Guild Wars 2

AimForThatFace.7814:

Greenfox.8023:

Just a couple of quick and brief comments…

First, a bit of history… When WvW turned from daily into a weeklong fight, Kaineng started out at T8. Kaineng and their then-nemesis Devona’s Rest played against each other, working up to T5-quality fights for several weeks. We specifically targeted each other, with DR’s greater population often punishing K. Since neither server got enough points to move out of T8 (glicko-2 has some anomalies in last place), we both held each other in T8 for weeks. Once one of us moved up and we were only facing “real” T8/T7 servers, we both quickly shot up.

About that time, RE and WM moved in, along with a couple of other WvW guilds. They can (and have) spoken many times of their reasons for moving, but I like to think our WvW community was a big part of it. Between WM’s highly publicized move and our unreal scores on mos.millenium, we started attracting a lot of attention. We started getting a kittenton of transfers, both from opponents we faced and from other higher-tier servers. It got much worse on transfers this past week since paid transfers were announced. Since the T1/T2 servers are apparently full, we seem to be one of a few beneficiaries of being in the right place at the right time.

Kaineng’s WvW does not equal War Machine. Now don’t get me wrong – I absolutely love them. I’ve run with WM on reset night, and they’re very impressive and VERY tightly controlled in every aspect (Jang, I will never put down siege when running with your group again ). Many of the commanders on K have learned a lot from them about siege placement, defense and attack, choosing targets, and simply running from one place to another, and we continue to learn every week. WM is a fixture of Kaineng’s strong WvW community and will be sticking around for a long time. But they’re just one strong guild of many – now too many to name – and cannot be everywhere at once. We have good guilds and good commanders on every map. We run the gamut from large commanded groups to surgical strike squads, both attacking and harassing on EB and every borderland. And at every tier, we learn more as we face stronger and stronger enemies.

Overall, Kaineng has a strong WvW core which has been here for a long time, and we have a welcoming WvW community. Map chat is generally professional and task-oriented (and I ask any who come NOT change that). Many of us have a lot to learn, but we are focused and willing to learn.

But there’s some downsides to WvW on Kaineng these days, the first being the incredible queue times. I complained last week when the queue times hit 30 minutes on reset night. This week, it was more like an hour. And when any camp flips and there’s color on any map this weekend, there’s instantly a queue for that borderland. Also, the average quality may have gone down this week – I was noticing some incredibly sloppy play from our side on reset night. Don’t get me wrong, we have several top-tier people really making a difference, but I think we also have a lot of people bandwagoning in who still have a lot to learn.

Lastly, these past few weeks have required a lot of patience. We often have great battles on reset night, but once the maps get painted blue WvW is a rather boring place to be. I think this will get fixed when we rise up to the tier we’re supposed to be playing at, whatever that may be. Quality of play goes way down during the week as people, including me, level alts and we are forced to turn from strategic attacks to a mad rush to the action before the action goes away. Play quality in these situations is sometimes so bad that our bloodied and beaten opponents openly and not-so-kindly ask on the forums how we even mange to tie our own shoes.

Last week I was at least able to level up an alt by running from camp to camp, but this week, the camps are flipping before I can even get there… so back to sPvP and PvE for now.

TL:DR: Kaineng has a broad, strong core. But playing on Kaineng will require a lot of patience. If you want a long-term WvW home, Kaineng might work for you. If you are looking for great battles right now, I’m afraid you’ll want to look elsewhere.

Thanks for the much texted reply. So if I understand correctly Kaineng is good at WvW, it a WvW server but problem is that there no competition until we move up to the tier that is equal to us, is this correct?

Also what the server like for PvE, dungeon ect are they populated.

Kaineng would be in T2/T3 next week. So things will get much tougher very soon.

Tandy.4781:

Fighting them the last couple days I have noticed one thing. When in huge numbers they are steamrolling everything, but get them in small numbers and you can do whatever you want with them.

I had no problems taking out 3/4 all by my self on my mesmer, and when they finally killed me with 9 people…..they all danced and sat on my head and stuff like they had done something wonderful, (if it takes 9 of you to kill 1, you didn’t do anything great) which is just tacky. They have to be the most “emotive” players I have seen since launch.

