Guild Wars 2

Velran.1052:

lol more people using their salt over daredevils to justify bad game mechanics. Movement speed is part of DD balance (or unbalance), and regardless of if it needs to be nerfed or not, you should not be inherently allowed to escape fights that easily.
Kittening hilarious when zerglings call roamers bad and demand not fighting anything that they cant win over. Guess this community will continue to be a cucked downhill spiral into casualness. Might as well replace other servers with AI that cant fight back so even with the crappiest zerg build you wouldn’t stand a chance of losing.

If you run a zerg build that can’t fight 1v1 then don’t go around alone. Otherwise you deserve to die. And this isn’t about people running away. This is about people waypointing the moment i render on their screen. I’ve had people WP away while outnumbering us, leaving their friends to die.

Lol, man, using the map to waypoint before a fight has even started isn’t a broken mechanic.

You’re being mocked about making the complaint while maiming a darefevil because (1) running from fights they can’t win is what daredevils do (before and after a fight has started), and (2) you have the most tools to prevent what you’re complaining about, and yet you’re the only one salty about it.

It is a bit rich that a daredevil main is complaining about people escaping fights….

Malthurius.6870:

It sounds to me that you’re arguing against build diversity. Do you seriously believe the game would not benefit from having a more diverse selection of competitive builds to do damage with? Sure, there’s no negative consequence to it staying as it is now, other than warrior builds being similar across PvE content… but there is an obvious benefit to making more builds competitive in the PvE space within the same profession.

Well, I wouldn’t have been so blunt if he hadn’t been so rude about it. While, yes, I do think it’s good to have build diversity, that’s not how it was framed by either the guy I was writing to nor the OP.

It’s obviously very firmly in the “nice to have” column though, and definitely not deserving of all the salt poured out here.

Even though I don’t love being able to glide away from a fight that’s already engaged, preventing gliding when engaged would be worse overall.

People mapping before a fight starts? That’s no kind of issue.

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

If it’s just pve, what does it matter? Why not just go with whatever works best?

Axe/Axe is the highest damage power DPS weapon for warrior and it barely does higher than 16k dps. See the problem there?

Then, condi literally does double that damage, but nobody wants to play with bows and torches on warrior while doing DoTs

No, I don’t see the problem.

I guess you don’t have eyes

Lol, more like I recognize the absurdity of a belief that it matters if power and condi do equivalent damage in pve.

I guess you don’t have eyes

Would you care to explain why it matters? Because, so far, it just seems like whining about nothing worth whining about.

I just edited my post XD
Also, why it matters depends on who you are.
You don’t think it matters so why do you care?

what does it matter if there are power builds that can perform as well as Condi?

What?
What power build on warrior are you playing thats doing anywhere near condition builds?
. . .
I’m not sure why you keep responding though since you don’t even care.

Oh, but I do care. I care about real issues being addressed and non-issues being identified for what they are. Since you’re apparently unable to successfully understand the question I asked, let me help you…..

The answer is it doesn’t matter. In other words you’re complaining about a non-issue.

Worrying about warrior power builds not contributing as much damage in pve as warrior condi builds is on the same level as worrying that warrior mace doesn’t generate might like warrior greatsword.

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

If it’s just pve, what does it matter? Why not just go with whatever works best?

Axe/Axe is the highest damage power DPS weapon for warrior and it barely does higher than 16k dps. See the problem there?

Then, condi literally does double that damage, but nobody wants to play with bows and torches on warrior while doing DoTs

No, I don’t see the problem.

I guess you don’t have eyes

Lol, more like I recognize the absurdity of a belief that it matters if power and condi do equivalent damage in pve.

I guess you don’t have eyes

Would you care to explain why it matters? Because, so far, it just seems like whining about nothing worth whining about.

I just edited my post XD
Also, why it matters depends on who you are.
You don’t think it matters so why do you care?

Didn’t answer the question. If in pve the only thing that matters is time, then what does it matter if there are power builds that can perform as well as Condi?

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

If it’s just pve, what does it matter? Why not just go with whatever works best?

