maybe you should just get a warrior to run shake it off for your group, that would totally counter necro.
Good post, I’ll try this out tonight. I’ve been running similar traits but with GS, and I think it’s also viable. The fun thing with GS build for me is you can run stances or signets effectively depending on what comp you’re against.
Sword #3 has felt clunky to me so far, but I’m also not used to using it. I’ll give it another chance.
Warriors got some modest improvements to survivability and cc, at the cost of dps. All in all the changes were kind of a wash, but there are a few more possibilities for build design.
The catch is that necros are a good counter to warrior in team fights, blinds counter hammer, and weakness counters burst dps. All these things are a lot stronger after the patch, and it’s going to make playing warrior much more difficult.
Yeah, my two sentence summary would be: it’s a dps nerf to the popular burst specs, with buffs in lesser used areas and maybe slightly higher sustain potential. It’s hard to say if anything will be viable until play testing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013
Looks fairly close to the leak. GL.
Phantasm mesmer is not a strong team fighter, but don’t tell me they’re useless to a team.
Yeah, aoe is kind of the other half of the problem here. The OP’s class design issues prevent warrior from being a great 1v1 class, but AOE damage trumps warrior’s ability (or really anyone that is non-bunker) to be melee in team fights.
Of course, the last point I’d argue warriors can work around by using LB, but I’d still like to see a pure melee warrior be viable.
So frankly I think the mistakes Anet made in competitive pvp are more rooted in execution than design philosophy. My problems with pvp were more class design and balance, bugginess, and lack of fleshed out pvp features at launch. A lot of those issues are greatly improved now. More game modes and stronger support roles/abilities would also make me happy.
That said, I really love a lot of the core design decisions for pvp. I’ve never liked having a gear strength disparity in pvp, and separate pvp/pve balance should be better for both. I’m also a big fan of having the freedom to experiment with builds and gear.
Yup, I main warrior also and 100% agree. Warrior design is amazing, especially the weapons. It’s really a shame the other classes didn’t follow suit.
^ You might want to double check your testing, I saw a significant difference in dps. Make sure to check individual hit damage so you can rule out the variation from crits.
From my testing (@3114 base might):
25 might: 1501 damage per 100b crit
0 might: 1160 damage per 100b crit
=29% damage increase
Great weapon choices.
Power is your primary priority, followed by pre and crit damage. Swap in vitality and toughness as needed to stay alive, that’s up to you to feel out how much you want.
With those weapons, I’d focus on offensive trait points. Here’s some of the most important ones:
Arms I (if you choose to run signet utilities, which is extremely strong until late levels)
Strength V
Discipline V
Arms X
Strength IV
So first off, I do prefer GS with LB. The pairing grants a lot of aoe damage, and LB#5 enables 100b.
That said, I think the best angle for a sword/LB build is condi/support based. I’d suggest warhorn with condi removal because you’re going to need decent condi removal to hang in fights as a non-burst dps. Also consider using HGH style runes/sigils + fast hands; the might will stack well considering you have decent condi and direct damage with those weapons.
Of course, the problem with warrior condi is the bleed stacks are easily cured. It’s decent aside from that.
From a warrior perspective, lack of damage mitigation/disengages make it very difficult to compete with mesmers and thieves as a dps role. At the same time lack of healing+condi removal makes it difficult to compete with guard/ele/ranger as a bunker role.
Warrior cleave damage and CC almost makes up for it as a dps role, but it needs to be played perfectly and uncountered to be effective.
The benefit of high health is that you can survive spike damage better. I think anet purposefully put that in contrast to classes that are better at sustained healing.
But yes, it seems like the way it was balanced high health doesn’t mean as much as having good healing in most situations.
So in theory, yeah I agree. I like the idea of making sure there’s counters to strong game mechanics. Actual implementation would need to be done very carefully though, and I think necro DS #1 would be too much. I’d prefer maybe a short duration condition that does damage for each evade.