Now of course this is just a random sampling, and not saying the WHOLE server is this way, but so far thats all I have seen. I am sure most of the skilled, good players are maybe sitting this week out, simply out of respect for the steamrolling their zergs are doing.

To OP, watch out for sour grapes. ^^

Those CD BL guys defending their garrison and Crag tonight, I salute you. Some of the best wvw ever.

If you love wvw you would love Kaineng. They got a good mix of veterans and young players. They also got very good coverage in all times, so you don’t have to overwork yourself for the win.

Kagato.4061:

I wonder how much of us losing as bad as we are right now is due to the large list of guild transferring off last week, or whether it’s because we are up against Kaineng. My friends and I love WvW, and if this is how Crystal Desert is going to be performing from now on, then we might get the hell out of here too before paid transfers come up.

Here is my take. CD and YB at NA prime time is actually very formidable. Yesterday we at Kaineng had a very hard time gaining ground. We only got a slight edge over you guys. I think the score was like 350 to 250 or something.

And then midnight comes.

You guys in CD and YB do not have enough coverage at night. In other words your night crew is very small. So while you went to sleep, both of your towers and keeps got overrun.

So morning hits. Players from CD and YB logs in. They saw that we in Kaineng has taken over everything. Many got discouraged and they left. As a result your zerg got even smaller.

So its a combination of lack of coverage and players getting discouraged that is hurting you guys this week.

As for whatever your guild should leave or not, you guys have to ask yourselves what’s your goal. If you goal is to have fun, and you are perfectly happy in any tier, then you should stay. However if your goal is to win, play with the best and fight against the best, then you should move to a different server.

Good luck! ^^

Strong and fun and interesting? Sounds like a mesmer.

I don’t understand why people hate zergs. If you really want small team why not play spvp instead?

I would recommend SBI. They are a small wvw server now, but they have people that had been to T1 and knows what they are doing. It would be a great place to learn the basics.

Drasleona.5049:

to the hurting servers waiting for a competitive match. i have an accurate target to send your hate to. IN BIG LETTERS so u dont miss it THEY ARE THE GUILDS WHO LEFT YOU AND JOINED KAINENG along with other lower tier servers. those people deserted you and are now ruining your gametime in wvw, please send the hate to them! i know a few guilds that deserted isle of janthir to go kaineng, find them and hunt them down! kill them, harrass them and get your revenge

Let’s be fair. SoS, JQ, SoR, FA, Magumma all got tons of guild transfers. It wasn’t just Kaineng…

But the system is going to work starting next week. According to millenium SoS, king of wvw for weeks, will drop to T2. The competition in the first 2 tiers has never been more heated.

Those at T4/T5, after this week things will settle down for you.

T4:
Stormbluff Isle
Yak’s Bend
Crystal Desert

T5:
Ehmry Bay
Devona’s Rest
Isle of Janthir

Its a bug of GW2 with TS and Vent.

Staff is best for group fights due to AoE.

Scepter+Warhorn best for single fights due to cripples.

Dagger main hand is useless in wvw. Melee with light armor in 30 men zerg fights is bad idea.

Focus off hand is useless in wvw.

Axe in wvw, too weak damage to be of use.

Nerfs and rage quits?

During NA prime time Kaineng, YB and CD were all fairly even. We in Kaineng only have a slight edge. However in late night YB doesn’t have much people. CD got some but not enough.

Sorry that we are beating you guys by coverage.

Can necros get Corpse of Fake Dead Ally to lure enemies in? They would go to that corpse to resurrect, thinking its an ally. BAM Death Nova. BAM knock down. BAM down dead owned.

Junkpile.7439:

Players still think higher tier matches are something special.

Let’s say you would get pay the same amount for playing in the NHL and the AHL. So money is not the issue. Would you rather play in the AHL? It is easier work, but the fulfilment isn’t there, specially if you hope to win the big price Stanley Cup eventually.

If you are playing for fun, then it won’t matter. In fact, you would probably perfer the AHL since it aren’t as competitive.

Haldunius.7864:

CHIPS.6018:

airstu.2579:

gz on joining the bandwagon

We must do what’s best for our guild. Those that are hard core wvw cannot stay on sbi. They would watch sbi fall and fall, until one day they pack up and leave our guild to join another server. Kaineng might not make it all the way up there neither. But at least it gives our people new hope.

Those that only pve were alright with moving. For pve it doesn’t really matter what server they are on.

