Guild Wars 2

None of this is addressing what needs to happen. When the kitten are we going to have Mag-SoS-EB?

People point out the unfortunate events that led to stagnation in T5-T4. Let’s clarify this, EB had been working hard to work it’s way up. SBI was clearly not T4 or apparently even T5 material but refuses to quit to the point where they dropped down.
SoS ended up in T4 because of massive transfers, and because DB was in T3; despite ticking +500 for about 8 hours a day.

All those problems, were resolving themselves. EB had finally clawed up; KN is melting down, DB was in T2, and SoS was ~ 1 week from going to T3. The only thing that could have stopped that was EB, and if we couldn’t beat them or beat them by enough, then clearly we belonged where we were.
Keep in mind that CD has gotten a lot tougher as well, and are beastly in NA prime (for a >T2 server that is.)

Besides, if people want to talk about stagnation; then tell me why SoS and TC have been in every match together despite being first 6 places apart then 3? I have mad respect for TC and there have been times I’ve enjoyed our match(es), but it’s ran it’s course; especially as shown this week.

The system has shown that T2 is no match for any T1, and no <T2 server is match for T2 (though I want another crack at FA, in spite of this).

Every server except YB and KN has gotten a turn in the kittenbox and SBI has gotten corrected downward, is there anyone not from those servers happy about this?

AlfieStowers.4219:

A few of us have just transferred over today.. Goodluck to all, Been good so far.

I saw you this morning. Welcome to SoS!

Odinzu.9645:

I think SoS is totally stronger today than they were the previous saturdays we played and maybe that’s bc of SoR’s example or even a little bit of our own.

Not to insult CD, but this is the first time we’ve (SoS/TC) faced each other without another server that dwarfs our coverage. Make no mistake, we’re going to be a bit tougher this week; though we’re having plenty of Dragonbash/outmanned burn out skewing things.

I expect CD will step up their game later as well. They have been unusually docile and while you can blame the matchup for a lack of apetite; they are more resilient than you might think.

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Chris now you know how we felt last week when fighting SoR!

That was so frustrating. “don’t attack TC, don’t attack TC. WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING TC!” “we’re almost in Hills” “don’t care, SoR is at Garrison with +70”

and we would not get Hills and lose garrison…

Well, CD is pretty clever and knows their situation well. I expect that outside some of their aggressive thief groups, they’ll keep their eyes on the ball as much as possible.

Shazirah.8350:

To that SoS team on CD BL that attempted to ninja garrison out from under us while CD was busy putting holes in it:

That. was. hilarious.

Mad props. I almost wanted you to take it on principle, because I can only imagine the amount of satisfaction you’d have gotten from such perfectly executed cleverness!

We almost had Hills too, but I can only do so much with 7 people. Were you the guy hiding in the corner? Someone better send this guy some thank you gifts. Balls of steel, mad props!

CD, you are so hard to help. TC attacks Hills, we attack Hills and garrison falls too soon.
TC attacks your northern half, we get into the circle at Garrison, and the fight ends and they stream in.

I know you must hate us more than TC, but let’s try to get each other’s backs as much as possible.

Yeah, I’m from SoS.

I think it would be ok if we had at least 6 competitive servers; but the top tiers have been too volatile. Apparently even FA is going through some internal problems now.

It also doesn’t help that TC and DB don’t have near the capability to provide a good match to T1. Guilds continue to go to BG (and never be heard from again) and JQ and SoR have built up massive numbers for months now.

When SBI and SoS imploded, the majority of those who left ended up in Tier 1 servers (some former SoS went TC). The same is happening with FA and Kaineng now.

I have no scuttlebutt to back this up, but I think NNK will get tired of being DB’s crutch eventually and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them start shopping around.

Anyhow, I like our server how we are now and I just hope we get better matchups. My measuring stick for quality WvW is if you can head out at your normal playing time, go into WvW, and have good fights. Some won, some lost; and most decided by tactics and skill.

If this week was a cut of beef; I’d rate it as Pink Slime. LOL

TC it’s been fun, but FA is starting to suspect and we don’t want to ruin your relationship. They’ve been good to you and you know that deep down we are longing for someone else.

SoR, our matches last fall and earlier this year were great. However, we really meant it to end there. I hope you guys will not be offended when we say that we never want to see you again. LOL

Everyone, may the RNG always be in your favor and GL in your next match.

