Guild Wars 2

In theory both precision strike (lol precision..) and ua working as intended. They are supposed to hit everything in their radius. If you cast them, you hit yellow mobs, you hit ambient mobs and you hit.. random objects. They cannot be damaged or anything, but they are still there.

Its not something that you can fix unless you rework these skills to single target. Simple as that.

But nvm the thing is.. rev is the most broken class Noone has so many bugs. Most of them are terrain related as our skills was designed in some weird way that i dont understand at all

Bovan.9481:

Responded in the reddit topic as well, this really isn’t as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Our damage is fine and our class still functions normally. The only thing that is a big issue at the moment is Precision Strike’s projectiles flying off all over the place into environmental objects.

19k dps in raids is not fine /shrug

And lol about “fuctions normally”. My list would like to have a word with you.

Teutos.8620:

I just managed to repeat it again. 1 precision strike hit 6 times for a total of ~8k damage.

The opponent was a mesmer, in the down state, on clock tower right next to the wall (the little edge next to the capture point, not the one wall of the tower itself).

Could you make a vid? I am not able to reproduce it at all.

Thats not just sword. Its seems to be ALL weapon skills and utilities.

Gg, wp Anet… really wp.

SlyDevil.3952:

tandrli.3854:

if i press 6,7,8,9 from signet it does not change…after 2sec it goes back to signet again so for example i cant have stacking speed

This is a bug with entering and leaving water. If you’re encountering this swap glint to another legend(don’t legend swap) then re-equip it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/454fjv/revenant_sword_skills_are_not_affected_by_weapon/

In response to this reddit thread, his statement is correct(at least rift slash/prec strike).

My attacks were varying by around 10% regardless of ascended vs basic quality swords on the same target(difference of 53 power of 2556(2%)). Ascended has almost double the weapon strength as basic. It’s definitely not taking the mainhand sword as the weapon strength.

Just tested on my own with level 10 wep and lv 6x dire..

And.. wow. I dont know what to say but thats a serious gamebreaking issue as the damage loss is huge in this case. Checking out and its the same for utility skills as well. Game doesnt take into account weapon strength at all. Feel free to salvage your ascended weapons.

Wtf Anet?

draxynnic.3719:

Regarding Enchanted Daggers:

So, it’s weak when used as an emergency heal? If you do land all the daggers, ~6500 base heal with a 1.45 coefficient is one of the strongest heals out there, especially when you consider that you’re playing the only profession that has two slot-6 heals available on separate cooldowns.

Two slots, both of which has 30 cd and are weak on their own. And being honest.. damage is not something you should look at when we talk about healing skill.. you know, a skill that is supposed to keep you alive. And while other classes cant have 2 heals at once, they have multiple ways to get extra healing from weapon skills/traits. For example full medi dh;

6k from healing skill (24cd)+2 condi removal and decent insta damage
4k from f2 on 26cd and 3 condi removal
Smite boon insta decent damage, 2 condi removal, 2k heal
Contemplation – full condi conversion to boons, 2k heal, 32cd
JI – insta teleport which also heals 2k on 36cd.

All medi also offer aoe fury.

See the amount of reliable healing (except f2)? Should i mention meta classes aka scrapper or druid? No? Moving on then.

Sure, it’s possible that if it was chosen on its own, it wouldn’t see much play. However, revenant utility skills aren’t chosen on their own, but as part of a set, and as mentioned before Shiro is possibly the most popular revenant legend. While I understand it’s frustrating when a weakness of your build kills you, that suggests that the package as a whole is doing okay despite a ‘weak’ heal.

Shiro is mostly picked for one skill – riposting shadow. The only real stunbreak (outside of Glint with 20cd) we have right now. Its main reason why you want Shiro. It even better bc you gain endurance and remove soft cc. Mobility is not something i consider in Shiro as its bugged as kitten and doesnt work most of the time.

Which brings us to your comment about Inspiring Reinforcement being something you can’t swap out. Yes, the way revenant works, you pick out skills as a set of five rather than cherrypicking the ones you want. However, the energy mechanic means that if you have a skill that’s not useful for the specific situation, you can save the energy for the skills that are. I don’t see that picking out instances where it’s not useful negates those that are (recognising, again, that it was overnerfed in BWE3 and should be partially reverted to its former state).

Already mentioned in previous post.

With Soothing Stone… if the problem is that it has an obvious tell which makes it more interruptable, maybe the balancing factor is to reduce the tell? The block from Shelter is just too good to add willy-nilly to an already decent healing skill. (Really, if it was transplanted into any profession except ranger or warrior, it would probably see play, and other professions don’t back it up with a second heal skill.)

I can imagine only mesmer picking it up honestly. And even then i have doubts.

(Seriously, don’t underestimate the effect of the two heals. If we take the two simplest heals, Soothing Stone and Empowering Misery are a total of 10100 healing every 30 seconds with a 2.0 coefficient, without fulfilling the condition for bonus healing on Empowering Misery. How many other professions can match that on the 6 skill alone, without fulfilling conditions? Rangers can, but Troll Unguent is no emergency heal. Include supplemental sources and the competition gets stiffer, but that gets complicated, and revenants have supplemental healing sources too…)

And thats why theres no reason to keep Shiro heal as it is. We can already pick up 2 reliable heal. Does it cause issues? No. Problem is Jalis that just sux utility wise.

Hp/s also drops down a bit due to 2 heals btw. As for other professions? Pretty much any except thief can match it.

Look at necro https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
More effective empowering misery? Indeed. Can also be trained for 20cd. But what for? Its good as it is for 30cd.

Sort of second heal https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Locust
The most fun fact? Unlike precision strike or UA it actually gets stronger in teamfights or vs pet class. What a sad joke, right?

JayAction.9056:

Burtnik.5218:

Please show me how i can maintain perma swiftness on revenant with devastation, retribution, invocation traitlines without stopping in place for a 5 seconds or hammer weapon. Super speed ooc works like swiftness and has only 50% uptime, i rather use the energy for PT. Thats stupid.

Dev, Ret, Inv traitlines?

1. I don’t even…
2. Use teleport in shiro.
3. You rather give up IN COMBAT functionality for OUT OF COMBAT functionality? Do you take fall traits too? lol

Some people doesnt run Glint nor herald, or at least they dont want to.
But obviously you missed point of these changes in the first place. Have a good day.

Ps. i take fall damage in keep when i troll around, the animation and sound is cool and i hope a future elite spec will make use of it

draxynnic.3719:

Okay, so the first arrows landing before the Rite was something you took into account. The video doesn’t show the combat log, so it wasn’t clear: I had to figure it out by pause-go methods.

Still, Rapid Fire is something that will normally put someone into “oh kitten!” mode unless they block it. And I’ve suggested putting a block on it.

Regarding your pros and cons:

For Facet of Chaos, you’ve listed a pro as being able to be used any time as long as it’s not on cooldown (Chaotic Release).

What you’ve missed, as a pretty significant con, is that you can only turn it off by using Facet of Chaos, legend-switching, or running your energy dry. All of which are going to limit when you can reasonably reactivate it next. RotGD requires a big chunk of energy to use, of course, so Facet of Chaos still has the advantage that it can be switched on at lower energy levels, but the fact remains that once Facet of Chaos is turned on it can be awkward to turn off.

On Rite, you’ve missed the pro that, if traited, it also provides damage resistance to conditions.

You’ve also inflated the list of cons by listing what are essentially the same cons twice. Not having the energy to use Rite is a consequence of having the high energy cost. Being able to be interrupted is a consequence of having a cast time (1.25s isn’t huge, it’s about average).

And my suggestions cover both of those cons. Covering the cast time with a block or invulnerability means the cast time itself is less of a disadvantage, and certainly stops it from being easily interrupted. That in itself would probably justify the casting cost, but if it doesn’t, I’m open to reducing the cost. That covers all of the cons you’ve listed without rebuilding the skill, and consequently needing to rebuild Vengeful Hammers in turn.

50 energy for a block/invul for 1.25sec is still too much. Look from the different perspective.

With Shiro i can riposte shadow – half of rapid fire evaded, i gain endurance and dodge.. At best i take one shot, no big deal.

