Guild Wars 2

While DE is nice, and if I had a choice, I’d chose DE..

I think that IP would make more sense as a default ability. I think the Mesmer should count as a shatter by default.

However, seeing as how they made Aquatic Benevolence (Grandmaster XIII for Eles) into a minor, I could see that easily happening to DE.

That would be glorious. I think we could pull that off, actually.

Happy to help bro!

Ha we in there! Lets get some actual PRACTICE in before the matches this year. =P

Its OMFG, may as well shoot for the all mes team first (or.. 4 Mes plus 1 may work better)

The hydro/doom combo works well in power builds. Poison cuts enemy heal effectiveness, making it harder for them to recover from a shatter burst, chill makes their skills take longer to recharge and cuts their movement speed, good for defensive positioning.

I think you’re looking at the idea of doing damage too straightforward,and with Mes things are rarely simple. IP makes you count as a clone, which makes single-clone shatters hit much harder. Also it allows you to land these shatters more frequently (dodgeroll past opponent, Mind Wrack) and net more overall damage for each shatter. You’ll also find it increases your survivability noticeably by extending the duration of your distortions, and allows you to distort without needing a clone.

Now consider Maimed. You get more damage from shatters, but it is easily-cleansed without other cover condis and doesn’t do much damage with no investment in condition damage. The extra 2k+ damage you get from the extra shatter on IP is upfront and immediate compared to the slow DoT of an unspecced torment. IP is much more reliable and flexible for a power shatter build, which is why all high-level Mesmer run it.

Give it a try, you’ll see for yourself.

It was around 8pm. (ended up being 9 because with my luck I’d be late to my own funeral)

But it is something we’ll be doing every weekend. Speaking of which, since I was entirely on NA last weekend, I’ma be mostly on the EU side this upcoming weekend.

We’re gonna have to squeeze this into the guild message too. Btw when Kentigem isn’t on I can hop over to the EU side to coordinate things.

Hey dude,

While your reasoning is sound: Maim the Disillusioned (MtD) for more damage on shatters via torment, you have to really consider what you’re gaining from Illusionary Persona (IP)

IP is going to be more valuable not just because it increases your damage and allows you to shatter more often, but because of the defensive benefits of having longer and instant Distortions [F4] and Dazes [F3]. A lot of your shattering will end up being with only 1 or 2 clones, so IP really helps you get that damage off even in situations where you can’t produce clones as fast as you’d like .

For staff, I’ve always been a fan of the Hydromancy/Doom sigil combo. Swapping to staff creates an instant AoE chill and hits the target with poison while allowing you to phase retreat away. On my offset (I prefer Sword/Focus but I run a lockdown build) I usually run Fire/Energy.

What utilities do you use? If you have no condi removal you may want to consider Lyssa Runes. Other strong alternatives are Hoelbrak, Strength, and I’ve been seeing this hype train driving around about Vampirism runes… but I’m not too sure why its supposed to be so good.

That was a fun video to watch. I haven’t heard that song in forever!

And dat Blink at 3:10 makes me shake my head in shame. I still can’t pull that off reliably.

Sounds good to me. I wouldn’t mind rocking out in an All-Mesmer team.

… But then again I wouldn’t mind being on a mixed team.

So sign me up for both! .. Or Either… Or however this works. =P

I don’t, and haven’t ever played as a turret engi, but both of these changes together seems a bit much.

If its one or the other, I think I’d rather the crit. conditions like bleed on a turret make about as much sense as blinding a Dredge.

What time is good for the EU side?

Good news and bad news.

Bad news: Maaay not be able to make Saturday depending on schedule

Good news: Got a EU account now! o_O Thanks to good friends and an incredibly cheap GW2 sale

I … Can’t bring myself to play any other class for any amount of time.

I made the mistake of starting with Mesmer, cuz teleports illusions and psychic magic is awesome to me… Now every other class can’t hold my attention in PvP, or make me think “Ugh wish I was on my Mes.” =[

So yeah, Mesmer is lacking statistically and if you’re a math person you’ll start to feel lackluster when compared to other classes. But in terms of fun factor? In PvP? Mes is seriously hard to beat.

Oh its cool, I don’t have a car!

