Guild Wars 2

I think the reason they don’t have the hide shoulders options is that the outfit is a continuous mesh/texture without anything underneath the shoulder portion. I could be wrong and they may have multiple layers

The person has to be disconnected for 2 minutes + b4 match ends for you not to lose a pip

displayname.8315:

Mikhael.2391:

Im sorry i meant besides loosing stealth as opening hit should get people out of stealth when hit by direct damage only not condis aswell. And no other game i played was “broken” because of people getting out of stealth when hit by direct damage. Would get thiefs to better time their close aproaches on targets and not just go in and be at ease because will be able to have stealth and run away without fear of repercussions.

Yeah I agree condis remaining from previous hits should not effect stealth but taking hits should remove stealth. Just like pretty much every PvP MMO. It’s that way for reason.

Not sure why all these people are talking about thieves, this thread is about stealth, as the OP reminded us.

The other Mmos have stealth that last until cancelled or removed while stealth in this game is all on very short duration for the majority so they are different stealth mechanics, and this game has by far more Aoe damage skills than most Other mmos with stealth mechanics that remove from damage.
They do need to overhaul stealth in this game but that will more than likely never happen.

How are they not equivalent? They are both the only legendary backpieces ingame, why should you get one in a shorter time than anyone else because you are impatient?

Archon.3987:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You do realize the other legendary back piece took a Minimum of 3-4 months to craft correct?

And the PvP-League back item is relevant here because…?

Equivalent items should take equivalent time and effort….. just saying

You do realize the other legendary back piece took a Minimum of 3-4 months to craft correct?

Straegen.2938:

D/D sucks in PvE, sPvP and WvW. For PvE, switch to Staff, S/P or P/P.

I personally like S/P since it hits like a truck and evades the entire time it is damaging. However Vault from Staff is a PvE mob buster. As far as a complete set, I really like Staff and P/P together.

D/D sucks in some PvE content but right now D/D power is one of the Meta Thief builds for raids and for Fractals it has very high single target DPS.

darkaheart.4265:

@BlaqueFyre

how did your build turn out?
the last one you describe on your Roaming Build Ideas

It has been working out well, I am making slight tweaks to fine tune I have been playing around with s/d with D/p offset, it has very good mobility in and ooc, each set provides different play styles that answer the different builds. Your will come across.

Jana.6831:

Eval.2371:

Yes I did edit my post to add the video link and the comment below the line.
Yea, the video is kitten quality, GW2 bottlenecks my ancient cpu so its low quality & terribly fragmented, despite being constant 63 fps and not fragmented in game.

Why did I make a video?

• To point out the two things you mentioned, one of which was that leaping back in is automatically a leap finisher which is not unless you couple it with movement.
• To show that heartseeker shortening (which I agree your not doing & agree that I suck at doing b/c I normally use action cam) makes a 4 leap inside black powder trivial, which you cannot do on action camera.

I don’t play d/p either, I’m primary s/x.

Thank you (I mean it).
I also got how people can “manipulate” action cam for shorter leaps – that was a no brainer. What I didn’t get is that leaping 4 times which I did the first time I equipped D/P was a problem to some. Apart from me not being a fan of action cam anyway as that thing brought more problems than anything (and question is if they’ll be able to fix it without messing up everything else) : Should we really nerf something because some can do it and others can’t?
In that case I want the camera movements of havoc (thief player) please – because I’m honestly jealous of how precise everything he does is.
And if you spin this further: should stealth really be nerfed just because it confuses some?

I apologize, I was wrong you can do it without using the using the camera exploit.

Yeah only time I have issues with reflects are Ele and Scrapper due to all their low cd reflects.

I ran DA/Tri/CS very reliably using assassins/Valk and maurader mix, using ROI for an evade Condi cleanse and more pressure or to give Ini for disengage with SB. Withdraw is a far superior heal than Signet, now if you want to be pretty trolley you can run Signet heal Invigorating Precision and the Acro heal on Ini use, and have very fun sustain especially if you mix SR with it sit in SR for the lifesteal projectile finishers

It could have merit but without DA you are missing out on Panick Strike, it can is an amazing trait with P/P, the Commanders is interesting since it buffs your Might duration, you may want more precision and ferocity it really helps P/P with Unload bursts.you could swap out Assassins signet for Roll for Initiative since you are running Trickster,

TwiceDead.1963:

CreedOfGod.9764:

I think thief getting rifle would be sick. Stealthy sniper seems like it would be crazy fun in wvw. And don’t even get me started on the fashion wars with The Predator.

It would also be completely broken though…

You can’t give a class range, mobility and damage all at once, and since thieves are all about being slippery with their stealth and mobility oriented utility skills and traits, I don’t see them giving us range and damage at the same time.

