Guild Wars 2

The Not so Evil Overlord.6305:

Starting from the bottom.

I was mostly posting the build as an example of breaking away from meta. And also because one person earlier made a comment about wanting to see some builds, due to metabattles not matching his playstyle.

It is true, I do play hotjoin. Almost exclusively. So, I’m not going up against experts. (I’ll also make no claim to being an expert)

Condi builds utterly destroy me. Basically every time. Burn guards, since they just toss out one condi, I can deal with. Necros and engis though? Not so much.
Heavy ranged pressure… That’s where the immob, and well timed dodging comes in. Along with using the terrain as much as possible. The immob to keep him from maintain distance, the dodge to avoid the main damage skills.
Heavy CC, it’s mostly about knowing what times I need to pop my stun breaks.
Kiters, I’ve got enough cripple and immob to definitely hit them with at least one of them. They’re definitely not easy though.
Melee bursters… Those fights are definitely interesting, since, well, it’s melee burst on melee burst. Then it really comes down to a match of who can spot the burst, and dodge it the best.

The traits… I took Last Stand not only for a longer Frenzy, but also for having some, even if unreliable, form of stabo, in addition to making Defy Pain more effective. I also am not the greatest at thinking about using Cleansing Ire to clear my condis.
Axe mastery I took, mostly because of the way my spikes work out. It’s not that rare for Eviscerate to not be charged when I begin my spikes. Which means one good chain, at least, of my axe auto-attack isn’t helped at all. Whereas it is helped by all the ferocity I’m getting from having two axes equipped.
The longbow is taken to help deal with the pesky kiters, and to keep on pressuring people like Dragonhunters, until their traps have expired. I should, perhaps, reevaluate it however, since it’s something I’ve been using for a while. I might be taking it mostly out of habit. Perhaps sword/mace or something like that.

That was my reasoning though. I likely should test it out with those modifications however, and see if that’s more effective for me. Thanks for the comments.

There’s definitely a skill differential then, because if your opponents were able to mitigate as well as you’re describing you’re mitigating them, they wouldn’t find your immobs or bursts much of a problem. For example, Bolas are really easy to dodge.

But if it’s working and fun, that’s awesome.

If I may, make some suggestions:

1. Try using Berserker’s Power over Axe Mastery. AM doesn’t actually affect Eviscerate, and BP will give you much more damage and to both weapons as well.
2. Try using Cleansing Ire over Last Stand. This will do two things for you… your adren generation will be much better, and you’ll be shedding condis much better too. Longbow is the one weapon that allows you do this without needing to hit anything.
3. Consider using Brawlers Recovery over Destruction of the Empowered if you’re coming across lots of condis. If you aren’t, stick with DotE

Longbow can be quite good, especially with it’s big fire field (which can be shot behind you), LB3 which hits hard, can be shot behind you, and will give aoe might in your fire field, the aoe blind of lb 4, the often overlooked power of lb2 against grouped enemies at point blank, and the long cripple of lb5. But it shoots a bit slow for my liking.

You mentioned an interest in dropping the LB in favour of something melee. I’d recommend a full stance warrior using gs/a+sh, personally. It’ll allow you to retain the axe burst you like, but you’ll have way more damage, mobility, and survivability too.

If being non-meta is really important to you, try sword shield with your dual axes. Sword 2 will help you stick to targets once you lose the range of lb, and it’ll help you escape too. Sword 3 hits about as hard as Eviscerate on up to 3 targets, and you may enjoy the immob on Flurry (be sure to cancel it after the first hit so you can use the immob time to do something more damaging). Shield, especially when traited, is amazing.

Though it seems to have passed, quick notes on skill floors and ceiling:

Skill floor refers to the amount of skill needed to be somewhat useful with a specific class’ mechanics.

Skill ceiling refers to the amount of skill needed to fully exploit a specific class’ mechanics..

Warriors undoubtedly have a low skill ceiling, but that doesn’t mean warriors aren’t skilled players. Indeed, a low skill ceiling makes high player skill that much more important… things like positioning, baiting, conserving, etc. But this is also why warriors are virtually non-existent in top tier pvp, where player skill across classes is uniformly high. That, and how easily they’re countered.

I think warriors used to have a lower skill floor than most classes, and it might still in general (i.e. non-end game or dungeon) pve. But in wvw at least (and probably pvp), I think other classes have considerably lower skill floors.

@The Not so Evil Overlord
Yes, your build is highly confusing. I don’t see how you wouldn’t be positively wrecked by a condi bomb (presumably the second if you use the hs active), heavy ranged pressure, heavy cc, and both strong kiters and melee bursters.

The trait choices in the lines don’t even look optimal to me. for example, Last Stand over Cleansing Ire when you have one stance on your bar and a longbow equipped makes no sense to me. Same with Axe mastery over Berserker’s Power.

By any chance are you mostly playing hotjoin?

Don’t get me wrong though, I’m pro-fun 100% and completely support you playing whatever works for you. I’m just not clear how your build supports the claim that warriors are very viable in spvp.

