Guild Wars 2

Gotejjeken.1267:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Gotejjeken.1267:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Little bit of everything for all other Legendaries? All other Legendaries 99.99% Pve and .01% WvW…… you don’t have to pvp to get Legendary weapons and used to not even WvW before the GoB change…

You were right up until reward tracks became a thing. Outside of map exploration I don’t have to pve at all to get the original set.

New set more pve gated, that’ll probably change when next expansion comes out.

Even so, making legendary armor raid exclusive is just like making legendary armor WvW exclusive.

The only prestige items that are sensible to be this way are money pvp items. Because that takes skill not everyone has. Just don’t call them legendary.

How was I wrong I said up until the GoB change you didn’t have to WvW since WvW map completion was removed vey shortly after launch. Before the GoB reward track you could get all legendary weapons by doing 100% PvE, now it takes 4.5-8 hrs max of WvW to get a GoB.

That’s just it, at launch you had to WvW to get badges of honor to get the gift of battle. As you mentioned there was also map completion in WvW.

The reason PvP wasn’t a thing as it had a separate wardrobe and everything, it exists ‘outside’ of everything else.

Also, when we say PvE, we have to take into account what that meant. It meant going out and doing karma related activities for obsidian, doing actual world completion and hearts, etc. etc. It wasn’t just tied to dungeons, fractals, or any ‘elite’ content.

I do agree with having prestige armor though. If there is prestige armor for raids, great. Have some for WvW, or whatever. In fact, dungeons did just this before they were erased from being relevant.

My main problem is calling this legendary armor when it is gated behind a very specific activity. It goes against what the word legendary has meant these past four years.

How though? Legendarys are gated behind specific content open world Pve is all weapons pvp has a back raids armor WvW nothing

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

I don’t understand why you guys are all up in arms over ED, it’s has always been the worst thing to have.

Backed off already? You make me sad. I complained about Shiro heal back at his reveal, during beta i wanted to get it changed. Idc if it will deal damage or not, i want reliable heal ability in a healing skill slot. I wouldnt give a kitten if it was an utility skill, but its healing one and i would like to have reliable healing. When i played guardian i was farting off healing no matter what i pressed, i didnt had to worry about hitting someone/taking hits on purpose. When i played warrior i was healing for 900hp/s while being afk at the same time.

No healing skill has so many counters like ED and the worst thing is we cant even swap it away for something else without losing other utility skills unlike all 8 classes for whatever reason. This heal is on par with water spirit – they are the worst healing abilities in the game, even thief skelk is better and you dont see it being picked by anyone cus its trash ability. ED the olny heal in game which has “interval”, can be reflected to heal your enemy instead, deflected, blinded and now also “daggers” are lost on block/evade.

I want them to delete this ability already and give Shiro a new healing ability https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meditation_of_the_Reaper
or
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Battle_Scars

In general, revenant is a class which is up to a overhaul, he wasnt even supposed to have wep swap in the first place but the designer responsible for this class kittened up and we ended up with what we have now. A bugged beta class where most of the abilities are simply unviable and something like number changes wont fix anything.

I sitll wonder why they ever touched sword mh in the first place when it was good where it was. Now we have a skill that aims into houses and other bullkitten and they dont even bother to fix the mess they created. So basically we are with sword that is kittened OP in 1v1 but useless in 1vX. The sword desing is really off in general, autoattack want you to group as many enemeis in one place as possible while 2 and 3 are doing the opposite. Anet logic is too stronk for me really.

Really if you are having problems with ED, it sounds like you may be a little impotent……

Cynova.7406:

Why only raids? If we can get legendary weps in a variety of regular pve content why not the legendary armor? Not everyone likes raids and a top tier of equipment shouldn’t be exclusive only to those who want to raid.

Will there be other options and ways to acquire legendary armor is this the only way?

Why do all Legendary weapons have to be tied to open world Pve content? And exclusive to people that play Pve?

Svarty.8019:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Svarty.8019:

Lexander.4579:

Mikhael.2391:

Do a regular stomp like everyone else.

how about instead ill get 17k+ base hp like everyone else?

You can have 17k+ base hp like… er.. guardians and elementalists. Oh hang on…

… or you can have your high base hp and no stealth or everybody else can join you in spamming stuff and zero cooldowns… I’m all for an even playing field!

So like Druid and Engie with their Stealh High HP and High stealth?

Now you’re being picky!

The second stealth was supposed to be sustain but stealth works bahahahah

DH changes were healthy for the game and don’t break the class like Revenant ED issues…

Svarty.8019:

Lexander.4579:

Mikhael.2391:

Do a regular stomp like everyone else.

how about instead ill get 17k+ base hp like everyone else?

