I can’t count the number of times I popped a SR over someones head to save them and save the team from death, or been the last survivor that takes out the boss etc. Thief has a good amount of utility but lacks some of the group buffs other classes have. I think with speed runs, thief is at a bit of a disadvantage. In Speed Runs, people in theory need to be rescued less because the content has been mastered. So then IT becomes more about classes that can sustain High DPS while take trash damage, or providing some sort of protection or buff to maximize damage.
But lets be honest the Dungeons become far too easy. Even Fractals becomes trivial.
I believe a great deal of thief’s usefulness depends on the level of difficulty for the group. So for speed runs, don’t expect to be meta per se, unless there is a part that remains difficult or a part that you can help a group skip with SR etc.
Also note that a good thief can deal out good sustain damage but has to work at it a bit harder. I know some people think Damage meters would be detrimental, but it would be fun to see some of the faces that frowned having a thief in their party, then seeing the numbers.
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I jumped off an edge with the magic carpet yesterday and the hang gliding model kicks right in when you hold the jump button. I could be wrong but it seems like it wouldn’t be to hard to code a little part that tells the game to keep the magic carpet model on while gliding.
if they were glider skins your character models would still do a weird pose on them
I’m Pretty Sure they could simply add the physics to them and keep the model for each.
Would be awesome, and I mean awesome if they gave the glide ability to Magic carpet and Broom.
Finally my magic carpet will be a little more magical!
Please Anet, Make this Happen!
immunity to reveal while standing inside of it.
That’s actually a really good idea.
That sounds delicious! Great Idea.
Ive Run D/D physical since release and I eat D/P for Breakfast even when the perma stealth was very much a thing. Do I have to work hard to keep close to my enemy, yes.
Ive come to believe that the D/D set is much more reliant on your utilities. While D/P is a bit more self sufficient 1 through 5 skill.
As for D/P getting nerfed…I must say it is annoying fighting a D/P Thief. But then again so is a S/D kittenets the fight. But S/D has been in and out of the lime light while D/P has always been the “Go To” weapon set for many. I think D/P feels a bit more cheesy. But this game is full of cheese sooo…
If the true problem has been with D/P then Ya, Nerf It. I changed my mind a bit reflecting on this issue. I don’t D/P that often but remember the easyness factor of using #3 For Closing the gap, the sense of security that black powder brings both from blinding and easily accessible stealth. The Question would be how do you nerf it without destroying it? I would Love to see a bunch of D/P S/D D/D, heck even S/P.
There was a time when D/P and S/D were 50/50 pop. even just having 2 major builds was nice instead of everyone and their mother running d/p.
Offer a gem option, that way people can grind for elite specs. Here are some pricing suggestions.
Unlock 1 Elite Spec 2000 gems. That’s exactly half of what HoT Costs.
Does not unlock HoT area, no Hang Gliders, just elite spec for one class.
This would be great for people who wont buy HoT because they only PvP.
Also Great for People who Only Play One Class. Those who buy hot still get their money’s worth. 25 bucks for one elite spec.
Just say that people, who bought GW2 and don’t buy HoT doesn’t get theirs elite specialisations for standard classes.
So, yeah, there are really p2w for them, cos pvp closed for them…As I said, there is no MMORPG in existence that allows people to still be competitive unless they buy an expansion.
Please tell me how I can be competitive in WoW without buying legion.
Is that P2W? Nope.
Dark Soul 2 you can be competitive without the DLC.
BnS seems to be pretty fair, capping arenas at a certain level.
Planetside 2 is a mmo with many cash shop options and yet F2P can eventually get the same upgrades.
Team Fortress 2
Chivalry
So Pay To Win is really gross, Just because you play horrible hamster wheel entitlement games in the past doesn’t make GW2 some rare gem. Don’t get me wrong it has awesome mechanics, but it does indeed have a P2W model. So people are mmorpg vets. I feel bad for you but just because many mmorpg companies have implemented p2w in a “cash shop” doesn’t mean that a “cash shop” is the only way p2w manifests itself.
Pay 2 Win = Any time an existing game offers an Item, Class, Profession, Ability, Buff that can only be bought with real money, gives a clear advantage, and is able to be used with the rest of the community that is still only using the core game or less bought content.
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You want us to have to create another acronym? BETW?