Axe/Axe is the highest damage power DPS weapon for warrior and it barely does higher than 16k dps. See the problem there?

Then, condi literally does double that damage, but nobody wants to play with bows and torches on warrior while doing DoTs

No, I don’t see the problem.

I guess you don’t have eyes

Lol, more like I recognize the absurdity of a belief that it matters if power and condi do equivalent damage in pve.

I guess you don’t have eyes

Would you care to explain why it matters? Because, so far, it just seems like whining about nothing worth whining about.

I also reported it in game when we had the last thread going about it. The skill also doesn’t benefit from Quickness.

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

If it’s just pve, what does it matter? Why not just go with whatever works best?

Axe/Axe is the highest damage power DPS weapon for warrior and it barely does higher than 16k dps. See the problem there?

Then, condi literally does double that damage, but nobody wants to play with bows and torches on warrior while doing DoTs

No, I don’t see the problem.

I guess you don’t have eyes

Lol, more like I recognize the absurdity of a belief that it matters if power and condi do equivalent damage in pve.

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Choppy.4183:

If it’s just pve, what does it matter? Why not just go with whatever works best?

Axe/Axe is the highest damage power DPS weapon for warrior and it barely does higher than 16k dps. See the problem there?

Then, condi literally does double that damage, but nobody wants to play with bows and torches on warrior while doing DoTs

No, I don’t see the problem.

Also, dps and dot are different ways of measuring damage that can be used to describe both condi and power builds.

If it’s just pve, what does it matter? Why not just go with whatever works best?

Yuffi.2430:

I would have thought that gliding from garrison to the south of your home BL was more about getting back into a fight quickly than escaping a poorly fought fight.

Two separate points. I’d expect most people to just fly over most of the map from garri to the south, whether there’s a fight there or not, but bypassing a big chunk of the map all the same. Escaping poorly fought fights is something that happens now, and I’d hate to see the opportunities to do so expanded, personally.

Keviin Snow.5760:

I heard u can buy something in gem shop or ingame , so you glide in wvw only ?

No, not as far as I know. You need HoT to glide.

I guess I’ll take the minority position and say that I don’t like the idea, though I appreciate the motivation for it.

While your proposal would make the ruins more important to hold, it’s main value would be realized by the map home team and would result in players gliding from Garrison to the south.

Though I think Anet’s done a good job with the gliding, I don’t love the idea of even more opportunity for people to safely bypass huge swaths of the map. We already have people gliding from one structure to another, escaping poorly fought fights, and avoiding them altogether…. I don’t think we need more of that.

Caedmon.6798:

That isnt really the issue Choppy.The issue is Everyone and his mother running condi spec thus it being a struggle uphill to fight vs “Proper” condi players without cleanse and not the random baddie here and there.

His claim was that Cleansing Ire is used more than Fast Hands in pvp and that just isn’t the case. The rest of what you and I have been discussing is evidence about just how important CI is. It seems to me that, if I can regularly succeed while outnumbered in a high condi environment like wvw without the trait, then it can’t be that important.

Powerful and useful, absolutely, but not mandatory.

Is this about… pee vee eee?

Caedmon.6798:

I dont know what tier youre fighting in.But i roam with 2 – 3 people mostly only fighting outmanned where about everyone is condi and otherwise being chased by a condi blob.Where doing these fights without condi cleanse it being a massive pain in the ass if resists are on cd.Even with cleansin ire,theres just so kitten much condi in wvw currently its hardly any fun either imo.Im hoping the xpack will switch things up,but i doubt.

Tiers don’t really mean anything in wvw anymore. Condi is everywhere, and I roam solo, harass blobs, and regularly 1vx.

Our other tools include buckets of resistance, other clears (traits and/or skills), blocks, evades (LS helps with that), mobility, gear (sigils, runes), food, and positioning. Being able to kill your enemy quickly helps a lot too.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

PvP forum is <—- that way

But, yes, balance in GW2 is a joke.

Still, it’s pretty bad in wvw too. A friend was running something similar in wvw and it was just dropping out 5k heals like it was nothing.

