Guild Wars 2

nekretaal.6485:

Seriously, don’t try to roam with a necromancer, but if you do, lich form might be better than plague for a small scale fight. You have no business roaming on a slow class that can’t escape.

Actually, as a class that can destroy camps quickly as both condi and power, you very much have business roaming. Also, a WvW Necro in 1v1 is really quite strong. Some of the more meta Thief/Mesmer builds can be difficult to fight, but even dying in some 1v1s every once in a while doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be roaming.

And if you ARE roaming, I highly recommend Plague form, not Lich. Lich is incredibly easy to counter, while Plague allows you to actually get a stomp off without putting points into FitG. With the coming and going of randoms in and out of fights, guaranteeing a stomp then buying some time for your cooldowns with blind-spam on another intruder is extremely good.

I was actually disappointed when I realized they didn’t use their new Resistance boon for Berserker Stance. Heck, I thought that was part of the reason why they added Resistance, so they could give the stance counter-play.

Anchoku.8142:

Neither of you have a qualifying sig. :p

Haha oh, are you talking about the “we know ANet listens to Necros because Revenants” quote in sigs?

My one thing with Moa is that it’s also a very long counter (180 seconds default), and with a one-second cast time, it’s very dodgeable. If you use it to counter a transform, then that’s it’s sole purpose, and I’m not sure I have a problem with that idea at all.

bhagwad.4281:

Damage wise, does it make more sense to take deathly perception instead of dhuum? I just tried out deathly and with so many condi clears in the game, getting the damage out and up front might be a better bet than otherwise…

What do you think?

I’ve wanted to do this math for a long while now. Prot uptime and Armor should be factored in as well, but even just a basic Crits vs. Burn damage comparison is something I’ve been too lazy to do yet.

I don’t really care about the Revenant class. Why is this in the Necromancer forum?

Bhawb.7408:

“Its a beta” – ANet
“OMG WHY ISN’T THIS PROFESSION PERFECT” – testers

And we wonder why they don’t come on the forums.

Can we be friends? I like the cut of your jib.

Necromancer feels like a really well-designed and fun class to me. All of the other classes are at fault for having extreme instant mobility, instant damage, high stealth, high evade/invuln/blind/block spam, etc. With Necro you get cast times that are dodgeable, you have counter-play to avoid their life force generation abilities, slower damaging condition application for an actual “attrition” style, etc.

I think it just might be one of the few things that really feels good. That just makes it feel bad.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Cogbyrn.7283:

I get that we’re dealing with an MMO, so the playerbase involved is more progression-oriented. However, I’d argue that progression doesn’t make a game more fun. If anything, it takes away from the game, since it’s very easy to focus on the carrot and not the enjoyment of getting it. Then when you get it, what happens? You look for another carrot. If there isn’t one, you don’t feel like playing. Progression is self-destructive, like an addiction, requiring more and more rewards to keep people hooked.

What should get you hooked in a PvP game is the competition, otherwise people will just leave, and any progression you add will have a quick boost of people that don’t actually care about the game.

I think it’s part of the reason why PvP will probably never stick in an MMO. People don’t have the right attitudes to make it stick.

EDIT – And look at FPSes of late. If I’m not mistaken, Call of Duty and Battlefield both employ level-up mechanics and progression to allow people to earn new guns, new skins, new abilities. I remember the moment I decided I didn’t want to play Battlefield 3. I jumped into a jet, took off, then realized I didn’t have any counter-measures, because my jet flying wasn’t a high enough level.

What a load of bs. Progression in pvp isnt just carrot on a stick. It is mmr leaderboards and in game tournaments. It is competition where you can work to improve yourself. That is what successful pvp games give. This game has none of that so no point playing.

I’d label an MMR system as a competitive system. There’s no tangible reward, you just are rated higher when you perform better relative to your opponents. A progression system involves some tangible goal you’re striving towards.

I’m all for competitive systems for PvP.

@bhagwad: none of this has anything to do with you, actually. I’m not sad because you enjoy what you enjoy. I’m sad because I personally don’t enjoy progression in my PvP games, but it keeps surfacing everywhere. Rewards are a low-hanging fruit to get people to play/keep playing your game, but they are shallow and unfulfilling to me. So I want ANet to focus their time and effort on something that isn’t progression-based, because they have limited amounts of time.

