Guild Wars 2

Skyro.3108:

As been said multiple times in the thread if a zerg is training on you there’s nothing that any class can really do. You have to rely on your teammates. How you relate that to skull fear being OP I have no idea. You can virtually be caught with anything and die in a zerg battle because you’re not going to be able to recognize the animations of an entire zerg to react properly.

The point about the stability was that he’d unstealth by the time your stability runs out, so the whole argument of being able to do nothing about stealth + skull fear is false. I’m not suggesting you run the trait (though it is an awesome awesome trait, and like I mentioned Life Siphon is always nice in team fights and hits stealthed targets as well), it was merely a counterpoint. People focus on too many singular aspects of the game and miss the big picture. Necros are beasts in team fights.

The problem is that necro stability (Foot in the Grave) only lasts 3 seconds. Thieves usually carry more than 1 steal skill. And then there is culling.

And the user must invest into Soul Reaping to get this trait. Soul Reaping’s stat bonus (LF% and critical damage) only benefits certain builds. When you invest into Soul Reaping you are missing out on something else. For example you are probably better off investing into Blood Magic, which would increase both your hp and total LF (your LF scales with your hp).

Life Siphon require a target to use. And it can get interrupted by Skull Fear.

Yes necros are OPed. I play wvw a lot and I often kill 7 thieves at the same time all by myself. I chase down eles and kill them even when they are in home waypoint. I have a special ability to see which mesmer clones are fakes so I have no problem killing the real mesmer. I charge head first into a warrior and dagger them to death. I can debuff a zerg of 60 enemies at the same time all by myself. I can res all dead allies on the whole map every 2 minutes. My Flesh Golem is invincible, every time it losses its head it grows back 2 new heads. When I turn on Lich Form every enemy in the map runs away. Plague Form is Chuck Norris.

There are tons of videos on Youtube showing you how this is done. Necro should be nerfed they are ruining the game!

Skyro.3108:

You’re basically just making stuff up now. Skull Fear is not 0.5 sec. Why don’t you just test this yourself? It’s not hard.

You also like… didn’t understand half of what I said. Stealth duration outside of shadow refuge = 3s. Stability duration = 3s. What’s hard to understand here?

And you are so wrong about dropping marks. There’s a ton of stuff you can do. Fear Mark was one example. Hit him with a chill mark and dodge away. You can easily get out of the range of the skull fear unless they use some form of shadowstep.

Why am I wasting my time.. this is a L2P issue sadly. Necro is one of my mains and I have no issues with skull fear.

Alright I made a new thief and just confirmed that Skull Fear does takes 1.25 sec to cast. The description on the wiki was wrong. So you are right on that one.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Fear

It doesn’t change the fact that this skill is overpowered. You said

“Stealth duration outside of shadow refuge = 3s. Stability duration = 3s.”

So what? Just because a thief stealths doesn’t mean he will use Skull Fear right there and then. A good thief will see that I got stability on, so he would wait until it runs out. Good thieves are patient.

Fear mark? Chill mark? It was zerg vs zerg. So your plan is to cast all those around yourself to stop the thief? Firstly none of the marks shuts down Skull Fear. The thief can still use it anytime even if he got hit by a mark. And what about those other 4 (or more) enemies that you can see? What are you going to do? Auto attack them with your pathetic moving Staff 1? And what happens when the enemies forces you to dodge out of your mark? You think your mark would keep you safe? Think again!

If “casting marks around yourself” is your play style, you might as well make an ele for RTL since that’s much more effective. Or you might as well make a thief and stealth.

Bas.7406:

@chips, I normally find your replies to be well thought out complaints rather than the common whines about class balance as normal, but this seems like more of a situational thing and you deciding you don’t want to do something in order to prevent it.

Guess what happens to a Theif if the decide not to bring any stealthing utilities? They die. So if you don’t bring the tools necessary to be effective against stuns, dazes, and fears why should they worry about you getting clocked in that manner?

I agree that he fear is ridiculously long, in the amount of times I have been feared I don’t remember ever being chain feared every 45 seconds. Reading your comments this is what you seem to be saying, and then dieing by the end of the second one. This seems a lot like you got out played by a theif who is specced in a matter to abuse yoru build.

As a minion build, I rarely face this situation. 1.2 seconds summons flesh wurm, I simply hit them with everythign, than they hs, and I swap to DS and hit them with a fear when they are HS spamming.

My build counters that specific build, that specific build essentially hard counters yours. If you refuse to bring any of the multitude of options that we have available to break that build than i am not sure why the game should be balanced around a niche build that specializes in stealing and fearig just the Necro.

I wasn’t chain feared. The first Skull Fear combo already downed me. I was killed 3 times by the same thief on 3 separate occasions.

Why would a thief in their right mind not bring stealth abilities? Stealth is the most overpowered skills in the game. It can be used both offensively and defensively.

I refuse to carry those necro stun break skills because, from my personal experience, they all suck in wvw. You don’t have to agree and can say L2P all you want. The only one that’s slightly useful is Spectral Walk. But my current build do not get into Soul Reaping at all, so it got a 60 second cooldown.

Do you see me complaining about Immobilized? No I don’t because necro have condition removals to deal with that. Do you see me complaining about knock down? No because I could have dodged that. But Skull Fear? I cannot remove that condition because it SHUTTED DOWN all my condition removals. I couldn’t even see the thief so I can’t dodge unless I was lucky.

Honestly I am surprised that Skull Fear aren’t more wildly used. I guess most thieves have no problem killing necros even without it, so most didn’t even bother with it. Thief having Skull Fear is just icing on the cake.

