I don’t consider it a valid “build choice” to pick a bad build.
I’m not saying you have to play one play style. There are bad zerkers. Some are also trying to learn to play damage builds. There are good players. Alot of the zerkers have done content already 20 times and the fun is seeing how fast you can do it. When I first do new content I take my time to do it and I’m sure most zerkers do. The reason people want zerkers is because it almost guarantees getting through certain content.
No matter how well you know mechanics there is some content that needs dps. If you don’t agree with me you pug cof path 2 and ac path 1 and 3 a bunch of times on lfg.
You will not get through burrows if you do not have dps and guarding mag is a nightmare w/o zerkers or close to it.
It goes something like this
LFG zerkers cof path 2 no skipping = 15-30mins
LFG cof path 2 =30-1h30mins after multiple wipes on mag, occasional fails on gather boulders.
LFG zerkes ac path 1 and 3= 30 mins-1hour
LFG path 3= 30mins to 2 hoursThere are some dungeon paths i would not request zerkers because they are less forgiving to weaker players.
Anyone can play how they want and I will still run dungeons with you I dont care.
ac is a terrible example, you can’t crit burrows, so ptv performs the exact same as zerker against burrows
It is our fault for believing on support roles.
This game is just about zerg and dps.
No need for support on 99% of the game.
So go zerker or waste your time.
Remember that video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI
Estimated team composition :
1 support Mesmer. Portal, Blink, Signet of Inspiration, Feedback, Timewarp
1 support Ranger. Spirit of Frost, Spotter, Call of the Wild
1 support Warrior. Banners, Empower Allies, FGJ, Long duration Fire combo field with longbow
2 DPS thieves, kinda. Blast finishers in fire fields as support.Support roles exist, it’s just that they are expected to deal some DPS themselves too so they gear in zerk stuff.
That’s not support. That’s just maximizing damage enhancement boons. I don’t see a anything on that list like regen, water fields, protection, aegis, reflection, etc. that I would actually classify as support in the classical sense that nearly everyone else in this thread means.
I’m sure you can find a video for yourself of a fotm 48 speed run where I assure you everything except for possibly water fields are utilized.
Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.
If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.
lol, you’ve resorted to emotional arguments now?
Look, I personally feel that the gw2 community, should they actually make the slightest of effort can all wear berserker. It’s an easy game. It’s very easy to learn how to use. I trust that players are intelligent enough to spend two minutes learning what attacks to soak up and which attacks to evade.
And yet my trust is being soiled on because people are constantly making excuses so as to why people “can’t” use berserker gear. If you’re not using it because it makes you feel squishy, you’re just being lazy and not taking the time to learn how to use it (and it doesn’t take long to learn).
Make a solid argument why should 100% of GW2 players should use Berserker’s that’s not really because otherwise they are inconveniencing you. ANet doesn’t believes it so, nor I doubt any serious Berserker’s gear supporter with a logical mindset.
Sad thing is, Berserker’s gear is fine, but your comments do a strong disservice to your purported cause.
You need to do damage to kill the boss; zerker does more damage. Ergo, zerker is better.
The only measure of success in this game is the speed at which you do it, because actually completing pve content is guaranteed because of how easy it is. Therefore, zerker gear is a better choice for pve. Therefore, picking something other than zerker is a poor choice. Making good choices about your gear is part of being a good player.
That’s your definition of success. I’d say as long as you’re enjoying playing the game you’re doing good. I’d join a party of terribly skilled players wearing PVT gear that are actually fun to play with over a party with stuck up Berserkers obsessed with maximising efficiency any day of the week.
wearing zerk because it’s better and putting “lf zerkers hotw p1” is not “obsessed”
I don’t even ask for gear links, i just sigh to myself when I can tell people are not actual zerk and the run takes longer
Being terrible and refusing to improve is more selfish. Also stack in corner > DPS > Dodge is not hard pve content.
Why do you assume players who don’t wear Berserker gear are refusing to improve? Even so, what does gear have to do with player skill anyway? What makes a player in Berserker gear better than a player in PVT gear, skillwise?