With Ventari (sorry, bad joke) i can activate deflecting shield and dont care about his longbow at all. Paired with hammer i can keep deflect at 100% uptime unless i will be forced to swap, aka someone else join to help him.

Glint can convert all incoming damage into healing, or apply protection and reduce it damage a bit.

Meanwhile Jalis who is more about facetanking stuff, should be at least effective or better than Glint in that role. In current state not even close. As i said many times theres no reason to pick up Jalis over Glint. Glint offers way more than Jalis, shes superior at sustain, tank and support role and generally fill any build and situation due to her flexible kit.

Meanwhile what Jalis has? Laughable road that is not usable outside of conquest point, and still remains as junk even with your suggestion (1 stack for 4sec at the cost of 30 energy, really? Cus standing in road is definitely not an option, also 10cd.), unreliable hammers which can hurt you more than help depending on situation (like scrapper with perma retal), high energy cost taunt that can be.. reflected. And rite being slighty stronger than regular protection for a cost out of cosmos.

Like i said many times before, if rite is supposed to stay the way it is, it should provide immunity to direct damage like endure pain. But its aoe cus lore? Well too bad, but thats not my problem in this case if someone trying to balance around lore. +Looking at Glint, do we really need support on Jalis? I think not.

Youre right that i missed -50% to condi damage but then again.. it doesnt change much. Condi bomb will wreck Jalis regardless of this buff.

The pros with Glint and facet is also the fact that before i run out of energy my swap will be ready. So far i have not experienced energy issues on Glint, most of the time i actually swap with over 60 energy if i dont need protection.

draxynnic.3719:

It’s hard to see what’s going on here, but it looks like you took the first two thousand damage before Rite triggered.

Rite activated on 1,7k mark.. Wolf or mob damage doesnt matter as damage from other sources doesnt stack. See pic.

By comprasion facet to rite

*Pros of facet;

-Pulsing protection every 3sec at cost of -5, can be used pretty much at any time unless someone wasted it for joke chaotic release
-Aoe up to 5 targets
-Insta cast, which means i can use it under cc
-Much higher or close to perma duration depending on what you doing.

Cons;

-protection can be corrupted, stripped/stealed
(But in the end it doesnt matter as it will be reapplied 1 sec later)
-17% lower reduction than rite

*Pros of rite;
-17% higher reduction than protection
-Aoe 5 target
-Not stripable
-In theory a stunbreak

Cons;
-Huge energy cost
-Huge animation cast
-Most of the time there wont be enough energy to cast it
-Can be interrupted easily

JayAction.9056:

Wait… Let me understand this. You want to remove vicious lacerations in exchange for a passive 25% movement speed increase on a class that can easily maintain 100% uptime on swiftness or use super speed on demand? That’s stupid, sorry.

Please show me how i can maintain perma swiftness on revenant with devastation, retribution, invocation traitlines without stopping in place for a 5 seconds, hammer weapon or Jalis. Im waiting. Super speed ooc works like swiftness and has only 50% uptime, i rather use the energy for PT. Thats stupid, sorry.

draxynnic.3719:

Regarding the video:

Meanwhile, those two thieves are kittening about how the two of them almost got beaten by a noob rev – moar nurfs plz.

Seriously, though, what I’m seeing there is that you went 1v2 and would have won except that you didn’t have a good answer to stealth. Sure, you could argue that the thief players were bad or that you did so well partially because it was WvW and you had advantages the thieves didn’t, but it’s not exactly persuading me that the skills you were using are so bad as to need rebuilding from the ground up.

Could have won it at the start tbh, notice that i swapped with over 60 energy in Shiro which i could use for jade winds but i thought it will be a nice material to support my points.

Using combinations of skills synergistically has been what Guild Wars has been about since 2004. So no, I don’t think “being forced” to use Vengeful Hammers to trigger all six daggers is a bad thing – I think it’s good use of the properties of different skills.

Yes, Shiro is supposed to be aggressive… which is why his heal skill is focused around remaining in combat. This may be a balancing factor as well as thematic: Shiro revs are hard to catch, and a stronger initial heal might well make it too easy for them to disengage, heal, then reengage.

Making the full current heal instantaneous (or even close to the full current heal) and having a big boost to six of your next few attacks would make it a ridiculously strong skill. Given that Assassin Stance is probably the most popular stance right now (since condi revs have typically been using Mallyx/Shiro), it seems to be doing fairly well even with the downsides of Enchanted Daggers.

Using a combination of skills is fine. Using a combination of skills to get your heal off is just lame and pathetic. In fact they could have easily stealth or kite to waste my skill. Which class has so much counter to healing ability? Not thief for sure with evade on withdraw that has no counterplay whatsoever. Pretty sure if i had Mallyx instead of Jalis with hammers i would die 100-0 as wouldnt be able to trigger daggers at all.

Meanwhile on dh i use litany wrath which is also aggressive but does much better job – trained 6k hp off the cast+extra (usually up to 5k in pvp) by playing aggressive. Im also pretty sure that you wont really escape from most classes using Shiro btw unless you have a target to cast PT.

Shiro healing is definitely too weak in current state to be any good. In all game modes except in pve where it used mostly as dps boostersduring boss encounters rathen than healing skill which should tell you something already.

I dont think i need to explain why WHAO was changed. It wasnt used as healing ability but as copy dem boons instead. ED has similiar situation, its used as dps boost rather than healing ability.

And like i said even if we go by lore it doesnt fit really. Lore actually support Shiro to be kitten in 1vX situation, my vid proves otherwise. Shiro ingame is 1v1 focused.

In a previous discussion, you boasted about how Shiro allowed you to avoid damage that another stance would have to take in the face (reduced or otherwise). In another thread, you’re claiming that revenant needs to be made into a non-weaponswap profession because of the potential to chain blocks and other defences together. Have you considered that the weakness of Enchanted Daggers as an emergency heal – unless you can cover it with those blocks and evades you claim are too much until you can trigger all the daggers – may actually be a balancing factor to offset all that?

Difference between Shiro ability and weapon skills is energy cost. 30 energy for riposte is not cheap compared to 2sec block for 10 energy. Covering the daggers by wasting cooldowns is not really a wise decision. First daggers has extremely low timer, its quite rare to proc all 6 actually. They get dodged, deflected/reflected or blocked quite often.

Second by wasting defensive abilities to cover one crappy healing skill im leaving myself vulnerable to burst.

Buff Enchanted Daggers in the way you’re asking for, and I think it will require those other nerfs elsewhere.

In which area? Removed damage from Shiro heal? Well im totally fine with that.

(I’m also curious that you didn’t at least try before activating Jalis. It may not have felt like it at the time, but looking at the video, there was probably enough time to activate ED, switch, and activate the hammers… which may have bought you enough time to get Soothing Stone off and for the NPCs to arrive.)

It wouldnt make any difference. Shiro has only 1,6k on activation so in the end i would still end up one shoted.

With the changes I’d suggested, you could use it to get 3-4 seconds of stability on initial use, and then pass over it again once that expires to get more – don’t need to be on the road for its entire duration to get the benefit. Even without that, though, sometimes a skill just isn’t the perfect one for the situation you’re in. This happens to every build, unless you’re in PvE reconfiguring your build against the specific content.

Thats the point. Its not really a practical skill nor really useful. Should i remind you that i cannot swap this skill?There are many areas in HOT where road is useless as well. For example Vinetooth in Auric. Anywhere outside of a point in conquest or static pve boss that stands in one place, road is absolutely useless. My suggestion actually brings it up to usable level in all game modes. Imagine necros being forced to stand in small field for stab in shroud 3.. oh boy.

I’ve found that sometimes they do a great job at keeping you alive, sometimes the incoming damage is just too much. Defenses aren’t supposed to be perfect. Sometimes they buy you just enough time to win. Sometimes they get overwhelmed and you die. That’s the game.

Hammers wouldnt be that bad if damage reduction was raised to 33% and didnt deactiveted due to terrain issues. But then again previous before nerf interraction was much better when it had the possibility to hit for twice as much it does now.

See previous comments about everyone’s heals being interruptable, with a very short list of exceptions (Infuse Light being one of them, as long as you have Facet of Light running post-nerf).