Buy Expansion To Win? ROFL I’m sorry if some of us weren’t foolish enough to
unload money into cash shop to compete like in other games. Just because that is heinous, doesn’t mean GW2 is completely removed from the concept. Open your minds. Think about the English meaning of the words PAY TO WIN.
Buy Expansion To Win = Pay To Win.
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
No, thats a copout and rather lame extension of fact.
Pay to win requires you to buy something within the game, such as the TP or other outside of the cost of the game… having the current version of the game does not meet that definition.
This is too funny. Do you Win By Paying For HOT? YES!!
Are you gonna be the genius who tries to say Paying so I can WIN is not the same things as Pay To WIN? Please, delineate those statements.
It doesn’t make any sense when you think of it as a skill by itself. But when you consider how much stealth it gives you then you come to realize why getting knocked out has a penalty. It is one of those trade off skills. If your worried about getting hit out , instead of leaving throw some well placed dodges in there or go to the safest edge and only bail if you absolutely have to.
It doesn’t make any sense when you think of it as a skill by itself. But when you consider how much stealth it gives you then you come to realize why leaving it has a penalty.
To be fair sometimes its weapon set balance people really mean and not class balance. Should be noted that the thief world should not revolve around D/P. But when people claim Thief needs buffs they should consider if its a weapon set issue or a class issue. (or a l2p issue)
How the HELL is this game Pay to Win? Did any of those idiots EVER play ANY OTHER MMORPG that was EVER made? This game is SOOO far from being Pay to Win. It’s one of the fairest cash shops I’ve ever seen.
As if “cash shop” is the only way for it to be Pay To Win lol. Put HoT inside a “cash shop” in your head. Try To imagine… Mind Blown?
Ask Yourself these questions.
Did you Pay for HoT? Yes
Does It Help You Win? Yes
Pay To Win
If you have to buy an OP sword with real cash in another game…
Does it help you win? Yes
Did you Pay for It? Yes
Pay to Win.
How does a company Make their Game NOT pay to win?
answer: BALANCE. Note Perfect Balance is not Needed or Expected Just REASONABLY BALANCED.
Do you feel entitled because you bought a product early in its release cycle? Do you think its simply about money , because it isn’t.
Everybody and their mother thought that HOT elites would be “side grades” and not “upgrades”.
The Axiom is IF the elite specs are more viable than the core specs then the game is Pay to Win. You can whip out references to what pay to win means but it is semantically bullet proof because you cannot misunderstand what Pay To Win means to the human species. You Pay for HOT and therefor you win or have a better chance at winning.
I think everybody is willing to understand that HoT had to be bright and shiny for the masses to want to buy it. However, the longer that the elite specs remain OP, the more valid an argument can be made that it is indeed Pay 2 Win. Even if its not entirely 100 percent accurate; for instance, a core class can win an elite class more frequently, it still is to a certain degree Pay To Win if the majority of elite specs can win core classes while not being as skilled as their opponents.
Nobody expects perfect balance. Everybody should expect a fair shake against every other profession.
Once we start seeing more balance and more than a couple of core classes being able to consistenty beat elite specs with skill being the determining factor, then we could start laying to rest the Pay to Win insinuations. Until then, the writing is on the wall. Whether your a loyalist or feel entitled or some other reason, please consider what a healthy game looks like.
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I think the consensus thus far is that DD>Acro but thats not my concern. My concern is that they are similar enough that you would always pick one over the other.
So the solution to this would be to give acro something beneficial not as close to the same benefits as DD line.
Does that make sense or are they different enough to want to trait acro instead?
It is P2W. Doesn’t matter if it is in the form of a Op sword or an XPAC. Think carefully “Pay to Win”. Just because it usually manifests itself in item shop does not mean P2W is absent from other methods. The Elite Specs are better than the Core Specs. To Get Elite Specs you need to PAY. This is simple logic.
You use it as a gap closer. I remember people complaining about when I HS spam to close the gap but they already lost most of their health, they are running away, and it is the only gap closer for D/D set. Am I supposed to let them escape?
I just find it funny when people complain about this skill. The question is , what did you do wrong to blow all your dodges, your health, and abilities that would detour me from using HS more than once?
Do people still complain about this? I haven’t played much pvp after June Patch.
