Reducing the amount of stealth u can stack would hurt a lot in pvp, and that would require anet to buff thieves into the amount where they can take equal or 1v1 fights.
The easier it is to track a thief, the easier it is to rotate doesn’t matter what kind of mobility you have when they know where you are or when you are coming. hence stealth stacking is a must in spvp. Or big compensations to make thief some god 1v1er/sustain in smaller fights.
If you feel its mostly in wvw or whatever then i hope for your sake anet splits the stealthing mechanics so the nerfs applies in wvw and not in spvp
Except Anet has 0 interest in making thief any viable in 1v1 situations. In fact, last thing i remember from them was that they don’t want thief be strong in any 1v1 fights because of their mobility and ability to +1 (because clearly other classes can’t do it lol).
You are correct about why thieves aren’t allowed to be strong in even fights. The problem I’ve noticed from the other side is that thief mobility is no longer that special post HoT. Sind says it best….you have to stack stealth to beat get a significant jump to a node over the person guarding it. HoT gave ALL classes such extra mobility that even a vigilant DH can prevent the decap on most maps.
As for the fella saying I main a dp thief….no. I don’t play thief but main mesmer. Was forced to learn all I could about thieves during the brief time when I was hard countered.
Funnily enough I mostly played power necro when climbing to legend last season. The build I played is pretty janky, but it was a fun change of pace and ended up being a bit better than I expected.
Depending on the amount of condi builds on the enemy team I would swap in plague signet, and if the enemy comp was super condi heavy I would swap SR for curses to get the extra plague signet proc as well.
Not trying to say power necro is top tier or anything but it was good enough to win games with and pretty fun to play.
A Red post in the pvp forums!!!! Showing he plays!!!! Is this real life????
But for reals anything is possible for the previous seasons of ranked, it was Meta/certain builds had easier time than the non but the others could still be used for profit depending on the skill of the pilot, more polishing needs to happen and bringing underwhelming options up to viability on a lot of classes
The S is fine the D is the problem. Read into that what you will.
…. you and Jana with these comments…..
“buffing the /D” is never a bad idea but it seems to be the prevalent concept for the Thief forum lately. Dancing Dagger feels more like a Halloween tonic than a skill although I like the bounce. CnD just feels like it a part of Stealth, I forget it’s own skill sometimes since I just use Black Powder for stealth which I mostly use for traveling.
So basically people are salty that a prestige item is actually prestigious, rather than dirt common like the open world legendries.
This game’s entire progression system is cosmetics based. (since the devs don’t want vertical progression creep) At the end of the day some cosmetics have to be exclusive for the devs to maintain any kind of meaningful reward system.
Now you will get Astralpoling saying then it should have been a skin and not a legendary that they get as their reward…..
That said I really do not see an issue with the ICD on stealth attacks nor with Aegis/blocks dodges and the like. We deal with these in any case as thieves It does require more well thought out attacks but I do not see this as a problem.
Going stealth is typically an expensive proposition for a thief and misses for whatever reason on a stealth attack are costly. Priming RS with BV or using it with a stealth Steal and Bountiful make it better. However on its own that ICD will often see the trait go to waste against a good player that knows to block, dodge, etc a couple seconds after a thief goes stealth.
Hitting from stealth became far more skill and luck based with that ICD and this trait relies on that. Just makes it a had sell for me. Course I find SA to under perform compared to other trait lines these days but that is of course a personal opinion.
To play this efficiently you have to accept there will be misses and in fact bait the enemy to expend those dodges and blocks so that your RS becomes more effective. We do this already with power builds that do not use stealth and as theives we see many of those attacks blocked or evaded. There no real difference here as far as that goes outside what needed to enter stealth.
Again I have been using this mostly on a p/d condition build traited SA. Assume for the moment he takes Shadows rejuv instead. There no difference in the outcome of an attack. The enemy player is not going to increase his blocks or dodges just because I might be running RS. Futher to that you are going to enter stealth and attack far more often then he will be able to dodge or block you or no thief build would ever be able to kill an enemy player.
I assure you there no need to get Basi in this build. You are in and out of stealth so often a significant number of those attacks will succeed.
Many thieves still use steal and BT even though it can be avoided. RS is more effective then BT at boon removal.
