Guild Wars 2

MrHarses.6801:

Way too much Herald/Glint nerf for me…

I think you’re trying to make core revenant viable. If so you just need to up other spec, no need to nerf elite which is the only one that makes rev viable atm thanks to support abilities.

Btw this is “elite spec” not “just another spec”. Doesn’t it seem normal to be slightly better than others ?
Would make more sense if we have more elite to choose.

Rifle on rev… please no -_-
Rev is a fighter !
Greatsword condi with dual melee/ranged AA like underwater spear… yes please

Liked most suggestions on other legends.

Herald is unbalanced. It provides way too much to the point where you cant skip it. Glint is also too forgiving energy wise as well. Goal is to up underpowered stuff a bit and nerf op so both end up balanced. You shouldnt be stronger by picking up herald and vice versa. I think i have managed that by these changes. Now its pretty much down to tweaks

That said herald will remain mandatory in raids contest just for 50% boon duration alone. I think its a bit too much but in the end without this skill we may be out of raids.

gannondorf.7628:

Numerous changes are interesting and good. Even if i don’t love rifle in a spiritual theme is seems to be quite interesting (even if it have two of the same skills that spear has). But i’m a bit worried about it. We all know that revenant need a big rework but we know too that anet are don’t going to do it so… we need to be really hopefull.

2 from spear, 2 from warrior (combu shot and Repeating Shot), 1 from dh (deflecting shot), 1 from engineer rifle (jump shot). Fun stuff. And it could also be changed to a lb.. in the end its just matter of skin. Condi rifle feels more original tho.

Once everything is tweaked and polished i will send it to Roy and hope for the best.. thats all we can do :O

Also any suggestions for a name to Noname1 and Noname2? Lmao.

Miles Smiles.8951:

Burtnik.5218:

Miles Smiles.8951:

Dude, shield of courage happens to be – I believe – the only stun-breaker in the game that has a cast time.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rite_of_the_Great_Dwarf

Wanna talk about cast times, brah? There are few more.

Yeah, but no one uses it actively, cause currently almost nobody runs the legendary dwarf stance; and the passive stun-break trait proc doesn’t have any cast time, right?

Burtnik.5218:

But i gotta agree, this issue gotta be fixed and if they cant do that, f3 should become insta.

If Shield of Courage went on 4 sec CD when interrupted would that mean you can use the stun-break part again in 4 sec? And maybe it could be exploited by stowing, theoretically, I’m not sure tho. I mean, I think it should either remain as it is or become insta cast; the latter would be so user friendly!

I run core rev and in power setup i have Jalis. Sure hes trash, but fun. Sort of..

As for the shield part.. Stability should be applied upon stunbreaking not after the cast is done.

Added Herald, Glint, Shield, Downstate, Condition rifle

lighter.2708:

Burtnik.5218:

While boring, its better if it stay the way it is atm imo. Its working so better to not mess with that stuff as you will have to rebalance everything around this change.

I dont understand one thing tho – why my energy automatically reset to 50 ooc instead of decaying slowly like war adrenaline?

instead of decaying slowing like war adrenaline and eventually completely gone? yea, i would like to stay with 50% i would love for war to have 50% too

Decaying slowly to 50. Right now when you leave combat its just puff 100 energy back to 50. Just like that. Before energy slowly decayed to 50 in beta.

While boring, its better if it stay the way it is atm imo. Its working so better to not mess with that stuff as you will have to rebalance everything around this change.

I dont understand one thing tho – why my energy automatically reset to 50 ooc instead of decaying slowly like war adrenaline?

MrHarses.6801:

Sounds like it would be better for you if legend swapping was keeping your current energy state…
Am I right ?

Sort of. It would be harder to manage energy but at same time more rewarding when you swap by choice to adapt to X situation rather than current burst energy to 0 before swap come off cd

Next set of legendaries will come out with next expansion. They should at least give us preview how they look, same goes for armor. And while we are at weapons.. where are revenant wep skins?

As for legendary sword its been datamined i believe
http://imgur.com/b3iOwP1

Ugly as .. but well.. legendary.

Anyone good at naming traits? Buhahaha.

Need them for;

Deal increased damage to foes with no boons – 5% (adept)
Gain damage based on the amount of facets you have active – 2% per facet (master)

I changed Glint to 3 lines – dps, survival, support.

Dps more pve oriented, survival/support for pvp/wvw

Lexander.4579:

Burtnik.5218:

Lexander.4579:

lmao these mesmer whiners should finally learn to accept they are simply not good enough to play that class and stick with rev or something

Please play rev without herald, i beg you

?? why would i play anything without elite spec lol

Cus you mentioned rev, not herald shrug

Marthkus.4615:

Weapon swap is good for the class. It gives us 20 skills to play with.

We could get 20 skills in another way like engi/ele. Most likely its too late tho

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

Well tbh what we have is not really energy management. Its more like do nothing for x seconds and spam aa or burst your energy by the time legend swap come off cd.

We have upkeep skills that drains energy over time but we dont have an option to increase energy over time. At some point i wonder if it wouldnt be better to make energy closer to ini – starting with 100%, faster regeneration but energy itself shared by both legends. Which means if you bursted all you energy, legend swap wont save ya.

Well, if you’re complaining about waiting, your suggestion encourages even more of it, but doesn’t encourage legend swapping at all :L

It works “better” on Thief because they have ways to regain it and it’s not shared between utilities.
Revenant shares it between more skills and doesn’t have abilities to regain it faster outside of swapping, which does bring in some choice: Do you wait 5 – 6 seconds to pull off that skill you want or do you swap now, but potentially have skills that are a bit less useful at the moment?

