Why don’t players who want a training mode push for a heavy modification of the Special Forces Training Area? It even has training in the name! It would have no negative impact on raids and you could choose the bosses, have various options such as activating or disabling mechanics so you can pay attention to one thing at a time to train. Regular raiders could just mix various mechanics from various bosses to make more challenging fights.
In b4, it has no rewards, it has no story……
Oh really where is your proof of this number? Anet has never stated such a number, enlighten us, and again not everyone is in Gw2efficiency so those numbers aren’t accurate.
So, 100k+ accounts is not good enough slice for you?
You said and I quote only 5% of the population, if the number you are deriving from is not equal to the number of active accounts and actual population then your numbers are wrong and can’t effectively be used in an argument. It’s very simple concept really, and there are people that raid consistently but have never used gw2efficiency.
This data also hasn’t been updated for quiet (hence no account crawling) a while and doesn’t reflect any new data on gw2efficiency so the data is even more inaccurate.
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That’s part of the issue, around half the folks will say ‘I actually don’t mind Easy Mode not having rewards’ while the other half claims the only purpose of said mode would be an alternative to getting the same rewards as normal.
I’ve gone through these motions dozens of times already. Imagine if raids did have a training mode that was worthless, explain to me how that content won’t get ignored after a few months of non-raiders going into it, and no one ever needing to use it again. Congrats, you have created another Dungeon in the game, except it doesn’t offer tokens or gold.
So then the argument shifts towards applying rewards, to what extent? You obviously need to keep the appeal of raiding up, and everything you do in this game has a cost associated with it. Make the rewards for Easy Mode too lucrative? No one would run the Normal mode, and you have actually nerfed raids. Easy mode not worth it enough? Non-raiders will do it once like before, but find their time more productive elsewhere…
But then they bring up the point about it being some sort of ‘right thing to do’ since that’s what everyone wants. How do they know? Do they have some sort of numbers the rest of us are unaware of? Or are they trying to take advantage of the conversation to push an agenda that no one who is actually raiding successfully wants?
There’s a lot of claims out there, a lot of biases. I know without a doubt some of the people complaining don’t actually care about raiding. I know they don’t, because the quality of their arguments or solutions isn’t considering the counterarguments or scenarios that would come from them. They just ignore it, or say ‘Well that’s what you think, but it won’t play out like that’. Oh because when you paint a “Raiding Picture”, that will totally happen but when we bring up something that could muddle that vision, suddenly we’re the ones that are wrong to think that?
…For a while now, I have been an advocate of applying some of the unique quality rewards from Raids, elsewhere. There should be a legendary quality armor outside of Raiding, and there is a fair point that this particular set is taking Arenanet quite a long time to dole out.
But I have to consistently ask what is it that makes my solution for Legendary Armor available elsewhere so unappealing to players who despise raiding so much that instead they want to take resources and time away from future Raid Development to fix an issue that they personally have with the content, that raiders right now are not having. When we can just as easily have Legendary Armor in content said raid-hating players DO enjoy.
Is that not a sound argument?
Nope because you miss the point. This isn’t about Legendary Armour or any other rewards. This is about players blocking other players from doing certain content. They also paid for the game so they should be allowed to do Raids if the want and no one should prevent them from it.
It’s like going to a restaurant where everyone pays the same. But some people sit at a luxury table and are served exquisite food. While others sit at a ruined table and are served leftovers while they paid the same amount of money for it.
And the reason for that is because they are new clients while those at the luxury table are regulars.
You also forgot to point out what is your problem. So I will do it for you:
Your problem is your bloated ego. Thats the reason you are so outraged about this. As long as only a few people can do raids you have a reason to brag that you can while others never get a chance to even join one. So once there is an inflation of raiders you will no longer have reasons to brag. Not that you could impress me. Even if you belonged to the only team of 10 players in the world that can do raids I would still not be impressed.
So yeah like you said: “One of the worst posts I have ever read – 2/10”
If you want to raid start a Raid group/guild and go raid nothing is stopping you at that point all the resources are out there for you to be successful
Exactly this won’t happen. It was proven in multiple games that most players won’t advance through the difficulties.
Currently we have less than 5% of players as constant raiders. Even if this number will rise to 10% that will be huge improvement.
Oh really where is your proof of this number? Anet has never stated such a number, enlighten us, and again not everyone is in Gw2efficiency so those numbers aren’t accurate.
The majority of actual raiding guilds don’t even touch the easier modes and the vast majority of players who do play the easier modes do not touch the higher difficulty modes. That’s very easy to check if you see the world first clears are on hard mode versions while the number of people who finish the easy modes are a lot more than the people who do the harder modes (no shock there).