Last time I played dungeon PUGs, most fights weren’t just ‘stand in corner and DPS’, but yeah…
The only measure of success in this game is the speed at which you do it, because actually completing pve content is guaranteed because of how easy it is. Therefore, zerker gear is a better choice for pve. Therefore, picking something other than zerker is a poor choice. Making good choices about your gear is part of being a good player.
Funny actually, my phantasms survive just fine. In fact, at Subject Alpha they’re probably more survivable than our actual party because they barely get hit for some reason.
And healing power is complete trash, even people who use it admit that it scales poorly.
alpha doesn’t kill illusions for whatever reason
If someone lacks the skill to do gw2 dungeons they should just quit playing. This game’s PvE has the lowest skill cap of any MMO’s PvE on the market. If you can’t look at a mob’s animation and dodge I question how you operate a motor vehicle or prepare dinner without burning your house down.
So, they should quit playing because they would slow down your dungeon run by a few minutes? That’s a pretty selfish attitude.
Also, I don’t know which MMOs you have played, but the few others I’ve played were way, way easier than Guild Wars 2.
Being terrible and refusing to improve is more selfish. Also stack in corner > DPS > Dodge is not hard pve content.
We never claimed they’re inferior, I just said they’re bad and selfish players because they’re using gear that isn’t contributing as much to a dungeon run as zerk [selfish] and increasing their own defensive stats because they need it as a crutch despite all of the content in the game being easy [bad].
What if, maybe, they aren’t skilled enough to go with full Berserker gear and keep themselves alive? I’d rather have a player who lacks the skill to survive in glass-cannon gear to go in defensive gear and play a more defensive role than for them to stick to glass-cannon gear and go downed in every fight.
If someone lacks the skill to do gw2 dungeons they should just quit playing. This game’s PvE has the lowest skill cap of any MMO’s PvE on the market. If you can’t look at a mob’s animation and dodge I question how you operate a motor vehicle or prepare dinner without burning your house down.
Armor (Toughness) becomes pretty much worthless after 2750 (33%) and by that point the protection (Also 33%) is like having an extra set of armor.
Honestly, protection needs nerfed to 15% of all damage. Toughness needs increased by double what it is now. Weakness needs to be -50% to Critical Bonus/Condition Damage.
Everyones health needs to be more normalized and everyone needs ways to sustain themselves better. (More healing, this game HAS no healers.)
We also need an absorb mechanic (elementalists / guardians / warriors maybe?) that absorbs damage directly so we don’t have to rely on dodges so much.
The point is, Toughness Sucks, Heavy Armor does not matter much at all!
he’s talking pve, where even if toughness had quadruple the effect it would still be pointless
Also op, thieves are useful in dungeons and do can as much damage as a warrior. In any dungeon without dredge, blinds are good utility as well.
(edited by Blix.8021)
the amount of damage you do can draw aggro too, I always got aggro on slavedriver when doing cof runs with people without full zerker
-Fighting zergs of enemies, which contain varying types of enemies
CoF 2 defending mag, still zerked down
-Making control effects important, for instance certain mobs cant take damage, they can only be controlled, and take dmg while controlled, or whatever interesting mechanic you want to put on it
The more a mob is unable to attack the better zerking is
-Making control important by creating a area that you have to keep mobs out of, or you die
My Guardian can still zerk while using staff/hammer and sanctuary
-Make WvW-like pve encounters, where you must defend a tower or keep or take a tower or keep against a massive amount of enemies
See above
Im not asking for removing the ability to zerk through things, I am asking for PvE to make it more beneficial to bring a balanced group, and you even just pointed it out, and made my point for me
the more a mob is unable to attack the better zerking is, control effects are there to support the damage effects
A balanced group is just a bunch of different classes all running zerker, though. Even if we had a dungeon where we had to heal, you could just bring a zerk ranger and a bunch of zerk wars and guards to blast his water field.