Thatts not true tbh. Sometimes you want different set of utility skills as they fits x situation more. I cannot imagine camping Shiro all day long for example. But well it doesnt matter, rev would have to be reworked from 0. I just dont feel we have much energy management, thats all. Its just drain drain drain or autoatk for +5/s or..swap legend and repeat the process in 10sec. I dont see 100 energy often outside of wvw blobs

Lexander.4579:

lmao these mesmer whiners should finally learn to accept they are simply not good enough to play that class and stick with rev or something

Please play rev without herald, i beg you

Miles Smiles.8951:

Dude, shield of courage happens to be – I believe – the only stun-breaker in the game that has a cast time.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rite_of_the_Great_Dwarf

Wanna talk about cast times, brah? There are few more. But i gotta agree, this issue gotta be fixed and if they cant do that, f3 should become insta. The trait for f2 is also a joke as most of the time it gets interrupted when used offensively.

Well tbh what we have is not really energy management. Its more like do nothing for x seconds and spam aa or burst your energy by the time legend swap come off cd.

We have upkeep skills that drains energy over time but we dont have an option to increase energy over time. At some point i wonder if it wouldnt be better to make energy closer to ini – starting with 100%, faster regeneration but energy itself shared by both legends. Which means if you bursted all you energy, legend swap wont save ya.

I mained warrior for over 4k hours but dropped it year ago for ranger/guard. I always wanted something like “death knight” and rev overall seems to fit it well – some stuff at least. Hopefully they give warrior a whole rework one day tho. Heavy armor 4ever if you know what i mean

Title is something i plan to change once i post herald and shield (dat title is terrible tbh)
Enabled comments as well – wasnt aware they are off.

As for the spreadsheet, yeah it looks nice but i believe my document looks clean enough.. i will consider that option tho, thanks!

Ithilwen.1529:

Laugh all you like. Played well it works. Sad that that’s all you can think of to contribute to the discussion.

Maybe in hotjoin in the daily rooms. Elite specs are op and needs to be toned down.

Here is the official answer regardless elite specs

https://np.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3opycg/arenanet_unveil_the_future_of_competitive_guild/cvzfp12

As you see they are not supposed to be op. but balanced on the core level. It works for war, works for mes. Its time for rest.

Ithilwen.1529:

venom share Thief

Im sry, but wat? Elite specs are op in comprasion to core classes. They wasnt supposed to be stronger so wtf? As for your thief..

gannondorf.7628:

For me precision strike must be a body skill not a range skill too. I mean Shiro is a kittening assassin, he deliver quick strikes with sword and we have a skill that throw daggers from a sword? What?! Meh….

Well ranged skill has it + and – obviously. I guess if most want it to stay as ranged attack i cant really go against it. I had “looking for a feedback” in my main post for a reason. If i didnt care about feedback then i would make sword stricle single target oriented and full melee in my changes. Theme/lore is not something i care about as gameplay is more important.

Also tbh that projectile looks cool, but it need to be fixed to actually hit at 600 range. Sword is broken in current state as it is unbalanced mess for both 1v1 and teamfight/group of mobs.

But generally i do understand why they moved damage from auto and reduced duration of ua while also increasing damage per strike. These changes made sword more a burst weapon rather than sustained dps one. Looking at the bright side you dont have to burn energy on impossible odds anymore, which is a good thing.

The bug with damage on rift, 2 and 3 i a different subject tho

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

Edited the post which you probably have not seen.
“Or simply reduce essence to 2 condi cleanse keeping 30 energy cost”

That’s ok. =p

Theres always other solution than slapping cd as you see.. cd solution is lazy imo.

However now that you raise these points, maybe Ventari should remain without stunbreak, like Mallyx?

Edited the post which you probably have not seen.
“Or simply reduce essence to 2 condi cleanse keeping 30 energy cost”

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

K, edited stuff except dismantle (unles i missed something else). I would like to see more ppl voice their opinion about that one before applying any change.

Overall the rework going..to the end. What left is herald, shield. Glint is fine so no changes needed and that leaves theorycraft to check out all the synergy, catch up too stronk stuff and see if core rev will be playable based on the changes. Thats was the main goal after all. Playable core, Glint changed to alternative boon oriented gameplay

Oh and ranged condition wep.. but that can be mostly copy-pasted from spear already.

Well I really think the condi cleanse is too strong…
Here is the reason
Assume you build as tanky as possible (in this case Jalis/Ventari Retribution/Salvation/Herald)
Answer these questions:

1.If you fight a 1v2 can this build be killed in less than 30sec by 2 competent DPSs with the right tools?

2.If you take 2 of these on a point can they hold a 2v5 for a long period of time?

I feel that the answer to the first question is most likely yes and for the second is definitely yes.
This can be obtained by using Ventari to cleanse only and Jalis for power damage reduction.

The reason for those questions is that whenever these apply ANET has consistently overnerfed these builds.

Even though you might not like it a cooldown on PE might be the best way since you wouldn’t hurt the amount a support would be able to cleanse while keeping bunkers in check.

Heres the thing however. In Ventari you have condi cleanse/healing to allies and nothing else going for it. No damage reduction, no selfheal to save you, just healing allies/removing conditions. You may be tough to be taken down in Jalis to power builds, but as soon you swap you will melt unless you manage to pull rite before swap (unlikely).

30 energy is equal to 6sec, you may cast it basically 2 times in a row after a swap but after that you end up starving for energy while condi does it thing. Maybe it would be a wise decision to not give Ventari stunbreak and increase energy on essence to 35 and change essense on dodge to the mentioned earlier “cast lesser version of essence” with reduced condi cleanse to 2?