I’m not really sure what your point is, but everything you said in there sounds really great. Let’s import that all to GW2, stat!
You want that model of Raids ok that means you are willing to take subpar gear since those raids off weaker tier rewards than that found in the hard modes so you would be rewarded with no access to legendary armor progression or Ascended drops…
I haven’t tested it out but does it strip per hit or per attack with Sneak Attack on Pistol
After reading countless QQ thief threads, this one takes the cake for me. After years and near constant nerfs, you want to take away one of the very FEW last things our class can do, because you have a hard time fighting them? LOL no.
You want to cripple Thieves ONLY real mechanic when EVERY CLASS BUT THIEF HAS A REVEAL, because you are angry that Thieves are using their ONLY ability to get close to you without you seeing. Please just learn to play. When a thief Stealth stacks, he loses the ability to use other abilities for a few seconds. That alone is enough.
If I were a dev I’d not only close this thread, but ban you from kitten posting on the Thief board.
Bahaha apparently you don’t know how to read i main a Thief I know how to fight thieves thieves are very easy to kill……. bahahahha
warrior’s run away build while annoying is ok because they have to build for it
now thief on the other hand are definetly broken, not only can stealth indefinetly but can also teleport/shadowstep without cooldowns as well as gaining superspeed while stealthed
Have to build for those as well, Superspeed is only from a rune, if they are spamming SB5 they have no Initiative to attack, if they are spamming shadowsteps they aren’t stealthing, if they are stealthing indefinitely they arent doing any real damage and not shadowstepping. Hard counters exist to stealth 6 out of 9 classes have them.
This sounds like speculation and goes against what has been officially put out. And the Blighting Trees are the equivalent of the pale tree but have been infused with Death Magic that was not present before since Zhaitan was still alive and Mordremoth did not have access to it. With the Pale tree being removed from Mordremoth’s influence in his weakened state could explain why they were not immediately subservient to him.
Make WvW into Eotm style so population is no longer a problem , have the borderland maps and possibly EBG with guilds/alliances competing in a Tier/League style with actual decent rewards for winning their matchups……
Making easy mode content based on existing raids is changing existing content
Nope. Easy mode would be separate.The existing content would not change even the tiniest bit.
it is making them easier which is what raids were never supposed to be.
Well, easy mode would obviously have different design goals than raids (because otherwise there’d be no point to them)
Again you were never the target audience for Raids you just want them to cater to you because of a shiny, I bet if Raids didn’t have the allure of legendary armor you would have no issue with them being as difficult as they currently are.
It’s more complicated than that. While i would like the current exclusives to be available also through different avenues, and while originally it would have solved 90% of the problems i had with raids, that has changed since that.
At this very point of time, the main problem is that Raids are the group content to run. Everyone that can run them, will want to (anet took care of that very well indeed). Which poses a problem to all people that used to group with those people that are raiding now. My guild, for example, ended up dead because of this. Those that can raid, do so, but usually don’t have time to do anything else besides that. Those that couldn’t cut it, for one reason or another (of which there are many) kept logging in only to see that everyone else is either raiding, or not there. Eventually they stopped logging in at all. Which i can hardly blame them for.
No, i don’t believe that easy mode will bring them back. I do believe, that, if it existed, it might have stopped the situation from happening, and if implemented, may help any future players. It might stop the rift growing between raiding and casual parts of the community from becoming even bigger than it is now.
And it is already pretty wide.TL/DR; The main problem with raids is that they are designed to divide the community. Easy mode might be a bridge over that gap.
Yes, i do know that many raiders are pretty happy with the division existing, and some would even want it to be bigger. I find that to be part of the problem.
The core raiding community has been doing their best to make raiding easier for everyone new players included, especially Guilds like qT and DnT who publish very in depth guides that show the current best strategies, as well abs giving in depth class comparisons effectively saving all other players a lot of time, gold and headache from theorycrafting and making strategies if they do not want too.
A lot of raiding guilds will take new players and run training raids to get them kills and experience on all wings. The actual raiding community strives to include as many people as possible without ruining the integrity of Raids and their concept of being challenging content, it falls on the individual player to accept the help/input/teamwork/effort.
There is a big difference The people that asked for raids wasn’t trying to change any existing content into something that suited them, they asked for new instanced content that wouldn’t affect anyone that did not want to do them, you are wanting to take something and turn it into something that it wasn’t intended to be for people that it was never intended for, didn’t want it or do not care for it.