On a side note, is the background music 8-kittenerub Rock? That might be the start of a new music “meta” for gw2 vids. About time.

Edit: Man… the kitten filter is strict. It deployed on 8-bit_.Cherub Rock, and actually made it worse. Something about rubbing 8 kittens?

Caedmon.6798:

Kinda agree,theres way too much condi being thrown around to be anywhere near viable in this current meta without condi cleanse.Ive tried ditching it at times in wvw to grab last stand but usually quickly switching back.Its not the fact that you fight One condi here and there its the fact that about Everyone and his mother is running condi specs atm.speaking about wvw.I dont see any build being viable without condi cleanse currently no matter how good u are.

I’ve been running Last Stand as a wvw roamer for about the last couple of years and to very good effect. We have plenty of tools to deal with condi besides Cleansing Ire.

You’ll note as well that when pressed for builds that don’t use FH, he could only make vague reference to a gimmick build that was rarely used and is easily shut down. Meanwhile, Rousing Resilience has actually been used by some Berserker builds to take advantage of all the stun breaks it provides. Last Stand is also viable in pvp, even if Cleansing Ire is normally a better choice.

Fast Hands is clearly the most (near) mandatory trait for warriors, and it has been since launch, at least in competitive play.

Vertep.2498:

yeah so it must be this and I just playing almost 2 months in this game and this is why I didnt noticed it before

Ah, fair enough. It looks like you play thief and, tbh, I’m not sure whether or not there are good builds to address this sort of warrior. I main warrior and, in a pvp situation (especially on point), I don’t find them easy to deal with.

In wvw, I can completely shut them down and you could do, mostly by stretching out the fight over distance and time. Trapped in a tight spot with limited time makes them tricky to deal with because burns… burn.

Fwiw, they should be easier to deal with now that their condi clear and health regen have been cut by almost 2/3.

Jzaku.9765:

Are you guys even reading the thread wtf

He’s saying that Anet made yet another traitline so mandatory for warrior to function and this is horrible, which all of us should agree with.

He claimed that the trait is broken and that it makes Strength mandatory. Neither of those things are true.

Sounds like a pretty standard condi berserker to me:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scorched_Earth
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattering_Blow
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Counterblow
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Master

How are you only just noticing this now two years later?

Why would you be upset about too much energy then in pve?

Also, it takes application if 10 might to equal one dodge, and that assumes not already being at full endurance or under the effect of weakness.

It doesn’t seem remotely broken to me, nor does it make the Strength line mandatory.

jadaniel.4910:

ANet will never make FH baseline. No reason to. I don’t see what people would run if it was baseline anyway. Exactly what they have now except with a free trait slot to pick something else. It isn’t FH that’s limiting builds for warriors it’s the meta. If you want to blame something blame meta not FH. Baselining FH doesn’t solve the problem of build variety.

It can’t be the meta if the vast majority of warriors have been slotting the trait in all modes, across all metas, since game launch.

While it does seem ridiculously overpowered when compared to other elites, it may actually be good for wvw.

First, all sides of a zerg fight can deploy multiple bubbles, so it’s not as though it’s a strategic asset for just one team. Second, it might lead to some interesting tactics, like spreading out the swarm (I.e. that doesn’t’ just have to mean pirate ship). Third, it’s hugely disruptive to the context of a fight, but it’s not lethal in and of itself (like the epidemic problem on siege, before the changes).

Don’t know… I’m not opposed to nerfing or dropping it as per the OP, but I’m inclined to ride it out and see if it makes things more interesting.

Krysard.1364:

What should be the compelling argument then if its not something related to the core mechanics and design of warrior? As for FH having to be deleted if Anet properly balances warr, they should just make it compete with other strong GMs. And, iirc, when Anet buffed rifle like crazy, there was a build that countered a lot of tanky meta builds that used Arms instead of Disci. While not meta, it was rly strong on a lot of usual comps seen at top level, and that is already way more than we can say about Cleansing Ire.

Design encompasses a lot more than the F1 abilities of a class. In this case, warrior has been balanced around FH precisely because it’s a powerful trait that practically all standard builds have used since launch.