Yaki.9563:

Amazing how many people stick their head in the sand and don’t think FGS is OP. It’s totally OP. It’s just that the rest of warrior sucks (apparently) so it’s ok that FGS is OP. That doesn’t make it not OP. Name another weapon specific trait in the game (not just warrior) that adds as much as a flat 10% damage, 20% cooldown, AND adds a ridiculously useful buff ability that synergizes amazingly well with another trait. Then put it in the perfect tier position so all the other strong traits are available as well. It’s not just better than any other weapon trait, it’s better than any other trait period.

You think it’s OP relative to the rest of the game, or OP relative to other warrior weapon traits?

TheSwede.9512:

Thanks for the kind words everyone! I’m by no means some sort of Master Warrior, but I feel I know enough to recognize some of the problems that the Warrior faces in competative gameplay.

Second Wind is particularily well received, and I kinda figured. I’m not quite certain making Cleansing Ire’s actual Cleansing portion into a minor is the right way to go about, but I wanted to present alternatives that wouldn’t pidgeon-hole Warriors into Defense and Discipline as much as its been in the past. Since both are skill-based (You need to actively hit a target in order to benefit from both) there’s still counter-play against each trait.

That’s also the reason I split up Fast Hands and threw portion of it into different Spec Lines, where the particular weapon in question comes to shine. Direct Damage Weapons in Strength, Condition Damage Weapons in Arms and CC-focused weapons in Discipline. I personally think Fast Hands is important, but also too powerful to be made entirely baseline. I feel the solution I’ve presented with Powerful Arms, Precise Arms and Brutal Arms works well as a middle ground between the two of the choices.

That was actually one of the areas in which I disagreed. I like how you provided multiple paths to a shorter weapon swap, but felt constraining each trait to specific weapons was unnecessary.

I get that some weapons will shine more with the trait in one line over another, but it’d be better to leave that up to the player to decide rather than forcing particular weapon sets down particular paths, imo. I’d recommend leaving the secondary effects of the traits alone, but removing the weapon specificity of them.

You’ve done a great job here for a first pass. There’s too much that’s right to quibble over what seems a little off, and it’d be great to see someone from Anet respond to it or pick up many of your ideas for a trait rework.

Very nice job, indeed.

Michael.4079:

I considered it, yes. But I picked Blademaster mainly because of recharge, so I can spam flaming fury as often as possible
I could try to using it though… see what it does.

Being a burst skill, Flaming Fury shouldn’t be affected by Blademaster at all. If it’s working now, then expect a bug fix down the road. If it isn’t working (just give it a test), then there’s no reason not to take Deep Strike.

Michael.4079:

That should be it http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAsfTnMdAlkitkCOeAElillA7IAEBmZKRhiXT4N3+bLuA-ThhAABws/QYK/AV9nB1HAwTAgNlgAA-e
But I mostly use Endure pain instead of dolyak. And yeah, I´m lot more squishier compared to when I was running mace/shield and LB.
I play only unranked, so that could also be the case…
Condi cleanse is pain in the back, but with this you can apply condis quite quickly, so you are not completely useless.

Gotcha. Yeah, I can see why condis would be tough for this build. Pew pew rangers and Diamond Skin eles should be an issue too. Watch out for Arcane Thievery and Plauge Signet too.

It’s probably a real beast for anyone that wants to contest a point against you though, unless they can mitigate your condis sufficiently.

Regarding your build, have you considered Depp Strike over Blademaster? Imo, your crit chance is high enough and +150 condi damage is better considering you have decent Fury uptime.

Michael.4079:

As I said, I dont use GS or hammer at all and mostly I play PvP, but sometimes I venture to WvW too. In WvW I usually fall prey to a group. But if I can catch one of those guys alone, I try to burst him down with my burns and it usually works. Getting away is harder part…

Are you doing hotjoin, unranked, or ranked arenas?

Also, can you post your builds? The reason I’m asking is I’d expect you to be vulnerable to bursty classes in a big way, and I’d expect the warrior’s limited condi diversity to cause issues against anyone who knows to stay out of your burn fields without immunity.

If you have stumbled across some truly competitive pvp warrior builds (i.e. that don’t just rely on you being much more skilled than your opponents), it’d be great to analyze that a bit. Sort of like when Shoutbow was discovered.

Lastly, I’d love to run through some duels with you if you’re up for it. It’d help me get a better handle on the mechanics of your build.

Michael.4079:

So, is it only me who doesn’t think that warrior is garbage?
Whenever I go into 1 on 1 fight I always think that my chances of winning are 50% or higher, depending on proffesion. And I must say, that it doesnt happen to me, that after fight I would think that someone is ridiculously OP . Only proffession that makes me angry is mesmer ‘cos of his stupid illusions. Other than that, I don’t have problems with playing my warrior.
Currently, I use condi build sword + torch/longbow and I can deal literally tons of damage with burns and bleeds. Before HoT I was using Mace + Shield/Longbow and usually tryed to keep my enemy locked in fire field, blocking their bursts and getting fire shield from combo.
Maybe try different builds or I don’t know what.

It’s likely you’re encountering a skill gap between you and your opponents. I also win higher than 50% of my fights (by a large margin), but most of that is in wvw where there are a lot of players with a lot less fight experience. Where are you getting most of your wins?

That isn’t to say warriors can’t win against skilled opponents on other classes, but you’re regularly at a build disadvantage unless your build just happens to be a good counter to theirs.