I am not asking to change existing raids at all. What i want is a separate content, the easy mode raids, that is just based on already existing ones. Normal mode raids can stay as they are. This is exactly what was happening then.
And it was only asked for because whenever we were given content that was said to be for everyone yet stated to provide challenge people complained and got them nerfed i.e. Dungeons and Fractals, Raids were not advertised or designed for Everyone so it shouldn’t be changed to cater to everyone.
As i said, i wouldn’t mind current Raids getting nerfed too. I am asking for easy mode specifically to avoid that, though.
Making easy mode content based on existing raids is changing existing content, it is making them easier which is what raids were never supposed to be. Again you were never the target audience for Raids you just want them to cater to you because of a shiny, I bet if Raids didn’t have the allure of legendary armor you would have no issue with them being as difficult as they currently are.
If conditions are that strong why is the majority of the builds non-condition?
Because only so many classes have good condis/viable builds. When you only have 3-4 out of 9 classes that have viable Condi builds is why you see only a few builds overall, some classes are just not designed to be good with Condis
Please rename title to broken “run away”-warriors, “cowardly runaway”-thieves/mesmers, "annoying bunker- guardians and “shroud-survivalist”-necromancers
You forgot bunker run away druids
Of course it could be, as I said earlier. But it is not the goal of the content. I’m not sure why you aren’t willing to accept that.
But it could be.
Or you could accept that it ANet didn’t design Raids the way you might have.
The raids are there because people asking for them didn’t accept that Anet had no intention of doing them. If raiders could lobby at changing the direction of the game, i don’t see a reason why i can’t do that as well.
Can you not imagine that’s exactly how experienced Raiders see your posts? From their viewpoint, it took them less than six months to learn how to do raids and if they can do it, then why can’t you?
Well, then people not being able to do dungeons was mostly the case of them still getting used to the game, being undergeared and underleveled. When Raids started, situation was significantly different.
Still, dungeons were nerfed after that 6 months. Partly because of people that couldn’t run them. I see absolutely no problem with the same happening to Raids.
There is a big difference The people that asked for raids wasn’t trying to change any existing content into something that suited them, they asked for new instanced content that wouldn’t affect anyone that did not want to do them, you are wanting to take something and turn it into something that it wasn’t intended to be for people that it was never intended for, didn’t want it or do not care for it.
And it was only asked for because whenever we were given content that was said to be for everyone yet stated to provide challenge people complained and got them nerfed i.e. Dungeons and Fractals, Raids were not advertised or designed for Everyone so it shouldn’t be changed to cater to everyone.
Read the line on the Thief cache wiki it specifies Magus Falls map which are the original Heart of Maguuma maps, but I know Magus Falls was renamed heart of maguuma so idk if that has something to do with it, I didn’t realize they considered the Bloodstone Fen heart of maguuma or it could be a bug.
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I don’t accept your assumptions in getting to the “50%” figure, but I can agree that ANet’s devoted more design resources to raids relative to the raid dev team’s size or the number of people who play it.
You are free to disprove my calculations with your own, but until then I’m going to stick with mine. I’d also argue on your SAB argument, since no exlusive comes to my mind other than a backpack and different colored weapons , since 2 out of 4 weapon sets can be bought on the TP, therefore they are not exclusive at all.
Regarding PvP , WvW and fractals, here is the list of the exlusives in there which took Arenanet 4 years to impement all in all:
-Fractal Weapons
-Fractal back + Legendary Fractal back
-Glorious Armor
-The Ascension + Balthazar Back
-Triumphant Armor
-Legacy Armor
- Mistforged WeaponsNow let’s take a look at what raids got in the lifespan of 1 Year:
- Experimental Envoy Armor
- White Mantle Weapon Set
- A dozen boss specific unique , including weapons and back pieces.1 year of raids versus 4 year of 3 other game mode. You could calculate how much exlusives raids will have in the same lifespan currently the other 3 game modes have if you want, then say 50% is not realistic.
And non Raid Pve in 1 year got.
Guild Armor 3 sets
Mistward Armor
Bladed Armor.
Ley line armor
Shimmering Weapons
Tennerberous Weapons
Chak Weapons
Auric Weapons
Reclaimed Weapons
Machined Weapons
Plated Weapons
9 class specific Armor Pieces
18 class specific Weapon Skins
5 Legendary Weapons (plus Precursor Skins)
Legendary Backpiece
Auric Backpiece
Luminates Backpiece
3 story backpieces
21 Unique Weapon Skins
There is probably more just the main ones off the top of my head
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No, only the Heart of Maguuma maps which are Verdant Brink, Auric Basin, Tangled Depths and Dragon’s Stand iirc
I am not a PvE player. You can already buy trinkets in wvw with badges as well btw. I also disagree on your opinion about PvP or dungeons not “needing” that rewards. Of course if you implement something for one gamemode, then you have to give similar ways for other gamemodes.