With the difference that soothing stone has very clear and slow animation. Also the vul part applies to example ~2;45 where i run away and during the heal animation thief nukes me hard. You think he would do anything if i had block? Nope. And if i had Glint? Yummy yummy hp.

Doesnt look so tanky, right? My ranger has 1sec on WHAO too btw but its not that highly telegraphed with a big icon above your head “interrupt me nao noob” and it has many tools to cover it – stealth being one of them.

As previously noted, you’re not losing damage, you’re dividing it. Sure, you’d probably prefer to keep it concentrated, by my preferred approach is to increase the damage in such situations to compensate for the loss of focus.

Dividing is equal to losing when we talk about single target. And as it stands now it happen only with precision and ua. In the whole game.

I think I see the spot you’re talking about – around 2:20? A straight stun might have helped – then again, it might not. If you’d used Grasping Shadows, it also might have helped (if it landed on the other (stealthed) thief, then switch to Shiro, PT in, and resume the beatdown). You may even have pulled off an old-fashioned stomp if you’d started it right away.

If it was stun instead of a pull with shadowstep back it wouldnt matter really. Cus even if i fail to hit thief and hit the downed body instead i wont be shadowstepped back at least. Thats is huge on it own. I also had swap on cd so pt wasnt really possible there.

As for the stomp..i doubt it. Rez happens too fast in this game. Funny i wasnt able to outdps rez with hammers and sword auto..

Updating a bit the list.

• Deva;
  1. Assassins Annihilator – removed from suggestion, sry hammer
  2. Dismantle Fortifications – changed to strip 5 stability stacks. Foes under 5 stacks will get cced. Sounds okay, too much?

• Shiro. Phase traversal – removed insta cast

• Sword mh. Precision strike coe reduced to 2.25

• Corruption. Frigid Precision – additional effect changed to provide 3 stacks of vul when chilling foe, no icd.

• Mallyx;

Pain Absortion – Provides 2sec of resistance by default on cast. No longer provides resistance from transfered conditions. Increased burning duration to 4sec

Embrace the Darkness – Changed to allow allies cleanse conditions off rev during the duration of this skill

• Retribution;

1. Eye For an Eye – removed icon from rev bar
2. Versed in Stone – removed from suggestion for now
3. Steadfast Rejuvenation – removed option 1, i doubt its realistic.

• Hammer.

1. Phase smash removed
2. Field of the Mists – 3/4sec casttime, in additional to projectile deflecting field launch foes (600 distance) in front of you so it doesnt feel completely useless when fighting non projectile class.

• Salvation

1. Serene Rejuvenation. Sugestion removed
2. Tranquil Benediction. Healing from a block reduced to 330 (0.5)
3. Invoking Harmony change slipped in notes. 20% to healing output at all times rather than for 10sec on swap.
4. .Momentary Pacification – reduced immobilize to 2sec

• Ventari

1. Ventari Will – added 1/4 casttime
2. Protective Solace – projectile conversion removed. -10 energy on cast so it can feel punishing for activating/deactivating.

Controversial stuff that need more feedback;

1. Enchanted Daggers
2. Precision Strike
3. UA
4. Grasping Shadow
5. Opportune Extraction
6. Soothing Stone
7. Vengeful Hammers
8. Rite of the Dwarf

Insta heal in Ventari is nothing gamebreaking. Bc it doesnt heal a lot in the first place. Also many doesnt know (more like mes is dead) but you can end up with project tranquility on 15 cd to one lucky power block rendering your whole legend completely useless as you wont be able to summon tablet. That is, sir, some kitten bs.

Varezenem.2813:

DeceiverX.8361:

And the statements about sPvP are just blatantly untrue.

Have you tried to use, our lord and savior, Ventari in SPvP?

I did. Ventari Will one shot ppl.. wait.

I can also prevent enemy from capturing point. I just put tablet on mid and go somewhere, as long the tablet sis on point it prevent cap. Enemy team is usually hopeless vs me.

Cyninja.2954:

…. datamined versions? Really?

That is the concept that could be used to rev instead of bandaid lazy weapon swap.
One of many, btw.

lighter.2708:

haha, i was the one of few people who said no when everybody and their moms cried for weapon swap, now they have every thing getting nerfed for it, and that ONE " clearly knows what hes saying" guy who QQ’ed the most and argued the most, is long gone

Pretty much. Nothing else to add here. Weapon swap was never a real solution to address issues with rev. It was obvious that rev would suffer later on and balance notes since launch confirms that. More to come next update. Wont be surprised if staff for example end up with 15cd on it block.

draxynnic.3719:

Most heals can be easily interrupted if someone manages to land one in time. If you look at the most popular healing skills for each profession in PvP, almost all have cast times of a second or more and no protection against being interrupted.

The counter to the possibility of interruption is to not let yourself get interrupted… or to drop a road first and then heal, or, as you say for RotGD, dodge and then heal. Note, though, that protection of stability is something I was considering in the proposal to make all dwarf skills covered by stability through a trait – once you’ve added stability to Soothing Stone, Inspiring Reinforcement and RotGD, you might as well add it to everything.

Rev has 2 healing skills tho, for that reason he need a bit faster casttimes. Not sure if retal doesnt fit dwarf better btw (looking at healing skill) but problem is we have one Jalis trait actually.. It could also be abused by vengeful hammers – i can already imagine reactivating it over and over just for stab. Those are the thing you have to take into account. Trait with icd? Hm..no ty. Unless this game allow me to see hidden cd’s ill never support them.

I’d contest that. Hallowed Ground has a longer duration and secondary benefits as well. I’d certainly consider it if it had a short enough recharge, either on its own or in conjunction with Stand Your Ground.

Theres not much use Hallowed Ground outside of spvp point so i dont really see a reason to even consider it, let it be pve, and even more so in wvw. A zerk rev wont be able to stay on a point btw so that actually eliminates road from Jalis kit – and we dont have 4th utility to swap it.

You’re trying to claim it’s worthless, but 50% reduction of all damage for you and your allies is actually pretty noticeable.

My vid disagrees. If Rite reduction was any good i would be able to stand much more than i am able to do so atm.

I could have used block instead but i needed some material. 5,5k from rapid fire.. with protection it would be only 17% more aka 6,4k, 10% in case of tempest – 6k.

I have 2650 toughness btw. In my eyes Rite is worthless for 50 energy cost, huge cast, low duration. Imho if rite is supposed to stay it they way it is it should definitely reduce damage by 100% like endure pain. You cant hurt stone after all, right?

When i look at my vid i wonder what bs it is actually. Now what if it was under group focus? I would melt. Hard. 50% is worthless. Necro in Shroud gains 50% reduction. Most necros ingame doesnt even know about that reduction. And for a good reason.

But nvm, here is the problem.. going by lore it should be a group skill which means i am left with one less skill playing solo as it is balanced around group gameplay. What should win here in this case? Worthless utility for non bunker herald in the name of lore or actual gameplay making it useful for all types for rev?

Changing from an upkeep skill to a regular skill is a pretty fundamental rework

Kinda, but the concept itself doesnt change. You still have spinning hammers, they still do the same job.

Dwarfs are builders, so that’s probably exactly the effect they were going for. Also, there were people who loved it in its pre-BWE3 state. There was a video of someone playing a PvP match during the beta weekends who was abusing the kitten out of it.

Are dwarfs roadmens now? Well..thats new. I do know they are builders but i still fail to see connection to roads. That vid was probably me btw.. I know i had one like that where i spammed Jalis road off cd in spvp and didnt used anything else really.

Now the questions as i uploaded my mlg vid with 2 noob thieves
https://youtu.be/qdYIhaOfkns

1. Shiro heal – do you its okay that i am forced to use vengeful hammers just to trigger them? Be honest, if it wasnt for hammers they would wreck me under all these ckittentle chance to actually trigger them outside of UA under presented pressure. That doesnt really fit Shiro being the macho jumping into horde of enemies and wiping floor with them, does it?

Min 3..if i tried to trigger em i would die, simple as that. Shiro healed me for a whole.. 1,6k on 30cd. Wohoo? Op nerf nao.

At the end of the vid? Doesnt matter if i casted them or not.. no chance to trigger without dying = worthless healing skill that doesnt do it job.