Imo, there has been excessive hand wringing over the current state of warriors. But there’s also little doubt in my mind that the traits and skills need a serious revision, especially in light of the new HoT stuff.

Yaki.9563:

Choppy.4183:

@Yaki
Have you not noticed the pages of threads dedicated to fixing the warrior, calling for buffs, or just complaining that it’s busted?

The OP dedicated this thread specifically to nerfing FG, and people are responding to it.

Short-sighted responses, imo. It’s better for the state of warriors to have this trait be nerfed so that other weapon options become relatively viable. If warrior is built 100% around a single trait (as most people here seem to be claiming), don’t you think that’s a pretty serious issue that needs to be addressed? You’d have be be deliberately argumentative to not agree that this trait not only adds more personal DPS but also group support than any other trait. Yet somehow it sits in a tier with no other decent choices making it not only vastly better than other weapon traits but with far less sacrifice to take.

Umm… most of us have responded to the broader issues on other threads. Nerfing FG doesn’t make the other weapons more viable, it makes gs as unviable as the rest.

You’re making the same mistakes others have been making. Our gs isn’t OP even with FG relative to the rest of the game, it’s just that our other weapons and traits (among other things) are weak.

Nerfing the gs makes the situation worse, not better. Axe builds or whatever don’t get more viable if gs is nerfed, it just makes gs a less viable (and less optimal) option.

I’ve never seen a prompt, neither as the target nor the person making the kill shot. Afaik, Berserker’s Power works just fine with it too.

You can always test this on the practice dummies in the Mists, if you want.

No idea what you mean by “did they kill the old killshot”. It doesn’t do the damage it used to, but I still get 8-12k depending on the target and the buffs/debuffs involved.

Gunflame, the Berserker’s version, can be used while moving, has a shorter cooldown, lower base damage, but explodes on impact for aoe damage.

Just the long animation, which includes the warrior kneeling.

@Yaki
Have you not noticed the pages of threads dedicated to fixing the warrior, calling for buffs, or just complaining that it’s busted?

The OP dedicated this thread specifically to nerfing FG, and people are responding to it.

@Thuggernaut
Why do that instead of leaving the might stacking where it is but opening it to all weapons, like the might and reflect from Shield Mastery on mace 2 and sword 5?

Moving the might to PS unnecessarily nerfs most wvw and pvp gs builds, with no obvious gain except making it so PS warriors don’t need to go into Strength. I’ve not once heard anyone say traiting Strength was a problem for PS warriors.

Arcade.8901:

Deniara Devious.3948:

snip

Hm, yeah great idea dude!!!!!

Warrior has A WEAPON SEMI WORKING. That’s just a way toooooo stronkkkkkkk. Need nurfs, nuff said.

See to much Wars GS/Hammer HULK SMASHhHHh.

Me sad, me wanna pew pew with Bow, me wanna lick Warhorn.

Didn’t Deniara just say the weapons (other than gs) should be buffed? I think you should reread the post.

If you want to go Vipers, you should drop the Smoldering Sigil you probably have on your bow for something else (Torment, Doom, Geomancy, whatevs) so you aren’t wasting a stat.

Whether the loss of a bit of condi damage and precision for the slightly higher power and bleed duration is worth it, I’m not sure. I’d be surprised if there was a huge difference especially if you expect condi clearing opponents, but I’ve not run any numbers.

This might be helpful:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Sinister-vs-Viper

EDIT: Or, if you want to keep your smoldering sigil, you could drop Balth runes (I assume) for Nightmare. You can still reach +100% burn and will get pretty close on the bleeds too. That being said, don’t forget the importance of maintaining a reasonably high crit chance to maximize KoF.

SenthRawr.7843:

So it would have been better to flat out reduce the cooldowns and increase the damage on weapon skills.Then the trait “special weapon effects” will get on a line.

I think so, anyway. Though the devs reviewing all weapon skills, making adjustments, and then revising the cds accordingly with the understanding that there won’t be any traits to affect them would be better than a blanket 20% reduction, imo.

I personally favour making the special effects non-specific to a particular weapon (noting that some weapons will naturally pair better with specific effects than others). But I respect that some people prefer the concept of traits making someone a "master’ of specific weapons.

SenthRawr.7843:

Well,The whole thought process is the combination of all weapon traits into one and those open trait slots to get lot of traits and open up more combinations.

One downside of that approach is that it further locks warriors into having to take Discipline regardless of build, whereas a better goal is to purge mandatory traitlines altogether.

Just food for thought.

@GenoGar
I know they said that, but look at the reality of the situation. In this thread alone a Master trait has been described as way too powerful in relation to two different Grandmasters, all of which were revamped in the run-up to the “gamechangers” comment.

There are plenty of other examples, including Adept and minor traits that are better than Grandmasters, and that’s not just true of the warrior.

I also see the relationship between FG and PS, which is why they’re always paired. But I think you’re speaking very much from a pve perspective. Moving the might generation from FG to PS would rip the core out of a number of builds where warrior is struggling the most, for what seems to be little reason than the convenience of people who can afford to run Tactics to take PS, and only so they don’t feel as compelled to use a greatsword for unclear reasons.