Dredlord.8076:

CHIPS.6018:

Dredlord.8076:

CHIPS.6018:

Necro just happen to also have the worst stun break in the game. Have you seen their skill recharge? None is faster than a thief’s 45 sec of stealing.

we can have fear break every ten seconds can’t we?

You can use DS while feared, but your fear won’t end unless you traited for that.

Excellent, problem solved then.

Unfortunately nope. Read how that works.

Shrouded Removal: “Lose a condition when you enter death shroud”

Question is which condition. Unless that 3 second fear happens to be the only condition you got, there is no guarantee that fear is the one that would be removed.

And if you are spec-ing into death magic, you are probably going to trait into staff marks or minion. There is little room to put Shrouded Removal.

Look at the amount of sacrifice you got to make just for a “chance” to remove that 3 second fear, which any thief fighting a necro would “automatically” get.

Skyro.3108:

Not sure what the point about being low and out of cooldowns from a zerg and then dying to a burst class. That would happen to any class.

And while Necro’s aren’t the greatest 1v1 class due to needing LF to be competitive in 1v1s, the game isn’t balanced around 1v1 anyway. Necro is among the best team fight classes in the entire game.

If you’re simply asking how to deal with stolen skull fear one thing you can do is place a fear mark in a strategic place so that you can retreat to it when they stealth. Simply running away in a straight line is also effective since skull fear has a long cast time and the duration depends on the distance from the target (farther away = less fear duration). Since their steal will be down they will likely need to have another shadowstep utility skill equipped to actually get close enough to fear you which they may not have equipped or is on cooldown.

Another option depending on your build is the stability on death shroud trait. The stability will outlast his stealth outside of shadow refuge (which you can use your fear mark on or again simply run away). Plus your life transfer will hit stealthed thieves.

Also if you suspect a skull fear it isn’t actually all that random to dodge. Skull fear has IIRC 1.25s cast. Most stealths are 3s. If you dodge anytime after 1.25s you’re actually very likely to dodge the skull fear.

But I wasn’t dying though. I had 10-12k hp. But that Skull Fear combo drains all that hp to zero, while I cannot do anything at all to defend myself. 10-12k hp aren’t dead man walking.

Fear mark doesn’t end their Skull Fear nor does it end their stealth. They can walk into the mark, get feared for 1 second, and then continue with the combo. And randomly putting AoEs down is the worst thing you can do against a thief. You are basically shutting yourself down due to skill recharge. The only AoE skill that should be spammed is Mark of Blood. That won’t help you against the Skull Fear combo.

You cannot run away from a thief. They move way too fast and will easily chase you down. You are “relatively” safer by staying with your teammates.

Skull Fear has a short 0.5 sec cast time, which aren’t that long at all. Neither can I confirm that the further you are away from the thief, the less time it affects you. In those 3 times that I got killed, the thief managed to get all 3 seconds (or more) of fear against me. I had no idea how far the thief was when he used Skull Fear because I couldn’t even see him.

Stability doesn’t do anything when you are already feared. In the wiki it is stated:

“Stability does not protect against effects which are already in place; it merely provides immunity against incoming disables. However, some skills which grant stability can also break stuns.”

Stun breaks would help you here. But I already talked about why I do not carry stun breaks.

You last part talks about luck; Randomly use dodge and by luck you would happen to dodge his Skull Fear. This aren’t a suggestion anymore. It is more like wishing me luck since I would need a ton of it.

Dredlord.8076:

CHIPS.6018:

Necro just happen to also have the worst stun break in the game. Have you seen their skill recharge? None is faster than a thief’s 45 sec of stealing.

we can have fear break every ten seconds can’t we?

You can use DS while feared, but your fear won’t end unless you traited for that.

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

And it always works because once your victim is feared he can’t do anything.

Not necessarily. The only thing you’ve shown in this thread is that if you are in a zerg vs. zerg fight, have taken lots of damage, and are out of LF, fears, and stunbreaks, Skull Fear will kill you. Who cares?

You made it sound like it is my fault for running out of LF, fear and stunbreak (if I got them) in a zerg vs zerg fight. Necro is a high priority target in zerg vs zerg because they always get hit. Skills you use against a necro will “almost” never fail.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply it was your fault. Here’s what I’m saying. Your character had been in the fight for a while, was low on health and defenses and had several key abilities on cooldown. Then he was killed by a character who didn’t have his key abilities on cooldown and had probably been in less of the fight than your character. This has been happening in MMO’s since the dawn of time. It is frustrating (especially since it was a thief, I know) but there was nothing special about it, and nothing needs to be changed.

Actually I think Skull Fear need to be nerfed. 3 seconds of AoE fear can be very lethal in wvw. The only thing preventing it from going nuts is the fact that there aren’t that many necro in wvw in the first place. So it is rare to find an enemy necro to steal this skill from.

If Anet do not fix this skill, please at least allow friendly thieves to steal Skull Fear from me. This allows me to buff my thief allies, so at least it was helpful for my side. :P

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

And it always works because once your victim is feared he can’t do anything.

Not necessarily. The only thing you’ve shown in this thread is that if you are in a zerg vs. zerg fight, have taken lots of damage, and are out of LF, fears, and stunbreaks, Skull Fear will kill you. Who cares?

You made it sound like it is my fault for running out of LF, DS recharge, fear and stunbreak (if I got them) in a zerg vs zerg fight. Necro is a high priority target in zerg vs zerg because they always get hit. Skills you use against a necro will “almost” never fail.

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.

OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.

I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.

It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.

I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.

So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.

I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.

I thought you were completely out of life force, DS was on cooldown, and you had no fears left. Even if you saw those other classes coming, it wouldn’t have mattered, the same exact thing would have happened. They have disables too, remember?