I’m not trying to troll, but wouldn’t picking a server that’s fighting competitive matches be better for your guild? You guys just picked the biggest bandwagon server in what’s expected to be the most lopsided battle in all the tiers next week…

Like I said we wanted to pick SoR. But at the time of the decision SoR was full 24/7. Same goes for Maguuma and FA. So we picked the next best thing, which was Kaineng. By the time Anet announced another server cap increase it was already too late for us. Many of our players would be on their 7 day limit by Jan 28th, so they cannot make it to SoR in time.

Lopsided battle is never our goal.

airstu.2579:

gz on joining the bandwagon

We must do what’s best for our guild. Those that are hard core wvw cannot stay on sbi. They would watch sbi fall and fall, with no hope at all of ever going back to T1, until one day they pack up and leave our guild to join another server. Kaineng might not make it all the way up there neither. But at least it gives our people new hope.

Those that only pve were alright with moving. For pve it doesn’t really matter what server they are on.

Have you notice that those guilds that left servers (SBI, IoJ, CD, etc) were often the most hardcore wvwers that spend hours and tons of cash on it? Its often the casual wvwers that are staying. For them they are wvwing for fun, not to win. That’s why we hear from them "I love it that we are falling tiers. Then wvw would be fun again. " I don’t think its fair for these casual wvwers to call the hard core bandwagon. If having fun is your goal, then stay and have fun. For those which winning is their goal, they must leave for a server that has any hope of winning. “Hope” is the key here.

Airstu ask yourself in your heart of hearts. Do you want to win? Or do you just want to have fun? What’s your goal?

Nuzt.7894:

It seems touchy, while some classes are underwhelming in WvW like the Necro, it seems they are one of the more popular classes for SPvP. So to answer your question, no we do not have perfect balance for WvW, but if they tweak things the wrong way, they break the class for a diff part of the game.

I mainly play WvW, I also realise whats good for WvW may hurt SPvP or PvE, its a delicate balance that I’m sure they are constantly trying to improve.

Necro is popular in spvp because of Signet of Undeath, condition spreading and condition removal. Think of the Random Arena in GW1, but with only necromancers having a resurrection signet.

In WvW its different.

Resurrection in wvw isn’t as game changing as in spvp. In a 30vs30 zerg fight, having one extra guy alive rarely make a huge difference. In a 5v5 fight, yes huge difference.

Condition spread by Epidemic sucks in wvw because of the 5 target AoE limit. In spvp that limit doesn’t apply. And in a 30vs30 zerg fight, those that got hit by conditions can hide behind their zerg to recover, meaning no kill. In spvp there is no zerg to hide behind, so condition (damage over time) are more lethal.

Condition removal, one form or another, is very common in wvw. So common that the group would rarely have any condition, with or without the necromancer.

silvos.3092:

I don’t think it’s actually balanced. I try to observe things and be as neutral as possible but I still see a lot of problems…

Thieves

-make skill spaming less rewarding (progressive initiative cost/damage reduction with the repeated use? also add combo bonuses to encourage and reward people building their play more than playing their build)
-Fix stealth (lag on apparition +people not appearing for a short period of time when hit as originally intended)
-Make people leave stealth when they use an attack skill instead of when it hits (if you miss you should have a penalty…not an other try for free…)

Warrior

-apply adrenaline cost when the burst skill is used and not when it hits (same reason)

Mesmer

-decrease portal uses to 10 and make it needs a walk-able way between the entry and exit (like every teleport of the game)
-apply a 10 uses limitation on veil (stealth an entire zerg with a single non elite skill is not acceptable)
-fix the trident clone attack (currently every single attack apply one stack of confusion)

Elementalist

-make that caster targeted AoE are placed when the skill is used and don’t follow the caster after being placed (it’ll break the churning earth+ flash combo)

Rangers

-rework pet’s AI and stats balance

General

-Make siege golems immune to stealth and forbid them to be tp (so no portal or waypoint tp)
-create a reparation mechanic for siege weapons
-make a uniform rule for siege projectile (with no exception like the elementalist is…same rule for everyone)

Of course this list isn’t exhaustive, only concern class balance and is only based on my personal experience…But I think it’s a good summary of what should be done to make WvW fun for every class…

I love how necromancers are totally forgotten. :P

On topic. Some classes are easier to play, higher ceiling and more noticeable. Other classes are harder to play, lower ceiling and less noticeable.

