Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

This is a change I can totally get behind in concept, though I think they would need to revisit Blinding Powder, since the blash finisher + Black Powder is what’s really responsible for the potency behind its use.

Removing the ICD from stealth attacks and placing one on stealth acquisition would be a pretty major start to say the least. I’m not sure if 1s would really change anything for the most part, though. Given SA, you still end up with the same problem as currently, and it really doesn’t change much all things considered.

In all seriousness in order to fix the problem as a whole, it’d probably have to go to 1.5/2s with changes made to SR’s pulse rate/durations/field duration to account for this adjustment.

Frankly, I think the bigger fish to fry for more diversity on the thief come down to nerfs to Shadow Shot (you saw what happened when I equipped D/P last time we fought, and that wasn’t even activating the signets) and reworks to OH dagger (particularly when looking at D/D as a whole).

If you look at how D/P stack stealth even with SA you would be able to stack at most 5 Seconds off of one BP from 2 leaps.

Rising Dusk.2408:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

WvW is the only gamemode with no legendary item assigned to it.

…and that should be fixed by giving WvW a unique legendary associated with it once skirmishes get a proper reward system, not making PvE map completion available in WvW.

It should indeed, but right now I am open to any option, but I feel that at most it will be a back piece and still if a WvW player wants any of the Weapons they will have to spend an exorbitant amount of time in Pve to craft. Right now I am 67% done on one character that I created at launch, because I solely pvp’ed and WvW’Ed for almost my whole time playing yet for the longest time those two gamemodes had the worst rewards in game and still do for the most part.

I would love for New gamemode specific Legendary weapons/backpieces but let’s look at this realistically we were promised full new set of Legendaries weapons with Hot exclusively available to Pve , they made 3 then cancelled them Temporarily, a year later they release one Legendary Weapon again exclusively for Pve…. see where I am going with this? With their track record I don’t see them implementing anything anytime for WvW in the form of Legendaries or for Pvp outside of another backpiece.

Malediktus.3740:

This would defeat the purpose of map completion. Hero points are only buyable with proof of heroics so WvW players can stay competive with their builds.

This is about giving players access to items their preferred game mode doesn’t, Pve players complain (open world pvers mostly) about it all the time i.e. Fractal/pvp backpiece, Legendary Armor, Gift of battle and so on….. WvW is the only gamemode with no legendary item assigned to it.

Raptures Ruin.5673:

One thing I would add to my initial thought on this was the ability to check the inventories of my Alts without having to log in to each one.

Agree with everything above based on what I said though

It’s not ingame but there is Gw2efficiency.com for that it’s an amazing website

With all the changes that have come to the Thief class, and some very valid complaints, I think it is warranted to take a look at Stealth, currently one of the biggest things that is hindering the balancing of Thief is it’s ability to endlessly stack Stealth even after you implemented the 5 stack limit of stealth a couple years ago.

Right now one very good way to bring the Thief inline with its Stealth Application without completely making the mechanic useless is the implementation Game wide for a 1 Second ICD per application of Stealth, this will stop D/P builds from endlessly stacking Stealth (Ghost Thief/TrapperThief build) and loosen the monopoly that D/P has on all competitive game modes.

I was not the one to first suggest the 1 second ICD that honor belongs to babazhook.

What this small change will do is allow for you to be able to easily balance Thief since they won’t be able to Camp Stealth permanently. And stop a lot of the stealth abuse that happens in game.

SkullProX.7083:

Easy to say “dodge” but when there are 5-10 thrash mobs with attack animations which are all almost invisible and you get 1hit by all of them…. and then there is the toxic trail too… i get conditions applied to me like hell even when i perma dodge i die… once my dodges run out after vigor heal and signet im dead….

Seeing how almost no Trash mobs have any one shot mechanics, yes dodging and using Aoe evade from Vault or using Aoe range with SB 2 and 4 it is as simple as dodging. Also you can run CS and trait Invigorating Precision which greatly increases your sustain if feel like facetanking mobs.