=P Though I have seen this little schism forming in the community over viability and skillful play and whatnot, what’s up with that?

So far from what I’ve seen its been Wile, BlackDevil, and friends vs you, Messiah, and MailMail over stuff like MtDs viability and the opponents y’all face.

Seems a bit odd, considering different tiers of play and such, though y’all have gotten me curious about giving Maimed another shot to see which argument is more accurate.

Who has a new computer? THIZZ GUY!

After a bit of a hiatus I shall be back on GW this weekend, and as always I’ve got my sights set on PvP. Just giving a heads up that I’ll be sending out mass w/ for some duels and some team matches around 8pm EST saturday and/or sunday.

Also, Sunday, lets make something happen. Dungeons anyone?

UPDATE: This will now be an event that we’ll go for every Saturday and/or Sunday.

OTHER UPDATE: Since I spent the majority of my time on NA last weekend, this weekend I shall be getting smacked up in EU. =P

Guys guys, I figured out the riddle!

It’s simple math; class X is Revenant. Nerfs plz!

Drakortha.6974:

I play the same game as you and I have my own experience with it, I’m allowed an opinion without it being called nonsense. It makes a lot of sense to me.. after all I’m sure there’s some out there who agree with me. Some people in my guild do, one of them is a Mesmer!

I agree. But look at the topic of your title and how angry your original post seems. From the perspective of a veteran player, this looks like mindless and stubborn whining.

The people saying L2P aren’t trying to just be jerks, what they’re saying is that what you’re experiencing is actually rather common at first but becomes a non-issue as you improve. The fastest way to do that is to change your perspective on the class:

Stealth is an advantage of the class, we’re not “abusing” it and we’re not being “cheap.” We have one/two forms of stealth in a 30 second period and each only has a 3 second time. Usually within that time we’ll dance around behind you. It shouldn’t take you more than a moment to retarget the real Mesmer.

If you’re seriously not trying to be a troll, then the best thing you can do to deal with Mesmer is to change your perspective on them. We’re not fun to fight when you don’t understand us, but once you do things become a lot more level.

Just be more open-minded in the future, man.

Drakortha.6974:

conquest point zerging is bad enough without mesmers thrown into the mix. It’s simply way too much on the screen for most players to keep up with including myself and it renders the entire fight useless. i’ve got to the point of just throwing my arms up when this starts happening. how can i sustain damage on a single target that keeps moving, teleporting, going invisible, creating clones, and worst of all untargeting themselves…

longbow – single target damage. POINTLESS
shortbow – single target damage. POINTLESS
Axe – bounces multiple targets, kitten damage. POINTLESS
Greatsword – single target damage, slow. POINTLESS
Sword – single target damage. target dodges, goes invisible. POINTLESS
Entangle – Thief and Mesmers completely immune to my control. POINTLESS
Pet. POINTLESS

Are you honestly going to post all this in your OP and then claim…

Drakortha.6974:

Not a L2P issue.. or an OP issue. I know how to fight and beat a mesmer.. my complaint is they are a pain in the bum to fight.. especially in group fights.. you can’t argue with that

Fun fact: Mesmers are actually much less effective in group fights than in 1v1s.

… and most Mesmer can only stealth maybe twice every 30 secs.

Drakortha.6974:

Can’t say the same with mesmer, as they all pick the same strategy and every fight with them feels the same

… Dude.

If this isn’t one of the most narrow-minded perspectives…

I’m about to go down, I place a portal to escape. I go down anyways.

Allies come to rezz me.. Get ported to mid.

/sigh Atleast they recapped it.

Well if each clone becomes sentient and self-aware.. And we’re pulling them from a unique dimension..

Then doesn’t that mean Mesmer has access to an infinite amount of dimensions? And if each clone is suddenly becoming self-aware, then were they originally nothing but fragments of ether that our mesmery minds turned into a reflection of ourself?

Then if each mesmer has access to their own source of infinite dimensions… What happens when you make a clone of someone ELSE? (reflected scepter auto)

So each time we’re using our abilities we’re masochistically torturing ourselves? Are we imprisoning parts of who we are? Don’t we always shut out parts of ourselves every day in order to make room for new things to enter?