-Fighting zergs of enemies, which contain varying types of enemies
CoF 2 defending mag, still zerked down
-Making control effects important, for instance certain mobs cant take damage, they can only be controlled, and take dmg while controlled, or whatever interesting mechanic you want to put on it
The more a mob is unable to attack the better zerking is
-Making control important by creating a area that you have to keep mobs out of, or you die
My Guardian can still zerk while using staff/hammer and sanctuary
-Make WvW-like pve encounters, where you must defend a tower or keep or take a tower or keep against a massive amount of enemies
See above
I have 3 guardians with different builds and gears. My zerker guardian with a more dps oriented build does well in pve, while she is still quite supportive. But for the zerg in the Queen’s Pavilion my trusty pvt guardian with supersupportive build is best. Damage does not matter there, there are enough people dishing it out. But healing, buffing, condition removing and especially never dying – very useful.
uh, i’ve been running around in the zerg on my guard in full mf gear, and on my war in full zerk, you don’t need ptv gear, just need vigor to dodge around
You can use support skills and still use berserker gear.
lol a few lines of code to fix wvw
I want whatever you’re taking
I used to buy an alt an amulet or something every time i got enough, but alts are meh now because of once per day dungeons and world experience in wvw. Holding my laurels until I see how they change magic find
If you’re a noob figuring out how to play, then roll zerker anyway because it will force you to learn how to dodge and empasize which utility skills to bring.
If you’re bad at dodging, don’t bring defensive stats, bring defensive skills. I’d rather have a guardian in zerker gear with altruistic healing to cover for his mistakes than a guard in ptv to take an extra hit or two before going down. Or a warrior bringing endure pain to cover for a mistake while still using zerker.
Everyone owes it to his self to make a zerk warrior or zerk something. Even if I got bored with it after a couple runs it is fun to take out for a spin once in a while.
Totally agree with this!
It lets you know how much you’ve been relying on survivability stats IMO.
It’ll make you a better player or at least better dodger/evader, cause if try to take hits as a Zerk you’ll eat kitten real quick…..Once you become really good at evading mechanics, I cant think of a reason why you would roll any other setup, unless your group is so bad that have to support them the whole time…..
And again with the ‘if you’re not running zerker you must be bad’ mentality. Ugh!
non zerker choice =/= bad
kitten , all it means is that they choose to play a different way and that. is. their. right. You don’t have to play with them. They don’t have to play with you.
I can choose to sit in the back with a longbow at 1500 range with a bear pet, but it doesn’t mean that it is a good choice or that people should support bad choices.
Yet, if it doesnt affect you in any way…….why does it bother you?
Mind your own business, and other people will mind theirs. You play your way, they will play theirs. Problem solved. Why is this so hard to grasp?
It does effect me when people choose to play their class poorly. If I see a ranger in my groups not meleeing and dropping healing spring at the appropriate time, he will be kicked for not helping as much as he (easily) could be. I don’t get to play my warrior as a rifle warrior (I picked my charr warrior because I thought they looked cool in the cinematics with guns), so they don’t get to play a purposely poor playstyle, either. People that join my groups are expected to contribute as much as they can.
Then you should be more specific in your LFG info. Generally speaking people like that ranger, and people like myself don’t desire to play with people like you. We aren’t playing the game ‘to work.’
Some people actually play a Ranger to a ranged class. Amazing isn’t it? Nothing wrong with that.
Maybe they didnt opt to bring healing spring because they figured their teammates would take care of themselves, thats supposed to be what you’re supposed to do after all. Isnt it? Support is neither needed nor desired by the masses on here, crowing about being so awesome in their zerker gear.
chuckle Oh the irony.
Support is extremely desirable, just not healing power builds. Walls, reflects, pulls, pushes, condition cleanses, blinds, fields, finishers, are all wonderful support and can be done in zerker gear.
And can be done better in other gear types, and depending on which, without significant impact to the overall dps. Yes their are trade offs, however the game is not about just power through and getting to the next shiny for many of us.
They only time what someone else is wearing affects you is if you are in a group with them, as you have pointed out. This is remedied with clear LFG requirements as I pointed out. Other narrow minded individuals will play with you, other individuals like myself that really arent as judgmental will play with me. We bother each other not at all. So again, wheres the issue?
I take issue with players choosing to be bad. It’s like knowing about the existence of modern medicine and instead using voodoo. I would rather everyone play well and therefore expand the number of players who can join my groups, which I do properly advertise.
Everyone owes it to his self to make a zerk warrior or zerk something. Even if I got bored with it after a couple runs it is fun to take out for a spin once in a while.
Totally agree with this!
It lets you know how much you’ve been relying on survivability stats IMO.
