + Ring of Warding to lock people in without warning. (JI can be used during any skill and will not interrupt it.) Also binding blades pull, then leap of faith will cause the “vulnerability bomb” that I mentioned earlier. Binding blade + weapon switch + ring of warding will cause anyone you dragged into you to be trapped as well. its mostly about keeping people grouped up for your group to burn down fast, while still doing a pretty good amount of damage yourself.

Im sitting here really confused on how your crit damage is as high as it is. 30 from valor, 12 from runes, 18 from jewels only comes to 60% even with food and weapons you would still only be at 79% am i missing something?

So I have played around with the build some more, And decided to run two different builds for it. Keep in mind you CAN solo roam with either retribution build, however I don’t feel this is the best one to do so with, and the 10/30/30/0/0 high crit w/ lifesteal food is the best for that.

As it stands, The original build of :
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3|1.1p.h19|2.1p.h17|1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r|1p.61.1n.67.1n.67.1i.67.1g.67.8b.61|u27c.a6.u16c.0.0|15.1|e (Retribution: Offensive)

With shelter, signet of judgement, smite condition, and judges intervention as my utilities.
It is very good for small and large group combat, but mostly shines in smaller groups, you get decent heals from GS+monks focus, great defense from tougness and lowered condition duration, and pretty good offense all on one build

As for large zerg vs zerg fights My current build is:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3|1.1p.h19|2.1p.h17|1n.7r.1c.7r.1n.7r.1c.7r.1n.7r.1c.7r|1i.61.1n.67.1n.67.1i.67.1g.67.8b.61|0.p64.u12b.0.f2|15.1|e (Retribution: defensive)

Utilities are Shelter, signet of judgement, Stand your ground, and Judges intervention
This build has extremely High survivability with 3171 armor, signet of judgement, and AH healing through virtues, signet use, shout use, and blast finishers. Also the added regen and protection from virtue use on top of the already high uptime of protection from hammer use.

The upfront damage on this build is lower, however you should have almost 100% retal uptime, through virtue use, Stand your ground, signet use, and also blast and leap finishers out of your combo fields. Also picking up the the traits for defenders flame, which gives you an extra tick of burning damage with each block, and also inner fire, which gives you 3 seconds of fury for each application of burning on you, helps even out the damage loss.

The only downside to this version is a lower health pool, but I have yet to notice it being an issue with the 85% damage reduction I have with protection on, and AH in a zerg is more than enough to out do any damage that conditions will do to me before they drop off with the lowered duration they have on me.

Overall as I said the offensive build is, in my opinion best if you are running with smaller groups of 5-10, while the defensive build is best for zerg vs zerg, and is an extremely good spec for breaking enemy lines.

Yeah, the build calc did take into effect both radiant power and Fiery wrath. And though the damage is very nice, I do take a hit in survivability through it. I am thinking though for roaming, that the 10/30/30/0/0 build with 1h sword/focus and GS is best, while for group fights the 30/10/30/0/0 build with GS/hammer is best. My main issue I found with the GS/Hammer build while roaming was being able to burst people fast enough, where that certainly isn’t an issue for the 10/30/30 build, where as for group fights the 30/10/30 has more staying power and plenty more AoE. It also helps to have multiple ways to lock people down for your group.

Edit:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3|c.1g.h1.d.1g.h19|c.1g.h1.d.1g.0|1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r|1p.61.1n.67.1n.67.1i.67.1g.67.8b.61|a2.u6ab.u16c.0.0|15.1|e
This is what I am looking at as far as 1hs spec goes and the stats it produces.

Compared to:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3|1.1p.h19|2.1p.h17|1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r|1p.61.1n.67.1n.67.1i.67.1g.67.8b.61|u27c.a6.u16c.0.0|15.1|e

So, I have been trying to test the new gear set up and whatnot for solo roaming, however Being in T2 sucks for this since everything is find is groups of 15+ people… once I get more testing in I will let you know how well it works.

Also, ran into a rather interesting issue, playing around with the traits on the stat calculator, I can actually get a good amount more damage by running into the radiance line instead of zeal, mostly because of radiant power. So the question is, Should I go back to trying this as a 1h build, or stop at 25 and keep it two hand -.-

Edit: So I am going to try it out at the standard 10/30/30/0/0 RHS build as the damage on 1hs is FAR stronger than anything I can pull from other specs (4717 effective power based on the calc) need to grab some skale venom and try it out..

akamon.2769:

woot! grats, Bash. and nice stats! ; ))) glad i was able to help a bit in the little ways that i could. the beryl amulet does work in favor for your build setup.

which skins are you planning to go for?D i love weapon skinssss lol.

let’s see some videos now!