I usually try to save up one dodge for emergencies. Not always available but I try. I usually have no problem dodging away from an ele’s RTL+Updraft, since I can see it coming. When it comes to stealth thieves with Skull Fear, I cannot evade because I have no idea when he will use it. Unless I randomly guess and waste my last evade, of course.

Eles can just switch to earth, close, and disable again. It’s not like you dodge once and then they give up. Warriors can just switch to rifle and spam now that you’re out of dodges. Face it man, there was nothing you could do, there were too many enemies and your defenses had run out.

So I guess that last 12k hp I got was a write off. T_T

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?

This is so far out of date it isn’t even funny. All bugs related to HP percentage and DS were fixed months ago. Thanks for spreading misinformation.

CHIPS.6018:

And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds.

Yea, and rangers give their enemies AoE regeneration, right? Put that way, all classes are detrimental to their team when fighting a thief.

AoE regeneration for your enemies won’t kill you. It is probably based on the thief’s healing power anyways (e.g. probably not too high). A 3 second fear for all your allies will. And that 3 second fear will happen even if the said thief was level one and not wearing any items.

Not necessarily. In your case, it only killed you when

1) You were in a prolonged zerg fight
2) You had used up DS, taken lots of damage
3) You had used all your fears
4) You had used all your stunbreaks

Dude, anything will kill you in that situation. Skull Fear is not the problem here. In fact, there is no problem. The thief correctly identified who was prone to burst and out of defenses (in your case, life force and stunbreaks) and seized the opportunity. That sounds like smart play to me. I sympathize with your frustration, but I disagree that anything needs to be done about this.

Like I said against other classes I still got my very last resort: dodge. But against a stealth thief with Skull Fear I cannot dodge. It will be pure luck if I dodge successfully. I can’t see him and I can’t see him coming. What kind of necro smart play can save me here?

I agree that he seize his opportunity very well. When he use the combo my DS3 is out (either due to DS being out or DS3 on cool down). I never said he was a bad thief. But come on Skull Fear + 3x Heartseeker is not a hard combo to pull off at all. And it always works because once your victim is feared he can’t do anything.

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.

OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.

I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.

It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.

I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.

So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.

I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.

I thought you were completely out of life force, DS was on cooldown, and you had no fears left. Even if you saw those other classes coming, it wouldn’t have mattered, the same exact thing would have happened. They have disables too, remember?

I usually try to save up one dodge for emergencies. Not always available but I try. I usually have no problem dodging away from an ele’s RTL+Updraft, since I can see it coming. When it comes to stealth thieves with Skull Fear, I cannot evade because I have no idea when he will use it. Unless I randomly guess and waste my last evade, of course.

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?

This is so far out of date it isn’t even funny. All bugs related to HP percentage and DS were fixed months ago. Thanks for spreading misinformation.

CHIPS.6018:

And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds.

Yea, and rangers give their enemies AoE regeneration, right? Put that way, all classes are detrimental to their team when fighting a thief.

AoE regeneration for your enemies won’t kill you. It is probably based on the thief’s healing power anyways (e.g. probably not too high). A 3 second fear for all your allies will. And that 3 second fear will happen even if the said thief was level one and not wearing any items.

lettucemode.3789:

CHIPS.6018:

lettucemode.3789:

If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.

OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.

I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.

It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.

I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.

So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.

I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.

lettucemode.3789:

If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.

OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.

I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.

It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.

I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.

And my main point is just how easy it is to use Skull Fear + 3x Heartseeker (or whatever). This combo is a sure get (e.g. not by chance) for any thief that steals from a necro. And look at how much effort it takes for a necromancer to counter it. It is ironic that if I did save my DS/DS3 for his Skull Fear, he could have just chosen not use Skull Fear at all in the fight. So the thief, by having Skull Fear in his hands, disabled my DS b/c I was too scared to use DS. And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?

And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds. And in a zerg vs zerg this can be very fatal for my whole team.

War Mourner.5168:

If you’re dead, you’re not helping your team. If you can’t keep up with the group, that’s reducing the effectiveness of the team. And are you saying that you’re in a group fight, and this thief is repeatedly picking you out and killing you, and your team isn’t helping you?

Thieves has always picked off weak targets in zerg vs zerg fights. Thieves can stay stealthed for so long that no one is safe anywhere. My team? Well in zerg vs zerg, the thief got friends too. The point is, the thief steal from me to get Skull Fear. Then he wait for the perfect moment (e.g. I was already weakened by both him and his allies), before Skull Fear and 3X Heartseeker. One of the 3 times I died before his culling even ended.

And btw once the thief got Skull Fear, he can use it against any other of my teammates. 3 second of Fear is deadly against anyone. So in a way playing as a necromancer is liability to your team because you are giving all enemies thieves Skull Fear. 5 thieves can all steal from me and all gain Skull Fear. In that sense, maybe it is better for me to die quicker so they can’t steal from me. :P

War Mourner.5168:

hm, spectral walk is rather useful, and has a CD of 48 seconds when traited.
The Wurm however, is 40s CD, untraited, which is faster. Not that killing a dagger thief should take more then 10 seconds.

Also calling them useless when they’re exactly what you’re asking for in the thread is pretty dumb.

Once again you are ignoring what’s important. When you take a stun break skill, it takes away your effectiveness of WvW. None of the stun break skills helps your team or zerg. None whatsoever. Spectral Walk and Armor only buff yourself. Wurm and Plague Signet in wvw, seriously?? That’s why they are useless in wvw.

