Guild Wars 2

I truly love what WvW had the potential to be.

I truly hate what it has become.

There are LOTS of perfectly valid defects/omissions/problems to complain about in this game. Buying something and then throwing it away due solely to your own carelessness is not one of them.

Ision.3207:

In that interview they quote Johnason as saying, “Some of our players believe that because we are doing this Living World seasons, and these features or these big feature-builds, that it means that the features you would traditionally get in an expansion, or the content you would traditionally get in an expansion, is not something that will get added to Guild Wars 2. And that is not true at all.”

Oh dear … features and content you would traditionally get in an expansion? Let me see, what am I used to seeing in mmo expansions? Hmmm … well there is usually a new dungeon or 2, and there is usually a new zone or 2, sometimes a new profession, and almost always new skills for each class …

Let’s see, anything else I’m traditionally used to used to seeing in an mmo expansion? Oh yeah, I almost forgot … traditionally, mmo expansions usually include 5 to 10 new levels to grind, and traditionally they also include a new higher-stat tier of gear to grind …

Of course it’s all just speculation, and we really don’t know. But later on Johanson gives us a small hint, when he says, “… but we absolutely are going to do sweeping new features that you would traditionally only get in expansions – large regions, content and progression additions to your characters in the form of growth and professions and races. Those are all things that you will see in the lifespan of Guild Wars 2.”

I understand what progression additions in the form of professions and races is, but the progression additions in the form of “growth” … now that one is a bit ambiguous to me?

Oh well, I’m sure it will all turn out very well, and the changes will be consistent with the tradition of the GW franchise.

Pretty certain you’re right about the consistent part.

Pariah.8506:

That’s why we need underflow instead of overflow.

The only reason people flock to the popular servers is because they know their own server to be empty. If underpopulated servers were certain they’d get people from other underpopulated servers redirected to them by the system they’d band together and do the event.

Honestly, this would fix ALL the issues mentioned in the OP post. Correct me if I’m wrong.

LOL. You realize that ANet doesn’t have discrete servers, right? They lease capacity in bulk from Akamai and ANet never even knows where or how many physical servers their game is running on. It’s all a virtual cloud of capacity as far as they are concerned. So having spillover across “servers” means essentially the same thing as making WvW instanced … as several of us have been advocating all along, and as it appears Edge of the Mists will be.

Kevan.8912:

Sir Isaac The Great.5341:

Been doing the same dungeons since start….hardly anything added in that is new or fun. Everything I do like only lasts a short bit. They seem to have went in a direction I don’t care for…gear grind, horrible living story, nerf this nerf that…etc etc

the strange thing about gw2, IMHO, is that, although many people complain about what anet didn’t do (lack of new content, boredom, stalemate…and of course i agree with it), a lot of others do complain about what anet did.
i’d like more a static gw2 with just marginal changes, than a “dynamic” gw2 as anet seems to intend it (grindy new high stats tiers).
so strange

There’s nothing strange about that at all … just sad. ANet has steadfastly ignored the great majority of inputs (complaints/suggestions/requests) from players and instead implemented a lot of ill-chosen things that nobody asked for or wanted … all the while avoiding meaningful discussion like the plague. That’s how you create dissatisfaction from both ends, and ANet has practically turned that into an art form.

Marvo Pandaros XXV.7239:

WvW started off good. I remember being in a party of 5 fighting little groups of enemies (5 – 10 players) and it was all about skill and a group being in one mind. Then it turned into useless zergs. Guilds then focused on getting as much players as possible to have bigger zergs. So now most guilds I have been in are useless because no one helps each other and they try to force u to be in their WvW zergs (im in blackgate btw).

Agree. I started out on Devona’s Rest, and even when we had very low populations we had a good mixture of scouts, small teams, and larger groups trying to play strategically for weekly points. After a while some larger guilds transferred in and we learned a lot of new tactics that made WvW really fun in spite of the lag and culling.

After ANet diluted game play with all the siege mastery stuff and corrupted objectives with zerg-centric rewards, players all migrated toward a few high pop servers and DR pretty much became a wasteland. Eventually I caved in and joined the rest of my guild on SBI, only to find out that WvW now (and not just for my server) has turned into an almost total emphasis on hit-and-run tactics to flip objectives. Nobody defends except in the form of zerg retaliation, and nobody gives a kitten about which objectives offer more strategic advantage over others. It reminds me of Conquest in Rift (which is what finally drove me away from that game) where position and strategy mean nothing, and simple mindless quantity counts for everything.

It’s really difficult to believe that any game publisher could so totally misunderstand and screw up something with so much potential. WvW today is just a shell of what it was a year ago.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Ralron.8124:

FYI the farmers that farm linen get mad when you finish the event , cause if you set it up from the start ( witch you need to do most of the time ) it takes about 45min to set up that farm spot.

So when selfish people like you show up and ruin it , yes they get mad , specially when they ask you nicely to NOT finish it.

1 good farm spot in game VS a TONE of events you can go do some where else.

Thats why we cant have nice things . to many selfish solo players in GW2.

Players finishing the event are not ruining anything, they’re playing the game as it is intended.

The ones being selfish here are the farmers that are exploiting an event. They don’t get to call ‘dibs’ and take ownership of the event, it’s there for all the players and it’s there to be completed.