That dude is the soccer mom, calculus nerd type of play that expects no positional play because he likes to sit there and play card game style. The type that think its only about rock vs paper and strategy and not about hand eye coordination. Thief has always been one of the classes that require more skill. And its little calculus nerds like this guy who cant aim a mouse and move his character artfully around that have helped ruin this game from all their qq. Go play wow, join a guild, join a raid then you can talk about all the statistics. They will love you because you play a healer and stand in one spot and heal and talk about statistics.
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You absolutely right OP. People are trying to say its different than p2w but its not. It just hasn’t manifested itself in the form of armors or weapons that its not P2W. It doesn’t matter if its an item continually in a shop or an xpac. If The Elite Specs Continue To Be More Powerful than core classes, It will be Pay To Win.
Which is ludicrous because I believe many of us thought that these elite specs would be “side grades” and not “UP Grades”. I wanted variety not Upgrades from core gw2.
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Working as intended, There is a ton of junk in this game. I guess its that way so you buy extra slots. With the green sigils I just vendor them. It gets quite easy just work it to where all your junk sigils will be clickable one after the other in quick succession.
D/D just needs to be brought in line with D/P and D/P doesn’t need a nerf.
I have noticed more younger players in SPVP along with newer players. Has this also affected Team balance in matchmaking? It just dawned on me that the vanilla game is free and thus an influx of No-Income players.
I was bored so I thought Id throw out some ideas.
Arbiter- power 1050 Precision 1050 Vitality 500 Healing 500.
Vengeance- power 1050 Ferocity 1050 Vitality 500 toughness 500
Gatekeeper- 1050 Toughness 1050 power 500 Vitality 500 Precision
Pandemic- 1050 condition, 1050 vitality, 500 precision, 500 power.
Plague- 1200 condition, 1050 precision, 500 vitailty.
Amazing Amulet- 500 power, 500 Ferocity, Disables All Passives and Invulns of yours and your enemies.
Mirror Amulet- Minus -500 Hp, +1000 Power, +700 Ferocity. Mirror Cast: Hit your Target With this and you both become The same class with the same stats. The Class you become is random. Thief vs Thief, Guard Vs Guard Etc.
Incognito Amulet Minus – 500hp 100 power 700 ferocity, Activate to Pretend to be another class and on the opposing team.
I would like to see some changes to D/D.
I like how many say CnD needs blind added by default.
Maybe making CnD baseline 4s stealth as it is traited with SA.
One of the reasons I believe D/P is favored over D/D is D/D number 3 does very little in terms of physical attack damage or utility. Increasing the Physical attack might make that skill worth using or perhaps simply adding a cc condition to it. Immobilize might work with it very well. If you are facing your opponent and you Death BLossom you can float to their other side but they wont be able to get away right away so it sets you up for a CnD>backstab. They even lowered the baseline condi damage in a previous patch when u dont spec into it so Death blossom could be potentially useful for both Physical specs and Condition Specs without being too good for both specs at the same time.
D/P is a great gap closer and since D/D isnt, give us a little power to keep enemies closer via cc as an alternative to D/P’s shadowshot.
But something like DeathBlossom with cc might be too op depending on the cc and how it applies, and how much it applies.
Perhaps death blossom out of stealth only applies a cc.
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Any clue? Months? A Year?
I fear that all of the try hards that played other easy/op stuff flood back to thief.
I doubt it. It’s just like when mesmer mantras were broken: bad mesmers would just get rekt by good mesmers.
The only thing I fear is Acro being viable and every bad thief playing the passive invuln. I don’t know who at Anet thinks that passive invuln are fun, but this has to stop.
Well the fact almost every class has some form of access to invuln, it’s only fair that Anet gives it to Thief too.
Yeah that’s the short term answer but looking at how passives have messed this game up, I would rather all classes lose most of their passives. The ideal situation would be that when a character makes too many mistakes they have to pay for them. Less “get out of jail for free” mechanics equals more skilled play.
This was the obviously easier solution for Anet to implement, and I am happy that we at least got that, but its also a dream of mine to rid the game of most passives and have game play revolve more around skilled combat.
If you’re succeeding 2v1, blowing cooldowns, dodges, etc. for the 2v1, and someone comes in for a gank and kills you, then you lost fairly.