You can have 17k+ base hp like… er.. guardians and elementalists. Oh hang on…

… or you can have your high base hp and no stealth or everybody else can join you in spamming stuff and zero cooldowns… I’m all for an even playing field!

So like Druid and Engie with their Stealh High HP and High stealth?

For that build time any Cc especially Immob and Stuns on the back end of the flip from DB, start cast when Thief is at Apex. And don’t stand under the Thief whatever you do it ends badly, but Necros are almost hard countered by thieves so there is that run Condi cleanses as well

Burtnik.5218:

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can…. run different Legends………

Shadowstep.6049:

They don’t know definition of trade off – don’t bother.

The other legends are 100% non-viable. Getting stunned in mallyx is a guaranteed 100-0 if your opponent is playing a damaging amulet. Jalis, is 100% useless in pvp. Ventari also does not work.

They are not aware of it

I don’t understand why you guys are all up in arms over ED, it’s has always been the worst thing to have.

StickerHappy.8052:

Wargameur.6950:

Either they go into the nightmare of balancing all traits to make elite specs on par with core. Or they release more elite specs not bundled to extension packs…..

Or the other way around. Make core on par with elite specs.

No no more powercreep nerf the elites…

StickerHappy.8052:

Build Diversity is still a problem, and certain traitlines are still required.

Why is Anet still ignoring this?

Mesmer

Inspiration is required

Druid

Bm/Nm/Druid – Staff still required.

Elementalist

Earth and Water/ Tempest Still required.

Scrapper

Alchemy required.

Necromancer

Blood Magic or Soul Reaping required. Soul reaping has been the longest offender since launch.

Warrior

Discipline Required. Always has been.

All I am saying is that, if you have 1 or 2 traitlines required in every build, there will forever be no build diversity. Anet needs to fix the useless ones while prioritizing which comes first so that every traitline/trait/weapon/utility will be competent enough.

Ex: I just have no idea why Anet still buffs ele dagger (which is a staple in every build like focus) while ignoring Warhorn which is utter trash.

You forgot Thief

Deadly Arts
Trickery
Daredevil

All required….

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

Run a legend without stunbreaks on a class with 0 access to reliable stability? That wise and smart. I really never thought about it before.

Run invocation two Stun breaks… have reliable Stability just have to time Dodges and actually evade..

Mikhael.2391:

Lexander.4579:

Mikhael.2391:

Lexander.4579:

Mikhael.2391:

Do a regular stomp like everyone else.

how about instead ill get 17k+ base hp like everyone else?

If i get stealth like everyone else +1

play mesmer then, you get both plus spammable defensive cds and clones

Black Iris Flowers.3418:

The impact strike chain doesn’t do the finisher right? It’s a skill, you need the finisher as far as I am aware

it performs the finisher animation and it consumes my limited finisher charges

Then why dont you play mesmer?

Too many Butterflies

JemL.3501:

No warrior in the whole universe use shield, that is a fact, go and play pvp, wvw even in pve, no warrior use shield, stop trolling around

You will still have/use the same skills but different weapon in your hands that is all, weapon will be cosmetic cast and/or skin in your hands and that is all, but perhaps yes so many animations and modifications would need to be added

And i think people want to troll…warriors using shield….i bet if i ask a screenshot from your warrior you will have a GS as main weapon or hammer and a rifle or longbow just in case range…ill lleave it there as suggestion

bye

Obtena.7952:

What’s the problem you’re trying to fix?

Personally, I don’t think it makes any sense to choose a weapon independent of weapons skills. I mean, this does have practical implications for competitive parts of the game to … I see a guy with a sword standing at range … and he’s pummeling me with ranged attacks … WTH?

Mesmers use a GS and are in range…bye

Nikal.4921:

I think the OP is saying, you pick a set of skills, you pick the whole bar, not individual skills, and pick the weapon you want to use that set of skills with. So, eg, Greatsword could use Longbow set of skills, or Hammer set of skills, etc. It’s just cosmetic, though there would have to be lots of new animations added I would think.

Yes, and yeah maybe a lot new animations for fix and make sense would need to be added

Meta War build uses shield Troll found move along

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

If i olny could swap healing skills on revenant or utilities to get stunbreak/condi cleanse.. oh wait.

You can…. run different Legends………

Clownmug.8357:

Revenant does have two healing skills, one dependent on hitting your opponent and the other one dependent on being hit by an opponent. A brilliant design that lets the opponent determine whether you can heal or not. That’s why Skelk Venom and Defiant Stance are so widely used right?

What if I told you those weren’t the only two healing skills, just the ones people choose because Meta…..

JemL.3501:

Ayrilana.1396:

Shield is actually used by players for some builds.

The point that they were making would be that players would pick the individual skills that they want. It would create balance issues.

