A warrior who uses rush has to give up a weapon swap for a greatsword.
*GS has no CC abilities except for a cripple, only damage and mobility (although oddly most of the damage comes from 100b which is stationary and channeled).
*GS burst skill is short range and terrible, which means he has one less weapon to synergize with cleansing ire. It also does not synergize well with the longbow, which is popular because of how combustive shot works to proc CI
*Rush distance is slowed by cripple and chill
*Rush is buggy if you use it against actual targets. It sometimes makes you run past the target and swing, missing. Sometimes it makes you run in place when you reach the target, wasting time and missing if they move.
Eles give up nothing for RTL. Dagger is already the most commonly used offhand. Not only that, RTL actually works properly all the time.
So nerf rush’s cooldown if you want. But you have to make it reliable and useful for more than running away, first.
For me a weapon switch usually fixes it, when I got stuck after building siege. I have yet not experienced being stuck after immobilize wore off.
there’s the bug where you get stuck on siege, and then there’s another, rarer, bug where after blinking or leaping (apparently at the same time as being immobilized) your character gets stuck and you can’t move or turn until you do an emote.
Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?
I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?Personal preference falls under role play.
Not letting you dodge the point that easily. This game’s PvE is sorely lacking in balance at the high end. The proposed change won’t fix the balance but it would make things a tad more level. Ideally PvE should have situations where both long and short range have practical applications at the top level. As it stands currently, the only situation where ranged becomes practical is when you’re class has no other option (I could argue that D/x Ele is still ranged as even Lightning Whip has more that double the range of melee and no combo tree) and a couple bosses that you pretty much can’t stand beside.
This change wouldn’t damage the meta in anyway but it would ideally alleviate some of the elitism among the pugs.
If you feel like replying to this, I ask you, why are you so dead set on keeping PvE as it is currently? Why do you not want more viable choices in the meta?
And why do you want to change it?
If range was equal dps to melee, then everyone would just range because it would be less risk and equal reward. Why would anyone learn how to dodge when they could just camp longbow/rifle/staff/mesmer gs and be equal? How boring would that be?
I love how the options op presents are negative.
Also love people saying how they rather get killed a lot and have “fun” as if thats any true, and lastly I love the remarks of some people on how they roam solo to duel.Guess what, as far as WvW is concerned, thats very useless, second only to afk on WP.
Not to mention you’ll almost always gonna find yourself outnumbered.WvW is won by either joining the big group, or supporting the big group with supplies, building/refreshing siege, snipe dolly/camps, scout and report the enemy zerg location, etc.
Roaming around looking for duels adds nothing, those 5 stomps you might pull out an hour are neglectable.
Right now is not so bad because of the low % of players, but when you have 100+ queue…So for those that do solo duel you may get off your high horse of delusional superior skill, if anything engaging multiple targets in a big fight can be much more demanding since there’s A LOT more going on.
Even the times I spend an hour siegeing up say Bay ALONE are more productive for the server than duels.I do not agree the only other option to zerging is solo roaming or looking for duels, there is plenty of area between, and roaming and dueling are often not the same activity.
From a PPT perspective, what is more effective for your server? 1 group of 50 or, let’s say, two groups of 15, a group of 10 and 2 groups of 5. I submit the later for most situations (PPT-wise).
From a “fights perspective”, doesn’t your individual impact increase as group size decreases? I find the combat system is at it’s best when in a group of 5, but each to their own.
Finally, from the comments it seems there is a broad swath of people who like the low stress, low accountability environment of the zerg. That’s fine and it is fun to run around the map as a big server group, but it’s not optimum for either the objective of winning the weekly match-up or encountering difficult fights to improve guild skill and coordination.
There’s not even enough space on the map for 2 groups of 15, 1 of 10 and 2 of 5. The group of 50 will just go around roflstomping the smaller groups. A 45 man group plus 5 people sitting in towers for ACs or door trebs > 50 people spread out into 5 groups. The people in towers will delay long enough for the zerg to show up and stomp the smaller groups and collect bags.
If the maps were three times as large, you would have a point.