The better litmus test is if a class is kitten without a trait. Traits are, according to Anet, supposed to be a means of customizing a class, and the traitlines are supposed to be optional.

Running rifle without Discipline has never been more than a gimmick in pvp, and is inferior on point and easily blown up without the element of surprise by a competent player. It can have its uses, but that doesn’t make it competitive.

TheBravery.9615:

Entering berserk mode should count as using a tier 3 burst skill, and berserk mode bursts should have shorter cooldowns if primal bursts remain tier 1 bursts.

How short? I’d think undoing the change to Smash Brawler would be enough, especially since it can be combined with the reduction minor from Discipline.

I agree with your overall take on what the overall identity of what Berserker should be, and proposed having entering the mode count as the bursts as well.

I personally see that as better than rolling back the change to primal bursts as it relates to traits like BP because it gives fair credit for adrenaline earned, concentrates the sustain to berserk mode itself, and helps cut down on the sustaining cheese that many berserkers crutched on.

I’d also (personally) be in favour of increasing the cd of all rage skills by (say) 50%, but then cutting them by 50% if used in Berserk mode. That would give headbutt a cd of 30s normally, but 15s if used in Berserk, and Outrage a normal cd of 15s, but 8s in rage. Just an idea, and maybe a bad one, but intended to load up the value on the identity of the specialization.

The obvious counter would be to try to kite while a warrior is raging, but then giving the berserker tools to make this no easy feat.

It might be a little better, mostly because you don’t have the might generation potential of a build that uses Forceful Greatsword. If you do plan to start using FG (e.g. going back to core), I’d stick with what you’ve got (and maybe have a Hoelbrak set for when condis make you sad).

That said, PoF could turn the boon game on its head. I personally wouldn’t put a big investment into boon gear until I saw how that played out.

Krysard.1364:

Except Ive seen more competitive (talking about pvp btw) builds without fast hands than cleansing ire. No decent warrior build has ever played without cleansing ire for as far as I can remember. Also, my point was, FH shouldnt be made baseline cause it doesnt hinder thw actual class mechanics, opposed to other cases. It has nothing to do with a trait being mandatory or not. Making FH base would be the unreasonable and lazy solution. If its the only solution, well, thats sad, but I would rather have anet fix warrior and make FH an optional trait that changes the way you play warr, like it does Fresh Air to say something.

Which competitive builds aren’t slotting Fast Hands in pvp? Meanwhile, Cleaning Ire is the more commonly selected GM trait on a line that’s taken for other reasons, with Rousing Resilience and Last Stand making appearances as well.

In fact, Fast Hands had been in practically every competitive build even before Cleansing Ire was introduced and before the current trait system. At that time, every competitive warrior build invested just enough points to get Fast Hands and then often stopped going any further into Discipline.

That aside, there’s no history of hindrance to the core mechanic being the determining factor for baselining a trait and it’s not a compelling argument anyway.

Moreover, it makes no sense to say Fast Hands shouldn’t be baselined to deal with a problem but, instead, Anet should invest a bunch more time buffing other areas to make warrior viable without it. Obviously, if they took the longer path, then FH would have to be deleted.

Krysard.1364:

I think you all are missing the point Xaylin made. Fast hands being overpowered and mandatory for any viable warrior build doesnt mean it should be baseline as it doesnt cripple your core mechanics in any way as other situations exposed (mesmer). If fast hands was made baseline, you might aswell make cleansing ire baseline as you “will notice a heavy difference playing at gold tier or higher with or without it”.
I hate trait lines being mandatory, and I would like to be able to drop def/disc too, but imo theres no reasonable reason behind making FH base besides Anet being lazy and balancing warrior the cheap way.

Except Cleansing Ire isn’t mandatory, lots of competitive builds don’t use it, and its effects are easily replicated using other useful traits and skills.

My response to Xaylin’s point, as you’ve laid it out, is so what? Fast Hands isn’t only important for the core mechanic, and being shut out of a core mechanic isn’t the litmus test for whether something should be made baseline.