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

Stealth should not stack at all. You get syealth for x time and thats it like regular games with stealth. Want more stealth? use the other abilitie that also gives stealth and wait for the mext cooldowns to get it back. This way no thief would ever get in and out of fights when they feel like it. If im a necro in wvw and a see a thief or warr or dh or any other class that has more mobility i either choose to fight or i choose to fight because theres no escaping as a necro. But also as many classes without stealth i wont be able to run in to a group of 2 to 4 or 5 and annoy them try to kill someone and then run away, sure you can say dh and warriors can do that but eventually cooldowns will kill them and cc. As thief with just a few stacking (not perma stealth) you can still do this due to best mobility in game and stealth and burst damage. What i would like to see is stealth being used as opening for surprise atack and another stealth to run away if things go south without getting back in and out as they please with 9 reliable dodges plus stealth plus cc.

Apparently you think that thieves have unlimited Initiative which they don’t you can’t stack stealth and have super high mobility, since both require a very huge amount of Initiative and subject to Weapon swap CDs. Thieves best mobility comes in the form of SB 5 a spammable 6 Initiative 900 range Shadowstep, guess what if he is doing that he isn’t stacking stealth, the main way Thieves abuse stealth Stacking is D/P with BP and HS which costs 8 Initiative total (so no spamming SB 5 for mobility going on) with multiple instances to interrupt them because precasts and after casts.

Also as stated before every other mmo has stealth that lasts indefinitely till canceled and does not have a 3-4 second base duration. Aso there is the revealed mechanic which locks Thieves out of stealth from anywhere from 3-30 seconds depending on how the thief is revealed, also stealth can only be stacked up to a maximum of 5 times at any given time.

Now if the games Stealth had a 1 sec ICD on stealth application then it completely neuters Stealth stacking all it takes is a little simple math comprehension and knowing the ways Thieves enter Stealth you would see that.

It seems like you just don’t know how to handle Thieves and they are a counter to Reapers/necro in general if played well so I can see why you are being a little salty, (every class in game has at least one very strong counter to them. )

If they ever change that ICD to 1sec and it works ill agree with you. I dont actually die that much to thiefs in wvw as a ppwer reaper mainly because they r bad. But the same happens in my main DH, till i find that one good thief that has mechanichs that allows him to burst down a dh trough exausting their cds. I ve tried duelling such good thiefs and it comes down to luck even with reveal trap. Ots so much easier to counter a DH as soon as u know wich weapons he s using.

Yeah right now the only problem with Stealth is how it is able to be stacked unchecked besides the 5 stack limit, it used to not have a limit a couple years ago which was even more broken. I am very confident that if they used a 1 second ICD on stealth applications that it would fix almost all issues with Stealth in this game. Especially with the low Cd reveals 6 out of 9 classes have 3 of those being Aoe non targeted.

DoctorDing.5890:

Shared inventory slots don’t quite cut it. You cannot place anything in them that will become soulbound on use, even if it is currently not soulbound. It seems a daft restriction to me but it is what it is.

Again Shared Inventory and Bank Contract that solves the issue and is in game and will improve every single characters Inventory Space immensely

Straegen.2938:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Apparently you think that thieves have unlimited Initiative which they don’t you can’t stack stealth and have super high mobility, since both require a very huge amount of Initiative and subject to Weapon swap CDs.

I agree with your post in principle but you left out skills and traits from the stacking. Thieves can indeed stack a significant amount of stealth and keep their mobility with stealth on steal, Blinding Powder and HiS added onto the init based versions.

If they also travel via staff rather than SB, each Vault gens endurance which feeds Bound allowing them to stack stealth on the move. Add on a signet along with Rejuvenation and thieves have high mobility and a solid stealth up time.

Yes I was just fighting his argument of Omg Teefz so OP, with showing the blatant flaws and even with Bound there are big flaws most importantly the Aoe damage Bound has which can easily negate the stealth stacking/gained. And if they implemented the 1second ICD per application it would reduce those skills stacking effects even further especially since they have CDs to not allow spamming of stealth

@OriOri

There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.

Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.