It’ll make you a better player or at least better dodger/evader, cause if try to take hits as a Zerk you’ll eat kitten real quick…..Once you become really good at evading mechanics, I cant think of a reason why you would roll any other setup, unless your group is so bad that have to support them the whole time…..
And again with the ‘if you’re not running zerker you must be bad’ mentality. Ugh!
non zerker choice =/= bad
kitten , all it means is that they choose to play a different way and that. is. their. right. You don’t have to play with them. They don’t have to play with you.
I can choose to sit in the back with a longbow at 1500 range with a bear pet, but it doesn’t mean that it is a good choice or that people should support bad choices.
Yet, if it doesnt affect you in any way…….why does it bother you?
Mind your own business, and other people will mind theirs. You play your way, they will play theirs. Problem solved. Why is this so hard to grasp?
It does effect me when people choose to play their class poorly. If I see a ranger in my groups not meleeing and dropping healing spring at the appropriate time, he will be kicked for not helping as much as he (easily) could be. I don’t get to play my warrior as a rifle warrior (I picked my charr warrior because I thought they looked cool in the cinematics with guns), so they don’t get to play a purposely poor playstyle, either. People that join my groups are expected to contribute as much as they can.
Then you should be more specific in your LFG info. Generally speaking people like that ranger, and people like myself don’t desire to play with people like you. We aren’t playing the game ‘to work.’
Some people actually play a Ranger to a ranged class. Amazing isn’t it? Nothing wrong with that.
Maybe they didnt opt to bring healing spring because they figured their teammates would take care of themselves, thats supposed to be what you’re supposed to do after all. Isnt it? Support is neither needed nor desired by the masses on here, crowing about being so awesome in their zerker gear.
chuckle Oh the irony.
Support is extremely desirable, just not healing power builds. Walls, reflects, pulls, pushes, condition cleanses, blinds, fields, finishers, are all wonderful support and can be done in zerker gear.
Also people prefer everyone to be in melee, because then everyone is in range of one another to speed-res when someone makes a mistake and goes down. I would much rather res someone in zerk gear who made an error than waste time running back to res a selfish person in the back who isn’t with the rest of the party.
Everyone owes it to his self to make a zerk warrior or zerk something. Even if I got bored with it after a couple runs it is fun to take out for a spin once in a while.
Totally agree with this!
It lets you know how much you’ve been relying on survivability stats IMO.
It’ll make you a better player or at least better dodger/evader, cause if try to take hits as a Zerk you’ll eat kitten real quick…..Once you become really good at evading mechanics, I cant think of a reason why you would roll any other setup, unless your group is so bad that have to support them the whole time…..
And again with the ‘if you’re not running zerker you must be bad’ mentality. Ugh!
non zerker choice =/= bad
kitten , all it means is that they choose to play a different way and that. is. their. right. You don’t have to play with them. They don’t have to play with you.
I can choose to sit in the back with a longbow at 1500 range with a bear pet, but it doesn’t mean that it is a good choice or that people should support bad choices.
Yet, if it doesnt affect you in any way…….why does it bother you?
Mind your own business, and other people will mind theirs. You play your way, they will play theirs. Problem solved. Why is this so hard to grasp?
It does effect me when people choose to play their class poorly. If I see a ranger in my groups not meleeing and dropping healing spring at the appropriate time, he will be kicked for not helping as much as he (easily) could be. I don’t get to play my warrior as a rifle warrior (I picked my charr warrior because I thought they looked cool in the cinematics with guns), so they don’t get to play a purposely poor playstyle, either. People that join my groups are expected to contribute as much as they can.
Everyone owes it to his self to make a zerk warrior or zerk something. Even if I got bored with it after a couple runs it is fun to take out for a spin once in a while.
Totally agree with this!
It lets you know how much you’ve been relying on survivability stats IMO.
It’ll make you a better player or at least better dodger/evader, cause if try to take hits as a Zerk you’ll eat kitten real quick…..Once you become really good at evading mechanics, I cant think of a reason why you would roll any other setup, unless your group is so bad that have to support them the whole time…..
And again with the ‘if you’re not running zerker you must be bad’ mentality. Ugh!
non zerker choice =/= bad
kitten , all it means is that they choose to play a different way and that. is. their. right. You don’t have to play with them. They don’t have to play with you.
