Guild Wars 2

They can say that “tiers” no longer exist until they are blue in the face, but it doesn’t change the fact that those tiers typically held servers of a certain rating range, and that the gap between the servers were typically-wide. The only discrepancies were SoS and EB in NA (sorry, I know nothing about EU).
So T4 and T3 were close, I’m so glad that they hosed up WvW for weeks on end to prove this point. So much data to collect, they’ll need a new data warehouse to store this fact!
Who would have guess that with SoS and CD getting transfers that they could fight well in T3….

I know they said they are not going to stop this madness for a few weeks, but if they had simply moved SoS up one tier for one week (override the system, is it that hard?) They would have gotten the exact same results.

The only other things this has done was ending the bandwagoning to DB and will end people naysaying JQ when they recruit (we didn’t know they were that weak against BG).

So, to recap…This was all to help Jade Quarry’s recruitment prospects…..FML

I take exception to the “Sos doesn’t want to attack” comment there. When we have only 10 people in TS and only 20 stacked on the commander, there isn’t much to attack with when all targets are T3 and brimming with ACs and Ballista.

Anyhow, let’s move the QQ back to our thread. Even if it was TC and their BFFs at FA against SoR, this would still be a blowout.

Everyone on EB wants to take on SoS, and we really want a piece of them. ANet, please make this happen, just keep T2 and T1 out of it and we’ll be happy.

SoS
1. Mag
2. EB

I think this match would be suprisingly close as both the other two servers probably have larger NA than us, and Mag does have some off hours which would prevent the nightime roflstomps we had against CD and SBI.

Basically I think any mixture of T3-T4 would be competitive and fun. Mixing in any higher server just results in massive amounts of pain.

Of course I wouldn’t mind a SoS/Mag/FA match if we could convince Mag to 2v1 FA and then it would be an awesome tight match.

Glad to hear EB is liking their matchup, that’s how we felt about TC/FA last week. I guess we enjoyed it too much and someone tweaked our RNG range a bit higher LOL j/k

Tier 2 isn’t too bad, especially FA typically doesn’t run NA timezone monster zergs.

The fun will end if you draw TC or a Tier 1 however.

I’m hoping that SoS can draw Maguuma and EB before they end this madness. That’s one matchup that really needs to happen.

A little note to my fellow SoS folks and TC. SoR does outnumber us in the sense they can load up all maps. However, they outnumber us in terms of WvW guilds and hardcore WvW groups. They are all in TS, and they are all coordinating.

Yesterday, with a mixed group I had the honor of leading, we charged out of NW tower and defeated a much larger group of SoR, mixed guilds. TSYM rolls in about 2 min later and we’re rolled in seconds because we were a mixed bag with only 1 out of 3 people on TS.

It’s all about effectives vs combatants. those on TS and following the commander vs militia who chase thieves off cliffs.

I have no problem with movement up and down 1 tier (or 3 places, since "tier" is SO 2012).

TC kicked SoS around a lot, but at least we felt good when we were on because we felt like we could accomplish something despite their numbers.

Against SoR? We only ever get our garrison back when they go on a fractals run or lose some coordination between which mega-zerg is supposed to cap all our stuff.
Our entire PPT is based upon pity from SoR and our hardworking night folks.

The thing to be understood here, is that almost no guilds on SoS field more than 15 at any time; and those guilds (TS, ORL, FANG, etc) are expected to anchor their maps if they come on in force.
In short, there is no one available to GvG you. You’d be better off challenging us to SPvP LOL

I really think this is just an excuse to eliminate the lowest ranked servers and spread their population amongst the other servers. They save server space, etc.

Devon’s reply makes me doubt his analytic abilities, to the point where I wonder if he is completely right brain dominant.

Yes, this experiment has uncovered some interesting tidbits. JQ being that weak against BG in an essential 1 v 1 is interesting. TC is finding out how big a difference there is between #4 and what was #3 until they got one European guild.