As for Axe Mastery, I’ve posted that very explanation to people who felt AM instead of BP was a better choice for some reason. But I think you’re going down the wrong route here… Forceful Greatsword isn’t the problem, AM is (among a number of things).

If warriors were strong relative to other classes, then looking at rebalancing within the class or even giving a bit of a nerf might make sense. But the warrior is seriously underpowered relative to most other classes at the moment in most aspects of the game.

The greatsword being too powerful just isn’t true in relation to the rest of the game, it’s only true in relation to most of our other weapons.

With all due respect, those sound like terrible ideas to me.

1. Saying something is “too strong for a master trait” makes no sense ever since we moved to a system in which you get access to all traits in whatever line you choose
2. Moving the might stacking to Phalanx Strength would kill the dps for the significant number of warriors running gs in competitive play, where warrior is struggling the most.
3. Putting a 1 second ICD on the trait is a straight-out hard nerf to every weapon, not just the gs, with no rationale beyond trying to make the gs as bad at generating might as the other weapons (but making those other weapons weaker in the process too)
4. Moving the 10% damage buff to a Ferocity bonus unnecessarily ties the weapon to maintaining precision as a core stat. Granted, most power-based builds will do this anyway, but this makes that mandatory for no reason

If you just want to be able to generate might with other weapons because you have some sort of aesthetic objection to using a greatsword, then just make the trait grant might on critical hits generally (like how Shield Mastery works for sword5 and mace2).

If you just wish Axe Mastery or Merciless Hammer were more powerful, then look for ways to buff them.

It seems crazy to me to seriously be looking at warrior traits right now and saying, “yeah, we should really nerf those”. To nerf the class as a whole just to reduce the opportunity cost of choosing one weapon over another seems even crazier.

Eh… a number of us who’ve written, probably excessively, in support of baselining Fast Hands have identified eliminating FH and reworking the weapons and traits as a valid alternative.

Making FH baseline is just way less work and less prone to a long rebalance period. So given Anet hasn’t even responded to calls for the “easy route”, never mind implementing it, the more extensive rework you’re proposing seems even less likely.

darkaheart.4265:

^_^!
you’ll be surprise how bad condi builds do vs zerker builds, especially in pvp

Lol, no I wouldn’t.

Cool. Or EotM, since you’re red this week and I’m green.

Then again, unless one of us plans on running a condi build, then food and utilities aren’t going to be a factor and a pvp arena will do just fine.

I’m a couple of hours behind you, but will try to catch you.

darkaheart.4265:

@Choppy
I’m up for some duels, I’m in Sea of Sorrows and you?

I’m in Ehmry. We actually dueled before in OS a long time ago… I think you were in CD at the time or something. You won more often than I did, so it’d be good to get another few rounds in to see if I’ve gotten relatively better.

(Note: I was offering duels to help infinity test his build, but I’m almost always up for them, tbh. It’s a great way to get better.)

Cerby.1069:

(0.06 * Condition Damage) + 33.5 damage per stack per second at Level 80.

Given I have 0 condition damage. it’s 33.5 damage per stack per second. How many stacks does sigil of doom grant you?
“Your next attack after you swap to this weapon while in combat inflicts poison (8 seconds).”

Does this mean it grants 8 stacks? 335/second x 8 = 2680? That’s pretty high for 0 condition dmg.
I’m using sigil of ice + bloodlust currently on my Gs (daytime)
-30% Chance on Hit: Inflict Chill (2 Seconds) (Cooldown: 10 Seconds)
But I dont know how useful it is. It really only works once per fight and is there to make the enemy panic I suppose. I have hydromacy on my shield already (2 sec chill on swap).

-So I had that question about sigil of doom (looks interesting for its heal debuff values).
-And I was also wondering if superior sigil of cruelty (+10 ferocity stacks). Would be a better option than bloodlust? I mean I got the eagle runes which are precision and ferocity. Giving me a total of 60% crit chance on my Gs. and 55 with me Sword/Sh. I looked online and it seems to indicate power is a better bet. Some people said the opposite for pve…idk. Wondering if anyone had any info or insight on the matter.

Doom just gives you one stack, so the damage would be a mere 33.5/s for 8s. It’s value for even non-condi builds is that it denies 33% of your opponent’s healing, no matter how many stacks or condi damage, and it effects all healing including regen, healing skills, water blasts, etc.

The main issue using Doom sigil on a non-condi build is that you aren’t applying many condis, so there’s a good chance the poison will get cleared by a lot of builds without your opponent even thinking about it (e.g. Brawlers Recovery).

Sigil of Ice… yeah, I’ve never used it but I could see there being much better choices. I do think Hydromancy would be better on your gs than your sword set though. I mean, it might help you land a FT more easily, but you have other tools to do that. Getting someone to eat more 100b or Whirlwind is a way better use for it.

Regarding Bloodlust vs Cruelty sigils, Bloodlust gives you better average damage even when you factor in your permanent Fury. If your crit chance goes down (like if you switch out of Eagle Runes, you don’t maintain Fury, or your opponent can’t be crit), then Bloodlust is that much better than Cruelty.

That being said, it won’t be a huge difference for you under normal circumstances. So if it’s a matter of you trying to save money then going with Cruelty should be fine. It’ll also help you decide if you can maintain your stacks before you invest too much gold into it. If you can’t, go with a non-stacking sigil.