To test things for wvw, they need to pick out the top 10 players of each class in the world. So that’s a total of 80 players. They then need to randomly select 40 into each team, to form 2 teams. These two group of 40 players would fight each other and their stats recorded. Then change up the teams and repeat the experiment for 30 times.

With this, Anet would get a much clearer picture of who is OP and who is UP.

IoJ is like the New York Islanders. No one wants to play there. T_T

So an update. Our guild has decided to move to Kaineng. It took a lot of effort to get most of our members to agree to the move. Some aren’t moving, and we wished them the best of luck.

The reason we picked Kaineng was because it wasn’t full. We decided on this before the server cap increased again 2 nights ago. (Its ashame. Else we probably would have picked SoR. Now our members won’t make it though the 7 day limit before Jan 28th.) It was also lower tier, meaning we won’ have to fight JQ for a while. (We got quite a few guildmates and friends over at JQ. They aren’t moving.) Lastly many of us had played with WM on SBI, so we know how good they are.

I was with SoR since last Friday. And let me tell you every night was a blast. They got some great teamwork and tactics going. And to top it off everyone including commanders were extremely respectful. And most importantly, everyone there seems to be enjoying themselves.

Now I am joining my guildmates in Kaineng. I wish all of you at SoR the best of luck in T1. It has been an honour fighting beside you guys for the past 7 days. I hasn’t had so much fun in WvW for weeks. That 2 hour long battle we had yesterday in TC BL Bay was one of the best fight ever. ^^

I want dagger attacks to have 600 range. It doesn’t make any sense to have our main attack in melee, while our other dagger skills all got 600 range. Not to mention our weak armor, meaning we should’t even be in melee range. And with all that risk you would expect our melee attack to hit harder than a warriors. Nope.

Any so called imbalance is balanced by the fact that our dagger only hits one target.

Fsnowzombie.4352:

is there any light armor that isnt shouting LOOK AT MY BOOBS in this game o:??

i mean i have not a real problem with it im just curious xD

I cover up my necro really well. Check her pics on page 6.

I think aoe damage limit should stay at 5. But aoe support healing should be at 10.

Whoa didn’t know WM’s guild leader was banned for botting.

You guys know this makes zero sense right? Let say I am the evil leader of a famous guild that let my members bot. Well as leader, there is no way I would bot myself. Because if I was found guilty, it would ruin the reputation of the guild. It might even rip the guild apart. Instead, I would let my “no name” members do the bot-ing and gold making for me. If they are caught the damage is still controllable.

I just hope this doesn’t become common tactics. I can see in T1 where people tries to get commanders banned.

I guess I will stay with condition damage for now. But if I don’t see major improvements I might switch in the future.

Thanks all!

Well if WM needs to cheat in tier 5 they got serious problems.

Everything hangs in the balance of the battle outcomes of 3 days, the 25th to 27th.

If Kaineng can dominate DB (e.g. 400 to 200), they would get a bunch of people that are on the fence to join them.

If the game is much closer (e.g. 300 to 200), those people on the fence would join the top servers (SoS, JQ, SoR) instead. The server limits of all servers has just increased so there is room now, even for large guilds. This update didn’t help Kaineng since they weren’t full from before.

Another factor to consider is that the wvw queue wait time on those top servers is becoming pretty serious. 1h or longer waits are not uncommon. So Kaineng would get some guilds due to their relatively shorter queue wait times.

Kaineng also have the advantage of being Oceanic/Korean/Taiwanese heavy. That means any points that their NA counterpart can get would be “bonus” on top of their Oceanic/Korean “domination”. What that means is the pressure is not on the NA guilds. They can just play for fun.

I fully expect Kaineng to loss in NA prime time. But they would get those points back in Oceanic/Korean time zones. The final result would probably be T2/T3.

You can expect major queue wait times in SoS, JQ, SoR, BG and FA. TC, Maguuma, CD and DB would probably be slightly better. Kaineng would probably have the least wait time of them all, specially if you play in NA prime times. And these 10 servers would be T1-T3 in the foreseeable future.

All in all, if queue time is a big turn off for you, your best bet would be Kaineng.

Great news! Culling needs to be fixed one step at a time.