If these sentient clones are living for eternity.. Are they really creatures greater than ourselves? If their minds are an exact copy of ours.. Would THEY begin to make clones and shatter them? Could a clone in its own dimension shatter itself? What happens to Phantasms? Would the clone REALLY be lonely, or merely expectant of this result and content in perpetual mundanity?

Oh lawd. I’ll be here all day. /ouroboros

You know, technically I almost always do that in anticipation of an attack. An 80%ish success rate has spoiled me into sloppiness. xD

Chaos: “He’s gonna spam something…. Now!” /mantra

Warlord: “He’s gonna expect me to spam something…. Now!” /dance

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FGuildwars2%2Fcomments%2F3062j3%2Fbleed_stacks_over_25_in_beta%2F

Totally swiped this from the Necro forum. And totally hope this is PvE only. X.x

+1

Going in the guiiide

Hey dude! Hopefully I can help shed some light on dealing with lockdown Mesmer.

To start, there’s a difference between a lockdown mesmer -which refers to the general playstyle- and an interrupt Mesmer, which refers to a specific build revolving around a specific trait: Chaotic Interruption (Chaos XI) which immobilizes you everytime you’re interrupted.

I’d explain how the style works, but you can find all of that information here.

So in the build you likely encountered, here’s what you need to know about the Mesmer.

• Every Mesmer interrupt will apply: 2k+ damage / 3x Vuln (8x if Daze) / 2s Immobilize / Cripple, Chill, or Blind / 5x Might / Random boon / Ultimate satisfaction

• Every Mesmer weapon (except torch) can interrupt you. Focus, GS, and Staff are favorites.

• Very likely using a power build.

• Has up to 5 different interrupt sources. Two of these 5 will be 1200r and instant (and in a pitiful-but-useful AoE)

MESMER PERSPECTIVE

Necros are a lockdown Mesmer’s easiest opponent by far. Death Shroud is very interruptable, as is Axe and Dagger, many utilities (including heals) and Staff Auto. You must keep this in mind: on fair ground this fight is already in the Mesmer’s favor. Any sort of Weakness you can apply will go a long way into stuffing the damage, but it’s very likely the Mesmer will be trying hard to interrupt just about everything you do.

A good lockdown Mesmer will wait for you to attack first, baiting you out with some Phantasm summons and maybe some autos to try and force you to attack. Remember that only 2 interrupts are instant which means all of the other interrupts you’ll likely be able to see coming and avoid. You guys do have a range advantage on us, and staying beyond ~800r forces us to use our Mantra interrupts (the instant ones, can see the mantra ready in our bar). Once those two mantras are gone, the fight becomes a bit more fair.

We don’t do well in prolonged battles, once our mantras are blown things become a pretty hectic struggle to lock&burst as fast as we can. I don’t exactly know how DS management works, but some of the better Necros I faced usually waited until after the mantra was blown (or until they were around 60% health) before popping a full deathshroud, which soaks up our other interrupts. Our instant mantra interrupt goes on a 36s CD when blown which gives you about a half minute of opportunity to .. do your necro-deathy things.

THE NECRO ADVANTAGE
Conditions screw us pretty badly, like most Mesmer, but Weakness and Blind in particular are brutal. Lockdown Mesmer MUST consistently land interrupts about every 10-15 seconds to win against tougher opponents. We must use all our shatters, both our phantasms, and even condition damage in addition to interrupts to pressure an opponent down. This all means that we’re very powerful in the beginning of a fight and really start dwindle as it goes on, since we can’t rely on autoattacks or low-cooldown abilities.

It’s a fight that’s definitely in the Mesmer’s favor, and may feel impossible at first, but remember that none of our daze/stuns do any damage without interrupting. Don’t try to spam skills inbetween getting dazed, that’s what we want. Be patient and watch us, react instead of act, and the dance very will could be yours to win.

Wile.5024:

yeah I’m curious about the whole build… traits do look promising. OP’s build seemed too tanky to my liking.

Use pack runes, swap out staff for Gs, swap out iDefender and yer good to go!

Woo support builds ftw!

Oh man. This is one of like..,3 really good builds I’d recommend for people who wanna play support, are trying to learn the class, or just wanna try something different.