Need to get some decent video capture software before those start happening. I know Christos got some footage of us fighting at the chest of the EB jump puzzle… well until I made an amazing dodge roll off the edge to my death. (Might be a bit too used to open field fighting >.>) As far as weapon skins go I am thinking Vigil for the hammer, not too sure on GS though. Thinking Either Molten, Ebon Vanguard, Or maybe the Pact one.

It is completed!!!! At the moment I am sticking with Beryl amulet as it seems to actually gives me more damage, and more effective health (based on the calculator) and the tougness from cavalier doesnt give me enough crit to give me an extra % point.

Special Thanks once again to Amins for the original Trait build, and Akamon for helping me get the valk off pieces. Now I just need to get some nicer Sword/Hammer skins >.>

Shelter is amazing with the might on block 25 point valor trait in WvW. Charge into a zerg, when you start taking hits just pop it and bam, instant 25 stacks of 15 second long might. Only issue after that is actually getting to someone to kill with them :P

So after playing this build more I honestly thing it might be the best one I have played yet. I switched out my Amulet and karka shell for Cavalier exotics, and will be switching my gloves/boots/shoulders over to valk pieces to pick up some extra crit damage. I will end up losing 72 toughness to pick up 6% crit damage, but as it stands I will still be sitting at 3k+ armor, 30% crit, around 3300 attack, and 74% crit damage.

Here is a picture of my current stats, pre valk pieces.

Edit:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3|1.1p.h19|2.1p.h17|1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r.1n.7r.1p.7r|1i.61.1n.67.1n.67.1i.67.1g.67.8b.67|u27c.a6.u16c.0.0|15.1|e

Should be my final Build once i get the valk pieces, also, yay for them adding in consumables into the build calculator.

akamon.2769:

glad to hear, Bash. any chance to get to see this build in action? ; )) agree on the hammer. the builds i come up with almost always has to have a spot for the hammer.

hmm, agree regarding crit chance % vs power and crit dmg. i guess it depends on what effects your build can get from critting more frequently as well. but for dmg purposes, power and crit dmg is the way to go.

using the gear choices Blasino provided as a base, the following should be able to up your crit dmg a bit.

Helm – Knight
Shoulders – Valkyrie
Chest – Knight
Gloves – Valkyrie
Pants – Knight
Boots – Valkyrie

Back – Rare Soldier + Beryl jewel
Amulet – Beryl + Beryl jewel
Earrings – Ruby + Ruby jewels
Rings – Emerald + Beryl jewels

Weapons – Valkyrie

Retributive Armor, Sharpening Stones, and same food / runes.

if my math is correct, you should have:

2,277 Power / 3,300+ Attack (assuming you’re using GS and Hammer)
~30% Crit chance
~74% Crit dmg
2,955 Armor
14,905 HP

let me know and i can help you craft some valk armor ; )) put my smith to good use lol

Another thing is that there are the Cavalier pieces now too for trinkets at the Orr karma vendors. Power/toughness/crit damage, which is exactly what I need. Will most likely switch out my back and maybe my amulet to that. I will obviously lose some health, but I really dont want to go under 3k armor and I will if I switch out my low stat armor pieces without changing something.

So I have to say that the 30/10/30/0/0 build really seems to be the best so far for the gear set up. I tried running a standard RHS build with it but the lack of omnom healing just makes it less appealing. Also the hammer doesn’t work with it as well and I have been loving the CC on the hammer a bit too much to give it up. I am also working on switching out the lower stat soldier pieces for valk to see how that does, just waiting for people to sell them to me on the TP.

@akamon: 30% crit is fine for Non RHS builds. It is pretty much where I am at with mine, but just slightly under the crit damage mark. I wouldn’t really say it is a sweet spot though as it is more or less personal preference. but one I do agree with. You really just need a good balance of each, where having higher power increases your constant damage, and crit damage increases your spike damage. Crit is a kind of in between stat where it does both, because you crit more constantly, which does more damage, but doesn’t effect each as much as power or crit damage do.

Amins.3710:

If you want more damage, it’s not your Attk or Crit… it’s your Crit Dmg %

Aim for 3200 Attack and 75% Crit Dmg.