Sounds more to me like the guy finishing the event is exploiting the farmers. They’re the ones who took the trouble to group together to accomplish something (whether you agree with what they’re doing or not), while the guy who swoops in to finish the event wouldn’t have even had the opportunity to do so if it weren’t for the farmers.

Bottom line is that ANet once again created something the ramifications of which they didn’t anticipate and probably still don’t understand. If in-game activities end up pitting players against players in an emotional and contested manner (outside of PvP, of course), you can blame game design … not the players.

GW2 has shown the most promise of any MMO I’ve ever seen … and as much as I’ve looked forward to ESO I think that GW2 still has significantly more potential … but after 18 months of totally WASTING that potential I no longer have any faith that ANet will actually fulfill it and I’m literally just counting the days until April 4. In that respect, GW2 is also the most disappointing MMO I’ve ever played.

Neural.1824:

Not that the devs read every thread on the forum, but it would be nice to hear a devs perspective on the feasability of some of the suggestions.

Good luck with that. We can’t get devs to respond to serious issues and you want them to comment on the weather? It’s been 18 months since launch and we still don’t have a clue what the devs think about 99% of the topics that get raised in these forums.

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

Vayne.8563:

The population on my server, Tarnished Coast, is high. Too high sometimes as I end up on overflow servers when trying to do stuff.

But I’m confused how someone can say they love this game and not like what’s become the game’s main features. I mean, the OP is waiting for serious content, where as some people, including me, like this content better than the so-called serious content the OP seems to be asking for.

This content is drawing a lot of people, possibly because people like it.

Harder, challenging more serious content has always drawn less people.

You can love a game and lose interest when it go’s in a direction you don’t like quiet easily but oh ye Ps’ Good to see you the most well known GW2 forum poster since launch saying something positive for a change, I lost count about 3 million posts ago of the things you complained about. Keep up the good work lol

Are you sure you’re talking about the right player? I have general respect for Vayne’s posts, but he and I are usually on the opposite side of most topics and he’s the one who typically defends ANet.

Johje Holan.4607:

Cactus.2710:

Johje Holan.4607:

Cactus.2710:

Straegen.2938:

Atherakhia.4086:

Class balance? Asking too much.
Class worth? Asking too much.
Population? Asking too much.
Coverage? Asking too much.

WvW will never be completely balanced, but it’s miles away from where it should be.

No MMO that I have every played has achieved this. If it was easy, someone surely would have created a system that worked beyond simplifying combat into an FPS shooter.

Population and coverage balance can easily be achieved via 3-faction instanced matches with equal caps. If you’ve never played an MMO that has achieved that, you’ve apparently never played Rift. In spite of all of its several incomprehensibly stupid faults, Conquest in Rift at least was able to most of the time provide balanced matches. WvW in GW2 could do the same, but for some reason ANet can’t seem to abandon the server-vs-server-vs-server concept in spite of the fact that almost nobody cares about server “loyalty” (witness the rampant server hopping when transfers were free) and in spite of the fact that ANet doesn’t user fixed servers anyway … they lease server capacity in bulk from Akamai (!).

Population balance and even coverage is fixable … ANet simply isn’t willing to do it.

I’ve been thinking and may be reconsidering my position on 3-faction alliances being the answer. This is because what happens when one alliance is the weaker one? It is basically doomed to failure forever. It is going to lose people only compounding the issue.

At least with server v. server v. server, there is somewhere else to go – another server. With 3-faction alliances there’s no where to go – except to one of the other alliances but that doesn’t solve the issue, it just makes it worse actually.

Uhh … how did you miss the part about equal population caps?

Besides, if matches were instanced and drew from ALL “servers” (no such thing, really), there’d be no problem in having sides with the same populations. Lots of players to draw from, and when one match gets full another one pops in parallel.

Why is this so difficult to comprehend? And it doesn’t even require any more server capacity than the current system.

So you’re saying you have 3 factions. Multiple instanced matches.

What are the win conditions? Is each instance calculated seperately? So you have Match 1 won by Faction A. Match 2 could be won by Faction C? Or are all scores calculated and then added together?

Is it done dynamically at every instant? So during NA prime time you may have 5 matches going on. But at Sea you may only have 2 matches going on? And the last instance would almost certainly be unbalanced so that instance may not count towards score, just be like an overflow.

That might work. At least you’d have all but one instance being even. But like I said, I’m not sure.

The way it worked in Rift was that each instance was treated separately, and each player earned currency as a function of how their faction placed. Scores from multiple instances would not be summed. Nobody gives a kitten about servers anyway, other than what affect it has on them personally (if they did we wouldn’t have so many people griping about rewards), so I don’t see any problem here.

And yes, the number of simultaneous instances in play would be a function of the number players trying to player, so off-prime times would have fewer instances going. Again, I don’t see the problem with this … it’s no different than EOTM is going to work.

And that last bit is exactly why I think this should be a no-brainer. Pretty much all ANet would need to do is convert is convert all WvW maps to the same system they plan to use for EOTM, except probably with goals that take longer to achieve for the win.

Juba.8406:

we are ready for it :P, make it happen soon.

i know some of you will flame me xD , but other from lagg, long ques and PvE greens, WvW season 1 was a success.