That’s probably a bit too much as it punishes the classes that are already soft. The reason thieves and rangers have so much evade is because their melee specs are soft specs (thief especially) if you start just blankly dealing them damage on their dodges with their already low health and armor, that might be too much. They need those extra dodges to survive, so if we take it away we need to boost their survivability in other ways.
I think its better to tackle the source of the problem: spammable evades, spammable vigor, and spammable aegis.
Well, my reasoning for a condition would be that it would be something you could recognize and make a decision about, either cure it, use a different defensive move, or eat it. What it would really punish is if someone would continue to spam evades with it on. But yeah, even that would be hard to balance and would be kitten squishy classes.
But yeah, I also agree with going after the source. I’d be happy to see that too.
So in theory, yeah I agree. I like the idea of making sure there’s counters to strong game mechanics. Actual implementation would need to be done very carefully though, and I think necro DS #1 would be too much. I’d prefer maybe a short duration condition that does damage for each evade.
I think most of the complaints here are rooted in this action rpg style combat, which gw1 was definitely not.
In a nutshell it adds more of an element of keyboard/mouse dexterity skills to the game, and it comes at the cost of some strategic skill aspect (since you can’t rely on skills always landing).
So frankly I like most of these aspects and I think gw2 implemented them well; it makes the combat more engaging and exciting. That said I can understand that some don’t like that style, especially if you’re used to gw1 combat.
(edited by Brigg.6189)
Tips for hotjoin: (Do these before tournaments to learn what’s going on. It’s not fun having a rank 1 on your tourny team)
-Hotjoin is a kittenshow, people don’t care about winning much, and will often run in large groups to farm kills. Just be aware of that going in, I prefer 5v5 matches for that reason.
-Some people use hotjoin for dueling. There’s private servers that having dueling in the title, but people still use other servers sometimes. It’s courtesy to let them do it. Just try to notice if lots of people are standing around or not capping objectives before you start wailing on them.
-People will rage for whatever reason. Just ignore it.
Tips for actually winning:
- Play the objectives. All maps have 3 capture points which should be straightforward, but then some other gimmick objective. Look up the secondary objectives for each map: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP.
- Points are typically referred to as near, mid, far, relative to your spawn point.
- Rez your friends. A team that rezzes eachother quickly can often overcome a superior team.
- Only rez downed players, not dead.
- Only 1 person is needed on a capture point to capture it. Don’t sit on the point with your friends while the enemy gets everything else.
- Don’t get greedy. It’s better to defend 2 points then have everyone rush
Lastly just try to play smart. Dieing on a point can be ok if you really need to stall the capture, but in general don’t pick fights you can’t win. If the enemy is defending a node with a ton of players, go somewhere else or wait for backup before engaging.
Edit: One last thing. Before going in, just copy a popular build. Once you really understand why it works you can experiment on your own, but you’re not going to have much reference for how good you’re playing if you don’t know what a good build is capable of.
(edited by Brigg.6189)
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what OP has here. In a vacuum, war is a well designed class. I like the weapon designs and the trait layout (aside from a few flaws). You’ve already mentioned what I think the big problems are:
The base hp/armor given to war just does not seem high enough to compete with the damage mitgation and sustain mechanics given to other classes. It’s extremely difficult to win any prolonged fight against another class played well.
The AOE in the game makes it difficult for anyone but a bunker to play melee. Warrior and thief are hurt the most by this, and it gets doubly tough when you start throwing out lots of aoe cripple/chill.
or scale up asura height like SAB imo
Hundred blades is over 3.5s though =/. Using your numbers that’s half the dps. It cleaves sure, but that’s only situationally useful (like against rezzers)
I will look forward to all of this, thank you. Also i find that i need to practice more, i need to actually enter the game and play it until i manage to get the flow of the game. Which may take a little while, i dont know, all i know is that i’m thankful, i didnt even knew the community would be so helpful, and give a newbie such attention. Thank you
yeah, speaking of which, what is going on around here? Where’s the usual trolling and qq posts, is this the gw2 forums?
just assuming this isn’t a troll…
While it’s a strong ability sure, it’s also a counterplay ability with a big limitation on when it’s useful. You highlighted probably the strongest situation for the ability in the entire game, and even in this scenario the guardian could (and should) refrain from using SYS around the necro
yeah, one of the most underrated warrior traits
Yup looks like a solid loadout. Personally I’d recommend grabbing leg specialist for an axe/gs build, but seems like you’re making it work well without it.