PS: If this match happens again I’ll meet any volunteers at ANET tomorrow night with a whole jumbo pack of Charmin

Congratulations SBI on a such a strong finish.

Congratulations CD! We on SoS kept telling everyone that you are a lot tougher than everyone thought and I’m so glad you keep showing everyone that.

Keep it up!

LilMcGinley.3890:

Chris.3290:

BTW, look at what happened to EU this week. I know the upper tiers are closer in skill and rank than NA but some of those matchups are insane.

I’m really hoping for some stability for this week.

How do you define stability?

Well we had two high rolls and I hope for one slightly low. Basically I’d like to “get the band back together” and face the new T3, Maguuma and KN.

Though it would be a mismatch, we never did get our fight with Ehmry Bay. We spent a lot of time wondering how we’d match up with them and I wouldn’t mind finding out before they tone down the RNG component.

I also wouldn’t fall into tears if we drew FA and no other server that is higher than them. That would be a tough fight, but I think we could manage not to embarrass ourselves.

Also, FA is close enough in ranking that if they did roflstomp us, we’d finally lose some points.

I noticed that too, I don’t think they have updated them yet.

BTW, look at what happened to EU this week. I know the upper tiers are closer in skill and rank than NA but some of those matchups are insane.

I’m really hoping for some stability for this week.

Seriously, end this thread. We have a matchup thread and end this pathetic troll attempt.

They will probably just claim that each was just setting up the other or keeping them on that map to so that the rest of the server can take all of EB, etc.

If you have an organized server community it’s best you take it up with them and get that commander “pariah” status.

Likewise, try to inform someone on the other server of this, if they are known to have any respectable guilds.

I echo McGinley, it’s nice that someone understands the system(s) and can explain why they mathematically suck.

Dayra.7405:

Would be a success of the new system: spread out of the T1-population to create more more balanced servers.
But they better spread out to all servers (not no other overpopulated serves) to avoid creating the next unbalanced match that bore them.

This does not work in practice. If a large guild were to move to say ET, (60-80 in WvW every night, dedicated); they would be bored because the enemy would just leave the map they are on. Guilds typically like to move and play as a group, so it would just be a huge karma train for them. Additionally, the enemy could swoop in as soon as they change maps and recap everything; resulting in little PPT growth.

If a low server were to get 2-3 guilds of about 30 people then they would overpower their opponents and create misery until their rating spiked high enough that they didn’t see each other much.

Remember when Kaineng stacked up. There was about 6 weeks of WvW ruined for people while they moved up.

Lastly, there is a lot of ego in T1 (not everyone and not every guild) but some actually believe that the combat is worse in lower tiers. Those folks will always stack on T1 servers and will always have “good reasons”. The truth is, people like being on top and winning.

So this won’t happen.

Those SoR folks who moonlighted, went to another T1 server and will be back on SoR tonight.

Close this thread Moderators, we already have a matchup thread for our collective QQ

Peetee.9406:

urak.4863:

Sad guild on SoR who doesn’t respect GvG, trebuchet firing at windmill destroyed, built another one under protection of Claimer on RI.

My character looks more awesome than I could have imagined.

So did my Grandpa. How was the thrift shop?

Well, let’s see what tonight brings. Which T2 server will get hot n’ steamy T1 sandwich action?
Will everyone roll a zero and be lulled into complacency?

Will SoS roll ridiculously high or low and you’ll get another week of my bad attitude?

STAY TUNED!

Khayoss.2019:

uberkingkong.8041:

Your theory only works if the servers are always constant and never changing. That is not the case with GW2 servers have issues and change often. SoS went from T1 to T3, JQ went from #1 to #3. You never know a bunch of guilds might move to ET and ET could become T1 #1 server. Like SoR but in less dramatic change. BG was #1 because a guild went there, now SoR is #1 because they have IRON that moved there. Things change, and it will never always be r3 T1 server moves to T2 and always wins, that will not ALWAYS happen.

If things never changed yes my theory would be bad, but GW2 is an ever changing game, you will always have interesting matchups if matched correctly.

Do you know how many servers have ever fought in T1? Six. From November until now (discounting October when the initial rankings were settling properly), only 6 servers have ever placed #1, #2, or #3. And each server that has been in the top 3 held its spot for significant amount of time – Jade Quarry has placed in all 3 spots, but never dropped to #4.

