Guild Wars 2

Many would agree that thief is hard as hell now compared to all the faceroll instagib in this game since HoT released, esp the AoE ones lol. Its really not for people that expect to live after a single mistake. I suggest starting D/P, check out metabattle.com.

But we’re balanced cuz SB5 and stealth or something.

At this point if ranger pets could decap and had a profession mechanic button to rez, we’d literally be worthless. Lol passive pet attacks hit harder than backstab pretty often now.

If you’re D/P, I’d say SA.

That steal → stealth from Hidden Thief → Backstab combo on demand is too good. Also the increase in stealth time will make sneaking to decap easier. Hidden thief also makes for a good “oh kitten stealth pls” button on low CD. Shadowshot should make you relentless enough to make up for lost damage from not taking CS. Overall, it is a lot safer and survivable which is what D/P needs since outside of stealth its defensive options are weak (no condition clear, only single target/small field blinds).

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

On a related note, does anyone have any vanilla s/d builds that they feel good about and are willing to share? I’m thinking PvP specifically. I’d be interested to know about other player’s PvP builds, at least if they’re having success with it.

The closest you will get to feeling as useful as old S/D acro without Daredevil (which IMO is not great..) is DA CS T Marauder with No Quarter and Trickster. Has OK sustain with Withdraw CD reduced to old baseline at least, and conditions removals from Tricks and signet of Agility.

Main idea is you are a glass cannon, similar to D/P CS but with more cleave and less stealth. I prefer S/D to D/P for running CS because IMO evades are a more reliable defense mechanic than the weak blinds D/P puts out (single target and small AoE). Especially with all the AoE brain dead spam you see in PvP today, blinds and stealth are worthless compared to evades. More mobility is a plus too since that seems to be the only thing thieves are allowed to have anymore.

Don’t bother running acro, the “survivability” you gain is nowhere near compensating for the damage you lose.

IGN: Koolgai Smurf
Thief Type: Artisan/Teacher(?)
Server: Blackgate + alt on Fort Aspenwood
Experience with thief: First toon and first 80 since April 2014. Around 3k hours total experience. I consider myself very capable in all game modes on thief, but I stick to WvW and PvP 99% of the time. Like, I only had up to Kessex Hills discovered on my thief on my second account until HoT released. Just want to join for discussions.

Jackums.3496:

sinject.4607:

a mesmer, the profession responsible for locking more people out of the power meta than any other (a mesmer has won every major power 1v1 tournament for the past 2+ years).

That’s why Thief has been Mesmer’s hardcounter for the past 2 years, a trend that was only broken during the temporary PU meta. You’re right, 1v1 tournaments are accurate and indicative of the conquest meta, which Mesmer has only been a part of for the past 4 months, prior to that having been basically irrelevant for almost a year.

TL;DR Hardly. Thief pushed other zerk classes out of the meta long before cele or might stack was ever a thing. Mesmer only managed to stay relevant for its utility. It was always an inferior Thief as far as burst/spike roles are concerned.

Why was rampage war meta for a while? Why was meditation guardian meta for longer?

Even if all the QQ is real, how does this justify thief’s current spot? At the moment, if rangers could send pets to decap we would be deleted. This just sounds like salty Mesmer QQ about being hard countered for a period of time. Well now, thief hard counters no one and is hard countered by several builds. At least mesmer was a pain for other melee classes in the past. But I guess that’s OK right? Just because we were meta before, lol and we’re still ‘meta.’

Also, a thief that cannot burst is worthless. All the other zerk classes that were pushed out of play at least have other builds that can focus on both sustain and damage in a viable way. A thief that isn’t glass won’t do kitten. If we put in any sustain, it truly shows in the damage we put out, ex. Marauder seriously 5k backstab is lucky to me. If we try to sustain with our active defenses, we lose the point. If anything is to blame, it is thief’s lack of build diversity.

Exemplar.1479:

You literally can use ANY Stability-granting skill and walk right out of it. The senseless calling for nerfs (seriously…an ELITE that only holds for ONE SECOND is your desire???) needs to stop.