You will see the numbers you’re most likely wanting come to the forefront. I’ve found this to be the ‘sweet spot’ for me.

Ofcourse, this is Base + food w/o Sigil of Blood / Might Stacking.

Suggestion: Get rid of the Emerald Ring and put in a Beryl/Beryl one.

The damage is honestly rather good at the moment. but I do agree I could use more crit damage. However I would most likely switch my Soldier armor over to Valk, as it is only a 1:12 ratio loss compared to a 1:16 ratio Loss on the Rings. I also Already run crit damage in all of my trinket jewel slots since it has the best ratio at 1:5

Also, with the 30/10/30 build I also run at 3326 attack with food. so reaching that point is not an issue at all.

It essentially makes Conditions an almost non-issue. Unless you are fighting someone who has pumped up condition damage AND duration, they fall of almost harmlessly, which is great since most of my builds run low health, and condition builds ruin them. It also cuts back on my need for condition removal freeing me up for some different utilities/sigils.

Completely disagree. Sword/torch is great for 1v1 fights and possibly our highest single target damage set. Yes you do need RHS to make it work at its best but the damage is very nice without even needing zerker gear. #4 is a 1200 ranger nuke and #5 is great for flushing thieves out of shadow refuge. I will say though that focus might work better for you if you want a good mix of damage and defense. But straight damage wise sword/torch is highest single target damage when used correctly.

Also keep in mind that for 1h sword builds the best synergy for the build is off set GS. Hammer is nice but the overall mobility on the GS matches with 1h sword play much better.

Amins.3710:

How you beat a Retal Guard is w/ your Hammer.

Don’t even get out the Sword unless you need the pull or it’s a 2v1 and you need some condition removal.

Big single hits kill retal.

Hammer #1 (#1 & 2: skip the symbol unless you absolutely need the buff, you don’t want multiple hits cuz it’ll end up being 1.25k+ dmg to you ~OR~ when doing the third, rotate just a bit as to have it hit ~beside~ the player and out of the symbol range, still give you the buff but not triggering retal).

Yeah, The only issue with that Is that I lack the damage to pull that off between all the healing they have. I sadly don’t have your damage stats so I am stuck in a bad place against them. Also I should note this build is still a work in progress, as I am testing out multiple trait combinations, I seem to be at a wierd point that no matter if I put 30 in zeal, or 30 in radiance my damage doesn’t seem to go up or down too much. Most likely because of the added radiant power trait. However since I am no longer tied to omnomberry pies for healing, I might be able to run Hammer with a 1h sword variant rather well. But as I said, much testing and finalizing to do, but for now the 30/10/30/0/0 variant seems to be the best match at the moment.

Joey.3928:

This is an interesting build. All the builds I have been trying to come up with focused around boon duration and at least some healing power. This build has none. What are the weaknesses for this build? What are the hardest enemies you come across?

I generally play WvW solo or with 2-5 other people. I usually fight against 1-8 people. I never fight in zergs. I wonder if this is the kind of build I want.

I tend to run dps orriented, almost boonless builds myself, it might be a bit harder for you to pick up as it doesnt have the full surviabilty of a bunker, but generally has more than most damage orriented builds. As far as a weakness the only one is the same one I always have issues with, the healway build. And this is onlu because of how retaliation works. Since retal cant be mitigated through armor, isnt a condition, and be kept up 100% of the time with that build it is pretty much impossible to solo them.

As far as solo vs group settings this build is very good at almost any setting. Solo you still do good damage and have significant CC in your hammer, along with the large amount of damage reduction and condition reduction. Small group combat is even better as you can charge in and soak up damage for the rest of the group, and still be a large damage threat to the point were people cant just ignore you.

Amins.3710:

Hey Bash,

Looks interesting. Maybe only go 5 in radiance and then put the other 5 in Virtues or Honor if you find you need a little extra survivability.

However, if you’re run’n w/ a group and everyone’s trying to stack vuln on the outset, the additional double blind and 6% is nice.

Yeah was thinking about that but since its the weekend and extremely hard to find non zerg vs zerg fights at the moment i figures the 10 in radiance would be better. Pls leap of faith applies higher stacking vulnerability due to the bug… Or mechanic, who knows if it is meant to be that way or not. Overall it obviously lacks the damage of your original build, but it really has a nice tanky nature which fits my playstyle alot better.