Mikhael.2391:

Stealth should not stack at all. You get syealth for x time and thats it like regular games with stealth. Want more stealth? use the other abilitie that also gives stealth and wait for the mext cooldowns to get it back. This way no thief would ever get in and out of fights when they feel like it. If im a necro in wvw and a see a thief or warr or dh or any other class that has more mobility i either choose to fight or i choose to fight because theres no escaping as a necro. But also as many classes without stealth i wont be able to run in to a group of 2 to 4 or 5 and annoy them try to kill someone and then run away, sure you can say dh and warriors can do that but eventually cooldowns will kill them and cc. As thief with just a few stacking (not perma stealth) you can still do this due to best mobility in game and stealth and burst damage. What i would like to see is stealth being used as opening for surprise atack and another stealth to run away if things go south without getting back in and out as they please with 9 reliable dodges plus stealth plus cc.

Apparently you think that thieves have unlimited Initiative which they don’t you can’t stack stealth and have super high mobility, since both require a very huge amount of Initiative and subject to Weapon swap CDs. Thieves best mobility comes in the form of SB 5 a spammable 6 Initiative 900 range Shadowstep, guess what if he is doing that he isn’t stacking stealth, the main way Thieves abuse stealth Stacking is D/P with BP and HS which costs 8 Initiative total (so no spamming SB 5 for mobility going on) with multiple instances to interrupt them because precasts and after casts.

Also as stated before every other mmo has stealth that lasts indefinitely till canceled and does not have a 3-4 second base duration. Aso there is the revealed mechanic which locks Thieves out of stealth from anywhere from 3-30 seconds depending on how the thief is revealed, also stealth can only be stacked up to a maximum of 5 times at any given time.

Now if the games Stealth had a 1 sec ICD on stealth application then it completely neuters Stealth stacking all it takes is a little simple math comprehension and knowing the ways Thieves enter Stealth you would see that.

It seems like you just don’t know how to handle Thieves and they are a counter to Reapers/necro in general if played well so I can see why you are being a little salty, (every class in game has at least one very strong counter to them. )

Bellatrixa.3546:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Not at all. It’s more pointing out that recipes like that are in no way prestigious and still require Mystic Coins. Those trays of pies come in quite handy on a weekly basis for my guild during guild rushes. It tickles me that single recipe is more expensive than more useful recipes for feasts. If I had the Mystic Coins to spare, I’d be more than happy to stick up a recipe myself for half the price and see how long it takes to sell. Sadly I need them for Mystic weapons and the like. Again, the coins used in creating those recipes could and imo should be substituted for something else.

Again that’s just the recipe, and you can make it for approx 42g if you buy all 50 Mystic Coins, since trays/Feasts have exponential value compared to any other food buff in game that is a small price, there is absolutely no reason to buy the Recipe on the TP since the recipes do not require any crafting profession to make.

Sounds like you are looking for the Bank Access contract and your free Shared inventory slot…..

Bellatrixa.3546:

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Here is only 1 Mango Pie tray on the TP the seller wants 100g but people are only willing to pay 15g the that will never sell. Just saying that could be a remnant from when that recipe was first introduced and the seller never took it down since he would probably lose more gold than it is actually worth from the TP taxes

Amaimon.7823:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

ShoknAwe.1602:

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

People want to get more of them faster so they don’t have to think of buying them to increase their current rate,

They’re already ridiculously expensive. if I had to buy 250 Mystic Coins, I would sooner wait [250/60] months than that I’d be able to get that much money… okay… I’m exaggerating a bit, but you get my point.

Plus, the supply CANNOT increase. So buying more will only deplete the store faster further increasing the price.

They have a lot of utility yea, you should look up the recipes on wiki. And they keep adding more of those recipes

For example, the new Legendaries cost 77 clovers and a Mystic Tribute.
that is (with absolute luck) at least 77 mystic coins + 250 more. And thats just 1 recipe

Again it’s not feasible to think you will need to be able to craft all the recipes that require Mystic Coins, and again their are other avenues for the Legendary Items to get Clovers that do not require Mystic Coins at all so you can hoard you Coins for other skins. Yes the New Legendaries require 250 coins no matter what but meh it’s a non issue since PU don’t even have to do anything to get the coins besides log in, absolutely zero effort for an important item,

Also you can receive anywhere from 5 or 50 of them from crafting Mystic Clovers, also from Fractal Daily, Mystic Forge related dailies boxes. So no there doesn’t need to be an increase in acquisition methods.