Also, I thought ranks did a number on the quality of games because people would go out of their way to, for example, sit on nodes when only 1 person has to stay. They rewarded rank points for bad tactics. So, yes, you could argue that certain types of progression could change someone’s playstyle.

And if you want to get personal about it, yes, they can do whatever they want in the game, because they’re free spirits and no one can hold them down. However, I am also a free spirit, and I want to avoid playing with people who would sacrifice the game to get a few progression points. It’s like if you are playing chess against someone, and they just throw their pieces away repeatedly for no reason. You ask why, and they say “If I finish 100 games, I can get a new chess set, so I’m just trying to finish as quickly as possible”. They are free to do that, and I’m free to think that it ruins the spirit of the game.

bhagwad.4281:

I don’t think anyone in the world is stopping you from getting your rush. And I don’t think you – or anyone else – should tell others what their sole reason to PvP should be.

“You can’t have it as your sole reason” – why not? How does it affect you? It doesn’t. Live and let live. You play for your reasons. I’ll play for mine. You don’t get to dictate why other people should play.

I’m just sharing my opinion. I don’t think progression-based PvP is a sustainable solution for a competitive environment. Even if they gave you the option to farm for legendaries, once you got your legendaries, you’d want something else to progress towards.

I don’t think progression is a flawed game design thing. I enjoy it from time to time. I’m just personally sad to see how it has inserted itself into everything anywhere as an addictive little mechanic that gets you playing the game for the progression, not for the game.

EDIT – At this point, if they took away rewards, the PvP community would probably diminish. But who would leave? Those who are only there for rewards and don’t care about the competitive spirit? Maybe the PvP community would be better for it, but it might become too small and make it more difficult to find games. It’s a slippery slope.

ANet could have probably made sPvP F2P, used an MMR system for the queues, and generally enabled a more competition-centric design instead of progression-centric. If I’m not mistaken, in DOTA 2, you only have your MMR. There are no titles, no fancy borders, no MMR-gated skins. There’s just the thrill of fighting other people and becoming a better player. Those aren’t the only reasons the game is successful, but you need a competitive foundation if you’re going to go eSport. Not a progression-based foundation.

At the end of the day, as long as they keep gear normalized in sPvP, I’ll be happy. I just really don’t think progression is tenable for maintaining a competitive PvP environment.

And yes, this is all just my opinion. I thought we were sharing opinions, and in this case, I think ANet could be better served utilizing their development hours enhancing the competition instead of the progression. It isn’t just about us not letting you enjoy what you enjoy, because you can freely enjoy it. At this point it’s about design direction for the game, what is best for the game, and that’s an interesting topic for discussion.

You don’t have to take it all so personally.

@Leodon: I appreciate the sentiment, because I very often think I must be the crazy one these days. Not nearly as bad as the Age of Conan forums, though.

I get that we’re dealing with an MMO, so the playerbase involved is more progression-oriented. However, I’d argue that progression doesn’t make a game more fun. If anything, it takes away from the game, since it’s very easy to focus on the carrot and not the enjoyment of getting it. Then when you get it, what happens? You look for another carrot. If there isn’t one, you don’t feel like playing. Progression is self-destructive, like an addiction, requiring more and more rewards to keep people hooked.

What should get you hooked in a PvP game is the competition, otherwise people will just leave, and any progression you add will have a quick boost of people that don’t actually care about the game.

I think it’s part of the reason why PvP will probably never stick in an MMO. People don’t have the right attitudes to make it stick.

EDIT – And look at FPSes of late. If I’m not mistaken, Call of Duty and Battlefield both employ level-up mechanics and progression to allow people to earn new guns, new skins, new abilities. I remember the moment I decided I didn’t want to play Battlefield 3. I jumped into a jet, took off, then realized I didn’t have any counter-measures, because my jet flying wasn’t a high enough level.

Covis.6037:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Do people not want to win because of the joy of competition anymore? Like, anyone anywhere? Always with needing rewards (material or recognition) to be incentivized to partake in the thrill of a competitive activity.

play a game for 3 years. play it without any rewards. play it without any real progression. play it daily.

I played Counter-Strike for 5 years straight. I played for the fun of it. I never leveled up, earned new guns, gained new traits, played in any leagues (though I almost joined one of the newbie CAL leagues), or anything like that.

Years and years of the same maps, the same guns, the same everything.

It just surprises me how people can’t just do something for the enjoyment of doing it anymore. Everything always has to have a level up mechanic, or some arbitrary point-accumulation, or titles or skins or etc.