So yep, i see no reason to keep it in current state. You may say its l2p issue or something, but it happens to all revs in the game all the time. Even from oRNG as i have seen on my own eyes Daishi (i think that was him name) melting with 5 daggers left.

2. Do you think dwarf road would be useful in this fight when i jump all over the place? Stand on it and let them do w/e they want? Yeah, good idea. Lets die for 1 stack of stab, np. Worthless skill outside of conquest point.

3. I gottay say the hammers did great work at keeping me alive, but thats due to carrying poorly designed Shiro heal mostly, life siphon traits+lifesteal food. 20% reduction is just weak.

4. Im too vulnerable during Jalis heal. It would be way different it it had mentioned block so i could prevent a lot of damage. With Glint i would faceroll them tbh. But i thought it will be a good material for a vid so i wanted to fight them instead and record it.. and well i dont play herald in pvp anymore either way.

5. Damage from precision strike and ua is reduced way too much when 2+ targets show up. The projectiles at range miss too much as well. UA breaking on stealth doesnt help either – it wouldnt happen if it was single target skill.

6. Grasping Shadow. If it was a stun i could use that and maybe hit the rezzing thief, but bc it would teleport me back if i hit downed body is too much of a risk to even try.

Prepatch i would deal 10% damage from auto and precision strike would be just like it is now -1 projectile. “Singling out enemies” what a bad joke it is?

(Btw. Fix sword block, at one point its noticeable in vid that i take hit beforeblock animation goes off. Thief slow is broken as kitten too.)

“Keep in mind, too, that the evade frames in the ‘traverse through the Mists’ skills”

I have to disagree in case of UA i think. Datamined version had prevent capture point which implies that you had invul actually

http://i.imgur.com/SjX7u2A.png

Lets also not forget that some of datamined skills was better than what we have now (while were at it, dagger would be better than sword offhand btw), for example sword grasping shadow has 600 range in datamined pic, shield 4 cures one condi and staff looks much more interesing than the support/utility junk we have atm (pic above for staff)

http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg

“The idea of having a function key to switch modes of a weaponset is an interesting one”

Remember datamined skills for guard?

1. Puncture Shot (DPS Stance): Fire an arrow which pierces enemies, damaging them and causing vulnerability.
1. Puncture Shot (Support Stance): Fire an arrow which pierces enemies. When the arrow passes through an ally it will heal them for a small amount.
2. Light Arrow (DPS Stance): Charge up energy, creating a powerful attack which pierces through enemies.
2. Light Arrow (Support Stance): Charge up energy coating your arrow with light, causing it to heal allies which it passes through.
3. Symbol of Battle (DPS Stance): Fire a slow arcing arrow which explodes on impact, burning targets and searing a symbol of battle into the ground.
3. Symbol of Battle (Support Stance): Fire a slow arcing arrow which explodes on impact, healing allies and searing a symbol of energy into the ground.
4. Protector’s Chain (DPS Stance): Fire an arrow attached with a chain of light. The chain will attach itself to the target, pulling in and crippling other nearby enemies.
4. Protector’s Chain (Support Stance): Fire an arrow attached with a chain of light. The chain will attach itself to the target, knocking back and crippling other nearby enemies.
5. Zealot’s Retribution Stance: Zealot’s Retribution Stance changes your weapon skills to damage and debuff enemies.
5. Protector’s Light Stance: Your longbow skills focus on supporting and aiding allies

It could be applied as our 5 skill or f2. In the long run rev will suffer due to wep swap. Thats what happen when you do lazy fix.

In case of scrapper.. they can always take mortal as ranged option but the question is.. for what?

Sword 2 now hits downed players. Enjoy. It still track random objects in the world tho, same as UA.

Cyninja.2954:

Burtnik.5218:

Staff – used for breakbars
Hammer – used in pve when melee is too risky option or when someone like me is just lazy
Shield – no use since nerf
Sword offhand – little use unless you need block
Axe – dps boost to sword, pull to stack up trash mobs
Mace – useless due to torment in pve
Sword – messed up and bugged as kitten

I play in all formats. Sure there are things that weapon swap is useful but does it worth all the nerfing that happened lately? Fun fact is that people still complain about rev, i was actually surprised that we didnt received any nerf in this patch

See, I knew you were assuming that weapon swaps and nerf had to do with each other. They do not.

Here is a train of thought: removing weapon swap will not get revenant weapons buffed.

I didnt mentioned buffs to weapon skills tho, i mentioned future nerfs that will happen in future. Thats a bit different situation.

Imho its interesing that ele and engi has no wep swap and no issues yet they wasnt able to come up with a proper solution for rev and went for lazy fix instead.

draxynnic.3719:

On Soothing Stone: Your change would make it into Shelter with the Smiter’s Boon and Healer’s Retribution traits thrown in for free, so that’s not unique either. If you want to make it unique, give it something genuinely unique rather than copying off another skill. For the purpose of reducing spikes, one possibility could be to provide the protective petrification effect of RotGD on activating Soothing Stone, to enhance the stone theme. (Possibly even make it so that if you use it when you’re already stone, you get extra healing in lieu of turning to stone.)

My main gripe is this heal being quite easy to interrupt unlike Glint and that unlike Glint, Jalis has no ow kitten button. Block seems to the most reasonable option in this case as you have counterplay to it. We could ofc change it to stone theme where you take 0 damage from direct attack like endure pain, evade (which doesnt fit dwarfs) or invul which lack counterplay.

While your idea sounds cool i have to ask what if someone just interrupt their own healing to gain the buff? We can prevent this situation by putting the skill on full cd in this case but then again.. what stop someone from interrupting your heal without effort? Stab could be the answer but with the amount of boon strip/steal/corruption its not really a viable option anymore. Im interesing to hear your idea about that one

draxynnic.3719:

On Inspiring Reinforcement: Hallowed Ground doesn’t get used in PvP because it has a recharge of over a minute, even with Master of Consecrations. If it had a recharge of 30s or less, allowing for uptime similar to Inspiring Reinforcement, I’d bet it would see a lot more play, especially in the current control-heavy meta. The problems with Inspiring Reinforcement is that it’s easy to see it activating and hit the revenant before they get the first pulse, and that the stability goes away immediately on departing the road. My proposed changes would address those

Even with reduced recharge it wont see much play as stand your ground is superior by miles. 5 insta aoe stab stack in 600 radius. Problem with these abilities is that like i mentioned earlier – they are not practical in this game desing.

On Rite of the Great Dwarf: Thematically, this is a sister skill to Jade Winds. It’s not something that needed upkeep, it was something that was performed and then it was permanent. The main difference between the two, in fact, is that the Jade Wind was indiscriminate and the petrification was fatal, while Rite of the Great Dwarf only affected dwarves and the dwarves were turned into living stone rather than dead statues.

Obviously, you can’t have one Rite of the Great Dwarf used in the countdown turn your entire team to living stone for the match, any more than you can have a Jade Winds cast instantly win the match by turning all your enemies into stone permanently. So the effect has a limited duration and wears off, unlike the historical Rite which was permanent. However, it’s still emphatically not something that can be turned on and off like an upkeep skill.

You do realize that you should not balance the skill or a profession around the lore right? Following lore you should be able to see all invisible, be completely immune to blinds, impossible odds transfer condi, grasping shadow would banish your target into another dimension.

While it is generally wrong against lore, it makes more sense to make it as upkeep instead from balance point, otherwise you end up with half fuctional skill. It has potential to be broken in teamfights when paired with protection, but useless elsewhere if you dont have anything to support it. High energy, long cast, short duration, weak effect on it own thus useless for rev outside of teamfight if you dont have protection (herald). So atm we have a skill that is nearly useless to rev, but decent to allies. As far i remember Jalis was supposed to be the tanky one for rev.

Now while it has potential to be decent with herald, question is.. should we balance core to elite spec or elite spec to core? Cus we both know that more and more elites show up in the future. Not sure about you but i dont want to end up in a situation where one legend is good with x elite spec, but complete trash with another one.