Whether Fast Hands should be made baseline isn’t about mesmers, but since we’re talking about IP as though that’s the standard, did you know that there were several common and competitive builds that didn’t use it before it was baselined? Not so with Fast Hands, which seems to me a more compelling case.

Did you also know that IP wasn’t the only trait made baseline for mesmers at that time? Is the claim now that all of those traits were necessary for mesmers to access their core mechanic, and that that’s more compelling than the case for Fast Hands? I hope not.

It’s either make Fast Hands baseline, delete it while bringing in a host of additional balance changes, or unnecessarily keep warrior in a narrow range of build diversity by sticking with the status quo for…. reasons.

I’d rather Anet take the “cheap way” as you’ve described it than nothing at all. Hell, I might even prefer it as the least disruptive and most achievable fix.

babazhook.6805:

You suggested that all a thief has to do is dodge and kite wih SB in order to kill an enemy.

Um… no I didn’t. I said that a thief is able to easily contest a cap and that stealth isn’t required. Does that help clear it up? It seems like you misunderstood what I was saying.

Edit: Also, as for not being able to beat a thief on my warrior… man, I’ve beaten you (and you’ve won as well, iirc). There’s no need to get all salty here.

Right… because people need more reasons to sit on walls and use siege rather than coming out to fight. No thanks.

Search.6842:

Does Restorative Strength work with the passive heal from Heal Signet?

Nope, just the active.

Oh yeah, all the time. They tried to fix it a while back, and I think it worked ok for a while, but now it’s bad. If you try to use it when close to your opponent in particular it can lead to hilarious results, like running 10-15 feet away from your target and then swinging.

I did it the other day to finish off an opponent who I was just manhandling, and it ran me off the bridge we were fighting on, and then swung when I landed on the ground underneath. Of course, my opponent took that opportunity to run into the nearby tower. #lootdenied

babazhook.6805:

I will tell you what. Next time our two servers face off you get on your d/p and SB thief and I will get on my roamer warrior and you let me know which map you will go roaming on. You can then show me how just by using SB and D/P you can flip those camps while my warrior there just by your using dodges and kiting without entering stealth.

You’re saying you don’t know how to do it on your thief? My bet is you do, and a better test of it would be me on my warrior and you on your thief.

Just run me around a hut, use shortbow and shadow step, and watch how easy it’ll be for you. And that’s me competently playing a speedy build. Pity the poor necro.

babazhook.6805:

I tend to get testy when people misreprsennt what I said when they respond to a post I make as you did in your first response to me. The ORIGINAL post mentioned theifs high access to stealth. How on Earth is my poiting out using stealth on point is NOT useful off topic?

I merely pointed out that STEALTH thieves could not contest points. I was not talking about dodges. You brought that up.

Can you point out where I stated, as example, that thieves that could not stealth were “boned” when taking a camp . Do you understand that not all thieves spam dodges or rely on dodge builds?

I mean, the original post emphasized mobility and evades more than stealth and said nothing about contesting. A boatload of posts had been made after the original post and before your first post, the previous seven posts weren’t talking about stealth at all, the immediately previous post gave a perspective on roaming, roaming was the subject of your post, and you didn’t quote anyone. So it wasn’t clear who you were talking to or what you were responding to.

Then, for my part, I directly addressed your claim by pointing out that thieves have better potential than all other classes to have the advantage in the situation you described, and that stealth hasn’t been the primary defense strategy pretty much since HoT dropped. I also quoted your original post in full.

Frankly, I don’t see how I misrepresented anything you said.

babazhook.6805:

I DO play a warrior and I do roam with it, and I know exactly how well it perfroms against theives when flipping or defending camps . I also face many warriors who are much better able to deal wit thieves than you suggest when I am on my own theif.

I suggest you get on a thief and play one for months on end and you will run into those warriors.

That said.

You did not bother to read my first post, assumed I was responding to you when it was generic and then choose to misrepresent what I said.

Further debate on this manner is pointless.