I feel like an old man, wondering why all the kids these days can’t just enjoy their time playing with plastic toys, with their new-fangled gadgets and gizmos and flashy lights.

Do people not want to win because of the joy of competition anymore? Like, anyone anywhere? Always with needing rewards (material or recognition) to be incentivized to partake in the thrill of a competitive activity.

I agree that a lack of desire to compete for the sake of competition, regardless of reward, is keeping the PvP experience down.

echo.2053:

lol don’t live in the past such a cute statement <3. Until this patch mesmer had been exactly the same since game launch, what do you mean that you couldnt remember hitting single button to put a few conditions on a mesmer and /laugh as they helpessly keeled over from zero sustainability?

im rather interested on how your been fairing aginst teefs the entire time youve been playing the game as well, prolly not so well because of blinds and stealth huh XD

don’t get me wrong id love to see pu and torch get comepletely removed as they are just a crutch

Actually, I’m mostly here to watch s/tPvP balance discussions happen, and weigh in here and there when people seem to make logical gaffes. I’ve been a WvW solo roamer since the dawn of my GW2 time, first as a Warrior and then as a Power Necro. PU-plexity Mesmers out in the open world, and D/P Thieves in particular (though one D/D Thief knew exactly how to fight a Necro, and it felt impossible to deal with his patience) were always rough. I think Stealth is a poorly designed mechanic, or at least the way they give it to certain classes is poorly designed, but Stealth discussions often fall to the wayside when it comes to s/tPvP balance. And rightfully so.

I don’t want Mesmers to be underpowered. I’m not even sure that they’re overpowered. I just understand where people are coming from when they get frustrated, because it’s just blind after block after huge shatter damage after stealth after invuln after stealth after invuln. With dodging in there as well, the window of opportunity seems really, really slim.

Not that it isn’t there. I’m sure it is. Delay long enough and cooldowns run out, then you can apply appropriate pressure. But if that takes 16+ seconds of surviving to start to pull off, that seems a bit extreme.

I’m mostly thinking out loud, if you can’t tell. Mesmers really might be fine. Even Burning might be fine, while class access is what needs the fix. I just like to challenge people to see how they respond, as a solid argument can withstand scrutiny. Jasher started that argument very nicely.

Toxsa.2701:

Cogbyrn.7283:

They care about competition, they practice, and they don’t waste so much time hoping ANet balances the game for them.

I know nothing about them, but I am pretty confident in those three things. Everyone is so quick to say the skill cap is low, but a team dominates all others. Maybe there’s something to the game?

That’s why they’d test out the most broken classes/traits combination and take them because they know Anet is horrible at balancing this game. They know they’d have advantages if they find those broken stuffs and use them.

They also know Anet is slow at balancing, and has extreme favoritism to certain classes, that they can abuse those stuffs as long as they want and Anet wouldn’t care a single bit for 2 years.

That’s fine. They’re playing to win. People who play MOBAs don’t stick with a hero who takes a hard fall just because they like the hero. They play to win.

Honestly, the biggest failing of PvP in this game is attachment to classes/characters. It helps get people dedicated to a class to try to even up balance, but if you want to be competitive, you need to be flexible based on the state of the game.

They care about competition, they practice, and they don’t waste so much time hoping ANet balances the game for them.

I know nothing about them, but I am pretty confident in those three things. Everyone is so quick to say the skill cap is low, but a team dominates all others. Maybe there’s something to the game?

uhohhotdog.3598:

So when guardians or warriors have 2 on a team everything is fine but when it’s a Mesmer it’s now broken?

Were you not around when everyone complained about Warriors forever? Or are you just choosing to forget those times?

No, other “2 of X on every team” situations weren’t OK. No one ever said they were.

echo.2053:

you mean after almost 3 years of rolling over mesmers players have to be told how to fight them? The same way its always been condi spam, hard counter teef, or pressuring mesmer to make a mistake.

I don’t live in the past. Sometimes changes occur in a game that alter the dynamic, and when a class emerges that appears very strong, it’s healthy to have a conversation about their weaknesses, especially if they are difficult to find. Also especially when the community won’t stop complaining about them. If you can’t have a good, honest conversation about weaknesses, maybe there’s a problem?