Unless they somehow remove a lot of our mobility options, like rooting us in place whenever we want to fire.

They did it for Druid so that is no longer an excuse apparently…..

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

I dont agree with a build that allows killing people before getting out of stealth. From my experience from other games stealth should be removed when receiving direct damage while in stealth for ex and no more stacking stealth at all if u wanna keep stealth ingame. I agree on the druid stealth, it already has so much sustain that that only makes it worst. Scrapper tbh i just kill gyros or aoe around them till it pops out. Depending on what im playing it doesnt bother me nearly as much as thief.

Direct damage already removes stealth and Anet Nerfed all Stealth attacks last patch on top of that, the only spec that doesn’t remove stealth is the “Ghost Thief” which shouldn’t exist yes and what makes it broken is the the D/P stealth stacking exploit, if they fix the exploit that build will not be broken anymore.

Stealth is only a problem in some cases the Thief D/P exploit, Druid Stealth and Scrapper stealth and to an extent PU Condi Mesmer.

TL:DR

Anet needs to fix the D/P stealth stacking exploit, remove stealth from classes it wasn’t designed for, boom Stealth problem solved

What i meant was getting hit by direct damage. Thats how usually works.

Too much mindless Aoe in game on low cd for that to be eve feasible

sophiewhite.3149:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

sophiewhite.3149:

savacli.8172:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Its just this simple : You need any mechanic to be explained to you? If so you need to join a training group, no excuse.
If you know every mechanic and saw at least 1 time every mechanic by yourself ( even if you dont got a kill ) then you join an exp group. Its what training and exp groups are, you just joined the wrong one on sab.

^This

One thing is being exp’d but not quite gotten your kill on a boss yet. That’s totally understandable, and everyone has gone through that stage with every boss. Though by walking into a group stating, “I’m exp but don’t have the kill” I would have to assume you are familiar with all the mechanics of the fight and have hands-on practice/experience. So, I can’t say I blame groups that are frustrated with you for jeopardizing the fight because you mess up on a mechanic as you introduced yourself as “exp’d”.

If you’re not familiar with a certain mechanic with a fight? Be honest about and say something along the lines of “I’m familiar with the fight, but might need a few things explained.” If a group kicks you then? Well, they may not have the patience/time to walk someone through the mechanics and would rather have someone seasoned who’s ready to go. And no, it’s not as simple as “spend two minutes explaining the mechanic” as at that point you only have theoretical knowledge of the mechanic and not applied knowledge. Plus, if you’re upfront about being unclear about an encounter the group may opt to place you in a less pressured role to where you’re still contributing, but you don’t have as much of a critical role to play.

In your case I would have to agree with others and say that you should go with a training group or form your own team with others of similar experience. Coming from the other side of the squad nothing is more frustrating than inviting a player who states a certain degree of skill/experience but can’t deliver on it. In short, please don’t join an exp if you’re not truly exp’d. The other players in the squad will know if someone is trying to slip in for a carry, and it honestly wastes the time of 10 players.

i would love to join pug groups. except i have 2 boss kills. every lfg requires 100+

Find a training lfg or training guild…..

am i really supposed to train for 100+ times before i can run with groups that actually have decent success? training groups only kill the first boss. ive killed 2 so far.

No you don’t but training groups kill more than just the first boss, find a raid training guild there are quite a few, both NA and EU. Or you can always make your own group…

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

I dont agree with a build that allows killing people before getting out of stealth. From my experience from other games stealth should be removed when receiving direct damage while in stealth for ex and no more stacking stealth at all if u wanna keep stealth ingame. I agree on the druid stealth, it already has so much sustain that that only makes it worst. Scrapper tbh i just kill gyros or aoe around them till it pops out. Depending on what im playing it doesnt bother me nearly as much as thief.

Direct damage already removes stealth and Anet Nerfed all Stealth attacks last patch on top of that, the only spec that doesn’t remove stealth is the “Ghost Thief” which shouldn’t exist yes and what makes it broken is the the D/P stealth stacking exploit, if they fix the exploit that build will not be broken anymore.

Stealth is only a problem in some cases the Thief D/P exploit, Druid Stealth and Scrapper stealth and to an extent PU Condi Mesmer.

TL:DR

Anet needs to fix the D/P stealth stacking exploit, remove stealth from classes it wasn’t designed for, boom Stealth problem solved

Mikhael.2391:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

Before u go apesh.t try a proper daredevil spec without stealth.