I’d definitely consider this a support build, and a really fun one at that since you have loads of team utility at the cost of some damage and likely are far more devastating with a companion then on your own. There’s quite a bit of trait flexibility in inspiration as well, and I’m reminded of why I love that traitline.

I’m able to play again in a few weeks, this is the build I’m forward to trying out the most, will be able to give more feedback then, but have you tried Pack Runes?

Courtyard was introduced initially to test how Team Deathmatch can work in the future of GW2. It was advertised as a potential “first of many” death match maps to help add variety to the PvP format.

How did that go?

Some people like it, others hate it. Many have not come up with a build or strategy for it and it isn’t even often spoken about besides with general disdain. Many PUG courtyard matches end up in a landslide for one team or another and in general it seems the consensus for most people is a “Ugh, who picked this? Lets just get this over with…”

Should Anet work more on death match maps? Perhaps convert some existing maps into a death match form? Is Conquest (and stronghold) all that lies in our future? What say you? What would you prefer?

Fay.2735:

However, once it’s released it’ll be the theorycrafters time to shine as I will be compiling all the new builds that come out and all the old builds will be put to rest unless the build creators update their builds/topics appropriately in a timely fashion, in which case they will be re-added.

Hype intensifies

maha.7902:

no jerem or sanderinoa for mesmer is this even a serious list

This guy! Hasn’t posted here in months, returns to sass me. UPDATED mostly

Celestial staff ele all day errday.

Aquatic benevolence (out going heals are 25% more effective) can be really good if you build with it properly, and all the natural support/control from eles staff just rocks

/snicker

I apologize for my insolence. =P UPDATED

(And Ry I know you do gvg too but… I paid a lot for these /crickets. =[ )

skcamow.3527:

@Chaos, just a suggestion – might be a good idea to compile the clone generation ideas from this thread and the one I linked above and place them in the OP for a concise list.

I will when I get a chance @ a CPU.

Zarathustra.1458:

To be honest, I would like to see an overall reduction in mesmer cooldowns. I feel that the issue with clone production could be handled by giving the class a general 20% cooldown reduction across the board. From there with he stacking of other skills, it would become considerably easier to generate clones. Combine this with an alteration to scepter so that it spawns its clone directly beside you, and speed up the chain by 20% and we would be in a position where we should be able to without D E create a single clone every 3s. This when combined with something like Mirror Images now having a 27s cooldown rather than 36 with IC would make the entire class considerably more dynamic, and enable us to ignore entirely DE.

That’s an interesting idea, but I’m not sure if it’d work. What makes DE so good is the ability to spawn a clone at your own position instantly. Even with lowered cooldowns we’d be limited to having only this altered scepter spawn clones next to us, and only when we have time to use auto 3 inbetween our other skills. Even then we’d have no clone production when our weapon skills do go on cooldown, which makes us less effective in anything bigger than 1v1.

Moving DE to adept (which would open up tons of build diversity, but the devs may not be too open to that cuz “too strong”) or introducing more clone-generating traits would open up a lot more trait variety.

Advent.6193:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

AnniMira.2506:

Hehe, when the shield is stoved, it stops thief’s backstabs!

Ha! That would be interesting.

Take 50% less damage from attacks to the back when shield is stowed

Put some work on that stow-weapon button!

Unfortunately, with (many of-) this game’s shield skins …

Lose 90% fashion sense while shield is equipped.
Gain +100% clipping while shield is stowed

The room was quiet. I lol’d.

Now I wither under all the staring.

Edit: Uh Zara.. Didn’t we have an entire conversation on the first page? O.o did some mod ninja-delete it?

Other Edit: Wait, nope. Wrong thread, I’m just a moron, carry on.

My heart aches whenever I think about Disruptors Sustainment.. Why couldn’t it have been a 1.5k heal per interrupt (1s ICD) instead?

Otherwise, nah. They have to keep working on the ladder in time for HoT. I don’t expect any real balance changes till then.

Cyyrix I understand your POV completely, though I disagree.