Stability. You can walk RIGHT THROUGH IT.

Lol, an elite that CCs for a second is terrible amirite? Maybe basilisk venom would like a word with you. Thieves never get cool toys.

Lol, even in the sorry state it’s in, thief is the scapegoat and forever OP. As a former thief that has essentially rerolled Mesmer for serious PvP because it’s 1000 times easier now, learn to kittening play. The bunk god mode might stacking meta is a problem beyond thief, know why? Thief has been gutted in terms of combat ability for nearly 6 months and the meta is still kitten. In fact, it’s filled with more cancer now than ever.

But yeah blame the 66666 burst never die gankerino evade spam permastealth thief.

No solo Q still

No ranked Q, forced to put up with kitten maps and no standard models

Elites so OP virtually make game P2W

Guard traps lol

Not related to this forum, but new WvW maps killed anything other than zerging

TY Anet, genius.

Proof that Anet knows condition damage is too good for their potential survivability? Can we get another review at condition formulas?

Reroll we are obsolete and done.

Woo with half the classes getting stealth plus super speed and vampirism nerf thief may actually get pushed out of the meta and the “thief is fine cuz it’s been meta forever and sb5” crowd can kitten.

Don’t use venoms, they offer no survivability.

SB is more than 5. 4 is a godsend vs high healing builds, and always use it on downed enemies.

3 is an on demand evade better than the one on d/d 3.

2 is an AoE backstab. I kittening love clusterbomb, so much damage.

1 is AoE ranged pressure that with multiple targets can hit for 3k per shot on your original target, and the stealth attack is an immobilize that is perfect for securing team bursts or your own bursts (esp clusterbomb!).

Honestly thieves that only use SB to port around confuse me, it is one of the most effective ranged weapons in a team fight.

Thief with a few thousand hours and one year of maining d/d in WvW here.

If you are looking to bring d/d and p/p into PvP, just a heads up you will get flamed for using the two least viable thief sets. Our job in PvP right now is not full on bombing targets to 100 – 0 them in a burst. In fact, that is very hard to so and will most likely result in you dying each time, even if you play perfectly. We used to have two viable builds with d/p and s/d, but since acro line getting destroyed we only have d/p SA. We cannot get into the mindset of defense through offense anymore. We need to take max survivability options to survive (SA and rune of vampirism) in order to have any impact. And please don’t say that you’ll get better or find a way to make your idea work. Sorry, but I am trying to do a kindness to people you are queuing with. Better and more experienced thieves than you have tried and realized how much easier the current meta build is. It sucks and d/p is a boring and mechanical feeling set (BTW I main s/d in WvW), but for the sake of your team, use every advantage you have and try out the meta d/p build. It is far better at fulfilling our role right now, which seems to be ganking fair fights and stealthing to run and decap points. It has on demand stealth with d/p and sb 5 which is what keeps us meta as we are too weak to contest points or 1 v 1. We aren’t capable or built to do anything else in a match until future patches hopefully.

-3 years into game’s existence to l2p against a predictable mechanic
-Many hard counters to stealth inc with HoT
-Stealth is still somehow OP

Thanks, gave me a good chuckle

SrebX.6498:

I’m by no means experienced with the thief class, but I just want to express my opinion here.
I think thieves have gotten so used to running full glass, relying on nothing but stealth keep them alive, that now they can’t get a hold of anything new.
DD basically have the ability to chain evades all day long while still putting out good damage. Brazil even showed in his video once a 100% evade uptime on against a golem. I think you thieves just need to give this whole thing a shot, and start thinking about none stealth reliant builds

Yeah man, I’m sure none of us have ever tried a non-stealth build. You sound like one of the QQ’ers that got us into this state in the first place. All whining, all while not knowing how to even play the class. Do you know what happened when thieves actually had a non-stealth build that was viable? It was called OP dodge spam, gutted, then resold to us for $50. And another thing, try playing a no glass thief. Go to PVP and try any other amulet aside from Marauder and Zerk, go and create that Soldier thief meta. Even those two amulets are kitten for thieves, one makes us die to the wind and the other makes us hit like the wind.