Spike damage is very high in this game, and playing a glassy character (like thieves tend to be) requires quick and smart reactions. I’d recommend trying a class/build that’s a little tankier if you’re just starting out. BM ranger is a good place to start imo.
agreed. The attitude in chat during the match was even worse, it was frustrating.
Big credit to the guys for doing the casting and organizing of the event, but frankly I’d like to see more faces on the shoutcasting scene. Yes, blu is new to it and deserves slack, but I’d like to see more technical calls and overall polish on the events. Last event was fun, but difficult to listen to at times.
Maybe it was a rank S class all along before this patch, they just focus too much on the infamous ele and didn’t notice it.
^I think that’s the big reason.
Also my list:
S -
A -
Ranger +
Mesmer +
Guardian=
Engineer =
Elementalist =
Thief =
B -
Necromancer +
Warrior -
It’s an interesting build you have there, looks fun to play. I like the idea of shouts without trying to be a shout healer and you made good use of those points.
As for your question though, I think axe+sh/GS is probably the best war dueling build. Leg specialist should be used to help land eviscerate. I prefer using LB/GS against mesmers (and sometimes thieves) 1v1, but that’s about it.
Also just to throw it out there: I agree 1v1 is important, don’t discount team fighting. I run LB/GS because I think it’s a better team fighting build compared to axe/GS. The build you have here might be alright 1v1, but it should be a menace in team fights.
why should there be a rank cap at all?
GS/LB is a fantastic weapon base.
My biggest issue for the build is BM ranger. I cannot seem to deliver enough dps to get through the regen against a smart ranger Bull’s charge usually fails due to shared anguish trait, and LB#5→100b is mitigated by switching to melee and spamming evades. On point LB will deliver some decent damage, but not enough.
I tend to be much more successful vs. ranger with axe/shield instead of LB. You have an extra stun to proc shared anguish, and eviscerate damage adds good dps. Any thoughts on doing better with longbow?
I do agree with Varonth that WH is a good weapon (and underused), but making a full support build war is still a tough sell. Curing movement condis for your team is important, but so are aoe heals, defensive boons (prot and stability in particular), as well as reliably clearing high priority damage dots.
I think the best thing warrior can bring along those lines is more of a support/cc hybrid build. There’s certainly some valid options, just nothing that I could imagine shaking up the meta.
I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.
No, warriors have been trying shout and banner builds since beta, and it’s simply inferior to similar builds from other classes. Yes, you can supply good offensive boons and condi removal, but you have nowhere near the healing and escape moves of an ele. That’s why it works in pve, but not pvp.
Good work.
Also, when are we going to get an IDL vs. TP match?
Have you considered what this build would bring compared to a guardian bunker?
I’d give it a comparison like this:
CC -
Healing -
Condi removal =
Damage +
Mobility +
Damage mitigation =
So frankly I don’t think you have the healing to keep up in prolonged fights (1v1 or team) against good dps opponents. Also, you’re going to be completely out cc’d by a bunker guardian. A good guardian be able to cap a point out from under you without killing you.
So custom arena doesn’t have enough options to try all of this, but why not give it a best shot with what you have? Do a trial run to see if larger team fights would be fun in SPVP as a first step imo.
Yeah, it’s pretty much backstab thief with no stealth, no steal as a gap closer, a telegraphed backstab, and 2/3 of your utilities are spent on pure dps.
I’d say ranger is the top 1v1r now, and that’s why it’s getting the S votes.
