Guild Wars 2

Why should rank titles have to be so closely spaced? Look at current WvW achievements and make rank titles similar, e.g. rank 1,000,000 highest rank title. Pretty sure you won’t run out of titles without creating bronze-, silver-, gold-, diamond-, silk-, paper-, kitten champion.

Like Straegen.2938 idea, but make even bigger caps on titles if desired. Even though 2000 is out of reach for normal player that has a life.

Contact exploits@arena.net

Taken from https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Where-to-report-hackers

Christian.2395:

@ Deso… Do you know this guy and can you please get rid of him? He is hacking… he just didn’t get any dmg from 4 ppl…. Thx

Hate to tell that your screenshot really proves nothing. Pretty sure public shaming is not allowed, so better to contact Anet directly. By the way I don’t often take any damage, like that warrior: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_

Why would it reward offensive servers and punish servers that turtle up in towers? Easier to kill offensive players from towers with cannons and arrow carts than kill players manning those siege. So, those that do turtle up in towers are rewarded more, or did I understand whole proposition wrong?

Try both. I personally like playing with warrior more, there is more diversity. Mostly use hammer and sword+warhorn/mace (and now love sword+sword), but then can easy switch to strong ranged when needed, i.e. rifle/bow. Guardian and warrior both bring good group support, even though guardian one is probably more desirable.

I am rank 32 with my highest character, so this rate I will be top rank, well, never. Not that I think I should be when keep playing 5 different characters in WvW

MistMirage.4706:

I see you having fun are using zoom hack @ 5:20. I’ve downloaded, today I’ll check if is it possibly make that shots… If not, so, sorry, but will be reported, fed to the teeth

I don’t get it, what am I supposed to see at 5:20? Have I played asura too much, because I just didn’t see anything out of normal.

Your first thought was probably right one. Thief traited and geared for stealth and escape is best for scouting especially if fighting is not priority. Such thief doesn’t have massive spike like most zerker thieves and even such thief does not have ability to mitigate enough damage for sustained fights. It relies solely on ability to stealth and escape.

Like said by RashanDale, staff elementalist and staff/hammer guardian.

What would be the point of double teaming? Wouldn’t that make rather boring match-up when it is pretty equal now as free-for-all.

Rotation makes it a bit easier and most servers, apart the bottom ranked, do get occasional “easier” match-ups now.

Still think that map completion for WvW maps is strange. Does it really attract people to WvW or does it make them frustrated with WvW if they just can’t get map completion done? Then there are some people that just take space in WvW waiting someone to cap that location they are missing, possibly trading in spawn or crafting, while eager WvWers stand in que.

Happened with my mesmer few times, but I have never been able to attack under terrain (tried only in PvE) – Obstructed always. Some of those attacks pass through walls that would normally obstruct any attack, but it could just be bugged behavior. Nevertheless, it is a clear exploit, intentionally done or bugged.

Suspicious Nija.6790:

I can talk to you ingame Anekke. This is not a topic for the official forum i think. Especially since we have a community forum. So either on that or ingame.

Community forums can be rather hostile for dissenting views. Usually those same elitist people in server forums beat the dissenting person into submission. Private in-game conversation is better.

@OP, could look into server transfer. There are plenty of servers that welcome everyone in WvW.

Cottage Pie.6215:

Looking back through sweet innocent Piken’s match history, you utterly wiped several servers whilst deso was enduring endless Vizunah omniblobs.

Just sayin~

…and now you want refund? Condolences? Hand in marriage? What?

Piken Square server history: http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/8
Desolation server history: http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/15

Neukku.5713:

That’s the way Kodash protects dolyaks? Silence please!

Congratulations. You have managed to kill dolyak with D/P thief, that is quite an achievement. Who would have thought it was even possible.

Can I suggest that you take preferably video of suspected cheating. Sorry to tell you that your screenshots really prove nothing, since there could have been another AC (or even ranger) in different location that is not visible in your screenshots. Then report suspected cheats to Anet, no need to make public announcement ‘see all this server people cheat because I just say so with couple of screenshots as my evidence that mostly just show ground’.

Feels like there is a Desolation thief (or pair of thieves) behind every nook and cranny. Seems like a pretty even match-up.