Stun becomes unbreakable and stacks.

Enemy affected by venom receives Disarmed debuff for 6 seconds

While Disarmed, enemy cannot use profession skills.

Warrior -> cannot gain adrenaline or use burst skill.
Engi -> cannot swap kits or use toolbelt.
Ranger -> pet is in unbreakable stun for duration.
Mesmer -> cannot shatter or summon illusions.
Guardian -> virtue passives and actives are disabled.
Elementalist -> cannot swap attunements.
Necromancer -> cannot use deathshroud.
Revenant -> energy cannot be gained or used.

Sounds OP right? I wonder what that would feel like, not being able to use profession mechanics and having trait lines rendered useless.

Zerk Mantra PU Mesmer.

Go Chaos Inspiration Dueling. Take harmonious mantras to work with mantra heal and mantra of pain. It’s as disgusting as old D/P SA and then some. Any damage you lose from not taking Domination is compensated by power spike. I still one shot people out of stealth while having AoE heals and conditions removal from mantra heal and mantra charging, as well as heal/cleanse on shatter.

Then come back to thief. I did that and realized how poop even d/p SA is compared to PU Mantra Mesmer.

One time I was roaming with a guildie. We ran into an Anet dev on an enemy server (JQ or TC) playing warrior. We destroyed his party of 4 several times and had our gloat on the bodies. We were two S/D thieves.

Eventually we run into them one last time, except the dev rerolled to thief. What do I see them do? While speced S/P, the first thing they do is shadow refuge the group. Next time I see him he’s just trying auto attacking my buddy who is ignoring him. Called target and insta downed him and won the fight.

Sorry if S/D or thief gets more nerfs lol.

Yup, and not even simple stuff like burn stacking damage potential. Outside of PvP, WvW is even more nuts with burning and confusion. Confusion passive ticks from Mesmer scepter 3 have damaged me for 7k, without using any skills.

Why is this kind of burst damage allowed for builds that can invest in defensive stats?

Or are they literally just impossible? No matter what third trait line they pick, they are still a god in a different way.

Earth = Stone heart and high protection to mitigate our burst
Air = Extra DPS and much more passive CC, our stunbreakers are usually few
Fire = Blinds (taken from us, given to them RIP cloaked in shadow) and of course burning

Seriously, allowing confusion to passively tick in order to “buff” it in PVE was one of the dumbest courses of action I have seen. The passive tick alone hurts as much as bleed and can do >7k from a mesmer scepter 3 with condi duration food. It has achieved nothing but make WVW more condition cancer than it already was. Furthermore, it has done nothing to make conditions any more viable in PVE.

No goals achieved, other aspects of game ruined, on par with Anet’s resume.

I think a cap at 5 would be more fair, like chill. How is chill so OP that it needs a 5 cap, but burning isn’t?

Such a carry rune. Or at least take away some power or the life stealing. Needs a nerf.

I still main it, but the only thing keeping me from maining d/p is how boring that set is. It is ez cheezy compared to s/d.

My advice is to pick your battles. And play smart, take a second to kite if they think you’ll burst from stealth, think about the long game and not quick short term burst if you think you can’t finish.

Learn to manipulate stealth mechanics if you haven’t, such as chaining stealth. One thing I like to do is while in stealth, cast B venom, wait for stealth to wear off, then open with 3 → 3 at just in time after stealth stops. With the stun still active from venom, assuming they don’t break, you can cnd right away for more stealth.

With all the blocks from more PU mesmers and blinds from both mesmers and fire eles, larcenous strike seems like it should be more rewarding as it is gated behind an easily read skill like flanking strike.

Something like steal a small amount of health if target had no boons, or transfer one condition seems fair.