Some?

Johje Holan.4607:

Cactus.2710:

Straegen.2938:

Atherakhia.4086:

Class balance? Asking too much.
Class worth? Asking too much.
Population? Asking too much.
Coverage? Asking too much.

WvW will never be completely balanced, but it’s miles away from where it should be.

No MMO that I have every played has achieved this. If it was easy, someone surely would have created a system that worked beyond simplifying combat into an FPS shooter.

Population and coverage balance can easily be achieved via 3-faction instanced matches with equal caps. If you’ve never played an MMO that has achieved that, you’ve apparently never played Rift. In spite of all of its several incomprehensibly stupid faults, Conquest in Rift at least was able to most of the time provide balanced matches. WvW in GW2 could do the same, but for some reason ANet can’t seem to abandon the server-vs-server-vs-server concept in spite of the fact that almost nobody cares about server “loyalty” (witness the rampant server hopping when transfers were free) and in spite of the fact that ANet doesn’t user fixed servers anyway … they lease server capacity in bulk from Akamai (!).

Population balance and even coverage is fixable … ANet simply isn’t willing to do it.

I’ve been thinking and may be reconsidering my position on 3-faction alliances being the answer. This is because what happens when one alliance is the weaker one? It is basically doomed to failure forever. It is going to lose people only compounding the issue.

At least with server v. server v. server, there is somewhere else to go – another server. With 3-faction alliances there’s no where to go – except to one of the other alliances but that doesn’t solve the issue, it just makes it worse actually.

Uhh … how did you miss the part about equal population caps?

Besides, if matches were instanced and drew from ALL “servers” (no such thing, really), there’d be no problem in having sides with the same populations. Lots of players to draw from, and when one match gets full another one pops in parallel.

Why is this so difficult to comprehend? And it doesn’t even require any more server capacity than the current system.

Straegen.2938:

Atherakhia.4086:

Class balance? Asking too much.
Class worth? Asking too much.
Population? Asking too much.
Coverage? Asking too much.

WvW will never be completely balanced, but it’s miles away from where it should be.

No MMO that I have every played has achieved this. If it was easy, someone surely would have created a system that worked beyond simplifying combat into an FPS shooter.

Population and coverage balance can easily be achieved via 3-faction instanced matches with equal caps. If you’ve never played an MMO that has achieved that, you’ve apparently never played Rift. In spite of all of its several incomprehensibly stupid faults, Conquest in Rift at least was able to most of the time provide balanced matches. WvW in GW2 could do the same, but for some reason ANet can’t seem to abandon the server-vs-server-vs-server concept in spite of the fact that almost nobody cares about server “loyalty” (witness the rampant server hopping when transfers were free) and in spite of the fact that ANet doesn’t user fixed servers anyway … they lease server capacity in bulk from Akamai (!).

Population balance and even coverage is fixable … ANet simply isn’t willing to do it.

Oghier.7419:

Mosharn.8357:

im not saying thieves are hard to kill or anything..

So… you’re saying thieves are not hard to kill, yet it annoys you that some of them manage to delay death or even flee.

Clearly, this is a matter requiring urgent attention.

LOL. I tried to give you more recs for that but Mosharn was sucking all the rationality out of this thread and they didn’t take.

ANet doesn’t own their own servers … they lease capacity from Akamai. What do you want to bet that after they did that last round of optimizing they decided they could get by with less leased capacity and overshot the mark …

Straegen.2938:

Cactus.2710:

In any case, there are several other more modern MMO game engines that have been used in recent releases, among them being Forgelight, VisionEngine8, BigWorld, and HeroEngine. I don’t have a clue how any of those stack up against GW2’s engine overall, but I’d bet that saying “GW2 uses the best production MMO engine” currently in use is inaccurate. If you are more knowledgeable on that than the rest of us, please state some specifics to back up your claim.

The only production game Forgelight has that is comparable IMO is Planetside 2 which is an FPS MMO with very simple combat mechanics. VisionEngine8… that is Havok and I am unaware of any AAA MMO titles using it. Same with BigWorld. HeroEngine is SWToR and not only does that game look worse its large scale combat had to be removed from the game.

Simply put GW2 has no modern WvW equal in production release that I am aware of.
If someone can show me a relatively modern MMO engine that works on this scale with complex combat, I would love to try it. I keep playing GW2 because the landscape for this style of gameplay is currently barren. Upcoming titles I have some exposure to are not looking very good either.

EverquestNext will be using Forgelight as well, and from what I can tell the plans for that game are very ambitious.

By the way, do you know which game engine EOS will be using? I didn’t find it.

bradderzh.2378:

I do dislike it when a topic has a ‘developer reply’ which is just moderating the thread. It draws my attention to the topic in a way almost akin to false advertising haha

That aside, I am in Australia, and play on us servers. My timezone is about 12 hours ahead of most players. I just don’t feel there is any feasible solution anet can implement that doesn’t hurt an area of its playerbase.

It’s selfish to assume the hours invested into the game by Americans are somehow more valuable and worth more points than the hours invested by people in other timezones.

Pretty certain that a large number of us who strongly disagree with the OP are Americans. Most us us (not all, obviously) are smart enough to understand that the world revolves around its axis, not around a couple of the longitude lines.