No, nobody use shield as warrior if there is a build good but nobody does

And that point i didn clarify, i had to edit first post, you select the bar, then the weapon for the cosmetic skin and cosmetic cast, you will still need the two hand weapon for two hand skills, or off weapon for off hand skills

will be new, not a wow clone or lineage2 clone or blade and soul clone or black desert clone or archeage clone (yes there is more games other than wow)

Bahaha Warriors don’t use shield, Condi War begs to differ in pvp…

You mean be A WoW clone?

Best one is Raven Tonic in WvW

Rednik.3809:

Absurdo.8309:

How many players do you think pvp or wvw?

Feel free to go at gw2eff and see by yourself.
At least 50% of players have 200+ pvp games. At least 40% of players have 100+ wvw rank.

That is only based on those who even register and use gw2efficiency the majority of the player base don’t use or know about that website

Gotejjeken.1267:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Little bit of everything for all other Legendaries? All other Legendaries 99.99% Pve and .01% WvW…… you don’t have to pvp to get Legendary weapons and used to not even WvW before the GoB change…

You were right up until reward tracks became a thing. Outside of map exploration I don’t have to pve at all to get the original set.

New set more pve gated, that’ll probably change when next expansion comes out.

Even so, making legendary armor raid exclusive is just like making legendary armor WvW exclusive.

The only prestige items that are sensible to be this way are money pvp items. Because that takes skill not everyone has. Just don’t call them legendary.

How was I wrong I said up until the GoB change you didn’t have to WvW since WvW map completion was removed vey shortly after launch. Before the GoB reward track you could get all legendary weapons by doing 100% PvE, now it takes 4.5-8 hrs max of WvW to get a GoB.

Little bit of everything for all other Legendaries? All other Legendaries 99.99% Pve and .01% WvW…… you don’t have to pvp to get Legendary weapons and used to not even WvW before the GoB change…

Sneaky Turban.6823:

Although I agree the new pvp change to downstate is wonderful I just think it would bring more negatives than positives in pvp. When both sides have 5+ people downstate would be utterly useless and people may rally or be rezzed around 1% of the time. As for whether you like the concept of downstate as a whole, it is a part of the game , and I think just like condi we have to learn to play with it in the game.

In my opinion, downstate simply raises the skill floor of wvw. Sure it may be annoying when druids/engis/thieves are built as rezbots and just constantly ruin your fighting progress, but it forces you to adapt and bring reveals or launch the downed into a port stomp instead of just mindlessly cleaving. This mostly benefits organised groups which is the way it should be.

As for the non opinionated problems, finishing will be non existent in wvw which will hurt the servers with borderlands bloodlust as they won’t get as many points for stomping as they previously did. Servers that have good K/D ratios will suffer and servers that ktrain bl’s and have mindless map blobs will rise.

Also, skills and traits that are focused on downstate will become useless as well, which is a surprisingly large amount of the game. Of course I’m not talking about extra downstate damage but more so Warrior banners and every other classes rez utility for that matter, 10% reviving allies traits etc. Not to mention the rezbots i mentioned earlier would have their builds wiped out completely and lastly the third skill of downstate, well good luck trying to use it.

However, there could possibly be some ways to fix downstate while removing invulnerability. For example, perhaps doubling or even tripling downstate health while simultaneously doubling/tripling revive speed could give downstate players long enough to be rezzed in a zergfight if their team is organised while still making it that slight bit easier to cleave than before. Except this would be and issue for a solo roamer trying to 1v2, and doesn’t have enough stab to stomp and many other cases that it may cause more harm than good still.

In PvP removing downstate invulnerability is simple but in WvW there is just so many more variables to consider.

Rez speed does not need any increases, that small window of invuln allowed classes such as Druid and Engie to instantly Rez people almost before it ended.

Invictorum.7643:

Fay.2357:

So meditrapper guardian and D/D thief are probably two of the most 1-trick pony burst builds in the game. Naturally, you’ll have huge problems against anything that doesn’t die in the first 5 seconds of the fight. My general advice is that you shouldn’t play 1-trick ponies and be surprised when you get wrecked by a defensive sustain build.

On the thief, your best bet is to just pull a full disengage and try again if your burst doesn’t work. Once the Mesmer knows you’re there, they can destroy their illusions and rotate defensive cooldowns/interrupts to prevent you from regaining stealth with CnD. You have basically zero defense, so there’s no way for you to survive or sustain through that.

On the guard you’re basically in the same boat but without the capability to pull a full disengage. Guard does actually have some interesting mechanics that hurt Mesmer defense, but if you don’t have condie cleanse that won’t matter. Without condie cleanse, you either kill the Mesmer in the first 5 seconds or you lose.

