Guild Wars 2

Short answer:

1. Yes, it should be done
2. No, it wouldn’t be OP nor even necessarily power creep
3. No, Discipline wouldn’t still be mandatory, but it would still be a great traitline

Assuming you have Team chat checked in the list, try deleting the comms tab that it’s on, then make a new one, and check all the boxes.

I seem to recall guild chats and others dropping out before and that being a solution that worked.

Yeah, it’s Vengeance for sure. If you use it to get up from downed state, then you have a 25% chance to clear it each time you kill something before the timer runs out.

As mentioned by Tinnel, the Discipline trait makes that a 100% chance to clear Vengeance if you kill something in time.

Lacuda.8543:

OP here. If not commanding a zerg, I usually roam. If you’re dueling on or right immediately next to an objective (skill range) then you’re not dueling right at all.
Obsidian Sanctum’s Arena was BUILT SPECIFICALLY for you guys. It’s a special place for special people where they can do what they want to their heart’s content.
If you’re dueling in open-WvW when that place is available, the only reason could be is that you’re either trying to sneak roaming in with it or you like to troll gank lowbies.

Strategically, there is no reason to allow an enemy player to live near an objective. If you were off in some corner of the map away from the roads, sentries, camps and yaks, it may be different, but when we see yak symbols constantly disappearing where the so-called “respected” duelers are doing their thing, that can’t be tolerated.

Seriously, what’s so wrong about OS or even guild arenas?

The way dueling generally works is people are roaming about, they see someone they want to duel, and it goes from there. Sometimes others stop by and join or watch. It’s a break from the usual, and it’s rarely a pre-planned event that would work in OS, or at least, hasn’t been for some time. OS wasn’t built for duels either, though it has been used for them at times.

If someone’s dueling next to an objective, you have options. You can try to kill them and see how that goes, or you could ask them to move elsewhere and explain why you think it’s a problem. Or you could leave them alone if it’s clear that they’re dueling and it’s not actually having any impact on said objectives, or anything else for that matter.

It’s extremely rare for duelers, or even people watching duelers, to gank anyone who’s walking by. Generally speaking, people are usually left alone to take sentries, kill yaks, or flip camps even if they’re right next to where duels are happening.

You mean like Dual Wielding in the Arms line? No, just like with Quickness, they don’t stack and the highest bonus prevails.

That is, unless something has changed over the years.

I don’t know why this thread is still running seeing as Jayne already summed it up with the “don’t be a kitten” rule.

Perhaps the only thing to add is that people should also remember the, “some people will be kittens” principle, and navigate through life accordingly.

The issue raised by the OP won’t be addressed through a technical fix beyond what already exists in the game.

Jayne.9251:

Again, it goes back to “don’t be a kitten.”

In fact, that works well for all things in life.

Testify, sister.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Choppy.4183:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Choppy.4183:

Malerian.8435:

1 v 1 me and I will show you how to fight lol. Just lets do it in a guild hall or OS. Cause if I were dueling in WvW I would expect to get run over by a zerg or other players. That is why it is called WvW, and not 1 v 1…

Not that it’s relevant to our conversation, but sure. When works for you and what server are you on?

Hi I’d take that offer up too

The more the merrier, I say.

i would lol though if he beat you 2v1 xD

So would I, but I don’t think that was on the table anyway. I just assumed he wanted a regular duel, and at least a couple of us are willing to oblige. If that turns into a fite nite, all the better.

@bigpapasmurf
You should join us!

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Choppy.4183:

Malerian.8435:

1 v 1 me and I will show you how to fight lol. Just lets do it in a guild hall or OS. Cause if I were dueling in WvW I would expect to get run over by a zerg or other players. That is why it is called WvW, and not 1 v 1…

Not that it’s relevant to our conversation, but sure. When works for you and what server are you on?

Hi I’d take that offer up too

The more the merrier, I say.

Malerian.8435:

1 v 1 me and I will show you how to fight lol. Just lets do it in a guild hall or OS. Cause if I were dueling in WvW I would expect to get run over by a zerg or other players. That is why it is called WvW, and not 1 v 1…

Not that it’s relevant to our conversation, but sure. When works for you and what server are you on?

So you want toughness to double counter ferocity? Lol, man, not gonna happen.

Maybe you need to learn about the magic that is dodge, if you’re running tanky and still getting blown up by power builds.

Malerian.8435:

Bring it! I welcome the hate! Your hate makes you stronger, release your hatred!