Oh you mean the staff build evade spam or the D/D DB spam? I have tried those They don’t have all other options they have no burst heals, no invulns, 1 block skill granted on a low CD, so go ahead and when the new elite spec comes out guess what no third dodge no staff and so on, D/P still uses stealth pretty heavily, and the core of Thief designs is based on stealth. So unless they give Thieves a lot more sustain through Heals and invulnerables/Blocks and everything else that all the other classes had you can’t take away Thief Stealth, and it would require a complete overhaul of the Thief since 1 traitline is based soley on Stealth and 2 others have stealth traits, 1 heal 2 utilities apply stealth and every weapon has a stealth attack.

I don’t think people understand what removing stealth entails. Now the issues people have with stealth is 1 an exploit that allows ridiculous amounts of stealth stacking and classes that have stealth that shouldn’t i.e. Druid and scrapper and to an extent Mesmer.

So yes if they remove stealth completely they should remove all the passives and invulnerables from all the other classes it is equivalent.

Serious.7083:

Jana.6831:

ETA: Btw you don’t need stealth removal skills, but the game and its players are that dumbed down that they think they do. What’s even worse is that they’re too lazy to even use them SMH.

True, what we need is all of the stealth removed from the game and see if you really need it. considering all of the other options thieves have I think you will get along fine without.

BTW I didn’t comment on conditions, that used to be far too weak.

All the other options? You mean evades? If they remove stealth completely they would have to give Thief a whole new core traitline, rework 2 other traitlines rework every weapon set rework core utiliities change…. just saying Stealth should have a been a thief only mechanic since it is tied to almost everything Thief has.

If they remove all Thief they should remove all Passive defenses and invulnerability style skills classes have and see if they really need those since they have a lot of other options, this is how you sound.

maddoctor.2738:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

maddoctor.2738:

Ohoni.6057:

If it’s longer range that P/P AND deals more damage than P/P they why have P/P in the game anymore?

For the Ricochet.

Also, it requires pointing out that the sniper rifle would be restricted to the “Sniper,” so P/P would always have use for Daredevils, and for later Thief specs. Also, P/P is like the Ranger Shortbow, Rifle would be like Ranger Long Bow, you can have both.

Ricochet is no longer a trait.

P/P is power, Rifle is power so nothing like ranger shortbow and longbow. What you are saying is that this Sniper spec will have a weapon that is superior to P/P and P/P will be useless for it. And you are OK with it.

And off-topic, you were so against a Sword for Elementalists because it would be similar to Dagger. But not against this Rifle although it would be similar to Pistol /Pistol, wow.

P/P is actually a Hybrid set…… can be built for power or Condi you just see more power builds because Unload spam..

P/D is better at condi than P/P isn’kitten

P/D is a better Condi spec in some aspects but mix DD with Bound and P/P is very good as Condi since stealth access is very good which means more Condi pressure from stealth attack and if you have perplex runes and such you can have a good Condi build for WvW. Again it’s a hybrid set it’s neither our power or Condi same with D/D is Hybrid

maddoctor.2738:

Ohoni.6057:

If it’s longer range that P/P AND deals more damage than P/P they why have P/P in the game anymore?

For the Ricochet.

Also, it requires pointing out that the sniper rifle would be restricted to the “Sniper,” so P/P would always have use for Daredevils, and for later Thief specs. Also, P/P is like the Ranger Shortbow, Rifle would be like Ranger Long Bow, you can have both.

Ricochet is no longer a trait.

P/P is power, Rifle is power so nothing like ranger shortbow and longbow. What you are saying is that this Sniper spec will have a weapon that is superior to P/P and P/P will be useless for it. And you are OK with it.

And off-topic, you were so against a Sword for Elementalists because it would be similar to Dagger. But not against this Rifle although it would be similar to Pistol /Pistol, wow.

P/P is actually a Hybrid set…… can be built for power or Condi you just see more power builds because Unload spam..

Serious.7083:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I don’t think stealth is really utilized that much anymore tbh. It seems like dodges is the new cool thing to do.
I main necro, so I instantly hate all thiefs for their stealth, dodges, and cool scarfs and kinky gear they get to sport.

There are even more people using stealth out there.

JahCool.3812:

I suggest you put in yourself in the position of the thief before you complain. Do you know how much nerf they got?

Less than half of what they should have got. I see people putting up messages about internal cool downs in skills, totally useless if the skill lasts for more than a couple of seconds.

Jana.6831:

Rangers can, druids can, engineers can, scrapper can.

Have you tried the supposed Ranger stealth removal skill? First you have to equip it, and in any other circumstance it has no use, so rangers don’t carry it. Second you have to predict when the thief or other toon is going to go invisible and activate it as the thief vanishes. That makes it useless. Oh and before that you have to know the thief is there, so they get to backstab you first, a crit and it could be your downed before you even know you are being attacked.

The problem is that the thief and every other profession is balanced for PvE. sPvP has it’s own balance because of the small area.