CD is showing what SoS has known for weeks, that they are tough and not the quitters they once were. Likewise, YB and KN are probably grateful that this system came about before SoS came to T3

However, those lessons were already known by anyone who follows these things. A simple day on the forums or looking over 3 weeks of scores would clued them in. The lessons have been learned, and this system has ran its’ course.

Retire it now, because it’s killing interest for WvW in many communities. It’s a broken system and you need to fix it TODAY, not SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.

People like Devon voted for Mike McGinn (oh yeah, I went local boy there).
For those who don’t get the reference, Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn decided that to fix Seattle’s horrendous traffic; he’d simply make it worse until everyone rode bikes like himself….

Yeah, lack of foresight is in the water supply up here.

I was thinking today about this matchup and, as kittened up as it is, actually serves a purpose.
Though SoS never got to take on T3, ratings-wise we are at the head of that group (queue massive Maguuma denial in 3, 2, 1…), TC is the head of T2 (by a hair), and SoR leads in T1.

This matchup, along with FA, EB, Mag, will show everyone what the differences between the tiers are.

It shows how ridiculously a server has to overstack it’s WvW population to take #1. SoS was loaded back in it’s time, but SoS had nothing compared to what SoR, BG, and JQ have had to mutate into in order to stay competitive.

TC is no pushover, while the score from last week was lopsided due to FA/TC BFF status, they clearly have a big advantage over T3. FA is dominating EB and Mag, both servers fancied themselves as possible contenders.

SoS…well, we lost all but a handful of our WvW centric guilds (We still only have 5, with 2 having transferred recently) and we still lack NA.

All in all, this matchup system should end because everyone can see from last week to this week how the land lies.

Continuing it after this will just break the format for 75% or more of the servers out there.

TW is moonlighting on JQ? Well that would explain today, and I was about to thank SoR for “econo-sizing” their zergs so that we could have more fun battles (30 on 30 instead of 30 on 100 and so forth).

Today was a lot funner than last night, as the fights were not zerg-blob, lag, then over.

TC, sorry we were messing with you this evening on SoSBL, but we wanted to remind you how we feel when we’re pushing off a SoR zerg and you are messing around with our supply camps.
We’re also trying to remind our folks to go after Green first, but sadly we have some folks that are sore after last week. Don’t take it personally.

rhyein.6172:

Chris.3290:

TC, let’s make this 2v1; SoR is going rack up massive PvDoor points during the work week against both of us; so let’s not get up in each other’s faces so much (looking at you PINK)

TC spent almost the entire night attacking SoR in the south on SoS BL. First thing SoS does when they get garrison back is to try to take TC’s spawn tower, losing Garrison again to SoR. Don’t think PiNK is your problem.

Sorry, we’re trying to work on better communication between us. We also have a few rogue commanders as well so there will be small slip-ups; but I think most of us agree that a 2v1 against SoR will benefit TC and at keep heat off us enough that we can take a camp without 70+ SoR descending on us.

We tried to help you whenever we saw orange swords from your fights by attacking elsewhere or even flank the SoR group; but sadly you guys were having the same experiences we were in trying to hold a line. I think most of our NA crew are with this strategy.

For SoR, we aren’t going to stroke your egos by telling you how good you are; because you are. Instead I applaud your sportsmanship, as we all admit that you deliberately did not go after our two towers (you poked them a little, for fun) and did not spawn camp or any cheesiness like that.

If nothing else this week, I get to laugh at what’s happening to DB. That bandwagon effort is going to screech to a halt now.

We get TC and FA and put up a fight, we get this. Thanks to ANET’s “genius” system, if we don’t throw this match (and make no mistake, we won’t) SoR will lose points and we’ll gain, making this 3-way pit of hell all the more likely to happen again.

ArenaNet, for the 50th kitten time, run the numbers BEFORE reset and stop this kind of nonsense.
These fights are NOT interesting, and NO ONE has wondered how SoS would match up with SoR.