If you have condie cleanse it’s a bit more interesting. F1 spear, deflecting shot traited to knockback, and test of faith traited to daze are all unblockable cc. This means you can hold onto those 3 skills and use them when the Mesmer tries to block for defense. Doing that will let you break through the defense and get solid dps windows.

As for your warrior, just modify your builds to have high uptime on resistance and you’ll be fine. If the other builds you run are any indicator, those warrior builds are also probably pure burst 1-trick ponies, and that’s just not going to cut it.

I guess this whole thing could be summed up as: don’t play 1-trick ponies and expect to kill people aware of you being a 1-trick pony.

The reason I run D/D isnt to be a one trick pony. Its to try to play as thief used to be, relying on stealth to get things done

Sadly, almost everything about thief stealth has been nerfed.

Also, the warrior builds I run are generally the Greataxe build from metabattle, GS/Hammer build, or S/Sh+GS power.

If you want to use Thief with Stealth you want D/P with the amount of blocks and other defensive skills/passives going around CnD doesn’t cut it anymore, you will want to run Trickery and pick up Trickster with Withdraw as your heal so it provides an extra Condi clear and synergizes well with EA, and run SoA which is yet another that symergizes well with EA.

SA does work really well in WvW if you run Tr/SA/DD it has some potential you lose on on some burst but make up for more survivability and maneuverability.

War the best bet is to run the build that maximizes resistance uptime they have the easiest time against Mesmers.

Ithilwen.1529:

Thieves got a huge upswing. No doubt they will be the DH of season 5.

Why doesn’t ANET strive for balance instead of making a new class super strong every round? That’s weird and ineffective.

Huge upswing? Bahahaha they slightly buffed the most underused utility skill and most underused weapon skill that more than likely will not see use in sPvP outside of niche builds. And the big thing why Thieves will not be the s5 equivalent of DH is they still have no point holding capabilities, no ridiculous amount of on point Aoe pressure, no impactful group support, and the big kicker DHs will still be abundantly used since they only received slight shaves.

EriskRedLemur.7153:

You know curbed means to be kept in check or show restraint/held back; so you’re saying ele meta is what exactly with the fix/buff? Because eles got buffed if anything, and were missing on the meta milk carton before. Not sure if you’re trolling or being sarcastic, guessing both.

Well there was a big bug fix that was fixed when Eles stacked, 56k-80k+ burn ticks if this wasn’t fixed it would have been broken in all game modes.

The one to Rule.2593:

u really complaining about a broken 80k burn skill?

No, just letting people know that don’t read the patch notes, I don’t play Ele much…..

Malediktus.3740:

Cant take that much timing if I get finished with the thief elite several times per evening.

Oh it does if you try to do it to early you waste it if you don’t do it fast enough you will get CC’d and it’s wasted.

Malediktus.3740:

It is a terrible change, it makes rezzing even harder in this aoe spam madness.
Not to mention the thief elite skill which skips your downstate and some other skills are even more OP now.

It was the best fix since it stopped the silly insta rezzes from Druids and Engies, when you down someone and they are up before the invuln state is even finished was what was really ridiculous. And the Thief elite take timing and skill to instantly finish someone.

GoEP has been fixed………..

Cyn.4901:

Eval.2371:

@OP I get that your upset about Revenant changes, but attempting to direct your unfound rage at thief is not the right direction.

Thief is barely viable outside of d/p in any competitive context and just barely too. I don’t think the op understands the state thief is in, and is living in this idea of what thief was over a year ago.

Literally aside from condi d/d, cheesy traps changes and pistol main hand upgrades we’ve received nerfs continously. We only have one chance for stealth attacks. No survivability aside of spamming dodges and no capacity to support any other role other than +1. Anet has watered the class down to mobility and encouraged spam. If you take away either then thief has nothing.

Like anything that you think is OP or broken, pick it up. Chances are you’ll learn its not that broken pretty fast, or it is and you walk all over people. Win Win.

Theif is not the only class that people do this on, I’ve seen people do the exact same thing on ranger, guardian, mesmer, and elementalist. Your point that someone can do this on thief is moot.

@Burtnik.5218 This is the second thread I’ve read today that your just attacking other classes because yours got adjusted. Yesterday it was ranger and today its thief. Nothing productive will come of it.

I wish people (you included) could debate online without ad hominems.

The mobility and stealth is unmatched for thief.
I do not see how any class besides druid could successfully pull off running from 5 people traited to catch someone with blinks, pulls, reveals, and cc. The thief can literally stay in the same area after he just ran away and do it again in 30 seconds. Compare that to the most hardcore attempt to run and live from ele, you would be placed on severe cooldowns if you some how managed to survive 2 revs, druids, thieves, etc chasing you. I cannot picture how a guardian can out maneuver 5 people using its… mobility… could you please explain that?