Straegen.2938:

Cactus.2710:

King Amadaeus.8619:

You just think ANET’s servers are bogged down now….

^this^ The extra burden on an outdated and already overburdened game engine would be huge.

Whoa… this is still the best production MMO engine out right now. This is also one of the few complex combat massive scale MMOs around. Sure there are problems but I have not seen anything coming down the pike that is noticeably better (and that includes Wildstar and ESO).

The game engine used in GW2 is an updated version of that used in GW1 from several years ago, using middleware developed by Havok back in 2007. How much either of them have been updated since then is uncertain, but the very fact that GW2 has such a meager map limitation indicates that the updates were more geared toward graphics enhancements than overall capability (which was the subject of this thread). Besides, how long have game engines been able to utilize more than one CPU core?

I suspect that much of capability problem associated with GW2 lies with some really poor decisions they made to needlessly go so overboard on visual effects that the game couldn’t handle, but the bottom line is that the combination of the game engine and how ANet uses it results in it being overwhelmed and not capable of handling a bunch of extra computational overhead.

In any case, there are several other more modern MMO game engines that have been used in recent releases, among them being Forgelight, VisionEngine8, BigWorld, and HeroEngine. I don’t have a clue how any of those stack up against GW2’s engine overall, but I’d bet that saying “GW2 uses the best production MMO engine” currently in use is inaccurate. If you are more knowledgeable on that than the rest of us, please state some specifics to back up your claim.

Sin.4130:

noelclover.9408:

In football there’s a half time. For simplicity sake, let’s assume that there isn’t a half time; only a small break in which players swap places. So this gives up 90/2 minutes, 45 minutes.

Now, since we’ve divided the time into two and am placing WvW onto football since you love it oh-so-very-much, let’s assume that these equally divided time shifts represent Day and Night. 45 minutes Day, 45 minutes Night.

You forgot about 1 thing and this is what we talk about :
First and second half of soccer matches have same amount of ppl. In GW2 second (night according to you) has near none by one side, this is this problem. GJ! You got it at last!

In soccer, one side doesn’t decide on their own to leave the field in the 2nd half. In GW2, nobody is forcing you and your server mates to leave the match … you are doing so of your own free will and then pretending that just because you don’t want to play any more that the people on the other side shouldn’t either.

I’d say “you got it at last!” except we all know that you didn’t … and won’t … ever.

Bubi.7942:

I mean. At a boxing match, would you punch the opponent during the breaks?

There isn’t any break in the game … you and others are simply deciding not to play because it’s convenient for you to do so. If I’m in a boxing match and suddenly my opponent drops his hands because he’s tired and doesn’t want to fight any more I’m going to drop him with a haymaker.

You’re entire position is so egocentric that it boggles the mind.

King Amadaeus.8619:

You just think ANET’s servers are bogged down now….

^this^ The extra burden on an outdated and already overburdened game engine would be huge.

Sin.4130:

Just let players from same (nearest) time – zones play together 24/7. It is so simple that I can’t understand why it is not implemented yet.

I’m not surprised. The lack of overall understanding you’re displaying in this thread is staggering.

Aeonblade.8709:

I will always take losing in a blowout over fighting the same boring fights week after week.

The trouble with that isn’t the losing … it’s the fact that when you are severely outmanned your team is simply unable to enjoy the full range of playstyles that WvW was originally intended to have. Laying siege to a keep is ridiculous when all it means is that your entire group turns into loot bags in a heartbeat. Running around trying to avoid the enemy zerg while looking for small skirmishes, capping the odd camp or control point, or killing an occasional yak is a mere shell of what WvW was supposed to be. Worse yet, it isn’t even PvP … except for the skirmishes part it’s all just PvE.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Cactus.2710:

Likely true. The curious thing then is that ANet has unwittingly created a template for some other game publisher to do it right. There are many desirable aspects of WvW in GW2 (if there weren’t there wouldn’t be so many of us still here to gripe about the more egregious shortfalls), but the problems stick out like a sore thumb … AND … are correctable. It’s practically like ANet is saying “Here … I released this popular open world PvP subset of my game but I’m really not interested in messing with it any further. Please modify it as you see fit and take away a bunch of my customers.”

yep, i believe the Elder Scrolls Online with have a WvW mode as well, not sure what it will be called but i from the videos i saw, it looks interesting, just a shame they ripped the combat from the Single player games just dont see it working in an MMO

I think the large scale 3-faction PvP in ESO is called The Alliance War, and they’ve geared it to be capable of really massive battles without lag or fps issues. There are also all sorts of peripheral activities you can contribute if you don’t like the zerg environment, and the player base is not constrained to “servers”. But I’m with you on the combat mechanism … I much prefer the system used in GW2, where movement is controlled by the mouse and abilities by keys. ESO uses right/left mouse buttons to control right/left hand attacks and WASD-type movement, and ranged effects require aiming via cross hairs with transit time delays. I suspect that ESO combat will either play more slowly or migrate toward even more AoE than WvW is plagued with.

I’m also not overly pleased with the trinity-style combat that will be used in ESO, although from what I can tell the ESO implementation of that allows for considerable in-between builds that are less dependent upon other builds than most trinity systems.