TC, let’s make this 2v1; SoR is going rack up massive PvDoor points during the work week against both of us; so let’s not get up in each other’s faces so much (looking at you PINK)

I know it’s easier from a coding perspective to just let the chips fall where they may at reset (and I know it’s already happened for Europe); but can you guys (ArenaNet) perhaps give everyone a few hours warning? At least in the future give everyone a peak the day of.

Just a request.

Try organizing a feint with PuGs before criticizing. I’ve found that you’ll lose, at a minimum, 10% of your group every time you go near a hard target and don’t engage.

You’ll type “we’re going to tap the door here and go on to the other tower” and at least 4-5 people will stay at that door and just spam ‘1’ for 5 minutes before they ragequit because you left them.

That’s the hardest thing in this game right now, getting people to realize that it would take a single player (if he was not molested or the door not repaired), 3 hours to take down a door. 10 people, it would still take 18 minutes, 20 = 9 min and so on.

I’ve taken a keep with 3 people before…it required monumental non-presence from the enemy and a lot of luck even still.
It took roughly an hour and a lot of supply runs. (this was back when 3 people would not trigger swords).
This is plainly impossible now so people should stop trying to do this.

Zikory.6871:

At least JQ had some humility when they were winning .

I don’t know how to explain to everyone around me why I suddenly burst out laughing.

Every server that has been #1 has thought they have been humble about it, and every single one of them was wrong.

JQ is still leagues ahead of the closest T2 competition, but your star has passed and it’s time to accept this fact with the dignity you never had when you were on top.

I’m sure it’s rough for JQ, as they were #3 or maybe #2 so many times and now see history repeating itself, as the same people who stacked HoD and SoS have now stacked BG and SoR to a point you cannot compete.

Yet, ask yourselves why you haven’t gotten transfers since SF and PRX at the end of free transfers? SF could respect you, having been in the same boat for so long, and PRX was insulted that SoS kept winning without them.

Since then? Your server is stacked, with full population and all hours coverage. You can break out your theories about WvW population vs. total population; but that’s not it.

The truth is that you ticked off so many people, that they stacked on two other servers just to take you down.

If anything, you should sit back and applaud how much effort it took to do this; but it’s about time you accept it.

Let me address this “History Channel” commander issue.

1. Soldiers in any army in history were executed if they refused to follow orders. In GW2, they can tell you to go kitten off and ignore you.

2. Soldiers drill and train for months or even years to stay in formation…and follow orders. It’s a sign of a great guild/group if they manage to stay even in shout range of a commander.

3. In historical battles, terrain was the determining factor in most battles. Elevation changes only offer a slight range advantage in this game and there are no disadvantages for fighting in “bad” terrain.

4. Pincer movements were rarely a battlefield tactic, but usually a troop movement strategy to hit an exposed flank.
Flanking movements do work in GW2, but since we do not have to form battle lines (as armies did from 500BC to 1900AD) they are not as effective.

5. There is little to no “Fog of War” in gw2. Scouting and communication is instantaneous and you can see the enemy from long distances away, even at night.
The last 3000 years of military strategy and tactics rely upon the idea that the enemy will not be able to know where all your forces are, all of the time.

WvW victory, and good commanding, is based upon: a good understanding of game mechanics, clear communications, trusting and having trusted teammates, and a “never say die” attitude.
A calm demeanor and the ability to put yourself into the shoes of others (those following you, other commanders on your side, and the opponents) are also skills that help immensely.

I just saw CD is ahead. It now looks like 2 out of the 3 former T4 servers are stronger than most of T3.

I’m proud of you guys and hope you continue to keep this up!

You three really need to stop meeting like this, you sound like an old married couple…well maybe a married polygamist family or something LOL

I feel for EB; SoS and CD went out of their way to 2v1 SBI the last week just to get you into our matchup.

I think the situation is even worse than you think though. You essentially rolled a 0. Next week you can roll a very low number ~-0.75 and face lower ranked servers that will make you lose points simply because they show up.