Or simply reduce essence to 2 condi cleanse keeping 30 energy cost

But

1. Generally yes, based on the class combo. Something like thief+reaper will wipe floor with Ventari+jalis

2. You cant stack classes anymore as far i know

Malchior.5732:

As unlikely as it would be, what if Ventari somehow increased the max vitality of your team mates for a while and/or could apply a sort of overheal?

That would give it a huge niche.

Also, I’ll be going over your other suggestions in…a while, Burntik. I need to find some free time and then analyze em!

Jalis/Mallyx/Sword is the main thing you want to look at. As for your suggestion.. no idea how it could be done. I believe Ventari was supposed to be sustained healing rather than burst (druid)

K, edited stuff except dismantle (unles i missed something else). I would like to see more ppl voice their opinion about that one before applying any change.

Overall the rework going..to the end. What left is herald, shield. Glint is fine so no changes needed and that leaves theorycraft to check out all the synergy, catch up too stronk stuff and see if core rev will be playable based on the changes. Thats was the main goal after all. Playable core, Glint changed to alternative boon oriented gameplay

Oh and ranged condition wep.. but that can be mostly copy-pasted from spear already.

Varezenem.2813:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Suggestion-Ventari-Rework-ver/first#post5972964

Not really but a increase in regen effectiveness would match it (by 20% at most).
On steadfast rejuvenation 150 extra vit is the maximum amount that is still safe IMO.

I see.. yeah doesnt sound too bad. WIll update

100 vit seems reasonable as minor effect on steadfast rather than completely removing it.. or increasing the %

As for regen effectiveness.. it something that may fit Glint more, dont you think? Herald is boon oriented after all and actually.. it miss 2 traits

epouvante.7392:

Love the proposed changes a lot it´s a nice work. There are also nerf where it is necessary! I m not conviced by the invocation line, maybe you have to find more changes (like you taunt all foes when you spa, 30 sec icd, or you win a buff when you equip a legend, 250 healing ventari, 250 crit shiro etc)

I dont want invocation to be mandatory. We are already locked in kitten herald if we want to be competitive. Im overall fine with these changes except charged mists. I was thinking about a bit different changes but in the end i dont wanted to change it too much. Main cultrip of traits in invocation are “do x above y energy and do x under z energy” which doesnt make a lot of sense

Varezenem.2813:

Had finally some time to review your suggestions and

Dismantle Fortifications
Consider reducing to 2 stacks.

Enchanted daggers
Reduce base healing to 4.5k and move that to the siphon.

Steadfast Rejuvenation
Remove the Vit. Increase the percentage. A Herald/Salvation/Retribution with this would have way too much sustain on clerics.

Selfless Amplification
2% is more than enough with the Invoking harmony changes. This trait by itself would give around 50% outgoing healing in SPvP….

Natural Abundance
Needs a secondary effect (not cleansing ;p)

Energy expulsion
Might need a energy cost reduction (30) or make it heal in AoE the amount it would normally do per shard

And of course a small reduction on cleansing is probably still needed…

Also like I suggested in my topic I would really prefer summoning the tablet on skill activation over on swap…

1. If we reduce dismantle to 2 it might become useless vs some pulsing stab elites which may render this trait to be useless still. Ill think about it tho

2. 5k and were set

3. I will consider removing the vit/reducing. However i disagree with increasing the % without increasing it CD. It will give too much sustain to zerk rev

4. Finally! Yeah np

5. Like what? Got something in mind?

6. I think 35 is fine tbh.

7. Cleansing on it own have not changed all that much. The difference is in dodge which you dont have much control over in the first place and removed cd on purifying that could use increased energy cost if it happen to have too much cleanse.

8. Could you link this thread so i can see what you have in mind?

Updated a bit;

1. Precision Strike – Precision strike. Revert the change to 1 projectile per target (and 2sec chill). Buff the damage by 135% of invidual projectile. It will remain strong in 1v1 with 60% nerf to chill uptime and ~23% nerf to damage but it wont be useless in teamfights anymore. It needs projectile speed buff badly as well.

2. Unrelenting Assault – Reduce radius between bounces to 300. All enemies within 300 radius of revenant will also take damage when a hit from this ability connect.

3. Soothing Stone – Provides 1,5sec block. Retal removed.

Imho i believe that block still makes more sense. Sometimes trying to be unique doesnt make a lot of sense.

4. Inspiring Reinforcement – Changed fuctionality. It no longer creates a road and instead pulse stability (1,5sec) to rev and allies 5×. 240 radius. Stunbreak, 30 energy cost, removed cd. Recasting this skill refresh duration rather than stacking.

Still remains as supportive, but weaker to allies.

Invocation – Traitline focused on legend swapping, upkeep skills, fury. A mix of damage, sustain, support.

Adept;
1. Cruel Repercussion – Gain 10% damage for 4 second when you swap legend
2. Hardening Persistence – Gain 40 toughness for each point of upkeep
3. Fierce Infusion – Gain fury for 5 seconds when you critically hit a foe. 10cd

Master

1. Equilibrium – Removed healing. Now it always deal damage upon legend swap
2. Invigorating Flow – Heal yourself and allies near you when you activate upkeep skill.
389 (0.4). 10cd, 240 radius
3. Cleansing Channel – Invoking a legend removes condition. (moved from adept)

GM

1. Charged Mists – Changed to provide 1 stack of might (7sec) on critical hits.
2. Shrouding Mists – Endurance regeneration is increased by 50% when you have active upkeep ability

Fivedawgs.4267:

This is exactly why you don’t have a marketing degree.