Saiyan.1704:

MAN.9046:

burn guard is fine? they can insta apply 10 stacks of burn on you no trouble. Just limit the stacks to sayy 5, y’know.. kinda like they kittening did to chill being a damaging condi before it even gets released. yet burning is left to run amuck here for a month(or more?) with no action. Absolutely disgusting how they disregard some things

In terms if Burn Burst damage, we can use JI+Zealot’s Flame to pull of an instant 6 burn stacks. It’s well justified considering we have to sacrifice a stunbreaker (JI), the 2k heal that comes with it, as well as risk a full condi cleanse. I usually apply 1 stack after the other and pray my torch doesn’t miss.

We can WW inside PF to reach 12+ burn stacks in 3s but that assumes we don’t get interuppted. When WW finalizes, the burns could immediately get cleansed off or transfered.
Most Guardians use Absolute Resolution and Indomitable Courage. They rely entirely on PF/JI/Torch to do damage and these skills are ridiculously telegraphed.

We’re not the best1v1 class and we have to work harder to survive in team fight scenarios. People don’t realize Burn Guardians weaknesses.

Burn Guards are fine.

What a shocker that the guy that has been trying to make condition guardian a thing since the beginning of time thinks burn guard is fine…

Imagined Burden vs Mental Anguish vs Power Block

Which is best in which situations? Assuming a roaming WvW and PvP setting.

SalaZin.2509:

I mean if eles are THAT good, that op, I gotta wonder why we never see 5 ele teams in the tournaments as well. I mean if they really have not a single counter, they never die, get pulled off point, it’d just be counter-productive and silly not to use 5 eles. amirite?

Terrible reasoning. Just because a spec is OP 1 v X does not mean it can fulfill every roll in the game. Can an ele easily steal a beast like a mesmer or thief can? Or change the battle like engi/mesmer moa and warrior rampage can? Portals? Team stealth? Team stability?

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ah yes, QQ from a thief wrecked by a ranger with taunt. Love it.

Well, after testing taunt doesn’t go through evades and it’s hard to evade anyway as it is an instant cast before casting F2 and it doesn’t go through invulns now after the patch a couple weeks back when it was hotfixed.

Stability renders it useless, maybe try doing that because it is on a 15s ICD or stun break it – you know, shadowstep or just steal to break the taunt and use shortbow #5 for gap. Since it was fixed taunt has given me much issues at all, before that though it was absolutely broken.

The taunt and resistance bug needs to be fixed though.

It going through blocks is intended even though it doesn’t explicitly state or they would have fixed it when they fixed it going through evades/invulns. I guess if it weren’t the case then I should say steal (or any instant cast that doesn’t explicitly state stun break on it) doesn’t say stun break on it, but you can use it to get out of situations or mitigate damage (signet of stone, distortion on mesmer, etc) while stunned with it since it’s an instant cast. Guess we can get fixes to all of that stuff if taunt is to be adjusted?

But QQing about removing taunt from the game won’t work. One class has access to the skill and it’s a class currently struggling hard in top tier pvp which is what this game is balanced around… It’s going absolutely nowhere ESPECIALLY since revenant is getting taunt as well. Just get good and adapt. That’s what thieves told most rangers who were getting kittenwrecked by them pre-patch , now they have a mitigation in the form of CC for spamming thieves. Good thieves have no issue with it.

1. Shadowstep is on a 50 sec cd. Taunt is on a 15 sec cd. I believe rangers will be the ones doing the spamming here.

2. Steal doesn’t break do anything about taunt. Have fun achieving nothing by stealing to the pet that you can’t untarget.

3. Shortbow 5, then lose half your initiative to just teleport away then do what?

Play the class before you talk down to it please. Power rangers have enough CC as is with gs 4 and 5, LB 4 and pet knockdowns. Taunt is too strong as is and needs counterplay such as the bare minimum of evading. And a higher cd.

Your QQ about prepatch, rangers actually countered d/p thieves. S/d was a counter to power rangers, but riperino to that build.