Servers like Kaineng who rise from the ashes because of mass transfers are few and far between. Yes, landscapes change, but not on a weekly or even monthly basis. Your idea of ever changing worlds resulting in interesting matchups is a warped sense of reality.

Quick correction, JQ did drop to #4. It was against IoJ and CD and it was a bloodbath.

Hickeroar.9734:

Chris.3290:

Hickeroar.9734:

Chris.3290:

So FA is taking it on the chin? I find that surprising given that FA had been so stable for so long. I wonder how we (SoS) would do against them without any server higher than them in the match.

We’d probably still lose, but only by a little and it would be a nice matchup, at least nicer than the one we are having. I see that TC and DB are the most likely…ughh, make it FA and Mag. That matchup would actually prove something.

If SoS’s Oceanic/SEA coverage transferred to FA…..now THAT would be interesting.

Very interesting.

I fully condone this idea. xD

Why would Oceanics abandon the Official Oceanic server? Unless you are theorizing about what affect a server with 90% of the Oceanic players in the game would have on a matchup; I find that a little offensive.

Oh relax. I had no idea there was such thing as an “official oceanic server.” FA has good NA coverage. Oceanic/SEA would make them extremely strong. I would love a T2 with FA having that kind of coverage.

Also, you may consider checking out the “official” definition of the word “official.”

You must not put in any long nights. FA actually has MORE Oceanic WvW focused guilds than SoS. I was rather shocked by their Oceanic coverage, though I remember they absorbed a lot of IoJ’s Oceanic coverage which was far from a slouch.
We certainly have more WvW coverage overall, but most of that is either a few dedicated small ops groups or TS’s massive Midnight Zerg (well, massive for us LOL).

I actually like TC and FA, on the whole. TC went from being the “RP” server that everyone laughed at to being one of the most solid servers around; balanced in all aspects of the game. You’ve always impressed me with the Zombie Coast attitude.

FA, I played there during Beta, and always have had a good opinion of them. They don’t forum warrior much, and they seem to go about their business well. More than any other server faced recently, I was amazed how efficient they use their WvW crews. FA was more annoying last week for us because they always had a scout at every gate and one following every large group.

I hate to add to this negative Nancy-fest, but I assume some ANet folks try to read through this, maybe even Devon though he has to be taking some of what has been said personally (and I’ll admit I even pointed it his way.)

I think I speak for everyone here is saying that WvW is what keeps us coming back to GW2. I’d enjoy the game if it was PvE and TPvP only; but it wouldn’t nearly as big of a thing as it is in my life without it.

ANet took a great idea, RvR, and made it better. They have gone to great lengths to create a game format that is not only visually appealing, but with layers upon layers of complexity. From the small skirmishes in lower tier battles to the massive zerg onslaughts of more populated matches; this is a complex game format.

A lot of people were unhappy with match stagnation and something needed to be changed.
To be fair, Mission Accomplished.

My server and a few others got spanked around a bit, but that’s ok. I can’t speak for others, but we learned a bit about where our strengths and weaknesses lie and we’ll be stronger for it.

However, it’s ran it’s course; there is no more useful data to be gleaned, no more score corrections that would benefit anyone.

JQ can no longer be laughed at when they say they need more people. People can stop talking about bandwagoning and DB in the same sentence. Maguuma learned that it had less reason to talk smack than it thought and several servers are free of a nightmare matchup that refused to end.
Is there anything left for anyone in facing a server that is 5 or more spots higher in the rankings?

Take this abomination, put a pillow over it’s head, and let it go away.

pot.6805:

Yeah, let us use unbalanced matchups to make claims about servers populations! That makes total sense! And yes, lots of fair weather players out. But that is how WvW works.

Actually it is worth looking at. To the outside world, JQ looked a lot closer to you; until this week.

It’s interesting because it shows that SoR’s strong points are the same as yours, while JQ’s strong points are at SoR’s weak points.

While we had plenty of “he said, she said” on the matter; we see how much IRON affected your advantage in T1 and how good FOO must be compared to DB’s SEA groups, and they help them get stuff back from SoR.

It’s actually an interesting dynamic because each T1 server has at least one time zone where they lack, but still are endangered by T2 servers with coverage in those zones.

Hickeroar.9734:

Chris.3290:

So FA is taking it on the chin? I find that surprising given that FA had been so stable for so long. I wonder how we (SoS) would do against them without any server higher than them in the match.

We’d probably still lose, but only by a little and it would be a nice matchup, at least nicer than the one we are having. I see that TC and DB are the most likely…ughh, make it FA and Mag. That matchup would actually prove something.