I think the big benefit that P/D has going for it is that because Sneak Attack is multi-hit, so random one-off negation effects or very short term immunities/remainder effects of immunities/blocks are less prone to causing a failed source of damage and a trait not doing anything.
Frankly, I’m surprised not to see builds like D/P SA/Tr/DrD running around. This would enable benefits of BT and a pretty consistent RS from OOC stealth/re-accessible stealth and HT for re-tries on a failure/negated attack, and would let Daredevil take ID and use SE for cleansing. If anything, I think this build would bring more value to +1 than DA.
It’s still not something which can justify the ICD on stealth attacks and changes to BV, however. D/D and S/D are just screwed in this sense.
I ran the SA/Tri/DrD for a while, you lose out quite a bit from Damage between Exposed Weakness and Muug, as well as the lockdown of Panick Strike which allows you to more easily stick to your target.
Sure…….. right after PvE players can get GoB through playing PvE.
I still cannot believe that so many WvW players were so kittening hyped and had so many “justice” kittens when PvE players were forced to go WvW to get their legendary, and then you turn around and try to weasel out of doing PvE. You can’t have it both ways. You need to play more than a single game mode to get a legendary, simple and clean cut. No debate on this topic.
Oh you mean how they didn’t have to WVW at all for GoB for years? And 5-8 hours of WvW does not equate to the amount of Time WvW players have to spend in Pve just to get the same items. So yes the justification against all the complaints Pve players started were fully justified.
A map completion speedrun is 16 hours, it is barely more than the 8 hours you need for the gift of battle
Barely more? That is double the amount of time and if I use a booster and doing WvW dailies it’s almost triple the amount of time. Still a lot bigger investment especially now that you can just AFK farm GoB which cannot be said about GoE.
Map Completion gives you 2 GoE, so cut that time in half to see the effort that is required for each GoE from map completion. Its 8-10 hours. Which is equivalent to a WvW reward track without boosters. Its practically identical. And doesn’t change the fact that WvW players were going mad with excitement over PvE players being forced to play WvW. You can’t have the cake and eat it too. Either you can stick to one mode to get all the mats for a legendary gift, or you can’t. If you should get GoE through WvW then PvE players should get GoB through PvE. It so simple even a braindead zergling would understand.
It does not matter if it takes 4,8,16 or 32 hours. It is still a fraction of the total effort required to make the Tyria legendaries.
Yes but WvW have to put more into a gamemode they don’t enjoy…. while Pve players can afk farm essentially the equivalent gift in half half the amount of time. yet Pve players took it as the sky is falling when they removed the vendor for GoBs
You do realize that there are map completion trains every so often. Its the exact same zerg like behavior you are used to from WvW, and everything is extremely simple since so many people make all PvE events trivial. Its no different from running around the borderlands for 8 hours following your commander
Let’s dissect this a speed clear of Core throw is around 16-19 hours so that’s equivalent to using boosters to Speed farm Reward tracks. You can clear 4 GoBs in the time it takes to do one map clear. so you saying “Map completion gives 2 GoE, so cut that time in half” means it takes the same amount of time for me to farm 2 GoB as it does to farm 1 GoE! Oh and in WvW it can be AFK’d to completion while Map completion cannot.
And let’s look for years players got GoB without having to participate in WvW…..and every other portion of the Legendaries require Pve content this just cuts out one portion, since to craft a legendary from start to finish still needs the Pve collections, so don’t even to use the but Pve players have to do WvW, when Majority of the crafting the Legendary requires Pve content.
And sorry I am not a Zergling but nice try though…..
Again WvW players have to put in over double the effort in a game mode they don’t enjoy vs Pve players
Apparently this concept isn’t so simple you can’t understand it.
I also think that Infiltrator’s Return should be a breakstun or at least be usable while CCed like Steal, but that it should consume 3 initiative as a result. Not really sure why it should be unusuable while stunned.
It used to be useable while stunned years ago got nerfed on December 10 2013 because too many bads cried about it too much even though it wasn’t even a real Stunbreak.
As an average player I take offence to that. I earned my kills just as everyone else through practice and a positive attitude, not by being carried.
Then, contrary to what you think, you are most likely an above average player.