1rst- HoT sales were not disappointing in away, had you watch the conference you would have known that NCSOFT was pretty please with the sales and their only contrition was the slow paced transition of f2p to b2p, which is your next point.

2nd-All elite specs core aren’t in anywyas oper than core specs. Futhermore, based on the conference again, NCsoft/Anet said they were going to speed up the process by teasing f2p players (I. E. Gliding in tyria, Gliding in spvp, and more). So obviously they won’t go about it by OPing specs because the chrono nerf and more Clearly tell a different story.

3rd- Finally on the sales, lol makes money with rp (I. E. Skins and stuff), Anet on the other hand can’t because you can convert gold to gems. Promoting the xpac is the only way (ok not the only way) for anet to make money. Implementing what you are asking would totally kill the game. And what makes you think that making HOT available to f2p would make the game more enjoyable to them?? Your subjectivity can be clearly seen as most f2p start with pve. And if anything they won’t to get rid of TP limitation.

Have you seen q4 report?

Ele could receive weapon swap only if you cut 2 attunements from them. Like legend swap in rev.

+1. Still waiting for any info. Im losing hope and slowly thinking to go for torment skins..

draxynnic.3719:

So, regarding those other changes:

Enchanted Daggers: I don’t think you’re going to get a 5500 heal without the daggers being nerfed significantly in damage as well as healing (which I know you’d accept, but others like the damage). That’s a huge buff to the skill (and since revenants choose their skills as all five skills of a stance rather than individually, EDs is balanced in the context of the rest of the Shiro skills, not on its own.)

The comparison you make with Litany of Wrath is an interesting one, since Litany only has the same initial heal as Enchanted Daggers (~1600 base) without the meditation trait. Now, Enchanted Daggers doesn’t have the option of throwing traits at it to boost the initial heal, and the daggers being so easy to prevent from landing is a problem. I don’t think 5500 initial is something we can aim for, though. Somewhere between three and four thousand, with the balance in the daggers, might fly.

(As an aside, a Meditation of the Reaper-themed heal could also be workable. Essentially it’d behave like an inverse Glint heal – you have to do it in combat, but you get more healing from not being attacked. I don’t think it’s likely, though.)

Litany of wrath was trash at 3/4sec cast time and before the smite condi attached to heal skill. Now it has ability to provide 6k hp on the cast and even more if smite strike someone (which will happen 90% of the time unless random dodge). Either way point is it has damage conversion to healing. It can provide rev sustain to stay in combat rather than be forced to kite due to joke interval ED. I wouldnt mind changing it to 4k base with 30% conversion. It also will help hammer A LOT. Atm its too hard to trigger daggers with hammers.

Not sure how meditation of the reaper could be translated to gw2. Theres however animation that seems to be fitting – ele water overload.

Precision Strike: While I know you don’t like dealing with projectiles, I actually like the feel of the skill at the moment… bugs aside, of course. Personally, I think the sword works better when you have a ranged skill there that you can use as an option on a more skirmishing playstyle, or to hit someone who’s just outside of melee range (or whom you don’t want to close into melee with just yet). This goes double for players running dual melee weapons, or if revenant does get reverted to a no-weaponswap profession like you’ve been pushing for.

I used it before pre patch. Projectile has it + and -. I just dont think they can fix the issue with precision strike targeting random stuff. It helps to hit stuff at range but it also can be deflected/reflected. Kinda poor for a main burst skill. See this change i posted in spvp;

“Precision strike. Revert the change to 1 projectile per target (and 2sec chill) and buff the damage by 135% of that invidual projectile. It will remain strong in 1v1 with 60% nerf to chill uptime and ~23% nerf to damage but it wont be useless in teamfights anymore. It need projectile speed buff badly tho.”

Unrelenting Assault: 450 radius seems high to me. 300 seems to be the limit for a melee-esque attack (Lightning Whip, Swod Wave). 150 may be closer to the mark. It will mean damage redistribution will happen more often, but you can still punish clumping (including reviving).

Can work assuming we reduce the radius of revenant ua to 300 radius. Smokescale has 300 radius for his attacks after all with 750 range for cast time.

Grasping Shadows: I prefer the pull, with the possibility of a condition-based CC like immobilise, cripple or chill to stop them from just running back too easily. I think it’s more interesting and promotes more tactical thinking than a simple stun.

Sword offers chill already, shacking wave offers immobilize. If we are supposed to keep it as pull i rather make it ranged and increase range to 900. Ohh and cause it would let me to pull enemies form wall in wvw i wouldnt complain – forced eng is cool and all but a bit inpractical.

Demonic Defiance: Interesting line of thought there. I like it! With Embrace the Darkness having inbuilt resistance, that reduces the reliance on getting Resistance from here. If technically feasible, this might actually be a good place to put in an immunity to condition removal while Embracing the Darkness: this would give players the option to choose whether they’re using Mallyx primarily to distribute conditions (take this trait) or more as a method of mitigating conditions while they have them (don’t take this trait).

It should be technically possible – you cant heal necro in DS for example.

Pain Absorption: What about making it deliver 3-5 stacks of bleeding instead, in order to give access to more conditions (since Mallyx revs can get Burning through Diabolic Inferno)?

I wouldnt mind that one except for the fact that we dont have bleeding by default. Our main conditions are torment, burn, poison on mace and confusion from Mallyx. I think burn fits better.

No particular comments regarding the rest of the Google document as it stood two and a half hours before the time of this post: everything there I think I could say that, at the very least, I wouldn’t be unhappy if it goes through. There’s some there that I worry might be a little overpowered, but not so much that I wouldn’t be unwilling to see it be tried out on the assumption it’ll be pared back if necessary.