Abaddon Dies In End.3794:

So I main d/p thief, and, until recently, I thought I was pretty good at it. Before, I could take down most classes 1v1 most of the time (with the exception of engi, guard, and sometimes warrior), but now, I find myself running from fights so often that I’m thinking about switching my main to mesmer.

My question is are other experienced thieves finding the same thing? Or have I just gotten worse all of a sudden?

It’s not just you.

Thieves have been gutted to the point of +1 a fight or run in most situations. At the moment we are a simple ganker and infiltrators arrow spammer for decaps. Almost every other class can put out similar or greater damage with more survivability. For now, just know when to do the d/p stealth dance to run from losing situations, and exercise map awareness to see where you are needed.

Vieux P.1238:

5k? …… Your crackers will be fine thx. 5k per clone? wut!?! you a rabbit? … not even in the best possible outcome. 4.3 to 4.5 at best if the mesmer is full zerky squishy build. But lets say 5k per clone. I can see why anybody that has no sustain abilities & is of a squishy build & dose’nt dodge the shatter would melt. Sure! Other then that. the battle should last long anoth to determine who has the best skill sets.

But i’m curious, you telling me your not bursting out more damage? dude, something wrong with your build. you need to recheck.

another glass of whine with your crackers?

I’ve had mesmer friends test it in PvP. They report 6.5k is the highest they can get, I am assuming with max might and vulnerability.

Lol, dodging a shatter? How do you dodge a GS2 F1 shatter that the mesmer was able to walk up to you with 22 seconds of stealth (PU mass invis, decoy, torch 4). Melee range GS2 F1 alone with no other clones hits way harder than backstab. Maybe YOU should go check your numbers of backstab on a full health target. Most I can get is maybe 7.5k with no might (thieves have no reliable access) and no vulnerability (no reliable access) on a full health target. Your QQ about thieves “outbursting” mesmers has to do with you sitting around in their dagger auto attack.

L2P.

Vieux P.1238:

Bllade.1029:

Vieux P.1238:

. Until you decide to adapt.

Adapt to what?

If your really asking me that, i shouldn’t be the one worried on how long i bin playing this game. :S

We’ve adapted just fine..

On the other hand, how are you adapting to your newly rebalanced mesmer that does not rely on bugs/broken OP skills/traits?

Oh Sic Em. A skill with zero counterplay but run for your life and line of sight. Nothing to dodge, insane range, higher reveal time than normal.

Vieux P.1238:

swinsk.6410:

Feel like moving to maurader or even valk isn’t worth it.

We still are very squishy and can’t stay on a point. Valk maybe die in 5-6 hits. Maurader 3-4, berserker, 2-3.

The offense you lose from not using berserker just doesn’t seem worth the trade off. Which is why I’m still running berserker.

The offense to defense ratio from going into more defense ammy is way off for thief because of our innate squishyness…

Oh plzzz. the thief damage outburst is the highest of all the classes. Just because you cant one shot anybody no more does not mean the damage outcome is not worth it. You got to realise that everybody is using a more sustain amulet. Or else die from a burst. Seriously, are you really expecting a thief to bunk & tank a point & dish out one shots? No! You hit high damage…you get out…you reset… & you repeat. In the end, you almost always win. but unless a class has a squishy build, one shots not gonna happen.

Highest damage? I’ve had mindwrack hit 5k per clone on me, not even counting mirror blade. That’s about a little less than one backstab per clone. The rampage warriors can hit upwards of 7k autoattacks.

Not everyone is using marauders. I’m plenty fine on zerk on my Mesmer, as is lord Helseth. Probably has something to do with the 4k advantage mesmers naturally have over thief in HP.

The rest of your post, do you want some cheese with your whine?

Yeah except that thief makes one mistake and he’s dead…

Meanwhile I survive so many situations I shouldn’t have on Mesmer. 6 second low health decoy and vamp runes together is fool proof.

Lol people still have that kitten “SA is bad” attitude?