If SoS’s Oceanic/SEA coverage transferred to FA…..now THAT would be interesting.

Very interesting.

I fully condone this idea. xD

Why would Oceanics abandon the Official Oceanic server? Unless you are theorizing about what affect a server with 90% of the Oceanic players in the game would have on a matchup; I find that a little offensive.

That’s exactly my point, Snowreap. It is happening and the servers ARE divided by 3.

There’s also the long-term repercussions of what this will do to WvW engagement and enjoyment.
As we saw this week, BP is stomping on teams so much lower than them that they have to have a blowout win to not lose points.

I know EB is having fun this week fighting FA, and I understand that. We actually enjoyed TC and FA last week despite the disadvantage.
However, how long can you enjoy such odds? The 10-12 place servers (I’m already counting EB as 12th) have largely been spared thanks to the 9,10,11 match in it’s 2nd week; but that won’t continue. Eventually they’ll draw FA, DB, or TC.
SoS already shown it can draw #1 easily enough so Tier 2 has to constantly face DB’s current situation and T3 can face ours.

As the servers in the top half are pulled up and the servers equalize in scores, we’ll all be close enough in rating to draw SoR or BG on any given week.

Unless they close the RNG factor so that T2-T4 always end up facing each other as the 2100 club are stuck with each other for a long time to come.

Sorry, I don’t see any scenario where keeping a RNG component after this week will result in anything positive.

Mammoth.1975:

Chris.3290:

The system as it stands is just eliminating the middle tiers. It’s pushing all the T4+ servers above 1700 in rating and all the T5 and lower servers beneath 1300.

How so? For NA servers within that range, 3 are moving further from 1500, 2 are moving closer.

2 of those three are moving that way because SBI was over 1500. Now that SBI has lost 150 points, there is no way that those 2 can gain that many points again.

Already the servers in that matchup and those beneath it, will needs extremely high rolls and the higher tiered servers will need very low rolls to be matched up.

SBI is going to finish. around 1470 and EB is going to finish around 1605. EB was highly underrated and SBI was overrated so EB will only continue to go up about another 100, and SBI is still about 100 points too high.

This situation can still change at this point. If SBI, EB, and CD were to get matched up; you’d see EB and CD come a bit down and SBI move up a bit. However, Snowreap’s numbers points to that being highly unlikely.

NS is the only other server moving up, but how much more can they gain? They were upsold this week so they’ll probably break even or get low this week; which will either make them lose points or only gain slightly.

The point I’m getting at, is this is becoming a runaway situation. All the former T4 servers (EB, CD, and SoS) got upmatched at least once and (as no surprise to anyone in former T4 or T5) those servers were a lot better than they were on paper. This caused them all to have a large jump in ratings.

In two weeks, you will most likely not see any server with a rating higher than 1300 or lower than 1700; and not by much if you do.

If they lower the point range from 250 to less than 200… well 12-24 might as well be in EU as far as 1-12 are concerned.

I will add the one thing that can upset this (and I actually hope it doesn’t for the sake of their long-suffering members) is a complete implosion by Kaineng.

So FA is taking it on the chin? I find that surprising given that FA had been so stable for so long. I wonder how we (SoS) would do against them without any server higher than them in the match.

We’d probably still lose, but only by a little and it would be a nice matchup, at least nicer than the one we are having. I see that TC and DB are the most likely…ughh, make it FA and Mag. That matchup would actually prove something.

I don’t mind losing a week every once in a while if they need to increase the range or RNG values to do a shakeup. If they were to track match stagnancy between T2-T7 and adjust according to that value, then that would be a decent system.

When servers suffer a major population shift, a more random system will help end the suffering a lot sooner.

The system as it stands is just eliminating the middle tiers. It’s pushing all the T4+ servers above 1700 in rating and all the T5 and lower servers beneath 1300.

Theoretically, a change in systems should be bringing the range further in; but is creating a monumental gap between T5 and T4.

Imagine Ehmry Bay at the top of T5 in their former situation, trying to move up? It would have become mathematically impossible. Even with the random system, 500 points is outside the range….

I would have been more happy with the “reset” they had planned a while ago.