I don’t know what to tell you other than to react faster and pay attention to the map more if you can’t handle getting jumped as it is.
Who said I needed advice… lol I never had a problem with thieves as a thief ever. I am just Theorizing a potential problem. Not a problem for me mind u but in general. ROFL.
Thanks though
What would be the next best Choice? I was thinking maybe
Valk + Toughness Runes
I haven’t played for many months. Any advice against the elite specs and Rev?
I really hope not all those people who complained about thief and switched classes come back now… Wouldnt like matches full of thieves at all.
I’ll give you one guess what all those Eles and Mesmers are gonna reroll to…..
Guys Guys Guys Thief has always been the highest skill requirement for a class. They might try to reroll thief but they will get rekt and have no choice but to keep complaining about thieves.
What does concern me is Thief vs Thief lasting 2 seconds lol.
It already does assuming one is better than the other.
If it’s a balanced match, the fights will extend longer (unless one lags, but that’s a whole other issue with teleports and latency issues :P). The unskilled ones I play against die in under a second. The skilled ones will fight tooth and nail for what can be minutes on end.
Well historically yeah a less skilled person can get melted pretty quick thief v thief. Im just saying with thief lower hp and sustainability… quick ganks will probably be more viable this patch and even low skilled guys can kill higher skilled guys with a lucky gank. Throw in the fact that many situations are not 1v1 environment. I’m just wondering how quick the ganking will be thief vs thief. Just thinking about the luck factor. I know myself when I take on two Guards at once this next patch I don’t want a little trouble maker thief stealing my glorious 2v1 from me. Of Course there’s enough damage to go around with the other classes as well.
As long as there is enough time to react to a would be ganker.
IN many games there is a TTK sweet spot where skill matters most depening on the TTK. Sometimes a quick TTK means its a matter of who sees who first and is less skilled and more based on luck.
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I really hope not all those people who complained about thief and switched classes come back now… Wouldnt like matches full of thieves at all.
I’ll give you one guess what all those Eles and Mesmers are gonna reroll to…..
Guys Guys Guys Thief has always been the highest skill requirement for a class. They might try to reroll thief but they will get rekt and have no choice but to keep complaining about thieves.
What does concern me is Thief vs Thief lasting 2 seconds lol.
Well other than being meta anyways.
Just a FYI, this is someone who hasn’t played a whole ton of ELE, but let me describe you my take on it, and perhaps you can give me some insight.
When I first saw ele, I saw all the abilities and thought that all those abilities would translate nice into real time tactics. For exampole “this enemy is using this ability and him doing that , that means i should use my number 5 skill, switch to lightning and do this” Things like thast simply dont seem prevelant, for all the attune variety, there seems to be little counter play and strategy mixed in.
What I do see is ROTATIONS. And yes you can mess up rotations but its the same thing over and over again. There are some exceptions it seems but those exceptions are not that important it seems.
So do you see where I am coming from . I admit I dont have that much experience on ele, but for all its abilities you have to use, it seems to be boring and yet keeps you busy at the same time. Am I wrong?
Are you that same mesmer guy who is about to get the nerf hammer?
Pro Tip. Bind your abilities to keys and use your mouse to help move around and position your self.
Mesmers have been in a better spot for much longer than thief. I’ve played at launch and I cant remember a single time that the mesmer wasnt at the very least “ok” and “viable”.
Thief On the other hand was in a bad spot before the june patch, pretty bad after the june patch, and down right trash tier for HOT.
I dont remember a significant phase in time where having a single mesmer was avoided.
These kinda salty tears make me think its people who love being over powered and try to exaggerate the Mesmer nerf or its the people that move and turn with their wasd keys and point and click their utility abilities.
Seriously wait for the patch to actually be out before you cry an ocean of salt. You know what a thief would do? A thief that would hear about a nerf would be like “alright im going to go in and give this patch a shot, maybe I can still be viable.” And us thieves have been doing that with such a bleak barrage of nerfs. Youvve been living large and you finally get a nerf and its the end of the world LMAOLMAOLMAO.
Its like the aristocrat child who has been living the spoiled life and their daddy got a pay cut at work. AWWWW!
So What if it SOUNDS BAD. Tie in the Amulet changes along with the other class changes and you never know. Its just theory. Take a deep breath, give it a go, and if it is truly too much, then let us pray that they adjust it a little bit before the long wait for the next balance cycle.