I would rather have a mediocre warrior than the best ranger in the world in my wvw zerg. Let the best ranger in the world go gank people.
more specific??? When i have to type /dance in order to re-gain control of my character or else its just stuck in place. Happens to thieves and eles who trigger evade/dodge/blink same time as immobilization goes off. Its been around for ever and they even tried to patch it awhile ago, still broken.
happens to my mesmer sometimes, too.
Increased hostility only serves to undermine a person’s own argument.
So does passive-aggressively dodging the issue instead of admitting they’re wrong
cwutididthar
The warrior description says “Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”
That means I should be able to use any weapon in the game, right? Cause I’m a master of weaponry. It says so right on the website! Why can’t I sit back and shoot with my bow? I’m a bow master, ANet said so!
That’s not right.
Yes it is. I don’t get to sit back and pew pew with my warrior’s bow; neither do rangers.
P.S. I expect warriors to be buffed to do more damage the longer the fight goes on, because it says so on the website. Thanks.
“unparalleled archers” just means that they’re better archers than everyone else, it doesn’t mean archery is good in this game.
Did you even read where all the replies were coming from or just the last few?
Yeah, I did. You’re one of those people who argue that rangers should be the best at ranged combat, even though if rangers were indisputably the best at ranged combat, range would still be inferior to melee for balance reasons. And for whatever reason, you use the flavor text description of the class to make your point.
“unparalleled archers” just means that they’re better archers than everyone else, it doesn’t mean archery is good in this game.
Don’t tell me you don’t feel good when you get away from six people all trying to gank you.
Not really. It doesn’t take a lot of skill to stealth + blink or berserker stance + rush
This is WvW, not PvP. You don’t do your server any favors by dying. You do it favors by surviving. Running is just part of WvW. Sure, I prefer a good fight. But if our group of 8 or 10 runs into 30 and it looks like we’ll get crushed (not always the case – we’ve beaten those odds many times), it’s better to WP and go cap something while the zerg is busy wondering where we went :p
Nobody is criticizing people for running. They are criticizing the fact that the game makes it so easy to run in the first place.
Greatsword hits? should be an instsakill.
Rifle shots? Instakill.snip…
Just going to go ahead and leave this image here, rifle can already instakill.
575 damage is hardly an instakill.
You might want to go ahead and relook at that image, the damage i was showing was 17.2k. which is an instakill on most classes.
Let me guess 17.5k kill shot to what? uplevel on green armor going all zerker?
Celestial Ele, half exotic half ascended. So ya that warrior skill is a little op.
Not even with full zerker, 25 stacks of might can’t do 17.5k damage on a Celestial Ele.
Nice try tho..Yeah, you could. Full ascended celestial light armor and accessories with no points in the armor trait tree is only about 2400 armor.
A 30/10/0/0/30 warrior can have the following damage bonuses
+15% from berserkers power
+3 % from stick and move
+10% from forceful greatsword (switch to your gs before the bullet from kill shot hits to get the bonus)
+7% from burst mastery
+3*x% from destruction of the empowered
+1*x% from each stack of vulnerability
+5% from sigil of of force (or +10% if you have another weapon with sigil of night to use at nighttime)
+10% from scholar runes17.2k is on the high end, but it’s definitely doable with might on the warrior and vulnerability and boons (not protection) on the ele.
And that build crumbles to condis worse than a Engi to a Necro. Also, Forceful GS is a master trait so you can’t have that.
oops, I meant slashing power, not forceful gs. The one in the strength line. And I know it’s a horrible build for wvw, but the point is still that you can get ridiculously high numbers.
And your usefulness is what?
What are you even on about? Someone said it was impossible to get 17k kill shots, I’m saying it is.
At least in pvp you get the satisfaction of “well, I get to keep this point for my team,” in wvw you get nothing.
You get to cap BL bloodlust for your team. You get a camp. You get a tower. You get to kill a dolyak and that delays their garrison waypoint for a few more minutes. Heck, maybe all you get is the ability to stay there and scout the thing you wanted to scout.
The map is covered in objectives, many of which only require a small group to take. If you’re fighting for nothing in the middle of nowhere, well, why are you doing that?
fun?
It just makes fighting people less fun when you have spend half your time chasing.
Well, in fairness, you don’t have to chase them.