There was no hate in my post. It was merely an observation that people who try to do what you described,

1. usually fail because they don’t know how to fight,
2. later may get personally targeted by people who do know how to fight, once those people are finished dueling, and
3. sometimes get their guild implicated through association

There’s no real call for hate or kittenishness in gw2 because it’s a game. People who remember that tend to have more fun.

Except the money isn’t in the gs auto, it’s in other skills.

Malerian.8435:

I agree with OP. If I see you dueling in WvW I will kill your opponent. No question! And if you give me attitude I will ignore you and block your kitten. Got to OS or someplace that is off the beaten path at the very least. If you do not like mine or OP solution to bad. This is WvW not 1 v 1.

That’s a sure way to get your kitten beat and your guild hunted.

Also, Jayne had it right in her previous post. Basically, if everyone observes the “don’t be a kitten” rule, there’s really no problem.

Hope you’re right, because that would be awesome.

EriskRedLemur.7153:

Funny I was just in their forums and no one thinks this. But every class thinks their elite is crap right now.

You’re not the first to notice it, and it’s pretty funny. Might even be an indication that the new elites are already balanced.

You can also change course with gs5, which is less predictable than just channeling the skill. Otherwise, not sure what cancelling the skills bring… cd is still the same.

Are they stealing your stability?

Ramoth.9064:

Successful mobas definitely balance from a ceiling perspective. Which isn’t gw2 though.

How would balancing at the ceiling, specifically as it relates to top tier pvp, lead to balance in pve (which appears to be where most of the complaints are coming from)?

Moreover, how would that approach play out in Wvw from roaming to zerg play?

Finally, how would you do it for even just pvp? You’d have to balance according to roles. Is hat even what people want? I doubt it.

@Crash
I don’t think either if us are cherry picking, rather we disagree with specific aspects of each other’s positions. We’ve just highlighted those aspects.

That said, I disagree with the notion of balancing from the ceiling. Anet is balancing different priorities across different game modes at different levels of play with each class. It seems to me that they’re better off balancing around where the majority of users are interacting with their game, making allowances for the particularities of each game mode. Given that it doesn’t follow that top tier competitive balance necessarily leads to balance at lower levels in competitive and non-competitive play, balancing according to the 80-20 rule makes more sense.

I also don’t think that Anet not elevating the warrior skill ceiling has any bearing on my argument, because my argument was merely that an aspect of one small area of the game (low warrior representation at high level tournament play) has little relevance to whether a game-wide change makes sense. It’s a data point, sure, but it’s not a litmus test.

Finally, I don’t disagree that other classes also have low skill floors, especially since HoT. I’ve posted elsewhere about low risk:high reward mechanics of other classes, but it’s somewhat irrelevant to the point.

CrashTheGrey.1492:

…clear evidence that power (and even condi) berserker was already completely useless at high level play. I mean it hasn’t been used successfully in any tournaments in months

This isn’t a good measure of the class as a whole, and it’s not unusual for buffs and nerfs to be needed simultaneously.

Berserker (like core warrior, but with “moar powah”) had a relatively low skill floor, allowing people with limited skill to be effective with, and even carried by, the class for the majority of play.

It also has a relatively low skill ceiling, which means the class has less to offer at higher skill play, like driving a street level car in a race against people in higher performance machines.

Most people don’t play at the top tier level of play, so the absence of warrior from that level isn’t a good indication that a nerf isn’t warranted.

Berserker hard carried a lot of sloppy play before these last two rounds of nerfs. There’s still room for fine tuning, to make it more fluid and have a unique role, but nothing especially significant.

Note: The above is mostly in regard to wvw and pvp. In truth, I don’t understand why there’s so much pressure to be “optimal” in pve from a damage/support perspective. So, given that I don’t get that, the above may or may not apply to pve.

angvl.1238:

Never thought warriors with daggers. It doesnt feel right. Its like Conan wield dagger its ……

Conan wasn’t real, but warriors actually using daggers was.

Clownmug.8357:

It’s funny seeing history repeat itself. Everyone’s saying their main profession’s elite is terrible, just like the first HoT beta weekend. I guess if there’s another one of these weekends the devs will probably buff everything across the board. Then we’ll have a year or two of whining about the PoF power creep.

Pretty much.

Great post, Elegie.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Pretty funny that wvwers think they are > pvers lol.