WvW needs balancing for itself. Invisibility is far stronger than elsewhere and there should be far less of it available.

The problem isn’t invisibility by itself the problem is the main culprit on Thief is an exploit with D/P that should have been fixed years ago, and then you have classes like druid and scrapper that shouldn’t have access to stealth as much as they do since they have the highest sustain in game on top of other tools.

If they fix the D/P exploit none of the issues with Thief stealth would be there, then they have to lower Druid and Scrapper stealth access or shave their sustain if they keep their level of stealth access.

sophiewhite.3149:

savacli.8172:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Its just this simple : You need any mechanic to be explained to you? If so you need to join a training group, no excuse.
If you know every mechanic and saw at least 1 time every mechanic by yourself ( even if you dont got a kill ) then you join an exp group. Its what training and exp groups are, you just joined the wrong one on sab.

^This

One thing is being exp’d but not quite gotten your kill on a boss yet. That’s totally understandable, and everyone has gone through that stage with every boss. Though by walking into a group stating, “I’m exp but don’t have the kill” I would have to assume you are familiar with all the mechanics of the fight and have hands-on practice/experience. So, I can’t say I blame groups that are frustrated with you for jeopardizing the fight because you mess up on a mechanic as you introduced yourself as “exp’d”.

If you’re not familiar with a certain mechanic with a fight? Be honest about and say something along the lines of “I’m familiar with the fight, but might need a few things explained.” If a group kicks you then? Well, they may not have the patience/time to walk someone through the mechanics and would rather have someone seasoned who’s ready to go. And no, it’s not as simple as “spend two minutes explaining the mechanic” as at that point you only have theoretical knowledge of the mechanic and not applied knowledge. Plus, if you’re upfront about being unclear about an encounter the group may opt to place you in a less pressured role to where you’re still contributing, but you don’t have as much of a critical role to play.

In your case I would have to agree with others and say that you should go with a training group or form your own team with others of similar experience. Coming from the other side of the squad nothing is more frustrating than inviting a player who states a certain degree of skill/experience but can’t deliver on it. In short, please don’t join an exp if you’re not truly exp’d. The other players in the squad will know if someone is trying to slip in for a carry, and it honestly wastes the time of 10 players.

i would love to join pug groups. except i have 2 boss kills. every lfg requires 100+

Find a training lfg or training guild…..

Danikat.8537:

What kind of thing are you thinking of?

The only legendary I have is the Dreamer and that already makes your arms glow pink. I was under the impression all the other legendaries did something similar. I know the Incinerator gives you a fire effect up your arms and Frostfang covers them in ice but I’m not sure about the others.

Is that not enough? What would you add to it?

Bolt has full body electricity aura, predator full body red aura, idk what kudzu has never seen it really be used but every legendary has a an Aura effect or arm effect as is

I don’t see why they would get them since Legendaries have full body Auras and persistent footfalls. So really they don’t need them

Artemis Thuras.8795:

OriOri.8724:

Seera.5916:

OriOri.8724:

Same thing with mystic coins (another item whose price has been an aggravating point of debate in recent months). Anet didn’t increase the supply at all outside of a tiny trickle (that came months after HoT did btw, and few to nobody participates anymore anyway), yet added absolutely massive new sinks for mystic coins with the GH upgrades, and the new legendaries requiring 500 mystic coins instead of just 250.

I get it, they see a problem and want to correct it, but they can’t be so heavy handed if they want to see good results. Change one or two things at a time, maximum, and then let it settle. It allows the economy to balance itself more, and prevents you from taking something from one extreme to the other without ever finding a happy medium.

And back on topic, I highly doubt the leather prices will come down. Anet keeps saying that people are hoarding them, but I seriously don’t think they are looking at why people are hoarding them. Its because of the sheer quantity that you need to craft anything.

When you need 8 Elonian Leather Squares just to craft a single Medium Ascended Coat (totaling 1,600 thick leather sections), of course people are going to hoard all the T5 leather they get. The incoming supply to each player is so kitten low that if you were to sell your own supply, you would never be able to farm that much back on your own. The same is not true for wood or ore, or even silk since it drops so often, you could farm that back in a few days, weeks at the most, but not leather. This is the big problem with leather. There might be a lot out there, but its already spoken for, and people don’t want to move their supply and sell it because the only way to get it back in any reasonable time frame is to buy it on the TP, and its simply not worth it.

If only ANet didn’t insist on being so heavy handed with the economy we wouldn’t be in this situation where they feel they are better off doing nothing at all instead of managing their own economy.

The problem with the Mystic Coins is that there are more being generated than are being consumed (and by that I mean put into the forge or whatever and being used) per statements made by ANet. They risk the market sending them to vendor trash if they do anything with the unused supply sitting so high. Even that trickle they did caused a slight panikittenil people realized it was once per day.