If you are wondering who is the biggest noob on Piken Square, it is me:

I don’t think it is entirely commanders fault. If you called out help for watergate, then surely there are people in that 20-25 people following commander that should know where it is and come there on their own. Why would they continue follow commander that was just swimming around?

That commander eventually found it, so it was lesson learned. Elitist commander with zero people skills is even worse than inexperienced commander that is at least willing to learn. Running with big blob AoE tagging or how much time they spend on map doesn’t really make any better leader. I don’t know if any additional requirement for commander tag really makes better commanders. I think people just eventually don’t follow commanders that are bad.

Tribio.8531:

Bogey.5423:

Creates hostile community – kill stealing and arguments over it.

Heh, you can’t expect that everyone in a country gets along, right? So I’d rather have the zerg broken and some finger pointing then to keep promoting “1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1”.. :-)

I rather have friendly community than just try to make everyone else play how you personally like to have game played.

I don’t quite get it why you feel the need to run in blobs if that is such horrible thing for you. Just run in smaller group or even solo. Don’t go to orange swords, go take some camp or yak. If you travel in your optimal group, don’t gank smaller forces and roamers repeatedly or they will join bigger force because get fed up with your shenanigans.

Tribio.8531:

Have WxP divided amonst all players doing the objective (killing a player, taking a camp, …).

For instance: capturing a camp yields 500 WxP
-> take it solo: 500 WxP for you
-> take it with 20 people: 25 WxP for each

There, zerging solved..

Creates hostile community – kill stealing and arguments over it.

Jayne.9251:

Dear BB thief on BBBL,

That was a kinda fun fight near the lake between Hills and Garrison. Went on for quite a bit. Was enjoying it greatly. Then you ran away

And now any time I see you I run to you to give you a big big hug and you flee. Come back please. I need practise vs thieves. I’ll give you cookies.

Love,

Me

Inexperienced single mesmer looking thief for a good times. Teach me all your secrets.

P.S. Not looking for a quickie, but longer engagement.

I run alone taking yaks, sentries, camps, ogres, dredge, quaggan, doing support (building siege and repair) or just roam. I get ganked by small groups and zergs. I have fun.

I run with groups doings same things as solo, plus taking towers and have group fights. We get wiped by bigger groups and zergs. I have fun.

I run with zergs doing same things and taking keeps, garrisons, Stonemist and have massive battles in open. We get wiped by bigger zergs. I have fun.

If you like to run in smaller group (or even solo) nothing is really stopping you. Afraid that you get ganked by bigger force? It happens, get over it. Don’t join zerg if you don’t like it or do you justify it by saying that enemy has zerg, so we have to have gather up and have a bigger zerg. Don’t worry, there are people in enemy side that says the same thing.

Paxi.1386:

Silas, Angel, and Shortcake are the only ones i’m not laughing at on this thread. To respond to Bogey, if your gonna 4-5 v. 50 then of course your gonna get stomped, but 20-50 you should be able to at least DENT them in some way, sure you may still loose. What I don’t understand is clearly Anet has server issues, why would you promote a numbers game when your servers can’t handle the numbers? You would solve two issues that there are numerous complaints about (those complaints being lag and blobs) if you provided more incentive for small team play. I’m in Angels guild and it is sad that we are considering moving down tiers because we don’t want to conform to megablobs that just press 1 and hope to win.

I haven’t actually formed opinion on this matter, just all pro-claims seem to be that massive zerg just stand still in AoE while smaller force leap around like gazelles and avoid all AoE/CC. 20 defenders already can hold their own really good against 50 zerg, but of course it does require well placed siege (that awful curse word). Can’t deny that server issues are bad, but neither am I convinced that removing AoE cap would help at all.

DeadlySynz.3471:

This will probably apply out in the field where the larger (more coordinated army) will always win…

But..

How exactly does this apply in tower defense now.. where you stick say a couple rangers or elementalists in there dropping their payload on mindless zerg?

The results are going to be much different than a zerg trying to AoE the walls with 4-5 people spread out on it, when those 4-5 people are hitting say 50 targets at once..

That’s why the AoE cap needs to be removed. Anet already said they couldn’t due to all the calculations and what not basically saying it would make the skill lag infinitely worse than it is now.. fair enough..