(i mean, honestly, just the fact that you’re reading the boards marks you as above average. Majority of players do not frequent boards, reddit, do not read guides of any kind, and if they even use a meta build, it’s because they happened to hear about it from a friend)
What’s your metric on this? Who are you to say who is or isn’t the average Gw2 player? You are making a lot of baseless assumptions that is very condescending to a lot of people.
It does not matter if it takes 4,8,16 or 32 hours. It is still a fraction of the total effort required to make the Tyria legendaries.
Yes but WvW have to put more into a gamemode they don’t enjoy…. while Pve players can afk farm essentially the equivalent gift in half half the amount of time. yet Pve players took it as the sky is falling when they removed the vendor for GoBs
yes the time it takes to get map completion is not worth mentioning if you include the time it takes to get all other ingredients. The average person probably needs 400 hours for a legendary, so it would be less than 5% of the total time required for a legendary. And doing one map completion gives you two gifts, so you spend even less time on map completion per legendary.
If I wanted Two GoBs I can speed farm them at 4 hrs each, I can farm 4 of them in the time it takes to speed clear I whole map completion…. all while being semi AFK.
Sure…….. right after PvE players can get GoB through playing PvE.
I still cannot believe that so many WvW players were so kittening hyped and had so many “justice” kittens when PvE players were forced to go WvW to get their legendary, and then you turn around and try to weasel out of doing PvE. You can’t have it both ways. You need to play more than a single game mode to get a legendary, simple and clean cut. No debate on this topic.
Oh you mean how they didn’t have to WVW at all for GoB for years? And 5-8 hours of WvW does not equate to the amount of Time WvW players have to spend in Pve just to get the same items. So yes the justification against all the complaints Pve players started were fully justified.
A map completion speedrun is 16 hours, it is barely more than the 8 hours you need for the gift of battle
Barely more? That is double the amount of time and if I use a booster and doing WvW dailies it’s almost triple the amount of time. Still a lot bigger investment especially now that you can just AFK farm GoB which cannot be said about GoE.
Sure…….. right after PvE players can get GoB through playing PvE.
I still cannot believe that so many WvW players were so kittening hyped and had so many “justice” kittens when PvE players were forced to go WvW to get their legendary, and then you turn around and try to weasel out of doing PvE. You can’t have it both ways. You need to play more than a single game mode to get a legendary, simple and clean cut. No debate on this topic.
Oh you mean how they didn’t have to WVW at all for GoB for years? And 5-8 hours of WvW does not equate to the amount of Time WvW players have to spend in Pve just to get the same items. So yes the justification against all the complaints Pve players started were fully justified.
I was not around for the original flanking strike (I primarily played ranger then), but I will say the current one is very inconsistent on its after casts.
For example if you flank strike and try and follow it with the larcenous strike there is huge after cast on flanking strike. This also applies to bound, cloaking dagger and tactical strike. However, if you dash, auto attack, or throw dancing dagger there is no after cast component to the skill. It makes certain interactions feel really clunky and bad.
Flanking strike feels pretty clunky (this feels odd to say a s/p player). Thematically I love the weapon set, but it functionally does not work. Flanking strike is one of the reasons I avoid this set. I would have to guess the much like the difference between rangers stalker strike traited and untraited when it had that functionality would be much similar to the old and new flanking strike?
The original Flanking Strike was a single skill that cost 4 Initiative that hit twice and stole 1 boon, the only problem it did have was a pathing issue, if the would bring back the original Flanking Strike but with the pathing fix it wouldn’t be OP or UP.
I love S/D it has received quiet a few Nerfs since it’s prime, but Anet did do it service with smoothing out some of the aftercasts which sped up the AA chain and made it a little less clunky, it does need a little more love to be a viable weaponset in all game modes. I do use it with D/P in WvW as my main Set, it provides superior in combat mobility than SB for the slight reduction in ooc mobility, as well as much needed boonstrip against certain match ups..
I agree that another shave to Sword AA aftercasts will help it immensely.
I think they could shave 1 Ini off the Flanking strike and it would not make that chain OP, your idea does have merit since if the attack doesn’t land it’s a full wasted Initiative.
Infiltrator Strike would see a lot of love if it was increased to 900 units, but I don’t hunk that will ever happen since it has never been Touched since the early days of the game.