With the server cap raised again, most people will flood to those top top servers. It is harder now for Kaineng to get new guilds. However Kaineng, from my guess, does have the advantage of less wait queues. Those top top servers often have 1 hour wait queue times.

It is beneficial for both SoR and TC to keep SBI up in tier 2 for 1 more week. I am sure neither wants Maguuma up in T2 yet.

The fact that FA, even with all their transfers, cannot dominate CD or DB speaks volumes on how tight the first 3 tiers can be in the near future.

I do not use the following utilities. Some are simply weak or underpowered. Others have way too long a recharge to be of any use. Others are too specific in specific situations to be of general usage. Lastly many are bugged.

Corrosive Poison Cloud – weak
Corrupt Boon – specific
Minion skills – bug
Plague Signet – recharge
Signet of Spite – recharge
Spectral Armor – recharge
Spectral Grasp – bug
Spectral Wall – specific
Well of Darkness – recharge
Well of Power – recharge

No cheating here at all. Although this is all the more reason culling needs to be fixed quickly.

rhyein.6172:

CHIPS.6018:

Score update, before we took TC garrison. ^^

So you guys went over to SoR too eh?

My guild decided to let our members go whatever they feel confortable. So we got players all over. Some is staying on SBI. Some in JQ. Some in SoR. Some in Kaineng. A few members are trying to get everyone to go over to Kaineng because it still got space. Some players don’t want to move again. Others are in that 7 day lockdown, and Kaineng might be full by then. So we don’t know yet. It is a mess.

My request might be kind of weird. But I would love to get a combination of both my GW1 character and GW2 character into one. When I made my GW2 necro I tried to made her a close resemblance of my GW1 one. I really love that face covering armor of my GW1 char. At the same time I love the dress of my GW2 char.

Over the 300 years she has transferred over to be a Norn. Think of her as some tall evil dark queen of the minions. She loves huge armours and weapons that demonstrates her powers.

I would leave the rest to you. ^^

Score update, before we took TC garrison. ^^

Recently all the good build suggestions are power based. Weller, Life Blast spike, etc.

My necro’s gear (mostly exotic) is very focused on condition damage. But let’s get real they don’t hurt much. They are armor ignoring, but they get removed way too fast in wvw. And the armor ignoring part (for killing guardian and warriors) is very overrated. You cannot kill guardians and warriors with condition damage because these 2 classses are very effective in countering conditions.

So I want to experiment with power builds. However to do that I would need to buy some exotic power gear. This will cost a lot of money, pretty much all I got.

I was waiting for a while now for the necro buff. However from what Anet said we would be lucky not to get nerfed. >_>

This will be a big decision (in game money wise) for me. So I would like some opinion on both sides. Should I stay with my condition damage gear, or should I switch everything to power? Or maybe half-half?

Front line score report.

I hate those oooOOOoooo too.

Fallout.1798:

Why is it that whenever we show up on a map and take a single tower, the full population allowed at once on that map for Kain show up to crush us? Seriously, you aren’t even giving us a chance to get a foothold on a map. You are already guaranteed to move up to the next wvw tier. http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA
Really we try to get some stuff done and Kain’s only response is to mega zerg us, nothing else.

Use the side entrances. Gather together before going out. etc.

Only a necromancer has 2 elites that totally change the game play of the whole profession.

I would guess FA. But we will see.

Here is my Chipsy, the dark queen.

Only a necromancer can rally enemies with jagged horrors.

Xsorus.2507:

CHIPS.6018:

Xsorus.2507:

CHIPS.6018:

Xsorus.2507:

covenn.7165:

Xsorus.2507:

Indo.8629:

Xsorus.2507:

I think most people are annoyed about the players that went from SBI to SoR in the same matchup.

That was in very bad taste for those players to do that.

Frankly I’m hoping SoR gets crushed very bad in T1 to the point those players that left SBI for SoR are forced to spend big money to get off SoR.

That’s some heavy malice, it’s just a game. If you have that much hate for someone or something, you should take a step back and re-think things.

Oh you’re right, I should wish all the people who abandoned SBI for SoR during the very match up they’re fighting SoR well wishes on their future endeavors…lol

No, but you are bagging an entire server, many of who have been on SOR for a long time and many of who that have been nothing but respectful of your situation.