But..

Arrowcarts have no problems with it.. so treat every other character with AoE capabilities the exact same way. Same as arrowcart, just different animation, problem solved.

How long you think people have to play to learn spread out in front of a tower, maybe even go to sides? I would guess less than taking one tower. There is plenty of room around towers to spread out, so those 4-5 can’t really lay down enough AoE to hit 50 targets at once and two AoE on single person won’t kill average WvW character. So, would removing AoE cap really help those 4-5 defend against 50 zerg?

Silas.8630:

Imagine the following scenario:

A small group of players finds a good hiding place, sets up an ambush, and sends 1 player out to bait a large zerg. The large zerg takes the bait and runs past the ambush point, the smaller force drops a full AoE spike on their stacked map-zerg. With the current AoE limit, the small force’s AoE hits 5 of the 80 players in the zerg, achieving nothing before the zerg then turns and annihilates the small force. Without an AoE cap the small force’s AoE would have hit the full zerg, killing most of them and punishing them for poor situational awareness and taking bait.

Except that 80 player zerg does not move as single unit that is inside 400 range, it has a tail, a long tail. When small group drops AoE on point, rest drop AoE on small group. Best you get out is that you can kill those that do take the bait and even that relies on fact that they do not know how to dodge out of AoE.

Someone else explain to me how it makes game more tactical without insisting that big zergs are dumb and smaller zergs are smart.

It really doesn’t matter in sense that technical limitations dictate AoE cap.

Silas.8630:

If you stand in all their AoE like a kitten and let them roll over you, sure. But it would also allow a smaller zerg to use decent strategy to destroy a mindless map-zerg.

Why would bigger zerg then stand in AoE like a kitten? I have to admit that I do not quite follow this logic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Why-do-commanders-ask-us-to-stack/first#post2354587

Wouldn’t no AoE cap make bigger zerg more easily mow down smaller zerg, since they can lay down more AoE? Seems like it would work both ways.

Shemsu.8721:

Skye.4983:

Shemsu.8721:

Skye.4983:

Pavel.8531:

And I did say earlier “It’s logical to me that active blocks should trigger revealed, all other – not since the attack doesn’t connect”(not sure about aegis/guard focus block). I play s/p thief, with stealth only on utilities so I don’t care much about “that” thing especially, just following logic. AND by that logic – blocks should block attacks only from the front 180 degrees – you want to tell me it’s logical that you raise your shield/mace in front of you and suddenly you block attacks from all directions? Also, phantasms shouldn’t miss when the mesmer is blinded, warriors should… etc, etc. So yeah, logic sucks.

Let me try to make it simple for you, because you clearly don’t have a clue. We’re talking about whether or not an attack from stealth should reveal you, regardless of whether it actually connects with your target, the act of attacking itself should have an effect. Just like it does with every other skill/attack/utility (with the exception of warrior’s adrenaline, for those of you still clinging to that excuse). This is not about whether block should only work from 180 degrees or not, or whether or not stealth should even work in plain sight, or whether or not stabbing someone with a dagger should somehow make you invisible, or any other random, unrelated topic you’d like to throw out there. Logic, you haven’t got any.

Here’s the problem, your trying to apply your ‘logic’ from other attacks to backstab, without applying that same logic to all other systems. Since you didnt like my warrior example before, and since multiple people have used mesmer illusion skills, we will use that example.

Mesmer wants to summon a phantasm against a guardian, guardian pops aegis, mesmer presses #1 to counter aegis then proceeds to summon phantasm.

Thief goes stealth, guardian pops aegis. Now how does a thief counter aegis and retain his ability to use his stealth attack? same as the mesmer actually, he presses #1 to clear the aegis, then proceeds to backstab. If a blocked backstab caused reveal, what would be the counter to aegis? It would be an uncounterable defense against stealth attacks since anything the thief did would reveal him.

You just want to have your cake and eat it too, don’t you? At least your warrior example made a tiny bit of sense. The mesmer one just makes me scratch my head. How does a thief counter Aegis? By attacking the guardian and THEN using stealth.

And yes it would be such an amazing defense against backstabs, I mean my god, 3 whole seconds of revealed, against the guardian’s 45 second refresh timer on aegis. Game over man, game over!