Korgov.7645:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Korgov.7645:

Mesmers don’t have much use for long duration stealth. Glass cannon base mesmer may need some seconds to recharge the mantras and wait for Mind Wrack/Prestige cooldown. Other mesmer builds just lose damage if hovering in stealth.

PU Mesmers require long duration Stealth since it effectively shortens all their Torch CDs which means more Condis and faster access to stealth so their condis can do all the work.

Extra 1.5 seconds off torch cooldowns in exhange for doing nothing for 1 second hardly justifies taking Prismatic Understanding trait. PU condi mesmers have upgraded to chronomancer condi which does not even take Chaos trait line. Besides PU delays the Prestige damage by 1.5 seconds.

They are very prevalent in WvW. You do see variants but it still doesn’t mean PU and stealth stacking isn’t needed/Used by them. I know with Chronomancer they don’t need to use it since they can reset their CDs and use Alacrity which fills similar roles of increasing stealth access

ShoknAwe.1602:

i have 56 mystic coins, and i have no idea what to do with them, 77s is just too low to sell on the TP i’d barely make 40 gold, and apparently they have a lot of utility that i’m yet unaware of so i don’t understand the concern behind coin prices

People want to get more of them faster so they don’t have to think of buying them to increase their current rate,

Want easy win against 90% of most Thieves? Run MM build, granted you will be useless against almost every other class…..

Spartacus.3192:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Spartacus.3192:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Svarty.8019:

Thief OP thanks to Karl McLain thief player and his balance team.

Twas ever thus. Move along.

He loves his Guardian more, iirc he has even stated as such don’t quote though me as it was a while and could be wrong.

LOL what? I remember seeing a balance patch preview of Karl and he forgot the name of one of the Guardian traits. Yeah he luuuuuves Guardian.

You act like he never did that with Thief, I think the most recent time was when he was showcasing Daredevil

I don’t know what he did to thief I was just responding to the “he loves his guardian more”

Ah, I only said that because I see him talk more about Guardian than any of his other classes he is in charge of as well as how he talks about them

cranos.5913:

Hayden.2091:

Only thing is that .. The community is awful in this thing.
Guardian/DH is 3rd highest DPS class after Ele and Thief.
But of course people (on raids) rather take one more Ele on squad than a guardian, which could be useful at some bosses ( as with Symbolic boons and reflects) ..

You know people somehow made raid playable in one fixated build and they nearly removed the possibility to take Guard or engi to raid.. of course there are exceptions i very proud about.

But still i love playing my lovely Guardian, it’s my main character, I play him in every mode and altough some people don’t admire him .. i don’t really mind ^^

Well that’s not exactly true. Engi and base condi ranger both have more DPS. That being said there are a lot of reasons to swap out a second ele with guardian or another class. But pugs will be pugs…

Pretty much this, most full pug groups are essentially Lemmings and look to others to tell them what works and they will not deviate because they don’t know any better, I know my guild two nights ago cleared a bit quiet easily using a Rev and a Guardian in their raid group with one Chrono, but pugs would say that will never work.

Yes but it will make this skill not be a trap in most circumstances

Spartacus.3192:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Svarty.8019:

Thief OP thanks to Karl McLain thief player and his balance team.

Twas ever thus. Move along.

He loves his Guardian more, iirc he has even stated as such don’t quote though me as it was a while and could be wrong.

LOL what? I remember seeing a balance patch preview of Karl and he forgot the name of one of the Guardian traits. Yeah he luuuuuves Guardian.

You act like he never did that with Thief, I think the most recent time was when he was showcasing Daredevil

saerni.2584:

A lot of D/P thieves stack stealth a few times to get an advantage over other thieves that can’t or don’t stack enough stealth. First strike advantage essentially.

Other than that, staff daredevil is more about evade spam, and offhand dagger uses stealth very briefly, at most 4 seconds at a time (single stack from CnD). P/P builds, unless they are using BD in Daredevil, also don’t have good stealth stacking access.

Stealth stacking is very effective counter to other thieves because thieves do rely on targets for steal, in D/P for Shadowshot, and other targeted abilities like Unload/Sneak Attack on pistol(s). That is part of why some thieves really want to see stealth stacking nerfed because it would make fighting D/P thieves somewhat more balanced as a non-D/P thief. It might also open up other parts of the class to buffs if D/P weren’t such a preferred set for most thieves.