It took about 1-2 fights for me to see why everyone is up in arms. In one fight in particular, the Mesmer made a few clones, went into stealth within a second or two. I was stunned/immob’d out of stealth, shattered and blinded, and the Mesmer used Sword #2 to be invulnerable. A few seconds later the Mesmer went back into Stealth. The iZerker popped out (which doesn’t remove stealth, I believe), then more damage landed, a clone or two were created and the invuln shatter was used. I was blinded, the Mesmer was invulnerable again. A few seconds later, a bit after the invuln dropped, the Mesmer disappeared again. I honestly don’t remember if it was a blink up to a different level or of it was more stealth.

Over the course of about 16-20 seconds, I had maybe 1-2 solid seconds of actual opportunity to land abilities. By that time, the Mesmer could attempt another Shatter combo, which blinds, leaves the Mesmer invulnerable while slashing, and does thousands of damage.

Do I think Mesmers need to be changed because of it? No. Honestly, I was observing more than fighting, and I need more fights under my belt to get a feel for the cadence of the fight, when to use what abilities, etc. However, it felt pretty silly.

@Jasher: I appreciate the honest response. I’m a little skeptical about the difficulty of landing successful shatters, but this is probably a level of play thing. For the bottom 80%, I think leading with a free Mantra stun into a shatter combo almost guarantees it, which is part of the issue now.

The blinds, blocks, duration of stealths, power of shatters, and multiple invulnerabilities make me wonder more about the windows of opportunity to land anything (even condis, to which they are weak). When you play a class, you’re much more familiar with when you’re weak and when you aren’t, and maybe it’ll help people understand that there are more windows to strike than they think.

So:

1. Switch health pools.
2. Overhaul each class to accommodate health pool switch.

I can’t say that I’m a fan, just because it would take too much work and isn’t a feasible change that would be made at this point.

Jasher.6580:

Mesmers are in a good spot right now. I disagree that they got overbuffed. They have multiple counters and a number of glaring weakness’ to offset whatever you think is overpowered.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Would you mind having an open discussion about the glaring weaknesses?

EDIT – I’m intrigued why you would link that video, as after watching it, this seems more like a case of the developer not balancing for skill properly.

akaCryptic.2389:

Sagat.3285:

They should add a stun breaker corruption that applies chill baseline and fear traited.

Stunbreak to fear yourself… Yeah I see the synergy. But arent we famous for not having any?

See, the synergy is when you trait MoC and Reaper’s Protection. With Terror, you can manually trigger an additional fear in an AoE on command, increasing your fear chain.

Honestly, I’m worried that it’s TOO strong. It probably needs a Terror nerf to go with it.

jportell.2197:

Morwath.9817:

jportell.2197:

Morwath.9817:

jportell.2197:

Morwath.9817:

SlayerSixx.5763:

They bring ONE mesmer and suddenly the class needs a nerf xD? We can’t count helseth’s squad either, since the man is an amazing mesmer with or without buffs.

Reminder: oRNG (team who used to play without Mesmer at all in the past) has won ESL in last week with double Mesmer comp.

WHERE IS THE LINK TO THIS DOUBLE MESMER GAMEPLAY?!

I honestly want to know. In the ESL that I watched they had Frostball playing for Rom, and Rom btw will never play mesmer because he is one of those one class only players.

How many times you will ask about it and how many times I will have to link it once again? ;P

-> http://www.twitch.tv/jebrounity/v/6857511

P.S.
Frostball isn’t playing instead of Rom.

So my question, the whole time teams were playing with two eles, that was totally balanced right?

Yeah thought not.

Obviously it wasn’t, never said that ‘Ele was fine’ or that ‘Ele is fine’.

Yeah it was, by several players several times. And it took until this most recent patch to actually fix that boring as hell meta.

Is the 1-2 Mesmer Meta exciting as hell because it’s the class you play?

And misdirection of the discussion to some other class is what Thieves do. Don’t sink to that level. All it really does is demonstrate you don’t have an argument besides “But look over there”.

If Ele isn’t fine, it doesn’t mean Mesmer is fine.

Terrorsquad.4802:

SlayerSixx.5763:

They bring ONE mesmer and suddenly the class needs a nerf xD? We can’t count helseth’s squad either, since the man is an amazing mesmer with or without buffs.

Ehh no, every team brings 1 or even 2 mesmers, obviously something is wrong.

What other classes are the same across every team?

I actually really enjoy my Necromancer. I love the interaction with Shroud, I love corrupting boons, I love condition management, I love soft-CC, I love some of the power combos (not just immob→well), I love that I can switch between power and condi and feel strong both ways, I love the aesthetic (it only gets better to me with GS), and I’m looking forward to Reaper.