On top of your proposal I believe a rework of CnD is in need I am not certain what to do for it, and it is a big point of contention.
There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.
Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.
Anyone whose ever built a guild hall—I should know I’ve built three and a half, knows that when you build one its 1-3 guys(and/or girls) spending their own small fortunes, grinding to death and breaking their backs to build the hall and some intermittent donations from ‘the other guys’ in the guild, not that the other donations aren’t greatly appreciated and very much needed (VERY) but if you knew anything— guild halls are carried by their creators/builders. It’s not as simple as asking someone to donate a bunch of almost an 1g item that you need almost 1500 of to complete all the upgrades in the guild.
I guess we have had different guild experiences most of the guilds I have been a part of have always had a majority of the active players donate to the guild halls since their inception, the Leaders and a few officers normally have a vested nature towards them yes, and you don’t have ask for a bunch just put out hey we are working on this upgrade these items are needed, can anyone help, normally it gets some help.
Reducing the amount of stealth u can stack would hurt a lot in pvp, and that would require anet to buff thieves into the amount where they can take equal or 1v1 fights.
The easier it is to track a thief, the easier it is to rotate doesn’t matter what kind of mobility you have when they know where you are or when you are coming. hence stealth stacking is a must in spvp. Or big compensations to make thief some god 1v1er/sustain in smaller fights.
If you feel its mostly in wvw or whatever then i hope for your sake anet splits the stealthing mechanics so the nerfs applies in wvw and not in spvp
My request is in good faith that they would actually try to fix some of what they broke with Thief, do we have any reason to expect they would? No, hell they may just Nerf it even more, but when they relegate a class to doing +1/decap when any class can do that almost as easily with the amount of mobility and stealth that has been handed out to other classes, something has got to give.
Ever since HoT you haven’t seen Thief in any competititve sense in any of the Tournaments(there were a couple but those teams never went very far), yes Thief can do decent in Ranked the last few seasons but that’s easy enough in a gamemode where almost everyone was artificially boosted to tiers they shouldn’t have been in and with no organization.
OK let’s debunk this again. D/P is not the best weapon set for thieves. That title belongs to staff. In fact I don’t think D/P directly counters ANY class in this in the entire game.
Now I’m assuming we got your typical D/D enthusiasts once again making the push to nerf D/P, but D/D is performing perfectly fine and needs no buffs period.
Now the rest of the people prolly play Sword….sorry but nuking D/P ain’t going on help ya. The devs needed to kill your favorite play style to make room for daredevil.
Also your supposed change would kill Shadow Refuse. An entire skill destroyed for no reason. I don’t even play this class but why am I the one identifying this?
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
First off let’s see what classes D/P hard counters, Non Mm Reapers, Thieves other than D/D DB spammers, even your amazing Staff thief will die to D/p, Revs get eaten alive by it especially now, Staff is highly telegraphed and a very clunky weapon leaving the thief open to a lot of punishment on most skills. And staff doesn’t directly counter any build it only directly counters bad players.
Again I am not a D/D enthusiast not in the slightest.
Shadow Refuge was killed a while ago I also proposed changes to SR a few days ago to combat this. and I said game wide so every form of stealth not Just Thief Stealth
Ps Stealth stacking is useless and highly underused in Pvp.
Thief counters non MMO necro not D/P. Revs die to all thieves.
The ONLY reason you have to nerf D/P is because it counters over thief weapon sets……
WTF
So you want to nerf your own class only because you refuse to use a,specific weapon set
ROFLMAO
I cant even….
Did I ever say what weaponset I use? No? Interesting….
It’s still a buff and I actually use dancing dagger now.
The problem still is that at least D/D is a pure melee set and can’t survive melee.
But that’s stuff we’ve went through for ages and anet still thinks that MOAR DAMAGE is the answer.
Wasn’t talking about the buff, mind defaulted to gutter……
What’s sad is I think this game will just keep implementing powercreep instead of keeping it in check. But hey hopefully they apply the power creep to underused Weapons like S/D I would love more than anything to see that more viable for the pvp wise in WvW it does ok but still al little lackluster
Dont take this the wrong way but I dont really think you know anything about staff. It was obvious from when u initially started to bash it. I didnt get staff hype initially either, I initially dropped it and restarted using it once I learned about its potential. If ur up for some duels after my exams, i can show u (although im not the greatest duelist). Its a defensive weapon. I know u will steal on me, I know you will 3 me, which makes it very ez to counter attack. Not with vault, very few people know how to use vault, but just the staff weapon in general counters the thieves that 3,4,1 on d/p.