You’re off topic. You said,

babazhook.6805:

“Spamming stealth” will very often see an objective lost to a single enemy player because all that time you were stealthed saw the circle up go his way.

And I merely pointed out that a thief is perfectly capable of contesting a camp against enemies without using stealth. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that a high mobility thief is probably best equipped to contest a camp when compared to other classes.

It doesn’t matter if you play both thief and warrior (I didn’t even mention warrior), it doesn’t change the truth of that. I’ve no idea why you seem testy about it either.

babazhook.6805:

You do not play thief. First off if you can remove stealth access from a thief, even one that uses dodges, you have removed a good deal of defenses. My post mentioned steath specifically and did not refer to dodges.

Secondly I DO play warrior. If I come into a camp the same time as an opposing thief and can prevent that thief from entering stealth due to the mechanics mentioned , my chances of winning go up exponentially.

Contrary to claims made . thief does not have infinite dodges. Added to that the weapon evades are easily read and there should be no reason a warrior can not time his attacks to hit said thief in their vulnerable frames.

Warrior will always have more attacks then a thief has dodges and the more of those attacks used that force thief into expending a dodge or evade , the more followup attacks that will hit. I know I mentioned it to you before that a warrior using some of those physical skills (kick, stomp bulls charge as example) can much better counter an evade thief then can a warrior that traits endure pain and all defensive utilities.

I said evades and mobility, not specifically dodges (didn’t say “infinite dodges” either). And I’ve sure fought a crap tonne of thieves, which is all that’s needed for this discussion.

If you’re on a warrior and you come across a halfway competent daredevil, they can mostly rely on shortbow and LoS to keep you from getting the cap, though there’s also shadowstep, dodges, staff movement (if applicable), sword ports (if applicable), Bandit’s Defense (if applicable), etc.

And each camp has its terrain to exploit too. If you’re talking about borderlands, se camp has the huts to skitten around, ne camp has the mill and wood piles, n camp has the table and well, nw camp has the supply structure and the steps (that will force anyone without ports to go the long way), se camp has, well, everything (buildings, fences, etc.), and then s camp has the barn.

I’m able to delay a cap against most people (often groups) for a good while in some of those camps just using my mobility, and it’s not nearly as good as what most daredevils are packing.

So, to the claim that thieves are boned when it comes to contesting a camp due to the stealth mechanic, I say you’re limiting your horizons.

babazhook.6805:

Just some perspective on roaming as it pertains to a thief.

There is a lot of give and take and especially when it comes to those roamers focusing on stealth as defense and that is , if defending or taking a point such as a camp , your single largest defensive asset is now a laibility if facing an enemy player.

“spamming stealth” may help you survive a given encounter, but if your only goal is to survive you might as well stay parked in a tower. “Spamming stealth” will very often see an objective lost to a single enemy player because all that time you were stealthed saw the circle up go his way.

You know as well as everyone else that “spamming stealth” has largely been replaced by the mobility and evades of Daredevil. Stealth is still a powerful defensive option, but the state of thief in regards to capping hasn’t been what you described since HoT dropped.

Xaylin.1860:

Looking at Warrior, on one hand, I agree that Fast-Hands is a very powerful trait which most builds can benefit from – especially in a PvP scenario where flexibility is key. On the other hand, it is far from being mandatory for utilizing, for example, Burst skills.

A couple of questions:

1. Can you think of many (any?) builds considered competitive that don’t use Fast Hands?
2. If Fast Hands is a powerful trait, and given that the vast majority of warriors (past and present) trait Fast Hands, would you describe warriors as overpowered?

I suggest that, because almost all warriors trait Fast Hands (especially competitively), the class has been balanced around having it (cooldowns, damage, utility, etc). The consequence of that and the trait system is that the class unnecessarily loses build diversity potential, which can be corrected by making the one trait practically all warriors have always had baseline.

If making the trait baseline leads to any especially overpowered trait combinations, then those specific traits can be nerfed accordingly. The result would be greater build diversity without additional power creep.