All you gain is a slight improvement to your personal survival. If all you care about is yourself, then you might as well play a thief also. They are already the best roamer in the game.

War Mourner.5168:

There is this wonderful thing called ‘stun break’, I would suggest using it if you’re having that much of an issue.

Necro just happen to also have the worst stun break in the game. Have you seen their skill recharge? None is faster than a thief’s 45 sec of stealing.

And even if they are better, why should a necro be forced to take a stun break skill to counter something that the thief can just pick up from stealing? And if the necro don’t bring a stun break they are dead 100% in this situation? In WvW you are not just fighting against thieves. You are trying to help your server win. Any utility skill that a necro is forced to take would further lower its already pathetic damage.

Tonight I was killed by the same thief 3 times. His plan is simple. Steal from me to get the skill Skull Fear. And then he would wait until the time is right, before stealthing and using Skull Fear and then Heartseeker 3 times. I would be dead before the 3 seconds fear ends. During this time I can’t do anything. His Heatseeker have no problem chasing my fear-running self down.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Fear

BTW this thief was patient enough to wait till I use my DS3 (I got to use that eventually to interrupt his attacks), so that’s out of the question. Once my DS3 is gone, it was sure death for me.

And nope I cannot predict and evade Skull Fear, b/c that thief is stealth 24/7. It doesn’t matter that it only effects nearby foes. I have NO IDEA where the thief is. Yes I do cast marks so yes I do know when he is near. But just b/c he is near it doesn’t mean he would use Skull Fear. He only use it at the perfect moment.

Why does the best class (thief) vs the worst class (necro) also happens to gain the best stolen skill (Skull Fear) in the game from that worst class?

And why does thief’s fear last longer than a necros? I know it is a stolen skill but everytime a thief faces a necro he gets Skull Fear. That’s why that thief makes a point to kill me again and again. It was so easy for him. 3 seconds is a VERY LONG time to lose control of your whole character.

I would really like Anet to explain how do you counter this on a CONSISTENT basis. Like, when “luck” aren’t on your side. Honestly it is so easy for a thief to kill a necro right now it aren’t funny. The only way I could have saved myself was DS3, assuming his culling perma-stealth ends before I die. But when your DS3 is on recharge, or your DS is on recharge, or you are out of LF it is over for you.

Hard to say. How big is the zerg that you are talking about?

MRA.4758:

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

Funny thing: I have only read your tl;dr and I already know that I disagree with each and every of your five points.

WvW is a hellova lot of fun for me already in its current, partially flawed form. Can’t wait for the March update.

Anyways, have fun discussing your points.

~MRA

No one is arguing that WvW isn’t fun. Of course it is fun! But that’s not an excuse to ignore all the huge flaws that WvW have right now.

From a commander’s point of view, WvW is a nightmare right now. All line battle, tactical defence, etc strategy is out the window because of culling, lag and AoE target limit. A zerg of 40+ men in tight ball formation is nearly indestructible because they cannot be seen (render too slow) and they cannot be killed (AoE target limit). Not to mention the huge lags generated when that 40+ men zerg charge at you. The only way to stop them is either have your own 40+ men zerg that do the same thing or have 10 ballistas and acs.

Face to face zerg vs zerg wise, there is literally nothing a commander can do right now. All the commander can do now is say “Stack up on me all” and then “Group stealth now” and then pray for the best. Tight Ball Formation, while being the simplest formation to make, also turns out be the the strongest formation due to culling, lag and AoE limit. This is ruining everything for the commanders. For a smaller zerg, there is no strategy, tactic and bright thinking that can stop a bigger zerg in tight ball formation right now.

All line battle, tactical defence, etc strategy is out the window because of culling, lag and AoE target limit. A zerg of 40+ men in tight ball formation is nearly indestructible because they cannot be seen (render too slow) and they cannot be killed (AoE target limit). Not to mention the huge lags generated when that 40+ men zerg charge at you. The only way to stop them is either have your own 40+ men zerg that do the same thing or have 10 ballistas and acs.

Brando.1374:

if 50+ players cant kill 3 players there is a problem…. and the problem isnt with the aoe limit.

Let’s say we got 50 medicore players facing the top 3 players in the world. You would expect those 3 elite players do deal some damage before dying. However the 50 men zerg will do 100% damage against those 3 elite players. At the same time those 3 elite players will deal REDUCED damage against the 50 men zerg because of the target limit.

So when your zerg is huge, you are even stronger. When you are in a elite squad, you are even weaker against zergs.

The single dumbest thing in wvw is the AoE limit. Worst idea ever. Name me one ancient/medical battle where the commander used a ball up un-organized formation and somehow pull off a win. You only see this in GW2 WvW because ball formation somehow reduces AoE damage to everyone around. This is ridiculous.

Second dumbing thing is culling. This once again benefit tight ball formations, since that makes rendering super slow for the enemy. What would seem like a 7 men raid is actually a 40+ men zerg slaughtering you. So ball wins once again.

The third dumbest thing is the inability as a wall defender to hit attackers below. Although you are higher, your field of view is somehow blocked so you cannot hit them below. What are you kidding me? What is the point of that wall then? The defender is in a higher place so they should be able to hit anyone below. That’s the whole point. What is up with this field of view blocked garbage?

The biggest problem with the AoE 5 target limit is it encourage ball formations. Ball formations reduces damage of everyone inside. This doesn’t make any sense. Other than Barbarians no one in the past fights in ball formations. Any random English longbow barrage would kill like a thousand of guys in a ball formation.

If the skill hits, the foes should take full damage. Pure and simple.