In the rating system, DB is moving up to #4 because they drew two enemies with smaller NA and no nighttime. Meanwhile TC is going down in points simply because SoS isn’t playing to script and dying.

Hmm, only if there was a rating system. One that didn’t have a random component that didn’t fling servers against servers with greater coverage.

One that would group servers with like scores together into tiers…hmm

Seriously, bring back the old system with a “3 strike rule” where if you take first or third for 3 weeks in a row; you move up or down regardless of rating.

It would prevent the WULD seesaw (only happening once every 3 weeks) and we’d stop seeing gross mismatches.

Done and done.

Mathemagician.1836:

Instead of doing anything messy with PPT, which I agree is unfair, I’d like to propose an alternative solution.

WvW maps that are time-gated.

So there is a NA prime-time map that is open from, I dunno, 5pm-5am EST and an Oceanic primetime map, with similar hours. That removes the “night capping” because the conflict takes place on a different set of objectives, and if you don’t have the coverage, you should lose them. Just an idea.

An innovative idea, but flawed since they’d have fewer people spreading across more maps, the BL’s and EB would still be up for grabs; and it would offer even more PPT for night heavy servers.

Please moderators,
Either move this to the appropriate sub-forum; or better yet, close it.
This issue was addressed back in beta and thrown away then.

I wish people would stop threatening us with the prospect of a bandwagon wave hitting SoS.

We love our WvW, but we have no desire to go to the black pit that T1 has become. We’d like a few more NA guilds to join to make the NA hours a little more balanced; and we wouldn’t turn around any EU or SEA folks who wanted to come to give us some padding.

Ideally, our matchup would be right here. Give us the ability to do something about those roving +60 zergs and we could do this match ad infinitum.

For us on SoS, the proof is in the pudding. We have not had queues like this since February, and it shows in the score and the fights.
For every SoS person whining, we have two more people coming out of the woodwork to put up a great fight.

Compared to our last short stay in T2, people have gotten over the obsession with our rank and rating and we’re in it for the fun now.

I can’t promise it will stay this way if this same matchup or one as equally lopsided hits us again next week, as fighting the two of you is very tiring; but for now we are glad to show everyone that we can put up a fight against overwhelming numbers.

Aurust.8961:

Im gonna call it now folks!

RE goes to SOS, DB falls apart because of server drama, they all move to SOS to take advantage of their oceanic coverage to form Bandwagon of Sorrow…..

In all seriousness, i believe SOS would be the best fit atm for a NA guild.

While we are looking for a few more NA guilds on SoS, please keep the current DB drama on DB!

We went to a lot of trouble to build a stable and friendly community. Please stay away if you are a fairweather or demand reverence from other guilds on Day 1.

We rode the mass transfer train once, and are not getting on those tracks again.

If RE or anyone else is thinking about joining us, please do so because you are looking for a permanent home and want to work with a great bunch of people.

Stay away if you are on some sort of trashtalking EgoQuest.

Honestly, I didn’t know we (SoS) were this strong. I mean, I know we have great Oceanic guilds and that our NA fights well above what our numbers suggest; but this is amazing.

For all the folks from our server who poo-pooed this mismatch, I have to say I haven’t seen this many people playing WvW since we were in T1.

I think a lot of it is who we are facing as much as the challenge. TC and FA got to where they are by never say die attitudes. Neither server was blessed with large block transfers (though they have done alright in this regard over the last 2 months) but stayed competitive by simply staying tough.

We’re not going to shame ourselves by not doing the same. We will continue to come at you, using new strategies, constantly probing for weaknesses; and we will be all over you every time one of you blinks.
We aren’t going to win, but we aren’t going to make it easy either.

Remember, the Sea of Sorrows will pull you under the waves if you ever stop paddling.

You’d never tell from the forums but I’ve found that FA and TC to a slightly lesser degree, have conducted themselves well on the field, with bowing after good fights and such.