Just Curious, is the X/D your speaking of using SA? If not the. It would be 3 seconds.

No, the Cultural Armor price is fine as is it Costs a small fortune for one full set to the majority of players, it is a constant people can work towards not something that should be handed out or become a super grind for some Rare skins. Plus it’s a well thought out Gold Sink for Anet since it takes chunks of gold out of the economy all at once

Korgov.7645:

Hanza.6872:

An interesting discussion. However, to be talking about the same thing the discussion should be split into two factors. (Disclaimer, I’m a thief main, but trying to stay objective)

1. Stealth Stacking.
In my opinion there is currently too much of this. Both thief and mesmer can stay in stealth for prolonged periods of time. However, many of their builds need stealth to stay alive.. Not easy to fix.. However, people often don’t slot reveals, because that would hurt their build against other opponents. Pick your poison I’d say.

Mesmers don’t have much use for long duration stealth. Glass cannon base mesmer may need some seconds to recharge the mantras and wait for Mind Wrack/Prestige cooldown. Other mesmer builds just lose damage if hovering in stealth.

What thief build (other than this ghost) absolutely needs stealth stacking in combat?

PU Mesmers require long duration Stealth since it effectively shortens all their Torch CDs which means more Condis and faster access to stealth so their condis can do all the work. No otherThief build uses stealth stacking unless escaping people or hiding from Zergs.

Seeing how CoR still hits for 15k plus at 1200 range I don’t think this is the skill that put the nail in Hammers Coffin, I think the other skills need a look at for re-evaluation

Svarty.8019:

Thief OP thanks to Karl McLain thief player and his balance team.

Twas ever thus. Move along.

He loves his Guardian more, iirc he has even stated as such don’t quote though me as it was a while and could be wrong.

Verthurnax.2784:

Yeah sure, let me find a guild for raiding on lfg. Requirements to get in guild 100li with tonic and eternal title. THX FOR THIS SUGESTION, NOW I NEED TO PUG TILL I FARM ALL THIS.

Look in the guild recruitment section as well as don’t try to join those groups in the lfg there are a lot of Raid Guilds that don’t impose those restrictions

Mikhael.2391:

Hanza.6872:

An interesting discussion. However, to be talking about the same thing the discussion should be split into two factors. (Disclaimer, I’m a thief main, but trying to stay objective)

1. Stealth Stacking.
In my opinion there is currently too much of this. Both thief and mesmer can stay in stealth for prolonged periods of time. However, many of their builds need stealth to stay alive.. Not easy to fix.. However, people often don’t slot reveals, because that would hurt their build against other opponents. Pick your poison I’d say.

2. Condition Damage.
It is too easy to stack a lot of conditions on people that do a lot of damage, for a whole range of classes. On top of this the standard condition clearing options take longer to get off cooldown vs the condition applying ones. So the game highly favours those using conditions.

However, I do find that many people complaining simply don’t have enough clears in their build and then start to complain about conditions being out of control.

This style of playing combines both of these topics into an annoying and possibly deadly combination. So even though I agree that this type of gameplay shouldn’t be available it is not so easy to fix.

Both these issues should be discussed, for all classes, not just for this particular build or class. Because imo this isn’t a thief problem, in fact I do believe this type of thief play is in use because the class lacks in other departments. But that is the thief in me speaking. :P

But even if someone equips reveals and cleansing condis, a good thief still has enought mobility to run away for 5sec and restart the atack while burning the cds on the reveals and condi clearing. It is as it is no point defending this anymore.

Hence why fixing stealth stacking fixes the main issues of this playstyle, but I guess you are just going to keep failing to understand that, the best way to prevent stealth stacking is the ICD since it stops a thief from stack any real amount of stealth.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’d rather see them make Sneak Gyro have the same effect, honestly.

This is a case of answering power creep with power creep as a comparison or trying to mesh incompatible mechanics. SR’s supposed to have counterplay either by dropping bombs on it or CC’ing the thief out of the ring; it says “I’m here but you can’t see or target me” and is a great get-out-of-jail-free card if used properly and timed when your target doesn’t have an answer, since it also heals. The Daredevil does not sit in one place and isn’t meant to, and while utilities should mesh, recognizing differences in style and intent as great as this one suggest they should be kept exclusive, particularly in the sense that you’d have incredible evasion and reset potential also being able to utilize a very powerful long-lasting stealth effect.