I know, and they should have added sinks for mystic coins. But I just think that too many sinks were added simultaneously, and people panicked. Mystic coins may sort themselves out eventually, but I really do not think that leather will sort itself out.

Not if they keep adding legendaries that require ~ 500 mystic coins they won’t..

You don’t need 500 mystic coins though for any of the since you can get Mystic Clovers for free very efficiently….

saerni.2584:

Escapist’s Absolution is incredibly useful for most thief specs. That combined with Unhindered Combatant makes Daredevil a winning combination in a lot of builds.

First, unhindered removed cripple, immobilize, chill and then EA removes an additional condition on top of that. This makes the thief more survivable.

I disagree that D/P is a better second set choice, in part because I use SB to chase and escape when large numbers are trying to kill me. SB is also faster at clearing camps by stacking poison fields and cluster bombs. That and caltrops will kill all of the camp guards really fast.

I’d say that D/P might be a reasonable second choice for some builds, but only in a 1v1 situation. These days it is hard to find 1v1. Often it is at least 2v1 or 3v1 for roamers. If 10+ people show up, a shadowstep and a few SB teleports will make you a lot safer than stealth from D/P imo.

Yes, not having SB does hinder in some case but using D/P as an offset fills in gaps S/D has and with S/D I can chase without being stuck with SB subpar damage and disengage relatively as easily, mix with Stealth from D/P once I have decent distance from enemy zergs.
But I have to rely on my utilities to disengage more so with my setup.

Rocky.8195:

Yea honestly D/P S/D HAS to be the meta for power thieves.

And do we all agree that P/D D/P is the meta for condi as oppose to D/D SB? Because I would merk the brains off any D/D SB or anything that has SB as OH with a P/D D/P build I guarenteed it that is a promise. It isn’t about how many bleeds you stack, its how many different types of conditions you can apply and P/D applies the most. I have no idea why you guys use SB in arenas over ANY other OH. Seriously? that’s INSANEEEE.

Would P/D D/P still benefit most off running a non daredevil build? or is every thief incorporating daredevil in their specs now because I can only see it useful for the lame D/D SB condi and D/P SB power specs.

Is it true that the REAL meta specs AKA P/D D/P and S/D/D/P are best left WITHOUT daredevil? and remain with their kin of ole? Thoughts please. This is real thief chat. Welcome to the xander zone.

One S/D is not Meta especially in sPvP it is overshadowed by D/P, it cannot provide near enough pressure since Thief is kitten in sPvP due to scaling of stats. It is a nice fun to play weaponset that is all. In WvW S/D is a viable weaponset by its self.

D/D is the Meta condi build because of the low risk high reward playstyle it provides, even if the bleeds and poisons get cleansed they are instantly reapplied and mixed with all the evades it offers it is a very forgiving build that can contest a point.

P/D Is very good but is not as rewarding for the game mode compared to D/D.

SB is indispensable in sPvP since Thief’s only role is decap/+1 SB is what gives Thief best mobility in Game, without it Mesmer and Druid outpace Thief in mobility for decapping.
In WvW you can get away without having SB but you will lack some mobility but not too much if you build your Utilities right.

Right now the Meta in WvW and sPvP for power is D/P and SB
Meta for condi is D/D and SB

Now in WvW Thief can use almost all weapons to great extent due to having proper scaling of stats and so on.

Right now Daredevil is almost always an auto include in most builds the only outliers are P/P where Da/Tri/Cs performs better burst running assassins /Mara mix. Or if you feel like running old D/P Meta build Da/Tri/Sa which still does surprising well it has less survivability and damage though of the DA/Tri/DD

Right now I have been running S/D and D/P to great results having both sets I can answer most threats it just relies on knowing how each set is supposed to be played, since they are vastly different play styles. Even without SB I still have very high mobility in and out of combat.

One of the big benefits I have seen to this setup for myself is swapping between the weaponsets and knowing when to swap is hard for most opponents to adjust to on the fly giving you the advantage in a lot of cases. You can build this for more damage or you can build for damage mitigation using Da/Tri/Dd.

Rocky.8195:

So P/D is still supreme for high skill thieves? If so, good. Now for power, S/D the best for high skill or is it kitten resulting in my migration to the incredibly low skill D/P?

I don’t use SB. I’m a high skill thief, therefore I figure the top condi spec is P/D and power is S/D just like the good old days? Serious inquiries only.