I’m specifically bagging on the players who transferred to your server, You unfortunately have to deal with that now, Which includes hopefully you getting crushed in T1. Sorry you got all the band wagon people. You have my utmost sympathy grin

You can be mad at people leaving. But after that which server they join is non of your concern. A ton of people from SBI joined SoR, but many joined other servers like JQ and Kaineng. Are you going to curse JQ and Kaineng too?

Umm No, because I specifically pointed out it was lame to go from SBI to SoR in the same matchup.

Those who went to JQ and Kaineng were at least somewhat classy about it.

The arch enemies of SBI are, and always will be, SoS and JQ. SoR is NOT the arch enemy of SBI, and it never will be. A lot of people I know joined SoR because they want to beat SoS and JQ.

You saying the SBI people that joined JQ is more “honorable” is very laughable. Your reasoning of “current enemy=SoR” will only last 1 or 2 weeks. You know that right? How is this even remotely comparable to the months long fight against SoS and JQ?

let me introduce you to this server called Blackgate grin

You can research for yourself why nearly no one transferred to BG.

Xsorus.2507:

CHIPS.6018:

Xsorus.2507:

covenn.7165:

Xsorus.2507:

Indo.8629:

Xsorus.2507:

I think most people are annoyed about the players that went from SBI to SoR in the same matchup.

That was in very bad taste for those players to do that.

Frankly I’m hoping SoR gets crushed very bad in T1 to the point those players that left SBI for SoR are forced to spend big money to get off SoR.

That’s some heavy malice, it’s just a game. If you have that much hate for someone or something, you should take a step back and re-think things.

Oh you’re right, I should wish all the people who abandoned SBI for SoR during the very match up they’re fighting SoR well wishes on their future endeavors…lol

No, but you are bagging an entire server, many of who have been on SOR for a long time and many of who that have been nothing but respectful of your situation.

I’m specifically bagging on the players who transferred to your server, You unfortunately have to deal with that now, Which includes hopefully you getting crushed in T1. Sorry you got all the band wagon people. You have my utmost sympathy grin

You can be mad at people leaving. But after that which server they join is non of your concern. A ton of people from SBI joined SoR, but many joined other servers like JQ and Kaineng. Are you going to curse JQ and Kaineng too?

Umm No, because I specifically pointed out it was lame to go from SBI to SoR in the same matchup.

Those who went to JQ and Kaineng were at least somewhat classy about it.

The arch enemies of SBI are, and always will be, SoS and JQ. SoR is NOT the arch enemy of SBI, and it never will be. A lot of people I know joined SoR because they want to beat SoS and JQ.

You saying that “the SBI people that joined JQ is more classy” is very laughable. If you want to talk traitor, you cannot do any worst than joining JQ. Your reasoning of “current enemy=SoR” will only last 1 or 2 weeks. You know that right? How is this even remotely comparable to the months long fight against SoS and JQ?

Xsorus.2507:

covenn.7165:

Xsorus.2507:

Indo.8629:

Xsorus.2507:

I think most people are annoyed about the players that went from SBI to SoR in the same matchup.

That was in very bad taste for those players to do that.

Frankly I’m hoping SoR gets crushed very bad in T1 to the point those players that left SBI for SoR are forced to spend big money to get off SoR.

That’s some heavy malice, it’s just a game. If you have that much hate for someone or something, you should take a step back and re-think things.

Oh you’re right, I should wish all the people who abandoned SBI for SoR during the very match up they’re fighting SoR well wishes on their future endeavors…lol

No, but you are bagging an entire server, many of who have been on SOR for a long time and many of who that have been nothing but respectful of your situation.

I’m specifically bagging on the players who transferred to your server, You unfortunately have to deal with that now, Which includes hopefully you getting crushed in T1. Sorry you got all the band wagon people. You have my utmost sympathy grin

You can be mad at people leaving. But after that which server they join is non of your concern. A ton of people from SBI joined SoR, but many joined other servers like JQ and Kaineng. Are you going to curse JQ and Kaineng too?

Here is my guess. What’s yours?

T1
Sea of Sorrows
Jade Quarry
Sanctum of Rall

T2
Fort Aspenwood
Blackgate
Kaineng

T3
Tarnished Coast
Crystal Desert
Maguuma

T4
Stormbluff Isle
Dragonbrand
Yak’s Bend