I have no idea why someone would say Cruelty comes out better in pve. I just did a strait damage calculation assuming the same target, same weapon and skill damage, etc. Even at 100%, crit chance, Bloodlust came out on top.

The numbers will only go up if you’re able to stack more burns because they last longer.

For example, suppose you were able to put out 5 burns for 6s, on a 6s cooldown, but when you took KoF your burns now lasted for 8s. After 6s, you’d be able to apply another 5 burns onto your first 5, which would double the damage per tick from second 6 to second 8.

Regardless of whether you’re able to stack or not, you should see more damage ticks in your combat log, and KoF should indeed be increasing your burn output by 33% by way of duration.

If you want to test it, apply a burn to one of the practice golems in the pvp area with KoF traited and then do it again without it traited. Count the number of times burns are registered in your combat log for each application.

One note, be careful that your gear/traits/etc don’t have you exceeding +100% burn duration (including burn specific extenders and general condi extenders). You can’t exceed +100% duration, so anything past that is wasted.

Glad to hear it’s working out. I like the build too.

With regard to runes, feel free to leave your eagle runes on there for now if you want. Runes that interact with might pretty great with this build, but eagle aren’t bad or anything. I’m personally enjoying Strength runes, which is the most damage-oriented of the lot.

In terms of sigils, I’m a huge fan of Energy. This build relies on a lot of dodging, and don’t forget that your dodging is offensive as well. I’m regularly hitting 3-6k aoe through Reckless Dodge, and keeping your energy less than full is how you’ll get your bonus 10% damage as well. Energy sigil helps feed the beast.

Of the stacking sigil, bloodlust is your best bet here. I don’t personally use it because, as a melee roamer, maintaining stacks isn’t always easy.

Air’s a good one for your greatsword and Intelligence is a good one for your sword. I routinely hit 8-13k with Final Thrust (had a 20k against a tower lord last night), and don’t forget that FT cleaves. Ensuring that crit is never a bad thing. Hydromancy is a popular one for greatsword to help land more 100b, Fire’s not bad, and even Doom has it’s value (plus it’s really cheap).

One advantage of air and fire sigils is that they visibly proc when you hit a stealthed target. I’ve had that happen many times when fighting thieves, which immediately tells me where to burst. I’d bet 40% of my thief kills have been when I’ve caught them in stealth, and my sigils have helped with a good number of them.

Foodwise, there are a bunch of foods that provide more or less the same benefit as far as condi reduction goes, so look around. Other good options are foods that provide might (especially once you get might-based runes), ferocity boosters, or just good, ol’ mango pie, which some people swear by and is so cheap it must have come form a dumpster.

I got the sense that Anet originally saw the Guardian in the defensive buff role, and warriors in the offensive buff role.

It’s never been entirely one or the other, but if they stick to that concept then the key party buffs would be might, quickness, and fury. We have the might down pretty well (though I’m not sure if we’re the best anymore), and others have us beat on quickness and fury. Don’t know if it’s worth sticking mainly to the offensive buff concept or not.

To the original point, yeah… Tactics is a pretty meh line overall, but I find myself taking it more often than Arms, tbh. Not because it’s necessarily better, but more because it has a trait or two that I might want whereas Arms almost never does. Generally, I stay away from both.

If you’re enjoying warrior in pve, then stick with it and ignore everyone else. If you don’t find it fun, try your rev. Simple as that.

A great majority of the comments are about pvp and wvw.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The issue I see a Settler’s build running into is that if you face anyone with decent removal (or Diamond Skin) you’ll just be flat out countered. With Cele you at least have enough power damage to make it work vs condi-resistant builds. I always hate going full condi with Sword and then Final Thrust is almost useless.

Yeah, it’s definitely a risk. That being said, Armored Attack ends up giving you about half the power you’re getting from Cele, so it’s not a total blowout. And then you have higher condi for everyone else plus the better heals and armor. But, yeah, point taken.

Elegie.3620:

Choppy.4183:

I’m on EB, so duels won’t happen with me anytime soon. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of others though.

In EotM, servers are grouped together by color (green, red, blue), so provided you both belong to a different color for the current week, then you may go and duel there. This won’t be this week as you both seem to be green, but maybe next week…

I always forget about EoTM. We’re both green this week, but maybe next week will work out. Thanks for the tip.

Agreed on the stability. I messed around with your build a bit, Burr, and I think you’d get more mileage with King of Fires and a Settler’s Amulet.

No joke. If you also trait Armored Attack and add a Smoldering Sigil, you only lose about 250-300 power but gain 500 toughness, a bunch of condi damage, and better heals. Overall damage is higher, as is your sustainability, and you have more opportunities to proc your heals on stun break because you won’t have so much stability.

I thought the new Wanderer amulet might be good, but wasn’t in love with the result. It was ok, but I didn’t think the extra damage was worth the loss of sustain.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

yeah a cc weapon should totally measured by its damage output….not

Do you find it better or worse now that you see the benefits beyond damage of the engi hammer vs the warrior hammer? Or, hell, any of our weapons… do you think any of them compete?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Engies only get medium armor.

Lol, think we could go tradesies with them?