I know that Raids allow you to “buy” ascended armor, but imho this content and high level fractals really aren’t comparable to WvW in difficulty to get the currency you need to exchange against ascended items. So if the same thing were to be implemented in WvW you have to account for the difficulty by making it something that is really hard to reach or create new hard to get currencies.
Originally you said that you couldn’t purchase Ascended in Pve which I pointed out is false since two different Pve content modes offer the armor/weapons for purchase.
Pvp doesn’t use stats from gear so not needed, dungeons are so easy that Ascended gear is not need neither are exotics for that matter. You can buy Ascended armor weapons and Trinkets for pretty cheap since it’s very easy to get the Magnetite shards, Raids are not all that hard especially if you have a static group and raid weekly, he’ll you get the currency for wiping, for trading in minis that drop for salvaging any Ascended items dropped from Raids, oh yeah the random Ascended drop rates in raids are better than WvW, Fractals the currencies used is very easy to come across and only takes you doing the dailies and having some gold.
So having badges of honor, Proofs of Heroics and gold to buy Ascended pieces the prices wouldn’t be too far off from what other game modes offer for purchasing.
Yeah only Raids currently but you can run Sinister from Arah achievo iirc
The longer content is out they get easier mostly due to people learning the encounters
Yes they are viable, they are just less faceroll and lost less build diversity.
heres a vid of me going through the gear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klrXf8kgxwU so u can see infusions too
Thanks, I always like comparing builds to way the benefits, and when you upload videos without effects it makes it easier to see what is going on in your videos, they help me compare to my own gameplay.
Very good video, question, some of the fights especially the outnumbered ones showed a few things I can attempt improve on to better my chances in similar situations.
What is the gear setup in these videos? Marauder and Zerker with Scholar or something tackier using scrapper runes?
any thoughts on the thief and DH in the video above? were they good? could the DH have done better? or did the thief show he can hold his own against good DHs?
Needs more Unload Spam…..
Drops aren’t the only way to get ascended armor and weapons for players in WvW. There is a thing called crafting and a market, where you are able to buy everything you would need for making your armor and weapons. It isn’t difficult, it just isn’t cheap (around 70 gold per ascended), so you have to play a while and sell stuff to get it. With the reward tracks it is no problem to save up that kind of money.
You guys have to keep in mind that the crafting has to make sense as well. If you can get everything somewhere else than with crafting it yourself, then why would anyone level their crafting to 500 at all?
Furthermore if such a thing is implemented for wvw, then it has to be implemented for other gamemodes as well. Fractals, pvp, dungeons…I could live with reducing the “rng” and including boxes or at least materials you might need for ascended armors and weapons to be traded for heroics (they cannot use badges, as there are people with 50’000+ of those because of EotM-farming). But then they should be as hard to get or harder to get as the drops are today while at the same time reducing the random drop rate. So I think it would have to be at least 1500-2000 proofs of heroic per ascended piece to be balanced with the worth of heroics compared to crafting it. If I was you, I would just save up the money and craft it.
Looks like someone is way behind the times. Both Raids and Fractals allow players to buy Ascended Armor, weapons and Trinkets with currencies specifically from that content on top of the random drops…. pvp doesn’t have a reliance on Stats or Ascended items so that’s a moot point but it has one of the higher drop rates for more useable Ascended items since nothing is stuck to a specific item type only to stat type and dungeons are dead content and don’t require or have a need for Ascended items.
Please remove Gift of Battle from the WVW reward track. The PVE folks are not liking it their as they just don’t want to do WVW events or PVP. Please find a way so that it can be universal across all the boards. In this manner PVP, WVW and PVE can all achieve this award to create legendaries, etc.
If they give WvW players a way to get Gift of Exploration through WvW-only sure, why not?
^ this.
currently it only takes 4-8.5 max hrs to acquire the GoB which can be AFK’d through, while if a WvW player wants to make a Legendary they have to spend 16-20hrs minimum to acquire the GoE.
If I were to make a guess, i would assume Arc Divider also reaches through gates too.
Yep it does. Doesn’t have near the range (or damage) CoR does though.
I have been hit by a CoR for 15k and Arc divider for 17k yeah doesn’t have anywhere near the damage though…
I run both Rev and Warr… pure glass for each. I’ve never managed to get my arc dividers to crit anywhere near what my Rev’s CoR can do… and that doesn’t even factor in the Rev’s bonus 50% damage increase trait on block. SO yeah… I think you’re exaggerating like no tomorrow.