In higher tiers of sPvP S/D does not work well due to not being able to pressure out pressure the sustain builds, it limits most of your damage mitigation, now it does really well against less skilled players, currently D/P provides the most tools that work most effectively in sPvP, now in WvW S/D stills does pretty well currently I run both D/P and S/D which gives me all the tools I need to pressure all the classes besides the troll Bunker druid running around WvW.

babazhook.6805:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Simonoly.4352:

Stealth isn’t much of a problem anymore apart from the “Ghost Thief” which I would be surprised if Anet intended for such a build to exist especially as they nerfed Choking Gas to prevent the very thing that you can still do on Thief now. The problem is, sorting out that Thief build could have disastrous consequences for the health of Thief traps. It would probably be best for Anet to leave it alone.

They made it so all traps didn’t have direct damage so it doesn’t reveal thief, it was specifically stated for each trap that’s why they did it, and trapper runes were in the game at the time as well.

No one even used traps than and there was no “Ghost thief”. The single trap used in these builds is needle trap. They should not even be called trapper builds.

They are STEALTH builds and only work because of stealth stacking on d/p.

All the changes to traps did was allow these builds to access another means of doing damage while stealthed. Traps are no more an issue here then are caltrops or Perplexity rune number 6 or pain inverter or uncatchable.

(not refuting your points , just adding)

I didn’t play much back then do to irl so I don’t know if it was prevalent back when they made that change, but yes it isn’t a big issue for the most part just a highly annoying build to fight.

Simonoly.4352:

Stealth isn’t much of a problem anymore apart from the “Ghost Thief” which I would be surprised if Anet intended for such a build to exist especially as they nerfed Choking Gas to prevent the very thing that you can still do on Thief now. The problem is, sorting out that Thief build could have disastrous consequences for the health of Thief traps. It would probably be best for Anet to leave it alone.

They made it so all traps didn’t have direct damage so it doesn’t reveal thief, it was specifically stated for each trap that’s why they did it, and trapper runes were in the game at the time as well.

Malediktus.3740:

What I dont like about the map:
- it looks too plain and boring
- thief elite skill that finishes you skips the shield artifact bonus of free rezz
- classes with blinks/teleports have too much of an advantage

What I like about this map:
- nothing

You mean like how all the Aoe spam classes have too much of an advantage on the small point size for contesting? The teleporting is a trade off that Thieves and to an extent Mesmers get so they can be useful and decap since they can’t fight on point and contest without dying to all of the Aoe spam. Just saying it’s a compromise that is good for the game mode

Rocky.8195:

So D/D condi and D/P power BOTH with OH SB are the best right now as well as staff? How is D/D more viable that P/D condi?

P/D condi has the STRONGEST burst available in terms of condi. RkittenS>Steal>SS>BP>RF and repeat gives Bleeds, Poison, Torment AND Confusion with the correct sigils and runes. My question is has the damage/survivability of that P/D set hindered since HoT? Assume were using full Dire.

D/D provides easier gameplay and high survivability by either Timing Dodges with Lotus Training and Death Blossom or how beginner players use it and spam dodges and Death Blossom, they have a high evade uptime and depending on how it’s built Condis won’t stick to the thief. It is very effective for the very low Skill floor with High Survivability compared to P/D and the SB is the master of OOC mobility which the Thief needs to be relevant in the current conquest Meta.

The main D/D condi builds you will see are DA/TRI/DD or Acr/Tri/DD both can provide some bursty conditions the DA variant is more so while the Acro variant provides very solid survivability

Jana.6831:

I just did it 4 times, so it isn’t false but you are doing something false. End of story.

ETA: You’re waiting too long at some point – it can’t be that I’m able to do it nearly every time (vanilla thief DA, CS, T) while you guys are claiming this is impossible.

As I said post a video, only way to see if, Eval is putting together a video showing it I would like to see a video of you doing it.

Good thing the dev in charge of the economy said he isn’t going to manipulate it anymore for the time being since he has manipulated it a lot up until recently.

And there are an abundance of easy ways to get hardened leather people just don’t want to put the time/effort to get them.

They shouldn’t extend these achievements, they were intended to get players to extensively test the maps while in Beta stage, that is it if you missed the highly visible 3 month window to get the achievement that falls on you individually to have had completed in that time frame.

^ this so OP now I can spam my opponents with disorienting noises.

In sPvp D/P and SB are dominant it provides the Thief with everything it needs, SB gives you the Mobility to outpace and rotate faster than any other weapon set and class, and D/P gives you burst, blind and Stealth all needed to help Thieves survive. Thieves are relegated to Decap and +1 we no longer are meant to 1v1 and Anet has stated such in streams.

If you choose a weapon set not having SB you will reduce your mobility greatly, in lower tiers you can play without SB but it will hinder your performance and contribution in higher tier play.