The main problem with Rite is that it’s easily interrupted (especially crippling as a stunbreak). A block or invulnerability covering the casting time would prevent that (or at least make it harder) while also allowing for a more immediate benefit if it’s the user that’s being subjected to a spike. If the cost/benefit balance is still out, then the cost can be discounted or the duration of the effect increased. No need to make it an upkeep skill and thus even less need to destroy and replace Whirling Hammers, a skill that many people like (apart from the issue with autocancellation on hammer destruction).

Generally speaking you can cover Rite with stab on dodge so thats not really a issue unless you use it to stunbreak.. which wont happen a lot.
And who said i plan to destroy vengeful hammers? They can still be here just not as upkeep. Recasting them once every 5sec is not a big deal i believe.

draxynnic.3719:

Overall, I know you hate it, but many people do like Jalis and consider it to just require a few fixes to be competitive rather than being turned into something entirely different. Taking something that almost works and rebuilding it from the ground up would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater and angering the people who like its current style and just want to hammer out its flaws.

I dont think theres many people who like road actually. Hammers i can understand – love them myself but road..i still dont know what road has to do with dwarfs? If it was Bob the Builder legend then i could understand it at least.

draxynnic.3719:

On Ventari: The biggest concern I have is that making Protective Solace into a conversion shield like druid staff 4 seems too strong. Druid staff 4 can be countered by navigating around the wall or waiting it out (along with other ways of dealing with projectile blockers, such as going melee or using non-projectile ranged attacks). A bubble that can be moved almost at will by the user and which can last for as long as the user has the resource to power it is much harder to get around.

Im moving away from that idea so doesnt matter.

Btw soon i will upload a vid.. and based on that i will ask few questions.

Staff – used for breakbars
Hammer – used in pve when melee is too risky option or when someone like me is just lazy
Shield – no use since nerf
Sword offhand – little use unless you need block
Axe – dps boost to sword, pull to stack up trash mobs
Mace – useless due to torment in pve
Sword – messed up and bugged as kitten

I play in all formats. Sure there are things that weapon swap is useful but does it worth all the nerfing that happened lately? Fun fact is that people still complain about rev, i was actually surprised that we didnt received any nerf in this patch

Varezenem.2813:

As far as I can remember we got weapon swap and shiro for BWE1 and Herald on BWE2.

Youre right. Memory failed me. Questio is did it really improved rev all that much? Mmmhm.. not even close to herald i believe in the end.

Cyninja.2954:

I disagree that weapon swap was added to give revenants a ranged option.

It was added because the class was very boring and not very engaging to play. It still is simply due to the very constricted nature of having almost no build possibilities.

Before arenanet make any changes, they need to figure out what and how they want to design and keep designing revenant. Removing weapon swamp right now would kill the class.

That being said, the entire concept of utility swaping is very wonky. The game is not designed around this kind of balance. All the other 8 classes are designed with different combinations of utilities in mind. Revenant fixed utilities makes it very hard to hit that sweetspot between overpowered and underpowered.

Weapon swap, base revenant legends and herald are 3 completely different things. Removing weapon swap will not fix the other 2 problems. Weapon swap did not fix revenant, but it provides at least some form of customisation and maybe a way for arenanet to futher balance the class while making the class as a whole more engaging.

Burtnik.5218:

Was weapon swap useful for me back then? Yes and no. It was QoL change and i could use hammer as opening weapon, but once i swapped to s/s i camped it till the end. Im still doing that btw. But what if you dont use hammer and go for staff instead? It starts to becoming a little broken as rev can spam blocks like no class in this game, even more so if you use warrior runes.

So your main argument against weapon swap is the fact that you can get multiple blocks from different offhand weapons. That’s a very limited view on what weapon swap allows and is good for. This complaint could easily be fixed by changing one of the offhand weapons skillsets.

By the time Anet figure what they want to do with rev ill be old with long white bear.
Looking around..what warrior is supposed to do? Mesmer? Ele after nerf? I know what rev is supposed to do at least – mimic other professions via legends. Question is if Anet understand that tho. I dont think removing weapon swap would kill the class tho (as i basically play without wep swap atm)

Overall i start to think that we should have ended with f1-4 like ele in the end. Someone kittened up.

“So your main argument against weapon swap is the fact that you can get multiple blocks from different offhand weapons. That’s a very limited view on what weapon swap allows and is good for. This complaint could easily be fixed by changing one of the offhand weapons skillsets”

Which might make some weapons even more trash than they was. Atm i consider only mace/axe being in viable state as sword was messed up last patch, shield n hammer deleted. But in the end we will get nerfed both weapon skills, traits and utilities. Look at balance updates since launch.

MrHarses.6801:

Hum… What about no legend swap too as I suppose you never swap out of Glint ?

Just kidding… mute this guy -_-

I have not used Glint (or herald traitline) over a month already in spvp/wvw. But in open pve thats true.. i never swap out.. no point buhaha

Glint masterrace. N1 in passive gameplay. Reminds me the old launch days where i played x5 signet war and never used my utility skills.. Not even once.

fluidmonolith.3584:

During HoT betas, Rev was pretty bad without weapon swap, and I think most of us agree that weapon weapon swap has made Rev not just much better, but viable.

Thats the thing i mentioned already. Wep swap was added along with herald traitline and Glint. I was running s/s in beta and the difference between core and herald was huge. Not much changes since then. Even with weapon swap core rev still sux balls in all game modes and is much harder to play than herald.

Was weapon swap useful for me back then? Yes and no. It was QoL change and i could use hammer as opening weapon, but once i swapped to s/s i camped it till the end. Im still doing that btw. But what if you dont use hammer and go for staff instead? It starts to becoming a little broken as rev can spam blocks like no class in this game, even more so if you use warrior runes.

Yap, just noticed what mess it was.

Feel free to disagree but rev weapons wasnt made with wep swap in mind. Atm you can combine sword+sword with staff and be able to chain blocks and evades for a while. For that reason i can imagine more nerfs in future along with increased cd’s on skills (look shield 5, Glint heal). We received wep swap for one reason – being able to swap between melee and ranged wep but in the end everyone runs double melee – so whats the point? It also created new issues – lack of second condi set (ranged), only one underwater weapon.

And before someone jump in to say weapon swap improved revenant as a whole i have to say no, it didnt. Weapon swap was released with herald – that improved rev and made him viable, not weapon swap.

Um.. no? To heal you have to stay in melee and attack. So unless you find someone dumb enough its effectiveness is not even close to HS. For me it doesnt even make a difference in pvp as its unnoticeable and i pick up +20% damage trait instead.

Also you might take a look at hp/s of rev with Shiro/Jalis and compare it to HS.

1.Blinding Truths. Striking a blinded foe slows them. 2 sec slow, 5 icd

Yep, it sounds strong on paper and i would like to see how it play out. But generally i think its a way to go, maybe with raised cd if it end up stronger than i except. Remember its single target btw. Blind on heal trait was actually supposed to be op but i found it mediocre.

2. Tranquil Benediction. Wielding a staff also provides 150 healing power. Blocking an attack heals you and nearly allies. 500 (0.6), 1 icd

Might have overdone it a bit. What numbers would you put in instead? Do you think its right the direction to go?

3. Elluding Nullification. Cast Purifying Essence on a dodge. 10cd

Given how much conditions flying around now thx to reaper i would hold on about that one before judging tbh. If condi spam get reduced (hopefully it will) then we could change it to a lesser version to 2+ lower healing per condi. See https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blood_Bond

4. Momentary Pacification – Enemy skills that you interrupt have their cooldown increased by 10 seconds. Immobilize enemies that you interrupt (4sec), 10cd. (who made that hm…)

Thats the reason why i actually gave it 4sec, but 2 would be fine too i guess in the end. Will edit later.

5. Purifying Essence. – Added stunbreak. Removed cd

Bunker spec probably. Dps spec? Hmm.. i cant imagine dps build using ventari at all, they will melt trying to cure condi.

6. Protective Solace. – Projectiles are turned into healing bolts for allies. Removed cd

I wouldnt mind making it even -10 with 10 energy on activation tbh, its strong. Not due to healing, but due to the fact its a projectile destruction on demand. Then again there arent many meta classes who uses projectiles nowdays, mostly dh and lb ranger/druid. Yah i think raising it to -8 and 10 energy on activation should do it.