I would love a urban warfare map in WvW. A city with messy and tight streets that only fits 3 guys though at a time. A city like Venice.

http://www.airpano.com/files/Italy-Venice/image7a.jpg

The battles would be fought in close quarters, house to house. Ambushes from rooftops are common place. A huge zerg would be picked off by well organized mini zergs.

My idea of map size would be similar to the current maps. The city would have 20 streets by 20 streets, giving it roughly 400 street corners and at least 1,000 houses. All the houses are destructible by siege weapons and cannot be repaired, but each will be self rebuilt every 60 minutes after destruction. And there is a sewage system underneath the city that leads to everywhere.

Thoughts?

Rennoko.5731:

I believe the bottom line is; without a spammable gap closer (Dagger 2 on thief), invisibility, or ride the lightning, you can’t disengage from a fight.

Thief/mesmer/ele – can do.

You could make the argument that engineers get invis, but they generally move so slow it isn’t going to allow them to break enough distance unless they juke effectively while invis.

Oh and norns… norns can all disengage…. should have rolled a norn necro.

Simply put a necromancer is the “Yamato without those big guns”. Necromancer is not quick/tricky enough to engage an enemy. Necromancer’s firepower is very weak in the engagement. Necromancer is not quick/tricky enough to disengage a fight. All the necro is good for is drawing fire away from his/her allies.

I often sacrifice myself to buy my allies time. For example let’s say my group of 15 got caught by a group of 40 foes. It is obvious that we have to retreat. Since I know I can’t run anyways, I would actually charge head first into the enemy, and then run in another direction. That will draw maybe 20 enemies to chase me. I would survive and tank for about 10 seconds before dying. That buys my allies 10 extra seconds to get away.

So yes Necromancers does fight like the Yamato, even how they dies.

Some guild out there really prefer small group action. Some guild groups openly tell me that they refuse to run with our zerg. They like their 4-5 men party to raid camps and ambush ppl. That’s alright in my view since camps still worth points.

What pis me off is when 10+ guys tries to kill the giant grub or that spirit tree thing. OMFG RAGE!!!

And when someone report to me that 10+ guys are trying to do the JP. OMFG RAGE!!!

Just totally remove that JP, giant grub and all vistas. All these pve stuff are horrible in wvw.

I posted this in another thread. But I would suggest that Anet implement my system below. I think it is a great combination of every idea. What’s your opinion on this?

1) Bi-Daily match score tally. So every 2 days servers might move up or down a tier. This also gives a weekend rotation every 2 weeks. (2 days / 7 days a week)

2) Winner server moves up a tier. Loser server moves down a tier.

3) For playoffs/championships, total annual scores are rallied up. The playoff/championship ranking is determined by annual total score, not current rank. So the top 9 teams with the highest annual scores enter the playoffs for 2 rounds. (1vs8v9, 2vs6vs7, 3vs4vs5). The 3 winners of 1st round moves to 2nd round. Each round lasts 2 weeks, for a total of 4 weeks of playoff/championship a year. My recommanded month is December, since most people will be home.

4) Your servers get bonus annual points for winning in a higher tier (e.g. 30k for tier 1, 15k for tier 2, 7.5k for tier 3). You get a smaller bonus for being 2nd place in a tier(e.g. 10k for tier 1, 5k for tier2, 2.5k for tier 3). No bonus for the loser. This means you cannot lose on purpose to pick on smaller servers. You also want to stay in a higher tier for the higher bonuses.

-This means that everyday in wvw is important. Tiers might be changed very quickly.
-Server will no longer be stuck in the wrong tier (either too high or too low) for weeks.
-Servers will face new opponents all the time. This makes wvw more interesting.
-When playoff/championship happens, it is determined by the total annual score. What that means is that you always want to get as many points as possible. But at the same time as you win, you will face harder and harder opponents. So the only way to get ahead is to beat the opponents of your level.

Sureshot.6725:

style.6173:

Remove the 5 player AOE target. Problem solved.

Which introduces a new problem. WvWvW will become AoE centric and everyone will be running around with the strong AoE classes.

Good. Maybe then this game won’t be Thief Wars anymore.

That 5 target limit is very dumb b/c foes moves in and out of AoEs all the time. So let’s say my AoE was well-placed and hits 10 targets. But b/c of the limit I only hits 5. A second later all 10 foes moves out of my AoE so it doesn’t hit anyone. So my well-placed AoE only ended up dealing 5 hits. How is that fair? How does this encourage player development and skilled play?

Bas.7406:

Thieves are far from top three in condition damage, they are also the easiest to kill. Their mobility is their ownly survival tool. They are popular because they are easy to pickup, and the aesthetic is pretty cool.

The Necro has a significantly easier time in a face to face battle, and in controlling the fight after the initial attack. if you have ever fought a good theif you will notice they spend a majority of the time running away from necro’s attempting to avoid being hit.

Necro’s have middle of the road burst. High sustainable damage, high health, and a lot of slows and ways to control and hinder a player.

Thieves have high burst, low sustainable damage, high mobility, weak defense, and low health making them easily beaten.

Sorry but mobility+stealth is always better than hp+armor. You should look up why in WW2 that aircraft carriers with high mobility aircrafts totally outclassed battleships with heavy armor and large hulls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go

Hint: Battleships can rarely hit the aircrafts, while the aircrafts can easily hit the battleship. US only lost like 10 planes and 10 aircrew before sinking the Yamato and its 4,000 men crew.

Every time I face a thief in wvw I feel like that I am the Yamato fighting aircrafts. I can only randomly fire my underpowered AA guns (AoE nukes) to pray that they hit. And even if they do hit, the thief won’t die because my weak AA guns are not strong enough to blast them down. The best I can do is force that aircraft to run away for 10 seconds, and then he will come back fully healed to try sinking me again. At the same time the aircrafts use their torpedoes (6k damage attacks) against me which I got no defence against (no skills like stealth or Ride the Lightning) and they deals way too much damage for my damage control (healing).