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How about instead…
Marked For Death : Your next attack will immediately kill someone if it would have put them in a downed state. 8 second active 1/2 activate time 40 second cool down.
With all the invulns in combination with dodging, it would be fun and yet not to powerful. i fyou miss the attack then your done.
Make it 40s so it will have the quickest elite cool down and be handy for elite proc abilties, tie it to one of our existing categories of skills for the skill type buff. Probably Signet.
I’m still a little reluctant, but I just might reinstall the game to check out the balance patch. 3 of my character slots are thieves. I bought this game at launch and have really only liked the thief class.
I would wait to see what the feedback is like but I have been able to compete against meta builds with my own builds in the past. So it might be back to the theory crafting table, spending hours attacking the bots in the mists and finally testing it out on the servers.
Cross your fingers.
I think I just Solved a lot of the problem with D/D Thief: Add a quick invulnerability to conditions when a successful CnD hits. I like this idea because it is a reward for stepping into someones deadly aoe condition field. If they dodge your CND then you could be screwed. There is counter play both in dodging the CnD and also setting your condi aoe fields and then stun, immob the thief since he didnt land a CnD.
Now it could work to where it isn’t a complete wipe of existing conditions but stops the condi stacking/spamming for a brief moment in time.
in fact this route would be the easier route to balance rather than reworking all the classes, we could simply have one extra benefit attached to each weapon set for thief.
for D/P it wouldnt be shadow shot most likely due to being able to spam it. Black powder could have a condi invuln or removal instead.
There are many counters here
1. Thief runs out of initiative.
2. Dodging these abilities
3. set up aoe field then trap with cc before thief can use his condi invuln attack.
4. Revealed negates any of these invulnerable abilities.
But this would allow thief to pop in and sustain long enough to have a fighting chance. The time of invuln is key here as too much would be annoying to fight to little would not be worth it. I think this would atleast work for D/D thief considering how hard it is to land CnD compared to other abilities.
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How is it tin foil hat worthy if EA has done something very similar? E.A. Made The DLC for a Game during initial development and charged for the “extra” content at a later date.
But HOT could be a mixture of before and after GW2 initial release.
The business model was done with the lord of the rings trilogy and I believe the new star wars films.
I.E. Save money by developing multiple selling items at the same time.
It makes me wonder If Anet pulled an EA and Made HOT before GW2 came out. It wouldn’t be the first time a company did something like this. IS there a way we could find out?
What if the balancing issues are due to everything being worked on only In the initial development stage. Then they pretend they have class balance teams working but its really just a skeleton crew of Public Relations employees.
Perhaps they had a balance cycle release plan, planning for multiple years in the future.
This would allow them to hire a very light crew after the initial developmental stage, maximizing profits.
The lack of listening to the players makes me think this is possible, at-least in part.
“If your team has zero ele, just switch to one yourself.
It’s not like tempest is any hard to play.”
translation
“Lets perpetuate bad balancing philosophy by not speaking up and simply giving in to the system”
I don’t think players actually want to have a winning 1v1 matchup for every class. Just that they feel the need to whine for a class they perceive as weak. And that for some reason or another that whining usually takes the form of 1v1 complaints.
Also I’ve actually watched your stream, and will likely be picking up HoT because I want to try the DD build you run. From my impression the build was strong, and you definitely did the job you set out to do very well. But I’m from my limited viewing and experience with HoT it seems like other classes are able to do the job(s) they set out to do even better. If I had too I guess I would put it as: “This looks like it should be meta, but I don’t think it is because other things are just better at the moment?”
Actually I’m kinda curious how you deal with condi-clear. Because it seems as if your build would have problems with condi’s. Didn’t get to watch enough to see if you do have problems with condi’s though or tell how you dealt with it if you didn’t.
I won’t deny that playing thief in the current meta is not easy, but neither was playing a proper shatter mesmer pre all trait buffs before HoT etc. Same goes for if you played necro way back in the days.
The only condiclear source I have is dash against chill and then signet/shadowstep. Most of the gameplay comes from knowing when to engage and not to engage, including how to manage blind against revs as an example.
But yes you are very right with “This looks like it should be meta, but I don’t think it is because other things are just better at the moment?”