I don’t see it as being power creep but reverting an obsolete Nerf, it already has enough counter play in the form of Hard counters with Aoe reveal, It’s highly visible and very stationary, as well as being very prone to being Cc/Aoe bombed on the location.

Svarty.8019:

Mikhael.2391:

1sec still feels like they ll be able to be quite some time in stealth.

That’s why the thieves in this thread advocate this solution.

Apparently people can’t do simple math.

Black Powder duration 4 Seconds
Heartseeker 3/4 second cast time plus after cast

Now if stealth stacking has a 1 sec ICD it would stop stealth stacking and would only allow for 2 leaps through BP tops but hey I guess not every can figure that out which means the Thief will only get 4-5 seconds of stealth from those two leaps much wow such stacks many stealths…

Nebast.7631:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sorry but nice try. Seeing how you can’t perma stealth with staff or perma evade with it either because punish frames are a thing

What are punish frames?

I think he was referring to the dp/staff builds ran atm though perma stealth is not usefull in pvp at all.

TBH I do find the constant bounding and voting a noting when I run my other to ons and come up against one specialy my necro who’s shouts and aoes all have to be perfectly timed to hit between the bunny hoping but since they die in seconds after I can live with that.

Punish frames the the animations frames baked into almost all Thief evade skills i.e. DB and Vault both have 1/2 sec cast where you are locked into animation and can’t cancel the evade is only on the first half of the skill the second half is free game while the thief is vulnerable so if someone spams those skill they die easily, and the D/P won’t give permastealth especially if what he says is true how he spams Vault since he will have no Initiative.

Sorry but nice try. Seeing how you can’t perma stealth with staff or perma evade with it either because punish frames are a thing

Loop.8106:

Im surprised theres no FGS meta recall yet. All hail the Elementalist overlords.

The Icebow Nerf hurt them more

Toolbox.9375:

Well, let’s be fair here, Fyre. Sneak Gyro is also highly visible, and destroyable at that. However, I do agree that the reveal needs to go, and maybe get a lower cooldown as well.

I’m not asking for the SR be mobile, that is fine since the Gyro is killable and that balances it out, but the fact that that skill has only advantages and no draw backs besides it being killable is why I want the SR to no longer self reveal.

DeceiverX.8361:

For the thief… launch. Easy.

Quickness still at 100% cast speed and not a boon, PW dealing another 20% damage, with no precast animation, no Revealed debuff, no ICD on stealth attacks, CnD dealing 20% more damage, Mug critting, Assassin’s Signet applying a 50% damage modifier, Critical Strikes trait line actually being useful, permanent 14 might and stealth from SA alone, infinite stealth on D/P alone, multiple trait lines with crazy strong adept traits, Basilisk Venom couldn’t be stunbroken and ignored stability, permanent blind/multi-pulses on Black Powder, Dagger Storm dealing way more damage, Dancing Dagger’s damage up by ~75% with an extra bounce, shortbow range at 1200, shortbow AA having more damage, shortbow AA ignoring stealth and teleports on bounces, HiS cleansed all the DoT conditions, Infiltrator’s Strike costed less initiative and didn’t have a second part – just an instant evade, and most significantly, no silly powercreep yet in the core game.

I probably missed a few more big ones since then, but those were just the major ones that came to mind.

This, somedays I wish to bring this back to show people they have it good against thieves compared to Thief at Launch.

They “could” make reward tracks for each zone for both Pvp and WvW that at each tier award a poi/vista/WP/heart and so on that lead up to the gift of exploration. It would take anywhere from 125 hrs to 200 hrs total ( slightly less than minimum with Daily chests involved) to complete in WvW, I am not going to crunch how long it would take in pvp

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Now more classes have reveal then don’t, I think that would be fair. Although it largely dropped out of the meta because of being unable to dodge within the ring with daredevil as much as anything, so I’d say it depends on what the next elite spec brings.