That being said, I wish you two would mix it up a little. I know we look like PPT hanging low on the vine, but I thought it was a little cheap that FA BL was pure green while Blue was upgrading keeps on our map.

Of course we would have never flipped TC’s garrison yesterday if you were so I guess you can carry on with your Plan A.

Guildchat is going through a little bit of a depressed period, but we’re all a little let down (for the record, we all thoroughly recognize that SBI is worse off). However, he’s in the minority. This match is a wake-up call from 6+ weeks of screwing around in WvW and letting our night crew clean up our messes.

I think the biggest thing sticking in my craw is CD’s performance against two T3 servers (it’s clear that T4 is not as far from T3 as it was when DB was there). I really wanted to face Maguuma and it’s clear that if they had just shifted servers for one week alone that everyone in NA kittens would have gotten the fight they wanted. T5,T4, and T3 would have been epic battles!

As for SoS’s match, as much as I hate losing; I’m having fun. We aren’t wasting money upgrading crap that will flip eventually, and some of the stunts we’ve pulled against TC have been awesome!

Given that TC are simply throwing numbers at us, and FA daytime is underwhelming, I think we’ve put in a good showing and should continue to do so.

Sympathies to SBI, you deserved a better matchup.

NA came close to where it should have been.

There were only 4 problems in the matchups. T1 and T5 didn’t change, SoS ended up in T2, and SBI ended up in T3.

All they had to do was make a few changes from the last match to create different matches and make everyone happier.
T1: SoR, BG, TC (let them have a shot at the big time)
T2: DB, FA, JQ (because DB and JQ have bad blood
T3: Mag, KN, SoS
T4: YB,CD, EB
T5: SBI, BP, AR

And there, no one would be complaining. Yes, TC would have had a bad week but they should see what’s above them. JQ would take T2 by a lot, but FA and DB need to see what T1 looks like as well.

So there you have it, what COULD have been the best week of WvW in the NA in months!

synk.6907:

CD’r here, wishing the fine folks of SoS luck and fun this week. Maybe it’ll be more entertaining for you all now that you’re free of the months of stomping us and SBI. Remember us fondly as you meet new enemies in battle!

As badly as this system has failed us, having us take DB’s spot in T2’s rondo, SBI got the shorter straw.

I feel good about the fights we’ve had, but FA and TC coverage and numbers are insane. They have enough people to defend two keeps, attack a third, and track our groups on just one BL.

No Urrid, TC will be with JQ and DB and you’ll have +695 all week because they’ll all be on the forums trashtalking each other.

Enjoy the week off, LOL.

I know in the Glicko Samurai culture that these words are heresy, but I’d rather go down in rating from doing the honorable thing, than maintaining our rating by kicking the dog.

Yes, that could end up exacerbating the situation the following week (facing two underpowered servers); but I honestly don’t think the casual population will ignore the lower pop server and will sort that out on their own.

If you get hit with the RNG stick, just pick one supply camp, ring it with siege and troll all night.
On SoS we did this when we lost most of our people and were severely outmanned on night. So many badges and so much fun!

So crush the T7 server and send them to T8 so they can have a lopsided win the next week?

I’m not saying hands-off, but traditionally when you have this situation, it turns into a land-grab by the other two servers on who can faceplant the third the most. Usually you end up with manned ballistas at the exit doors of their citadel.

I’m just saying leave the odd man out’s BL to PuGs or small groups. Don’t send your mega-zergs.

I’m sure this will breakdown as the week goes on but I propose that everyone make an effort to not “pick on the run” in a lopsided matchup.

In EU we have a T7 with two T3’s; and I’m sure at least one match in NA will have a similar situation or maybe multiple.

If you have a situation where one of the servers is more than 2 tiers beneath yours; just go make it a 1 on 1.

Of course this will breakdown, and it won’t last; however everyone should make an effort to not kill the entire week for the odd man out.

If you want to go on their BL, bring alts or run in small groups etc. Don’t just roflstomp and crow about it on the forums.