This is a really interesting and depressing way at evaluating relative balance, and I find myself struggling to find a silver lining here. Things actually get worse when you add in the additional effects.

The engi #1 attack chain does alightly less damage, but it adds two stacks of might and two stacks of might and two stacks of vuln for 8s over the course of the 1.5s it takes to execute the chain.

The engi #2 skill doesn’t add the weakness that Fierce Blow gives us, but it’s a 360 degree aoe attack that’s more likely to hit foes, is a whirl finisher (see engi #5), and reflects projectiles. It also does 50% more damage with only 50% the cooldown that Fierce Blow has.

The engi #3 skill lacks the aoe cripple that hammer Shock gives us. In exchange, it gets: 4x the damage, includes a leap finisher that, with a range of 1000, outclasses any mobility skill in the warrior’s kitten nal, includes a 1s evade that’s longer than the warrior’s only evade (Whirlwind Attack), and has a cooldown that’s 2s shorter than Fierce Blow. Did I mention the damage? Did I mention that it hits 20% harder than a stage-3 Eviscerate to up to 5 targets?

The engi has the same 20s cooldown as the warrior’s Staggering Blow, and it doesn’t get the 360 degree aoe knockback SB gives the warrior. What does it get? Damage that’s just a little less than a stage-3 Eviscerate on up to five targets, provides a 2s block, and applies 10 stacks of vuln for 5s. To sum that up, it combines a block that’s 2/3 our best one (Shield Stance), all the vulnerability from our best weapon application (Crushing Blow) for half the time but on 2/3 more targets, and simultaneously hits just about as hard as one of our highest damaging skills (Eviscerate) to 5x the targets.

Engi skill #5 doesn’t get the long 2s knockdown that Backbreaker gives the warrior. What it does provide is a 6s fire-and-forget pulsing lightning field that has a 1200 range, stuns all targets for 1s, applies vulnerability, and does just shy of 50% more damage than a stage-3 Eviscerate…. Oh yeah, and it’s cooldown is 6s shorter than Backbreaker.

At this point, I’d like to be say, “at least the warrior can swap weapons”, but why would you want to? It has huge damage, buffs and debuffs, amazing mobility, two highly damaging defensive skills, and a high damage combo field that can be dropped at range. And then you remember the kits, which have a zero swap cooldown while we’re begging for a baseline 5s weapon swap….

Ok, I’m depressed. Can anyone think of anything that makes this not seem as bad as it looks?

Haha, tell your friends. I even noticed a couple of people on the Guardian subforum asking for buffs to warriors and thieves, so it isn’t just warriors who’ve noticed.

I’m on EB, so duels won’t happen with me anytime soon. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of others though.

Others are better qualified to comment on pvp (though I might make some suggestions), but what will you want to do most in wvw: roam, havoc, zerg bust, zerg?

Also,, are you open to anything or would you really prefer to run a bow? (It can be done, just looking for clarification).

At the end of the day, we all know that warriors need more than a few superficial fixes.

I don’t know if Anet is intending to fix things or not, but I do know for certain that they couldn’t have done what’s required by now even if they didn’t have the normal bugs from HoT, new game functionality and modes to work out, etc.

This stuff takes time, and we’re seriously going to need to chill out. The devs are certainly going to have more pressing things competing for their time right now than the state of warriors in competitive play.

That being said, if any Anet employees are reading this, you’d diffuse a fair amount of tension if you left a comment acknowledging that the player base sees a problem with warriors at the moment, and that you’ll be looking into it and working on a solution within some sort of reasonable timeline.

Something like this. Something like the Wolf….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzNvicZWZ_A

Hasky.7185:

Firstly: Thank you very much

I didn’t know that “physical skills” is so specific :O

GS seems to be used often, i think i will switch my bow for GS and take Forceful GS, sry for the Inspiring Battle Standard, i was using Banner of Strength instead of For Great Justice at that time, but what is better? BoS with regen, or FGJ for the might?

Here the updated Build

And should I swap Dolyak Signet for Endure Pain?

No problemo. As for your questions plus some additional comments….

• If you’re running solo, banners will never be worth it. Even if you’re not, I don’t personally run them, but if you want to maximize group support you’d run a banner along with Phalanx Strength from Tactics. I don’t think this is what you’re going for, so skip the banners and take FGJ
• Dolyaks is probably a better choice for your current build over Endure Pain. Unless you find you’re getting bursted down a lot, Dolyaks will give you better damage mitigation over time through the armor increase, and you’ll also have stability in case you’re getting tossed around or you’re trying to execute a full 100 blades against enemies with interrupt skills.
• If you find you’re too squishy, consider switching fully to stances (Frenzy, Endure Pain, and either Balanced Stance or Berserker’s Stance, depending on whether condis or cc are a bigger problem), then trait Last Stand again. If you’re not too squishy, don’t make the change.
• You can maintain 100% Fury uptime using SoR and your greatsword burst (which is a better burst than your axe against mobs, but not single targets). As a result, consider switching up your runes eventually if you find this build works for you. Strength or Hoelbrak are good options, as mentioned, though not cheap. Strength lets you stack might better of the two, and then it has the additional damage buff. Hoelbrak helps with condis.

Good luck!