Most important thing is the concept. Numbers are something that can always be changed. It obvious that something may and probably will result as op change. The goal is to bring up trash stuff to acceptable level. The thing i worry about Jalis is IR tho. Nothing states about Jalis being support so that one could be changed back to my original suggestion while Rite can remain as it is now with versed in stone trait greatly increasing rev sustain vs power damage. Soothing Stone is something that could use a block feature tho, but cause its not “original” i changed it to semi invul, it has 30cd after all.

MadVisions.4529:

Burtnik.5218:

Look where the projectile fly bc thief used dodge.. and surprise..it didnt landed. I moved to condi cus for me sword is trash atm.

that looks mega wierd

That is something you see everyday when you play with sword on rev. Shocking right?

draxynnic.3719:

On the topic of themes: Shiro’s theme colour is green because of the Jade Wind

Im blind or something then but i see..purple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo.

However, that’s beside the point. When I talked about theme, it had nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with behaviour. The theme behind Shiro’s skills is built around being aggressive, and Enchanted Daggers being a skill that requires being aggressive to get the full benefit is part of that.

Changing it to something like litany of wrath would fit it much better then, dont you think? You still have to be aggressive but at least.. you gain more than 1,6k. Also theres too many situations where Shiro heal is useless. Just example from wvw 20min ago – i was under a wall and defenders rains arrow on us with ac’s. Sure i can heal for 5k from Mallyx/Jalis on 30cd.. but what i am supposed to do with Shiro heal? You dont take these things into account, at all. You come in and defend it everytime as it was a good healing ability, when its trash. Feel free to make a thread on thief/mes/idk forum and ask if anyone would pick it up. Everyone knows its horrible.

I’m pretty sure ‘supporting allies’ was also mentioned in those interviews.

Not really;

Legendary Dwarf Stance
“Invoke the power of the legendary dwarf king, Jalis Ironhammer.”
I don’t know about you folks, but when I think of a dwarf, I think of a tanky, brawling play style. And that is exactly what you’ll get if you choose this legend. When you use the Legendary Dwarf Stance, it’s all about sustaining yourself while maintaining a frightening presence on the battlefield that your foes will not soon forget. Let’s check out another example of an upkeep skill with exciting new tech.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

What you gonna say about that one?

This edges close to circular reasoning. I’m not missing the point – unlike you, I’m not in the headspace of only thinking of the benefit to the rev, but also of other players. Who don’t get the benefit of of Enhanced Bulwark unless they happen to be heralds with Enhanced Bulwark. Additionally, Jalis and Retribution should obviously be able to stand on its own without Herald, particularly since a) we both agree that Enhanced Bulwark isn’t really fitting for Glint, and b) even if the ‘you need to have an elite specialisation to be worthwhile’ paradigm continues, there will be more in the future.

You made a big deal earlier about Rite “only granting a couple of hits worth more than Protection”. Protection is a big deal. Plus, you’re using as your yardstick one of the hardest skills to defend effectively against in the game. Is Aegis or a single-attack block worthless because it only blocks one arrow from RF? Is a long-term block useless because when the ranger RFs again, your block is still on recharge?

Protection was spreaded like candies. Aegis is useless vs multihit, sure, but strong vs single skills. Rapid fire is not that strong either. I think i could upload a vid where i melt to bristle f2 with rite on. For 50 energy cost skill i want more than 5sec 17% stronger protection. Imagine jade winds being reduced to one second daze while keeping it 50 energy cost. Thats how i feel about Rite.

The defensive aspect of Guild Wars 2 is built around holding on for just a few hits more. Holding on for just a few hits more gives time for the skill that will allow you to hold on for just a little bit more to come off recharge, becoming a self-perpetuating cycle. Holding on for just a few hits more may allow you to finish off your opponent rather than being finished off yourself. Holding on for just a few hits more may give help time to arrive (especially in sPvP), or at least hold a point for a little bit longer.

Pre patch bunker mes could hold for ages. If you build yourself full def yolo with traits, gear and skills you should last more than few hits. If thats not the case, you end up with a unviable build – poor defense, poor offense. So whats is the purpose of such build? Troll teammates?

Except that, however much you might not like IO, that’s still doubling up on Shiro. I know everyone loves Shiro, but I don’t think it’s a good thing to go from having to go Glint or Shiro in order to get a speed boost, to having to Glint, Shiro, or take a Shiro-themed traitline that is designed to work with Shiro in order to get a speed boost.

Devastation is dps/sustain line. You dont have to pair up Shiro with devastation, at all. You pick up Shiro for mobility as no other legend provides it. That doesnt mean you cant come up with some build like dev/cor/retri and Mallyx/Jalis. Suddenly 25% started to look more interesing right? That trait serves to enhance our mobility, nothing else. Youre not forced to pick it up.

draxynnic.3719:

Hrrrmn…

Regarding the Jalis skills specifically, I don’t think 100% damage reduction for Soothing Stone for 3 seconds is likely to fly balance-wise. 50% a la Rite is probably more likely to be considered by the balance team. I suspect that we won’t get zero cooldown on the modified Inspiring Reinforcement either, since that has the potential to maintain stability for a long time if you keep using it (if you use no other energy you recover 25 energy over the 5 seconds duration, so starting from full energy you could theoretically keep it going for well over a minute, more if you have increased boon duration in play).

Apart from the ‘this might be a little much balance-wise’ responses above, though, I’d take those changes.

For the rest, I’ll have to come back after guild missions to give a proper response, but I wanted to get that qualified approval in ASAP given my last post.