7. Energy Expulsion. – Blast finisher changed to waterfield for 2 seconds. No longer destroys tablet. Shards removed. 5cd

Not sure. Water fields are strong in right hands (see engi). I think it would be better stick to 2 and see how it play out.

8. It still lacks healing for PvE/Raiding.

Are you sure? I would hold on and see how it will play out before buffing it more.

9. A slight extra nerf to condi cleanse might be needed by either removing nullification or giving purifying essence a cooldown.

If you cure condi, you dont heal much. If you heal, you dont cure condi. And the radius is small so its not all that easy to pull off outside of yourself.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

I wish you luck but any suggestions are probably useless.

I say this as someone who has helped keep suggestion threads alive in the guardian forums for years after they started, threads that had hundreds if not thousands of replies saying they were good ideas, the same threads that never saw so much as an admission or hint on Anet’s end that the guardian skills/traits/weapon skills were not performing at a place that was good.

If they are overtuned and end on op side then yes i doubt. If we tweak them to okay level (thats why i posted them here in the first place) then might listen. Always worth to try right? Im doing it for fun tbh. Too bad not many people post here tho, rev section is quite.. dead. So it will be a little harder to get correct changes but in the end.. if people like these ideas then it down to tweaking the numbers.

I will leave this thread for 2 days, invo/herald are a bit tricky. Generally i want invo to focus on legend swap, upkeeps and some utility, just cant make up my mind if they should be connected to spending energy. Enhanted Bulwark (herald) was changed to improve protection by 7% btw.

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

Added Ventari to post with Jalis. Took one GM suggestion from Vere and improved a bit. (had something similiar in mind and that was immobilize on elite skill use)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-weak-traits-skills-rework/first#post5974322

Well this is a different approach to Ventari =p works as well. But the natural abundance + Eluding nullification gives salvation way too much condi cleanse. The eluding nulification is somewhat risky by itself really.

You think? If you get condi bombed nothing will save you tbh. Maybe i went overboard with abudance, let me delete it. How rest?

Added Ventari to post with Jalis. Took one GM suggestion from Vere and improved a bit. (had something similiar in mind and that was immobilize on elite skill use)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-weak-traits-skills-rework/first#post5974322

Meanwhile i want fixed armors for charr instead of being neglected the whole time. Anyone even bothered to preview heavy ley line armor on charr? How it look on human and how it look on charr? Right..

Malchior.5732:

Then make Unrelenting Assault the opposite: it gets stronger the more targets appear, but is weaker in a 1v1.

I was thinking about damage scaling abilities based on numbers of targets up to 100% (20% per one) if there are 5 targets in area but not sure if thats even possible in gw2.

I approve this thread. Balance was never in such good amazing state.

You dont think im gonna reply to all that, right? It will take me a whole day xD

Adressing some of the points (not much time)

At one point you want to keep Shiro heal unique, at another one you disagree making Jalis heal unique – atm its mending with retal. While obviously we have 2 heals, we dont have much else going for except siphoning heal that require us to play aggressive (its a good thing tho). I doubt giving block to an utility no cd skill is a good idea, but these things makes more sense on healing skill as they have fairy high 30cd.

Reason why i want to give Jalis a block on healing is simply – temporary protection from group focus and preventing spikes. Its a closer concept to Glint except they does it a bit different. Jalis block incoming attacks healing always for a fixed amount while Glint absord damage. Both should be equally good in tanky theme.

Eye for eye may be a bit buff with the icon tho.. thats right.

Inspiring Reinforcement needs to be changed to something like ds3 on reaper tho. Road is not fuctional and never be in this combat system. There is a reason why Hallowen Ground is not used at all despite fitting point in conquest just fine.

Atm if you want to stand in road you cant leave it.. if youre melee tough luck, if someone decide to bombard that place with aoe (not hard to do nowdays) tough luck. With enhanted bulwark you can get long lasting stab from road but you dont see anyone bothering with Jalis for a good reason – its not practical.

I like vengeful hammers too (works great vs blind spammers) but Rite makes more sense as upkeep skill just like EtD. It also place rev at 2 upkeep elites and 2 on use in core. I think i would value reflect/deflect more as well over hammers but let other speaks on this subject.

Fact is that Rite is atm weak, despite listened -75% which sounds crazy it has it counter – vul to reduce it effectiveness to 50%. But after all if a tanky legend with tanky traitline doesnt make me feel tanky..what will?

As for precision strike+ua.. While its cool and all to bounce between targets etc, yes it lose damage. All other abilities has the same damage vs single target as much as vs multiple targets. If you do mighty blow, you wont get reduced damage per target, instead you will hit all targets for the same amount of damage. Thats not the case with rev at all.

There wasnt a buff, just a nerf. Precision strike could always be used in teamfight for what it does. Now while it stronger 1v1 vs non pet classes it also comes at the cost of nerf to auto which overall hurts rev even more. UA was already useless for other reasons than evade, now we end up with 2 useless skills on sword in teamfight.
And its not like we are all that godlike at 1v1 either – druid, thief, scrapper have a fair high chance vs us and necro will demolish the floor with rev no matter what he runs.

Atm rev is not even considered to be something scary in 1v1 it by browsing forum. Condi rev outshinies power as it stands now.

Doggie.3184:

Greataxes are far cooler than Greatswords. Then I can run around beheading everyone like an Executioner.

2handed Greatshields also pwn Greatswords but games generally lack enough imagination for that.

Out of space in main post so posting in this one. These changes are a bit more crazy so take a closer look please. Jalis;

Ventari.

Hooglese.4860:

Burtnik.5218:

Hooglese.4860:

Has the Charged Mists bug mention here been addressed here?

You dreaming, right?

You mentioned the legend only not the icd however

I thought it didnt had any but it seems it does have some.. Well terrible trait noone will use either way. Added

misterdevious.6482:

Pulsating Pestilence only pulses once instead of the 3 seconds listed.

If it is only going to pulse Torment, it needs to pulse it more than once. 1 pulse of torment on a 15s cooldown is… worthless. 3 pulses would bring the damage up close to Diabolic Inferno (if targets are moving) without requiring you to time your elites.

Its supposed to have a chance to copy all conditions you have to nearly foes in 240 radius but it doesnt work and apply only 1 stack of torment instead for 3sec. Dont even slot it.

So what about these changes

Pain abs; provides 2sec of resistance on use, no longer gains resistance for transfered conditions. Apply aoe 2 stacks of burn for 4sec, 30 energy

Dismantle Fortifications;

Option 1; Gain 3sec quickness on succesful cc.
Option 2; reveal stealted foe for 5s when you hit them, 20cd
Option 3; Cc skills strip protection and apply 25vul (3sec) if they stun a target

Frigid Precision;

Option 1; remove icd from blind
Option 2; make it apply 3stacks of vul when you chill foe.

Empowering Misery – reduce resistance to 2 seconds

Enchanted Daggers – Change to 5,5k heal on cast, daggers siphon 160hp x6, unblockable (deflect/reflect issues), 20sec duration

draxynnic.3719:

2long post 4me

1. Ferocious+Vicious

Just cause they lack movement speed doesnt mean we should too. And guardian imo should get it too somewhere… Mesmer while lacking movement speed has some ways to get swiftness. Getting faster around with IO is not really a great idea in pve due to PT, in wvw/spvp due to being catched off guard with no energy. Atm we are not in better position when it comes to traits either way. A sword trait, another sword trait and pvp trait. Movement speed is at least usable by all builds and doesnt force you to get Glint for swiftness.

2. Malicious Reprisal

Thats actually a great suggestion but im not sure if they can program it this way?

3. Dismantle Fortifications:

And Forced Engagement. The way it is now (and hard to say if intended) it only strip 2 stacks of stab, if you target had 1 stack he wont get cc still. Hard to come with something unique and connected to cc really but most likely i will try to come up with something new

4. Shiro removed hexes

And how you make it in? Shiro already has decent anti cc, mobility (on paper, thx bug), dps and cc. We could make it transfer condition with 1 sec interval and it would end broken. We could make it 3sec interval and you wont get much out of it. Better idea is to make it pulse resistance but that step on Mallyx territory. Generally speaking Shiro will end up even more mandatory than it is now if he get condi cleanse as its basically all in one package except tools to reduce direct damage.