BurrTheKing.8571:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Let me give this a shot…

From the pov of someone who has a Teef but dislikes playing it it AND against it, D/P is less OP and more of a joy-killer. Fighting against a D/P Teef is boring because it basically all comes down to how obnoxious fighting the build is. You spend much of the fight blinded and waiting for the Teef to make their move from stealth. Nothing is more frustrating than blocking a backstab but the Teef just keeps pressing that 1 key over and over till it hits. If your countermeasures are going to outlast their stealth, they can just drop another Black Powder and Heartseeker through it and start the whole process over.

Even when I win I generally just walk away annoyed, it isn’t fun to fight against in any way. Everything about the build…actually Teef in general, feels excessive. It’s either an annoying amount of blind and stealth on D/P, an annoying amount of teleports and evades on S/D, or an annoying amount of stuns on S/P.

I would actually frequently play my Teef if they felt less spammy and gained a bit more sustain in the form of other mechanics. When I play other classes I can generally build to have multiple different mechanics in my build. When I swap weapons, kits, or attunments the feel of my character can majorly change. When you swap weapons on a Teef, it’s probably to play defensively until you can go back you your main weapon set. On that main set, you’ll also often have skills that are rarely ever used.

As a GW1 player, I was expecting Teef to be more similar to Assassin, but it isn’t. That class had issues too but its damage came from a generally long combo of attacks and you were punished for messing it up or mistiming your burst (there were a couple of exceptions).

Also, Black Powder on downed classes that need to land a projectile feels dirty. Most of those attacks are not quick enough to allow you to cleanse the blind and still land the 2 skill. Meanwhile, Teef gets a downed state that is VERY good at denying stomps.

So yah, it’s less that the class is OP, and more that it’s generally not fun to fight against and feels “spammy” even when it’s an experienced player.

What does spammy even mean lol? You say thief feels spammy and then go on to say that you believe thieves swap weapons to play defensively. Sorry, but that sounds like another “mechanic” to me.

I’m going to use shortbow as an example (most common). Lots of thieves, assuming yourself included, will literally never use shortbow in a fight unless running away/3 evade spamming because they never even bothered to see it as an offensive set as well. Yet it has so much utility and damage that at the right time it wins fights. It has immobilize, clusterbomb, poison fields, hell I have secured teammates’ stomps with the blind from infiltrator’s arrow. Scrub thieves that don’t realize their offhand’s potential does not count against the class, much less make it “spammy.” Warrior hammer spams stuns and CC how spammy!!! Engis spam nades, kite all day and spam gear shield!!! See, I too can call other class mechanics I don’t like “spammy.”

As far as the d/p 5 QQ come on. We’ve already gotten the nerf stick for that once (pulses every 2 sec instead of every 1 sec). Literally impossible to reasonably nerf it any more.

Warriors, Guardians, and Rangers generally swap their weapons very frequently because they have cool downs. They physically CAN’T spam in most cases (you can argue that Rapid Fire feels pretty spammy). These classes don’t have a “main set” and an “offhand” set, they have two main weapons. Spam means using the same skill over and over on little to no CD. Even if you are timing the use of your skills as a Teef, the fact is that with no CD’s it’s going to feel like you’re just constantly pushing out the same attack over and over.

Yes, other classes all have “spam” in one way or another, but Teef is DESIGNED around it. Also, your example of using Warrior’s Hammer is probably the worst possible example considering the base CDs on most of those skills XD.

I am aware that SB is a great utility weapon, but I would much rather that Teef weapon sets complement each other and comboing between weapon sets is where your damage comes from, not from 1 or 2 skills on your main weapon set.

Global CD in the form of initiative is very real. If anything, I would contend that as a hammer war you could mash 1-5 in any order and see numbers. Try that as any kind of thief and run out of initiative.

D/p is the wrong set to be talking about when it comes to having 1 or 2 often used moves.