In any case, ESO will get the benefit of the doubt for me at launch. Worst case it isn’t likely to disappoint me more than WvW has.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I personally don’t think they even like WvW and if they had their way, they would remove it but seeing as how many play it that would be VERY bad for them and the game as they would lose A LOT of people.

Likely true. The curious thing then is that ANet has unwittingly created a template for some other game publisher to do it right. There are many desirable aspects of WvW in GW2 (if there weren’t there wouldn’t be so many of us still here to gripe about the more egregious shortfalls), but the problems stick out like a sore thumb … AND … are correctable. It’s practically like ANet is saying “Here … I released this popular open world PvP subset of my game but I’m really not interested in messing with it any further. Please modify it as you see fit and take away a bunch of my customers.”

1. balanced matches
2. balanced matches
3. balanced matches
4. balanced matches
5. balanced matches

It doesn’t matter what you or I or anyone else wants for WvW, though … history proves we aren’t going to get it. We might get something we didn’t ask for, but virtually nothing we did.

Basharic.1654:

I would also warn ArenaNet to be very careful in any implementation that combines servers. I love Maguuma and the people on it and we definitely have a distinct “personality” in WvW. The fun and gameplay I’m enjoying in WvW is greatly enhanced by the larger community-forming aspects of fighting for you server.

I saw what battle groups did to WoW BGs first hand. While it solved some significant population balance problems, it also turned the only WvW analog battleground of the time (Alterac Valley) into an uncommandable Zerg fest mess because no one knew anyone.

Your argument is totally refuted by the massive server hopping that would occur if transfers were again free. Server loyalty is far surpassed by guild loyalty, and for many players the prospect of even matches surpasses both. I haven’t seen whether or not players can enter EOTM as a group, but that would make sense to me (which means it probably doesn’t to ANet).

Besides, if you don’t like how EOTM is structured you can always stick with the normal maps. I’d bet that you would have less trouble getting into EB than you do now if EOTM offers balanced matches that draw from servers outside the current matchup (which admittedly is still uncertain). Go play with your “community” while the rest of us actually compete on an even playing field.

Just to be clear, I’m not predicting that EOTM will be worth anything. ANet has shown an astounding capability to screw these things up. I’m only saying that combining servers would be a plus, not a minus.

Jaxs.5830:

Cactus.2710:

Junkpile.7439:

Only way to make this popular is share these overflows between every server or all people who wanna play there need to move in same tier so there is enough players in maps. I don’t really have any motivation play PPT kitten so this map is kind of www last chance for me.

It is unfathomable to me that ANet is not making EOTM instances available to all servers at the same time. It would be the simplest way to demonstrate whether or not players would prefer Red/Green/Blue matchups for the other maps instead of the current server-based system, and in addition restricting it to the current matchup is going to majorly kitten off players on low pop servers who want to try EOTM but cannot.

It’s incredible how the WvW devs keep proving how out of touch they are with their own game.

EoTM is a tool to help them release the game in china where they are expecting long ques. The only thing it has to do with the NA release is that we are the free beta testers.

So making it game wide by color probably never crossed their mind. If there is one thing ANET is good at, it is kittening away potential.

^This^

Even after all this time, though, I can’t decide whether this massive squandering of potential (I’m speaking primarily about WvW here) is rooted in poor understanding of their own game … or internal conflicts with other priorities and directions for the game as a whole. The persistent fumbling of the ball with respect to WvW simply baffles me. I’ve played since launch and there has clearly been a shift in direction relative to the vision espoused by the original devs, but the devs have changed as well and it’s difficult to tell from the outside which brought about the other.

Zietlogik.6208:

Elthurien.8356:

New map to address the Queue’s due to arrive when there are no queue’s left in any tier.
All the effort gone into an overflow map that has no effect on the outcome of the weekly match and there wont even be an overflow.

You can join EotM whenever you want. It is labeled as an overflow kinda, but it is just another map you can join, like Ob Sanctum.

It has no bearing on server score, because it contains every server (all NA servers are grouped together when joining the map, and so are all EU)

People just love to find things to complain about lol

And some people make stuff up just because they can. Here’s the exact quote from the official EOTM FAQ, and I could find nothing since this was posted indicating that anything has changed … certainly not anything that would support your erroneous claim.

Devon Carter:

“Q: How does the overflow work? Is it possible to fight against other servers? Is it combined with EU and NA or just one specific region?
A: The current iteration is that you will only be matched up against the other worlds in your current WvW matchup. That is one of the many aspects of the map that we will be actively getting feedback on from the community and the testers.”

Zietlogik.6208:

Elthurien.8356:

New map to address the Queue’s due to arrive when there are no queue’s left in any tier.
All the effort gone into an overflow map that has no effect on the outcome of the weekly match and there wont even be an overflow.

You can join EotM whenever you want. It is labeled as an overflow kinda, but it is just another map you can join, like Ob Sanctum.

It has no bearing on server score, because it contains every server (all NA servers are grouped together when joining the map, and so are all EU)

People just love to find things to complain about lol

Post a link or it isn’t true. I swear I saw a post from ANet saying that EOTM is restricted to the current matchup.

WiggsMagee.7130:

Is there a way to contact a dev or something and see if anything can be done here?