Blackjack.2083:

I know, my point is why the hell isn’t this posted in game or at least on the official forums? If the point of the new system is to more or less stop “using” tiers and start thinking of rating then why not show it in game? If we are facing off against a much more heavily populated server and definitely losing on the PPT but keeping it close our rating gain might actually be much higher then said opponent. Well it should kitten well be somewhere for all to see….“Hey guys I know it’s been a tough matchup this week vs the enemy hordes but we actually are doing very well….check out our rating gain!”.

I know our attitude on SoS is that we don’t appreciate the rating gain, because that just means our chances of another curbstomp have increased, and will increase til our rating is high enough that every match just painful.
The only thing worse than that is to face lower ranked servers (like BP is going through) and being forced to curbstomp them to prevent your rating from going down too much and finding every week is too easy.

Can someone post, for comparison; a phantasm build and then the shatter build. I’m a relative SPvP noob and I could tell you real quick if the mechanics of the phantasm build is too noob friendly.

Khayoss.2019:

I just wanted to point out that SBI is currently losing to AR (#15), and that IoJ is only 16k behind, which isn’t an insurmountable difference. Before this, Darkhaven was routinely beating IoJ, and SF was routinely pushing Darkhaven. GoM did ok against Darkhaven last week… so they can’t be too far off of IoJ either.

I’d say that the lower half has more to worry about from BP than SBI, and that any match SBI gets put in from ranks 11 all the way down to at least 20, maybe 21, is going to be a fun fight. If SBI and CD were a close bout, then there’s a few servers down there that could make for a fun fight with CD too.

I dunno what would happen in a fight between BP and CD, but I’d love to find out – and my money would be on BP. 330 people in TS on reset night? I feel like a proud papa! BP learned well and is finally arming itself to reach it’s potential!

They are only losing by about 500 points right now. I should have included AR along with BP and SBI, of course.
SBI is actually not that bad when they come out, but they have had a lot of heartache in WvW with virtually no WvW focused guilds. If some of their PvX guilds (KIWI is pretty good) came out more often; you’d see them ticking a lot higher.

I honestly think that CD would eat BP alive though. You’d never know it from the scores, but CD was tough to beat in T4. Unless BP has significant off-hours coverage, I would put 2 to 1 odds on CD.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

it’s 3rd party, but accurate.

I think we can all agree the most awesome matchup happening right now in NA is CD, YB, and KN.

That’s the one shining success story of this system.

Another matchup that would be surprisingly good would be

SoS
1. FA
2. CD

SoS has a higher Oceanic population overall, but FA has more Oceanic WvW guilds. Assuming that we spend more time fighting each other than picking on CD (big “if”);
CD can compete with either in NA prime.
I think everyone would be surprised on how tight the score of that match might be.

Is this matchup as awesome as the score suggests? I think just about everyone else is incredibly jelly right now.

For what it’s worth, go CD!

Toggles.1783:

Yeah, I was a jerk in that matchup at first, but my tone cleared up after a few weeks and some impressive plays by CD and SBI.

Besides the QQ in that first thread was toxic as no one thought it was a fair matchup after the first week.

Karnage.6749:

.

Context? who/who, what, when?

Mammoth.1975:

Give it a rest. SBI and CD were ‘taking it on the chin’ for 8 weeks under the old system, you guys get bad matchups for 2 weeks under the new one and the QQ never stops.

CD puts up a great fight in NA and actually is a decent matchup for us. SBI did get screwed over, but that’s because they refused to give up and EB couldn’t rack up enough score.

None of which has ANYTHING to do with this system or this thread. No one liked the situation that occurred in T5 and T4.

The old system worked, just slowly. I think that if they tone the RNG range to 100 points down from 250; then we’ll see some change. However, the current system is creating too much volatility and we will still see some servers out of place ratings-wise when it’s done. You’ll end up with some servers so close together that you’ll have the same matchups week after week.

Also you should look at the change in ratings. This system has destroyed the 1400-1700 range.
That means that T4 servers are going to have their stuff pushed in EVERY week.
You have sympathy for CD because of us? At least they got quality WvW in their timeslot, just see how they feel when they get regularly matched with DB, Maguuma, and FA.

You can also save your crocodile tears for SBI. They and BP are going to be routinely rofl stomping the bottom-half of servers. When they are regularly matched against IoJ, SF and GoM; no one is going to be having fun.

Again, we talk about SoS (the symptom) in context with the disease (the RNG element)

I am glad that they are going to refund, I spent a few before the AC buff and I don’t find myself on siege much. Maybe I’ll just go all out guard killer and cap camps by myself.