Sometimes it’s important to kill someone because you really need to keep a dolyak path clear for a while, or when the fight you just had was pretty perilous and you’re worried they’ll just keep resetting and attacking you over and over again until they get lucky (HI THIEVES!), but there’s lots of other times when you can just shrug your shoulders and let them go. Maybe do some half-hearted chasing to put some fear into ’em so they run further.
The path of “well, you don’t have to actually stomp them, you won because they ran away” eventually ends in people just not even bothering to fight each other. Why spend the time when most of the time you’ll either draw or lose? At least in pvp you get the satisfaction of “well, I get to keep this point for my team,” in wvw you get nothing.
Greatsword hits? should be an instsakill.
Rifle shots? Instakill.snip…
Just going to go ahead and leave this image here, rifle can already instakill.
575 damage is hardly an instakill.
You might want to go ahead and relook at that image, the damage i was showing was 17.2k. which is an instakill on most classes.
Let me guess 17.5k kill shot to what? uplevel on green armor going all zerker?
Celestial Ele, half exotic half ascended. So ya that warrior skill is a little op.
Not even with full zerker, 25 stacks of might can’t do 17.5k damage on a Celestial Ele.
Nice try tho..Yeah, you could. Full ascended celestial light armor and accessories with no points in the armor trait tree is only about 2400 armor.
A 30/10/0/0/30 warrior can have the following damage bonuses
+15% from berserkers power
+3 % from stick and move
+10% from forceful greatsword (switch to your gs before the bullet from kill shot hits to get the bonus)
+7% from burst mastery
+3*x% from destruction of the empowered
+1*x% from each stack of vulnerability
+5% from sigil of of force (or +10% if you have another weapon with sigil of night to use at nighttime)
+10% from scholar runes17.2k is on the high end, but it’s definitely doable with might on the warrior and vulnerability and boons (not protection) on the ele.
And that build crumbles to condis worse than a Engi to a Necro. Also, Forceful GS is a master trait so you can’t have that.
oops, I meant slashing power, not forceful gs. The one in the strength line. And I know it’s a horrible build for wvw, but the point is still that you can get ridiculously high numbers.
Greatsword hits? should be an instsakill.
Rifle shots? Instakill.snip…
Just going to go ahead and leave this image here, rifle can already instakill.
575 damage is hardly an instakill.
You might want to go ahead and relook at that image, the damage i was showing was 17.2k. which is an instakill on most classes.
Let me guess 17.5k kill shot to what? uplevel on green armor going all zerker?
Celestial Ele, half exotic half ascended. So ya that warrior skill is a little op.
Not even with full zerker, 25 stacks of might can’t do 17.5k damage on a Celestial Ele.
Nice try tho..
Yeah, you could. Full ascended celestial light armor and accessories with no points in the armor trait tree is only about 2400 armor.
A 30/10/0/0/30 warrior can have the following damage bonuses
+15% from berserkers power
+3 % from stick and move
+10% from slashing power (switch to your gs before the bullet from kill shot hits to get the bonus)
+7% from burst mastery
+3*x% from destruction of the empowered
+1*x% from each stack of vulnerability
+5% from sigil of of force (or +10% if you have another weapon with sigil of night to use at nighttime)
+10% from scholar runes
17.2k is on the high end, but it’s definitely doable with might on the warrior and vulnerability and boons (not protection) on the ele.
(edited by Blix.8021)
Droks Run. Beacons Perch to Fort Rankner, to Droknars Forge.
Droknar’s forge is in the game, it’s a bunch of ruins underwater. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sunken_Droknah
I think the game would have been better if they had made leaps only work on enemies and if stealth had been designed differently (or not put in the game at all, honestly). It just makes fighting people less fun when you have spend half your time chasing.
Downed state and the ease at which people can run away are two of the many things people will not miss about GW2 when another good RvR game finally comes out.