I can choose to sit in the back with a longbow at 1500 range with a bear pet, but it doesn’t mean that it is a good choice or that people should support bad choices.
… every single bit of damage in coe is dodgeable, why would you not want zerkers in your party?
It’s spelled “a lot.”
Daecollo, keep your stupid suggestions to the warrior forums, please.
… the servers you are fighting have people doing the living story too, so what’s the problem?
People can queue for wvw and do whatever they like. If people start queueing for WvW to have a tea party in SM, tough. You don’t get to dictate what people do in wvw because you’re a “hardcore wvw” player.
Oh, I forgot WvW was renowned for the quality of its loot. You got me there.
GvG is way more important to this game’s community than idiotic tower flipping, sorry
Good to see the gw2 community can keep up with the wow community’s irrational “I Quit” forum nerd-rage
The entire guild I am apart of on TC was disappointed when we saw that we were still matched up against BG and SOR Friday. Pretty much all of the main WvW guilds have decided to sit out of WvW and do fractals and other PvE stuff instead of give the other two servers free bags it would seem.
Most people only find WvW fun when they are winning, which is anet’s biggest design failure. Losing in spvp? Get a new game in a few minutes. Losing in WvW? Play a different game for a week because you can’t beat the enemy’s numbers.
Make defending and being outmanned more rewarding and fun than being in a giant circle-cap zerg and people will care less about losing.
Firstly, learn what an apostrophe is for. Secondly, transfer to a lower tier server.
hey [KWBH] i know you’re outnumbered, but stacking for fire fields 10 feet from an enemy zerg is not a good strategy
t1 NA: melandru
lets be honest here (i used to play on BG by the way) typically you have 70 people around you in tier 1 NA, and the only difficult fight youll face is vs 70 enemies… i dont think i have to tell you what happens when 140 people decide to go to the same spot but ill say it anyhow for everyone else’s benefit (who might not be playing in Tier 1 NA): SKILL LAG!
in otherwords soldier runes are useless here cause your shouts dont go off! nothing but your 1 attack does in fact!
therefore the passive melandru are better in the skill lag situation
Disclaimers:
If they’ve actually managed to fix the skill lag in t1 NA since i left then that would be a different story.
Also note that my advice does not apply to any other teir or matchup nessicarily (it is based on the assumption that skill lag and blobbing are predominating the matchup).
I was going to say soldier runes because they help the group as well as yourself, so multiple wars/guards running them can remove swaths of conditions, but that’s a good point about skill lag
We still have low damage.
We still have poor sustain (can be easilly kited/killed.)
We are still one of the hardest classes to play.This is lulzy coming from the highest damage, and one of the highest sustain class. It’s also the class that is widely considered to be ez-mode and faceroll.
Gaurdians/Rangers/Engineers/Thieves all have higher sustain.
Rangers have higher sustained damage, Guardians have higher Sustained Damage, Thieves have higher burst damage.
Please go back to your own forums.
Since when do thieves have higher sustain? If they’re in stealth they can’t do anything except regen health which is still lower than healing signet PASSIVE…
Warrior is widely regarded to do the most DPS, a lot more than ranger and guardian for sure. As far as burst DPS, warrior wins with hundred blades. Nothing can touch that.
0/0/30/0/0 Shadow Arts is an amazing tree, stealth means you can still be hurt but if you know your class and others you can avoid damage easilly.
Hundred Blades is the easiest attack to avoid in the entire game to any class.
If your dieing to it, AS A THIEF.. then I suggest getting a new pair of hands. The counter to hundred blades is moving out of the way, with a class that has multiple teleports and ways to escape this is easy. I’ve never died to 100b on my thief, even with the prenerf bullsrush+quickness+100b combo, it is SO easy to see it coming.
A guardian has Whirling Wrath, which is a hard to avoid attack unlike hundred blades because you can move and combo with it to pull foes to you, you can also use it to cleanse conditions as well (things that would prevent it from hurting your target.) Whirling Wrath is better in every way because it has MOBILITY.
Stop looking at big numbers, in PVP its mobility that matters.
Not all thieves have 30 in shadow arts though. I know I don’t. And you’re still forgetting that while in stealth thieves don’t do damage. Those that stay in stealth and never come out are just trolling. When they come out to actually do some damage, they got no more sustain!