You wanna talk about having your cake and eating it to? yet you offer no counter to my argument except random insults. So i will again reiterate to you, you want backstab to work like other skills, fine, apply that logic across the board, backstab no longer requires stealth, or position behind enemy like all the examples you and others have listed

I think (s)he did. Attack guardian like any other class to remove aegis, then stealth and backstab. It does require a bit more skills from thief to actually look at boons that enemy has and then play accordingly to counter it. There is no logic that one profession should be exempt how aegis works.

kursk.4890:

Bogey, I imp pant in stream video, but stream is low quality, but you can see more or less an estimated ppl, I leave no point names, because in some indistinguishable frame, but count 63…. (are more). If anyone knows another way to out of doubt is wellcome.

But not is only hills, is all afternoon/night, camps, towers, open fields etc…

Piken enters the category of vizunah/elona/riverside/abaddon

http://subefotos.com/ver/?de6d3c258956b7376435d6dd07fecb17o.jpg#codigos

I cant see far more than estimated people. Like said, it is so low quality that you have to just estimate number of people. I counted (very generously) about 60 before entering inner, which would fit your estimate (60-80). I could have counted many pets and minions. Your images have even reduced quality, so they tell even less.

Here is the problem though. You are claiming that “in wvw only enter 80 ppl.” You managed to pull single live steam video where there is not 80 even by your admittance. Your claim that “(are more)” is dubious at best. Why not take a screenshot of that 80 blob that roam around all the time? Take many screenshots, so we don’t have to just look your mining of live streams to get barely numbers that you claim there is.

You have set some arbitrary rule that Piken should not form zergs and if they do it is bad. Are you still going to deny that you server does form zergs too? I do not see any difference in e.g. Elona Reach (our last week matchup) and Baruch Bay what it comes to forming zergs – both have big zergs. So in that sense Baruch Bay and Jade Sea enter the same category (Vizunah Square/Elona Reach/Riveside/Abbadon/Piken Square). Welcome to servers that have single digit ranking.

A month ago it was Seafarer’s Rest that blobbed always, now after your posting break it is Piken Square that blobs too much. I am afraid that next match-up it is again some other server that blobs too much.

kursk.4890:

I win, the title is “the blob”, soon in all cinemas !!!!

http://es-es.twitch.tv/chemsorly/b/429985864 2:30 h of full time piken blob, but golden moment in 32:05, They are nominated for an Oscar.

where I collect my prize? nobody can better this!!! (on all bl’s equal).

This is exactly what I mean when someone reports numbers of enemies. Since golden moment is 32:05, just watched that. Where is the 60-80 blob? Over half of 80 blob invisible all the time?

Shemsu.8721:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Shemsu.8721:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I find it funny how Thieves blindly defend there class thinking that Perma Stealth, obscene damage, BS combat movement and ridiculous boons is perfectly fine thing to have and how its a “L2P” issue

Ridiculous boons? Your in the wrong thread mate, guardian forums are that way —->

No seriously, He was going into stealth and coming out with like 6 different boons and doing it EVERY 3 seconds meaning they were either refreshed or replaced. I watched him fighting some people for a good 2-3mins he didnt have ANY time out of stealth where he didnt have like 6 boons on himself.

Mostly Fury, Protection, saw a few Swiftness in there as well as Aegis and some others

I don’t know what you saw, but thieves do NOT have access to protection or aegis, except thru boon steal or Mesmer juice

Could be runes too, for example Rune of Lyssa (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa).

With Basilisk Venom all boons, cooldown 45 seconds without Quick Venoms. Combine with Larcenous Strike and other traited boons. Rate of getting boons was a bit exaggerated.

Dadnir.5038:

Well, i’m sorry Bogey but what you state ain’t true. As a JS Player, I’m used to play against Viz, SFR, Kodash, desolation or Elona (2nd week against BB) and I’d say, actually, your worst than them when it come to blob.

Last week, for exemple, against BB and Kodash we hadn’t this much lags… Well whatever, each server play the way they wanna play that none of our concern. BTW, I wonder if PS tactic this week is “Seize the south” on BB borderland cause your kitten annoying! Didn’t you saw that we got the outmanned buff from 16h00 to 20h30? And despite this we manage to keep Bay against the two of you.