Thief weapon sets can combo with each other. I have seen s/p d/d thieves use s/p 5 then swap and d/d 2 for stealth. I often use shortbow stealth immobilize then swap to cleave with melee set, like d/p 3 and auto attacks.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Let me give this a shot…

From the pov of someone who has a Teef but dislikes playing it it AND against it, D/P is less OP and more of a joy-killer. Fighting against a D/P Teef is boring because it basically all comes down to how obnoxious fighting the build is. You spend much of the fight blinded and waiting for the Teef to make their move from stealth. Nothing is more frustrating than blocking a backstab but the Teef just keeps pressing that 1 key over and over till it hits. If your countermeasures are going to outlast their stealth, they can just drop another Black Powder and Heartseeker through it and start the whole process over.

Even when I win I generally just walk away annoyed, it isn’t fun to fight against in any way. Everything about the build…actually Teef in general, feels excessive. It’s either an annoying amount of blind and stealth on D/P, an annoying amount of teleports and evades on S/D, or an annoying amount of stuns on S/P.

I would actually frequently play my Teef if they felt less spammy and gained a bit more sustain in the form of other mechanics. When I play other classes I can generally build to have multiple different mechanics in my build. When I swap weapons, kits, or attunments the feel of my character can majorly change. When you swap weapons on a Teef, it’s probably to play defensively until you can go back you your main weapon set. On that main set, you’ll also often have skills that are rarely ever used.

Also, Black Powder on downed classes that need to land a projectile feels dirty. Most of those attacks are not quick enough to allow you to cleanse the blind and still land the 2 skill. Meanwhile, Teef gets a downed state that is VERY good at denying stomps.

So yah, it’s less that the class is OP, and more that it’s generally not fun to fight against and feels “spammy” even when it’s an experienced player.

What does spammy even mean lol? You say thief feels spammy and then go on to say that you believe thieves swap weapons to play defensively. Sorry, but that sounds like another “mechanic” to me.

I’m going to use shortbow as an example (most common). Lots of thieves, assuming yourself included, will literally never use shortbow in a fight unless running away/3 evade spamming because they never even bothered to see it as an offensive set as well. Yet it has so much utility and damage that at the right time it wins fights. It has immobilize, clusterbomb, poison fields, hell I have secured teammates’ stomps with the blind from infiltrator’s arrow. Scrub thieves that don’t realize their offhand’s potential does not count against the class, much less make it “spammy.” Warrior hammer spams stuns and CC how spammy!!! Engis spam nades, kite all day and spam gear shield!!! See, I too can call other class mechanics I don’t like “spammy.”

As far as the d/p 5 QQ come on. We’ve already gotten the nerf stick for that once (pulses every 2 sec instead of every 1 sec). Literally impossible to reasonably nerf it any more.

Really? People don’t see the problem with d/p versus other thief weapon sets? The infinite stealth has no problem huh? I have been able to stealth literally infinitely (stopped at 5 minutes) with Hidden Thief, d/p, blinding powder and refuge. When fighting a d/p player you have to try twice as hard as the d/p thief. On demand no problemo stealth, and if shadow shot hits the d/p thief has instantly won that trade (shadowshot dps = higher than autoattack and blinds, and if you’re a sword thief you’re at an even bigger disadvantage due to dagger’s faster autoattack), and daze on demand.

Take any thief that uses d/p offhand idc what set it is, p/d d/p conditions, s/d d/p, d/d d/p, and they’ll be half the threat that they were without d/p compared to being carried by d/p. However, I do agree with OP that Anet heavily needs to give sword and offhand dagger more utility before even touching d/p.

And still no dev response. Meanwhile, on the Guardian forum on patch day a dev responded to QQ about lack of a SHIELD buff. Message is clear Anet, all thieves should reroll or quit I guess

Thoughts?

I feel that X/D just has so little to offer. X/P has a blind field and daze, while we have a cripple that’s not worth the initiative unless there’s two enemies, and CnD which is easily blinded, blocked, or evaded due to the predictable cast time. With acro gutted as it is, there is just not enough defense available for dagger thieves compared to pistol blinds. Cloaked in Shadows as a GM trait is also just not a reasonable solution as it is not justifiable to take it over Rejuvenation.