Almost the same exact build as the healway…. just some minor tweaks in the traits and weapon choices.

Chris: You go stay your white and gold stereotype guardian :P

Blasino: yeah, Im pretty cheap at the moment So I haven’t really Min/Maxed my gear out, and more or less build around the current gear I have. Also found the issue with the crit damage, my back piece is actually Rabid from back when I was trying out a condition build and forgot to switch back to a zerkers, also for some reason I actually have a Beryl Orb in my karka shell accessory, not an exquisite ruby. Which would most likely attribute to your math coming out different.

Edit: here you go chris, figured I would go with the colors of my favorite hockey team for a basis, since they are playing now. ^.^

So I ended up completing and testing out the modified build and have to say I am very pleased with my results. I created a new thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Retribution-Tanky-DPS-WvW-build/first#post1448609 With the details of what I did. It works amazingly well with all aspects, solo roaming, small group, and zerg vs zerg combat.

First off I have to give massive credit to Amins, as the trait layout is almost a carbon copy of his, however I have added a spin to it to make it my own.

The build:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3|1.1p.h19|2.1p.h17|1n.7r.1c.7r.1n.7r.1c.7r.1n.7r.1c.7r|1p.61.1n.67.1n.67.1j.67.1g.67.8g.67|u27c.a6.u16c.0.0|e

Weapons, Sigils, Armor, Runes, and Traits are all included in the link.

Utilities:
Signet of judgement
Smite Condition
Judge’s Intervention

Heal:
Shelter

Elite:
Renewed Focus

Food:
Sharpening stones
Bowl of lemongrass poultry soup

How the Build works:
First off this build is very defensively sound, 3k+ armor, signet of judgement reducing all damage by a further 10%, Runes of melandru paired with lemongrass soup gives you -65% condition duration on you and an added -25% stun duration. So not only are you taking very little damage from regular attacks, but conditions fall off you like they were barely there. In case one does stick around for a while there is always the sigil in the GS and smite condition to fall back on.

As far as healing goes, Zealous blade supplies a small but constant amount through attacking, while monk’s focus gives you that added burst healing. The big thing though is that these heals feel very powerful as the damage you will be taking is heavily reduced.

The play style I prefer is a mix of a line breaker or Roamer, and I think this build does both amazingly. The condition negation really helps the mobility as you are not tied down by snares/immobilizes/chills for nearly as long, and you can take a decent beating before you start to feel too much pressure. The Hammer also works amazingly for CC and should keep enemies near you long enough to ruin their day.

Below I have included a picture of my stats as for some reason the weapons are not included into the stats in the build calculator.

With regards to PvE/WvW you should always include food into your build. Certain builds (such as high crit based guardians with omnomberry pies) use food to the point that it makes the build very good, Things like straight stat bonuses are one thing, but the special foods like might on dodge/endurance regen, health regen, condition duration/reduction can all make or break certain builds. Consider it another tool to your class, like another sigil or rune that adds that little extra something to help make your build all that much nicer.

It isn’t too bad, Assuming you can avoid the thieves trying to backstab you when you are half health. (Only ran into this once when running with Christos, he kept yelling at me for being squishy because I got downed by the thief 3 times in a zerg v zerg fight) But other than that It worked pretty decently. Condition damage will hurt you pretty bad though, since the signets take time to activate and only remove one at a time. Found that out pretty hard fighting a confusion mesmer. I am actually looking into a making a modified build of Amnis’s 30/10/30/0/0 build, but we will see, I need to save up some gold and do some research before I actually try it.

Bookmarked it as soon as I clicked your link in the triforge pendant thread. Really nice to finally have a calc that can show true stats and what your full gear layout is without an essay on the forum. Also seems pretty updated since it actually had sigil of generosity as a choice.

As far as min max numbers crunching complaints… It really doesnt do any more than the pvp ones do, it just has all the gear available. Its also nice to be able to see if a build you are thinking about might work without spending the money for gear only to realize its a waste. And honestly people can do that enough as it is, most formulas are known, and all it takes is looking up stats on gear.

OK. So I have a new build that you might be interested in trying.