Oh! And your fight on shaddaran seemed to be “Epic”. I hope one of you recorded it, I’d really like to know what happened here.

You are stating very subjective things, much like kursk.4890. Numbers tend to get a much bigger when it is the enemy and much lower when it is you, same with lag estimations. So, I take with grain of salt what everyone claims, what it comes to blobbing. Especially those 80+ blob claims.

Some people seem to have this notion that Piken Square is not allowed to play same way as other servers. This double standard just seems kinda hypocritical. Besides, apparently our “blobbing” does not even work since we lost last week against Seafarer’s Rest and Elona Reach, so why complain about it?

I don’t know what “Seize the south” means, but wouldn’t it seem logical that if our spawn is in south on Baruch Bay borderland, then we take objectives that are in south first? Or do you mean to say that first you run to north camp and it is somehow more justified and not at all annoying?

Outnumbered didn’t seem to slow you down one bit when you (Jade Sea) took our third in Eternal Battleground today. Only 3-4 people defending in each location and over 20 of you attacking. We are not allowed to fight you when you are outnumbered, but it is perfectly fine for you to take full advantage of it? This is the double standard I was talking about.

By the way, good for you keeping something when outnumbered. I don’t know how it is relevant to anything, but it must be since you brought it up.

EDIT: Correction. I am not sure it was Jade Sea in incident in Eternal Battleground that I mentioned, it could have been Baruch Bay. However, I have not seen any hesitation from Jade Sea to take advantage of superior numbers.

Another correction after I started to think that. It wasn’t even Eternal Battleground, it was our borderland and it was Baruch Bay. Bad example in that sense, but I guess we will see how much Jade Sea back off when they attack under-defended objective and realize that there are not enough defenders.

kursk.4890:

Umplayable, Vizunah only has more lag (2º piken), and today not reset, but piken make one huge blob (with 3 or 4 guild) and full time together. Piken (vizunah, elona, abaddon, riverside etc…) destroy game… world vs world R.I.P

Is irrelevant if the server is very high or medium, if you make 60-80 blob, in wvw only enter 80 ppl.

Piken bl is one example. All week going to play in blob (no, error, huge blob)?

I can share you a little secret that most, at least moderately experienced, WvW players already know. Every server with single digit rank rating have big zergs. Most even have guilds that alone can create quite big zergs. You are either totally delusional or you have not played much WvW if you think your server does not form big zergs. Doesn’t even matter if you are on Baruch Bay or Jade Sea, since both can have massive zergs (or blobs as you insist).

You could transfer to a much lower ranking server if you do not like these big zergs. If you want to be on Spanish server (I don’t know if you are), then you are kinda stuck. At least try to understand what single digit server match-ups mean.

There must be some reason why guild upgrades do not apply to every server for guild, but off the top of my head nothing comes to my mind. I only see opportunity to sell more gems. Maybe someone enlighten me.

kursk.4890:

Piken, going to play all week with 80 blob? if so, tell me, and I rest 7 days. 80 blob = lag skills, unplayable.
Where is the old Piken?

Yes. Close your computer and go to sleep.

Human female mesmer, everyone and their cousin has one.

Seriously, if you like to communicate and coordinate with others, then mesmer. Thief can be played quietly alone. Necromancer is good for zerg play, can tag a lot of people with wells and marks. In conclusion, try each one.

Yes, it should trigger revealed.

This whole new match-up system is only designed to kill Ring of Fire. You didn’t know it?

Pretty much every server is running a risk to have bad match-up. Moving to another server doesn’t really solve it, because they do not know what kind of match-ups they are going to get in new server. More likely it is other things that make guilds move, which you did give some validity.

Wemil.7052:

Bogey.5423:

Wemil.7052:

[. .] yesterday piken and elona had thrice our numbers in all maps and they still lost in points:) today I slack:) tomorrow will see:)

You just have to make up in skill what you lack in numbers.

that is what we always do:)

SFR pugs always surprise me following wiping numbers many times our size amazing how powerful our zergs have become maybe because many of them are from guilds we have a lot guilds in sfr and many pve players coming to WvW are always welcome to raids so its easy for them to learn:)

think the only server that can match sfr pugs blob vs blob or pug vs pug is blackgate.
or jade sea very good server:)
deso lost a lot good players but when they were in the prime always had problem against them one of the best bomb squad server ever seen especially random v random.