Just out of curiosity, how far did u get in pvp? I noticed in lower tiers u dont even need to stealth but in higher tiers, u gotta do some awsome kiting and juking to get a proper decap because if their home guarder is competent, they will make it hell. I sometimes reroll to guard just to troll enemy thieves on their decaps.
Now I never had a problem with trapper thieves or ghost thieves although i’ve seen qq on the forums. From my experience, you do not want to balance a game on the bad players. You want to balance them on good players. Balancing on crapper players is what brought thieves here in the first place with all this power creep. Look at top tier players and no one complains about ghost thieves. Balance should be around good to top tier players, not players who installed the game last week.
And finally, they don’t know how to balance thieves. Nerfing us more wont teach them that. Your expecting too much from anet’s balance team. There is no promise here. All we know is it will hurt thieves only set that is viable in PvP and nothing else. Maybe the will buff thief, maybe they will buff d/p even more, who know, it’s anet. If it were up to me to choose whether or not my main class might get a buff, I wouldn’t take it because its too much of a gamble even though i really want more builds and weapons that work.
I always reached the last Tier of Diamond each season (except S1 I didn’t play in the bunker Meta after the first few days) , I Also roam all the time in WvW again no issues there . I have played with Staff quite a bit but never liked the playstyle it was very clunky even after quiet a few weeks using it, even with out using Vault it is too predictable, the only thing it has of value is Staff 2 and Steal.
If you want we can duel I am always game for that just let me know. I am not saying I am the greatest player but I have never had an issue against many Staff Thief players normally what kills me is I make a mistake.
I have lost almost all hope in the balance team when it comes to this class as well as a few others, but sometimes I feel like if we can give them decent options they won’t make uncalled for or knee jerk reaction Nerfs.
I dont play mes but wouldnt they and engis be able to stealth better than us if this did happen?
No, they are subject to CDs if they are in stealth and tried to use another stealth skill it would have the ICD as well so say a Mesmer tried to spam Prestige and Decoy while in CS, they would only get one of the stealths not both, Engies would get less stealth from Stealth Gyro due to this as well. It’s only one sec on stealth application so unless you are trying to spam stealth stacking it won’t have any real affect in Combat
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
Sorry to say but this is totally wrong. Staff is good in some ways and so is d/p. Staff is a better duelling weapon and d/p is better at +1ing and stealthing for a decap. D/p DOES NOT counter staff. Staff is only highly telegraphed and clunky when you dont know how to use it and if ur spamming the skills. Otherwise, I would say staff > D/P and requires more skill. The only better thing about D/p is probably the headshots with PI and access to stealth. I know thief isn’t the strongest but as a wvw and pvper, thief is fine. D/p is probably the most viable in PvP and if u nerf the stealth, you lose decaps and you would probably make thieves even less viable.
If you want to nerf ghost thieves or trapper thieves, then nerf those builds. Mayb reveal on condi, or nerf trap stealth. There are many options. This sounds a lot like ur looking for an excuse to weaken D/P and I think shadowstep is totally right. It doesn’t make much sense imo. They dont need to nerf D/P, it’s not super op. Other weapon sets are weak and they should bring those in line.
Anyways, I dont agree, just my opinion.
The fact that all I have to do to kill a Staff thief is press 3 and 1 tells me that D/P counters Staff pretty hard it doesn’t take any other skills or trying to even kite it the happens in high tier pvp as well as in WvW.
Nerfing stealth just Nerf the Decaps you don’t have to Stack stealth to be good at decapping the most you need is two Stacks and to use your mobility. I’m not wanting this Nerf in a vacuum I am asking for this change so they can revert some of the needless Nerfs/hardcounters they have introduced to Thief because people cry Stealth too Op!!
If they applied Reveal on Condi then D/P would be nerfed even harder than my suggestion because of Dagger AA, traps aren’t what keep ghost thief in perma stealth it is just D/P BP HS.