However, I don’t love blindly, and I think ANet has made some intensely questionable decisions recently. When I watched a Warrior GS Rush away with Chill on, I legit had a sinking feeling, like they took away my ability to potentially keep someone in a fight. And the Chilling Darkness change RKO’d the trait out of nowhere.

I love the class, but that doesn’t mean stupid things haven’t happened recently.

But if you use all the other Corruption abilities first, then Consume Conditions, you’ll totally get more healing and only be left with Vulnerability and Blind. Fair trade, considering the phenomenal cosmic power.

For some reason I had forgotten that an ICD makes it so AoEs only apply the effect to a single person.

What an incredibly extra-awful trait this now is.

I also was under the impression that Deathly Chill was going to tick damage over time like Terror.

Also, even if each application of Chill ticked for 1000 damage, Plague Form would potentially have done 1000 damage per second to 5 people at a time. With a heal used, and no other regen-dodging taken into consideration, odds are that wouldn’t even kill anyone, let alone wipe an entire zerg.

AND, if Well of Darkness applied 10 seconds of chill (5 ticks of 2 seconds per tick), and each tick hit for 500 damage (throwing a number out there based on ultra-rough mind-math after looking at the two Wiki pages for Terror and Chill and extrapolating based on what I’ve seen Terror get up to with condi damage), you’d end up doing 5000 damage and applying blind once per second for 5 seconds. Would that really be OP? Doesn’t Purging Flames do 5000ish damage over 5 seconds with just a few traits, in addition to removing condis in an AoE and reducing condi duration for allies in the AoE?

Why can’t we have nice things, exactly?

I really can’t help but think that they have been meaning to do this for a while, but it took a backseat until its story in their PM flow made it onto the track while they try to figure out what to do with some of the other issues people are voicing concerns about.

Even with all of the complaining I’ve seen, I don’t think Burning is too far off from being fine. Remove a stack here and there, maybe adjust duration a bit to compensate, and it’s much less of a deal. With Mesmers I can’t comment, because I honestly don’t know the class well.

However, it’s insane to me that this seemed too strong to them, even with other pulsing blinds coming down the pipeline. Yes, it is strong, but why can’t it be? Chilling Darkness already competes with Plague Sending, the auto-play condi transfer that also converts boons and gives might (if traited). So, we can’t pulse a few additional seconds of Chill in an AoE when we build for it?

And if Bitter Chill is the reason, then nerf Bitter Chill. Give it a few-second ICD so vuln stacking doesn’t get outrageous.

With any other classes, does it seem like a Rube Goldberg of traiting/execution is formulated, and they pick a spot in the middle of it to ripple out nerfs? Chilling Darkness has existed forever. I’ve used it in WvW for a while when nothing else piqued my fancy. They create Bitter Chill, they create another blind-pulsing ability for their Expansion content, and then they go back and nerf Chilling Darkness because apparently that is the issue here?

Where is the “extreme case” balancing for some of the other classes out there?

I wasn’t even using the trait, personally, but the missing logic is what keeps killing me about it.

It might have something to do with them being concerned people would complain that their longer duration Chills would be removed by the short-duration pulsing chill, reducing the overall duration of the Chill on target. But again. Extreme case balancing for a situation that just doesn’t sound reasonable. It’s already going to be moderately dangerous stacking a lot of Chill on a target since it converts into Resistance.

The only reason it irritates me is because I just don’t understand. I don’t even mind the vulnerability on Consume Conditions, even if I think the logic for that is completely flawed as well. This just came swinging right out of left field.

cephalo.3974:

it’s not only about PvP … this trait was quite used for CC in WvW zerg with the well of darkness… which become useless in the same time ….

And if they’re balancing around ZvZ fights in WvW, and they started with this, I’ll put on a kitten suit and lock myself in a chest.

Ratphink.4751:

Heaven forbid our Elite actually be worthy of the slot.

This is actually my favorite argument against the nerf so far. Why exactly can’t Plague Form be strong, instead of “situationally OK, sort of”?