I don’t see the fun in tapping a keep forever except to troll and ruin a game mechanic, so I won’t plan on making a build for keep tapping thief.

It just sounds like you don’t know how a class works and you have proven it so it sounds like a l2p issue.

Eval.2371:

@OP I get that your upset about Revenant changes, but attempting to direct your unfound rage at thief is not the right direction.

Thief is barely viable outside of d/p in any competitive context and just barely too. I don’t think the op understands the state thief is in, and is living in this idea of what thief was over a year ago.

Literally aside from condi d/d, cheesy traps changes and pistol main hand upgrades we’ve received nerfs continously. We only have one chance for stealth attacks. No survivability aside of spamming dodges and no capacity to support any other role other than +1. Anet has watered the class down to mobility and encouraged spam. If you take away either then thief has nothing.

Like anything that you think is OP or broken, pick it up. Chances are you’ll learn its not that broken pretty fast, or it is and you walk all over people. Win Win.

Cyn.4901:

Then there’s the game mechanic that thief entirely ruins, what’s the point of a waypoint on a t3 keep if a thief just has to poke guards to contest? It’s next to impossible to kill a keep tap thief since the distance they can cover while in stealth is insane, and open field means they have anywhere to go. You can have 5 people hunting the thief down and it still isn’t enough.

Theif is not the only class that people do this on, I’ve seen people do the exact same thing on ranger, guardian, mesmer, and elementalist. Your point that someone can do this on thief is moot.

@Burtnik.5218 This is the second thread I’ve read today that your just attacking other classes because yours got adjusted. Yesterday it was ranger and today its thief. Nothing productive will come of it.

By Burntiks claims he hasn’t played in months and doesn’t play any more so he has no reason to be upset he has moved on to other things

Cyn.4901:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You don’t even know basic Thief mechanics how can anyone take what you say seriously….. just saying

That’s not an argument sorry.

and @husky, I said I posted it in general discussion and it was moved here.

Actually it is, how can you say something needs a nerf if you don’t even know anything about the class besides how you feel, case in point “but here are my proposed nerfs: Short bow 5 reduced to 900” something that has been the case for well over 3-3.5 years. You can’t give any reliable input/feedback if you don’t even know how the skills that you are complaining about function!

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I am not arguing against myself, you are looking at the skills in a complete vacuum, as a Rev you have access to Two heals if needed no class besides Mesmer has that convenience. I’m was just stating between the two heals that are almost identical they now function the same, now is the chance that Anet looks at the values of the heals for Rev now that functionality is brought in line with identical skills.

and you are completely putting the Interrupt scenario in a vacuum thinking you have Shadowstep off of cd and so on, which is not always the case in a perfect scenario Thief can do a lot but nothing is never perfect unless you completely outskill your opponent and make no mistakes.

Correction: Rev has 2 heals, both of which now depend on the actions of the enemy to determine the heal amount. Thief has no such restriction, Withdraw and Hide in Shadows both remove condis as well, which are supposedly the bane of Thieves. Facet of Light is useless against condi builds (read: condi mes, condi warr, condi necro, and as much as i hate to say it, condi thief), because much of the condition damage will take place after FoL’s effect wears off. If you load up on condis to increase the FoL healing amount, those condis will likely persist after FoL is over. I know you think that 2 heals is a lot, and you’re making it ever more clear that you don’t play Rev.

As to your point about Shadowstep being off CD, I mean I could make the same remark about you assuming ED or FoL is off CD. I could also point out that your “Two heals” have a 10s barrier between them in the recharge on Legend swap, how could you assume my Legend swap is on CD?? If you’re not using your resources wisely that’s not a problem with your build, it’s a problem with you. Thief’s heal resources are now actually superior to power Rev’s, which is sad.

The reason it’s sad: Thief has every ability to reset any fight and buy themselves extra time for CDs, not even Rev has that ability. If your Shadowstep still has 15s on cooldown, don’t join the fight until it has 5s left, learn to be a little patient, use SB from a distance until you’re ready. You can always take Improvisation instead of Executioner if you want to use utilities more often.

You seem to think I have a problem playing which isn’t the case or what I have been talking about, I have just stated you can’t look at all scenarios being in a perfect vacuum, and Speaking in Theoreticals you can make any situation happen.

I only chimed in this thread from the objective view that they finally brought the skill inline with how similar skills work across the game, that’s all, it finally ifunctions how it should have since launch, if it was only viable because of a flaw in design that shows it needs improvement which would be great it is widely known Rev has a lot of glitches and needs a few improvements to functionality.

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

heals for less than the ED charges overall

Might want to check your math there m8, oh wait I already did it for you. The overall heal from SV is much higher than ED, and your comment about interrupting the heal is not relevant since if either skill is interrupted then you get 0 heals. Go back to the Thief forums.