Hasky.7185:

Hi! I haven’t reached 80 yet, so I’m pretty much a big noob

Here is a build I want to do with my warrior, can some of you experts look over it and give me advice? Build

I want a mostly PvE warrior, high survivability and if possible good damage

I read about a build from 3 years ago, where you have a defensive build and berserker armor/accessories, is that still possible?

What about Berserker specialization? It’s mostly damage and a few conditions, right?

The Berserker specialization has three paths in it: one devoted to direct damage, another to condition, and a third to survivability.

In terms of the build you posted, here’s a rework that leaves your weapon choice and most of your gear choices in tact so you can get more out of it.

Changes:

• Swapped Peak Performance for Death From Above. There’s no great trait for you here, but you had no physical skills so PP does nothing for you and DfA is fun and can keep you from dying if you fall too far.
• Swapped Axe Mastery for Berserker’s Power. +20% is better than +150 ferocity, and it applies to all hits rather than just on crit. If you generate enough adren to burst all the time, you can maintain +20% at all times.
• Swapped Dogged March for Shield Mastery. You now reflect projectiles and gain might on every block/reflect, and have faster cooldowns on two good skills.
• Swapped Armored Attack for Defy Pain. You don’t have a high toughness, and the 4s protection you get from DP is better than the 100 or so power you’re getting from AA, imo.
• Swapped Last Stand for Cleansing Ire. You don’t currently have any stances on your bar, so this was really only giving you access to Balanced Stance. Not bad, but CI will help you gain adren faster (helps with BP above) and you’ll be shedding condis like a boss.
• Swapped Inspiring Battle Standard for Brawlers Recovery. You don’t have banners on your bar, so IBS wasn’t giving you anything. BR will help you even further with condis. If you find you have overkill in terms of condi management, you could swap this to Destruction of the Empowered, but only if the baddies you’re fighting have boons.
• Swapped Burst Mastery for Heightened Focus. BM is a good option, and you could keep it. But try HF out for a while… Quickness is super fun, and will work well with your axe auto. Also, the damage you’d be getting from BM with your bow is negligible, and you probably won’t need the adren conservation thanks to CI above.
• Swapped Sigil of Perception for Sigil of Bloodlust. It’s an expensive swap and may not be worth it, but your crit chance is high enough, especially with fury, so you’ll get greater benefit from bloodlust stacks.

I didn’t change your utilities, mostly to keep the build familiar to you, but you could certainly change them around and your traits accordingly. Your weapons too… greatsword is handy for running around the map and most pve mobs will just eat an entire hundred blades, which is nice and easy. Plus, Forceful Greatsword is a great trait.

Your runes are a very good offensive match for your current build. If you find you’re too squishy, you could change them to a more defensive set. If you change your build around, you may want to change the runes accordingly, depending on what you settle on. For example, Strength or Hoelbrak runes are a great match for might generating builds (yours generates might, and a gs build would stack even more, though Rage runes are great too).

In terms of tough builds that use all Berserker gear, it mostly comes down to dodging, stances, and generally playing the class well. If you’re not dying now, you don’t need to make any changes.

If you are dying and are willing to swap your gear, going all Knights and then traiting Armored Attack will give you much higher toughness and almosst equal power to what you have now. What you’ll be giving up is crit damage. There are other builds that trade killing power for survivability.

I’d bet a couple of reasons this build is working for the people who’ve tried it is that it has a little more condi diversity than most warrior builds (burning and confusion are a good pair up) and, most importantly, it’s an unusual setup for warriors that most opponents won’t be expecting.

CtrlAltDefeat and Warlord make very good points, probably identifying why the build almost certainly won’t become part of the meta anywhere. But, hell, may as well use it as long as it’s fun and works.

Infinity, still up for duels, etc. if you want to bang it around a bit more. If you’ve tested it thoroughly already though, don’t sweat it.

Rauderi.8706:

I’m hoping so, OP.

If Revenant is a “new normal,” then Warrior has a lot of catching up to do in comparison.

Lol, I came across this Rev yesterday and all he did was spam Coalescence of Ruin just out of melee range so he could hit me twice with it, and then ran like hell whenever I got close.

The crazy thing is, even though I was clearly a far more competent fighter, he would have won if I actually pursued the engagement after he tried that a few times. I’d have burned up all of my mobility getting to him and he’d still have more to keep away. Meanwhile, I’d have burned up all of my defenses on his early attacks, and he could have kept spamming his #2 skill every 2s for 8k at range….

And that was a matchup between an incompetent Revanant and a Competent warrior, if I do say so myself.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Yeah but there’s a lesson here, don’t presume to win when engaging a Mesmer 1v1. In conquest, it might be smarter to rotate. That said, good consistent ranged pressure can be a nightmare for a Mesmer, it’s just rarely brought.

Weakness is also a bane for power Mesmers, especialy when they’re running cleansless.

Yes, that’s good advice. Mesmers have the advantages in a straight 1v1, so doing what you can to gain the upper hand is definitely desirable.

as you say, ranged pressure to thwart kiting, weakness on power builds (applies to any power build, honestly), and I’d add aoe to wipe clones and make approaching close dangerous can help (though the latter works better against thieves).