I kinda wish we had the option to face ourselves, it would be a great scrimmage and the best server-wide training ever!

lunyboy.8672:

kitten .2746:

I hope this trainwreck extends to the NA reset, it sounds like fun.

Agreed, all this strange WvW randomness, it’s like a snow day where nothing counts and everyone has fun.

You blew my mind. Seriously, I should not be serious about this at all. If you get the short straw and face a server 2 or more tiers higher…time to break out the ruminant tonics!

At least you won’t have to waste any money on upgrading SMC, right?

Back on topic, like a soldier who comes home from a war we didn’t agree with; we should still thank Devon and his team for their hard work.

Whether or not you agree with the system, and I’m not sure I do; you can appreciate they are making changes and seeing what works and what does not. I have no doubt that they can reverse the changes if this becomes a disaster….you made a backup, right Devon? LOL

On SoS we’ll be happy either way. CD has gotten stronger and EBay will join us if we don’t get RNG in NA.

If we do, the odds are against us in a match with SBI so maybe they will get a break.

So Devon, and don’t take this as any slight against him, just posted that they have no idea how the rankings will play out….

One of the things I hope they would/will do is that if they get a rare 3 tier mismatch (ie CD vs JQ vs Darkhaven) that they would hit “re-roll” to make sure that no such abusive matches occur.

I’m stoked for this match, with ORL proving to be a great addition and FoE back in the fold, I’m no longer worried about any of the T3 servers (not saying it will be easy, but it will be a closer matchup).

Now if we just avoid the T2 folks, this could prove to be a good thing.

SBI has had some true Moments of Awesome during this match. I fear that AR and BP will feel as if they have traded one monster for another by this time next week.

I’m also stoked for Ebay. They have weeks of pent-up frustration and in my experience, servers moving up a tier never gun for Blue. SoS BL is going to be a madhouse and I’m going to love every minute of it!

Welcome back!
It always bugged me losing you guys, and I’m glad you are here again.

I don’t know about other servers, but on SoS we generally know most commanders in WvW and people follow the names they know. Additionally, we work very well as a community and go out of our way not to “usurp authority” from a commander already on a map.

There have been conflicts, but generally people recognize the names and the guild tags of the groups that get stuff done.

I see a lot of Darkhaven people complaining about this, I think you folks should talk to each other and try to get your alliance together. If those of you really into WvW agree to a short list of commanders, it will show in-game and people will follow the commanders who deliver. Our server has their guilds list their commanders and guild leaders so you know who you are dealing with, and who to talk to if they are being detrimental to the cause.
Just some ideas.

Grieve.1432:

Oh, and per usual there should be a fight night tonight, 6pm Server Time, on SBI BL at the usual location.

Yes, make sure you finish up on time so I can get the usual panic call at 7:30pm “CD is attacking Bay”

I second Le Rooster. We’re masters of the “5 guys just took Hills” tactics.

I don’t know what people are complaining about, I got an ascended trinket from my first chest. I’m sure that greens and maybe rares will be much more common, I think it’s better than what we had.

I just feel bad for those who were on Kaineng through this whole business. They win the transfer lottery, wreck WvW for so many servers on the slow crawl to the top; only to have their fickle Ace-In-The-Hole pack up yet again, after free transfers had ended.

A cautionary tale for those who are thinking about transferring. Transfer to a place you fit; not for a position, rank, or the myth that higher tier = better play.

Ahh CD, every time this match we go to attack a different BL; we get frantic calls saying you are attacking Bay…again.

Yes, it was kinda a jerk move to take your keeps on SBI BL while you were defending garrison; but it was worth it to cap the lord right as the SBI ultra-zerg entered the inner keep.

Also, something for us and SBI to note. When the East Coast logs off, CD gets REALLY paranoid on their BL. You so much as tap a supply camp, the largest zergs they have lose their minds!

In short, it was a great night in WvW for all 3 servers (at one point or another).