It is a 30/25/10/0/5 heavy DPS build that focuses on GS with variable off set choices. (I use hammer personally, as it doesn’t grab the extra Crit in RHS for the sword.) My gear and trait layout is this:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3|1.1p.h19|2.1p.h19|1n.a1.1c.a1.1n.a1.1c.a1.1n.a1.1c.a1|1p.61.1n.67.1n.67.1g.67.1j.67.8c.61|u27c.p29.a6.0.5|e

I use Signet of Resolve, Signet of Judgement, Bane signet, and Judges Intervention as my Utilities and Renewed focus as my elite per usual. With inscribed renewal, signet of resolve, and sigil of generosity conditions are not much of an issue. Damage is higher than anything else I have ran due to the 3.5k power, though the crit damage is rather low, the damage is more steady and can still rack up the numbers.

My healing comes mostly from Omnomberry pie/Zealous Blade, along with the increased healing out of signet of resolve, and also the added regen on virtue of resolve. CC is pretty easy with Bane signet, Hammer, and GS #3 and Judges interventions for gap closers. As far as defenses I do run less armor but I feel like having sigil of judgement makes up the difference, and also the added AoE weakness is amazing when you are fighting people with low crit, Also the protection up-time from hammer really helps.

My stats are pretty close to the build calculator stats as you can see in the picture below. I was wondering what you thought of the build and if you had any interest in actually trying it.

Danicco.3568:

In my opinion, not worth it.

I was really tempted in getting it at first, and if you want a balanced stats it’s worth it, but not if you’re just focusing on a few stuff.
I focus on Power/Toughness/Vitality, and my damage isn’t the best because of the lack of Critical and Critical Damage. While this helps both deficiencies, the loss of Power isn’t worth it in terms of raw damage.

Well you could look or figure the math if you want, but 50 Power > 40 Precision and 5% Critical Damage at least for my stats/gear/build.

My Soldier Build

With Triforge/Divinity

A small gain in health/defense but the power cost is too high in my opinion. The extra healing is helpful though if I’m thinking about support and it’s still a better damage than a support focused gear such as Cleric, but I’d rather do more damage and heal 5~ less on my VoR.

I am quoting this post, only for the reason that it has a build editor that ISN’T spvp based. thank you.

Amins.3710:

Typo…. giving him the benefit of the doubt. =]

FYI, your +CritDmg is 103% ~not 150% + 103%~ And no, you won’t deal more dmg then ~every zeal build~ out there. Not w/ 3k attk pwr. You’re barely breaking 4k Mighty Blows on non glass cannon lvl 80’s.

I have a couple DPS builds that I use and they’re great. Don’t listen to the people who can’t figure it out. check out the video’s in my sig.

Food buffs and run Meditations (thanks again Bash!), not AH. You’ll be plesently surprised.

Wait what am i getting thanked for? I was half reading the thread and noticed my name lol. Also I have a new build you might be interested in, once I get the time ill make a post in your thread about it.

On topic edit: its actually a GS focused build! 30/25/10/0/5 ill give the details when im not on my phone, please dont shun me until then!

Most likely because it is a racial skill and not a gaurdian skill. If i remember correctly the elite skills have the same issue with the virtue trait that makes them last longer.

Edit: looked it up on the wiki elites do not get the bonus due to them being racial skills. Most likely it is the same thing with prayer. Also prayer is alot weaker than most of our other heals so most likely was never noticed/tested.

Segnal.2530:

Yeah, burning condition is weak, only stacking duration… meh > condition removal. Retaliation is even weaker. If it´s damage was based on power, it´ll be more useful.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

It does get more damage off your power. And how is retaliation weaker than burning, unless you spec condition damage burning only does 352 damage per second, where Retaliation does a base of 267 per time you are hit. Which since most burst skills are multi-hit attacks, it dishes out a lot more than burning in the same time frame.

10/30/30/0/0 with right hand stength and meditation healing is one of the most popular damage based 1h builds atm, though as blood said, alot of people dont seem to like our 1h options. Also other people will shun you for going as a damage spec on the guardian despite then working fairly well.

Tyber Valens.5148:

I will be very surprised if they boost Guardian offensive …anything. Just look at the updates. They have already nerfed retaliation a while back limiting a damage build. The sword, an offensive weapon, received a bit of nerf from changes to vigorous precision. Changes which favored/didn’t hinder slower hammer and mace. Then the baffling changes to Spirit Weapons also served to hinder an already struggling damage boost.
Now compare this to changes made with support oriented weapons and build and you will see the direction of the class. Heck even our burn builds will become useless (in PvE) whenever they add Primordus. His minions are immune to burning.