Nope was running pretty much full glass on a Thief wearing marauders armor and Zerker weapons and trinks which put my health at just over 17k with the food I had at the time, I was one shot. I had never seen the attack hit that hard before but yeah it can hit that hard.
Tomorrow I will try to find the screenshot of it and post it.
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Look up the video it was pretty funny to watch, notice the date then look at the patch date that added the Cd
If I were to make a guess, i would assume Arc Divider also reaches through gates too.
Yep it does. Doesn’t have near the range (or damage) CoR does though.
I have been hit by a CoR for 15k and Arc divider for 17k yeah doesn’t have anywhere near the damage though…
Funnily enough it happened right after Helseth playing on a Thief made sure Anet Devs stayed dead in a match, he had no other goal
Neither does yours, just saying. You simply want content that was never made or intended for you to waste Developer time to cater to you because of a shiny that is it simply stated. You are the voice of Ohoni only looking out for Ohoni.
As I have to find myself repeating over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over because for some reason you guys refuse to take it in, if it comes down to “this is only something Ohoni wants,” then I do not want them to do it. It would not be worth their time or energy to do something like this for any one player, and I would rather they spend their energy on something else.
But I don’t believe that’s true for a second.
And neither do you.
If any of you believed I was actually wrong, that this was something that players didn’t want, that the devs did not, on some level, know that, then you wouldn’t wast so much time and effort trying to shout me down.
But you know players want it, you know ANet does have an interest in making something along these lines happen, maybe not exactly what I’m asking for, but something, and you’re just doing the best you can to cover your eyes and hope it all goes away, because you want your special little “no newbs aloud” clubhouse.
Good luck with that.
In the meantime, I’m going to continue to try and workshop the best possible implementation of this sort of system, if they decide to do something.
It has been proven time and again that pugs can reliably clear Raids, that you don’t need to run the Meta to clear raids and that anyone can practice on clearing raids, and the core raiding community has provided the information for such on a silver platter time and again to make it easier for everyone to get into raiding easier and with less of a headache than they had.
And yet, no matter how many times you “prove” that all to your own satisfaction, there are still players who find the current experience less than they want it to be. And they are pushing for some alternative. One that so far you have not offered.
Nice trying to assume what I believe, what I believe is that you only want the Legenday armor and want Anet to lower it and couldn’t care less about anyone else. And yes people have provided proof time and again about how helpful and easy the raids really are, and how you don’t even need an optimized comp to beat them, you have yet to provide proof of any kind and all you have are your feelings and opinions.
I’m sorry are the people on these forums not players? I thought I was a player. You seem pretty convinced that you speak for the people, when all these other people are here speaking for themselves.
You are players, but you are not all of the players, and your voices do not represent the players.
Neither does yours, just saying. You simply want content that was never made or intended for you to waste Developer time to cater to you because of a shiny that is it simply stated. You are the voice of Ohoni only looking out for Ohoni.
It has been proven time and again that pugs can reliably clear Raids, that you don’t need to run the Meta to clear raids and that anyone can practice on clearing raids, and the core raiding community has provided the information for such on a silver platter time and again to make it easier for everyone to get into raiding easier and with less of a headache than they had.
It would force /P even further and make D/P even more mandatory.
By Physical it means anything not condition damage
The drop rates from the reward tracks seem decent to me. I haven’t done fractals for years so I wouldn’t know if it’s better there or not. I’ve gotten several ascended rings and ascended armor/weapon chests from random loot boxes in the dungeon tracks, the maguuma tracks and the triumphant armor track. The loot boxes from the new bloodstone fen and ember bay tracks haven’t given me anything decent, so maybe only a few tracks have boxes with good drop rates.
Not necessarily I WvW almost every night for a while and have never received a single Ascended drop, now in Pvp I have received over 6 in 3 days all Armor and weapons.
This is one of the worst ideas ever, all they need to do is implement a Tutorial new players have to complete that goes over Roles, Main Objectives, Optional Objectives, Rotations, and Map Awareness. These are things that at the basic level the UI/AI could do. Oh and the bigger things no more above average Mmr for new accounts, make an actual League/Ladder that means something and can’t be grinded out, that means no safety nets, and to fix the Matchmaker so no more class stacking.
But making a booster that is essentially a form of limited Pay to Win and Gives them a false sense of accomplishment and worth for when they no longer have the crutch.
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Nobody can take you seriously when you comment stuff like this, Rev has some of the worst stability access after Thief.