In fairness, Ross, a mesmer with any skill who knows you’re there is going to know to avoid eating a killshot.

I agree that it’s probably the most likely scenario for a warrior to quickly end a mesmer, but a warrior that’s able to dodge a mesmer burst vs a mesmer unable to dodge a killshot isn’t exactly a match of equal skill.

Either can work, and so can hybrid. The most powerful build dps wise has gotta be anything that maxes burn damage while using Berserker, but a power-based lb/gs can work well for roaming.

I’ve used Berserker gear, but I know someone once posted the same build using Valk gear instead, using the Intelligence sigil to max the CS->AS->WA damage while still getting the vitality bonus from valk.

The power build uses str/def/disc, condi would probably go tac/disc/bers (as you said, and only because you can’t afford to camp a weapon there). Hybrid, I’m not sure… probably either one of those, depending on what you wanted to focus. Lots of options.

The odds are definitely not in your favour, but here are some tips:

• As you’re running around trying to catch the real mesmer, be sure to spam 1 to kill all the clones and phantasms along the way. If you’re up against a condi mesmer, they’re the ones doing most of the damage as the real mesmer abuses stealth. It helps reduce the burst of shatter mesmers too
• If you have trouble identifying the real mesmer from the clones, look to the buffs. Iirc, clones don’t get stacks like bloodlust or food/utility buffs (if in wvw)
• Never get surrounded. if you find yourself surrounded by clones/phantasms in melee range, you’re in a trap. Try to keep all illusions on one side of you so you can’t get simultaneously hit by all when the mesmer shatters
• If you see all of the illusions running toward you, the mesmer is shattering. Dodge and/or whirlwind through them.
• Learn to recognize standard bursts and openers. For example, it’s really common for shatter mesmers to open by throwing there greatsword at you (unblockable, btw) while simultaneously having a hard-hitting phantasm appear next to you and whirlwind through you, then getting close to you to hit you with a shatter. Dodge or whirlwind through the flying sword and the iBerserker (the phantasm).
• Mesmers normally have two stun breaks on their bar, and possibly a third through traits. One is their long teleport (Blink) and it’s on a 30s cd, and the other (plus trait) cloaks them leaving a clone (Decoy) and is on a 40s cd. These are critical skills for the mesmer to kite or escape from you, so force them out early if you have reasonably low cd cc skills.
• If you see the mesmer doing something that looks like our Flurry (or 100b), don’t stand in it. They evade all attacks while they channel it and, though it’s mostly used defensively to avoid your burst, it hits hard if you’re standing in it.
• Mesmers have access to lots of blinds. Make sure you’re clearing your blind before leading into your bursts/big hits.

The above should help, but you really are at a disadvantage. I played mesmer for a few weeks after the June 23 patch and I rolled over average warriors even though I still didn’t understand my skills and didn’t have much in the way of tight rotations. They even used Rampage, and it didn’t matter. I was playing a shatter mesmer too… condi mesmer would have been even easier against a warrior. If I’d been a skilled or even average mesmer…..

Looks like an interesting build. Would you be able to give up Burst Mastery for Heightened Focus or is adren generation an issue? If it’s not, consider HF.

I’m happy to go a few rounds with you if you’re up for it. Shoot me a message whenever… I’m usually on late prime time NA, but sometimes earlier as well. I’ll probably only bring warrior builds because, well, I suck with most of my other toons.

Cerby.1069:

Think I might try something like this. Where I main sword/shield at the start of a fight and switch to gs when I have an opening to land thousand blades.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJEQNAR8ejMdQXHWFCOeAnIGICK9Lm+pwCgIYAwW/FWBA-TlTDAB9o04hLAwBPAgnUmAmSwXU/hXNCQpEKENBgojRhDCAAmGoZ/BpPCAkBYZLA-w

I might switch dolyak for balanced state if I really need the swiftness.

Fwiw, I solo roam and havoc with gs/sw+sh in wvw all the time, and it can work very well.

Here’s the build I normally run, and here’s a link to a video someone else put out a while ago that uses a similar build so you can see it in action. Finally, here’s a link to his thread when he put out the video.

A few notes:

• The video is pre-HoT and, I’m not gonna lie, things are rougher going with the new specializations running around.
• It runs glassy, but it’s damage mitigators are (in order): damage pressure so others are on the defensive rather than offensive, lots of dodges through vigor and energy sigil, shield 5 (traited), a bunch of stances (most of which are stun breakers too), mobility, Healing Signet active if you get condi bombed and everything else is on cooldown.
• There are lots of good alternative sigils. Hoelbrak runes can do too, if condi defense is needed more than raw power.
• You have to be good at dodges, understanding your cooldowns, anticipating bursts, and understanding your exits in order to do well with this build. But you can do well roaming or dueling. I sometimes swap to axe during duels, depending on what I’m fighting.
• Shield Mastery is sooooo much better than Dogged March, it’s almost a crime that you posted a shield build that went for DM over SM.
• The gs/h build is good and serviceable for sure, but you’re a sitting duck against ranged attackers, especially while roaming. It used to be my main build for roaming, but I shifted to shield after the June 23 patch. That shield got buffed again in Sept made it all the better.
• H/gs is still good for dueling, sometimes better, as far as warrior builds go.

Lol…

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