Actually we did get a damage buff with blinds causing vulnerabilty in the same patch as the vig perc nerf. But it did kill AH 1h specs for the most part.

Really? The plan to thwart retaliation is to waste an on crit sigil that can only activate every 10 seconds, and has zero promise of getting that one boon out of the many we have? How about some serious suggestions instead of L2P and a useless sigil.

lenexkabol.9438:

Bakitten291:

lenexkabol.9438:

You have to be pretty skill-less to be killed by Retaliation alone or lazy to not look at your targets boons before spam attacking him. the buff does rather low damage compared to the average hit. There is more then one way to counter it and per second cons tend to deal way more.

As far as being skill less, you haven’t fought someone with the healway build before have you? 100% retal uptime and massive heals, you literally cant kill one before killing yourself. As far as being lazy to not look at boons, once again, doesn’t really matter if its up 100% of the time and only a few classes actually have boon removal, which is a gamble on removing it anyways.

You would have to hit a guard over 40 times never healing for it to even kill a low hp toon with the boon alone. Certain classes/build should be harder for other certain classes and builds to beat and every class can use boon removal. Some people have trouble killing thieves that don’t want to die others have trouble with guards. Unless your saying no one can kill a healway guard in which case maybe our base hps should be dropped ever lower and our healing nerfed below what it is.

Yes because the gaurd with retal isn’t going to be hitting you too… Honestly have you ever seen the healway guardian work? I have no issue with a bunker being a bunker, even more so when your hear has 2 defensive stats. (toughness and healing power), but when they can kill you mostly because you cant attack them without causing yourself significant damage it is kinda crazy. I actually dropped 15 points in my build to pick up the retaliation traits just because I did the math on it. I reflect 400+ damage everytime I am hit.

As far as boon removal goes, only 2 classes have it enough to make a difference, Necro and mesmer, Engineer and theives have one skill that removes 1 boon. Guardians can trait for it on burn, but has a 20 second cd making it useless. Warriors have none, eles have none, rangers have none. So no, not every class has boon removal, and only 2 have enough to make an actual difference.

Also I run with christos, the founder of the healway, and have fought against him before. I cant remember, nor can he, the last time he has died in a 1v1 or even a 2v1. The bunker aspect of the class makes sense since it uses two defensive stats. The lazy damage return source is what needs to be fixed.

Edit: Fixing typos from writing on phone and added Boon removal information.

lenexkabol.9438:

You have to be pretty skill-less to be killed by Retaliation alone or lazy to not look at your targets boons before spam attacking him. the buff does rather low damage compared to the average hit. There is more then one way to counter it and per second cons tend to deal way more.

As far as being skill less, you haven’t fought someone with the healway build before have you? 100% retal uptime and massive heals, you literally cant kill one before killing yourself. As far as being lazy to not look at boons, once again, doesn’t really matter if its up 100% of the time and only a few classes actually have boon removal, which is a gamble on removing it anyways.

There are alot of problems with retaliation to be honest though.

A. It is a lazy damage source, you get hit you deal damage back, not very action based of a mechanic.

B. The insane uptime we get. Traited virtue use (which comes with 40% extra uptime generally) a signet, 2 shouts( one of which lasts 10 seconds untraited), massive lightfield + finisher spam. Its kinda overkill for a single boon.

C. The potential damage return from multi hit burst abilities. Most burst abilities are multi hit attacks, ZD WW 100b, volley, rapid fire, etc etc. the issue is that all of these attacks will cause ALOT of damage back to you due to retaliation activating on every hit. It does 267 base damage before power. Should you say use a ZD and land every hit that 2136 damage automaticly returned. Also there is no way to mitigate the damage as armor has no effect on it.

I dont think stacking intesity would fix theses as someone would just blow all of their retaliation on someone doing a multi hit burst, and odds are they would do more return damage than was even caused inthe first place. Honestly I would like to see it go all together, but if not that a lower in uptime, or a cooldown on damage procs.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I’ve been reading a lot lately about people’s opinions on low health pools and one thing in particular has been bugging me. It is something about how a smaller health pool is better because heals then heal a better percentage than with a large health pool. Now, I’ll admit that I might be missing something. I realize that their are some runes and some traits that proc on health percent but none of those seem that beneficial to warrant less health. So I’d like to explain something.