Generally better in Wvw, yeah. Stands to reason really… I expect I’d be a serious liability in end game pve compared to people who spend all their time there.

Not opposed to any of it, but your change to BP isn’t going to happen. If you’re thinking it would go 10-15-20, then it doesn’t work with the new stacking approach. If you’re thinking 10-20-30, nobody would take the competing traits.

I honestly don’t think power core is in a bad place, but Berserker could stand to use some tweaks. The concept is already there, and there are a few ways to go, but it could use something to make the decision to enter primal state more worthwhile.

Don’t have to use it. Don’t have to use daggers if you do choose to use it. You won’t be useless if you choose not to use it, but whether you’d be “optimal” remains to be seen.

As for your build, if it’s working for you then it’s viable. Generally speaking, most builds are viable in open world pve. That said, you’re better off with Healing Signet, and I don’t think I’ve ever used the hounds, but racial skills are generally sub par.

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

Gandrogh.1530:

TheBravery.9615:

On another note, does anyone else see the flaw of warrior’s access to condi cleanse through this nerf? Cleansing ire is the only reliable way to deal with the condi spam meta. There needs to be more options.

Cleansing Ire has been nerfed but it is not our only way to deal with condition. Stop whinning, change/adapt your build or accept its weakness.

he said only RELIABLE, not only.

I regularly find myself in 1vx situations while roaming in wvw and I rarely trait Cleansing Ire. We do have options when it comes to condis, and more than most.

Frankly, while I agree with the notion of entering primal counting as using adren for these traits, I hope this nerf has shaken up some truly lazy play among a lot of warriors.

It would be great to see warrior gain a higher skill ceiling so that it could appear more in higher tier pvp, the easy access to cc, clears, sustain, blocks, and damage that was especially pronounced with Berserker sure carried a lot of bads and mediocre players to punch above their weight for too long.

Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485:

I believe that each trait line should be able to hold its own ground by itself. No line should be a must pick at all.
Elite specializeation should also mesh with every traitline also, and as elites it should do what it already does, change the overall feeling of the class without becoming the must pick.

Something like this?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/A-Better-Approach-to-Trait-Organization/first#post5744485

NonstickRon.8641:

I hear nothing but complaints about how hard eng is to operate with all the buttons and how it’s one of the more complicated classes. Haven’t tried one myself.

Engi can get complicated, but I just used a rifle build with elixers and Knight’s gear. It was super easy.

Orion Templar.4589:

Just curious how do we know the 5s ICD doesn’t affect the offhand effect? I agree it shouldn’t, since a 7% crit to healing only every 5s is nearly worthless. It needs to be on every crit to be of value. But just looking at the wiki I would have assumed the 5s ICD affected both mainhand and offhand.

Just based on how it’s listed. It’s a table with one row per entry, and they’ve only put a cd next to the first entry.

I made a warrior when I first started, but actually put it to the side and rolled an engineer to finish the pve story. Found it much easier, and it has both rifle and pistols, which might appeal to your wife.

You’re talking about Burst Precision, not Burst Mastery.

Weakness gives a 50% chance for your attack to be “glancing”, which means crits are indeed possible while under weakness.

It could be that all of your shots are acting as normal, and you’re just getting lucky on your first hit and unlucky on the others. Or, maybe it’s as you think, that the trait is overriding Weakness on your first hit.

My bet is that the former is working as intended and the latter would be an unintentional buff. Either way, I don’t think the intent is for the trait to deny Weakness.

Lag. That’s not what movement hacking looks like.

Mikeskies.1536:

Also, Greatsword auto attacks need a 20% damage increase, to be on par with Hammer autos…

Gs dps is already better than hammer tho…. Why would you only look at autoattacks?

I don’t see much value in it. A little bit of quickness that only applies to the beginning if a fight and is otherwise useless until you’re out of combat again? Pass.

I like it better the way it is now, tbh.

XenesisII.1540:

As a wvw veteran speaking on behalf of other wvw veterans I would like to submit a formal complaint that many many pve players have been voting in the poll, thus voiding the results.

Please restart the poll, and send an email invitation to vote on this to all legitimate wvw veterans, including the ones who have not played wvw up to 2 years ago.

Legitimate wvw veterans are those with a minimum of 1500 wvw ranks, any less than that and we risk the poll being polluted with votes from the new pve players who joined wvw recently just for the rewards system.