Thief is high risk and not enough reward at the moment compared to other classes, but there is no doubt in my mind I could see thief comp work, hell i’d even be interested in bringing back thief/shatter mesmer
This Sounds Like You Received A Bonus From ANET. But Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. IF Tourney’s are not somewhat balanced 1v1, then whats the point? Look at nearly every sport in existence; In Basketball the guard goes up against the center, the center has height, the guard has speed and ball handling. They both have strengths but it is anybodies game. and yet it is a team dependent game. You cannot simply negate the importance of 1v1.
Look at nearly every Tourney Video Game in History
Jedi Knight II: notice how the announcer says “Darthnut has cornered Obiwub whats going to happen folks this could get exciting” and DOES NOT SAY “Darthunut has cornered Obiwub, darthnut is a Force Lightning user which means Obiwub is dead”
This is like elementary. The concept is you make balanced, skill-driven combat, and then those individuals come together and work as a team. Most every sport and esport seems to grasp this while ANET doesn’t or doesn’t care.
Think about it even if things are not perfectly balance you always here something like this. “Jeff is at an disadvantage here, but ITS STILL POSSIBLE”
Seriously what kinda Kool-Aid Are people drinking? People need to wake up.
I call it being a smart consumer. Nothing confrontational or aggressive about his post. And withholding his money won’t have any effect? In the aggregate it sure will because he’s not alone. And there’s no guarantee that spending more money on the expansion or in the gem store will result in anything he wants from the game.
You can’t buy balance, so you can’t really be a balance consumer, can you?
If someone decided to boycott the gem store because of questionable microtransaction decisions from Anet, say for example their recent trend of bundling stuff together instead of selling it separately, then I’d understand – and Anet would clearly see that too.
But this simply makes zero sense and has zero impact on the pvp situation. It’s like boycotting oranges because you don’t like carrots – yes they’re both orange, but they have literally nothing else in common.
Want to boycott PvP? Don’t play PvP. It’s as simple as that.
Anet can very clearly see the pvp numbers and will notice.And if a guy inciting a boycott isn’t confrontational, I don’t know what is.
I will tell you why it makes sense; A company that has complete control over the selling environment is going to collect as much relevant statistics as possible.
I’m almost certain they can see if profit dips from those who main a thief for example. This is a money making machine. There is also psychology behind it. Trust me, they will be able to see developing trends in spending.
If they get away with a kitten unbalanced pvp they win. Because they got more money for less effort. However if you are smart consumers you will demand more for your money. Its this tug of war. Although anet still probably has passionate people that love games working for them, there will always be a business model that tries to get the most money for the least amount of work.
But you can demand more. We can join together and demand higher quality.
You wanna know why so many AAA titles suck or come out buggy or are not content rich… or are unbalanced? It is because people throw money at companies with pre orders ..when you give money to a company that has problems, you only help continue those problems. You only help their habbit. If they make money, why change anything?
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For any Thieves, Warriors(or any other) that still put money into this game while anet seems to crush our dreams of a reasonably balanced experience in PvP need to STOP Spending Money. What Really Pushes Anet into balancing?
The answer is money. Money talks; it speaks louder than any balance thread.
That is why we need to vote with our wallets. I want everyone who realizes the lack of balance to pledge right now not to give anet another dime till they start making reasonable decisions in the balancing department.
I think he could probably give Karl some advice. WoW has had balance issues, what game doesn’t? Maybe these two could meet. Maybe a Face book or Twitter convo atleast. Ill try to find out who it is and make it happen.
I’ve mained thief since the beginning. In fact, 3 of my 5 slots are thieves and I haved leveled two of them to 80. You obviously don’t understand. What I am getting at is decapping and +1-ing is not a legitimate reason to play a class in pvp. Why would you want to hold onto something that has been anets excuse to make thief weak in 1v1?
Something as crazy as nerfing decapping/mobility might finally help anet wake up to the reality that thief is in a bad spot. Perhaps they see people still using thief because of capping/decapping and mobility and think everything is fine as long as some are using thief. I never bought the game to play capping wars. Actually, you cant even call it war, its mostly running from point a to b and if its contested run or +1. I bought the game to be a ninja and kick butt.