Honestly, if u can hit a thief with 3, then its a bad thief. 3 is so ez to avoid on any thief build that it sounds like ur talking about some really crappy players. I generally use staff/dp when duelling tbh but I probably stick to staff more than D/P. Staff isnt very viable im pvp though since u cant +1 as well since they see you coming and u cant decap as well either which brings me to my other point.
If your fighting a druid lets say on legacy. If ur playing on legend, he will guard home. What generally happens is u +1 mid and ur looking to decap far. The druid will be staff or bow spamming on the platform towards their home and and use their staff 3 to go back home when they see u running towards home. Only way would be to have enough stealth to make it or take the long way in which case he might have noticed u missing anyways.
This gets worse with revs and guards cuz then they can JI and phase traversal if ur not stealth. Those extra bits of stealth really make a difference here. On top of that, ur usually alrdy low on initiative from either stealth or bow 5 and this would only make that worse.
I still dont understand whats so scary about perma stealth from D/P. If they perma stealthing, they either have no initiative or they’re using everything for stealth and thus lacking utility which usually puts u on top if u know what ur doing.
Again, there are many other alternatives than this…
Whenever I have faced a Staff Thief no matter where all it really takes is AA and SS, very rarely do I actually have to work for the kills, they are too predicatable and the aftercast are real on that weapon which opens them up so much.
Permastealthing is not scary, especially in Pvp but I have noticed I don’t need To stack stealth ever in Pvp unless I am running an SA build for kittens and giggles. What is scary is that I see it going to cause issues due to all the QQ about it in WvW, since very bad players are dying to Ghost Thieves.
If they buff Thief without touching Stealth it will get a lot of backlash from the other professions, it’s happened whenever thieves did get a decent buff, if they can do a buff to other sets or traits without having to touch stealth good for them but stacking stealth will always be one of the reasons Thieves miss out on certain aspects of the game.
OK let’s debunk this again. D/P is not the best weapon set for thieves. That title belongs to staff. In fact I don’t think D/P directly counters ANY class in this in the entire game.
Now I’m assuming we got your typical D/D enthusiasts once again making the push to nerf D/P, but D/D is performing perfectly fine and needs no buffs period.
Now the rest of the people prolly play Sword….sorry but nuking D/P ain’t going on help ya. The devs needed to kill your favorite play style to make room for daredevil.
Also your supposed change would kill Shadow Refuse. An entire skill destroyed for no reason. I don’t even play this class but why am I the one identifying this?
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
First off let’s see what classes D/P hard counters, Non Mm Reapers, Thieves other than D/D DB spammers, even your amazing Staff thief will die to D/p, Revs get eaten alive by it especially now, Staff is highly telegraphed and a very clunky weapon leaving the thief open to a lot of punishment on most skills. And staff doesn’t directly counter any build it only directly counters bad players.
Again I am not a D/D enthusiast not in the slightest.
Shadow Refuge was killed a while ago I also proposed changes to SR a few days ago to combat this. and I said game wide so every form of stealth not Just Thief Stealth
Ps Stealth stacking is useless and highly underused in Pvp.
Sorry to say but this is totally wrong. Staff is good in some ways and so is d/p. Staff is a better duelling weapon and d/p is better at +1ing and stealthing for a decap. D/p DOES NOT counter staff. Staff is only highly telegraphed and clunky when you dont know how to use it and if ur spamming the skills. Otherwise, I would say staff > D/P and requires more skill. The only better thing about D/p is probably the headshots with PI and access to stealth. I know thief isn’t the strongest but as a wvw and pvper, thief is fine. D/p is probably the most viable in PvP and if u nerf the stealth, you lose decaps and you would probably make thieves even less viable.
If you want to nerf ghost thieves or trapper thieves, then nerf those builds. Mayb reveal on condi, or nerf trap stealth. There are many options. This sounds a lot like ur looking for an excuse to weaken D/P and I think shadowstep is totally right. It doesn’t make much sense imo. They dont need to nerf D/P, it’s not super op. Other weapon sets are weak and they should bring those in line.
Anyways, I dont agree, just my opinion.
The fact that all I have to do to kill a Staff thief is press 3 and 1 tells me that D/P counters Staff pretty hard it doesn’t take any other skills or trying to even kite it the happens in high tier pvp as well as in WvW.