5. Assassin’s Annihilation:

You should always do flanks in pvp at least tho. Its quite hard to flank with hammer on the other hand so most of the time hammer has no benefit from this trait unless you fight unaware foe.

6. Enchanted Daggers:

Imagine this situation. You have 8k hp left, X heal is on cd so youre left with Shiro, another rev lands 9 confusion stacks on you (passive proc, 2 banish). You cast heal, 1,6k and now geting eated by passive confusion tick. If you try to proc daggers, no matter what you use youll die, if you wont do anything you die too. Is is that how healing skills are supposed to work now? I dont mind losing damage from this skill at all, but i want reliable heal that actually helps me survive you know..doing it job rather than work as dps boost.

I can retreat to gate in wvw with a bit of conditions (used Glint heal to survive) and that leaves me with Shiro but i cant proc daggers so most likely conditions will put me in downed state. While retreating i cant proc daggers either. If you fight some cool evade dancer thief, you wont proc too many daggers either. If damage pressure is too high you wont think how to proc daggers outside of ua, what you will try is kite and survive.
While running around in pve and taking heavy damage from mobs in HoT i have to stop and attack to actually heal, meanwhile on my dh i press healing skill and call it a day.

I could give you milion of examples why its the worst and flawed healing skill in game but everyone knows it by now, even non rev players. What people actually used to heal up was Glint/Mallyx and shield 5, Shiro heal is not something you can count on at all in current state. Shiro/Glint combo has the most restricted, situational and predicable heals atm. Glint require your target to be braindead, Shiro require you to hit. Thats a bit too much with nerfed into ground shield.

7. Phase Traversal

It is not intended to be used under cc tho. At the very least the animation shouldnt push you futher and trigger barriers to interrupt rev. That is the problem as you have no way to escape other than apply stability on dodge (and sometimes even that doesnt work vs multiple rings/shoes)*

8. Sword auto

*Lets put it in another way.. The stab animation (at least on charr) is just ugly and doesnt really fit. It feels weird to open up with something that doesnt provide a range advantage in game or anything really. I would also think that stab actually is supposed to hurt more (final thrust). In the end however i wouldnt mind to see something like that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordhau which makes more sense.

9 Precision Strike+UA

Well i guess noone care about the lore in the end, right? At least role should not outshine gameplay otherwise we should win a match by casting jade winds at the start of a match right? Precision strike and UA or in other words sword loses it damage when more than one target show up and that is problematic both pve and pvp. If i go with warrior to teamfight, i dont deal less damage, i deal more as i can tag up more people with single ability (see Arc Divider). If i go with guard i dont lose damage either from my abilities.

Basically there is no class nor weapon that lose damage on single target just bc a pet up or someone else show up. That is a flawed desing. I dont mind making them sword/sword focus on 1v1 (and it leaves space for aoe gs) but desing should support it in this case. See thief, jump in teamfight, burst someone and hop out. With rev you wont burst anyone in teamfight atm as both precision strike and ua act as aoe which goes against “singling out enemies” idea. You can work as +1 but you wont be as effective if its a pet class and thief does it better in general due to superior burst.

10. Duellist’s Preparation:

Thats right. Just like staff 3, block should trigger in the moment where i press button. Getting block interrupted by random cc is a frustrating experience and idk why they ever made it that way. Hammer 4 for engi worked in similiar way and they changed it.

11. Shackling Wave:

I think its better to give people counterplay by simply not attacking during the block windup. Its like giving chrono ability to use his block 2x in a row..

12. Grasping Shadow:

That doesnt solve pulling away ppl from teamfight. A stun helps whole team, a pull only you. Both in general has it + and – but it doesnt make sense to have a pull on a melee skill. So at the very least it should be changed to ranged skill in the end.

UA is also a dps loss if youre not in Shiro and grasping shadow may get you in place..you didnt wanted to be. Atm i use grasp shadow for jade winds set up btw, you can stun ppl before they recover from pull.

13. Opportune Extraction: I’m not sure about boosting stationary Torment as that can be confusing for counterplay to Torment in PvP. On the other hand, the usual counterplay is condi removal, so it may not be a big deal there.

Pretty much have not seen anyone that stopped moving in pvp due to torment unless it as selfroot skill/rez/downed so in the end it doesnt really matter in pvp. Its aimed more towards pve where torment just sux, so does condi rev for that one simple reason

14. Demonic Defiance

Facet of Nature tho.. there was a reason why they nerfed this trait in the first place right? Better to have 1sec resistance with no icd or 2sec with 5 icd?

15. Replenishing Despair

Tbh i dont know how this trait can play out with Mallyx change to EtD. Before it was completely useless and outshined by demonic defiance, now is also useless for the same reason. Shaving the heal is something they can always do if it end up being stronger than intended.

16. Frigid Precision:

Originally i thought about no icd on blind but theres one thing that stopped me from it.. and its called UA in Mallyx. It could instead apply vul tho with no icd

17. Maniacal Persistance:

I believe 2% is too low for a gm trait. And its not like you can spread 13 condi on your own atm. Vul, weakness, confu, torment, burning, some chill is all we have atm.

18. Empowering Misery:

It has 30cd so imho nothing gamebreaking. I dont mind shaving it to 2sec tho. Atm before healing you have to apply resistance from another skill as resistance is delayed and apply right after healing. It feels bad when you have under poison with no resistance. Imagine necros healing 33% less from CC due to poison..

19. Pain Absorption

Atm its a button to go to protect yourself from resistance, you can also cast it before swapping legend and cover resistance on second legend. That is a bit problematic.
But i think youre spot on to leave it as 2 second resistance and get rid of extra resistance completely from transfered conditions. I tried to add burning make it more of a offensive skill tho. Getting resistance on second legend from Mallyx wont be a easy task with EtD and thats the overall goal here.

20. Embrace the Darkness:

Imho entering this “mode” has + and -. I dont think condition removal will be needed when youre covered up with resistance for it duration and due to no cd you can hop in and hop out at will too so team can coordinate cleanses. Allowing it to cure conditions from allies puts us back a bit into “halp, my ally nerfs me” thing. Thats a reason why i do not want to see whole Mallyx to be reverted back to it bwe2 state, it was better than that we have now, but not ideal still.
Also you mean to lower it casttime btw?

21. “Another alternative could be to dispense with the Resistance, and make it pulse a condition transfer instead: rather than making you immune to conditions, it allows you to shake them off quickly, and discourages opponents from giving you more while it’s active.”

I would like to keep condition copy as its a original playstyle. Changing it to condition transfer would make it too necro-ish imo.

Sry for eng mistakes, that was a bit too long for my taste but ty for feedback, you brought up some interesing points.

The Ace.9105:

What anet meant about singling out enemies was that rev is weaker in teamfights than against 1 target. Then what comes to trait changes, everybody who really plays revenant knows that vicious laceration is better than ferocious strikes so replace that rather than vicious. Sword 2 is now super good skill but it has some bugs and when those bugs are fixed it’s perfect. UA is fine as it is except that it still bugs with slow and needs to be fixed. In pvp it’s better to play with double stab on dodge so idk about the fury change either to nefarious momentum and in pve you have perma fury anyways.

Then that logic should apply to thief also, hm? Or to my condi mace/axe set. Fact is sword mh is the only weapon in game that hits like wet noodle in teamfights jsut bc it loses damage in the moment where more than one target show up and its wrong on many levels. Also double stab on dodge is completely braindead and causes too many issues, thats why the trait in herald has to be reworked.. In pve you will always pick up assassin presence over fury trait btw.

Malchior.5732:

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Actually condi rev imo can dish out some serious condi damage output, the problem is lack of coverage. It wont be a problem however with EtD as even power builds uses conditions like vul, cripple, blind, immobize whenever they like it or not.

As for aoe stability..i would personally give it warriors instead as atm they dont bring anything really. Let them have some nice things too. Problem with aoe stab in rev case is that you could go for glint/jalis and provide basically the most important boons (prot, stab, fury) so basically there is no reason to pick up guard at all.