I can understand that but look at all the flaws it has currently:

Static location
High CD
Highly Visible
Small radius
Can be knocked out of
Self Reveal if left prematurely

Now let’s look at the better version of it known as Stealth Gyro:

Mobile
Provides longer Stealth
No self reveal
Shorter Cd
No Heal
Can be used as a large Aoe reveal

Comparing the two one would only be used in vey fringe cases since it is almost a death sentence to use it.

alain.1659:

I think there should be some changes made with the entire profession.

1- Remove heartseeker from dagger 2
2-No stealth + traps cheese
3- Add an f3 button for stealth (as it is the bloody trademark of the profession) with an adjusted amount of duration/cd.
4-Remove too much invis stacking from mesmer. Thief should be the best one in stealth-ing.
5- Adjust the other utilities and damages accordingly, no power or condi creep.

Ta daaaa. No more problem. Now apply this kind of attitude to every other profession.

That will never happen this late in the game

Mikhael.2391:

1sec still feels like they ll be able to be quite some time in stealth. I would agree if they did not have the huge ammount of mobility they have already. Seems thiefs still want to stealth long enought to be able to fight while using stealth. Should be a getaway button or opening damage for the surprise atack nothing else.

Not really you have to take into account The duration of BP being only 4 sec, the cast time of HS being 3/4sec and all of this uses Initiative which is a highly Finite resource and each stealth application only being 3-4 secs total in duration. So if they have to wait 1 second in between each stack of stealth the thief will not be able to stack stealth using BP combo or Bound combo.

Mikhael.2391:

babazhook.6805:

Mikhael.2391:

I d suggest those traps do damage that reveals from stealth. Just a small amount of direct damage.

Bad idea. The trap will become unusable as it was before.

They had direct damage before and no thief used them because they could get the thief killed . In that respect they were very much like that forced “last refuge”.

The issue is not traps. There only one trap used in this build. Again I can lay down 11 confusion stacks from stealth without using a single trap.

But if a dh deals damage using trapper runes or ranger druid it breaks stealth aswell. No class should be able to do damage while in stealth i say that again.

Again the Devs specifically made that decision to Thief traps fully bowing the interaction, the problem you are having is with Stacking Stealth and not the damage portion, removing the stealth stacking capabilities will neuter the Ghost Thief, placing a 1 sec ICD on all stealth application will fix almost every single issue players have with Gw2 stealth.

Neither of those classes you listed are designed around stealth or rely on it, so the comparison is moot.

Jeknar.6184:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jeknar.6184:

Remove the leap finisher from Heartseeker. Problem solved.

Then Thieves would have the worst stealth access in the whole game compared to every other class that has it and they are designed for stealth unlike every other class in game.

Plus your suggestion would ruin more than just Stealth on Thief since that finisher is useful for a lot of other combo fields. The best idea is to implement the 1 sec ICD on stealth stacking across the board.

I hardly see anyone use Heartseeker other than stack stealth. Your “that finisher is useful for a lot of other combo fields” argument is silly because of that. Besides, you have Bound for all your leap finisher needs.

Sure, the ICD on stealth aplication would be the best, but you cannot suggest hard to implement things because you can be sure they will never happen.

To be honest, thief should just be totally reworked so stealth can be reworked too.

So one trait from ES is your answer to removing a leap finisher on the core class?, that’s laughable, yes they should rework how stealth works. will a complete overhaul happen? No. A lot of Thief mains and others have asked for an overhaul on the class and stealth multiple times since launch to no avail, so an ICD which shouldn’t be too hard to implement since they do it on absolutely everything else ingame for the most part.

The leap finisher is very useful especially for Water Fields, Fire fields and Dark fields specifically just because you don’t see it being use doesn’t mean they never get used.

You want stealth stacking nerfed the ICD would do that and it punish players that attempt it. Since Stealth for thieves is applied in increments of 3 or 4 secs, the ICD on Stealth Application plus the actual cast time of HS would virtually eliminate stealth stacking abusers.

Jeknar.6184:

Remove the leap finisher from Heartseeker. Problem solved.

Then Thieves would have the worst stealth access in the whole game compared to every other class that has it and they are designed for stealth unlike every other class in game.