Lower health is never better than more health. If you use a heal skill and you only have 12k health you will raise in a higher percent than a person using the same heal skill with 20k health, but the actual number (assuming same build and HP stats) will be the exact same. The actual percentage of your health is actually very unimportant in your survivability. Also, with a lower health pool and a healing guardian build, you have a higher chance of eventually getting to full health and then wasting heals. If you had more health then you would have more to heal and you would spend less time overhealing more time creating a softer cushion in your health pool.

A larger health pool is also better for receiving powerful strikes as it leaves you with more health afterwards and more breathing room. And, no, you may never get your health back to full during a fight but full health isn’t as important and how much health you do get back entirely depends on your healing.

All in all, I don’t know if this needed to be said. It seems pretty obvious to me but then again, as I said, I might be missing some aspect of the game. As it is right now, I can’t find any reason to realistically cut health down just for any “on health percent” trait or rune. Also, this discussion is not about the balance between health and toughness or any other stat, just a discussion on larger health pools and their superiority over smaller health pools. AND this is not a debate over Warriors vs. Guardians.

Ok sorry for all of that (especially if somebody proves me wrong) but I wanted to get it out there either to help others or to learn something new myself.

Im not exactly sure where you are getting this debate about smaller vs larger health pools from. The debates on the forums have been about the effectiveness of healing power with toughness vs vitality. No one is going to argue that with te same toughness having a smaller health pool is better, because it simply isnt. The issue has been is it better to take a smaller health pool with while taking less damage, or a bigger health pool and taking more damage.

Update: just went contested again, looks like you just beat the timer on it.

Balth on Isle of Janthir (NA) is open, not sure for how long but just noticed it.

alcopaul.2156:

korelg.7862:

for all the thoughness fans out there, Condition damage will eat you out in a flash if you dont have some vitality, Poison + Bleed and you are dead, even having just poison will make you suffer a lot more that a guardian with some vitality on

If you got low health, you pack condition removal, especially when you will go and finish some condi heavy maps.

Condi removal is player discretion, not a limitation of a mechanic.

Pretty much this, pure of voice, absolute resolution, Purity, Inscribed Removal, Signet of resolve, Smite Condition, Contemplation of purity, purging flames. Thats not even counting runes/sigils. Also, almost all of those traits can be picked up at the same time as well, granted thats overkill and would gimp your build… kinda… but yeah, we have pretty much the best condition removal in the game, so it should not be something you worry about when choosing gear.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvW-PvE-The-Healway-Guardian/first

Bakitten291:

After reading through a couple times I have to agree with alot of the OP. There are some things that I would do differently though. I would make Virtue of resolve into your mentioned virtue of altruism. I feel like we really don’t need another defensive virtue, and this would make it something far more active than just gaining health. However in doing this I think the numbers would need to be adjusted, as we are losing out on that passive regen, and also making it slightly weaker if your symbol changes were to go through.

As an added virtue I would like to see something more offensive and possibly snare related. There is an idea that I think would be awesome, but implementing it would be kind of weird. Something along the lines of “whenever you do X amount of damage, you apply a snare to your current target” and make the threshold like 7k or so. This would give a snare to all builds, but would favor the damage builds that need it more, since they could total the damage faster than defense minded builds. Also, make the on use of it do an AoE immobilize for 2-3 seconds. The buff you could get from 5 virtue trait could stay as fury. I think this would help alot with both our mobility, and getting a healing trait out of the valor line to free up some points. And obviously all the numbers regarding it could be adjusted to balance it.

Other than that I pretty much agree with most of the other things, just figured I would throw an added idea in there.

Just reposting this because I think it got missed and was wondering what people thought of the Idea.

Yaki.9563:

Bakitten291:

The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.

Only true if you take consistent damage, never get spiked, don’t take much condition damage, and don’t get back to full health during the fight. That doesn’t sound like GW2 PvE.

Without toughness your getting spiked higher, making the healing less significant. Condition damage is situational depending on the build, and most bunkers run high condition removal as it is. And just remember, it takes longer to get to full health during the fight with stacked vit as well. In no way am I saying that vit isn’t good, I’m just saying that Healing power synergizes (not a word) with toughness far better than it does with Vit.

The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.

I used signet of judgement for a while back when vigor on crit had no cd. I mess with it every now and then but was never a fan of having a utility that I am too afraid to actually use. i may look back into it with my current build but im not sure when I will have a chance to mess with it next.

Ok, I was just wondering. Until yesterday I never had that combo fail on me before, might have just been because he went over it at the highest point in the banish launch arc.