The alternative (but more complicated) path would be to delete the Fast Hands trait altogether and then adjust all warrior cds, damage, utility, traits, etc. accordingly.

sneakytails.5629:

sneakytails.5629:

It’s seems clear to me that the devs do not want this situation where Berserkers, Spellbreakers, and core warriors all choose the same traits, or a situation where all of the most powerfull traits can always be chosen.

Right now there’s are real trade offs and big decisions one must make when choosing your spec, that is how it should be.

You must of have missed this part.

I specifically addressed your trade offs argument.

sneakytails.5629:

No.

This choice between discipline and strength acts as a counterbalance on the elite specs allowing core warrior to have a place.

Core warrior gets freedom of choice, and Elite specs gets powerfull abilities that core will never have.

Giving all warriors Fast Hands baseline only waters down core and makes elite specs feel mandatory.

It’s seems clear to me that the devs do not want this situation where Berserkers, Spellbreakers, and core warriors all choose the same traits, or a situation where all of the most powerfull traits can always be chosen.

Right now there’s are real trade offs and big decisions one must make when choosing your spec, that is how it should be.

Well, you’re dead wrong about core. Discipline would still remain a great line in its own right, and being able to opt for the other two under utilized lines would be good too. Where it created OP combinations through new found choice, then the specific traits that were combining too powerfully could get pinched.

Making FH baseline doesn’t remove tradeoffs, it removes the single trait that’s holding warrior’s build diversity hostage. Berserker wants to skip Discipline to take Strength? No problem, enjoy the longer burst cooldowns, etc. You’d have a point if Discipline was a junk line other than FH, but it’s not.

Wouldn’t Sinister be the closest non-HoT array to Viper?

You can actually use rifle to duel competent people. The entire game of it is positioning and baiting, so that your opponents find themselves looking at an incoming killshot (or gf) and having nothing left in the tank to avoid it.

It works against some builds and not others, but it doesn’t require an incompetent opponent to be successful.

Mikeskies.1536:

The longbow is the ranged condi weapon for warrior. It’s not designed to be used as a power weapon. The rifle is the ranged power weapon, which was recently reworked but had some of its damage nerfed because of gimmicky burst damage in PvP.

It can work quite well as a power weapon, and I’ve used it to good effect on both duels and roaming while in full zerk gear.

Skills 2 and 3 are both high direct multi-target damage, the burst is no slouch on direct aoe damage, 4 and 5 provide utility, and one is ok-ish, but at least benefits by double the chances to proc effects with each shot.

Rangerdeity.5847:

thats because condis exist to counter guards and warriors that stack toughness

Same way criticals exist to eliminate eles and rangers

The rest of your post notwithstanding (because it was fine), the above claims make no sense. Condis don’t especially impact heavy classes more than light classes, and heavy classes don’t necessarily stack toughness more either (often less). Same goes for criticals for the same reasons.

It’s long been recognized that the differences in armor (not toughness) between the different classes isn’t the major factor that perhaps was intended, and that light armor classes are often the tankiest in the game due to more important factors.

Trajan.4953:

“Roaming” is not needed or wanted in WvW, and “Roamers” won’t accept that.

Scouting is needed, Camp flipping and Yak guarding is needed.

Having a cheese gank build to crap on people running back to a fight and doing a video with bad dubstep is not needed.

Even though roaming is more than just killing people running to rejoin the horde, a ganker as you’ve described contributes more to their side than the average zergling.

Cerby.1069:

ya but what does discipline really offer without fasthands in the mix?

It’s basically:
-remove immobilize with movement skills
-clear a condition on weapon swap
-always have enough adrenaline to f2.

I mean arms can replace the third thing there. sigils can replace the second thing there, or cleansing ire can, and removing immobilize is already glitchy and unreliable most of the time anyways so…..

The axe trait is now in Discipline, Heightened Reflexes is also good (I use it currently), might and adrenaline on swap is good, burst CD reduction is good, warrior sprint for movement is good (though not irreplaceable), and DotE is there if Brawler’s isn’t needed.

Even if Fast Hands was made baseline, I expect a large percentage of builds would still trait Discipline. But they wouldn’t have to, and build that didn’t may even be competitive.