As long as they can no longer hit the rock outside Briar and then I think it’ll be ok. Arrow carts were always meant to be close in damage, so we’ll see how it plays out from now on.

You must have not read our forums, they had plenty of QQ. I’m sorry you hear so much about us being the posterchild of what can go wrong with the system; but I’m sure any other server in our position would be doing the same.

Considering this thread is about why the system doesn’t work, don’t you think the server that has taken it most on the chin would be over-represented?

The first week you heard a lot more complaining from the former T5 group not getting a change, and SBI got it a lot worse than SoS.

This week we’re griping about fighting a server that is 9 places higher than we were when this started, after being matched up with one 6 places higher.

It’s not just about us either. You think Maguuma liked being passed by a server it’s never faced? We’re rated higher but with the current system it could be weeks or even months before they have a chance to defend their position.

What about FC and ET? They were getting rolled already, and all this system does is guarantee that they’ll never win in WvW.

I use SoS as an example because A. I"m there and I’m biased; and B. it’s the server that has been most effected by this system.

So yeah, unless Friday we finally get servers that are closer to us in ability, we’ll continue complaining about a system that had us roll snake eyes twice in a row.

Is this yet another “let us collect badges in peace” thread?

NO, you will be shot on sight by the enemy; every time. Do you fix SPvP matches for wins?

WvW is PvP, and if an enemy sees you; you will be attacked. Given the low population in the JPs, I’m shocked that a veteran SPvP player is having problems.

Detharos.3157:

Maybe instead of worrying about the ranking system, the focus should be to motivate WvW players/guilds to transfer and even out the other servers below them.

I’m even starting to think a partial merge might be preferable, that some servers in lower rankings should be cut out from WvW entirely(FC and ET for example), and offered free transfers to a limited number of servers. (Sort of like a merge, but more limited to the players interested in WvW only.)

Let’s be honest, some servers have kind of long lost their purpose in existing when it comes to WvW. Gaining rating is great for FC and ET and all, but what’s the point of gaining rating if it will always be more of the same.

Somehow, WvW should be more actively separated from PvE also. PvE players reaping beneficial buffs from WvW player’s hard work and not contributing is garbage IMO.

PvE players inflating gem rates for transfers merely by being located on a server when 99% of players who want to transfer only do so to join a new WvW community anyways.. that’s also garbage IMO.

Maybe that’s why they did this. So they can decrease underpopulated servers without copping to a decrease in population as the cause.

I don’t think very much valuable data has been gained. SoS was underrated and JQ is worse off than their scores would indicate.

Is there anything more to be gleaned? Other than some twisted experiment to see what it takes to break a WvW population’s will to fight (I still think SoS was singled out for all the times we killed Izzy (on SBI).

morrolan.9608:

Anet just caught a break with the announcement at E3 that TESO won’t be out until Spring 2014. Personally I hope Wildstar and Archeage come out well before then.

I think they caught a break with the announcement that it’s coming out on consoles. Goodbye in depth features, hello CoD with swords.

Hickeroar.9734:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

They just introduced new PvE Content and Minis…. almost all the Maps around LA just went into Overflow on TC

Yeah, I feel that our WvW population will be somewhat….lacking…the next couple days.

ANet! Grr.

If it makes you feel better, I think SoS isn’t going to take advantage…or will we?

Seriously though, I see that IRON isn’t interested in dragon coffers, or are just really motivated to cap everything so they can get to them. +510PPT on a day new content was released? I admit, Canach was a snore; but even I took a day out to check it out.

Arenanet has picked us for some challenges, guess they smell what we got cooking

I’d like to clarify something, SoR isn’t just mindless zerging. Even we on SoS are busting up “mindless zergs” from SoR.

It’s the 40-60 man organized guilds that come up the hill that you can’t do a darn thing about. The ones that stay in tight balls and stack boons all over and have 15 or so necros just painting tower walls green with condition hate!

Most servers above T5 can field a zerg or two, but to have 1-3 large groups on the map that are coordinating and keeping good discipline… that’s what wins in T1 these days and there isn’t anything you can do about it.

Zen.8497:

Just keep in mind that SoR is trying to keep this matchup fun and not to be a blowout. There are quite a few strong guilds and/or players vacationing from wvw this week as we are trying to keep things entertaining for everyone.

And that is not making us feel any better about things.

At least RE went to TC. Not that they needed more NA, but I like TC more than many other servers.