Morwath.9817:

Sagat.3285:

Morwath.9817:

Aomine.5012:

So the inevitable Taunt nerf has come, and rather quickly.
They even add internal CD on traits I never really bother to pick anyway lol…
Oh LotF would never be picked by any none SB spec ever, and SB is still a crap weapon.
(10% increased duration for 4 secs on dodge lol , while other classes get 30%~100% constant condition duraiton)

Necro has +150% on Scepter and it’s still unplayable ;-(

There is only 1 curses GM trait for PvP anyway sooo..

My mistake: it’s +100% duration, +150 was condi damage. Anyway Weakening Shroud is more potent…

Part of the problem is also that the 100% duration for Scepter in that trait doesn’t apply to Scepter 2. So it’s just autos.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nekretaal.6485:

First, stacks that did something are being replaced with stacks that do nothing. This is a nerf.

Second, I used path of corruption to remove a Resistence yesterday (there isn’t a lot of Resistence now but there will be soon). Today, I’ll get two stacks of chill (the extra stack does nothing) instead of an extra 2 seconds of chill. That’s a nerf.

No, you get the extra 2 seconds of Chill. I have no clue how people are reading that as “Chill stacks intensity now and only goes to 5” instead of “Chill caps at 5 stacks for duration.”

Seriously, why the hell does everyone forget how condition stacking actually works just because Burning and Poison changed?

Do you remember when Ferocity was introduced, and no one anywhere could do math? This is kind of like that, I think.

I don’t think any Necro’s ability to stack Chill is going to be noticeably affected, based on a quick test I ran on a golem.

How many ticks of the Chill were you guys getting from WoD before anyway? The nerf makes absolutely no sense, since short-duration chill stacks seem to drop off and allow others anyway.

But are we just getting up in arms to get up in arms? Maybe being able to constantly tick Blind and Chill together in Plague form was something they didn’t want in the game anymore? If anything I’m surprised it took this long, because that combo is intensely strong. Even if it isn’t being actively complained about.

I’d wager a guess and say that change has been in their backlog and just surfaced at a seemingly weird time.

Dhuumfire: Fixed in the buff direction
Mark of Evasion: Fixed in the QoL direction
Unholy Martyr: Unchanged (clarification)
Plague: Buffed so Condi players won’t kill themselves anymore (seems significant)
Consume Conditions: Buffed
Vampiric Presence: Fixed in the nerf direction (probably not a big deal)
Last Rites: Nerfed
Chilling Darkness: Nerfed confusingly

The change to Chilling Darkness is really weird to me, but otherwise it looks like mostly buffs.

Are we really going to sit around blind to the positive changes that were made, because we lost a couple extra ticks of chill on Well of Darkness? I tried to get more than 5 sources of chill into a single build and had difficulty, because I wanted to test if it keeps track of individual “stacks” of duration dropping off to allow more on for continuous chill. I don’t see how this was an issue anywhere ever, but I also don’t see how it’s a real problem.

With Grenth runes, I just stacked chill up to 20 seconds on a Heavy golem, cycling through a bunch of Chill abilities. Every time I used a Chill, it applied successfully.

I really don’t know how much affect the chill mechanic change is going to have. If any.

Ever.

Welp, based on the patch notes, this is fixed. Along with a number of other little changes.

I’m actually impressed by the breadth of things they addressed in this patch.

I’ve been playing around with Lingering Curse, and I had a weird feeling like my bleeds were dropping faster than I would have expected just toying around with the golems. I started systematically testing all of the abilities, and the 100% increased condi duration on Scepter abilities doesn’t seem to apply to Grasping Dead. Even though the tooltip will say 16 seconds on bleed and 10 seconds on Cripple, they actually last for 8 and 5 respectively. The autos seem to benefit properly.

Did I already miss a thread about this? Is it a weird sPvP lobby issue? Could anyone else confirm?

Aomine.5012:

phokus.8934:

Godmoney.2048:

Good players adapt. Bad players whine.

This right here. This is what this patch is all about. Every post about nerfing x,y,z is from bad players who don’t know how to adapt and just smash buttons with their tongue.

No. “Good players” adapt the most abusive and broken traits/classes to exploit so they can stay “good”, while “bad players” cry for balance and let Anet hear their wrath and makes the balance comes true.

Considering how players have been whining on the forums since the game released, I don’t think these “bad players” are doing a very good job of making the balance come true.

If someone in Chess chooses to use a weak opener that sacrifices position, while their opponent uses a typical, well-known strong opener, is it valid for the player who chose to be in a weaker position to claim the other is being carried by his opener?

If winning is so important to you, why would you create an arbitrary code of honor around what is “cheese” and what is “skill”? Find what wins and win.