I think Ventari was already explained. Given the fact that we can swap utility skills in combat i dont think we need something else on Ventari. The point is not to replace druids completely but to bring our healing support to an acceptable level where we can end up as more defensive alternative to druid. We also have better cc for breakbars. Druid should remain as king of support tho as that is his specialization after all.

killahmayne.9518:

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Shiro had completely different healing ability tho http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meditation_of_the_Reaper

As for the “ironed out bugs” its Anet we talk about.. to this day melee hits can miss due to uneven terrain. Or the 3 years old immobilize bug..

UA part.. well.. thing is it received ~23% nerf with the last patch. Even with my +15% buff it wont recover all of it damage, even less so with removed might (what it is even doing here?)

You mentioned main issue with the invocation line btw. Its our profession line but it doesnt really bring anything else than fury. I made a “little” overhaul there to focus more on legend swapping and upkeep abilities.

Ignoring that however, you gain 5sec of fury only when you actually swap every 10sec which may not be optimal. I keep it often as stunbreak actually in Shiro/Jalis core build.
Fierce Infusion has 20cd (due to our weak heal nature more like 30) for few sec of fury and Incensed Response require you to be stunned and stunbreak for 10s (15s due to bug) fury on 10cd. Not really optimal way of gaining fury imo.

Also Shiro theme is actually all about ferocity and crits. Theres a reason why shiro armor in gw2 has rage rune after all or why we provide +150 ferocity buff.

Oh btw if anyone is curious about Cruel Repercussion (broken hammer trait);

Damage is increased for a short duration after invoking a legend. 3sec duration, 10%
or
Your next hit after a legend swap does 25% more damage

Cant decide but both really aims to eliminate one shots from hammer and bring in more healthy playstyle.

Daggers doesnt siphol heal. That would be definitely too much. I just left them for damage, thats about it. Atm this skill heal for 6,5k if all daggers are procced but keep in mind that we are affected by poison with basically no way to remove it.

Demonic defiance could definitely add self conditions but tbh.. i was never feeling that they are any good outside of the blind ofc. With the amount of reapers in pvp tho i wouldnt worry too much about conditions or reliance on allies in general..

As for the Jalis himself.. im thinking what to do with vengeful hmmers. I dont think they want to have 2 upkeep skills on one legend and i know i want rite to become an upkeep skill with increased “a bit” reduction to power damage (it also balance the elite skills itself – 2 upkeep, 2 on use). Overall i changed him to selfish legend for balance purposes. I feel that Glint and Ventari are enough of a support and spreading stability to allies is stepping on a guardian job.

Malchior.5732:

How about ignoring Stability on a big ICD? :^)

I actually don’t know what it could do. Maybe if a CC fails, it’ll CC them one more time. Still does what it does now, but it’ll actually work and could actually work on break bars.

I was thinking about one trait, lore driven but it would be op. And that means immunity to blind. It would fill a utility role between damage, survival.

I was thinking about it ignoring protection.. or gain extra damage per boon on enemy like war https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Empowered but in the end it didnt made any sense at all to me.

Tried looking at increasing damage to stunned foes but we already have damage trait.. so meh once more. I was thinking about https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Blow too but its condi oriented..

Then i looked at possibility of fast hands.. its cool and all but i am personally up for deleting weapon swap. For me weapon swap feels like QoL change as i tend to camp one set (thx to hammer).

Generally speaking what i have been considering is current mini version of power block (in list), immobilize below 50% hp, gaining quickness when cc a foe.

Now that i think about it..it could also reveal foes.

That goes against malicious trait and tbh.. i wouldnt want to face something like that when playing rev myself or another class. I want to be rewarded for blocking attack, not punished. Its something that would frustrate and upset players. Too much passive is not good for gameplay after all.

Precision strike may end up a bit too strong, i agree. Thats something which honestly have to be tested, we have to keep in mind they nerfed auto just to move damage to 2 but 2.25 would be good too i believe. Hard to say honestly. I dont feel like i hit all that much for example right now but it also not something reliable so obviously im not landing all 3 hits everytime.

Dismantle fortification is atm a cc trait and tbh its hard to come up with anything else. One trait increases damage already and the other one heals. That doesnt leave much room for something else really. Unblockable is also covered in adept.. that could leave only one possibility – something to pain strike where you stun/immobilize foe when striking below 50%. If you have something else in mind feel free to share.

Added Mallyx, done for today.

Actual changes
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eWstXzT4_9KG4Q4HifB-ZrCA-8tgBel0RaYnQlfdgtk/edit?usp=sharing

Randulf.7614:

but I think a full map/(s) given to UW would be unwelcome given the mixed reception the verticality of a jungle got.

Thats due to the fact we poorly designed maps.. but then again.. Its jungle and we should feel lost there. Personally i have no issues navigating in hot maps except tangled depths.

Underwater map would be way easier to nativage if done properly, the only one problem i see is people refusing adapt to 3d combat.

In actual, real pvp build you wont pick up all of these traits on rev either. One line goes to retribution, one most likely to deva leaving with a choice of invo (good joke) or herald.

Balancing hammer for wvw is absurd as it hurts spvp and pve in which case yes..in both of them hammer do need a buff due to CoR nerf. And the most funny thing about the CoR crying is actually the fact these same people run full glass and literally anything will explode them. CoR just have easier time doing that as you dont rally need a target to cast it nor put reflect and call it a day nor you dont need them to cc them as the damage is insta. Also i actually want CoR to become projectile based without range penalty.

If hammer is fine as you say, why we dont see hammer revs in spvp btw? Or in instanced contest? Trying to balance a weapon around wvw.. a dead mode which had pirate meta for a long time already.. is laughable at best really. Going by that logic we should remove all aoe and cc skills from wvw. We might as well just fight with wooden sticks.

td;dr hammer was nerfed too hard and need compensation for how terrible this weapon is in current state.

A underwater map.. a map without any land above water, full of depth caves and tunnels to explore where you cant see a kitten except these few dangerous monsters that illuminate area. Will it ever happen? ;o

Cause guild halls are useless feature. Waste of resources. Same goes to housing really. Its not Sim game, in mmo you want to keep moving and progress.

Ayrilana.1396:

Correct! Not only approx every 12 weeks will we do a big seasonal update. You’ll also see updates between seasonal updates.

Content like raids, pvp leagues, living world, festivals, and WvW tournaments are all things you’d find happening between seasonal updates as the year progresses. (this “winter” season we’ve got a festival, raid, and pvp league kick off planned before spring.)

Things like new fractals, new legendaries, WvW updates, new PvP maps, quality of life updates, etc. are all the type of stuff that’d come with our seasonal updates.

Hope that helps a bit!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/440m4i/what_does_quartaly_updates_mean_for_us/czmk22d

So there’s a chance we’ll get the next batch by Spring.

Edit: Also, do you think the attached image could be a new legendary sword?

If that is new legendary sword then im glad i didnt even bother with raids to prepare for legendary junk armor.

Like holy kitten, its so ugly, too big (looks more like gs) and completely against theme of my rev which is black-red-purple. So i guess i was waiting for nothing in the end.. That hilt is just an overkill. Hail shadow sword i guess.

Oh yeah.. the reason why i still hold on myself from buying tormented skins..

Its quite funny how they nerf all heavy into oblivion and letting medium/light dominate.
Remember bunker guard? Replaced by much stronger d/d ele. A cloth that can tank better than heavy specialized in bunkering.. like please. The hate against heavy is real in this game.

As for wvw indeed its quite hard to find a rev, on my serv matchup at least. I see bombs from necros all day long but hey.. lets nerf hammer

mexay.3902:

However, that doesn’t mean the base legends and traits should be as bad as they are now, particularly Jalis/Retrib & Ventari/Salv. Mallyx and Shiro are good enough to stand on their own as legends, but each Specialisation line needs some work in particular areas.

Mallyx is far from being good enough. Carried by 3 traitlines is not something i would consider stands good on it own. I am playing core rev atm and the resistance upime i am getting..is just poor. Trait on herald+f2 is what caused rev being able maintain perma resistance. In fact i still can do it in herald without any issues.

Shiro is the only one who can stand up on it own – well almost. Theres one problem with him and thats is “healing skill”. But in general he works with everything except Ventari obviously.