At least for WvW, that number appears to have been disconnected a long time ago.

selan.8354:

Belenwyn.8674:

In my eyes Arenanet needs to install different variances for Europe and NA. In Europe the new match making system works fine introducing decent variations of matchups, whilst in NA it causes stagnation and boredome.

The spread in Europe between 1 and 24 is around 880 points. In NA we have over 1100 points. This should already show that both continents need different equations for the match making.

yeah very true.it is soo boring facing the same servers over and over

To be honest, I’ve never understood that comment. Sure … you may be facing the same server over and over again but not likely the same players all the time, and certainly not if there are different groups fighting on the map. I’ll bet that if we didn’t see server names very few of us would really know whether you were fighting the same server or not from week to week. All this talk about boring rematches strikes me as being way more imaginary than real. The only boring aspect is if you are on one side or the other of a badly unbalanced match each week.

Grav.3568:

The matchup system shouldn’t have to be a choice between variety and competitiveness.

If server populations were properly balanced across the board, then we could have both.

Not true at all. Server pops don’t equate at all to WvW pops, and WvW pops aren’t consistent within the same server from day to day and hour to hour. Besides, ANet has far less ability to control server pops over time since it involves player actions, while setting up Red-vs-Green-vs-Blue matches with equalizing caps is totally within ANet’s control purely via coding on their end.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Pick your poison; either have a close to a competitive match-up as you can get, or one where your get destroyed or one where your doing the destroying. Those are your only real options, which unfortunately if you want a competitive one, means your playing the same servers all the time.

The only thing that will ever fix it which some people seem to be dead set against (for some odd reason), is the concept of WvW has to end as we know it. Get rid of server vs server. Make it so you join either factions or guilds. You log on, and you pick a guild or faction to fight for, and you can clearly see each map and how many are on each map before you join. This way, you will never have a blowout match unless you choose.

This way, you’ll always be fighting different people and guilds, very rarely you’ll ever encounter the same group. You won’t have skill lag unless you choose to play on a jammed map. You won’t have ques. To me, this sounds exactly what people want, diversity, and matches that aren’t stale.

Now the question is, why does player’s “server pride” get in the way of a system that offers complete diversity and un-stale match ups? There are already 3 factions in the game; there are already 3 borderlands. Change it to guilds if people don’t like the factions name. There are already 8 instances of each map due to the number of tiers. Given what we already know that some maps are completely barren on some servers, the likely hood of all instances of a particular map are full is highly highly unlikely.

I would have given you 50 recs for that post if I could.

I’ve been saying the same thing for ages. Server-vs-server-vs-server is a horribly stupid mechanism for a PvP environment like WvW, and here’s the hardest part to understand … there is absolutely no reason for it. Almost nobody is hung up on server pride as the huge numbers of server hopping have proven, and if matches were instanced there’d be no reason for long queues. ANet does not own their own servers (they lease capacity from Akamai), so sever capacity could be a dynamic situation that correlated with real time player populations.

I am absolutely dumbfounded that ANet can’t suck it up and fix this.

Forzani.2584:

Cactus.2710:

Forzani.2584:

gwfanboy.2496:

SoLeciTO.3490:

If you all want to be objective you must provide numbers or examples to the table.

These are examples of how OP can be any class . . . the people here complaining about thieves has no objective points . . they are just angry because they still do not how to deal with thieves.

Warrio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiXhgsfoL6c

Mesmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54UCCEinT5o

Engi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zy5cANG4Hk

Guardian:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw6bMD5z6bM

Necro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfGdT896JZ8

Ranger:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCBjuXKbqQM

Also here is a link of a thread talking of wich profession is the most hard to play against.

Is funny how Sanduskel and Burnfall are basically the only ones again attacking the profession.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Strongest-1-vs-1-class

I invite you to use the time you expend here in the forums learning the mechanics and improve your game play instead.

Sorry for my bad english i try my best.

That’s because the non thief pvpers who want some balanced pvp were ignored since launch so they ditched the game.

Have you noticed a significant decline in pvp skill level in spvp and wvw recently? Yea..

That’s what happens when you ignore your customers’ valid complaints. Favor a minority of people who are after the next fotm and you lose the majority. Brilliant tactic.

100% true. The WvW chat channel is always filled with people complaining about Thieves. No other class produces the amount of frustration and anger to the player base. Most bit the bullet thinking that Anet would make some much needed adjustments. They haven’t, so I agree it has forced people out of WvW …or into zerg blobs only.

The majority of those chat comments (as well as half the comments on these forums) are about how annoying thieves are because they can’t be seen and they can be so evasive, not because they got killed by one. Burst thieves are indeed powerful 1v1, but thieves in general pretty much suck in a group battle as countless posts here have also pointed out. *Situational disparity exists in almost every game … it’s what makes you actually have to think. Try it.

Annoying does not equal overpowered or broken. Read the frigging GW2 thief class description and educate yourself*

You can try and justify it and make excuses. It’s really very simple. People play to have fun. If they have fun, they continue to play. If they don’t have fun, they leave….and what many don’t want to accept. We don’t all lose every fight to thieves. There are 3 common outcomes. 1. Thief wins. 2. Opponent is winning but thief stealths and runs away. 3. Thief makes a mistake and opponent actually wins.