Nerfing stealth just Nerf the Decaps you don’t have to Stack stealth to be good at decapping the most you need is two Stacks and to use your mobility. I’m not wanting this Nerf in a vacuum I am asking for this change so they can revert some of the needless Nerfs/hardcounters they have introduced to Thief because people cry Stealth too Op!!
If they applied Reveal on Condi then D/P would be nerfed even harder than my suggestion because of Dagger AA, traps aren’t what keep ghost thief in perma stealth it is just D/P BP HS.
@martin you want easy 25 stacks of Might? Run P/P….
You two do realize why Thief doesn’t get any of those things is the mobility/stealth/damage and with all the people crying about perma stealth they will do something worse, this is a reasonable change that affects all classes that use/abuse stealth. But I guess you don’t think about things.
I want the powercreep reduced game wide, and for Thieves to actually get some decent stuff but because of what Thief has access to they will never give anything, all this ICD will do is stop Stealth stack for perma stealth but you dont seem to grasp that concept.
Will any of these suggestion be considered? No they don’t look in these forums, and they will most likely guy SA even more for the next ES, and people will most likely hate stealth even more.
OK let’s debunk this again. D/P is not the best weapon set for thieves. That title belongs to staff. In fact I don’t think D/P directly counters ANY class in this in the entire game.
Now I’m assuming we got your typical D/D enthusiasts once again making the push to nerf D/P, but D/D is performing perfectly fine and needs no buffs period.
Now the rest of the people prolly play Sword….sorry but nuking D/P ain’t going on help ya. The devs needed to kill your favorite play style to make room for daredevil.
Also your supposed change would kill Shadow Refuse. An entire skill destroyed for no reason. I don’t even play this class but why am I the one identifying this?
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
Nah, it is all WvW heroes thinking that other modes should suffer for the sake of their beloved duels. Thief will always be nerfed, people always will cry about class because it relies on mechanics that your average Joe doesn’t like to deal with – evades and stealth. I have seen people asking to delete the class because they don’t fight “honorably”.
The design of Stealth access D/P has access to has always been one of the main reasons for all the Nerfs and hardcounters being implemented.
Keep telling yourself that. Clearly acro also got nerfed because of dp lel.
I’m talking recently, all the big Acro Nerfs happened years ago and was due to the actual perma evade S/D builds and to make room for an Elite Spec.
let’s look at all the Nerfs implemented for D/P stealth stacking the first and foremost Culling was abolished because of Thief, 5 stack Stealth limit, revealed being introduced, Black Powder Nerf, revealed being introduced on class skills, 2/3 of classes having reveal skills e of which are AoE reveals not needing a target, the gutting of a lot of Stealth traits from SA, ICD on Stealth attacks, Self Reveal on SR.
So go on, I have been with Thief since launch only doing PvP and WvW this change wouldn’t affect any other build besides D/P builds that rely on stacking Stealth, then they can remove the stupid skills like revealed, revert the 1 sec ICD on stealth attacks and so on.
OK let’s debunk this again. D/P is not the best weapon set for thieves. That title belongs to staff. In fact I don’t think D/P directly counters ANY class in this in the entire game.
Now I’m assuming we got your typical D/D enthusiasts once again making the push to nerf D/P, but D/D is performing perfectly fine and needs no buffs period.
Now the rest of the people prolly play Sword….sorry but nuking D/P ain’t going on help ya. The devs needed to kill your favorite play style to make room for daredevil.
Also your supposed change would kill Shadow Refuse. An entire skill destroyed for no reason. I don’t even play this class but why am I the one identifying this?
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
Nah, it is all WvW heroes thinking that other modes should suffer for the sake of their beloved duels. Thief will always be nerfed, people always will cry about class because it relies on mechanics that your average Joe doesn’t like to deal with – evades and stealth. I have seen people asking to delete the class because they don’t fight “honorably”.
The design of Stealth access D/P has access to has always been one of the main reasons for all the Nerfs and hardcounters being implemented.
OK let’s debunk this again. D/P is not the best weapon set for thieves. That title belongs to staff. In fact I don’t think D/P directly counters ANY class in this in the entire game.
Now I’m assuming we got your typical D/D enthusiasts once again making the push to nerf D/P, but D/D is performing perfectly fine and needs no buffs period.