Making DE into an adept is a great idea that would open up so much diversity, but that doesn’t mean we should be throwing away the possibility of more trait reworks. I think we should explore all options and possibilities. Look at…

Confounding Suggestions
Imbued Diversion
Chaotic/Bountiful/Furious Interruption
Prismatic Understanding
Menders Purity
Mirror of Anguish

All of these traits received a buff or rework in some way to boost their functionality. Skills like Bountiful, PU, Chaotic, Confounding, and Imbued even got secondary effects. Adding additional effects to lackluster traits is a possibility, so I’m asking the devs to give that treatment to more traits, but with clone-production in mind. None of our new grandmasters offered anything to help us create more illusions so I don’t think the devs even realize that this is the main problem.

Traits like “chaos storm on rezz” could easily be “create a clone when you grant chaos storm”

or “heal x health per clone shattered” into “create two clones when you use your healing skill” (MoRecovery anyone?)

However I will be the first to admit that dropping DE down to adept would be a huge, quick, and efficient step in opening our build diversity. In fact, I think the more threads that pop up with that suggestion the more the devs will seriously consider it.

To the argument of “this will never happen” I do understand that is a long shot, but we don’t need to add entirely new traits so much as remove/rework existing traits. Each line has some frivolous replaceable trait that could be scrapped to push the Mesmer into a better direction.

And if the traits seem gimmicky or not too great individually, that is part of the point. Were not looking to replace DE so much as to add more options and even multiple options of clone production. Being able to grab two or three of these traits in a build could eliminate the REQUIREMENT of taking DE.

Also contrary to popular beliefs the devs DO sometimes at some point read these forums, and us having a discussion on these types of things very well could inspire the same type of convo in the dev offices. If they can’t pinpoint what’s wrong with Mesmer then crying for random buffs isn’t as helpful as a focused discussion on what’s holding us back and how to get around it. This isn’t a wish list so much as an attempt -vague as it may be- at opening up our possibilities.

Remember, more specializations are on the way, and I don’t believe in sitting back complaining that everything in the future is gonna suck.

AnniMira.2506:

Hehe, when the shield is stoved, it stops thief’s backstabs!

Ha! That would be interesting.

Take 50% less damage from attacks to the back when shield is stowed

Put some work on that stow-weapon button!

After reading through “What if DE (Deceptive Evasion: Dueling X) was built in?” I was reminded of a theory I had a while ago but sorta forgotten..

I do think the biggest thing holding us back is our over-reliance on Deceptive Evasion, but why is that exactly? What does DE do for us that makes it so valuable that nearly every build is incomplete?

It creates clones reliably of course!

DE is our hands-down best clone production tool because of how it easily and instantly creates a clone at the Mesmer’s position. IMO the biggest thing hampering our build diversity right now is the fact that we have so few ways outside of DE to keep a constant stream of clone production. Clones are necessary for our damage, our class mechanic, for our healing, and for just about everything involving Mesmer, yet outside of DE and a few weapon skills we have a heavy lack of ability to create clones. In order to have a reliable form of clone production it needs to:

- Be instant and not heavily tied to a cooldown
- Be reliable and not sundered by RNG
- Be accessible, preferably through traits/weapons rather than Utility.

I think our traits should compensate for this. Especially with a new traitline being introduced. But what if we had a clone production trait in every traitline? Some ideas of mine:

• Domination: Wastrel’s Punishment creates a clone when you interrupt a foe.
• Chaos 50% chance to create a clone whenever a clone is destroyed
• Inspiration Creates a clone whenever you remove a condition.
• Illusions Creates 2 clones when you charge a mantra.
• Chronomancy Create a clone at your position when you block an attack.

The traitlines may not exactly fit, but you get my drift. What do ya’ll think?

Some of the nerfs to our weapon skills should definitely be reverted, otherwise I think Mesmer really could stand out if Anet wasn’t so afraid of us.

We have excellent boon acquisition, removal, sharing, and plenty of control abilities. We have everything necessary for a strong support/control role except that nearly everything is just sliiightly too underwhelming to be competitive.

We have a great fun burst archtype in shatter, and I think that should be preserved, but I don’t think Mesmer was ever meant to be a super high damage class. Control, flexibility and utility seem to be more our thing.. We just can’t exactly do our thing with Anet giving these teaspoon buffs.

Granted, when I say I don’t think we should be buffed, I mean that everything that works atm such kittenters should stay the same, but Anet really needs to consider a defining role for us and support it, rather than fear it.