From a glass cannon point of view:
If you can safely rez (good location, defensive or cc cooldowns available, or against a low dps opponent), A
If the fight is against a superior force, B
If the fight is against equal or inferior force, C.
Lyssa rune is ok condition removal, but I feel like using it with SoR is conflicting usage scenarios. SoR you typically want to use before a fight starts, but the condi removal you want during the fight.
Your best bet for condi removal is signet of stamina. This is not a utility in my “primary” build, but I often swap it in depending on the team I’m facing.
However last thing though: condi removal is not necessarily a must have item for warrior builds. A dps build can be designed around bursting through condi damage (i.e. you kill them before they kill you). For team fights you want to be paired with a class that can clear your condis (think ele, guardian, or necro).
I’ll bite though, what was a game with good balance?
Edit: Didn’t see the above post. Nvm, just don’t want to argue about this right now. I think devs are doing a flawed, but decent job. Frankly I’m happy all classes can at least perform competitively in GW (yes even warrior to a lesser extent).
(edited by Brigg.6189)
Godofallu is right on all points. Warrior used to have enough burst to win a race vs. condition damage classes, but these days I recommend sig of stamina for the condition cure. Use it wisely.
Frankly though, you’re going to get a mass of bad pvp advice here on the forum. Most good warriors have quit or rerolled. My advice for starting out, try this:
1) Find videos/streams of good warriors. Adopt their builds, emulate their playstyle. Once you understand how they play, and what makes their builds effective, then you can do your own experimentation. Point is the first thing you need to do is find out what a good build is capable of. Look up Defektive or Schwarenheit (blacktruth009) on twitch or youtube.
2) Do tournament pvp, just do it. Hotjoin is biased towards teamfights, and the quality of players/builds you’ll fight is so random that it’s almost impossible to judge your own effectiveness.
3) Learn how to play classes/builds that beat you, either by videos or by doing it yourself in the same way you learn warrior. You won’t reach a high level of play unless you understand their strengths and weaknesses
If you want any help getting started in game I can help, /w briggz.
Ranger should not die to a warrior in 1v1 (except maybe a glass build). It happens, but it’s only going to be if the ranger makes some serious kiting mistakes or poor pet choices.
So just brainstorming here: what are the big strengths of the pvp warrior right now?
1) Burst damage (GS, Rifle)
2) CC (hammer, mace, shield, LB)
3) Mobility (GS, sword, WH)
4) Offensive support (shouts, WH, banners, LB fire combos)
So rifle is a valid wvw burst damage option, although I feel you miss out in many situations due to lack of aoe. Also, as a leveling warrior with lower than average stats, your burst capability is probably low. That’s probably what’s holding you back.
I’d consider either switching to a cc role like hammer (just make sure you keep some mobility with either GS or sword as your off-set weapon), or maybe more of a support dps role. Both of those are going to be effective in a group only though.
Mace, hammer, BC, and most importantly longbow are all valid ways to self-set up 100b. The first 3 don’t have the duration to get a full 100b, but it’s still a large damage hit that can be done semi-frequently.
Now I’m not saying warrior is pvp balanced, I’m just saying I like the design. I wish more classes were designed with a similar mentality.
In any case, if you unroot and nerf 100b, it becomes just a vanilla dps ability to be used on CD in melee range. That makes it sounds extremely uninteresting to me, and frankly more of a step towards facerollishness. I think there’s a lot of other ways to buff warrior, and buff other weapons at the same time, that should be looked at first.
Still running GS/LB in solo queues and staying ranked.
There are many war abilities that can be combo’d with 100b, and even more so when playing with other classes.
I think it’s a well designed ability and weapon.
Maybe the simplicity is part of it, but I was leaning more to the feel of the class. While there’s not as many buttons as an ele, the weapon abilities are fairly distinct, and typically have big impacts. It doesn’t usually feel “spammy” to me, which isn’t always the case with other classes.