Now the rest of the people prolly play Sword….sorry but nuking D/P ain’t going on help ya. The devs needed to kill your favorite play style to make room for daredevil.
Also your supposed change would kill Shadow Refuse. An entire skill destroyed for no reason. I don’t even play this class but why am I the one identifying this?
Its time to embrace change and move along with the game.
p.s. stealth is hardly a problem in pvp from thieves.
First off let’s see what classes D/P hard counters, Non Mm Reapers, Thieves other than D/D DB spammers, even your amazing Staff thief will die to D/p, Revs get eaten alive by it especially now, Staff is highly telegraphed and a very clunky weapon leaving the thief open to a lot of punishment on most skills. And staff doesn’t directly counter any build it only directly counters bad players.
Again I am not a D/D enthusiast not in the slightest.
Shadow Refuge was killed a while ago I also proposed changes to SR a few days ago to combat this. and I said game wide so every form of stealth not Just Thief Stealth
Ps Stealth stacking is useless and highly underused in Pvp.
I’m hesitant to assume that this kind of change wouldn’t have unintended side effects. I would like it tested, however, to see if it improved the imbalance between D/P and the other weapons.
They will have to rework some traits like Shadow Rejuvination and so on though I see being the most apparent issue when implementing this
Also a lot of the arguments I see for the adding of or reducing the amount of MC needed are under the assumption that all players want to make all items with Max, which is highly unfeasible and highly unlikely to ever occur.
There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.
Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.
That doesn’t address the issue that there just aren’t enough MC entering the game to make these items feasible for more players to craft. I’m not saying the items should be cheap, but the current amount of MC needed for crafting is way too high compared to how few enter the game (and you cannot farm more of them). Best solution is to just lower the amount of recipes that need mystic coins, and reduce the number of mystic coins needed in non legendary related recipes (excluding those few skins that are supposed to cost thousands of gold, like that bat shoulder one from halloween).
I mean seriously, just to craft all of the non legendary weapons that require MC would take 4,340 MC. That is more than 173 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 coins per month (which ~5 MC forge dailies a month), and still requires more than 144 months worth of players’ daily logins if you assume 30 coins per month per player. Either way that is over 12 years of players’ daily logins worth to get non legendary weapons for a single player. Note that this is just weapons, no feasts of food recipes, no GH upgrades, no legendary weapons. And it still requires this much players’ daily logins worth of MC. How can you justify that this is balanced? I mean the game has only been out for 4 years.
There are 26 legendary weapons in the game currently, and there are multiple people in the game with all 26 skins (Not sure how many because GW2 efficiency account crawling is offline right now due to a problem with APIs). For every player that has each of those skins, even if we assume that 1/3 of the mystic clovers in total (which is an absurdly high amount at 668) were obtained through chests of loyalty and PvP/WvW rewards, that still means that these weapons would require 1334 Mystic Clovers to be forged from MC, which would require ~4,002 MC for the clovers, and an additional 1,250 for the 5 HoT legendaries. Which would require 5252 MC to forge these 26 weapons. That is 210 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 MC per player, 17.5+ years worth of players’ daily logins were required for each person who has all of the legendary skins. This insane ratio is just not sustainable. Especially when you stop and realize that these are only some of the uses for MC. They are also used extensively in feasts of food recipes and GH upgrades. How can you honestly believe that enough are entering the game to satisfy all of the uses for MC? I just don’t buy it.
Again, this isn’t an argument against high price on MC, this is an argument about the disconnect between how many are generated/coming into the game and how many are required for crafting. I only looked at weapon recipes. MC are just required for far too many recipes and in far too high of quantities. Anet needs to address this, or show numbers that prove this wrong (such numbers would include, but not be limited to, how many people have X skins that require MC to craft, how many people have Y legendary skins, how many players plan on getting skins that require MC and how many do they plan on getting?). And this will just get worse when leg armor is finally finished and released. There is a huge disconnect with MC, and simply letting the market go to kitten will not fix this because it won’t solve the problem of far too many are required for crafting considering their timegated nature.
One yes you can Farm them you have a chance on Mystic Clover crafting to get either 5 or 50 respectively from 1 or 10 Mystic Coin it is RNG just like trying to farm hardened leather… is it efficient no but you can farm them.