Right now for Condi D/D is the most Viable Condi set with SB alternate set, SB giving decent Aoe range Condi pressure on point and giving you mobility, P/D is showing to be pretty viable but is a little more punishing for Condi, but gives good kiting advantage.

You can use Staff as a viable Power option that is pretty gimmicky with Vault spam or can be used intelligently by leveraging the other skills which provide range blinds projectile reflects and so on with evades.

Eval.2371:

maddoctor.2738:

The question is what kind of support can a Thief provide? Might? We have PS Warriors. Quickness? We have Chronos.

Here is where I chime and point out thief is the only class that does not have a passive aura. Thief is also a class that has been struggling with party support and sustain. I honestly think a siphon as a aura, or siphon as a group mechanic would be an interesting and relevant way to make thief more attractive for groups and help out in other game modes.

Maybe revamp Venoms to be actual Auras.

Jana.6831:

You do know that I have 10+ k of hours on power D/D thief, right? I guess my camera movements are fluid and I wasn’t even trying to exploit anything, I was just leaping through my BP field. Sorry, but I don’t take “the normal camera is used as an exploit” that seriously. Exploits would be 5, maybe 6 HS max anyway and 4 is plenty already – I guess the problem is more on OH pistol than the camera.

I say it’s an exploit since that is Anets stance on using the camera that way, it’s just something that hasn’t been a priority of there’s to fix but with recent exploit fixes I feel like they will make it not function as it does now. And again if you can post videos of you doing the full 4 leaps without exploiting the camera to shorten HS travel distance I would love to see it

And I agree. Thief isn’t the only culprit with stealth abuser .

Jana.6831:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You can shorten it and still have some travel from HS if you didn’t rotate camera fast enough and still get 4 stacks but again that’s not the full HS length and is most often what happens when inexperienced players try to emulate the exploit.

Lol – alright then – have a nice day.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Yes I use Trickery, it’s not an issue of not having the Initiative it’s the actual time of the BP smoke field won’t last the length of 4 full distance HS.

Then try to noob down so it works for you.

I meant inexperienced as in players inexperienced with using BP/HS combo to stack stealth, since it does take practice to get it down properly, I wasn’t calling you an inexperienced player. I could have worded that better the first time.

Jana.6831:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Action camer isn’t what allows the HS stack it you can’t use Action camera to stack stealth 4 times with HS it’s how the camera manipulation allows the normal camera to shorten the HS distance to not leave the Bp field. It has been known as an exploit without the manipulation the most you can stack without it is 2 maybe three times but more time than not it is 2 max which is only 4-5 seconds of useable stealth, if they fix the camera exploit it will help with the abuse of stealth.

Having a hard time to understand what you’re trying to tell me “it’s not action camera, it’s action camera”
I just told you that I can leap through the field 4 times? And more isn’t possible anyway, except if using initative gain traits.
So what is the exploit?

I said it’s not the action camera it’s the camera, you know the actual base camera, it is not possible to do the exploit with action camera but with the normal camera it is

Can’t say it any more plainly.

stale.9785:

Dude – I hate to be that guy, but Spear of Justice is heavily telegraphed, (3/4 cast time, PLUS the animation), and it’s dodgeable.

Beyond that, what gameplay are you engaging in where a pull that leaves you mobile afterward is an issue? It’s not like you’re being stunned or hit with immobilize after being pulled, you’ve simply lost your gap.

This is coming across as someone who got beaten by a guardian, and is blaming is doing the standard forum "I lost, therefore “opponent” is too powerful. NERF!" whining.

IE: Rock is too powerful, Paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors.

Seems like you don’t know the skill it’s 1/4 sec not 3/4, it’s not that highly telegraphed especially with all of the seizure inducing visual effects most classes emit from all the Aoe spam, and the initial part is dodgeable but the pull is not, with rider effects on top of the pull i.e. Unblockable, Burning and cripple, and the fact that it is the most reliable pull out there.

Jana.6831:

Eval.2371:

The first one is simple, don’t allow conditions to affect an enemies while you are in stealth or an invuln state.

The second one anet’s hinted at, and wouldn’t be surprised to see if they force all skills to jump their full range rather than the camera being able to reduce it. Simply put the majority of theifs would only be able to get 2 stacks of stealth.

The first is more than likely not going to happen the second probably will tho.

Without action camera and with full leaps, I as D/P noob, can leap through smoke field 4 times. It’s not a camera issue. Not sure if action camera really lets people leap through it more often as initiative is a limiting factor. Those using action camera might be able to leap through it 5 times.

The problem here is that there’s no thief dev and that they let the combat aspect of this game detoriate for too long, it will be a lot of effort to fix that. If we had a thief dev none of the latest “nerf thief” cries would’ve worked – just saying: they’re losing more and more players because they’re listening to what people with serious L2P issues have to say.