So, I was at my daily Tequatl run today and was doing a defense team as usual. I asked the guardian in my party why he was using a staff and the answer was “for the might”. Considering my party had myself (an ele), a warrior, a thief, and another ele, i told him we had it covered. So he decided to use hammer and staff and proudly showed off his full set of Nomad’s gear (TVH). I asked why he used it on a defense event, the point of the defense was to kill the mobs before they walk over to the turret operators. He said he was gonna “tank the mobs”. I replied with “I’m not sure how you tank when there is no way to manage aggro and in my experience, the mobs aren’t drawn to high toughness anyways.” He didnt care what i thought, and I fully expect to down frequently in the fight. Thoughts?
Didn’t go terribly…The other ele and I kept getting followed by the mobs and the other ele kept getting downed by them. The thief remarked that we were doing pretty well. I kinda made a kitten move just then…stopped attacking for 15 seconds..heard the remark “our dps has kinda slowed” then attacked again.
As a guardian his dps is kitten to begin with. That said, I run middle of the road soldier on mine. In general I survive and do damage. BUT I’m used to playing a tank. I have a condition (fire/flame) damage set on my great sword, I smash as often as possible to blind, and constantly pull the mob to me. This seems to work. I heal as I go and rinse and repeat. I’ve done that in Teq, but the damage there from mobs is intense. I usually watch for tentacles (claws whatever they are) and bounce between the shipwreck mobs and the turret mobs.
No wonder pugging teq is a pain if people are running builds like yours. Guardian DPS is very good if you actually build correctly.
People like the OP are why nobody likes rangers.
I like my rifle on my warrior, but do I go into dungeons and expect everyone to be OK with me sitting in the back and shooting the boss with it? No.
If you’re teaching noobs to do teq, tell them to wear ptv gear since you can’t crit him anyway. Nomad gear is pointless
At least people in this awful gear set will not be rewarded with champ boxes in other world events because they won’t do enough to tag it.
Honestly, the more people who wear this crap, the easier it is for me to tag stuff, so whatever.
LOL. You want 2 hours on FRIDAY where people aren’t allowed to play wvw so you can map complete?
You need far less HP than you think you do. Most of your survival comes from moving out of aoe/invulnerabilities/blocks, not a massive hp pool.
You play on the most stacked, siege using, blobbing, ppt matters most server in guild wars 2.
I see how the dialogue is going to go if there is a S3, sorry to burst your bubble but JQ isn’t the most stacked server. We are stacked in SEA time, that is all.
JQ is the most stacked server, that is why you won season 2 and it is why you have won by the biggest margins in T1 since S2 has ended. No one is buying the SoX propaganda anymore.
JQ won s2 because we traded wins with TC and then beat TC on the last week because TC has little ocx/sea.
The safest is having a thief spam blind on the npc
Look at what happened this week when maguuma dropped a tier for a week and you can see why wu/ld is a horrible idea that people should stop posting.
Diablo 3 took it one step further with its Hardcore mode:
lol.
You make more than 1 gold doing a dungeon run
Is Ice Bow new meta for ele? Or are the people noobs using it? Whats the skill rotation if so?’
Ice bow is nice for doing some good aoe damage to a clumped group of people, especially when a zerg is stuck on a wall or in a tunnel. You drop the bow, press 3, press 4, then switch back to your normal weapon.
Its THE best tagging weapon ingame. Imagine a Meteor shower that is extremely small and fast. Allowing you to tag compact groups without any real effort invested, nor risk.
The risk is it’s only 900 range, has a 2.5 second channel time, will deal a ton of retal damage to the user, and takes up a slot that could be used for a survivability skill.
If you invite a ranger it’s like a 5% chance they are actually useful. Easier to just say no rangers.
Well, not that pets are very useful… Ever… But, I can see it being pretty entertaining to go 6 in Beast Mastery + sword/dagger for evades and loling as your opponent struggles to kill you while your birds/felines get some beefy crits. It’s obviously far from optimal but I’d be lying if I said I’m not tempted to try.
Beastmaster is probably the build that would work best with this build, because you could go full tank and still get some damage. You would be unkillable in 1v1.
Yessm. And if you took “Guard!” with Nature’s Voice and Shout Mastery + Troll Unguent, omg. Jaguar stealths and lays down some mad deepz while you sit back and lol.
You can already do that with settler gear, and settler gear lets you do a bit of damage with conditions. The extra vit really doesn’t help you that much when you already have medium base hp and the +300 vit from the nature magic tree and the +250 vit from guard defense.