All 3 scenarios are not fun for the non thief. Even after beating a thief I am ready to log off in frustration. It’s not fun.

Maybe you educate yourself and see what every game in existence does when their customer base isn’t having fun. They try and fix it.

LOL. Yeah … because I have so much fun being chain stunned and AoE’d to death in any large fight that I don’t run away from. As I said, every decent game, including this one with all its many warts, involves situational disparity and situational recognition. You may suck against a thief 1v1 but you’ll almost be certain to share his loot bag in a group. There are many, many reasons why I will probably abandon GW2 once a decent alternative comes along, but the fact that I can eat some other class’ lunch in certain situations while that same person/class can eat mine in a different situation is not one of them.

As for the WvW devs fixing anything in this game, good luck with that.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Currently, each infusion carries +5 stats. I predict:

• April: raised to +7 stats.
• July: raised to +10 stats.
• October: raised to +15 stats.
• December: raised to +22 stats.

Each stat increase will be an epic grind.

Oh, by the way, Ascended gear is the only gear that has infusion slots. Anet loves its vertical grind — and will make you love it too!

But … but … but … we have a Horizontal vs Vertical Progression CDI running, right? The one where 99% of the player responses want horizontal progression instead of vertical progression. Surely ANet will take heed and do something about it, right?

Oh wait ….

Just curious … which player complaints about WvW HAVEN’T been mostly ignored? How many times have you actually seen a WvW dev even acknowledge the complaints?

inb4 lordkrall, Vena, etc …. yeah, I know, the devs have been too busy the last year and a half fixing stuff and working on new stuff to spend time responding, right? lol …

Forzani.2584:

gwfanboy.2496:

SoLeciTO.3490:

If you all want to be objective you must provide numbers or examples to the table.

These are examples of how OP can be any class . . . the people here complaining about thieves has no objective points . . they are just angry because they still do not how to deal with thieves.

Warrio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiXhgsfoL6c

Mesmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54UCCEinT5o

Engi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zy5cANG4Hk

Guardian:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw6bMD5z6bM

Necro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfGdT896JZ8

Ranger:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCBjuXKbqQM

Also here is a link of a thread talking of wich profession is the most hard to play against.

Is funny how Sanduskel and Burnfall are basically the only ones again attacking the profession.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Strongest-1-vs-1-class

I invite you to use the time you expend here in the forums learning the mechanics and improve your game play instead.

Sorry for my bad english i try my best.

That’s because the non thief pvpers who want some balanced pvp were ignored since launch so they ditched the game.

Have you noticed a significant decline in pvp skill level in spvp and wvw recently? Yea..

That’s what happens when you ignore your customers’ valid complaints. Favor a minority of people who are after the next fotm and you lose the majority. Brilliant tactic.

100% true. The WvW chat channel is always filled with people complaining about Thieves. No other class produces the amount of frustration and anger to the player base. Most bit the bullet thinking that Anet would make some much needed adjustments. They haven’t, so I agree it has forced people out of WvW …or into zerg blobs only.

The majority of those chat comments (as well as half the comments on these forums) are about how annoying thieves are because they can’t be seen and they can be so evasive, not because they got killed by one. Burst thieves are indeed powerful 1v1, but thieves in general pretty much suck in a group battle as countless posts here have also pointed out. Situational disparity exists in almost every game … it’s what makes you actually have to think. Try it.

Annoying does not equal overpowered or broken. Read the frigging GW2 thief class description and educate yourself.

Kontrolle.3514:

Everyone with a little common sense knows that thiefs are ridicoulus broken in WvW.
perma-Stealth, highest mobility, blindspam, cond remove and the crazy damage that forces almost all classes except thiefs to stack toughness.

Got backstabbed for 12k today on my 3.4K Armor…
4 RL buddys stopped playing GW2 because of this madness.

Grow a pair. You should check out any of the several WvW threads here where players list the most useful classes to play. Except for roaming/scouting, thief almost always falls way down toward the bottom of the list.

I don’t play a burst thief (and I use stealth defensively) and yet in any large skirmish I am subject to being chain stunned and AoE’d into oblivion … my only recourse being to blind, stealth, and skulk away having done nothing much useful for the group. If I optimize for evasiveness I suck in other ways. No thief gets all those things you mention without cooldowns and without sacrificing a whole lot else.

There is a great deal of difference between the optimum specs for 1v1 and large group battles. Just because the thief class is oriented more toward one than the other (read the kitten official class descriptions if you haven’t yet figured out which) doesn’t mean that thief overall is out of line with anything other than your own understanding.

Svarty.8019:

But seriously, why should I have to have cat-like reflexes just to survive three hits?

LOL. Yeah … let’s slow down the game so that reaction time doesn’t play any part in it.

People on these forums get weirder and weirder every day ….

Junkpile.7439:

Only way to make this popular is share these overflows between every server or all people who wanna play there need to move in same tier so there is enough players in maps. I don’t really have any motivation play PPT kitten so this map is kind of www last chance for me.

It is unfathomable to me that ANet is not making EOTM instances available to all servers at the same time. It would be the simplest way to demonstrate whether or not players would prefer Red/Green/Blue matchups for the other maps instead of the current server-based system, and in addition restricting it to the current matchup is going to majorly kitten off players on low pop servers who want to try EOTM but cannot.