Action camer isn’t what allows the HS stack it you can’t use Action camera to stack stealth 4 times with HS it’s how the camera manipulation allows the normal camera to shorten the HS distance to not leave the Bp field. It has been known as an exploit without the manipulation the most you can stack without it is 2 maybe three times but more time than not it is 2 max which is only 4-5 seconds of useable stealth, if they fix the camera exploit it will help with the abuse of stealth.

Gw2 had great customizable stats originally but “it was too hard to balance”

Right now you can use a variant of the Meta build I took some inspiration from Redeemers S/D and D/P build recently and I find it to be very versatile using Mara Armor with Scrapper Runes , zerker trinks and zerker weapons. It provides damage mitigation and both weapon sets give you all the tools you need for most match ups, and swapping between the two frequently helps throw opponents off. You lose SB but it’s a small price to be better at fighting almost everything, the only class to not die to it is Troll bunker druid in WvW, but you won’t die to them either.

Jana.6831:

DeceiverX.8361:

It still doesn’t justify any of it, nor take the fire from those saying stealth as it currently is trivializes a lot in combat on daredevil – because it absolutely does, and they’re not wrong for saying there’s a ton of reward for next to no opportunity cost.

You’ll never not see the daredevil played, unless ANet massively power-creeps their next elites every time they come up with a new one, or massively nerfs daredevil and buffs core thief and nerfs half of the rest of what was released in HoT.

Is stealth not more a problem of D/P than of DrD?
D/P has got too much access to stealth, rune of the trapper should be removed, all classes should be somehow tied to stealth or thief unbound and if that’s not possible reveal skills should be removed.
DrD is insane when looking at core thief, yes. Anet brought themselves into a very difficult situation with HoT.
I recently created a free account and could play happily ever after, especially if the elites aren’t in some form required. Another problem is: They took away the game a lot of people loved.
It might have worked out as planned if they had a proper balance team before june 2015 and created a line all sets can use. I’m curious how they’ll get out of it actually.

ETA: And btw I’m not opposed to buying my free account. It would be cool to have some help against stalkers though as I’m deperately trying to get rid of mine.
But you see this is another problem anet face. It’s not just the core players who still haven’t got HoT, it’s also the free players – and I’d have to say that they are very generous with free accounts.

They shouldn’t tie stealth to anymore classes, that would cause more problems than anything, Thief was designed at a conceptual level to rely on stealth as a defensive mechanic, when they started giving more stealth to classes that do not require it but can abuse it causes issues like Scrapper and Druid who do not lack in sustain or damage mitigation to warrant getting as much stealth as they do.

And you can’t remove Stealth from being tied to Thief since it is built into the very core of Thief.

Now they do need to address how Stealth does interact with conditions, and with Stealth Stacking.

Mikhael.2391:

I couldnt be bothered to read all of this defending of stealth. No class should be able to do damage while in perma stealth and thats it, stop complaining of how thief would be bad etc etc coz best thiefs i know dont run that broken build. It does not require skill (if any of u thiefs think ur that good) its a simple matter of a "legal"exploit.

This post wasn’t about perma stealth Thieves sorry you couldn’t actually read the post.

Silverkey.2078:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Those builds rely on the multiple hit attacks from critting more often where it wil beeat out berserker damage/burst, I know P/P and S/P thieves benefit the most from Assassins Amulet in pvp, especially since those builds run CS that allows for really big burst from Unload and Pistol Whip, and those builds have been seeing a rise in use lately.

Ok I think I get your point. Not really if you have multiple hits, since then you start to get statistics and berserker will beat assassin. But single big hits like backstab, yes, you would rather have reliable crits, even if they are slightly weaker. I guess that is why some thieves use rune of the daredevil.

Thieves that run CS benefit greatly from Assassins stats since it increases ferocity and fury uptimes for them which provide bigger damage in Spvp for quick bursts I have compared the exact same p/p and S/P builds with zerker assassins and Marauders and Assassins pulls out a lot higher burst

Those builds rely on the multiple hit attacks from critting more often where it wil beeat out berserker damage/burst, I know P/P and S/P thieves benefit the most from Assassins Amulet in pvp, especially since those builds run CS that allows for really big burst from Unload and Pistol Whip, and those builds have been seeing a rise in use lately.

First thing Assassin fills a niche role that Beeserker doesn’t, it helps for builds that rely on multiple hit attacks I.e Unload, Pistol whip, hundred blades, Rapid fire and so on, these aren’t " meta"and don’t see much use but what you are suggesting kills what little diversity there is. Just because you find no use for it does not mean there is no use for it.

Yes they should introduce more amulets it will increase diversity