Might want to check your reading comprehension m8, I said the charges themselves heal for more not the overall heal from the initial heal, also the cast time is huge .5 sec is a much larger window to be interrupted Than the ED cast time which is why the initial heal is larger you can discount one facet of the overall skills balance.

I did see that and… really? Thieves have the best disengage ability, the only time you should be getting interrupted is when you step on a DH trap, which is pretty avoidable in the first place. And since you can disengage with SB 5, Shadowstep, simply Dashing multiple times via Signet of Agility, I’m not really sure how a 1s activation time on your heal is a big issue for you. I main thief, when I need to heal I move behind an object . 1s is not a big deal unless you’re consuming all of your initiative and dodges early, in which case, L2P.

I don’t disagree that 1/2s and 1s aren’t hugely different, but you should NOT be letting your heal get interrupted as a thief, you have every trick in the book to avoid those rupts. Revs along with every other class don’t have the luxury of disappearing at a moment’s notice, and yet many widely-used heals like Consume Conditions have a longer activation time. If you want to downplay SV’s superiority vs. ED then this should not be your main line of complaint.

But regardless, the guaranteed healing from SV is 2.5x larger than ED. I’d take that any day without complaint.

If Skelk Venom is so good why is it not used in any gamemode? And again the skills activation time is still what balances the initial Heal amount if you can’t grab that concept nothing can help you. it is not a guaranteed heal only in a perfect bubble like you are envisioning is it, especially with the amount of instant cast Ccs in game and Aoe CCs.

M8 you’re arguing against yourself at this point – Skelk Venom isn’t that great, and Enchanted Daggers is worse, telling me how a better version of ED isn’t great just proves what I’m saying. I strongly suggest hotkeying Shadowstep for when you need to heal or stomp, it’s a stunbreak and gets you 1200 away. Either that or avoid all of these node fights where you find all this AoE CC and Instacast CC. You’re most useful to +1 a 1v1 or 2v2 situation, and in that situation the CC is predictable.

Thieves get multiple choices for heals including one that fully refills their super-sized endurance, and revs get one choice per legend. Revs have very little flexibility, Ventari offers great healing but is a laughable choice for PvP. Shiro is a great legend but his heal is now practically useless as a heal.

I agree that there’s too much CC in sPvP right now, but that is avoidable for a good thief. You should watch Sindrener, the reason Scholar Rune is his/the meta’s rune of choice is because you are expected to spend most of your time above 90% health. If you can’t handle that expectation, there are 8 other professions waiting for you.

I am not arguing against myself, you are looking at the skills in a complete vacuum, as a Rev you have access to Two heals if needed no class besides Mesmer has that convenience. I’m was just stating between the two heals that are almost identical they now function the same, now is the chance that Anet looks at the values of the heals for Rev now that functionality is brought in line with identical skills.

and you are completely putting the Interrupt scenario in a vacuum thinking you have Shadowstep off of cd and so on, which is not always the case in a perfect scenario Thief can do a lot but nothing is never perfect unless you completely outskill your opponent and make no mistakes.

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

heals for less than the ED charges overall

Might want to check your math there m8, oh wait I already did it for you. The overall heal from SV is much higher than ED, and your comment about interrupting the heal is not relevant since if either skill is interrupted then you get 0 heals. Go back to the Thief forums.

Might want to check your reading comprehension m8, I said the charges themselves heal for more not the overall heal from the initial heal, also the cast time is huge .5 sec is a much larger window to be interrupted Than the ED cast time which is why the initial heal is larger you can discount one facet of the overall skills balance.

I did see that and… really? Thieves have the best disengage ability, the only time you should be getting interrupted is when you step on a DH trap, which is pretty avoidable in the first place. And since you can disengage with SB 5, Shadowstep, simply Dashing multiple times via Signet of Agility, I’m not really sure how a 1s activation time on your heal is a big issue for you. I main thief, when I need to heal I move behind an object . 1s is not a big deal unless you’re consuming all of your initiative and dodges early, in which case, L2P.

I don’t disagree that 1/2s and 1s aren’t hugely different, but you should NOT be letting your heal get interrupted as a thief, you have every trick in the book to avoid those rupts. Revs along with every other class don’t have the luxury of disappearing at a moment’s notice, and yet many widely-used heals like Consume Conditions have a longer activation time. If you want to downplay SV’s superiority vs. ED then this should not be your main line of complaint.

But regardless, the guaranteed healing from SV is 2.5x larger than ED. I’d take that any day without complaint.