Plus your suggestion would ruin more than just Stealth on Thief since that finisher is useful for a lot of other combo fields. The best idea is to implement the 1 sec ICD on stealth stacking across the board.

Knighthonor.4061:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Knighthonor.4061:

I been saying this for a while. The Rev needs a revamp. It was clear that the developed made a rush to judgement when they were trying to meet the HoT release date. Because they were still changing critical parts of the class all the way up to that date, rather that just smoothing out bugs in the class.

The class is broken.

First change the energy system.
Get rid of the Weapon Swap but also get rid of Legend Cool Down Swap as a trade off.
Make Healer Legend actually useful as a Healer, or make it do both Support and Offensive abilities.
Make Dwarf Level more of a Tank. This here go back to the original Alpha Staff design were it was a tanking melee weapon with some heal support.

I would want to see the Energy System start at 50 then degrade overtime when out of combat.

Also remove the energy costs on skills and rework their CDs, leave utilities and Elites to maintain their energy costs.

I think those two changes plus fixing all the bugs would go a long way to setting a stable foundation for the class, then working on re-evaluating each legend. I like the concept of the class but the reality of it is what has held me back from actually playing it after the BWEs

The Energy System was based on Guild Wars 1. Why change whats not broken? Go back and make the Rev Skill System like it was in GW1 where you start at full and it regens over time, but skills use up Energy. Simple, and proven to Work. The current system doesnt work, especially when both weapons and legends had energy cost.

It’s more along the lines of being based off of Thief Initiative system more than the energy system from Gw1, they just made all of Rev Utilities use it as well and giving upkeep. And CDs.

If they did as you requested it would be more broken than Thief just based on the level of strength Rev skills have on top of being spammable, a lot of skills would need to be nerfed to implement that system.

Knighthonor.4061:

I been saying this for a while. The Rev needs a revamp. It was clear that the developed made a rush to judgement when they were trying to meet the HoT release date. Because they were still changing critical parts of the class all the way up to that date, rather that just smoothing out bugs in the class.

The class is broken.

First change the energy system.
Get rid of the Weapon Swap but also get rid of Legend Cool Down Swap as a trade off.
Make Healer Legend actually useful as a Healer, or make it do both Support and Offensive abilities.
Make Dwarf Level more of a Tank. This here go back to the original Alpha Staff design were it was a tanking melee weapon with some heal support.

I would want to see the Energy System start at 50 then degrade overtime when out of combat.

Also remove the energy costs on skills and rework their CDs, leave utilities and Elites to maintain their energy costs.

I think those two changes plus fixing all the bugs would go a long way to setting a stable foundation for the class, then working on re-evaluating each legend. I like the concept of the class but the reality of it is what has held me back from actually playing it after the BWEs

How would you feel if Anet removed the Self Reveal from Shadow Refuge? It seems like a relic of the past that should have been removed with the Advent of the Stealth Gyro.

saerni.2584:

I would decrease the initiative cost by 1 as well to compensate. Otherwise you are right that the cost would be prohibitive.

If they could implement an internal cooldown for stealth application that might work. I wonder at the complexity of implementation over other solutions though.

The implementation shouldn’t be too difficult since they designed. Certain skills to all stealth stacking with SR and SG which both have long durations to apply Stealth so the 1 sec ICD wouldn’t impact them too greatly, but it will make stealth Stacking more prohibitive

Astralporing.1957:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

I haven’t seen that many complaints about differences between fractal and pvp backpack acquisition method.
Yes, some people would complain (because some people always complain), but that wouldn’t be all that common.

When in doubt, erring on the side of raids getting their version faster/cheaper (as long as the difference wouldn’t be massive) would be perfectly fine.

Which is funny since the Fractal backpiece is guaranteed if you do the Fractals while the Pvp one was not.

Malediktus.3740:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

And for those players that own those skins? Should they be unable to use the skins on other characters?

All of the skins you listed are available; they periodically show up in the Gem Store.

Glorious Hero Armor begs to differ…….. and a few others

Isn’t glorious hero armor a hidden until unlocked skin?

I believe my UI shows it, I could be wrong though. Haven’t looked for it specifically in a while.

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

The thing is you can reliably farm Mystic Clovers through Pvp and WvW without having to involve RNG or Mystic Coins.