It might be alright by one or two pieces for mixing to get the right stat combo, but alone its a fairly useless stat combo for WvW in general. Its an outright tank, with not Crit Chance, Condition Damage, Power, or Ferocity. And speaking in terms of Guardians pure Clerics was already useless enough, what people don’t realize a lot with Healing Power is, its alright to a degree to get it, helps with living.
But for Guardian especially, all that healing power for dodge rolls is essentially useless, and sitting there when you aren’t dodging, and there is no trinity, so I never got people who tried to ‘make it so’ in the game. There is support roles/builds, but honestly blowing dodge rolls for a little heal, and contributing no damage otherwise, is fairly selfish, and useless. (Since the concept is everyone pitches in, in their own way)
It scales 1:1 with healing power, has no internal cooldown, and heals 4 other allies. I wouldn’t call that selfish. Might not be the most useful thing ever, but definitely not selfish. The trait is even called ‘selfless daring’
Since they added the preset world event timers, there’s no point in even trying to complete the events quickly. Before, you could do one event quick and catch the tail end of another for more rewards. Now, you have to sit there and afk for another 5 minutes anyway, so why bother? Might as well waypoint to the boss and tab out to wait for the spawn before setting up auto attack and tabbing back out. Not like I care about the people afking with me during the events, I probably won’t ever see them again.
Before tags were common/expected, people just asked in map chat “where’s the zerg”
Problem is any ranger trying to maximize his usefulness in a zerg is absolutely trash in a 1v1 scenario, so they’re just food for thieves or other roamers in 1v1 builds while they are out of the zerg.
How about
“Create a shielding wave in front of you that gives protection to yourself and up to five allies and stuns the next foe who attacks those affected.”
Would be more guardian like, and like the monk skill it’s named after.
The same blowhards who mock people who do not wish to fight them are likely the same people who play thieves and PU mesmers who run when they’re about to lose, anyway.
Little wonder that people don’t bother fighting them anymore. Half the classes in the game can just flee on a whim, so what’s the point of even stopping to fight these days? The game is just not balanced around having massive open fields, it’s balanced around fighting in a tiny circle, and it shows.
Do you really honestly believe that tier 6 or 7 servers would fare better against tc, bg, and jq than tier 2 servers do?….
The idea that lower tier servers are nearly on par in terms of population with tier 1 is just laughable.
When did I ever say that? Here’s the deal, and I’ll try to make it simple.
T1 has more 24/7 coverage. More players and guilds with a PPT mindset to attack and defend things with maximum PPT efficiency. In a nutshell, that means GWEN blobs, paper stuff is flipped with incredible speed, scouts actually scout, siege stays ticked, and when it’s time to push upgraded keeps when you have a coverage advantage, it’s a map zerg going all out. The old Waha zergs on JQ pretty much mastered the last part during SEA coverage, and I guess JQ is still doing that by the sound of the QQ in this thread.
If you like playing that way all the time, have yourself a merry time in T1.
In the the lower tiers, it’s much more of a sandbox of activity and doing whatever you want to do. That drives some players who have transferred down from T1 crazy, while others find it to be a welcome respite. It’s hard to explain the player numbers and what people are actually doing, but there are plenty of players.
You said quote
I am telling you after playing in T6/7 the past four months, after having played T1-3 since launch, there is actually more borderland activity in these tiers than there frequently is in the higher tiers.
Which is unequivocally false. There is not more activity on BLs in lower tiers than higher tiers.
Compare TC’s borderland focus this week.
http://www.gw2score.com/server/Tarnished-Coast
38.8% of their score came from EBG, 17.7% from BGBL, 19.5% from JQBL and 24% from TCBL.
Now look at Ferguson’s crossing boderland focus.
http://www.gw2score.com/server/Ferguson%27s-Crossing
51.3% came from FCBL. 34.1% from EBG. 9.5 and 5.1 from the other servers’ BLs.
Now maybe I extrapolated your comments too far, but the idea that there’s more happening in lower tiers is just plain false, especially weekdays. More is happening on more BLs in higher tiers.
If tier 1 only cared about winning, they’d have all transferred to BG months ago. Don’t delude yourself.