There is a reason why modern jetfighters are known for their mobility and stealth, not ability to sustain damage.

Ratphink.4751:

Wanting more mobility is one thing. However the comparison being used (Necro vs. Theif mobility) is like comparing a 16 wheeler to a Sportscar. They’re completely different, and the truck will never be able to accelerate or tear down at the same speeds so pining over the difference is a useless gesture that gains nothing. If you like the Theifs mobility, then cool, play a theif. Just don’t go onto another classes forum and complain that other classes can’t give that kind of mobility when the class is designed to be one of if not the most mobile class in the game.

In this analogy, a thief can both accelerate faster and tow more weight than a necromancer. Necromancers has the advantage of having a slightly better fuel economy but that aren’t nearly enough to make up for the differences.

Why not use a combination of both like mine?

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/43555/gw143.jpg

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/39697/gw824.jpg

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/43553/gw052.jpg

Great fight at BG BL tonight. Our 15 men held out BG’s 40+ men zerg at Bluebriar for over 2 hours. ^^

Bhawb.7408:

sorrow.2364:

Learning curve is strictly related to the overall balance level. … Because you don’t need to put efforts into the profession to get better, that’s the point.
In a well balanced game, an unskilled Thief should have a tough time with an unskilled Necro, same sitation should be at higher skill level but it absolutely doesn’t happen in this game, as you also pointed out.

That just isn’t accurate. The only way that every single class will have the same learning curve is if they all played exactly the same. The reality is that certain mechanics are really easy to learn and utilize, compared to others. I could easily show this via math and graphs, but I have a feeling that it’d go completely over most people’s heads here, but if you ever get a chance, look into differential equations, they have a lot about learning curves.

Lets use two over simplified situations to show this: A warrior build using all signets, and an elementalist build using very high CD abilities (use your imagination). Now, the warrior has 4 signets, these give passive benefits that almost always outweight active effects. He essentially has 5 abilities that he needs to use properly, since the signets are being used solely for their passive effects. His entry level strength is quite high, just running around auto attacking is 60% of his build being use perfectly already. However the skill cap is very low, he has very few skills to manage, and there isn’t much he can do to increase his ability besides this very easy management of a few, low risk skills. His learning curve is nearly non-existent, yet he caps out very quickly, and not really all that high.

Swap to the elementalist, they have 25 skills to manage, they need to properly switch attunements to make sure they are in the right one at the right time, and using the activate effects well. They must manage 25 CDs, 15 of which are hidden to them at any given time. They also have very high risk for improper use of their skills. Entry level at this build gives very low output, and would be completely stomped by an entry level warrior’s build. However, they have a very, very high skill cap. Perfect management of their 25 skills gives them tenfold increase in their strength, and that high skill cap means that, with time, they will surpass the warrior by a lot, because there is more reward for proper use of their abilities, whereas they also have high risk if improperly used.

Now wait a minute, according to you easy = OP. Well I think we can very easily disprove that in this example, while the warrior build is very easy (5 skill management, low risk), and gives good entry output, once we go towards approaching skill caps, the warrior is hopelessly underpowered against this ele, because he just doesn’t have much room to work, his perfect play only gives slight increases from unskilled play. But the ele’s skill play gives incredible returns compared to unskilled.

Easy =/= OP. OP simply means that the thing in question is too effective at what it does. This could be something incredibly difficult, like a mesmer build that relies on perfectly positioned and shattered clones and almost no survivability, or a thief pressing two buttons and killing dragons. OP has nothing to do with the skill required to get those OP results. UP means that the thing in question just isn’t effective at what it wants. With incredible skill it might be made to work, but it just doesn’t cut it at a high level when tiny things make the difference.

TL;DR you have no idea what OP is or what learning curves really mean.

Actually in wvw zerg vs zerg, with massive graphic lag and network lag, that auto attack signet warrior would probably beat the 25 skills ele. No skills used=warrior wins.

I just want to point out that, even if you were right, wvw is not so clear cut and dry. Most of the time the simpler, easier to use, non-situational builds would win when you take everything into account.

When you are already surrounded by enemy zergs there is little time to think or plan. You would win or die in 30 seconds. There is no time to plan, and no errors allowed. You want to hit the “I Win” button and win. You want to hit the “I Escape” button and escape. For thieves the “I Win” is Heat Seeker and “I Escape” is stealth. For eles the “I Win” is Updraft+whatever and “I Escape” is Ride the Lightning. Necros do not have “I Win” or “I Escape”, and hence for game balance they would need something else to compensate. However the compensation is seriously lacking.

Can someone explain to me why an attrition class like the necro also has some of the longest skill cooldowns in the game? An attrition class should rely on weaker but readily available skills to wear down the enemy. The damage from an attrition class should be super CONSISTENT and not victim to missing and waiting for 40 second cooldowns.

Any skills that takes over 40 seconds to recharge is a spike skill, and it should deal over 4k of damage instantly. This isn’t even that much when you consider the damage of a single hit from a thief.

I had played necro since release. I got full exotic on her and even bought her a commander tag. But I find necro highly stressful and very frustrating at times. Yes there are moments when my necro shrines. But those times are far in between. Most of the time I had to work much harder to get so little done.