Thats the problem. It would be totally fine if made selfish but it can be game breaking when you make it aoe. I am still up for making Jalis a selfish legend. Also looking for interviews if any states Jalis to be support oriented.

Looked at few intervies.. i am probably blind again but none stated about Jalis being a support. What i seen was “brawler” or “tank”. So given that quote above.. it seems youre wrong and the little support he has atm might as well not exists.

Jalis is the toughner one imho. I feel fine with rest of the changes i made but Jalis..tough subject about a dwarf that was supposed to be..tough. The irony. Keeping his kit the way it is now will render him useless, buffing while keeping his support will result in being op. So what to do?

MadVisions.4529:

Burtnik.5218:

Booms.3952:

Good thing precision strike tracks so it still hit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AoRq8cdAlQ

This video disagrees with you. Something else?

here you go! https://youtu.be/o9bCVXyqR5g
the demostration:
#1: MAXIMUM range is disjointable with sidestepping IF the revenant is standing still
#2: mid range is NOT disjointable
#3: ?WTF? no maximum distance traweled, it seems this skill is not disjointable with teleporting.
#4: if the reve is chasing you and not standing like a kitten skill isn’t disjointable with sidestepping.

You should try it the way i did in my vid..

Also it seems that you take damage right before teleport, not after. If thats not the case then it simply a bug. Not like i care tbh, i want it to be reworked so acually the more people complain about it the higher chance to get it reworked.. or nerfed into ground.

And something Malchior mentioned which i captured on my material vid (for another thread)

https://youtu.be/qdYIhaOfkns?t=22s

Look where the projectile fly bc thief used dodge.. and surprise..it didnt landed. I moved to condi cus for me sword is trash atm.

ronpierce.2760:

Burtnik.5218:

Booms.3952:

Good thing precision strike tracks so it still hit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AoRq8cdAlQ

This video disagrees with you. Something else?

They should remake that video post changes.

Nothing changed. Projectiles still act the way they did aka miss a lot at 300+ range. Honestly this ability doesnt make sense to be ranged anymore. Should be reworked to melee.

Booms.3952:

Good thing precision strike tracks so it still hit

This video disagrees with you. Something else?

Being honest 3 knight armor pieces is all you need to be tanky. Anything else above 2650 armor is a stat waste. And rev rely more on active defenses either way.

Now you didnt specified but i guess thats open pve world.. vengeful hammers from Jalis should provide you more than enough sustain, espesially in a group of mobs when combined with life siphon traits from deva. Thats all i guess..

So here i have the idea..

Precision strike. Revert the change to 1 projectile per target (and 2sec chill) and buff the damage by 135% of that invidual projectile. It will remain strong in 1v1 with 60% nerf to chill uptime and ~23% nerf to damage but it wont be useless in teamfights anymore.
It need projectile speed buff badly tho.

UA; I dont think its really cause any issues in 1v1 anymore. At mid-high tier at least, not talking about hotjoin. Yet it completely remains useless in teamfight tickling everyone around.

So the UA could use a change to damage everyone in 450 radius (block/dodgable, dont worry) of revenant everytime he manage to land a hit from ua swing.

Say teamfight goes on, you cast ua and hit the druid. 400 meter away was his pet and necro. Both will also take damage as well unless they move out of it radius. That basically fix the issue of UA in teamfights and pve without reducing it single target damage potential, keeping Shiro theme etc. The counter is to..spread out. Like we already do vs aoes.

Arcaedus.7290:

Having a skill that is balanced around team-play, and overpowered in 1v1s is unacceptable.

I would like to point out that while on paper, rev sword 2 seems op, in practice it is definitely not due to points people mentioned above.

Thats why they need to rework it. Whenever it be focused more 1v1 or aoe idc.. but it has to be reliable and balanced in both scenarios.

Its better to run condi rev atm and avoid this mess called sword. Think ill update my rework (rev section) as i got some idea for it. But the general problem is that precision strike used to be a utility skill.. i honestly dont know why they even touched sword rev in the first place.

Also..dem hotjoin thief tears.

Malchior.5732:

make Sword a real 1v1 assassin weapon or make it semi-decent at 1v1, but become stronger against groups; fix Shield and Perma-Stab crutch while you’re at it. Preferably while maintaining PvE power (dat split balancing would be nice).

I prefer to make it 1v1 focused wep to pick off targets in teamfights but also cause it open up a future power weapon called greatsword focused more on aoe attacks.

And yeah.. they nerfed the wrong trait, perma stability still doing well on herald while core trash rev got another nerf bat. Talk about “competence”

Balance split wont happen either.

LucianDK.8615:

Yep, you folks are deluding yourselves if you think we will get a free buff without further nerfs.

Well the point of these changes was to move damage away from auto and ua and give it to precision strike. Since then rev dps dropped hard. So technically speaking its not free buff, but a fix. Damage was supposed to be moved around, not toned down to kitten 19k dps.

Homing missile? Hahahaahah. Good joke. You shouldnt get hit by it even once at 300+ range.
Also btw.. it deals 35% less damage than intended atm. Enjoy.

I agree with Ron tho. Sword needs a change. It may be strong in 1v1 vs non pet classes (and assuming it wont shoot in idk what) but its trash in teamfights. Problem with sword is it doesnt know what it want to do atm. Devs want it to single out enemies but it wont do it job in teamfight due to it aoe nature.

It should be either pure 1v1 weapon set (single target skills) or be a bit weaker in 1v1 and scale better in teamfights instead (like gaining extra damage when enemies are in radius).

Also generally ppl doesnt really complain about it as we have other monsters out (scrapper/reaper/druid) and the sword itself.. bug too much to be dangerous.
Power rev is also hardcountered by anything with condi.