P.S that looks like a landslide vote to keep gliding in wvw.

kek

/15 chars howl in amusement

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

The same could be said of the giant purple beam coming from Mesmer scepter or the scepter block. Both of which are major sources of their damage but people seem to constantly fail to avoid.

I agree on Warrior/Gunflame however, that’s why I said gimmick.

Perhaps I didn’t choose the best example, but what I was trying to illustrate, is that there are a number of power builds that require far less skill management, or even brain power, to be highly rewarded. I’m a terrible Warrior and I murder people all the time with Gunflame because if I catch them with their pants down it’s a 1 shot deal. Count those dodges and bait their defences (cancelling the burst helps) and RIP them. Also works in zergs where as condition Mesmer/Thief, not so much.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the fact that WvW isn’t/isn’t going to be balanced around small scale. Everyone has the power of choice and if they choose to sentence themselves to death by fighting what they’re not prepared to, that’s on them. If they get caught off guard, so be it, it happens to all of us and it shouldn’t be the fault of the skill(s) that caused the fatality. Roaming is about the experience, not about who’s better than who in a game where your opponent can draw scissors when all you have is paper.

I promise I’m not trying to avoid the topic, I just want to clarify how I view this.

You’re not going to get any argument from me on gunflame, at least in group fights where it absolutely allows for a low risk:high reward style of play that I detest. As a warrior main, I often seek out anyone using that build in large fights to punish them for that reason.

Gunflame while roaming or in small scale (or dueling) is fair game though, imo.

As for the mesmer beam of confusion, I’ve never heard anyone complain about it and it’s obviously well telegraphed. But what people typically complain about with condi mesmer is the iterative applications from a seemingly endless supply of clones and phantasms that has, at least in the past, completely overwhelmed clears and dodges, for which power really has no equivalent.

Like I said before though, I’ve not come across particularly overpowered condi mesmers in a while, so maybe that’s not an issue anymore. I find power mesmers way more dangerous now, but still balanced, imo. Coordinating those bursts requires skill, and, conversely, skilled use of defenses can mitigate them. The condi builds most people complain about, not so much.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

No, actually, power builds in many cases are much easier.

Let me quote one of my posts from one of the many hundreds of threads complaining about conditions:

(snip)

With all due respect, I think you’re dead wrong about this.

While a gunflame warrior (for example) used to be capable of a stupidly low risk amount of cheese in some cases (and still can be, to a lesser extent), its big damage delivery is loaded into a skill that has channel time, shoots a fireball, and isn’t even accessible until the warrior looks like he’s been covered in radioactive hour sauce.

I don’t think you’d see nearly as much hate fir the broken condi builds (and I agree that not all condi is broken) if big damage was channeled into such highly telegraphed skills.

That aside, I’ve been finding condi on the small scale much more manageable since patch and don’t personally see a need to reign it in further.

Tinnel.4369:

I’m finding it quite nice. Axe/Shield GS, Strength sigils, Plate of Roasted Cactus. The trick for me is remembering to spend the dodges and not just stand in and bang. Don’t forget Stick and Move bonus, I try and open with a dodge on first contact so I’m for sure getting that bonus on first burst.

Be sure to hit (or get hit) at least once before the dodge so that you proc Reckless Dodge. If you start with the dodge, you’ll lose out on a great unblockable aoe source of damage.

Juba.8406:

Choppy.4183:

You get more mileage out of it than you do Berserker’s Power?

Huh, Dropped Berserker’s Power and never looked back.

The more 4k Reckless Dodges you make is worth it.

For me, BP wins by a mile. Then again, I have lots of Vigor uptime and use endurance food, so I don’t feel deprived on dodges. But +20% on all of my hits is just too good to pass up.

I’m not a programmer, but I’ve got to think that it would take about as much work to update and implement those armours as it would starting from scratch. After all, we don’t just have human body types anymore.

You get more mileage out of it than you do Berserker’s Power?

@Eater of Peeps
Oh, I see… they have to play with you, even if they don’t want to, because you think you’re being bullied if they’re allowed to choose not to. But it’s not bullying to exclude you by blocking you, everyone should have to do it so you can force them to play with you, and that’s more reasonable to you than solving the problem on your own? Yeah, that makes tons of sense.

Man, you’re just confirming the impression that people are choosing not to play with you because of your general attitude and sense of entitlement.

People don’t unanimously exclude quiet players from all squads in a server. Even people who don’t know how to play, build, contribute, etc. manage to find their way into some squads. Not joining TS is only a problem for some squads, and for a reason, but there are plenty who don’t require it. So that particular claim, that you’re being shut out of all squads because of it, is nonsense.