I find myself rage quitting and rage afking a lot nowadays. They are a combination of a few things. One is not being able to hunt down an enemy that I would have no problem killing on my thief. Another is not getting away in a situation when I would easily have escaped on my thief. I think about all the money I spent on her that would be better spend on another character. But I am too committed to her right now to switch. I think about all the time I spent designing her traits and items, that all leads to nothing. Often I just feel so useless that I just rage quit or rage afk.

If you do not handle stress and frustrations well, stay away from the necromancer. Necro is all about enduring though your disappointments and do the best that you can.

Talentless.5708:

sorrow.2364:

Talentless.5708:

No offense, but you need to read better (I’ll leave it to you to find your own mistakes). Furthermore, you need to learn how to play the Necro if you dont think my responses make sense or work. They are proven every day

… by some random guys on a forum with no factual statements backing them up.

I like how you guys think that anyone who wants to highlight the class problems should l2p. Jump down from your “I’m better than you” throne and think about the game balancing, seeing the Necromancer among the other 7 professions and stop kittening about how you play the profession, how anyone else should play the profession and how to play effective like we don’t know.

This isn’t a thread started to discuss on how we should improve our skills, this is a thread about how Necromancer performs compared to other professions. If you want to say anyone how good you are at playing this game, go somewhere else.

I’m sorry, but I will continue to tell people who whine about the Necro as being underpowered to learn how to kittening play. I will not have scrubs who spend more time posting on the forums than learning their class continue efforts to convince Anet to buff something that needs no such buff. If you try to ruin the Necro by getting it buffed, you kitten well better expect push-back from people who dont want that to happen.

We may play the same class, but these forums show we are definitely not in the same class. Arguing that a Necro needs buffs other than a few bug fixes is absolutely absurd.

Dude you are from JQ, the top server of T1. You got to admit that there is a chance that your wvw experience and opinion might be biased and skewed because of that. When you wvw you are either playing with the best people or running with a huge zerg. Even when you solo there are probably enough friendly roamers around to help you out. All these factors might make those class imbalances not as obvious to you.

Bhawb.7408:

Our entire argument is that your perception that the class is underpowered is 100% related to the fact that necromancers have a much harsher learning curve, and one that many people have not scaled yet. If you are bad at a class, then you cannot reasonably expect to perform well at it, regardless of time spent. Other classes might be easier, or you might just understand their playstyle better, but if YOU are not as good with necros as YOU are with mesmers, guess what the common factor is?

Aka, the class is fine, its just difficult to learn. That isn’t underpowered, its just a learning curve.

For survivability, I disagree with the learning curve argument. Once again it goes back to the fact that you cannot “learn” to use your health “better”.

You can learn to stealth better on a thief. You can learn to clone better on a mesmer. You can learn to Ride the Lightning better on an elementalist.

You cannot use your health better on a necromancer, which is all it got. When there is nothing to learn, there is no learning curve. A necro just have to try to kill the enemy before the necro’s large hp pool + DS runs out. This is no easy task when combined with necro’s mostly underwhelming damage. If a necro fails he dies. If the necro wins the enemy runs away and survives.

Another idea. When Life Force runs out, the necro can still use those DS skills but they drain 5% hp instead. Necro’s life is Life Force too.

And yes stop the natural degen of the LF when in DS.

It is very simple. Just do not disable the player’s skill bar when DS is on.

F1 turns on Death Shroud and enable the following 5 skills going from F1 to F5.

F1-Life Blast
F2-Dark Path
F3-Doom
F4-Life Transfer
F5-Return to normal

That way, the player can use DS skills, weapon skills, utilities and elites while they are on DS. That way DS is all positive and non negative.

Bhawb.7408:

Sometimes I wonder if people that post in this forum have actually spent time playing around on necros and actually understand the class.

We have unique mechanics, so do other classes, you can’t simply say “necros have no boons, therefore they can’t live, gg necro sucks”.

Lets talk about necro survivability, because ours doesn’t come from “standard” sources like boons or high healing. Ours comes from using death shroud to mitigate damage, using our huge access to condition removal/transfer to render using conditions a liability, use our own access to debilitating conditions to reduce incoming damage, and finally our actual heals/life steal to heal up the damage we’ve taken.

I don’t know the exact amount of HP given by DS, but lets just assume for this example that a full, untraited DS pool (0% extra life force pool) has the same HP value as your current HP. Let’s also assume you have 20k HP (our base hp is 18k, so this is hardly any investment, and makes it easier to show with math). So for each 1% of life force you gain from an ability, that is 200hp “healed” to your secondary life bar. I’ll list just the weapon abilities below (post would be huge otherwise, and you should get the point by then), along with how much effective hp you are healed for by the life force gain.

Now, lets look at what skills give life force, and how much from weapon skills + the one DS skill:
DS 4: gives 3% LF per tick per person – 600hp per tick per person (note: I’m not 100% sure if it is per tick or overall, however more people hit does stack LF gains)
Staff 1: 3% LF per hit, up to 3 hit – 600hp per person up to 1800
Axe 2: 4% LF if all hit, up to 800hp
Scepter 2: reads to give 2% LF per condition, not sure if this works as intended – 400hp, up to 22% LF gain (only in completely ideal situations: ie never going to happen) if this works as it reads.
Dagger 1, part 3 of chain: 4% LF, 800hp
Focus 4, 3% LF per enemy bounce (not sure if it applies for allies too), 600hp per bounce

So just looking at weapon skills, many of our auto attacks, 2nd abilities, or offhand abilities effectively give us upwards of 400hp per hit. This doesn’t include traits, or utility skills that can also give LF, also effectively giving you HP. And this doesn’t include the damage reduction/survivability reduction we afflict enemies with in battle.

Necros look bad on paper because of the unique mechanics that we use to live longer, but saying that necros can’t survive is only out of ignorance of our mechanics.