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Anet, please nerf thief’s decapping/capping and map roaming abilities. That way this cant be used as a terrible excuse for playing the class. All we ask for is a fair shake against other classes.
So lets nerf thieves in this way because true thieves at heart don’t play the class to decap and +1.
Sorry but pvp isn’t using shortbow 5. Everybody wants to test their abilities against other classes in a fair and reasonably balanced manner.
This criticism I believe is constructive and I am serious. If you take down this post, then I have to assume that you fear the content in it. Not because of disrespect or being rude, but because of some other intent, perhaps to silence those who simply want a reasonably balanced game.
Thankyou
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Ninjas, Rogues, Infiltrators, Thieves: It seems that I am always drawn to the stealth assassin class. No matter What game, if there is this kind of class, I am always drawn to it.
My MMORPG experience, like many, started with WoW. I Ran a Rogue up to LVL 70. Although my favorite fictional abilities were Ninja type characters, I never played a rogue and experienced the mechanics until I played WoW.(Well I played games like ninja gaiden, but not any mmorpgs)
There was something special about the Rogue. While other classes were staying in the same spot a lot; channeling abilities, and just pushing buttons, the Rogue Had Positional Play. It felt as though the Back Stab was the only real-time or action rpg ability in the game. everything else felt more like a statistic Or RnG.
I soon realized that I wasn’t much of an MMORPG Fan, but more of a Stealth/Ninja Mechanics Fan. Or perhaps I felt a longing to have a RPG type game that implemented the mechanics of Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.
I remember thieves getting a lot of hate. One thing about Guilds in Wow, they were very social places. So there was a lot of expressed opinions at the time. I happen to remember what type of people complained about the rogues the most: It was the soccer moms and calculus nerds: The casuals that sat in the back of the raid and healed or were all about “team” play.
But I never played Thief to gank the weak. I liked the mechanics. And one of the crucial reasons I liked the mechanic was that I could stealth… not to pray on the weak, but to pass the main battle line of brainless casual masses and find a fair fight.
The stealth mechanic is so wonderful at avoiding the zerg. It lets me do what I desire to do most. 1v1. And if anybody ever tells you game wasn’t balanced off of 1v1 its about team play etc…. It’s a lie perpetuated buy soccer moms and calculus nerds who would never play street fighter.
Wow had a dueling mechanic built in. Dueling is fun and a test of skill. Some people want to test their skill, some people want to test their teaming abilities, and others want to test both.
Never the less Wow suffered from balance issues and I became disinterested still dreaming of a street fighter type balance in a mmorpg game.
A long while after I was introduced to Guild Wars 2. I bought into the hype about dodging and more skill based game play. I bought the game and began testing my abilities in training thinking “wow so many cool abilities and weapon options.” When you first play with all these toys you may come to the conclusion “play your way” I imagined using trip wires swapping weps all the time and this artistic intricate combat.
It turned out that many skills just added a tiny bit of flavor and didn’t really effect game play.
That was okay because at least there was the dodge mechanic. I enjoyed a build that seemed better than the meta. I could run d/d and beat d/p which was the meta for quite some time.
Then something happened. dodge became less important, all these passive junk abilities started popping up. and thief faded into the shadows of obscurity. But you all know that story.
Where was I to find fair and engaging ninja type game play? Luckily at around the same time I started playing another game: Planetside 2
What is great about Planetside 2 you might ask? Every class can kill every other class. Heavy Assault is arguably the most OP class, but skill seems to play a more important roll then GW2 ever did. You might think that since PS2 is a FPS that aiming plays a roll and is not a fair comparison…. Well Folks…. dodging in guild wars 2 used to play a more important roll. dodging is a timing and coordination ability: making it one of the most skill based moves in the game.
So i have found a game I like, but I am still hoping for the mmorpg that delivers a quality reasonably balanced pvp.
I think Arena Net Should Allow More Character Variables to be Altered in Custom Arenas. It would allow for infinite field testing without costing ArenaNet anything except for the amount to set this up.
People then Could have duels against other classes, and tweak things till it feels about right. Instead of Anet employees theory crafting class balance, which is what, less than 50 people total and even less per class? We could instead have thousands of testers and experimenters. All that data, and the suggestions of a sort of MLG type panel could help us in creating the most balanced game.
I guarantee some players will be able to achieve better balance across the board.