Now let’s see, skull crack can be used every 7.5 seconds and most thieves only carry 1 stunbreak, 2 at max. Eventually you’ll be stunned then killed. How to dodge when stunned?
Besides it is well know that warrior has the highest mobility nowadays especially with sword/warhorn and greatsword. Literally 3000 range on a fairly short cooldown.
Joking? my thief craps on warrior mobility. Shadow trap. done deal. Withdraw. Done deal. Infiltrator’s/Steal. done. Plus sustain is heavy in SA. refuge when you are low and you basically have a 2nd heal. plus the passive heal benefit from stealthing. not to mention the condi removal gain from stealth is pretty much a must have. if you are losing to warriors as a thief, no way around it bro, you kinda suck.
It’s pretty obvious we use completely different builds bro.
I only have 5 points in shadow arts and don’t use daggers. It’s great that you counter 1 cheese build with another cheese build, but I prefer to win fair and square.
So in other word, you don’t want to have to change skills, traits, weapons, foods, runes, or sigils based on what you are fighting or what type of fighting you are doing. A thief should automatically win any 1 on 1 fight because they are thieves. If that doesn’t happen, the other class is clearly OP and needs to be nerfed. You do realize the definition of balance is you win 50% and lose 50% of the time.
Well I started eating food yesterday JUST to counter warriors. And why should I change my spec that works well just to counter 1 class/build?
the same reason everyone else has to spec to survive a random glass thief 2 shotting them
well necros are very powerful right now in zerg versus zerg
The best way to de-emphasize zerging is to spread the objectives out. Instead of adding wholly new maps, expand the current ones to at least four times the size.
This would increase opportunity cost for maintaining a singular 60 man zerg versus e.g. two 30 man or three 20 man zergs exponentially.However, that would require a rework of the decade-old legacy network code they grandfathered over from GW1, so not likely to happen.
zergs would just circle cap with superior rams instead of running back to defend then
I agree it’s pretty stupid that only you and your enemies can see your wvw rank
I’m on a tier 4 server. No lag at all. Not even for SM fights. I have no sympathy for people complaining about server lag since the fault lies between the keyboard and the chair. Look in the mirror and realize that the only reason your server lags is because there are more players then it can handle. Anet has blessed you with 21 EU Servers and 24 North American servers. If you don’t utilize them its not Anets fault.
So I should pay anet to transfer because they have bad servers that can’t handle all the people who transferred to my realm? OK, buddy
Apparently people don’t understand that the aoe cap applies to friendly spells as well, so if it were gone not only would you have enemies aoeing everyone, but you’d have allies giving boons and heals to everyone.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Water_field
Blast Finisher, at level 80
Healing: 1,320 + (0.2*healing power)
1320 + (.2*320)
1320 + (64)
1384
To our chagrin, Anet keep patching WvW with more masteries. If anyone hasn’t already noticed, higher tier servers tend to have higher ranked WvW players. This means that higher tier servers have more opportunity to obtain these new masteries.
Let me stop you right there since your entire premise is false.
every single player in the game has the same opportunity to obtain wxp, and therefor new world abilities(ie: masteries).
there’s no correlation between a server’s rank and a player’s rank
Actually, if your class can aoe well, you gain wxp rank much more quickly in tier 1-2. The bigger the zerg, the more people you can tag, the more wxp you get.
it has been bugged since launch and they have not fixed it yet
Water field bot
Seriously though, it feels like they envisioned the ranger to provide damage and soft support through aoe cripples, snares, and fields. Unfortunately in pve it’s not a useful role when compared to zerker melee trains.
(edited by Blix.8021)
i had the same problem today, nothing fixed it short of guesting on the server of the person who made the group
The 300 bonus range from a ranger longbow is nice, but not necessary. Learn how to sidestep the zerg when it charges and you can often just stand off to the side and shoot people. Don’t discount the aoe burst coming from a full berserker warrior with a longbow, either, and also note that rifle killshot has 1500 range. I would much rather range people on my warrior than on my ranger.
It’s become clear over time that this game hates alts. Good thing the only characters I care about have all the armor they need, it will take forever to grind tokens for gear now.