DS replaces your whole skill bar. You are not yourself when you are in DS. And DS drains naturally. Of course LF gives you extra hp. But a 100% full LF bar would be worth maybe 50% of your regular hp bar at best.

Talentless.5708:

sorrow.2364:

First off, what makes a profession have good survivability?
I think that what gives survivability to someone is:

Now, with this post, you can have a clear view of what “survivability” mean and probably take your conclusions.

I am very bored this morning, so forgive me for picking apart this post:

1.) Stability – I run with Lich Form, which includes stability, but to the greater point, not every class has stability either, although it is made available to you by others in your group.

2.) Protection – I also run with enough Soul Reaping to receive Spectral Armor automatically after taking damage. While I dont also run with Spectral Armor as a skillset, I do run with Spectral Wall, and I am sorry, but there is nothing “unreliable” about either the protection it gives you and your team, nor the vulnerability stacks it builds for you on the enemy.

3.) Vigor & Evades – Do you really find yourself in need of more? I just disagree with the importance of them with our higher natural HP and life force. I am glad that you only point out Thief, Ranger and Elementalists, because they are all paper and can use any possible held in avoiding damage. Necros are designed to take that hit.

4.) Mobility – I also run with Spectral Walk, and given that you constantly have a haste buff from others, I save it for fights. Contrary to your point, we have what I would argue to be a very good escape tool. However, to the bigger point,again you compare escape tools on a class designed and capable of taking in more damage to classes like Thieves that dont have half our damage intake capability. That doesnt make us better than Thieves, it makes us different, so the argument that we should have everything they should have is just silly.

5.) HP – I think you miss the point of the large Necro HP pool. The point isnt that HP is a defensive ability by itself. The point is on your gear and items you can ignore the need for Vitality. Since you naturally have plenty of HP, and you have life force that doesnt make use of HP, you are in perfect position to focus on getting at least 1800 toughness even in a power build.

6.) Visual Confusion – You’re right, we dont have clones like Mesmers and we dont have stealth. I’m sorry, but how many other classes have this, and again, are they also paper like Mesmers and Thieves? Your mistake here isnt making a good point of the usefulness of your described “visual confusion”, but on your insinuation that Necro should have access to it.

7.) Constant Heals – This one left me confused. We have a heal that also does more healing per condition on us. We have blood trait for people who go that where where you are siphoning health from your attacks. We have regeneration from at least staff and focus, maybe more… not going to check. We have more than one HP pool, which is more important because no one else can pop DS when you’re low on health and just used your heal to give you free time to take damage until your heal is up again.

In short… If your Necro is built and played right, you can kill and “out-live” any class in the game. The only class you would not be able to solo is a P/D Thief, because all they will do is stealth and run away.

Dude no offence, but think about what you just said. So your skills 7 to 9 are all spectral skills. Spectral Armor, Spectral Walk and Spectral Wall. In other words all 3 of your utility skills are defensive, meaning you have no offence at all. To top that off you use Lich Form for your elite, which prevents you from using your healing skills and your “defensive” Spectral skills. In other words, using Lich Form for the purpose of tanking is “counter productive”.

For that kind of sacrifice your defence better be top notch. Nope. Even if you are not in Lich Form, you still cannot tank because you heal so little. You cannot outrun anyone. Your protection lasts 6 seconds. You dodge endurance takes forever to recharge. You have no visual confusion.

The only tanky/survivability thing about the necro its their high hp and Death Shroud (meaning even more hp). However that’s all they got.

The problem with “using” hp as the solo method for defence is that the player cannot improve. How do you “use” your hp better? You can’t. On the other professions you can stealth better, you can clone better, you can Ride the Lightning better. Hp? Nope you cannot learn to “use” your hp better.

Conclusion: You cannot point to one or two skills. You have to look at the feasibility of the whole build as a whole. Sure Spectral Armor gives you 6 seconds of protection. But that 72 second cool down make it un-feasible for the purpose of defence. Sure Lich Form gives you stability. But you cannot use healing or any utility (Spectral) skills with it, making it un-feasible for the purpose of defence.

Well snow leopard form is a pretty good skill for roaming thanks to stealth and charge. But yeah the other Norn skills sucks. LOL at Snow Wurm and Owl.

In zerg vs zerg, necros got decent survivability. If you want to roam however, necro has the worst survivability in the game. Necros got a ton of hp with DS but that’s all they got.

For wvw it will be powermancer. Conditions gets removed way too fast in zergs. Not to mention players can retreat behind their zerg and recover if you cannot kill them right there and then.

General.7803:

WM have 3 Elite CMD.
but all 3 CMD can’t play GW2 for 3 days.
(i was suspended today, and other 2cmd are work, holiday)
ok. i will rest for 1 week.
WM sub-cmd still will do best for Kaineng, but will be very hardly fight.
Goodbye Kaineng for 1 week.

Suspended again? T_T

Who are the top 3 commanders in BG? I don’t even know who they are but I am sure they must be botting too.

Hope to see you again soon.

Basically when it comes to computer performance, when you have a 40 men zerg in close quarters you have a huge advantage.

1)Graphic lag + culling.
All your allies are pre-rendered so they won’t lag your computer. But your enemies, when you suddenly rush into them, causes huge graphic lags for them since all those characters need to be newly rendered.

2) Network lag.
When you rush your 40 men zerg into the enemy, and all cast skills at once, it causes massive network lag for the enemy. Your enemy cannot use any skills because your forces already filled all the “skill usage slots” available on the server. So your enemy literally just sit there and let you kill them. There are cases where even dodging won’t respond.