If Skelk Venom is so good why is it not used in any gamemode? And again the skills activation time is still what balances the initial Heal amount if you can’t grab that concept nothing can help you. it is not a guaranteed heal only in a perfect bubble like you are envisioning is it, especially with the amount of instant cast Ccs in game and Aoe CCs.

Cyn.4901:

I made this post in general discussion and it was moved here. If I had a choice I’d rather have it in wvw because that is where I believe the mobility is more problematic. And if you want a more reasonable position: apply the nerfs to wvw only. Comments made about pvp were more about stating how thief was viable due to it’s mobility, but now it wins half of the matchups in 1 v 1, and still has insane mobility. If it’s mobility function was left unchanged, all the damage changes were an over buff imo, and players I know that main thief who agree.

Simply stated: thief is used to troll in wvw due to it’s mobility. There’s no doubt that you can get away with trolling a 40 man zerg. Simply stealth, shadow step in, troll, shadow step out, remove immobilizing condis with evade, then blink away. Repeat.

Then there’s the game mechanic that thief entirely ruins, what’s the point of a waypoint on a t3 keep if a thief just has to poke guards to contest? It’s next to impossible to kill a keep tap thief since the distance they can cover while in stealth is insane, and open field means they have anywhere to go. You can have 5 people hunting the thief down and it still isn’t enough.

There are plenty of ways thief can be nerfed in terms of mobility, but my proposal is the most direct and doesn’t screw up other aspects of thief.

You don’t even know basic Thief mechanics how can anyone take what you say seriously….. just saying

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

heals for less than the ED charges overall

Might want to check your math there m8, oh wait I already did it for you. The overall heal from SV is much higher than ED, and your comment about interrupting the heal is not relevant since if either skill is interrupted then you get 0 heals. Go back to the Thief forums.

Might want to check your reading comprehension m8, I said the charges themselves heal for more not the overall heal from the initial heal, also the cast time is huge .5 sec is a much larger window to be interrupted Than the ED cast time which is why the initial heal is larger you can discount one facet of the overall skills balance.

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Chungo.3169:

Let’s see, like saying that you can compare shiro 1.5k healing that ensures 100% 15sec, with 4k based venom that lasts 26sec.

Revs plz leave the game the ppl don’t want us in game

Says the higher Damage and heal per proc, has an additional charge. yeah nice try also your is 1/2 sec cast time vs a full second cast as Skelk venom and it’s not your only Heal.

Because your initial heal is 2.5x that of ED? Duh. You don’t have to land hits to get a significant heal, AND your venom can be shared to help your teammates. ED is now barely useful for a heal, SV is still very viable.

Skelk Venom has 2x cast time of ED which mean it’s more prone to interupt than ED has 1 Less charge, does not provide additional damage and heals for less than the ED charges overall, the share radius is pathetically small and the skill is not used in any gamemode on any build because it is the second worst heal Thief has, but sure it’s so “powerful” and “viable”! And it’s not like it’s the only heal you have access to, since all Revs have two heals no matter what.

Tumult.2578:

By the time I run out of earned badges of honor, I will have converted all my precursors to legendarys. The method I described was for all the players who did not spend their badges of honor because the vendor was removed before it was announced that it would be removed.
These players don’t have to be forced to play WvW again, to get what they already earned.

No it was never removed before they said they would remove it people just never read the patch notes and had over a 3 month warning that the vendor would be removed, and Anet never gave a definitive date on removal so there is that, more than enough warning to get alll the GoBs they would need.

Tumult.2578:

Didn’t say I want it without playing WvW. I said I will get it without playing WvW because I played it enough in the past. It’s not my game to design.

You can’t get it without playing WvW though no more vendor so good luck there

Tumult.2578:

Like that makes sense. I didn’t ask for anything. Take another look.

You did indirectly saying you want to be able to get the GoB without playing the gamemode that awards it by buying it with BoH. Like how it was before they made it a reward track, any new GoB you need to actually put an effort in WvW to obtain it.

Tumult.2578:

How can so many players be wrong? I played enough WvW in the past to know I will not do it again. Yes, I will still get the GOB and only have to suffer the few seconds it takes to spend badges of honor on a daily. That coupled with the Ley-line matter converter’s ability to purchase an occasional box of WvW supplies, will get me to the GOB in a number of months.

I’d rather spend years this way, than ever actually play WvW.

The sad thing is I now see that the game is being designed to push me away and now I usually just do log in and dailys, less and less often, and I certainly don’t spend money of gold anymore.

Offering ways to lessen the pain by reducing the time spent in WvW or trying to justify this nonsense because of map completion is a true waste of everyone’s time. Say it like it is. Right or wrong, fair or unfair, WvW players want more inexperienced players to kill.

If you only look at the amount of time they expect it to take to make a Legendary, and already have plenty of unspendable badges of honor, start the method I described above. You can get the GOB before you get the other required components. It’s just far less pain and boredom.