I am telling you after playing in T6/7 the past four months, after having played T1-3 since launch, there is actually more borderland activity in these tiers than there frequently is in the higher tiers.
Whenever a tier 2 server has the misfortune of facing a tier 1, it’s a massive stomp. And tier 2 is where the gvg guilds congregate, so it’s not for lack of skill that they are permanently pushed off their bl and into their corner of EBG.
Hell, if you check the scores this week, there are stomps in the lower tiers already forming.
You really think you can compare the activity level of a tier 6/7 server to tier 1? Lol, just lol.
T1 has more 24/7 coverage and far more hardcore PPT players.
The situation between T1 and T2 is, as you said, different because T2 is stacked with don’t care about PPT guilds that are there for the fights and GvG. So when they do face a T1 server, the guilds aren’t suddenly going to play PPT, and the pugs vanish because no one wants to play endless keep defense. Plus the T2 servers have no interest in gaining rating and moving to T1, so the tiers are effectively locked in besides the 5% out-of-order match roll, or whatever it is.
In the lower tiers you see much more 10-20 size pugmander and guild groups running on BL maps attacking, defending, and fighting, and feeling like they can actually do something without a map zerg porting in to deal with every situation.
Do you really honestly believe that tier 6 or 7 servers would fare better against tc, bg, and jq than tier 2 servers do? Really? If a server like FA can stomp tier 3, then how do you think tier 1 servers would do against them?
The idea that lower tier servers are nearly on par in terms of population with tier 1 is just laughable. Not only does tier 1 have more people on during prime and off hours, they have more people on during the weekdays, too. Place a tier 1 against a lower tier, and maybe the lower tier can hold on for a weekend and make a game of it, but by sunday night it’s a wasteland painted the color of whatever server the tier 1 is.
Just because your server can queue EBG for an hour on fridays, doesn’t mean its population is healthy enough.
I am telling you after playing in T6/7 the past four months, after having played T1-3 since launch, there is actually more borderland activity in these tiers than there frequently is in the higher tiers.
Whenever a tier 2 server has the misfortune of facing a tier 1, it’s a massive stomp. And tier 2 is where the gvg guilds congregate, so it’s not for lack of skill that they are permanently pushed off their bl and into their corner of EBG.
Hell, if you check the scores this week, there are stomps in the lower tiers already forming.
You really think you can compare the activity level of a tier 6/7 server to tier 1? Lol, just lol.
(edited by Moderator)
They take your servers true glicko rating and then multiply it by a random number. Then the servers are matched by way of (true glicko rating * random number) in descending order. The server with the highest number is green, blue is the middle, and red the lowest.
Aw man I wish I could find a time when people are actually fighting in EOTM. That would be great. I had high hopes when it first was announced but then…
Maybe we should designate a particular match at a particular time to be a real match. Where people could come and actually fight. Maybe do it a few times a week.
Would need some guilds to organize it though.
That’s the thing, the people posting here aren’t fighting. They’re setting up siege and sitting on superior arrow carts and killing people who have no desire or capability to fight. The landscape in eotm is horrible for actual wvw style fighting. Every gvg or large wvw guild wants open fields and what is eotm? Cramped and full of ledges.
If enough people decide to troll eotm ktrains, then the ktrainers will just quit and then the trolls won’t have anybody to troll, so they’ll leave too. Then who will use the map? Nobody.
Eotm is just a terrible game mode and I hate how much time they wasted in creating it.
I’m wondering why some of you don’t go into real wvw and fight people who are actually up for fighting back instead of fighting a blob of uplevels and pvers with your superior siege. Surely there are some lower tier servers in need of people who like defense as much as you all seem to.
Defending with siege in eotm is like killing the champions out of order in the old frostgorge train. It wasn’t against the rules or anything, but there was absolutely no reason to do it other than to annoy other people. Even your own team gets annoyed because you defend and they have less stuff to recapture for experience and champ bags.
why the hell would you ever want sentinels
because they’re bad players who think they need to stack full survivability to live in zerg fights
If you take away the rewards from killing the champs, then everyone will leave eotm. Real wvw players will stick to wvw, pvers will stick to pve, and eotm would be completely empty.