Shiro Tegachii.5619:

my doesnt my revenant have conversations with their legends like they pomised.
it

But we do have them.. You never hear these rgghhhht, rawrrwwwww, ahhhh?

They should just remove this kitten..

Jana.6831:

Ithilwen.1529:

If that’s the case, what’s the point of buying HoT?

You’re right, but those saying the elites shouldn’t be stronger than the core builds have a point.

Well as far i know elite specs were supposed to offer alternative playstyle or focusing more on x aspect.. Instead they went into power creep direction to force ppl to buy HoT. How that ended we all know, cant w8 for q1 2016 report.

Celtic Lady.3729:

There seemed to be a lot of people that were disappointed that they’d sprung for the pre-purchase and I don’t think a lot of the people that pre-purchased HoT will do so again. I think a good portion of them are going to take a wait and see approach, which means numbers for a second expansion could very possibly be even more dissatisfying than HoT’s numbers.

And it doesn’t surprise me that their idea of F2Pers buying the expansion didn’t play out as well as they thought it would. When you compare core Tyria’s content for free to HoT’s tiny content for money along with the grindy system, yeah, don’t know why they’d buy it. lol

I bought expansion for revenant which is full of bugs and many unviable skills.. Everything is a sad joke about this xpac.

4 small grind maps
Pvp “balance”
Wvw map that noone want to play on – thats how awful it is.
Basically no new skins to earn in game -meanwhile since launch gemstore was flooded with many of them
Only 3 legendaries.
Rushes story with no logic whatsoever
Annoying as kitten “adventures” (srsly.. who came up with that one?)
Fail raids that are dps check
A lot of promised stuff was not released to this day (fractal legendary backpiece as example).
Tons.. tons of bugs. They are everywhere.

Yeah, based on that i definitely wont bother with any future “xpac” (read as mini dlc) if they dont fix that mess first. Maybe they finally wake up and fix this kitten. And if not..then goodluck in future.

otto.5684:

Malchior.5732:

Roy specifically mentioned, and I agree, that energy regen wasn’t going to be added because it would become a necessity for every build (ironically what Herald is now).

Legends like Jalis and Ventari aren’t weak because of a lack of energy regen. They’re weak because they either have really bad skills or the skills just don’t do enough.

And their utilities cost wayyyyyy to much energy for their effects. Heck, even shiro.

Maybe dont spam utility skills then? Shiro energy is mostly okay unless you spam riposting shadows/impossible odds which burn energy like nothing in this game. Not sure how i feel about jade winds tho.. its not something i can cast often if ever.

But i gotta agree. Waiting for energy to regen up or swap is a bit..boring.

Added google link in first post with modified changes. Changes were mostly made to Jalis to keep him as “support” and few traits

Draxy should take a look. No, road has to go, sry

Before i i post invocation and herald i want to know if the stuff i already posted looks acceptable.

I also had idea to make field of the mist a upkeep skill (it would be first upkeep on wep skill)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/454fjv/revenant_sword_skills_are_not_affected_by_weapon/czwh179

They already know. I wonder if the damage will go up once they fix it.. hm..

Hooglese.4860:

your heal also does a fair amount of damage and be very, very careful of enemies with reflect skills cause they can reflect your heal.

The irony..

My best advice is to slot Jalis and upkeep vengeful hammers (keep in mind they deactivate on uneven terrain, near walls etc) and Mallyx as secondary for another reliable heal.

Aha and like above, dont use sword 2 and 3 ability. They are bugged and deals much lower than intended damage. And generally speaking they are kitten vs group of mobs so either way your best bet is to autoatk.

You cant have everything in one build.. someting you forgot to mention? Unless its the magic 6/6/6/6/6/6 5 legend build with all weps. Fact is theres only one reason you want to take rev to raid – f2. 50% boon duration, touch it and rev is out of raid contest.

Everything else you mentioned can be done by other classes.

There is one problem. We got nerfed but also buffed as “compensation” by moving damage from auto and ua to precision strike.

Dev looked at tooltips and it looked fine for him while making these changes without realizing that we actually deal less damage than intended in the first place. Its explains that 19k lol dps.
Its not a minor issue, its huge gamebreaking one.

draxynnic.3719:

Heals

Retal is not all that good, not sure why you trying to turn it into some godlike boon. Theres only one class and to be specific a kit that can get you nuked from retal – flamethrower 1 spam.

In the end it all classes have better skills. I cant imagine thief taking soothing stone over hide in shadows if they are worried about conditions really. But fun fact in case if you didnt know, thief is the only class able to kitten on condi reaper in 1v1. Well so much for poor condi removal..

Shiro heal.. even if the value was reduced to 5,5k it would still be superior to the junk daggers we have now. Its one of the worst healing abilities in game, on par with blood reckoning, water spirit. You know its really bad when you can compare it to these 2.

And in general theme as you keep bringing it up.. being honest i dont see it really. Starting from the color – Shiro has green theme.. Aka jade theme. Where is the real Shiro theme? His clothes was red-orange, his jade wind was purple. So what green doing here?

Reading Shiro stuff.. daggers looks to fit, except from what i understand shirokens was actually.. you know… npcs. Which means our healing skill should summon npcs to leech heal off opponents like blood fiend instead of summoning some cucumbers.

0 connection to his original healing ability which i already mentioned earlier in this thread
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meditation_of_the_Reaper

In the end i dont see how ED actually fits Shiro theme. What a slap in the face to non-existent lore (GW2 lore is terrible at least, HoT is a clean example here).