Say it like it is you just want the game to fully cater to you and not care that others have to spend even more time doing stuff they don’t like to get the same item.

Chungo.3169:

Let’s see, like saying that you can compare shiro 1.5k healing that ensures 100% 15sec, with 4k based venom that lasts 26sec.

Revs plz leave the game the ppl don’t want us in game

Says the higher Damage and heal per proc, has an additional charge. yeah nice try also your is 1/2 sec cast time vs a full second cast as Skelk venom and it’s not your only Heal.

nagr.1593:

You have reward tracks in wvw that give clovers and repeat it like 10 times and u have all up need.. Whereas pve doesn’t have that option even. So give us a reward track in pve that after all pve masteries are complete we can farm them for gift of battle or something. Since its not fair u can get pve stuff just by playing wvw, we should be able to get wvw stuff by playing pve.

What abt new legendaries.. and if they make any others it will be like this. They change it so u don’t need world completion u need on 4 easy maps or so that if u get on a hp train it’s very easy to get map completion on. Besides this is new content not old one, don’t buy hot if u hate exploring the new maps. Whereas look gift of battle is always the same. We have to farm wvw for it even on new legendaries nothing change, but they make pve easier than ever and wvw stays the same, same boring thing.

Mystic clovers aren’t equivalent to a Gift, you have Gift of Exploration WvW has Gift of Battle.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Azukas.1426:

JayAction.9056:

Azukas.1426:

I dont’ see any problems with the nerfs

I mean, you probably wouldn’t if you were not one of the people that could already beat rev consistently at legend level. You’re not exactly the target of the post nor the type of person i’d be referring to as an impossible match up for rev…

Legend means nothing.

The fix to the daggers puts in line with all the other skills that work like it. Look at thieves heal venom.

ROFLOL! Who in the world uses heal venom!?!?

But now it is consistent that Rev Heal works like all other skills that have charges, they get used on failed attacks.

Terissimo.6852:

“On My Mark!”: This skill now applies revealed for 4 seconds in addition to vulnerability.
Is this a joke? Why only 4s tho? Should be 6s like sick em. I didnt tested it but im sure we cant even dodge it and its insta cast so there is no counterplay to it, as usual.
I suggest to give reveal to dragonhunters as well in the next patch. Or just give it to everyone. Its definetly well designed, anet. You are keep destroying our class and Im not even surprised.

Dragonhunter already has a reveal had it since HoT launch…..

Lockheart.4312:

Don’t worry, thief can never be as bad off as necromancer.

Need I point you to Seasons 1 and Two of the pvp leagues?

Burtnik.5218:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Burtnik.5218:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Giving thieves a Cd on weapon skills defeats the whole class concept.

Like it defeats the whole class concept for rev who was supposed to have shorter cd’s on weapon skills than other classes due to energy cost on them? Or the utilities that were supposed to be cd free? And yet here we are. Thief deserves to get slapped short cd’s on their weapon skills. This is called equality.

At least you get full energy back on leneged swap, thives inative is for both weapons sets

Thief also has tons of ways to get initiative back unlike revenant who can olny swap legend and force him into different set of utilities which may not suit the X situation where he might want to stay in one legend for longer (for example camp Mallyx vs condi build). Moreover thief start with full initiative unlike revenant who start with 50% energy and even if you somehow get past 50% during one fight you cant carry it to another one cause for whatever reason it automatically reset back to 50% the moment you leave combat.

Tons? Yeah if you count the Pathetically underwhelming Traits in Quick Pockets in Tri, Acro and SA, and quick pockets, and the horrible Stun Break RfI? The only reliable one is Kleptomaniac which is only 1/5th of the Thieves initiaitive pool and almost all Initiative using skills have costs higher than that Initiative gain.

yes Rev has some issues but so do other classes, and I have no clue why your Energy bar resets once combat is exited it should degrade like all other similar resources.

Amaimon.7823:

darkaheart.4265:

Amaimon.7823:

The only thing I want fixed on thieves is the fact they can finish people in stealth. Its my bane as a warrior, since hamemr-throw requires targeting. If I play as a guardian, the interrupt is a pulse

what do you gain from that? they can still use black powder, blind you, and/or shadowstep you lol

if youre down is because they down you, fight is over. they either out play you or you made too many mistakes.

Its a specific thing because all other classes I can interupt their finisher until the cooldown is off my skill 3.

And my only mistake was thinking PvP was a fun place to be

Really? Stability stomps you can’t interrupt , invuln stomps you can’t interrupt, but yeah you can interrupt every other class…., and you can attempt to interrupt stealth using action camera you will just have to guess where they are.

It’s the best change they could make for sPvP now if they port it to WvW I would be happy.