It’s incredible how the WvW devs keep proving how out of touch they are with their own game.

TheTitan.4931:

TheTitan.4931:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Sounds like we want devs to pick topics based on a short vote during the CDI process evolution phase.

I vote at this time that we discuss Commander functionality next as it also impacts PVE. This topic however would be discussed in the WvW forums.

Regarding your question Cactus i will ask DC to do a summary of valuable points garnered from the discussion. He is however away for the holiday so we should be patient in that regard in terms of a reply.

Chris

It has now been a week. If the DC is still on holiday, why start a new CDI then? If he is super busy, fine. Just letting you know, I and quite a few others, are awaiting this response to the first CDI as we have yet found any response of what has a feint possibility of being something that maybe can be done in some future.

If this is attempted in any way to be swept under the rug, count me out of the forum and the game.

I will await more patiently, just remember we do not have a patience forever.

It is now a month later, and I can not find this quote “I will ask DC to do a summary of valuable points garnered from the discussion.” to have been actually made anywhere on the forum.

To me, this means you wanted this swept under the rug and not see the light of day again.

Count me as a player out of this game for the most foreseeable time of the future if this is how you treat your loyal users.

Population imbalance was by far the number one requested topic for “collaborative development”, but Devon had zero interest in it and quite obviously nothing will ever come from it. We didn’t even get the summary we were promised.

For that matter, all we can possibly expect to get from the Commander CDI is maybe some different colors for the commander tags.

This entire initiative, at least for WvW, has been some kind of cynical attempt at temporary appeasement and I can’t imagine that it won’t ultimately backfire on ANet.

Draygo.9473:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Draygo.9473:

Metrics are more reliable than player feedback.

Only if those metrics are interpreted correctly.

^Give this man a cookie.

Metrics are almost always interpreted incorrectly.

So is player feedback.

Actually, in the case of WvW, the bulk of the evidence would suggest that both are simply ignored.

Are you guys incapable of understanding that as long as ANet creates WvW matches by server that it is impossible … IMPOSSIBLE … to have both even matches and fresh matches? We get one or the other (more or less), and toggling back and forth complaining about one or the other serves no useful purpose. The only way to fix any of this is to abandon the server-vs-server-vs-server model, and ANet has already stated that they don’t plan to do that. I think that’s a horrible decision on their part, but that’s what we’ve got … at least until some other game comes along that knows what it’s doing.

lordkrall.7241:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

True, but Anet has shown time and time again why this attitude is the way to go. They ignore players and do what THEY want…Even if players dont want it.

They do what they think is best for the game. And you have to keep in mind that they have WAY more information about what is best for the game than anyone on these forums does.
The people using the forums are after all a minority of the actual player-base and it is very likely that they are gathering information from other sources than the forums alone.

I’m pretty certain that ANet doesn’t have way more information about what is best for the game from the PLAYER perspective. No doubt that they have lots of information from other sources, but just about every major complaint aired in these forums shows up one way or another in what happens in terms of in-game activity. You don’t ever need to read these forums to figure that out.

The fact is, and understandably so, ANet does what they think represents the best intersection of their interests and that of the players. That has not often resulted in improvements to the game from the user side, and again … you don’t need to read these forums to recognize that. ANet clearly has some resource issues (and definitely some recognition and communication issues) that affect what they decide to do, but the reality is that even customers who don’t complain will look elsewhere when the opportunity is available. Sometime during 2014 we will find out to what extent ANet suffers from the decisions they’ve made and not made.

lordkrall.7241:

We have however put ourselves in the situation where they don’t communicate much (and seriously, it is Christmas time, most people don’t even work so don’t expect an answer) due to the “community” ripping their head off if something doesn’t work exactly like said “community” thought it would or if something gets delayed.

Your argument would carry more weight if there were actually a significant number of positive things addressed/fixed/discussed/acknowledged added to WvW over the past year. Aside from the issue of lag/culling (kudos to ANet for that at least) there haven’t been. Frustration breeds rancor … and frustration with silence in the face of key problems breeds the most rancor of all.

Besides, as many of us have stated several times, it’s the members of the community who want to “rip their heads off” that care enough to express their displeasure … the others just leave. If you owned stock in ANet, which of the two would you prefer?

Natronix.9827:

Anet a simple answer would be greeeat

LOL. How many times have we all said that over the past year ….

Jaxs.5830:

Is EoTM still planned to be released as restricted to your current matchup?

Yes …. which I think is a hugely flawed decision on the part of ANet. Unless, of course, they realize that making EOTM matches open to all regional servers would probably make it more popular by far than anything else in WvW and turn even EB into a wasteland.

Shotty.1902:

Please fix to where we can whisper, and invite people to a party from guild roster in wvw.

for real

Thanks

You’re assuming that there is someone at ANet that gives a rat’s kitten about WvW. Trust us … there isn’t. Back before launch devs obviously existed who cared about WvW (that can be seen from the initial promise of it), but since then the WvW portion of the game has been handed off to fewer and fewer devs who mostly likely screwed up to land there. At this point we pretty much know that there is one team leader for WvW (who appears to be the least responsive of anyone on the payroll) plus two other devs who occasionally get pulled aside for other tasks. You do the math on how far that will address anything.