And nobody is forcing you to not play wvw. As you’ve already pointed out, you’re able to play the game even though people aren’t letting you into their squads. You also have the opportunity to party up with all of these people supposedly sending you PMs of support, and you can roam too, though you’re choosing not to.

Similarly, these other people can choose to not play with you in their squads, to not be forced to block you (along with everyone else in squad), etc.

Nice work, Chaba. Thanks for the info.

/close thread

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Whats the expense again? – we are already there playing on the same map with u for/on the same team. No forcing of any kind, in or out of squad, its the same thing – we are already forced to play together as anet intended in creating a team environment.

If u don’t like me – block me if u need a safe space. Same in or out of squad.

Trolling? I have never trolled anyone. I am upset about a problem. I was reasonable. I asked politely. I complained. That’s it.

The recourse to trollers? Block em. See above. Not a reason to exclude.

That they have to tolerate you in squad chat, and have you follow them from map to map, when they’ve evidently decided that they don’t want to.

And if the problem is as widespread as you claim, you’re effectively saying that having entire squads block you so they don’t have to put up with you is reasonable. So too with genuine trollers, who could simply flood squad chat with garbage, troll content, etc. if they wanted to, with the fix being that every person in squad block them.

The reason to exclude has already been pointed out. They don’t want to play with you. It’s up to you to figure out why and to do something about it, whether that means make amends, find people who don’t already have a negative impression of you, learning to play outside of squads or even just roaming, or finding more fun in other aspects of the game is entirely up to you.

That’s about the best you can hope for, and it’s totally within your power to make it happen.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Also, what’s the expense of others? What expense? How exactly r u hurt by my complaints?

The more you describe the situation, the more it sounds like you’ve been a pain in the ass to the point that people don’t want to play with you. That you want Anet to force them to play with you is you seeking to force yourself on those people at their expense.

I’m not personally impacted by any of it, though what you’re calling for would, once again, lead other people to thrust themselves on other squads. It would also create a great tool by which people could troll entire squads without recourse.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

LOL. Ive been silent in wvw for 2 years. Silent – no talk at all. Isnt that evidence? Idk who else to turn to but the boss at this point – the kiddies don’t seem to know how to play nice.

I impact on others’ enjoyment of the game? O, I get it – they can impact my enjoyment all day long, excluding me from squad cuz I’m deaf (yes, that was original cause for no invite – can’t be on TS) for hrs on end days on end maps on end – and I’m supposed to just go away, shut up, uninstall so u can enjoy ur game play? Um. No.

Squads have made it quite clear they don’t like me, both with vitriol and exclusionary tactics. My posts in forum are in response to what cmdrs/squad leaders did, and how squad leaders/members reacted to my initial polite inquiries/complaints.

Remember, I did not go on TC to complain until I’d already received escalating insults cuz I was persistent, asking multiple times to be let in, explaining I was deaf, explaining I had several reasons preventing me from accessing TS. Nearly instantly, I was insulted, told to shut up, told to go away, and made fun of. Also, please remember, the length of my rant on TC matched exactly the length of time the cmdr/squad monopolized the map (1 cmdr per map) and excluded me for no legit reason. The rest of the vitriolic insults came from others FIRST.

I chose to react by not slinking away or shutting up. I chose to make community aware of a problem, both on TC and here, as is my right – which Anet endorses players to do. My posts have been polite/positive, unless someone posts a nasty insult, and then I react (just like in TC). I am polite/silent unless I react to people who initiate vitriol against me.

You say that you’ve been silent for two years, but you’ve also said that you “have always been invited/allowed until just recently” and that people don’t like you.

Those statements seem to be in conflict with each other, which is why you should make some effort to find out what’s really happening rather than calling on Anet to solve your problems for you at the expense of other people.

That you’re now claiming that you’re being excluded because you’re deaf is, based on your own statements about being able to join squads until recently, people not liking you, etc., a crock of kitten. TS is no more a requirement now for squads than it has been before – some commanders require it and others don’t. Yet your claim is that no commanders let you in their squads, whereas before they did.

Anet’s not going to solve your problem here, and nor should they. It’s up to you to solve your problem and, so far, it looks like you don’t even intend to figure out what your problem actually is.

Rapr.8526:

i realy dont understand why were u even looking at somebody elses conversation tho.

Gave me something to do while he was stealthed.