What?? Ele, necro have 0 stability in their meta build (and non-meta things are straight up dead, so don’t even mention traits that give you stability). 0. Not a single stack anywhere.
And unlike rev, these 2 classes have very little damage avoidance, they just eat it all up.Both necro and ele have stability. You should’ve said mesmer, which has 0 stab
Let’s see smart boy, where Ele or Necro has stability. Tell me where and I’ll tell you why you are wrong. (except Necro elite shout, with a 90s CD, that’s not reliable)
Ele – overload.
Necro – shroud.Necro #3 skill in deathshroud has been nerfed significantly and is on a 25s CD, which lasts 8s. That’s not even close of any sort of good survivability while under heavy pressure from a revenant or a thief, since this is your only stability skill and you have very few stun breaks (while rev has tons). You wait it out and then necro is ded.
Ele stability on overload is a joke. You need to drop one of the most important traits to you as an ele. Perma vigor, the only trait that can provide perma regen while on an auramancer build, the best source of condi cleanse, etc. The stability on overload doesn’t come even close to this trait, while you’re bunker-healing, Invigorating torrents is a no brainer. The only real stability provider is overload earth, but that’s not gonna help you you survive focus fire unless you’ve already been in earth for 1-2 seconds.
Tho ele unlike necro has more ways to survive focus fire, but they are on a long CD and when the enemy team knows what CC is, you melt like chocolate.
See, it does have stab, and stop trying to excuse your stupidity. You said it had 0 stab and it does have stab, and not a lack of it either.
Ok yea I was wrong with my original post, they do have stability, but it’s not very common and therefore reliable, except maybe once in a teamfight. What does it matter, if ele could have stability, but effectively never picks it?
As for necro, necro has tons of other problems with survivability, which is also thanks to the little amount of stability it has. On the other hand, rev has lots of stab when it traits for it.
Eles cast overload earth whenever needed/ off CD in team fights, idk what game you are playing but earth is their go to survivability Attunement.
The only two classes that don’t get a lot of Stability are Thief and Mesmer, everyone pretty much poops it out, Revs a little less now than normal but can do the same amount with timed Dodges.
I could see them doing this with Proofs over Badges
The shield is pretty much the iconic weapon of a guardian yet its been lackluster from launch.
Stalwart Defender should be buffed or changed to make the shield worth using outside of pure support builds. Putting a point in the talent could make your shield ablities deal AoE damage on use or something, anything really.
Just make it worth carrying around outside of that one time you feel like pushing people off cliffs.
It gives area Denial, Projectile block and Aoe heals it does have 1 Aoe damage on the skill 4….. it’s got a decent amount of utility it doesn’t need more damage
In Divinitys Reach there are 3 vendors you want the Tier 3 Vendor it will cost a lot of gold though, iirc it is 119g total
I am testing a Corruption/Devastation/Herald Toaming build using Sw/Sw with Mallyx and Glint, slowly piecing the gear together using Mara and Commanders
Sounds like it has 1 stunbreak. Not sure it will fare well.
I was gonna say this as well. The build will still struggle in a 3v3 scenario while having poor mobility. Retribution grandmasters are all pretty crap right now, but the stability nerf was needed and it wasn’t over the top, here’s why:
In the past, only a dodge roll could proc this trait, meaning that there were cases in which you were heavily focused and had to double dodge which meant less stability uptime. However now it’s on “evade” so skills like shiro stunbreak, sword 3, staff 5, hammer 3 can trigger it as well. That said, an ideal condi setup in my eyes would include sword axe + mace shield/sword, herald corruption retribution, glint mallyx. Axe will somewhat compensate for the lack of shiro. Now, invo devas zerker rev is still superior, but condi may shine in the future with the right buffs to mallyx and retribution GMs.
P.S: new vid #5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZvCnO4w9RE (:
Yeah it was a little rough, I am not that great with Rev to begin with still learning it but not having Stunbreaks was a small issue unless I was against a Warrior then it was the worst matchup possible, now I only swap to it when facing Condi builds.
So what we are talking about is a reduction in stealth capacity of D/P from that 12 seconds Jana mentioned to 9. Anyone using 9 seconds or less of stealth wouldn’t be affected. It brings D/P closer to the other sets and allows us to demand less broad nerfs to stealth in general (i.e. introducing new reveal abilities on other classes).
Why protest a change that only reduces the stealth potential of D/P slightly, which already has strong stealth potential—and which will remain strong after—as though it will make D/P unviable? It won’t, but I worry that without a change we will continue to face more and more unreasonably long reveal abilities being handed out like candy to other classes.