Excellent boon control/removal. Great hard CC. Great soft CC..

What’s lacking?

Terrible clone production. -_-

Anndd updated again!

Updated! 3/20/15

Hey Chaos! I saw in one of the forum threads that you’re computer is having issues, sorry to hear that, I hope it can be fixed soon.
I was wondering if there was any where on the mesmer forum that had a list of people that specialized In certain aspects of mesmer play? For example I know if I wanted to know anything about the ins and outs of lockdown you or Warlord would be the go to people to ask. But what about shatter? Or the multiple variations of condi? I was just wondering if there was something like it for people like myself that wants to go to individuals and learn more about a certain type play style.

Why didn’t we think to do this sooner? o_O

Do me a favor and take a good long look at all your utilities, and all your traits. Ask yourself what drew you to Mesmer in the first place? Don’t you want to try out everything the class has to offer? How many builds do you normally play on average? One? Two? Take the time out to explore, to try something new and to discover all this class has to offer. Leave viability for speedruns, tournaments, and any time you feel like being hardcore. In the mean time… try something new!

SHATTER

Jurica.1742 / Lord Jurica
Supcutie / Supcutie the Red
jportell.2197 / Johnny The Gray
Coulter
Zerothousand.3089
Terrorsquad.2349 / Cute Denial
Warlord of Chaos.7845 / Rylock Dreadstone
Liam McColgan.7689
Shintei.9061
shimmerless.4560 / blissless
Slininstien.7546

PHANTASM

Jackums.3496
MandJ.8965 / Momekas

LOCKDOWN

Chaos Archangel.5071 / Aeoldyn
Warlord of Chaos / Rylock Dreadstone
Flufferz.8907

PU

IcyIcyIcy
Pyroathiest

MAIMED (Condi) SHATTER

MailMail.6534 – Cho
Dondagora
twisted fate.7251
messiah.1908

MANTRA

Fay.2735/ Fay

SIGNETS

alanis.6094

WVW (ROAMING)

Nehvie
Xiao
Iavra.8510
Trooper
Warlord of Chaos.7845 / Rylock Dreadstone

WVW (GUILD VS GUILD)

Warlord of Chaos.7845 / Rylock Dreadstone
Me Games Ma.8426

DUNGEONS

Xyonon.3987 / Madame Le Blanc
Frifox
Jerem
Sanderinoa
maha.7902 / Serah Mahariel

FRACTALS OF THE MISTS

Xyonon.3987 / Madame Le Blanc

PVE OPEN WORLD

Calliope.8675 / Vinesta

GENERAL MESMER STUFF

Frifox
Pyroathiest / Pyros Everywhere
Ross Biddle.2367 / Buton
Xyonon.3987 / Madame Le Blanc
Daniel Handler.4816 / Kentigem
skcamow.3527 / Kortham Raysplitter

I actually haven’t heard of these requests to buff shatter mesmer. The way the OP puts it you’d think its all over the place.

I’ve heard far more requests for lockdown buffs, and general bug/trait fixes than anything.

All I can think of is how delicious 6/x/6/0/0 – CS/CI would be…

Or even 6/2/0/0/6 (which is actually quite good and really fun, despite all the effort it takes)

Tourney viable for sure. =[

Necro is all close to death.. Does crazy damage. Seems legit. =P

And uh, not for nothing but Mesmers downstate (Thief phantasm) definitely take people out (not like THAT, of course)

@Gates Assassin: The build you mentioned actually works pretty well, but it doesn’t address Mesmers main issues:

• Lack of definable role
• Sub-par vs Celestial specs.

Trading boonstrip for reflects/survivability is nice, but as it stands boonstrip is more valuable, especially with the stab changes. What utilities did ya grab?

Rome.7124:

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s really, really hard :/

Lost a lot of my fav, very important blink locations in WvW.

there’s should be no more doubts about ANet’s disdain for Mesmer class.

All those cheerleaders about how HOT expansion will make Mesmers better again need to stop drinking the kool aid.

I.. I think I just got called a cheerleader. AND a cultist.

In all seriousness.. The port nerf sounds like it sucks tho. My computer is crashed so I can’t play till mid April anyways. =[