10/30/30/0/0 is generally the closest you can get to glass cannon without making you super squishy. grab a mix of knights/zerkers/valks gear and go to town. even with some soldier gear mixed in with that im still at 3k+ attack, 43% hammer crit, 69% 1h sword crit, with 79% crit damage. while still having 2.8k armor. if you want a bit more of a build that can dodge, you can always drop RHS and go 10/25/30/5/0 for vigor on crit. just make sure you keep 10 in zeal and 25 in radiance for 20% extra damage against burning foes (which is great since VoJ use will pretty much keep perm burning up in most dungeons)

So I started a 1v1 open field fight against an asuran ele earlier. During the fight I cought him in Ring of Warding and proceded to use banish to bounce him off it. However instead of bouncing he literally flew right through it untouched. He had no stability buff before during or after the skill use. (which would have stopped the knockback anyways, but even when he did land, there was no stability buff. Has anyone else had issues with this combo doing this? As this is the first time I have seen it not work correctly when the enemy had no stabilty buff.

Something I tested out last night if you prefer to use a hammer instead of sword/offhand, go with 10/25/30/0/5 and switch to AH and run SYG and HTL. along with judges. Works very nicely in a group set up compared to the 10/30/30. Also with burning on your target you can get some nice 5-6k MB crits also the added control from the hammer is good against people you just cant burst down that quickly.

kidbs.8920:

Archer.1658:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Archer.1658:

kidbs.8920:

Ynna.8769:

kidbs.8920:

So basically you’re saying play your best and hope the guardian sucks right? A smart guardian will pace himself as well.

The difference being that a Warrior that paces himself can, when the right opportunity arises, call upon burst that could be enough to end a Guardian, whereas a Guardian who paces himself just dies slowly.

I may not be able to unleash 100b amounts of damage, but I can pop an 8k whirling wrath on someone. It’s not like Guardians don’t output good damage. And trust me when I say you don’t have to be a glass cannon to do the damage that I just described.

Proof of 8k Whirling wrath please. No 25 might stacks, no 25 stacks of blood lust, no upleveled naked people.

And no food buff either right? :P But on a more serious note, glass canon has many different definitions so it’s hard to say what kidbs means. If you put enough in zeal/rad you can output 11k WW on good crits but you give up too many good traits.

IMO, I think a competent AH guard can give a competent warrior a run for his money. I don’t think either class has an advantage over the other, it’s really dependent on player skill in higher level play. What I do believe tho is warriors have a much more efficient setup to get the job done so in most cases. So competent players (not pros per say) can usually show off warriors much easier than guards.

I don’t really think this debate can be ever swayed unless there are options for 1v1 deathmatches. But I’m down for a fightclub with a ‘pro’ warrior anyday. Can’t say I’d win all matches but I’m willing to bet that I’d win 50% of the time.

I want to see an 8k whirl wrath under those circumstances, you won’t even get close to 5k on a 3k+ armor’d opponent. No food, no stacks, no stacking might (other than empower from staff). I mean, if were talking about a full glass cannon guardian with 100~ish crit damage with 3.3k+ attack, then I suppose its possible, but you would be squishier than a glass cannon thief..so to what point does it serve.

First of all, how many people in pvp are running around with 3k armor… not as many as you seem to think. Second of all I never said it was without food buffs. Who realistically runs around with no food buffs in WvW? You would be a fool and gimping yourself.

Unbuffed I’m running at around 2090 power (over 3k attack), 15.5k hp, 2.6k armor, 48% crit and 91% crit damage. I use a 0/10/30/30/0 build (altruistic healing/ empowering might). I also use Omnomberry Ghosts and sharpening stones or skale venom. I build up stacks of bloodlust with one weapon and use superior rune of accuracy on my greatsword.

I have no problem killing people with this build as I generate plenty of healing from my crits alone, have 2 stunbreakers, stability, multiple blocks, damage immunity from my elite, removal of 2 conditions every 10 seconds, and 3 different ways to blind.

You always seem so down on Guardians but I’m guessing that the problem is you haven’t quite mastered the class yet.

Dont bother explaining to archer. He is such a downer about guardians I don’t know why he even posts in the guardian forums. Just move along and continue owning like we know we do.

Fix it. fix it. fix it. fix it. fix it.

For those that don’t get the refrence. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Isjgc0oX0s )

I want to watch :P