D/P has a lot more going for it than just pistol 5. Pistol 4 and Shadowshot alone make the set a potent and deadly weapon.
beucause if u dont run shadow arts u cant stay in perma stealth anyways. Stealth is just used to play unpredictable and for example blackbowder cost 6 Initiative heartseaker cost 3 the Initiative cost would be to high that why most thief dont stack stealth 4 times anyways. The thing it comes down to is that u have a problem with some guys thats playing a build that is not viabale in any gamemod and therefore wants a nerf thats will effect the only one that is.
Yep because I don’t main D/P… and I see the reason why Anet is too hesitant to actually give Thieves any real buffs. If stealth stacking isn’t needed in Pvp then this wouldn’t affect D/P in sPvP high tier play would it? Not in the slightest since from what you and bluri keep saying that Good thieves don’t stack stealth… you can still be unpredictable with this lil ICD. It just stops stealth camping/stacking stealth and nothing more.
If you want to see how fast D/P would drop from being Meta? Ask Anet to put Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike to how they were April 30 2013, and to get rid of the uncalled for Infiltrator Return cast time. and those would be two very small tweaks,
What other build will suffer if you don’t mind me asking?
DP that dont runs SA can not have perma stealth and we don stack 4 Times’ most of the time so reducing stealth will efect the meta for Theif in a big way due to initiative cost of heartseaker. And it dont even realy solve ur problem any how because part of why a trapper can stay in stealth is due to trapper runes not only stealth stacking.
Most trapper setups don’t use trapper runes…. since they only have 2 traps 1 trained and 1 slotted, you can perma stealth without them and still do damage.
Thief doesn’t only need nerfs in certain small ways. It also needs buffs in several other ways. The problem is that, because of the way weapon sets work, a buff helps the entire class—including the possibly already “just fine” builds.
Balance isn’t just about buffs and nerfs to your own class. Buffs and nerfs have to happen in concert with buffs and nerfs to other classes. Longer duration stealth abilities lead to longer duration “revealed” abilities. Revealed, like stealth, should be extremely short duration when applied by people. A slight adjustment to prevent permanent stealth is all that is being asked for. Those that don’t use perma stealth won’t be effected if a good solution is used.
And then, hopefully, we can start having a conversation about buffing thief without simply increasing auto-attack.
But perma stealth is not even part of the meta for Theif they guys that runs those builds does not contribute tho the team and by going out of the meta trying to play a diffrent role they doing it worse then other classes can do.. A condi trapper thief can not put out more condition then a necro,mesmer or warrior can. But no class beats Theif when it comes to mobility and unprediceble play when it comes to shortbow, dash and DP. But if u play staff a revenant can beat u to a point not to mention u can not decap from behind the enemy team because the will see u. My point is with the meta:
running deadly arts, trickery, and daredevil with short bow and dash there is no way to perma stealth and stealth is used to play unprediceble not to hide and take u on one on one other classes can do that better then a Theif could anyways even i they nerf stealth stack.
A Theif is not supposed tho fight fair plus one is the role for Theif what anet could do is to realy make plus one as a role needed even more then it is today.The whole game does not revolve around sPvP, what you are mentioning is just for sPvP. Also any class can +1 it’s not like Thieves have the monopoly on mobility anymore between skills like GoTL, and other classes mobility.
Well i guesd that u talked about pvp or wvw because whats the point about talking about stealth stack in pve.. Where i cant see it be a problem any how.
And then do tell me a class that can beat a Theif in mobilty? thats runs dash, shortbow, and shadow step. A warrior running Greatsword and sword has no chance, druid running Greatsword and staff has no chanse a revenant with shiro and staff has no chance and they are the the classes with best mobilty behind thief when it comes to covering a dictanse. And mobilty is not only to get as far and fast away as possible a DP thief can stealth for a short period of time and disengage in another direction thats why theif has the best mobilty and if a team plays around having a Theif in their team i have no doubt that the thief is the best plus one in the game meaning if they push the sides of the map Theif is the best plus one. And do u realy want evry class to have the same mechanics and be able to play the same roles?
If thief is so great when has it gotten far in any of the tournaments recently? If it’s decap and mobility is so impactful why do some of the pro league players say just ignore it as the best strategy? It’s kind of funny because it’s true.
right now the gap between Thief and others classes mobility is so small that oh you can out run them on an open map but on pvp maps not so much they are only 1 maybe 2 seconds behind you.
Already Anet has been giving more classes Thief like roles More access to stealth and higher mobility it’s true With Druid they got more stealth and mobility very low CDs with Superspeed, Scrappers got more stealth and so did Mesmers indirectly from Chronomancer.