Wrong theme color, wrong healing ability. Thats how i see it.

draxynnic.3719:

Regarding the other Jalis stuff

And stability on demand that doesnt limit you to small area is even better. And yes i do look from berserker perspective cus in the end as core berserker rev youre left handicapped. Useless Ventari, useless condi Mallyx and that leaves you with only one option which is Jalis. Which happens to be also useless trash due to situation terrible abilities and in general not working as advertised.. you know.. being “tanky”. May i remind you description of Jalis from interviews?

*"When a revenant calls on the power of Jalis, they’ll be transforming into what Cronacher calls a “dwarf brawler kind of playstyle.” They’ll be a tank in the massively multiplayer sense of being able to take a lot of damage, but they’ll also be incredibly aggressive." *

Taking 2 more hits with rite than with protection on yourself is hardly “being able to take a lot of damage” We could ofc always release a trait which makes Jalis immune to crits ofc.

You also keep missing the point that i actually can get 5second stab off Jalis road due to enh bulwark. But why i should even bother to equip Jalis at this point when im training into herald?

Reason why IR and Rite have to become a selfish reason are balance purposes. You dont want to get a legend which is close to useless for rev in name of junk support, and assuming we apply my changes but make them aoe you end up with some op kitten right there. Perma pulsing stab for the whole team or -75% reduction. Keeping Jalis as it is now will put him forever into trash unused legend. But i guess its better to keep it as trash for anything else than spvp bunker conquest point (like you would even use Jalis to bunker over Ventari/Glint) rather than make it usable in all game modes, got it.

Also in pvp Jalis rev would remain number 1 to target, even with added short block/invul added to rite. Why? You swap to Jalis, cast rite.. cool and all.. 50% reduction which i already proved to be trash. Now you have no energy to defend yourself and gratz.. youre easier to group focus than a reaper with shroud which also gains 50% reduction AND pulsing stability. Job well done, see you at spawn to repeat the circle.

In s1 i have not seen a single succesful Jalis rev and i also counted about 4 of them max. All of them despite casting rite melded under group focus, i was personally calling the target on them. And you know.. even a thief can survive group focus better than Jalis rev due to evades and stealth.

And now a more detailed list;

And your suggestion about immunity to direct damage? Immunity to direct damage to multiple team members for five seconds would clearly be OP. Plus, we know that the stone dwarves are not invulnerable, just considerably tougher than they were.

Thats why rite cant be aoe. We either keep it as useless aoe junk or as strong self skill.
Also in case if you didnt know, originally rite worked like endure pain reducing all direct damage to 0. Watch the stream from january.

At this point, I can tell you’re getting ready to make the “Glint is better support!” argument. However, in response, I can say the following:

1) Glint is well-known for doing diddly-squat against conditions. You can blow your heal to turn a damaging condition into healing for a bit. That’s about it. Jalis doesn’t offer Resistance, but Jalis can offer some limited condition clear and can reduce the damage from damaging conditions… and that condition mitigation can’t be removed in one boonstrip.
2) Glint offers no stability to yourself or your party. I know you don’t like offering stability from a field, but support fields are part of the game, and you are not the only person who plays revenant. Just because you like it does not mean that nobody does.
3) Even for a revenant, it can be useful to double up. Glint is supporty, Jalis is supporty. Being able to legendswap and still be able to keep performing the same role is useful. Redundancy is sometimes a good thing.
4) Herald won’t be the only elite specialisation forever (unless ArenaNet does another backflip…) – at some stage, in the future, there’ll be another elite legend that people might want to take while still having a supporty legend available.

1. Jalis explodes to conditions too, rite wont save you at all. The difference is between Jalis which explodes a bit slower or Glint that can get your hp back to full from condi bomb. In the end both sux vs conditions so it dosnt matter in the end. Also theres Ventari which cures conditions and is 100% support oriented.

2. We have better choices in game if party needs a support in form of stability while also remaining mobile. No reason to take Jalis.

3. I wouldnt really consider Jalis to be all that supporty. Glint can provide offensive as well defensive support. Jalis can offer some joke stab and short 50% reduction..thats about it really

4. Ventari. Also the point of specializations is to swap between them. You dont need support? You swap from druid to core ranger. You need more damage on warrior? You swap to berserker. The list goes on. Thats how its supposed to work.

In the end why Glint, Mallyx and Shiro have seen use unlike Ventari, Jalis? Bc their utility skills are flexible.

I can take Shiro for dps, mobility or cc.

I can take Mallyx for resistance, boonstrip (the only skill being a bit off in Mallyx is UA) or dps boost. But generally hes usable

I can take Glint for offense as well defense while also supporting allies. ALl while being mobile

I cannot take Jalis as his support is static which renders him absolutely useless and doesnt really bring a lot to the table

I cannot take Ventari for the same reason. Before the tablet get to someone they will be long time ago from from this place. If you dont move = youre dead. That ofc not counting undertuned healing from this legend.

So how come 3 legends see play while the other 2 are trash? They are mobile and doesnt force anyone to stop in a small square for an effect. Hopefully that will give you an idea why Jalis is hopeless in current state and keeping his kit as it is now will keep him in hopeless state for good unless.. they nerf everything else into ground to the point where Jalis will start looking good (see shield and sword oh)

draxynnic.3719:

Move speed trait in salvation..

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenant

Devastation — focuses on improving damage, mobility, and the Legendary Assassin Stance.
Salvation — focuses on improving healing, support, and the Legendary Centaur Stance.

Maybe it just me, but devastation seems to be fitting for 25% move speed trait like no other line. Even more so given the fact we have a space for it in adept cause atm we have 2 different sword traits which does the same thing in a different way. Funny enough i cant find any trait to improve my mobility.