It isn’t rude to disagree.

manveruppd.7601:

It does man, I tested it many times. I played 8 matches last night with PS and the transfer missed for no apparent reason at least once every match.
If you’re trying to test it on a golem, it’s not enough to just be facing away from it when you cast. If you do that it will work anyway. You need to be stunned or immobilised or otherwise UNABLE TO TURN TO FACE your target for it to fail.

Every time I tried using it with my back turned to the Warrior-bot, after he CC’d me, it transferred conditions even if my back was turned.

I’ll keep playing around with it, but it must be a very specific situation if it’s bugged. Either way, it technically does transfer regardless of the direction you’re facing, so if it doesn’t in a particular scenario, it’s just bugged. It isn’t that it specifically requires facing all the time.

Argilla.8340:

I call’d it anet, buffing some classes by a ton and destroying a few did nothing but kill your game further, so good job at making bad people somehow decent (ele, mes etc)

This game is even emptier now than it used to be pre patch, no idea how you guys manage to kitten up everything

Great job calling it with a very generic and subjective analysis. I don’t know how you did it!

manveruppd.7601:

It’s not actually a good stunbreak in my opinion, because the condition transfer requires facing.
…
I have to give them credit for changing it to transfer blind instead of missing because of it, but they also need to make it not require facing if it’s to be good.

Good news! The condi transfer doesn’t require facing.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amplified_Wrath

Or this could get buffed at the same time Burning gets nerfed, leaving burn Guardian untouched while reducing the truly problematic sources.

What exactly are the truly problematic sources? Are you talking Elementalists?

I don’t have enough experience with Burn Guardians to really know how it feels to fight one, and I’ve always favored condition transfers against every class with my Necro. However, do we really need to race up the potential burn stacking damage for a class to try to squeeze it into viability, just because it only has a single condition to apply? Is that really a good, healthy design choice?

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Thankfully, the Blood Magic rework has helped a lot with the sustain issues the class has had. Still not perfect, but vastly improved from where it was.

It did, a lot more builds came from it – luckily I’d say.

Maybe every profession should get Robert Gee’d so that everyone can finally enjoy playing their professions – it might stop people from their constant complaints

It’s a nice thought, but I don’t know if any other class was as mechanically hamstrung with an entire trait line as Necros were. I could be wrong though.

People hate losing/dying. Don’t take it personally.

xDudisx.5914:

2) necro
Too many ways to corrupt boons from a target. Needs a buff to mobility.

Well this is a new and different one. I guess it IS unfortunate that people just can’t spam all of their boons with impunity all of the time against one class in the game. It would be a shame if might-stacking was ever really challenged.

style.6173:

jportell.2197:

Sagat.3285:

jportell.2197:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Necro’s are no longer free kills so everyone wants us to get nerfed.

Still not on the same level as other professions. But no longer miles behind them.

The same could be said for mesmers lol

Please elaborate.

Mesmer are no longer free kills so now they want them nerfed.

They never were free kills, at least for any mesmer above average. The issue now is that they are the second strongest class behind ele.

What class should be the second strongest class?

Agreed, you shouldn’t have ever felt like you had it all. If you did, then it was an imbalance. Also, you shouldn’t feel like you have to be able to bring it all yourself. That’s what teamplay is for, and certain classes/builds excel at helping allies remove conditions.

Teamplay is like the great white buffalo in this game. No one sees it for so long that they forget it even exists, only in this case, coordination is an integral part of the balance design.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Although from what I gather (haven’t been much active in pvp lately because its boring to me) the condis do maximum damage in the first 2-3 seconds. While giving the caster a sick survival meanwhile.

The game gave certain classes/builds the ability to stack a lot of burns in 2-3 seconds, which then start ticking heavily over the next 2-3 seconds. So in about 5-6 seconds you’ve taken the full damage from the abilities.

Many other classes build up bleeds/poisons/add in some burning over time. It often takes more than 2 – 3 seconds to even get conditions rolling. The whole point of conditions is to be difficult to kill while doing damage over time.

Most of the time, either people just want the game to be super fast-paced where people die easily, or they don’t pay attention to the build-up phase and just see when everything is rolling, then think it all happened passively or something.

Back in the day, I wasn’t a fan of conditions either, so I started looking them up. I did some math, compared to Power abilities, and did a complete 180 on my opinion of conditions after looking at the numbers.