So what does Thief have that’s special anymore? Nothing you are better filling that role with a more versatile class, in pvp
Thief doesn’t only need nerfs in certain small ways. It also needs buffs in several other ways. The problem is that, because of the way weapon sets work, a buff helps the entire class—including the possibly already “just fine” builds.
Balance isn’t just about buffs and nerfs to your own class. Buffs and nerfs have to happen in concert with buffs and nerfs to other classes. Longer duration stealth abilities lead to longer duration “revealed” abilities. Revealed, like stealth, should be extremely short duration when applied by people. A slight adjustment to prevent permanent stealth is all that is being asked for. Those that don’t use perma stealth won’t be effected if a good solution is used.
And then, hopefully, we can start having a conversation about buffing thief without simply increasing auto-attack.
But perma stealth is not even part of the meta for Theif they guys that runs those builds does not contribute tho the team and by going out of the meta trying to play a diffrent role they doing it worse then other classes can do.. A condi trapper thief can not put out more condition then a necro,mesmer or warrior can. But no class beats Theif when it comes to mobility and unprediceble play when it comes to shortbow, dash and DP. But if u play staff a revenant can beat u to a point not to mention u can not decap from behind the enemy team because the will see u. My point is with the meta:
running deadly arts, trickery, and daredevil with short bow and dash there is no way to perma stealth and stealth is used to play unprediceble not to hide and take u on one on one other classes can do that better then a Theif could anyways even i they nerf stealth stack.
A Theif is not supposed tho fight fair plus one is the role for Theif what anet could do is to realy make plus one as a role needed even more then it is today.The whole game does not revolve around sPvP, what you are mentioning is just for sPvP. Also any class can +1 it’s not like Thieves have the monopoly on mobility anymore between skills like GoTL, and other classes mobility.
And again if u want to talk about other game mods in what game mod is a trapper condi or permastealth thief the meta? i dont see the problem with stealth because those builds suffers in so many other ways compeard to other classes regardless of gamemods.
That’s sad all you care about is what is Meta lol. but see what’s killing Thief build diversity is Anet won’t buff Thief since “Stealth OP” cries from all the bads. And I was talking of WvW not Pve, let’s see in WvW people complain about Ghost Thief, day in day out yes if you know what you are doing it does make it easy to kill them or get away but sadly they do have a point you shouldn’t be able to be permanently stealthed and deal damage to players… if you can’t grasp how that is a bad design I can’t help you and probably no one can.
Thief doesn’t only need nerfs in certain small ways. It also needs buffs in several other ways. The problem is that, because of the way weapon sets work, a buff helps the entire class—including the possibly already “just fine” builds.
Balance isn’t just about buffs and nerfs to your own class. Buffs and nerfs have to happen in concert with buffs and nerfs to other classes. Longer duration stealth abilities lead to longer duration “revealed” abilities. Revealed, like stealth, should be extremely short duration when applied by people. A slight adjustment to prevent permanent stealth is all that is being asked for. Those that don’t use perma stealth won’t be effected if a good solution is used.
And then, hopefully, we can start having a conversation about buffing thief without simply increasing auto-attack.
But perma stealth is not even part of the meta for Theif they guys that runs those builds does not contribute tho the team and by going out of the meta trying to play a diffrent role they doing it worse then other classes can do.. A condi trapper thief can not put out more condition then a necro,mesmer or warrior can. But no class beats Theif when it comes to mobility and unprediceble play when it comes to shortbow, dash and DP. But if u play staff a revenant can beat u to a point not to mention u can not decap from behind the enemy team because the will see u. My point is with the meta:
running deadly arts, trickery, and daredevil with short bow and dash there is no way to perma stealth and stealth is used to play unprediceble not to hide and take u on one on one other classes can do that better then a Theif could anyways even i they nerf stealth stack.
A Theif is not supposed tho fight fair plus one is the role for Theif what anet could do is to realy make plus one as a role needed even more then it is today.
The whole game does not revolve around sPvP, what you are mentioning is just for sPvP. Also any class can +1 it’s not like Thieves have the monopoly on mobility anymore between skills like GoTL, and other classes mobility.
Sorry but nice try. Seeing how you can’t perma stealth with staff or perma evade with it either because punish frames are a thing
Good players running staff don’t vault but abuse the dodge > 3 combo along with proper use of 4.
How does that apply to what i you quoted me saying?
I’m not spelling it out for you. Figure it out on your own
Well seeing how i called the OP out on Perma Evade from Vault spam what you said doesn’t apply, clearly this is a good staff theif…. but go ahead and be salty