I was being sarcastic (notice underlining). Hope you are being sarcastic now too.

Wemil.7052:

[. .] yesterday piken and elona had thrice our numbers in all maps and they still lost in points:) today I slack:) tomorrow will see:)

You just have to make up in skill what you lack in numbers.

Rock.7324:

I think I love you a bit

It was the Mistwrought Vault thingy that I’ve been at. What happens when I use both keys? I mean, I’ve read (now) that it’s a chest reward, but, does it have any influence on the outcome in the WvW map? You know, like we get the dredge to attack if you hold some points and such?

You need top and bottom key and then you can open door to chest, that gives random siege, Badges of Honor and some items (mostly green). No direct influence on WvW, you just get free siege and badges.

EB: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_Sanctum
Borderland: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistwrought_Vault

Log-out (character select) then back and you are on place where you entered WvW.

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

Bogey.5423:

Only problem for me in this match-up is that we are getting more commander Whiners. Those that spend ten minutes crying and blaming others after we lose something, rather than concentrating how we move on. On positive side, there are commanders that do seem to shine on harder match-up and think more positively.

Let me guess, you are from Piken. You guys gave good open fights, but your strategy in EB map is completely wrong, come on fighting to keep a T1 SM and lose all of your towers on map like last sunday…Dependending on ER move ,you guys risked to losse your keep to us or to them.

This is not even remotely relevant what I said, since I was talking about attitude and not tactics. I wasn’t on Sunday, so can’t really comment on your statements. Maybe it was fun fighting in Stonemist and not turtle up in towers. We lost everything in EB at least once today, no biggie. That is where my mentioned attitude comes in – you can start crying and blaming others for it or take them back.

Only problem for me in this match-up is that we are getting more commander Whiners. Those that spend ten minutes crying and blaming others after we lose something, rather than concentrating how we move on. On positive side, there are commanders that do seem to shine on harder match-up and think more positively.

Isn’t it kinda happening already. Just that, people that like to play WvW play it regardless of the match-up and then there is lots of fair-weather players that only show up when their server is dominating.

I would say staff necromancer, but grenadier engineer is fine too. Necromancer and engineer has longer range (1200/1500) than staff guardian (600), so guardian have to be pretty front line – not that it is really a problem.

Balzamon.1396:

thats nothing to be proud of rly… post it on the server website, but posting it here is only to say “hey guys look how much you suck and how good we are”

It is really only saying that there is way more people in Piken Square and serves really purpose to show how unequal the match-up is. I don’t think anyone is that naive to think that it is because “how good we are”.

dominik.9721:

lol when did piken square become such a zerg server? Thought they where a server with good solo roamers and guilds. But instaed of that evry piken guild runs in 30+ zerg and chase solo people and interrupt duells. please tell me waht have you done with the old piken square?

What you are saying is that it is fine for Kodash or Augury Rock to run 30+ zergs, but it is not fine for Piken Square to do so. Furthermore it is fine that Kodash or Augury Rock 30+ zergs chase solo people and interrupt duels, but it is not fine that Piken Square zergs do so.

Could there be possibility that every server in this match-up do in fact run 30+ zergs and those zergs steamroll duellers?

maeggle.6021:

[..] Being forced in a duel, then getting ambushed by the enemy’s guildees was as common as /laughing when retreating from such situations or /dance and jumping on corpses after steamrolling smaller groups, especially from Pikeneers.

This thread alone contains many samples of poor sportsmanship and lopsidedness, just like on the borderlands this week. [..]

Would poor sportsmanship include making unfounded statements and hypocrisy? How have you evaluated your server behavior in similar situations? Every server has gank-squads, so claiming superiority is rather silly.

Some are rather obsessed with idea that guild should only move among themselves and then they are “good” or “honorable”. Some guilds do say to pugs (like me) ‘go away, we want to run as guild’. Gladly most accept pugs for a common goal. Then people freak out when there is pugs (or even other guilds) with some guild taking tower or, heavens forbid, battle in open. Then ironically those that do freak out see no problem of forming their own out-of-guild zergs.